How we experience time and memory through art | Sarah Sze

I want to start with a question.

譯者: Yanyan Hong 審譯者: Helen Chang

我想用一個問題來開場。

Where does an artwork begin?

藝術作品從哪裡開始？

Now sometimes that question is absurd.

有時，這個問題顯得很荒謬。

It can seem deceptively simple,

它看似簡單，

as it was when I asked the question with this piece, "Portable Planetarium,"

我配合我 2010 年的 作品「可攜式天文館」

that I made in 2010.

提出問出這個問題時就是如此。

I asked the question:

我問：

"What would it look like to build a planetarium of one's own?"

「建自己的天文館會是什麼樣子？」

I know you all ask that every morning,

我知道你們每天早上都這麼問，

but I asked myself that question.

但，我問我自己這個問題。

And as an artist,

身為藝術家，

I was thinking about our effort,

我想的是我們的努力、慾望，

our desire, our continual longing that we've had over the years

多年來我們持續不斷的渴求，

to make meaning of the world around us

希望透過素材 將意義賦予我們周遭的世界。

through materials.

And for me, to try and find the kind of wonder,

我不止試圖找到那種驚奇，

but also a kind of futility that lies in that very fragile pursuit,

而這種徒勞無益的脆弱追求，

is part of my art work.

兩者皆出現在我藝術的作品中。

So I bring together the materials I find around me,

因此我結合周遭找到的素材，

I gather them to try and create experiences,

嘗試創造體驗，

immersive experiences that occupy rooms,

佔據房間的種沉浸式體驗，

that occupy walls, landscapes, buildings.

佔據牆壁、地景、建築物，

But ultimately, I want them to occupy memory.

我希望最終它們會佔據記憶。

And after I've made a work,

完成作品之後，

I find that there's usually one memory of that work that burns in my head.

我發現通常在腦中會有一種 關於那件作品的記憶在燃燒著。

And this is the memory for me --

這是給我的記憶——

it was this sudden kind of surprising experience

這種記憶是一種突然的驚異體驗，

of being immersed inside that work of art.

感覺沉浸到了藝術作品中。

And it stayed with me and kind of reoccurred in my work

這種記憶揮之不去，

且還會再次出現在 我十年之後的作品中。

about 10 years later.

But I want to go back to my graduate school studio.

但我想先回頭談談 我讀研究所時的工作室。

I think it's interesting, sometimes, when you start a body of work,

我覺得很有趣的是，

有時要開始創作就得全盤拭淨，

you need to just completely wipe the plate clean,

take everything away.

拋開一切。

And this may not look like wiping the plate clean,

這看起來可能不像全盤拭淨，

but for me, it was.

但對我來說的確是。

Because I had studied painting for about 10 years,

因為我學畫大約十年，

and when I went to graduate school,

當我進入研究所時，

I realized that I had developed skill, but I didn't have a subject.

我發現我雖然已經 發展出了技能，卻沒有主題。

It was like an athletic skill,

這就像是一種運動技能，

因為我可以非常快速地畫完人像，

because I could paint the figure quickly,

但不知道為什麼，

but I didn't know why.

I could paint it well, but it didn't have content.

我可以畫得很好，卻沒有內容。

And so I decided to put all the paints aside for a while,

於是我決定把所有的畫作 暫且擺到一旁，

and to ask this question, which was:

先問：

"Why and how do objects acquire value for us?"

「為什麼和如何 物品對我們有價值？」

How does a shirt that I know thousands of people wear,

我知道有數千人穿的上衣，

a shirt like this one,

像這樣的上衣，

how does it somehow feel like it's mine?

我怎麼會覺得它感覺像是我的？

So I started with that experiment,

所以，我開始實驗，

I decided, by collecting materials that had a certain quality to them.

我決定收集本身 具有某種特性的素材，

They were mass-produced, easily accessible,

找量產、容易取得的東西，

completely designed for the purpose of their use,

完全以功能來設計，

not for their aesthetic.

不考量美感。

So things like toothpicks, thumbtacks,

比如牙籤、圖釘、

pieces of toilet paper,

廁所衛生紙，

to see if in the way that I put my energy, my hand, my time into them,

我嘗試投入能量、手工和時間，

that the behavior could actually create a kind of value in the work itself.

