Mastering Small Talk with Rob Rudge (Business English Podcast)

Hello, and welcome to The English Like A Native Podcast, the listening

您好，欢迎来到 The English Like A Native Podcast，这是

resource for intermediate to advanced-level English learners.

为中级到高级英语学习者提供的听力资源。

My name is Anna and today I'm joined by a very special guest - a fellow podcasting,

我叫安娜，今天有一位非常特别的嘉宾加入我的行列——一位播客、

YouTubing, online English teacher.

YouTube 同事、在线英语老师。

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm pleased to introduce Rob from

女士们先生们，我很高兴向大家介绍来自

the Business English Podcast.

商务英语播客的 Rob。

Now he is a business English communication coach and someone that

现在，他是一名商务英语沟通教练，

you should be tuning into if you're hoping to make a good impression

如果您希望

in an English speaking workplace.

在英语工作场所留下好印象，您应该向他求助。

Hello, Rob.

Good morning.

你好，罗布。

早上好。

Hi, Anna.

Hi, Anna.

嗨，安娜。

嗨，安娜。

Thanks for having me on, really appreciate it.

谢谢你邀请我，真的很感激。

You're very welcome.

非常不客气。

How are you today?

你今天怎么样？

Very well, very well.

很好，很好。

What about yourself?

你自己呢？

Yeah, I'm all right.

是的，我没事。

I was just saying before this podcast, I've just finished my coffee

我只是在播客之前说过，我刚刚喝完咖啡

and I'm waiting for it to kick in.

，正在等待它开始。

Are you a morning coffee drinker?

你是早上喝咖啡的人吗？

I am two in already, so, I'm starting to feel the effects,

我已经两岁了，所以，我开始感受到效果，

you know, coming up as they say.

你知道，正如他们所说的那样。

Oh really?

I limit myself to one coffee a day these days.

哦真的吗？

这些天我限制自己每天喝一杯咖啡。

I will have a decaf later in the afternoon because I enjoy the bitterness and I

下午晚些时候我会喝一杯无咖啡因的咖啡，因为我喜欢苦味，并且会

match it with a little bit of sweetness.

搭配一点甜味。

So, I tend to have a little biscotti or a piece of dark chocolate with it.

所以，我倾向于搭配一点脆饼或一块黑巧克力。

Yeah.

是的。

Do you have your coffee with milk or black?

你喝的是加奶咖啡还是黑咖啡？

I have it with milk, but no sugar.

我是加牛奶的，但不加糖。

I was going to say when you said sweetness, I thought are

我本来想说当你说甜味的时候，我以为

you putting sugar in this?

你在里面放糖了？

Demerara or...

No, no.

德梅拉拉或……

不，不。

I usually have coconut milk.

我通常喝椰奶。

What about almonds or soy and any of the others?

杏仁或大豆以及其他任何东西怎么样？

No, so, if I run out of coconut milk, I will use some of the oat milk, if

不，所以，如果我用完了椰奶，我会用一些燕麦奶，如果

we have like a barista oat milk in the house, I'll use some of that, but I

我们家里有咖啡师燕麦奶，我会用一些，但我

like the sweetness of coconut milk, I have a bit of a sweet tooth, you see.

喜欢椰奶的甜味，你看，我有点爱吃甜食。

Uh-huh.

嗯。

So it keeps me on the straight and narrow, having a slightly sweet coffee,

所以它让我保持正直和狭窄，喝一杯微甜的咖啡，

keeps me away from the naughty treats.

让我远离顽皮的零食。

Good.

Just take the edge off.

好的。 只要把边缘去掉就可以了。

Yeah.

是的。

Rob, I want to start with a question.

罗布，我想先问一个问题。

Sure.

A completely random question.

当然。 一个完全随机的问题。

If you had any superpower besides flying and time travel, because

如果你除了飞行和时间旅行之外还有什么超能力，因为

everyone says, "I'd love to fly."

每个人都说，“我很想飞。”

or "I'd love to time travel."

或“我喜欢时间旅行。”

What would your superpower be?"

你的超能力是什么？”

I think, I would like to breathe underwater.

我想，我想在水下呼吸。

That would be something very interesting to me, it'd allow me to get down into

这对我来说非常有趣，它可以让我进入

the sea, go and see some cool things.

大海，去看一些很酷的东西。

I think we know more about the surface of the Moon than we do the bottom

我想我们知道更多对月球表面的了解比我们对海底

of the ocean, so I think that would be quite interesting to go and see.

的了解要多，所以我认为去看看会很有趣。这是

That's very true.

真的。

Have you done any scuba diving or snorkelling?

你做过水肺潜水或浮潜吗？

I've done a little bit, little bit around the Caribbean, and unfortunately in

我做了一点点，一点点加勒比海地区，不幸的是在

some of the quarries in the UK, which isn't the same experience, surprisingly

英国的一些采石场，令人惊讶的是，这不是同样的经历。

. No.

不。

And, fairly cold, I would say, a little bit colder than the Caribbean as well,

而且，相当冷，我想说，也比加勒比海冷一点，

which means you have to dive in a hood.

这意味着你必须戴着头罩潜水。

Was it a dry suit or a wet suit?

是干式潜水服还是湿式潜水服？

I had a wet suit on, just the organisation I was with at the time only had wet suits.

我穿着潜水服，只是我当时所在的组织只有潜水服。

So, that's what we used.

所以，这就是我们使用的。

Yeah.

Cause often in UK waters, because of the cold, they make you dive with a

是的。

因为经常在英国水域，因为寒冷，他们会让你穿着

dry suit, which keeps you dry and warm.

干衣潜水，这样可以保持干燥和温暖。

I've never done any diving in UK waters.

我从来没有在英国水域潜水过。

I've done it in Egypt.

我在埃及做过。

Oh, wow.

哦，哇。

Nice.

And in swimming pools.

好的。 还有游泳池里。

I did my training...

我

training in a UK pool.

在英国的一个泳池里进行了训练。

I think, did I go scuba diving anywhere else?

我想，我还去其他地方潜水过吗？

I feel like I have, but I can't remember.

我感觉好像有过，但记不起来了。

What was it like in Egypt?

埃及的情况如何？

Was it, you know, did you need a wet suit there?

你知道，你需要潜水服吗？

Yes.

是的。

Yes, wet suit and it was lovely.

是的，潜水服，很可爱。

I saw some amazing things.

我看到了一些令人惊奇的事情。

I definitely recommend diving in Egypt.

我绝对推荐在埃及潜水。

They've got some interesting shipwrecks to go and explore and some nice coral, lots

他们有一些有趣的沉船可供探索，还有一些漂亮的珊瑚和许多

of interesting aquatic life to check out.

有趣的水生生物可供观赏。

Nice.

好的。

Yeah.

My partner did some of the more advanced dives.

是的。 我的搭档进行了一些更高级的潜水。

I was quite new to it, but he went diving with some sharks as well.

我对此很陌生，但他也和一些鲨鱼一起潜水。

They took a boat out to the place where they were going to dive and they

他们乘船前往要潜水的地方，并不是

weren't specifically looking for sharks.

专门寻找鲨鱼。

They knew there were sharks potentially in the area.

他们知道该地区可能有鲨鱼。

And the instructor jumped in first to just check out everything was

教练先跳了进去，只是为了检查一下是否一切都

safe for everyone to come in.

安全，每个人都可以进去。

He jumped in and then didn't surface.

他跳了进去，然后就没有浮出水面。

He disappeared for quite a few minutes and everyone was concerned.

他消失了好几分钟，每个人都很担心。

Eventually, he comes back up and says,

最终，他回来说道：

"Sorry, guys.

“抱歉，伙计们。

I literally jumped on top of a shark when I jumped in."

当我跳进去时，我真的跳到了鲨鱼身上。”

So, the best thing to do with sharks is to go down because if you're

所以，对付鲨鱼最好的办法就是下去，因为如果你在

above them, they think you're a seal and they're more likely to attack

它们上面，它们会认为你是海豹，它们更有可能发起攻击

and they attack from underneath.

，而且它们会从下面发起攻击。

So, you go down and you stay still and you keep your eyes on them.

所以，你下去并保持静止，眼睛盯着他们。

And so he jumped onto this shark and then had to stay low in the water until

于是他跳到了这条鲨鱼身上，然后不得不呆在水里，直到

the shark lost interest and disappeared.

鲨鱼失去兴趣并消失。

So, then he could come back up and say,

所以，然后他可以回来说：

"Okay, you can come in now."

“好吧，你现在可以进来了。”

That's incredible.

那真是难以置信。

Yeah.

I think if that were me on the boat and he said, I just jumped onto a shark.

是的。

我想如果我在船上，他说，我就会跳到鲨鱼身上。

I'd be like,

"No, I'm going to stay on the boat."

我会说：

“不，我要留在船上。”

"I'm good for today.

Yeah, I'm good for today."

“我今天很好。

是的，我今天很好。”

That'd look great on the CV though, wouldn't it?

不过，这在简历上看起来会很棒，不是吗？

It's like, what do you do for a job?

就像，你做什么工作？

Well, I'm an underwater shark wrestler.

嗯，我是一名水下鲨鱼摔跤手。

You know, that's what I do.

你知道，这就是我所做的。

Yeah.

是的。

So, breathing underwater would be a great skill because when you go

所以，在水下呼吸将是一项很棒的技能，因为当你

underwater with scuba gear, my initial reaction to it was surprise because

带着潜水装备进入水下时，我最初的反应是惊讶，因为

of the noise and all the bubbles.

噪音和所有的气泡。

I feel like if you haven't done any scuba diving, you think that scuba

我觉得如果你没有进行过任何水肺潜水，你会认为水肺

diving will be a very serene, peaceful experience, but then it's like...

潜水将是一次非常宁静、平和的体验，但那就像……

Darth Vader all the way.

一直是达斯·维德。

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, actually being able to just breathe without that gear would be amazing.

是的。

是的。 所以，实际上能够在没有这些装备的情况下呼吸真是太棒了。

I think.

我认为。

Yeah.

And you'd be able to do some incredible adventures.

是的。

你将能够进行一些令人难以置信的冒险。

Yes.

是的。

I was going to ask you, Anna, do you have a superpower?

我想问你，安娜，你有超能力吗？

Apart from being an ama-...

除了是一位阿妈之外……

I'm a mum.

我还是一位妈妈。

I think anyway.

我想无论如何。

Anyone who is able to keep children alive, that's the

能够让孩子活下来的人，这就是

superpower and function as well.

超能力和作用。

If I were to have a superpower, then I think I would love to know, I'm kind of

如果我有超能力，那么我想我很想知道，我在

torn between having an insight into the future, so I could make good decisions,

洞察未来（这样我可以做出正确的决定）

or being able to know what people think.

和了解人们的想法之间左右为难。

Oh.

That, I think that would be a really...

哦。

那，我认为那真的是……

That's dangerous!