看這樣的行為是否能為 作品本身創造出價值。

One of the other ideas is, I wanted the work to become live.

我還有另一個想法，

希望作品能活過來。

So I wanted to take it off of the pedestal,

我想要讓作品脫離展示底座，

not have a frame around it,

周圍沒有框架，

have the experience not be that you came to something

體驗並不是因為你告訴自己 眼前這個事物很重要，

and told you that it was important,

but that you discover that it was in your own time.

而是照你自己的步調去發現。

So this is like a very, very old idea in sculpture,

這就像雕塑中極為古老的想法，

which is: How do we breathe life into inanimate materials?

即：我們要如何把生命 帶入到無生命的素材中？

And so, I would go to a space like this,

所以，我會到這樣的空間中，

where there was a wall,

那裡有一面牆，

and use the paint itself,

我會用顏料本身

pull the paint out off the wall,

把顏料從牆中拉出， 把牆上的顏料拉入空間，

the wall paint into space to create a sculpture.

創造雕塑。

Because I was also interested in this idea

因為，我也很喜歡這個想法，

that these terms, "sculpture," "painting," "installation" --

「雕塑」、「繪畫」、 「裝置」這些詞彙——

none of these mattered in the way we actually see the world.

就我們看世界的方式而言， 這些詞彙是沒意義的。

So I wanted to blur those boundaries,

所以，我想要模糊那些界線，

both between mediums that artists talk about,

不僅模糊藝術家常說的 媒材之間的界線，

but also blur the experience of being in life and being in art,

也模糊身處生活和身處藝術中 兩者之間的經驗，

so that when you are in your everyday,

所以，當你在你的日常中時，

or when you are in one of my works,

或者當你在我的一件作品中時，

and you saw, you recognized the everyday,

你會看見、認出那些日常，

you could then move that experience into your own life,

接著你就可以把那樣的體驗 搬到你自己的生活中，

and perhaps see the art in everyday life.

也許就能在日常生活中看見藝術。

I was in graduate school in the '90s,

我在 1990 年代讀研究所，

and my studio just became more and more filled with images,

我的工作室漸漸堆滿了影像，

as did my life.

我的人生亦是如此。

And this confusion of images and objects

分不出影像和物品的這種混淆，

was really part of the way I was trying to make sense of materials.

其實就是我試圖讓素材 具有意義的一種方式。

And also, I was interested in how this might change

此外，我也很好奇這會如何

the way that we actually experience time.

改變我們實際上對時間的體驗。

If we're experiencing time through materials,

如果我們透過素材來體驗時間，

what happens when images and objects become confused in space?

當影像和物品在空間中 混淆在一起時，會怎麼樣？

So I started by doing some of these experiments with images.

所以，我開始用影像做實驗。

And if you look back to the 1880s,

如果回頭看 1880 年代，

that's when the first photographs started turning into film.

那時照片開始轉變成為影片。

And they were done through studies of animals,

測試的方式是研究動物，

the movement of animals.

動物的動作，

So horses in the United States, birds in France.

用美國的馬、法國的鳥。

They were these studies of movement

因為有這些動作的研究，

that then slowly, like zoetropes, became film.

就像活動畫片玩具， 慢慢變成了影片。

So I decided, I will take an animal

所以我決定要用動物

and I'm going to play with that idea

試試那想法：

of how the image is not static for us anymore, it's moving.

影像不再靜止，是會動的，

It's moving in space.

會在空間中動。

And so I chose as my character the cheetah,

我選擇的角色是獵豹，

because she is the fastest land-dwelling creature on earth.

因為牠是地球上最快的陸地動物。

And she holds that record,

牠是記錄保持者，

and I want to use her record

而我想要用牠的記錄，

to actually make it kind of a measuring stick for time.

來真正做出一種時間測量棒。

And so this is what she looked like in the sculpture

在雕塑中，牠穿越空間時 看起來就是這個樣子。

as she moved through space.

This kind of broken framing of the image in space,

我把空間中的影像 用破碎的框框拼起來，

because I had put up notepad paper

我得把筆記本的紙弄上去，

and had it actually project on it.