那很危险！

You know, just being able to see a little bubble above people's heads to read their

你知道，只要能够看到人们头顶上的一个小气泡就能读懂他们的

thoughts, because I think being able to read people is a really good skill.

想法，因为我认为能够读懂人们是一项非常好的技能。

I think I'm quite good at reading a social situation and reading a room

我认为我很擅长解读社会情境和解读房间

and quite empathetic and understanding; my partner doesn't have the same

，并且很有同理心和理解力；我的伴侣没有和

level of awareness as I do, and we notice it when we go out and I'm like,

我一样的意识水平，当我们出去时我们会注意到这一点，我 会

"Do you realise you said that?

想，“你意识到你这么说了吗？

And you could see that this person was uncomfortable when you said that?

你可以看到当你这么说时这个人很不舒服？

You didn't pick that up."

你没有注意到这一点。”

So, I think being able to actually see what people are thinking and understand,

所以，我认为能够真正看到人们在想什么和理解什么，

it would just take away so many doubts and, you know, sometimes we feel

这只会消除很多疑虑，而且，你知道，有时我们会感到

inhibited because we think the other person is thinking a certain thing.

压抑，因为我们认为对方正在思考某件事。

It's not always the case.

情况并非总是如此。

So, just knowing the truth always would be quite...

所以，只要知道真相总是会很……

That's a really good one.

这真的很好。

Refreshing, I think refreshing.

清爽，我觉得清爽。

Yeah, that's a really good one.

是的，这确实是一件好事。

Have you seen the film, is it What Women Want?

你看过这部电影吗？《女人想要什么》？

with Mel Gibson?

与梅尔吉布森？

And he has sort of this power where he can hear this.

他有一种可以听到这些声音的力量。

Yeah, and it changes things for him, doesn't it?

是的，这改变了他的一切，不是吗？

It really does, it really does.

确实如此，确实如此。

So yeah, very interesting superpower.

是的，非常有趣的超级大国。

So, one superpower to consider might be the ability to make small talk.

因此，值得考虑的一项超能力可能是闲聊的能力。

Yeah.

是的。

Like, so, I think small talk is a surprisingly powerful skill to have.

就像，所以，我认为闲聊是一项令人惊讶的强大技能。

Yeah, it is.

是啊，就是。

And it's interesting because not many people are very good at small talk.

这很有趣，因为没有多少人擅长闲聊。

It doesn't come naturally to many people.

这对很多人来说并不自然。

Yeah.

But luckily it can be learned.

是的。

但幸运的是，它是可以学习的。

So, small talk is actually a pretty big deal and that's what we're

所以，闲聊实际上是一件大事，这就是我们

going to talk about today — how to make small talk in the right way.

今天要讨论的——如何以正确的方式进行闲聊。

So, small talk is like the unsung hero of our daily interactions, isn't it?

所以，闲聊就像我们日常互动中的无名英雄，不是吗？

Yeah, but what is exactly small talk?

是的，但是闲聊到底是什么？

How could we define that?

我们如何定义它？

That's a good question, and I'm glad you asked.

这是个好问题，我很高兴你问这个问题。

Imagine you're in a lift with somebody perhaps it's taking a really long

想象一下，你和某人在电梯里，也许花了很长时间

time, and you barely know them, but you manage to strike up a conversation.

，而你几乎不认识他们，但你设法开始交谈。

You're maybe talking about the weather, or you're talking about

您可能正在谈论天气，或者您正在谈论

the latest episode of The Crown, or something that you're watching on TV.

最新一集的《王冠》，或者您在电视上观看的某些内容。

Well, that's small talk at its finest.

嗯，这就是最好的闲聊。

It might seem trivial.

这可能看起来微不足道。

It might seem like nothing, but it actually plays a really vital role in

它可能看起来没什么，但它实际上在

building connections with other people.

与他人建立联系方面发挥着非常重要的作用。

I like to imagine it as a bridge that helps us to cross over

我喜欢把它想象成一座桥梁，帮助我们

from being complete strangers to becoming friends or colleagues.

从完全陌生的人变成朋友或同事。

Now it's closely related to first impressions and we know that

现在它与第一印象密切相关，我们知道

first impressions really count.

第一印象确实很重要。

You actually have quite a nice saying I heard on one of your podcasts,

罗布 ，我在你的一个播客上听到了

Rob, about first impressions.

关于第一印象的一句非常好的说法。

Yes, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression, and

是的，你没有第二次机会留下第一印象，

it's completely true, I think.

我认为这是完全正确的。

Yeah, so, you only get that one chance, that first impression is lasting, so,

是的，所以，你只有一次机会，第一印象是持久的，所以，

you have to get it right the first time.

你必须第一次就做好。

So, what you say to break the ice really matters.

所以，你所说的话来打破僵局真的很重要。

Small talk lays the groundwork, so to speak.

可以说，闲聊奠定了基础。

It's how we signal to other people that we're friendly and approachable or not.

这是我们向其他人表明我们是否友好和平易近人的方式。

So, we really let people know who we are or at least we give an

因此，我们确实让人们知道我们是谁，或者至少

impression of who we are with those first few words and interactions.

通过最初的几句话和互动给人留下了我们是谁的印象。

So, Rob, when would small talk be useful?

那么，罗布，闲聊什么时候有用呢？

This is a great question.

这是一个很好的问题。

I think, it's one that goes around a lot, especially in sort of learners of English.

我认为，这是一个经常出现的问题，尤其是在英语学习者中。

And I would say, you know, point blank, this is a spectrum of situations all

我想说，你知道，直截了当地说，这是一系列情况，从

the way from coffee shop on one side all the way down to being in the boardroom

一侧的咖啡店一直到在会议室

or interview or like you said, you know just waiting for an elevator or a lift.

或面试，或者就像你说的，你知道只是在等电梯或一部电梯。

So, we can use small talk in professional situations then.

所以，我们可以在专业场合使用闲聊。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

And if you don't use small talk in a professional situation, especially

如果您在专业场合不使用闲聊，尤其

when dealing with countries or cultures that have it in their language, for

是在与使用其语言的国家或文化打交道时，例如

example, the UK, or the other sort of English-speaking nations, if you

英国或其他英语国家，如果您

just launch straight into business, so to speak, things really feel sort

直接进入可以这么说，在生意上，事情确实让人感觉有点

of uncomfortable, disjointed or a lot of pressure to respond and get down

不舒服、脱节，或者需要立即回应并开始做

to business straight away, which, you know, doesn't quite feel right.

正事，这感觉很大，你知道，这感觉不太对劲。

I think for us Brits, at least.

我认为至少对我们英国人来说是这样。

What about yourself?

你自己呢？

As Brits, we're very much indirect, aren't we?

作为英国人，我们非常间接，不是吗？

We nothing, anything direct is considered a little rude or too abrupt.

我们什么都没有，任何直接的事情都被认为有点粗鲁或太唐突。

And so everything has to be done in a soft and gentle way.

因此，一切都必须以柔和的方式进行。

I think we're deemed as a nation of being like head down, very

我认为我们被认为是一个低着头、非常

cold, don't give eye contact, but actually we all need a cuddle.

冷漠、不进行眼神交流的国家，但实际上我们都需要一个拥抱。

We all need a hug.

我们都需要一个拥抱。

That's it.

就是这样。

Before we have any kind of interaction.

在我们进行任何形式的互动之前。

We need to know we're safe.

我们需要知道我们是安全的。

We need to know it's a relaxed environment.

我们需要知道这是一个轻松的环境。

And so, that small talk, even in a professional environment, even if

所以，即使是在专业环境中，即使

it's something that's going to be, you know, a tough negotiation and

这将是一场艰难的谈判，你

you walk into the boardroom knowing that you're probably going to have

走进董事会时也知道你可能会

disagreements with the people that you're about to negotiate with.

与你所关心的人产生分歧。我们即将与之谈判。

There's still that element of

仍然有这样的元素

"Hi, good morning.

：“嗨，早上好。

How was your journey in today?

今天的旅程怎么样？

Yeah.

The trains are a nightmare, aren't they?"

是的。 火车是一场噩梦，不是吗？”

You know, that kind of chit-chat back and forth saying,

你知道，那种来来回回的闲聊是在说：

"We're both human.

“我们都是人类。

You're safe in this environment.

在这个环境中你是安全的。

We can at least be civil with one another."

我们至少可以互相礼貌地对待。”

Yeah, no, absolutely agreed.

是的，不，绝对同意。

Yeah, it's about this sort of relationship building, this sort of pressing the

是的，这是关于建立这种关系，就像

flesh, as they say, shaking hands and developing that relationship, especially

他们所说的那样，握手并发展这种关系，尤其是

if you're looking for new business, new opportunities, interviews, things like

如果你正在寻找新的业务，新的机会，面试，类似的事情

that, you know, getting to know the other person before launching in, it is

，你知道，在开始之前了解对方，

something that I think Brits do very well.

我认为英国人做得很好。

But it's always the culture that is used to small talk, when it doesn't

但文化总是习惯于闲聊，当闲聊不

happen, it feels very uncomfortable.

发生时，感觉很不舒服。

I was out in Eastern Europe, and doing some English work with some professionals

我在东欧，和一些专业人士一起做一些英语工作

and I've been on for hours, you know, how it is teaching and you're pretty

，我已经工作了几个小时，你知道，它是如何教学的，你已经筋疲力尽了

exhausted, you know, it's over, it's done.

，你知道，结束了，结束了。

You're sort of closing down the laptop and this woman walked up

你正在关闭笔记本电脑，

to me at the end and she said,

最后这位女士走到我面前，她说：

"Rob, you look really tired."

“罗布，你看起来真的很累。”

And I thought,

我想，

"Oh, well, yes, I guess I am exhausted."

“哦，好吧，是的，我想我已经筋疲力尽了。”

But it was very direct, you know, like you said earlier on, about the

但这是非常直接的，你知道，就像你之前所说的那样，

Brits needing something a little bit smoother, a little bit more gentle.

英国人需要一些更顺畅、更温和的东西。

And if it is too direct and it does feel slightly uncomfortable, but I guess this

如果太直接的话，确实会感觉有点不舒服，但我想这

was an element of small talk, so to speak.

可以说是闲聊的一个元素。

I think, when dealing with people from different places, different cultures, I

我认为，在与来自不同地方、不同文化的人打交道时，我

do think that personally, we have to all just have a moment of thinking, we're all

确实认为就我个人而言，我们都必须思考一下，我们都是

different, so, don't take everything so personally, like you have to allow them a

不同的，所以，不要像你一样把一切都看成是针对个人的允许他们有一点

little bit of wiggle room to be different.

回旋的余地，让他们与众不同。

So, I think I've learned a lot about myself and others by being in

因此，我认为通过在这个特定的领域与来自不同国家的人合作，我对自己和他人有了很多了解

this particular niche, working with people from different countries.

。

I used to take offence at things so quickly, depending on how I

我曾经很快就会对一些事情感到生气，这取决于别人如何

was approached or things that were said, you know, the unsolicited

接近我或所说的话，你知道，主动

marriage proposals, things like that.

求婚，诸如此类的事情。

Nice.

好的。

Cool.

凉爽的。

I used to get really upset about it.

我曾经为此感到非常沮丧。

And irate about the things people would say and how they would say them and...

对人们会说的话以及他们如何说这些话感到愤怒……

and now I realise, oh, actually we just come from different places; things are

现在我意识到，哦，实际上我们只是来自不同的地方；我们只是来自不同的地方。事情的

done differently and they maybe don't understand my culture so, we can be

处理方式不同，他们可能不理解我的文化，所以我们可以

open and talk about this and hopefully they'll understand and it'll be fine.

开诚布公地讨论这个问题，希望他们能理解，一切都会好起来的。

Yeah.

是的。

So, I think everyone has to have that awareness.

所以，我认为每个人都必须有这样的意识。

So, have you ever experienced a point where small talk wasn't

那么，您是否曾经遇到过闲聊没有

done in the most optimal way?

以最佳方式进行的情况？

A long time ago when I was kind of new to the YouTubing space I used to go to lots

很久以前，当我还是 YouTube 领域的新手时，我经常去

of events at the YouTube headquarters, which is in King's Cross in London.

YouTube 总部（位于伦敦国王十字车站）参加很多活动。

And I met up with a friend before one of these events, having coffee

在其中一次活动之前，我遇到了一位朋友，

in a coffee shop and they had a couple of other friends joining

在一家咖啡店喝咖啡，他们还有其他几个朋友加入

them, people I didn't know.

他们，都是我不认识的人。

And at one point I'm kind of sat left alone with one of these

有一次，我和我朋友的一位朋友单独坐在一起

friends of my friend, and we hadn't spoken before that point.

，在那之前我们没有说过话。

And, he turns to me and he says,

然后，他转向我说：

"Oh, so, Anna, is it?"

“哦，安娜，是吗？”

I said,

"Yeah, yeah, Anna."

He said,

我说： “是啊，是啊，安娜。”

他说：

"What are you doing in London then?"

“那你在伦敦做什么？”

And I said,

我说：

"Oh, I'm going to an event at the YouTube headquarters.

“哦，我要去 YouTube 总部参加一个活动。

It's not far from here.

离这里不远。

I'll be heading off in about 20 minutes."

大约 20 分钟后我就会出发。”

And his reaction was,

他的反应是，

"Oh no, you've got to spend the day with a bunch of YouTubers, that sucks, poor you."

“哦，不，你必须和一群 YouTube 用户一起度过这一天，这很糟糕，可怜的你。”

And I was obviously a bit shocked because he had gone straight into sharing his

我显然有点震惊，因为他直接分享了他

personal negative opinion of YouTubers without ascertaining or working out

个人对 YouTuber 的负面看法，而没有确定或弄清楚

who I was or whether I was a YouTuber or not, he just assumed I wasn't.

我是谁，或者我是否是 YouTuber，他只是假设我不是。

Okay.

And so rather than putting him straight instantly I was a bit taken aback

好的。

因此，我并没有立即纠正他，而是有点吃惊

by it and I was instantly offended.

，并且立即感到被冒犯了。

So, I just let him dig the hole the little deeper and I said,

所以，我就让他把坑挖得更深一点，然后我说：

"Oh, you don't like YouTubers then."

“哦，那你就不喜欢 YouTuber了。”

And he carried on, no, he didn't catch on at all.

他继续说下去，不，他根本没有明白。

"No, no, I don't like YouTubers.

“不，不，我不喜欢 YouTuber。

They're all so annoying.

他们都很烦人。

They're all so full of themselves."

他们都太自以为是了。”

And just keeps digging and digging and digging.

并且不断地挖掘、挖掘、挖掘。

And then eventually I said,

最后我说：

"Well, you don't like me then.

“好吧，那你就不喜欢我了。

I'm a YouTuber."

我是 YouTuber。”

And then he was obviously very apologetic and a bit taken aback by

然后他显然非常抱歉，并且对

his own, faux pas, should we say.

自己的失礼感到有点惊讶，我们应该说。

Yeah.

Yeah.

是的。

是的。

Giving him enough rope to hang himself with, this sort of thing.

给他足够的绳子来上吊，诸如此类的事情。

It was a little mean, you know, the mistake that he made was to launch

你知道，这有点卑鄙，他犯的错误是在

into sharing his negative opinions of a whole group of people without

不 知道自己首先在和谁说话的情况下，

knowing who he was talking to first.

开始分享他对一群人的负面看法

And I've done this myself.

。 我自己也做过这件事。

I've very quickly shared my opinions without knowing who I am talking to.

我很快就分享了我的观点，但不知道我在和谁说话。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

And in doing so, offended people because they hold a very different opinion to me.

这样做冒犯了人们，因为他们与我持有截然不同的观点。

And so I think it's always like one of the rules for small talk should be to

所以我认为闲聊的规则之一应该是把

keep those negative opinions to yourself.

那些负面意见留给自己。

Like you said about the balancing of, being understanding of everybody's

就像你所说的关于平衡，了解每个人的

culture, you know, especially when you're playing at the international

文化，你知道，尤其是当你在国际

level, which is normally why people speak English is that they're in that

层面上比赛时，这通常是人们说英语的原因，因为他们在

international arena, is really hedging your conversation in a way that is, you

国际舞台上，这真的是对冲你的谈话以一种

know, palatable that is acceptable for everybody instead of really sticking

大家都能接受的方式，而不是把

your flag in the ground over to one side.

你的旗帜插在地上。

And as you said about the faux pas, I mean, the two mega poor choices to make

正如你所说的失礼，我的意思是，

when making small talk, I would say would be, politics or/and religion.

闲聊时要做出的两个非常糟糕的选择，我想说的是，政治或/和宗教。

Yeah.

是的。

What do you think?

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

你怎么认为？

是的，你说得完全正确。

If somebody makes a really bold statement in the first few lines of meeting me about

如果有人在与我会面的前几行中就

their political beliefs or, you know, making a judgement from a political point

他们的政治信仰发表了非常大胆的声明，或者你知道，从政治角度做出判断

of view, then what happens is if it's at odds with what I believe, I instantly

，那么如果它与我的信仰不一致，我会立即

make a judgement, you know, we all do, even if we try not to be judgemental.

做出决定你知道，我们都会做出判断，即使我们尽量不做出判断。

I instantly make a judgement about what that person must be like, what their

我立即做出判断，那个人一定是什么样子，他们的

general beliefs are and everything that's related to that and that might

一般信仰是什么，以及与之相关的一切，这可能

make me decide instantly, I'm not going to be friends or I can't be close

会让我立即决定，我不会成为朋友，或者我不能接近

to, I don't align with this person and so, it can sour the relationship

，我不与这个人保持一致，因此，在关系

before it's even had a chance to blossom, before we even had a chance to

有机会开花之前，在我们甚至有机会探索

explore, you know, whether there's any other things that we have in common.

我们是否还有其他共同点之前，它可能会恶化我们的关系。

So, politics also can lead to, like an argument, a negative interaction.

因此，政治也可能像争论一样导致负面互动。

I'm very much an avoider of conflict.

我非常避免冲突。

I will just nod my head and go,

我只会点点头，然后说：

"Hmm okay, lovely."

And walk away.

“嗯，好吧，可爱的。”

然后走开。

But I think I'm in the minority.

但我认为我属于少数。

I think many people would happily say I don't agree or, you know,

我想很多人会很高兴地说我不同意，或者，你知道，

stand up for what they believe and argue with that person.

坚持他们的信念并与那个人争论。

So, it's better to just avoid talking about politics and the same with

所以，最好避免谈论政治，也避免谈论

religion because it often leads to...

宗教，因为它常常会导致……

Religion is a very personal thing and people have very strong views,

宗教是一件非常个人的事情，人们对宗教有非常强烈的观点和

beliefs about religion and it's just better to just leave it aside until

信仰，最好把它放在一边，直到出现问题为止

a point later in your relationship.

。稍后再指出你们的关系。

Yeah, definitely, a hundred percent agreed.

是的，当然，百分百同意。

It's really worth taking on board that no matter how well you think you

确实值得考虑的是，无论您认为自己

know this person or the individuals with which you're conversing, that

对这个人或正在与您交谈的人有多了解，

you probably don't want to broach that subject unless you are...

您可能都不想提出这个话题，除非您……

like you said, unless you know them really well or have a personal

就像您所说的那样，除非您非常了解他们或

relationship with this individual.

与此人有私人关系。

I was training some non-native professionals working in London

我正在培训一些在伦敦工作的非本地专业人士，

about small talk and networking while they were working in the big city.

让他们在大城市工作时进行闲聊和社交。

And it was all about, you know, avoid this, don't say that,

这就是，你知道，避免这个，不要说那个，

try using this as an idea.

尝试用这个作为一个想法。

And on the coffee break one of them came up to me and said,

茶歇时，其中一位走过来对我说：

"Great presentation so far, Rob.

“到目前为止，你的演讲非常精彩，罗布，

Brilliant.

太棒了。

I'd love to know your ideas about Brexit."

我很想知道你对英国脱欧的想法。”

And I said,

我说，

"You know, you've just heard me say, you know, this probably isn't a good

“你知道，你刚刚听到我说，你知道，这可能不是一个很好的

icebreaker or an opener, you know, consider using something else."

破冰行动或开场白，你知道，考虑使用其他东西。”

It is a trained skill, like we've mentioned earlier about small talk

这是一项训练有素的技能，就像我们之前提到的闲聊

being a trained or learned skill.

是一项经过训练或学习的技能一样。

Yeah.

I think when you do ask questions like,

是的。

我认为当你问

"What do you think about Brexit then?"

“那么你对英国脱欧有何看法？”之类的问题时。

You're basically just laying down a landmine for the other person because if

你基本上只是在为对方埋下地雷，因为如果

I ask you that, and I don't know you at all, and you don't know me, and I ask,

我问你这个问题，而我根本不认识你，你也不认识我，我就会问：

"What are your thoughts on this?"

“你对此有何看法？ ”

You then have to think,

然后你必须思考，

"Well, what are your thoughts?"

“嗯，你有什么想法？”

Am I about to say something that's completely at odds with you?

我会说一些与你完全不一致的话吗？

Are we about to have an argument?

我们要吵架吗？

Or are you going to dislike me if I say the wrong thing?

或者如果我说错话你会讨厌我吗？

So, it's just not a very kind thing to do.

所以，这不是一件很友善的事情。

I think, it's better to just leave those questions to one side.

我认为，最好把这些问题放在一边。

And then the other thing, particularly in the UK is talking about money.

然后另一件事，特别是在英国，就是谈论金钱。

Yeah, I agree.

I don't know if it's different in other countries, but asking someone

是的，我同意。

我不知道其他国家是否有所不同，但可以询问某人，

like how much they earn or how much their house costs or, you know, how

比如他们的收入是多少，或者他们的房子要花多少钱，或者，你知道，

much anything costs, if it's something that was obviously a big purchase.