真正投影在上頭。

Then I did this experiment where you have kind of a race,

接著，我做了這個實驗， 讓你可以參與賽跑，

with these new tools and video that I could play with.

運用這些新工具和影片就可以玩。

So the falcon moves out in front,

獵鷹在前面飛，

the cheetah, she comes in second,

獵豹位居第二，

and the rhino is trying to catch up behind.

犀牛則在後面追趕。

Then another one of the experiments,

還有另一項實驗，

I was thinking about how,

我在想

if we try and remember one thing that happened to us

如果我們試圖憶起 曾經發生在我們身上的一件事，

when we were, let's say, 10 years old.

比如我們十歲時的事。

It's very hard to remember even what happened in that year.

很難記得那個年紀發生的事情。

And for me, I can think of maybe one, maybe two,

我大概只能想起一兩件事，

and that one moment has expanded in my mind

而那個時刻就在我腦中展開，

to fill that entire year.

填滿了那一整年。

So we don't experience time in minutes and seconds.

所以，我們並不是以分、 秒的形式來經歷時間的。

So this is a still of the video that I took,

我對著影片拍下這張照片，

printed out on a piece of paper,

再將它印在一張紙上，

the paper is torn and then the video is projected on top of it.

這張紙被撕破，接著 再把影片投影在上頭。

And I wanted to play with this idea

我想要玩這個點子，

of how, in this kind of complete immersion of images

想看看全面沉浸在 這種包圍我們的影像中，

that's enveloped us,

how one image can actually grow

一張影像如何能夠增長，

and can haunt us.

讓我們難以忘懷。

So I had all of these --

我做了一大堆——

these are three out of, like, 100 experiments I was trying with images

上述只是其中三種，出自

我在十多年間用影像做的 大約百種實驗，

for over about a decade,

and never showing them,

但我從來沒有展示它們。

and I thought, OK, how do I bring this out of the studio, into a public space,

我心想，好，

如果把它們帶出工作室， 帶入公共空間，

but retain this kind of energy of experimentation

但仍然要保留這種實驗的能量，

that you see when you go into a laboratory,

也就是當你進入實驗室、

you see when you go into a studio,

進入工作室時會看到的那種能量，

and I had this show coming up and I just said,

且我有一場展演在即，我就想，

alright, I'm going to put my desk right in the middle of the room.

好，我要把桌子放在房間的正中央。

So I brought my desk and I put it in the room,

於是我把我的桌子帶去， 放到房間中，

and it actually worked in this kind of very surprising way to me,

結果產生的效果讓我感到很驚奇，

in that it was this kind of flickering, because of the video screens, from afar.

因為遠處有影片螢幕閃爍。

And it had all of the projectors on it,

而所有的投影機都擺在它上頭，

so the projectors were creating the space around it,

所以投影機在它周圍創造出空間，

but you were drawn towards the flickering like a flame.

但你會被像火焰一樣的閃爍吸引。

And then you were enveloped in the piece

接著你會被這件作品包圍，

at the scale that we're all very familiar with,

它的規模是你非常熟悉的，

which is the scale of being in front of a desk or a sink or a table,

就是在書桌、水槽前， 或餐桌前的空間，

and you are immersed, then, back into this scale,

接著，你會重新 沉浸到這個規模當中，

this one-to-one scale of the body in relation to the image.

身體和影像的比例是一比一。

But on this surface,

但，在這表面上，

you had these projections on paper being blown in the wind,

這些在紙上的投影會被飛吹動，

so there was this confusion of what was an image

因此，會造成混淆，

分不出什麼是影像，什麼是物體。

and what was an object.

So this is what the work looked like when it went into a larger room,

把這件作品放入更大的房間 看起來會是這樣，

and it wasn't until I made this piece

一直到我做出這件作品，

that I realized that I'd effectively made the interior of a planetarium,

我才了解到我實際上 做出了天文館的內部，

without even realizing that.

卻不自覺。

And I remembered, as a child, loving going to the planetarium.