任何东西的成本是多少，如果这显然是一笔大额购买的话。

I think it's just not the done thing in this country, is it?

我认为这在这个国家不是已经完成的事情，是吗？

It makes people uncomfortable.

让人不舒服。

That's right.

这是正确的。

Real sticky situation and you get embroiled into disclosing some things that

真正棘手的情况是，你卷入披露一些

are actually quite personal and if you give a third party something, they have

实际上非常个人的事情，如果你给第三方一些东西，他们就会拥有

that then and it's no longer personal and then where do you put those barriers in

这些东西，并且它不再是个人的，然后你在哪里设置这些障碍

place to, to safeguard against, you know, some other sensitive topics, for example.

，以防止，你知道，例如其他一些敏感话题。

So yeah, it's a really interesting one.

是的，这真的很有趣。

Which is why when you're in a job interview, and this, this question

这就是为什么当你参加工作面试时，这个问题

often does come up, doesn't it?

经常会出现，不是吗？

What are your salary expectations for this role?

您对这个职位的薪资期望是多少？

It's an awful question.

这是一个可怕的问题。

And you might have had it as well as a self-employed kind of entrepreneur

当第三方来找你合作或 赞助 时，

when third parties approach you to come and do a collaboration or

你可能和个体经营者一样拥有这种能力

a sponsorship, they'd say to you, we're interested in working with you.

，他们会对你说，我们有兴趣与你合作。

Oh, great, okay.

噢，太好了，好吧。

Give me some details about the collaboration and I'll give you details.

请向我提供一些有关合作的详细信息，我将为您提供详细信息。

And then they'll say to you even though they approached you.

然后即使他们接近你，他们也会对你说。

Yeah.

"What are your expectations for a fee?

是的。

“你对费用的期望是多少？

Or "what would you expect as a fee for this?"

或者“你对此的期望费用是多少？”

And you're like,

你会说，

"Well what's your, what's your budget?"

“那么你的预算是多少？”

I'm not gonna give you a figure because I might be lowballing myself.

我不会给你一个数字，因为我可能会低估自己。

I might undercut my value if you are paying other people more money.

如果你付给别人更多的钱，我可能会削弱我的价值。

A hundred percent.

百分之一百。

Yeah.

是的。

Like you said, that you're a bit of a minefield.

就像你说的，你有点雷区。

You know, if you're talking about money, what do you say?

你知道，如果你在谈论钱，什么是你说什么？

What can't you say?

你不能说什么？

Lowballing yourself, especially for the self employed, the entrepreneurs

低估自己，特别是对于自营职业者，

out there as well, you know, money.

还有那里的企业家，你知道，金钱。

So, definitely don't ask someone in a, like if you're in a

所以，绝对不要问某人，就像如果你在一个

networking event or a conference,

社交活动或会议，

"Oh, that's a great job.

“哦，那是一份很棒的工作。

You're doing a great job for a great company.

你为一家伟大的公司做得很好。

How much do you earn?"

你赚多少钱？”

Like, that's a terrible question.

就像，这是一个可怕的问题。

Yeah, that's right.

是的，没错。是的。

Yeah.

你

How much do you earn?

How much did you make last year?

赚了多少钱？

你去年赚了多少钱？

Yeah, it's pretty forward I would say.

是的，我会说这是相当超前的。

And you know the other one that, you know, really sort of causes awkward silences

你知道另一个你知道，这确实会导致尴尬的沉默

and awkward moments could be humour.

，而尴尬的时刻可能是幽默。

Just because something is funny in your culture, it may not translate

仅仅因为某些东西在你的文化中很有趣

that well, in a small talk situation.

，在闲聊的情况下，它可能不会很好地翻译。

Absolutely.

当然。

I remember I was doing some networking in Europe and, one of the guys that

我记得我当时正在做一些社交活动欧洲，我们训练的其中一个家伙

we were training, immediately opened with this joke about ball bearings,

，立即以一个关于滚珠轴承的笑话开场，

these little steel ball bearings and it was only about 30 seconds long, but

这些小钢珠轴承，只有大约30秒长，但

he could not get the punch line out.

他无法说出笑点。

He was crying with laughter and I had no idea it didn't translate at all.

他笑得哭了我根本不知道它根本没有翻译。

And he's reduced to tears trying to tell me this joke and

他试图告诉我这个笑话时流下了眼泪，

it was very awkward actually.

实际上非常尴尬。

So...

所以...

yeah, humour.

Oh my goodness.

是的，幽默。

哦，我的天哪。

My goodness.

我的天哪。

Do you have an experience of this?

I can't think of a specific occasion, but there have definitely been times

你有一个

我想不起具体的经历，但肯定有过这样的情况： 我

when people I don't know very well in a social setting have made a

不太熟悉的人在社交场合开过一个

joke that's perhaps been a little bit edgy, a bit controversial.

玩笑，这个玩笑可能有点前卫，有点争议。

And in this country, we make fun of people and we make fun of ourselves and

在这个国家，我们取笑别人，也取笑自己，

you know, a lot of the comedians that I do find funny, like Ricky Gervais.

你知道，很多喜剧演员我都觉得很有趣，比如瑞奇·热维斯。

Ricky Gervais makes some appalling jokes.

瑞奇·热维斯开了一些令人震惊的笑话。

If you saw them written down, he makes jokes about things that just

如果你看到它们被写下来，他就会拿那些只是

shouldn't ever be joked about, but he does it in a way that's funny and you

不应该被开玩笑，但他以一种有趣的方式做到这一点，你

know what you're getting with him.

知道你会从他身上得到什么。

You turn up to one of his stand up gigs and you know that he's going

你去参加他的一场单口喜剧表演，你知道他会变

to be edgy and he's going to say things that are offensive, but funny.

得很急躁，他会说一些令人反感但又有趣的话。

So, if you don't know someone and they repeat a joke like that, whether it's,

所以，如果你不认识某人，而他们重复了这样的笑话，无论是

you know, about animal cruelty or a specific group of people, then it's

关于虐待动物还是某个特定人群，那么你很难

very hard to know from a stranger if they are just being funny or if they

从陌生人那里知道他们是否只是在开玩笑，或者是否他们

actually hold sexist or racist views based on the joke that they made.

实际上根据自己开的玩笑持有性别歧视或种族主义观点。

So, it's a dangerous road to go down making jokes and often British

所以，开玩笑是一条危险的道路，而且

humour is very different, I think, to other cultures, you know, our dry

我认为，英国式的幽默与其他文化非常不同，你知道，我们的冷

humour, our sarcasm, and so I think it wouldn't translate very well generally.

幽默，我们的讽刺，所以我认为它通常不会很好地翻译。

So, it's best to just try not to be funny.

所以，最好尽量不要搞笑。

Just be nice.

只要友善一点。

Yeah.

是的。

Try not to be funny.

尽量不要搞笑。

Just nice.

刚好。

Yeah.

That's great advice.

是的。

这是很好的建议。

I think.

我认为。

Yeah.

So, humour strike that one off the list as well.

是的。 因此，幽默也将这一点从清单中剔除。

Yeah.

Yeah.

是的。

是的。

And I think the last one to mention about things to avoid is personal questions.

我认为最后要提到的要避免的事情是个人问题。

Yeah.

是的。

I often get the, "Are you married?"

经常有人问我：“你结婚了吗？”

question.

问题。

I don't know.

我不知道。

Do you get this?

你明白吗？

Occasionally, yes.

偶尔，是的。

It's like,

"Are you married?"

就像

“你结婚了吗？”

And you're thinking, well, not sure how this really feeds

你在想，好吧，不确定这如何真正融入

into the overall conversation.

到整个对话中。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

Especially, so I mostly get it in the sphere that I work in as a teacher.

是的。

特别是，所以我主要是在我作为一名教师的工作领域中得到的。

And I'm taken aback by it.

我对此感到惊讶。

You know, people will approach me and happy to be open and talk to

你知道，人们会接近我，并乐于开诚布公地与

them and offer them advice, even though it's come from nowhere.

他们交谈并向他们提供建议，即使这些建议是无中生有的。

"Hi, Anna.

“嗨，安娜。

Can I ask you a question?"

我可以问你一个问题吗？”

"Yeah, of course."

And then we have a little back and forth and then they say,

“嗯，当然咯。”

然后我们来回聊了一会儿，然后他们说：

"Are you married?"

And you're like,

“你结婚了吗？”

你会想，

"What has this got to do with anything, you know, that you need to know?"

“这和你需要知道的事情有什么关系？”

So, I think asking personal questions or sometimes people

所以，我想问一些个人问题，或者有时人们

comment or ask me about my age.

会评论或问我的年龄。

I get that often or my weight.

我经常得到这个或我的体重。

"How much do you weigh?"

“你有多重？”

I think things like that, you just don't know.

我认为类似的事情，你只是不知道。

What a strange question!

多么奇怪的问题啊！

Yeah.

You don't know what people feel insecure about.

是的。

你不知道人们对什么感到不安全。

And so I may have had an eating disorder.

所以我可能患有饮食失调症。

I don't, I haven't, I've always had a very healthy, too healthy

我不，我没有，我 与食物的关系

a relationship with food.

一直非常健康

But I may have had an eating disorder in the past.

。 但我过去可能患有饮食失调症。

Maybe I was anorexic at one point and I struggled to eat.

也许我曾经患有厌食症，吃东西很困难。

I didn't like food.

我不喜欢食物。

And now I've managed to get to a healthy weight and beat my anorexia.

现在我已经成功达到健康的体重并克服了厌食症。

And then if you mention anything about my weight or anything about the way my

然后，如果你提到任何关于我的体重或任何关于我的

body looks, you could trigger something really bad in me that makes me feel very

身体外观的事情，你可能会触发我内心非常糟糕的事情，让我感到非常不自在

self conscious and could set something off, but it certainly wouldn't set

，并可能引发一些事情，但这肯定不会建立

up our relationship in a good way.

我们的关系一个好方法。

There was a time when I was having, my hair prepared for a wig, for a show.

曾经有一段时间，我的头发准备戴假发，准备表演。

Right.

And I had a different lady doing my hair this one day, so my normal kind

正确的。

有一天，我请了一位不同的女士做头发，所以我的普通

of makeup artist was off, and this lady, they're called wiggies, people

化妆师休息了，这位女士，他们被称为“假发”，是

who come in and prepare you for a wig.

进来为你准备假发的人。

Wiggies.

Wiggies.

Right.

So, this wiggie came in, and I'd never met her before, and

维吉斯。 维吉斯。

正确的。 于是，这个假发进来了，我以前从未见过她，而且

she, had a speech impediment.

她有语言障碍。

She had a very strong lisp.

她口齿不清。

Now I am an expert with voice, and I've fixed a lot of speech impediments in the

现在我是一位语音专家， 过去我已经为口吃和口齿不清的人

past with people from stutters and lisps.

解决了很多言语障碍 。

And as soon as I heard her, I was instantly interested because I was like,

我一听到她的声音，立刻就感兴趣了，因为我想，

"Oh, I can help you."

“哦，我可以帮助你。”

And I instantly assumed that she had a problem with her lisp

我立即认为她的口齿不清有问题

and she would want to fix it.

，她想解决它。

That was my assumption.

这是我的假设。

And so, rather than just keeping it to myself, one of the first

因此， 我对她说的 第一句话不是只告诉自己

things I said to her was,

，

"Ah, that's interesting.

“啊，这很有趣。

You have a lisp."

你口齿不清。”

She was evidently very, very upset about the fact that I pointed it out.

显然，她对我指出的事实感到非常非常不安。

And I read the situation straight away and thought, oh,

我立即了解了情况并想，哦，

I shouldn't have said anything.

我不应该说什么。

And then there was just this really awkward, like 30 minutes of her doing

然后真的很尴尬，就像她花了 30 分钟给

my hair, pulling a little harder than usual, you know, while I try

我做头发，比平时用力拉扯，你知道，而我则试图

to backpedal and save the situation.

后退并挽救局面。

Brilliant.

杰出的。

Brilliant.

杰出的。

Awkward.

尴尬的。

You didn't sit there in silence then?

你当时没有坐在那里一言不发吗？

No, I carried on trying to salvage the, you know, the burning building.

不，我继续努力抢救那座正在燃烧的建筑物。

Right.

正确的。

Talking about things, complimenting her on everything.

谈论事情，称赞她的一切。

It was a very innocent question.

这是一个非常无辜的问题。

What I wanted to do was offer help, but I just assumed that she wanted it.

我想做的是提供帮助，但我只是假设她想要帮助。

And that was a bad assumption to make.

这是一个糟糕的假设。

So, I think the rule is don't mention, or ask personal questions

所以，我认为规则是不要提及或询问个人问题

and don't mention anything personal.

，也不要提及任何个人的事情。

So, those are the things that we should avoid.

所以，这些都是我们应该避免的事情。

So, just to recap those, we had politics, religion, we talked about money, about not

所以，简单回顾一下，我们讨论了政治、宗教，我们讨论了金钱，讨论了不要

trying to be funny because humour doesn't always translate, and being too personal.

试图搞笑，因为幽默并不总是能翻译出来，而且过于个人化。

So, those are the things that you should avoid.

所以，这些是你应该避免的事情。

But what things could we talk about with a stranger when we're

但是，当我们与陌生人

striking up a conversation?

交谈时，我们可以谈论哪些事情呢？

What's the safe zone?

什么是安全区？

Well, that is a great question.

嗯，这是一个很好的问题。

Because when you're in that situation, you need to talk about something and I

因为当你处于那种情况时，你需要谈论一些事情，我

would always recommend, and it's something that I do, I just use shared experience.

总是会推荐，这就是我所做的事情，我只是使用共享的经验。

Is there anything that is taking place right now that we're both sharing

目前正在发生的事情有没有我们双方都可以分享

and both have an experience of?

并且都经历过的事情？

Temperature of the room, how hot the coffee is, what was the last

房间的温度，咖啡有多热，最后一位

speaker like, what's the venue like?

演讲者怎么样，场地怎么样？

You know, any of that, something that we both can have some sort of

你知道，任何一个我们都可以有某种

opinion about, and it's fairly neutral and sits sort of between us both.

看法的事情，而且它是相当中立的，介于我们俩之间。

Yeah.

What do you think about that?

是的。

你对此有何看法？

Absolutely.

绝对地。

Do you remember what the first thing I said to you was?

你还记得我对你说的第一句话是什么吗？

When I first reached out to you,

当我第一次联系你时，

Um.

嗯。

It was a long time ago, now.

那是很久以前的事了，现在。

Well, no, honestly.

嗯，不，老实说。

So, I think with you, I really liked your camera work.

所以，我认为和你一起，我真的很喜欢你的摄影作品。

So, I've been watching you on Instagram for a while.

我在 Instagram 上关注你已经有一段时间了。

Not like a stalker.

不像跟踪狂。

Right.

Like a researcher.

正确的。

就像一个研究员。

Researcher, yeah.

I'd been watching you and your filming style, your shorts, the style of your

研究员，是的。

我一直在观察你和你的拍摄风格，你的短裤，你

shorts had changed and it looked like you'd upgraded your camera equipment.

短裤的风格已经改变了，看起来你升级了你的摄影设备。

And I just really liked it.

我真的很喜欢它。

So, the first thing I said to you, even though I had no idea who you were or how

所以，我对你说的第一件事是，尽管我不知道你是谁，也不知道

you would receive an unsolicited message, and the first thing I said to you was,

你会如何收到一条不请自来的消息，但我对你说的第一件事是，

"Hey, I love the new style of your shorts.

“嘿，我喜欢你的新款式短裤。

Have you got a new camera?

你有新相机吗？

It looks great."

看起来很棒。”

And that instantly sparked quite a warm interaction between us because I started

这立即引发了我们之间相当热烈的互动，因为我

with a compliment talking about something that we have a shared interest in,

以赞美开始谈论我们共同感兴趣的事情，

which is filming and creating content.

即拍摄和创作内容。

Yeah, I mean that, I remember now, yes, that was it.

是的，我的意思是，我现在想起来了，是的，就是这样。

The interaction where you pay somebody a compliment, I think really opens

我认为，你向某人表示赞美的互动确实打开了

many, many doors, having a warm response or at least a warm interaction

很多很多门，热情的回应或至少热情的互动

really encourages the other party to step forward and open up as well.

确实会鼓励对方向前迈出一步，敞开心扉。

Yeah.

So, starting with a compliment, but is there any like limit to that, is

是的。

所以，从赞美开始，但是有没有类似的限制，是否有

there a point where paying someone a compliment can be taken in the

一点，向某人表示赞美可能会被错误地

wrong way as an opening interaction.

视为一种开放的互动。

Yeah, I think as we've been discussing already, referring back to the current

是的，我想正如我们已经讨论过的那样，回顾一下当前

or the previous list of things like being too personal, like, you know,

或之前的一系列事情，比如过于个人化，比如，你知道，

what somebody really looks like or their weight, their age, you know, how tired

某人真正的样子或他们的体重，他们的年龄，你知道，有多累

they are, perhaps, you know, being too personal, obviously that I wouldn't

你知道，它们也许太个人化了，显然我不会

push beyond that, but something that's fairly superficial on the surface,

超越这一点，但正如你所说，关于摄影工作，表面上是相当肤浅的

about camera work, as you said.

。

Well, like if someone likes your briefcase or your bag,

好吧，就像有人喜欢你的公文包或包一样，

"I love, I love that bag where did you get that from?

“我喜欢，我喜欢那个包，你从哪里得到的？

Do you find that works well for you?

你觉得这对你有用吗？

Can you get your laptop in there?"

你能把笔记本电脑放进去吗？”

Something that's a little bit more external.

一些更外在的东西。

So, I've had it where people have come to me and I think maybe as a woman, I feel

所以，我经历过人们来找我，我想也许作为一个女人，我觉得

a bit more sensitive to these things, but, if a guy that I don't know, maybe

对这些事情更敏感一点，但是，如果一个我不认识的人，也许是

at a conference comes up to me and says,

在一次会议上，走过来对我说，

"That colour really suits you, you look really cute."

“那个颜色真的很适合你，你看起来真的很可爱。”

Or sometimes people use the word 'sexy' or something like that.

或者有时人们会使用“性感”或类似的词。

Yeah.

And as soon as I hear the word cute or sexy, I switch off and say,

是的。

一旦我听到可爱或性感这个词，我就会停下来说：

"This is a predator.

“这是一个掠夺者。

Don't talk to that person."

不要和那个人说话。”

Yeah.

Red flag.

是的。

红旗。

What they might be doing is just trying to pay me a compliment of trying to

他们可能所做的只是试图向我表示恭维，试图找到

find a way to strike up a conversation.

一种方式来展开对话。

And that's the only thing they can think of to say is that

他们唯一能想到的就是

"You look great.

“你看起来棒极了。

That looks great on you."

But they've used the wrong words like 'sexy' or 'cute' or 'gorgeous',

你穿起来真好看。”

但他们用了错误的词，比如“性感”、“可爱”、“华丽”，

anything like that about me.

诸如此类的词。

Don't use it because I think you're being predatory.

不要使用它，因为我认为你是掠夺性的。

So, it's better to compliment, if you're going to open that way, compliment

所以，如果你想以这种方式开口，最好是赞美，赞美

something that's outside of that person.

那个人之外的东西。

So, compliment their shoes or, you know, like I said, their bag or

所以，赞美他们的鞋子，或者，你知道，就像我说的，他们的包，或者

the work that you've just seen them do, the talk that they just gave.

你刚刚看到他们所做的工作，他们刚刚发表的演讲。

"Oh, that was a really great talk.

“哦，那真是一次很棒的演讲。

You seem like you've done this quite a few times before.

你好像以前已经做过很多次了。

Have you?"

Yeah.

Yeah.

是吗？” 是的。

是的。

Anything like that can get a conversation going without offending the person

任何类似的事情都可以让谈话继续下去，

or being too, you know, creepy.

而不会冒犯对方，或者太令人毛骨悚然。

Yeah, yeah.

是啊是啊。

And once that ball is rolling with that external conversation, you know, about

一旦这个球随着外部对话开始滚动，你知道，关于

your bag and things, you could then use the information that is then volunteered

你的包和东西，你就可以使用随后自愿提供给

to you to keep that conversation going, keep that conversation flowing.

你的信息来保持对话的进行，保持对话的流畅。

Yeah, it's like being a detective, isn't it?

是的，这就像当一名侦探，不是吗？

You're then listening for clues of things that you can latch onto.

然后你会倾听你可以抓住的事物的线索。

Like if someone says,

就像有人说：

"Oh yeah.

“哦，是的。

Oh thanks.

Yeah, I love this pen too.

哦，谢谢。

是的，我也喜欢这支笔。

I got it from an event at Apple."

我从苹果的一次活动中得到了它。”

"Oh, you went to the Apple event?"

“哦，你参加了苹果的活动吗？”

"I think, I was invited to that but I couldn't make it."

“我想，我被邀请参加，但我没能去。”

Little things like that you can grab and see if you can find something

像这样的小事情，你可以抓住，看看是否能找到一些

that you have in common that you can then comment on as well.

共同点，然后你也可以发表评论。

So, what other topics would be a safe thing to talk about?

那么，还有哪些其他话题是可以安全谈论的呢？

Particularly being British, there's one thing that always springs to mind.

尤其是作为英国人，有一件事总是浮现在脑海中。

I've really tried to sit on this the entire podcast episode today.

我今天真的尝试了整个播客节目。

I haven't asked you about the weather and I'm sort of questioning

我还没有问过你关于天气的问题，我 现在 有点怀疑

my birthrights, right about now.

我与生俱来的权利。

But, yes, I think one of the cliches that gets absolutely hammered is the weather.