我記得，我小時候很愛去天文館。

And back then, the planetarium,

那時，在天文館，

there was always not only these amazing images on the ceiling,

不僅在屋頂上有著 很不可思議的影像，

but you could see the projector itself whizzing and burring,

還可以看到颼颼作響的投影機本身，

and this amazing camera in the middle of the room.

在房間中央有一台很棒的攝影機。

And it was that, along with seeing the audience around you looking up,

當時，可以看到 周圍的觀眾都在向上看，

because there was an audience in the round at that time,

因為當時有一群觀眾，

and seeing them, and experiencing, being part of an audience.

看著他們，體驗身為 他們當中的一分子。

我從網路上下載了這張影像，

So this is an image from the web that I downloaded

of people who took images of themselves in the work.

影像中的人在拍攝 他們置身其中的狀況。

And I like this image

我很喜歡這張影像，

because you see how the figures get mixed with the work.

因為你能看見人物和作品 如何混合在一起。

So you have the shadow of a visitor against the projection,

你會看見訪客的影子蓋在投影上，

and you also see the projections across a person's shirt.

你也會看到投影 出現在人的衣服上。

So there were these self-portraits made in the work itself,

所以作品本身就有這些自畫像，

and then posted,

接著再張貼出來，

and it felt like a kind of cyclical image-making process.

感覺就像是循環式的影像製作流程，

And a kind of an end to that.

還類似某種終點。

But it reminded me and brought me back to the planetarium,

它讓我想起天文館， 把我帶回天文館內。

and that interior,

and I started to go back to painting.

我又回去畫畫。

And thinking about how a painting is actually, for me,

我想，對我來說，繪畫的重點在於

about the interior images that we all have.

我們每個人都有的內部影像。

There's so many interior images,

有好多內部影像，

and we've become so focused on what's outside our eyes.

而我們已變成聚焦於 肉眼看得見的外在。

And how do we store memory in our mind,

我們要如何在腦中儲存記憶，

how certain images emerge out of nowhere

某些影像如何從不知何處冒出來，

or can fall apart over time.

或者可能會隨時間而瓦解。

And I started to call this series the "Afterimage" series,

我開始把這個系列 稱為「殘像」系列，

which was a reference to this idea that if we all close our eyes right now,

這個名稱來自於閉上眼睛時

you can see there's this flickering light that lingers,

還能看到閃爍的光線逗留；

and when we open it again, it lingers again --

再次張開眼睛時， 光線又開始逗留——

this is happening all the time.

這個現象不斷在發生。

And an afterimage is something that a photograph can never replace,

殘像是照片永遠無法取代的，

you never feel that in a photograph.

在照片中無法感受到殘像。

So it really reminds you of the limits of the camera's lens.

所以它會讓你想起相機鏡頭的限制。

So it was this idea of taking the images that were outside of me --

想法是用外在的影像——

this is my studio --

這是我的工作室——

and then trying to figure out how they were being represented inside me.

想辦法在我的內在呈現它們。

So really quickly,

讓我快速帶大家

I'm just going to whiz through how a process might develop

看一下作品可能的發展過程。

for the next piece.

So it might start with a sketch,

它可能始於一張素描，

or an image that's burned in my memory

或者我記憶中烙印的一個影像，

from the 18th century --

來自十八世紀——

it's Piranesi's "Colosseum."

這是皮拉奈奇的《羅馬競技場》。

Or a model the size of a basketball --

或是籃球大小的模型——

I built this around a basketball,

我沿著籃球建造，

the scale's evidenced by the red cup behind it.

可用後面的紅色杯子呈現它的比例。

And that model can be put into a larger piece as a seed,

這個模型可被當作種子， 放入更大的作品，

and that seed can grow into a bigger piece.

而那種子可以成長成為更大的作品。

And that piece can fill a very, very large space.

那作品可以填滿非常非常大的空間。

But it can funnel down into a video that's just made from my iPhone,

但它可以被縮進

我用 iPhone 製作的影片中，

of a puddle outside my studio in a rainy night.

內容是某個下雨的夜晚 我工作室外的一個水坑。

So this is an afterimage of the painting made in my memory,

這是我記憶中的畫作留下的殘像，

and even that painting can fade as memory does.