但是，是的，我认为最受打击的陈词滥调之一就是天气。

What are your thoughts on that?

您对此有何看法？

Well, you know, stereotypes are deemed to be bad because they tar an

嗯，你知道，刻板印象被认为是不好的，因为它们针对的是

entire group of people, but actually stereotypes don't come from nowhere.

整个群体，但实际上刻板印象并非凭空而来。

Stereotypes always have a root in truth and it is true that the

刻板印象总是有事实依据的，

stereotypical British conversation about the weather, it's real.

英国人关于天气的刻板印象确实是真实的。

We do talk about the weather all the time, at least I do.

我们确实一直在谈论天气，至少我是这样。

I don't know about you.

我不了解你。

Yeah.

No, I'm guilty of that as well.

是的。 不，我也有罪。

Talking about the weather, Rob, it has been horrific.

说到天气，罗布，天气太可怕了。

We actually had to postpone this recording because the weather

实际上我们不得不推迟这次录制，因为

this week has been horrendous.

这周的天气很糟糕。

We had a little storm pass through and yesterday, I think it was

我们经历了一场小风暴，昨天，我想是

yesterday or the day before, we actually lost three fence panels.

昨天或前天，我们实际上失去了三块栅栏板。

Wow.

哇。

Okay.

Chasing them down the street.

好的。 沿着街道追赶他们。

Okay.

Well, no, they've just gone into the neighbour's garden.

好的。

嗯，不，他们刚刚去了邻居的花园。

Luckily the neighbour's not blown into ours.

幸运的是，邻居没有被吹到我们的房子里。

The last time we had a big storm, which was around this time last year, we

上次我们遇到大风暴时，大约是在去年的这个时候，我们

actually lost a tree and two fence panels.

实际上失去了一棵树和两块栅栏板。

So, at least the trees didn't fall down this time because

所以，至少这次树没有倒下来，因为

that causes a lot of damage.

那会造成很大的损失。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，绝对是。

Yeah.

I mean, the weather is always, and it's always a predictable answer, especially if

是的。

我的意思是，天气总是如此，而且总是一个可预测的答案，尤其是当

you're conversing with a Brit, you know,

你与英国人交谈时，你知道，

"How's the weather?"

“天气怎么样？”

So, well, guess, you know, raining, windy, overcast, you know, something like this.

所以，好吧，猜猜，你知道，下雨，刮风，阴天，你知道，类似这样的事情。

But it seems that we're always complaining about the weather in one form or another.

但我们似乎总是以这样或那样的形式抱怨天气。

If it's beautiful weather, most of us are going,

如果天气很好，我们大多数人都会说，

"Oh gosh, it's so hot, isn't it?"

“天哪，太热了，不是吗？”

"Oh, I can't get away from it.

“哦，我无法摆脱它。

It's just stifling."

这太令人窒息了。”

We complain if it's too hot and we also complain if it's too

如果天气太热，我们会抱怨；如果天气太冷

cold, wet and windy, which it is most of the time, to be honest.

、潮湿和多风，我们也会抱怨，老实说，大多数时候都是这样。

And I think it's because in this country, although we don't have extreme

我认为这是因为在这个国家，尽管我们没有

weather in the way that, you know, other places around the world experience

像世界其他地方那样经历

like earthquakes and tornadoes.

地震和龙卷风等极端天气。

Though we did have a tornado, didn't we?

虽然我们确实遇到了龙卷风，不是吗？

In the north of England, took off like hundreds of roofs

上周 ，英格兰北部发生了一场龙卷风，数百座屋顶

last week there was a tornado.

被卷走。

Really?

Yeah.

I saw, you know, on Facebook, you know, on Facebook, they have

真的吗？

是的。

我看到，你知道，在 Facebook 上，你知道，在 Facebook 上，他们有

that 'mark yourself safe' thing.

“标记自己安全”的东西。

Right.

正确的。

So if there's a big, if there's a big emergency, then

因此，如果发生重大紧急情况，那么

you can mark yourself safe.

您可以标记自己安全。

So, people on Facebook know that you escaped.

所以，Facebook 上的人知道你逃跑了。

And I saw that one of my friends up in like Manchester had marked

我看到我在曼彻斯特的一位朋友标记

themselves safe from the, like, I can't remember where it was, but mark

自己免受龙卷风袭击，就像，我不记得它在哪里，但标记

themselves safe from the tornado.

自己免受龙卷风袭击。

And I was like,

"This has got to be a joke.

我当时想，

“这一定是个笑话。

This person's obviously been hacked.

这个人显然被黑客攻击了。

We don't have tornadoes in this country."

我们这个国家没有龙卷风。”

And then my mum said,

然后我妈妈说：

"Oh, you know, David's..."

“哦，你知道，大卫的……”

My brother who lives up in the north.

我住在北方的兄弟。

"David's doing okay.

“大卫一切都很好。

He's still got his roof and he's okay.

他的屋顶还在，他没事。

He's safe from the tornado."

他没有受到龙卷风的袭击。”

And I was like,

"What?"

我当时想，

“什么？”

There was actually a tornado crazy.

实际上有一场疯狂的龙卷风。

Wow.

哇。

Wow.

哇。

But yes, our weather here is, although not usually extreme, it is

但是，是的，我们这里的天气虽然通常不是极端的，但却是

unpredictable, and so, it's something that we always like to talk about.

不可预测的，因此，这是我们总是喜欢谈论的事情。

And actually it's a good conversation starter if you're at a venue in a

实际上，如果您在专业环境中的场地

professional environment and the weather's been generally quite bad,

并且天气通常很糟糕， 那么这是一个很好的谈话开始，

but on this one occasion for this one day during an outdoor event, it's okay.

但在户外活动期间的这一天，这没关系。

You could start with,

你可以这样开始：

"We've been lucky with this weather today, haven't we?"

“今天天气这么好，我们很幸运，不是吗？”

It's a good line.

这是一条很好的路线。

Or the organisers have been quite unlucky today, haven't they?

还是主办方今天运气太差了不是？

You know, so it's a really good way to kind of initiate the conversation in a

你知道，所以这是一种以非常安全的方式开始对话的好方法

very safe way, talking about the weather.

，谈论天气。

But if you are at an event, then that could also create an

但如果你参加一个活动，那么这也可以创造一个

opportunity for small talk, can't it?

闲聊的机会，不是吗？

You just talk about what's going on around you.

你只是谈论你周围发生的事情。

Can you give us some examples?

您能给我们举一些例子吗？

Yeah.

是的。

I mean, so, you know, being at an event, I think the weather is

我的意思是，所以，你知道，在参加活动时，我认为天气只是

just a really good starting point.

一个非常好的起点。

But if you feel a little bit more adventurous, you could start to probe

但如果你想更具冒险精神，你可以开始询问

about if it's their first time here or how long they've been a part of the company

他们是否第一次来这里，或者他们在

they work for; what they think of the coffee, you know, do they take sugar?

他们工作的公司工作了多久；他们对咖啡的看法，你知道吗，他们加糖吗？

Do they not?

他们不是吗？

So milk, almond milk, coconut milk, all the rest of it.

所以牛奶、杏仁奶、椰奶，以及所有其他的。

So, you know, think things like this.

所以，你知道，这样想。

I think another cliche whether at a business event or just, you know,

我认为另一个陈词滥调是假期，无论是在商务活动中，还是

down the coffee shop or waiting for a bus, is holidays, you know.

在咖啡店或等公共汽车时。

Have you had much time off this year, et cetera?

今年你有很多假期吗？

What do you think about that one?

您对此有何看法？

Is this one of your go-to small talk lines?

这是你常用的闲聊台词之一吗？

This is always what I associate with the hairdressers.

这一直是我与理发师的联系。

So, with my sons, we play a lot of games.

所以，和我的儿子们一起，我们玩了很多游戏。

I'm a very playful mum.

我是一个非常贪玩的妈妈。

Especially when I want them to do things that they're not very good at doing.

尤其是当我希望他们做他们不太擅长做的事情时。

Like brushing their teeth every night.

就像每天晚上刷牙一样。

When they brush their teeth my three year old would come to

当他们刷牙时，我三岁的孩子会拿着

me with his toothbrush and say,

牙刷来找我说：

"I want to see the dentist."

“我想看牙医。”

Because at one point they were getting too fast at brushing their

因为有一次他们刷牙速度太快

teeth and they wouldn't really let me or my partner help them.

，他们不会真正让我或我的伴侣帮助他们。

And so we introduced the dentist game and I'd be like,

所以我们介绍了牙医游戏，我会说，

"Hello!

Who's coming to sit in the dentist chair?"

“哈喽！

谁来坐在牙医椅子上？”

And then they lie down on the floor.

然后他们躺在地板上。

I'm sitting down with my legs crossed and they put their head in my lap and

我盘腿坐下，他们把头放在我的腿上

then I can brush their teeth really well.

然后我就可以很好地给他们刷牙了。

And as I'm doing it, I always say,

当我这样做的时候，我总是会说：

"So, have you been on holiday this year?"

“那么，你今年度假了吗？”

So, that's the dentist.

所以，这就是牙医。

It's very convincing, very condensing.

非常有说服力，非常凝练。

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we do the hairdressers in when we're in the bath and I'm washing their hair and

是的。 是的。

当我们在洗澡的时候，我们会让理发师进来，我给他们洗头发，

that's always one that comes up as well.

这也是经常出现的问题。

Like,

比如，

"Been anywhere nice this year?"

“今年有什么好玩的地方吗？”

Fantastic.

极好的。

I'm going on holiday next week.

我下周要去度假。

I'm going to the Bahamas.

我要去 巴哈马 。

Have you ever been?

你去过吗？

And so, yeah, talking about travel is something that people

所以，是的，谈论旅行是人们

generally enjoy discussing.

普遍喜欢讨论的事情。

Travel isn't usually a negative topic for anybody.

对于任何人来说，旅行通常都不是一个负面话题。

So, it's a safe one to bring up and people get excited when

因此，这是一个安全的话题，人们在

talking about their adventures.

谈论他们的冒险经历时会感到兴奋。

That's it.

That's it.

就是这样。

就是这样。

And I think that's a really key point just to sort of land on there is about talking

我认为这是一个非常关键的点，只是谈论

about their own personal experience.

他们自己的个人经历。

You know, if you start to talk to somebody about them and what they enjoy

你知道，如果你开始和某人谈论他们以及他们喜欢

doing, like you said about the bag or the holidays, you see people just

做的事情，就像你说的关于包包或假期，你会看到人们很

light up, you know, they explode with conversation and it makes that small

高兴，你知道，他们会爆发出谈话，这使得

talk piece, that getting to know one another much easier as they're sort of

闲聊变成了一件小事，彼此了解会更容易，因为

just this waterfall of information then.

那时他们只是信息的瀑布。

Yeah.

是的。

People just love talking about themselves, and so, you know, this

人们只是喜欢谈论自己，所以，你知道，这

is one of the things I teach when talking about listening skills.

是我在谈论倾听技巧时教的内容之一。

Really giving people a chance to talk and actually listening.

真正给人们一个交谈和倾听的机会。

Listening to them in a way that's wanting to learn from them, rather than just

以一种想要向他们学习的方式倾听他们，而不是仅仅

waiting for your chance to talk about yourself, but really listening to them

等待机会谈论自己，而是真正倾听他们

makes them feel valued and makes them feel heard and that makes them warm to

会让他们感到被重视，让他们感到被倾听，这会让他们对

you more than they would other people.

你更加 热情 其他人。

I definitely can think of the people that I enjoy talking to.

我绝对能想到那些我喜欢与之交谈的人。

And those are the people who I feel like they want to know about my life and they

我觉得这些人想了解我的生活，

want to know what's going on with me.

想知道我的近况。

And those are the people that are my best friends and the people I enjoy spending

这些人是我最好的朋友，也是我

time with the most because they give me a platform to feel heard and so, giving

最喜欢与之共度时光的人，因为他们给了我一个让我感到被倾听的平台，因此，让

people a chance to talk about their personal experience is a really great way

人们有机会谈论他们的个人经历是一个非常好的

to get started when talking to someone.

开始 方式 与某人交谈时。

Like you said about not just waiting for your turn to speak.

就像你所说的，不仅仅是等待轮到你发言。

I think that's just, it's such good advice, especially now as people

我认为这只是一个很好的建议，尤其是现在人们

are on that hair trigger, just ready to jump in and say their bits.

已经一触即发，准备跳出来说出自己的观点。

It's like, listen to the other person and extract some of that

这就像倾听别人的意见并提取一些

information and recycle it.

信息并回收它。

You know, recycling that information, as we talked about earlier, is really good.

您知道，正如我们之前讨论的那样，回收这些信息确实很好。

And not closing down the conversation too early with like closed statements,

不要过早地用诸如

"Have you..", or "Do you..", because that doesn't really give the other party an

“你……”或“你……”之类的封闭式陈述来结束对话，因为这并没有真正给对方一个

opportunity to really expand on their answer, you know, using open-ended

机会来真正扩展他们的答案，你知道，使用开放式

questions, "How long?", "Where?"

问题，“多长时间？”，“在哪里？”

"Who?"

"How?"

"What?"

“WHO？”

“如何？”

“什么？”

you know, all these sorts of words really help with the small talk.

你知道，所有这些词语对于闲聊确实很有帮助。

Yeah.

So, yeah, you're talking there about like the difference between yes/no

是的。

所以，是的，你在那里谈论的是是/否

questions and then open-ended questions.

问题和开放式问题 之间的区别

So, just to really make it clear, a yes/no question is something like,

。 所以，为了真正说清楚，是/否问题就像

"Have you been here before?"

“你以前来过这里吗？”

Or

或者

"Did you enjoy that?"

“你喜欢这样吗？”

That, you know, if someone is a good speaker and good at conversation,

你知道，如果某人善于演讲并且善于交谈，

then they'll take that yes/no question and they will expand.

那么他们就会接受是/否问题，然后他们就会扩展。

"Yeah, I've been here before.

“是啊，我以前来过这里。

I actually really enjoyed it last time, but haven't enjoyed it as much this time.

其实上次我还挺喜欢这里的，但这次就没那么喜欢了。

What did you think?"

你觉得怎么样？”

But potentially if someone is feeling, maybe they don't know you, so they're

但如果有人感觉，也许他们不认识你，所以他们有点

a bit apprehensive or they're not very good at small talk, then they'll

担心，或者他们不太擅长闲聊，那么他们会

take that yes/no question and just go,

回答是/否问题，然后说：

"Yeah."

“是的。 ”

And then you just hit a brick wall and you have to then start digging

然后你就碰上了砖墙，你必须开始挖掘

and it becomes more awkward to find something to keep the conversation going.

，找到一些东西来让谈话继续下去就变得更加尴尬。

So, as you said, one of the better things to do is use open-ended

因此，正如您所说，最好的做法之一是使用开放式

questions, which usually begin with Wh-?

问题，通常以 Wh- 开头？

"Why?", "Where?", "When?"

“为什么？”、“在哪里？”、“什么时候？”

and "Who?"

还有谁？”

"What did you think of the event this year?"

“你觉得今年的活动怎么样？”

Things like that give them a chance to then, or they have to,

这样的事情给了他们一个机会，或者他们必须这样做，

they can't just say "yes", "no".

他们不能只是说“是”、“不”。

They have to say a little bit more and that helps to keep things going.

他们必须多说一点，这有助于让事情继续下去。

Are there any other things that you would suggest to someone who's trying

对于那些试图

to improve their small talk in terms of keeping the conversation flowing

改善闲聊的人，在

once the questions have started and the responses are coming in?

问题开始并得到答复后保持对话流畅，您还有什么建议吗？

How would someone keep it going?

有人会如何让它继续下去？

Because there is sometimes that awkwardness, isn't there, where you

因为有时会出现这种尴尬，不是吗？你

are brave enough to jump in with a good opening statement or question;

有足够的勇气跳出来提出一个好的开场白或问题；

you get a positive response and then it just falls flat and you're like, I

你得到了积极的回应，然后就变得平淡无奇，你就像，我

can't think of anything else to say.

想不出还有什么可说的。

Yeah.

And then it's even more awkward almost because it's kind of

是的。 然后就更尴尬了，因为它有点

started and then stopped.

开始然后就停止了。

So, what advice would you give in that situation?

那么，在这种情况下你会给出什么建议呢？

I think there are two places where you can go here.

我认为这里有两个地方可以去。

The first one is, as we've mentioned before, about recycling the information.

正如我们之前提到的，第一个是关于信息的回收。

If you volunteer a piece of information, then I'm going to be

如果您自愿提供一条信息，那么我将寻找

looking for that and just sort of drill down into that a little bit more.

该信息并进一步深入研究。

You know, you mentioned about scuba diving in Egypt and I

你知道，你提到了在埃及的水肺潜水，我

asked you how that was, you know,

问你那是怎样的，你知道，

"What did you see?"

“你看到了什么？”

And you saw shipwrecks, et cetera.

你还看到了沉船等。

And also using those open-ended questions, I think a combination of those two things,

并且使用这些开放式问题，我认为这两件事的结合，

so recycled information, in addition to those open-ended questions really pulls

所以除了那些开放式问题之外，回收的信息确实能吸引

your audience, that third party into it.

你的观众，即第三方。

And you can really enjoy the conversation as well.

而且你也可以真正享受谈话的乐趣。

It's a really good way of keeping it going and if the conversation dries up, you can

这是保持对话的一个非常好的方法，如果谈话枯竭，你可以

volunteer a piece of information and talk about how or why or when you did something

自愿提供一条信息，并谈论你如何、为什么或何时做了一些

as well that reflects the speaker.

反映演讲者的事情。

What about yourself?

你自己呢？

I mean, do you have any pro tips?

我的意思是，你有什么专业建议吗？

So, I think always having like a toolbox of questions, general questions.

所以，我认为总是有一个问题工具箱，一般性问题。

So, if we go back to the event scenario.

那么，如果我们回到事件场景。

So, I've been to a lot of events at the ExCel in London and you do

所以，我参加过伦敦 ExCel 举办的很多活动，你确实会

strike up conversations with people.

与人们进行交谈。

So, if you strike up a conversation based on the coffee, so, you're

所以，如果你根据咖啡开始对话，那么，你正在

standing in line, you've just got your coffee, you can see someone

排队，你刚刚喝了咖啡，你可以看到其他人

else has just got their coffee.

刚刚喝了咖啡。

And you know that that person is someone that you want to talk to because

你知道那个人是你想与之交谈的人，因为

they work for a certain company and you want to strike a conversation.

他们在某家公司工作，而你想与之交谈。

And they're drinking the coffee, and you just have a sip of the coffee, and

他们正在喝咖啡，而你只喝了一口咖啡，

your opening line is something like,

你的开场白就是

"What do you think of the coffee?"

“你觉得咖啡怎么样？”

Because you can see maybe they're not enjoying it.

因为你可以看到也许他们不喜欢它。

And they might respond with,

他们可能会回答：

"Oh, I've had better."

“哦，我吃过更好的了。”

Yeah.

Then the conversation potentially stops.

是的。 然后对话可能会停止。

And so what you then do is go to your toolbox and think,

然后你要做的就是打开你的工具箱并思考：

"What else can I talk about?"

“我还能谈论什么？”

Well, we're in a shared environment, the coffee's not going anywhere.

好吧，我们在一个共享的环境中，咖啡不会去任何地方。

So,

所以，

"Have you been to any of the talks today?

“你参加了今天的任何会谈吗？

I hear that, Monica Lewinsky is doing the closing speech.

我听说莫妮卡·莱温斯基正在做闭幕演讲。

Are you going to go to that?"

你要去参加吗？”

And then that might open up the conversation more.

然后这可能会进一步打开对话。

And then if that doesn't work, I might say something about the weather.

如果这不起作用，我可能会说一些有关天气的事情。

So, having like a set handful of questions that I can throw in and

因此，我可以提出一些问题，就像

like you said, if the questions don't lead anywhere, then make a statement

你说的那样，如果这些问题没有任何结果，那么就发表声明

and see if they take the bait.

，看看他们是否上钩。

So, I said,

所以，我说：

"What do you think of the coffee?"

“你觉得咖啡怎么样？”

They said they had better.

他们说他们有更好的。

I don't know what else to say.

我不知道还能说什么。

I'd say,

"This is my first time at the event.

我会说：

“这是我第一次参加这个活动，

I think it's really good."

我觉得这真的很好。”

And see if they then, and they should then respond to that with something to

看看他们是否会这样做，然后他们应该用一些东西来回应，以

help the conversation flow because it is two way after all people can see if

帮助对话顺利进行，因为毕竟所有人都可以看到

you're trying to make a conversation.

你是否正在尝试进行对话，这是两种方式。

Of course.

当然。

Yeah.

Yeah.

是的。

是的。

Yeah.

Having a toolkit, having a toolbox of sort of, one liners just to

是的。 拥有一个工具箱，拥有一个工具箱之类的工具箱，只是

deploy in some case, high-pressure situations, you know, this individual

在某些情况下部署的内衬，高压情况下，你知道，

at the ExCel is quite an important character or carries a lot of weight.

ExCel 的这个人是一个非常重要的人物或承担着很大的责任。

You might feel the pressure a little bit.

你可能会感到一点压力。

Yeah.

And I think especially for non natives that really want to nail

是的。 我认为，特别是对于非本地人来说，真正想要解决

this small talk is to drill, you know, pick three and go with them.

这个闲聊的问题就是进行练习，你知道，选择三个并与他们一起进行。

What do you think of the coffee?

你觉得咖啡怎么样？

And, you know, really drill that into your vocabulary so you can get that

而且，你知道，真正将其融入你的词汇中，这样

out even when you're not feeling a hundred percent or a little bit nervous.