那畫作也有可能隨著 記憶淡去而跟著淡去。

So this is the scale of a very small image

這出自我的素描簿的一張小圖，

from my sketchbook.

做成放大版。

You can see how it can explode

各位可以看見它爆展開來

to a subway station that spans three blocks.

成為一個橫跨三個街區的地鐵站。

And you could see how going into the subway station

各位可以看到，進入這個地鐵站，

is like a journey through the pages of a sketchbook,

就像是踏上一段穿過 素描簿各頁的旅程，

and you can see sort of a diary of work writ across a public space,

可看見類似工作日誌 跨越了整個公共空間，

and you're turning the pages of 20 years of art work

通過地鐵就是一頁頁翻閱 二十年的藝術作品。

as you move through the subway.

But even that sketch actually has a different origin,

就連那張素描其實也有不同的源頭，

it has an origin in a sculpture that climbs a six-story building,

源頭是攀爬在六層樓建築上的雕塑，

and is scaled to a cat from the year 2002.

把比例縮到等同 2002 年的一隻貓。

I remember that because I had two black cats at the time.

我記得這件事是因為 我當時有兩隻黑貓。

And this is an image of a work from Japan

這張影像是在日本的作品，

that you can see the afterimage of in the subway.

各位可以看到地鐵的殘像。

Or a work in Venice,

這是在威尼斯的作品，

where you see the image etched in the wall.

可以看到影像被蝕刻在牆壁上。

Or how a sculpture that I did at SFMOMA in 2001,

這是 2001 年我在舊金山 現代藝術博物館的一件雕塑，

and created this kind of dynamic line,

創造出這種動態的線條，

how I stole that to create a dynamic line

我又用來做成

隨著向下進入地鐵的動態線條。

as you descend down into the subway itself.

And this merging of mediums is really interesting to me.

對於我來說，進入 這樣的表現媒體著實有趣。

So how can you take a line that pulls tension like a sculpture

例如，如何在畫作中 呈現雕塑綫條的張力？

and put it into a print?

Or then use line like a drawing in a sculpture

在雕塑中像畫圖一樣 用線條來創造戲劇性的視角？

to create a dramatic perspective?

Or how can a painting mimic the process of printmaking?

如何模仿版畫的過程來畫圖？

How can an installation use the camera's lens

如何利用攝像鏡頭做景觀的框架？

to frame a landscape?

How can a painting on string become a moment in Denmark,

弦上的畫在長途跋涉中 如何變爲丹麥的一瞬？

in the middle of a trek?

And how, on the High Line, can you create a piece

如何在高線公園創作能僞裝大自然，

that camouflages itself into the nature itself

and becomes a habitat for the nature around it?

並成爲自然棲息地的作品？

And I'll just end with two pieces that I'm making now.

最後我想分享兩件進行中的作品。

This is a piece called "Fallen Sky"

這一件叫做《墜落的天空》，

that's going to be a permanent commission in Hudson Valley,

將成爲哈德遜河谷永遠的珍藏，

and it's kind of the planetarium finally come down

彷彿是天文館終於降臨人間。

and grounding itself in the earth.

And this is a work from 2013 that's going to be reinstalled,

這件 2013 年的作品 將被重新安置在

have a new life in the reopening of MOMA.

新開放的現代藝術博物館。

And it's a piece that the tool itself is the sculpture.

這作品的工具本身就是雕塑，

So the pendulum, as it swings,

用這個搖動的風扇當鐘擺，

is used as a tool to create the piece.

它就是創作的工具。

So each of the piles of objects

所以每一組物體

go right up to one centimeter to the tip of that pendulum.

都堆叠到風扇上端 1公分處，

So you have this combination of the lull of that beautiful swing,

這樣既能感受到 鐘擺帶來的靜雅之美，

but also the tension that it constantly could destroy the piece itself.

又能感受到時刻都有可能 破壞作品本身的那種緊迫美。

And so, it doesn't really matter where any of these pieces end up,

這些作品的最終命運並不重要，

because the real point for me

因爲對於我來説，真正有意義的是

is that they end up in your memory over time,

它們終將隨著時間 消逝在你的記憶裡，

and they generate ideas beyond themselves.

並且產生超越本身的思考。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）