即使你没有感到百分百紧张或有点紧张，你也可以把它说出来。

Yeah.

是的。

And then if you want to have more of a conversation with someone, but obviously

然后，如果你想与某人进行更多对话，但显然

you've literally just hijacked them.

你已经劫持了他们。

You've just grabbed their attention.

你刚刚吸引了他们的注意力。

Ambushed.

遭到伏击。

Yeah, perhaps they are having a 10-minute break from what has been

是的，也许他们在忙碌的早上休息了 10 分钟，

quite a busy morning and they've got another appointment to get to.

并且还有另一个约会要去参加。

You've just jumped in and started making small talk with them.

你刚刚介入并开始与他们闲聊。

So, I think it's really important to read the signs to try and

所以，我认为阅读这些迹象来尝试

read whether or not this person..

了解这个人是否是真的很重要。

That's a great point.

这是一个很好的观点。

Are they checking their watch?

他们在看手表吗？

Are they checking their phone?

他们在检查手机吗？

Do they seem distracted?

他们看起来心烦意乱吗？

So, let's say that you've just struck up conversation with

那么，假设您刚刚与

someone you really want to talk to.

您真正想交谈的人进行了交谈。

The small talk is going well, but you can see that they're a little distracted.

闲聊进行得很顺利，但你可以看出他们有点心不在焉。

Do you have any suggestions of what you might do to make sure that

您是否有什么建议可以确保您

you get a chance to have a deeper conversation with this person, but

有机会与此人进行更深入的交谈，但又

without being rude and annoying?

不会显得粗鲁和烦人？

Yeah.

是的。

Great question, and I'm sure that many people face this on a daily basis.

很好的问题，我相信很多人每天都会遇到这个问题。

I would, I mean the first thing is compliment, you know, like we've spoken

我的意思是，第一件事是赞美，你知道，就像我们已经谈过的

about already, complimenting the other person, thanking them, being grateful for

那样，赞美对方，感谢他们，感谢

the time that they have spent with you.

他们与你一起度过的时光。

And if you are interested in developing this relationship then,

如果你有兴趣发展这种关系，那么，

"Thanks very much for your time.

“非常感谢你抽出时间。

You know, it's been great chatting with you."

你知道，与你聊天真是太棒了。”

Yeah, that's a good one.

So, showing that acknowledgement straight away and then you can

是的，那是一件好事。

所以，立即表示确认，然后你就可以

steer it, you know, either way.

控制它，你知道，无论哪种方式。

Maybe you do want to follow up or maybe you don't, and

也许你确实想跟进，也可能不想，

"It'd be great to catch up again sometime, if I could grab some details"

“如果我能掌握一些细节，下次能再跟进就太好了”

or "grab your details" would work.

或“掌握你的详细信息”会起作用。

If not be more indirect, you know, very British about it,

如果不是更间接的话，你知道，非常英国化，

"Maybe we'll bump into each other again sometime."

“也许我们有一天会再次相遇。”

And taking the indirect route.

并采取间接路线。

It really depends what you would like to do in that situation, but certainly

这实际上取决于您在这种情况下想做什么，但当然

compliment and be grateful for the time that they have spent with you.

要称赞并感激他们与您一起度过的时间。

Yeah.

是的。

Thoughts on that?

对此有何想法？

Would you do anything differently?

你会做一些不同的事情吗？

In a business setting, I would still these days ask for someone's card.

在商务场合，我现在仍然会向某人索要名片。

I know that they're becoming less popular because everyone can connect on

我知道它们越来越不受欢迎，因为每个人都可以通过

the phone, but I wouldn't potentially just say I'd love to connect.

电话进行连接，但我可能不会只是说我很乐意连接。

I'd love a chance to speak with you more about this.

我很想有机会与您进一步讨论此事。

Or yeah, just using that phrase, it would be great to connect sometime

或者，是的，只是使用这个短语，如果有时间联系就太好了

or, I'd love to talk more about...

，或者，我想更多地谈论……

I don't know, filming in 4k.

我不知道，用 4k 拍摄。

I'd love to talk more about that, at some point, if you have any time later

如果您 今天晚些时候或在活动期间的 某个时候有时间的话，我很乐意在某个时候进一步讨论这一点

today or at some point over the event.

。

So, just offering up in a really gentle way and also showing appreciation

所以，只要以一种非常温和的方式奉献，并对

for the time that they have, you know, saying something like, you're

他们所拥有的时间表示感激，你知道，说一些类似的话，你

probably busy right now, but if you have any time later, or over the

现在可能很忙，但如果你稍后或周末有时间

weekend, it'd be great to catch up.

，那就可以了。能赶上就太好了。

Something like that.

类似的事情。

Just saying, I appreciate you're probably very busy.

只是说，我很感激你可能很忙。

I always appreciate it when people contact me.

当人们联系我时，我总是很感激。

I get lots of unsolicited messages and emails.

我收到很多未经请求的消息和电子邮件。

And when people say, I appreciate you're probably really busy.

当人们说“我很感激你”时，你可能真的很忙。

I know you're busy.

我知道你很忙。

If they contact me three or four times on the same email chain and I

如果他们通过同一个电子邮件链联系我三四次而我

haven't responded, and they usually say, look, I know you're really busy.

没有回复，他们通常会说，听着，我知道你真的很忙。

And this email is probably just got washed away in a sea of emails.

这封电子邮件可能刚刚被淹没在电子邮件的海洋中。

I'm just bumping it up in case you are still interested.

我只是把它加起来以防你仍然感兴趣。

That's the best way to approach rather than being.

这是最好的接近方式，而不是存在方式。

Yeah, pushy, not too pushy, you know, getting, not having an edge to the

是的，咄咄逼人，不要太咄咄逼人，你知道，在谈话中没有优势

conversation, you know, it is the other person's choice, but you know,

，你知道，这是对方的选择，但你知道，

be grateful, and gracious as well.

要感恩，也要有礼貌。

"I don't want to keep you" is a good phrase.

“我不想留住你”这句话说得好。

That's a great one.

Especially if you are trying to ascertain whether someone is open to

那真是太棒了。

特别是当您试图确定某人是否愿意

spending more time chatting with you.

花更多时间与您聊天时。

Maybe you've got an hour free for your lunchtime, and you're not

也许你有一个小时的午餐时间，但你不确定

sure if they have or not, and you want to get deep into conversation.

他们是否有，而你想深入交谈。

You could say,

"Look, I don't want to keep you, but it'd be great to chat to you more about this."

你可以说，

“听着，我不想留着你，但能和你多聊聊这件事就太好了。”

And then they might say to you,

然后他们可能会对你说：

"Well, actually I'm on a break until four o'clock this afternoon.

“好吧，实际上我今天下午四点之前都在休息。

So, I'm at a bit of a loose end.

所以，我有点闲着。

D'you want to go and grab something to eat and we can talk about it now."

你想去吃点东西吗？”我们现在就可以讨论这个问题了。”

So, just saying, "I don't want to keep you", it gives them the

因此，只要说“我不想留下你”，他们就可以选择

option to accept or decline more time with you at that point.

接受或拒绝与你在一起的更多时间。

So, it's a good one to remember.

所以，这是一个值得记住的好事情。

That's a fantastic one.

那真是太棒了。

Yeah, I don't want to keep you.

是的，我不想留住你。

And Rob, I have actually kept you now for an hour on this recording, so I

罗布，实际上我已经让你在这段录音中留了一个小时，所以我

don't want to keep you any longer.

不想再留你了。

No, it's been an absolute pleasure being here.

不，来到这里真是太愉快了。

It's been absolutely awesome talking through some of this stuff with you.

与您讨论这些内容真是太棒了。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you.

I've really appreciated all your insights and advice.

谢谢。

我非常感谢您的所有见解和建议。

What I will do for my Plus Members is to create a little sheet with, like a

我将为我的 Plus 会员做的是创建一个小表，例如

crib sheet, or a cue sheet with some of the phrases that we've mentioned here

婴儿床表或提示表，其中包含我们今天在这里提到的一些短语

today and when you should use them.

以及何时应该使用它们。

And that will be available to Plus Members.

Plus 会员也可以使用该功能。

So, without further ado, I'm going to thank you, Rob, and I'm going to

所以，言归正传，我要感谢你，罗布，我会鼓励

encourage my listeners to come and listen to the conversation that we

我的听众来听我们

have on your podcast, which is all about how to interrupt someone, but

在你的播客上进行的对话，这都是关于如何打断某人的，但

in a polite way, because sometimes we do need to make a little interjection.

在这是一种礼貌的方式，因为有时我们确实需要插一句。

We do need to interrupt.

我们确实需要打断一下。

Absolutely.

绝对地。

But you don't want to offend someone in the process.

但您不想在此过程中冒犯某人。

So if you guys want to hear us talking about that, then I'll leave the

因此，如果你们想听我们谈论这个，那么我将

details and links in the show notes.

在节目笔记中留下详细信息和链接。

So Rob, where can people find you if they want to listen to you

那么罗布，如果人们想听你的歌

and your lovely tones generally?

和你可爱的音调，他们可以在哪里找到你呢？

We're on iTunes, Spotify, and all the other major podcast platforms

我们在 iTunes、Spotify 和所有其他主要播客平台

or at thebusinessenglishpodcast.com.

或 thebusinessenglishpodcast.com 上提供服务。

You can find us there.

您可以在那里找到我们。

Okay, so if I'm on Spotify and I'm just searching for you, I just type

好的，如果我在 Spotify 上搜索你，我只需输入

in the British English Podcast.

英式英语播客即可。

The Business English.

商务英语。

Oh, the...

Business Business.

哦，商业 商业。

The Business.

The Business.

这生意。

这生意。

The Business English Podcast.

商务英语播客。

I mean, they have a great podcast too.

我的意思是，他们也有很棒的播客。

You know, they have a great podcast too.

你知道，他们也有很棒的播客。

But The Business English Podcast.

但是商务英语播客。

Yeah, The Business English Podcast.

是的，商务英语播客。

Okay.

How to offend someone in one line.

好的。

如何一句话冒犯某人。

Excellent.

出色的。

Repeat their name back.

重复他们的名字。

Good.

Wrong.

好的。 错误的。

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

是的。 好的。

是的。

Very good.

Okay.

非常好。

好的。 那么商务英语播客和您也在 YouTube 上，对吧？

So The Business English Podcast and you're also on YouTube as well, right?

That's right.

Yeah.

这是正确的。

是的。 Energetic English 是该频道，因此您可以

Energetic English is the channel, so you can find all

the podcast material on there.

在那里找到所有播客材料。

Fantastic.

All right.

极好的。

好的。

Well, thank you so much for joining us and to my listeners, thank you

好吧，非常感谢您加入我们，也感谢我的听众，感谢您

for joining and I'll see you and tickle your eardrums again very soon.

的加入，我很快就会再次见到您并让您的耳膜发痒。

Until then, take care and goodbye.

在那之前，保重并再见。