What a nun can teach a scientist about ecology | Victoria Gill

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

翻译人员: Jiong Guo 校对人员: Yolanda Zhang

OK, I would like to introduce all of you beautiful, curious-minded people

我要向你们这些出色的、 充满好奇心的观众介绍

to my favorite animal in the world.

我在这个世界上最喜欢的动物。

This is the Peter Pan of the amphibian world.

这是两栖动物世界的彼得·潘，

It's an axolotl.

一只墨西哥钝口螈。

It's a type of salamander,

它是蝾螈的一种，

but it never fully grows up and climbs out of the water

可它不像其它蝾螈那样 会完全发育长大，

like other salamanders do.

然后从水里爬上陆地。

And this little guy has X-Man-style powers, right?

这个小家伙有 X 战警般的力量。

So if it loses any limb,

如果它失去肢体，

it can just completely regenerate.

还可以完全再生。

It's amazing.

妙极了。

And, I mean, look at it -- it's got a face with a permanent smile.

看看它吧—— 脸上带着永恒的微笑。

(Laughter)

（笑）

It's framed by feathery gills.

羽毛状的腮像个画框。

It's just ... how could you not love that?

什么人会不喜欢它呢？

This particular type of axolotl, a very close relative,

这种特殊类型的 墨西哥钝口螈的近亲

is known as an achoque.

叫做安氏钝口螈。

It is equally as cute,

同样可爱，

and it lives in just one place in a lake in the north of Mexico.

它只生活在一个地方， 在墨西哥北部的一个湖中。

It's called Lake Pátzcuaro,

那个湖叫帕茨夸罗湖。

and as you can see,

大家能看到，

it is stunningly beautiful.

这里的景色令人惊叹。

But unfortunately, it's been so overfished and so badly polluted

但不幸的是，它被过度捕捞， 而且污染严重，

that the achoque is dying out altogether.

以至于安氏钝口螈成批死亡。

And this is something that's a scenario that's playing out all over the world.

这是一种正在世界范围内 蔓延的场景。

We're living through an extinction crisis,

我们正处于灭绝的危机之中，

and species are particularly vulnerable when they're evolutionarily tailored

当物种进化到只适合一个 小生态环境或一个湖泊时，

to just one little niche or maybe one lake.

它们尤其容易受到伤害。

But this is TED, right?

但这里是 TED，对不对？

So this is where I give you the big idea, the big solution.

所以我要给出重要构想 和重要解决方案。

那么，如何避免一种特殊的、 奇特的物种灭绝呢？

So how do you save one special weird species from going extinct?

Well, the answer, at least my answer,

答案，至少是我的答案，

isn't a grand technological intervention.

不是大规模的技术干预。

It's actually really simple.

它其实非常简单，

It's that you find people who know all about this animal

只要找到全面了解这种动物的人，

and you ask them and you listen to them

询问他们，倾听他们的意见，

and you work with them, if they're up for that.

如果他们愿意为此努力， 就和他们展开合作。

So I want to tell you about how I've seen that in science,

我想告诉大家 针对这个问题，我在科学上，

and in conservation in particular,

尤其是保护方面的看法。

if scientists don't team up with local people

当地的人有宝贵的知识，

who have really valuable knowledge

他们的实践智慧也许不会 在学术期刊上发表，

but a practical wisdom that's not going to be published in any academic journal,

但如果科学家不与他们合作，

they can really miss the point.

真的可能会错失良机。

Scientists and science as an enterprise can fall at the first hurdle

科学家和科学作为一个事业， 如果过于急躁地认为

if it rushes in knowing that it's the experts that know best.

只有专家才能提供最权威的答案， 就会在第一个障碍上栽跟头。

But when scientists shake off those academic constraints

但如果科学家们 摆脱学术上的限制，

and really look to people who have a totally different

真正向对自己要做的事情 有着完全不同

but really important perspective on what they're trying to do,

而又重要的观点的人们请教，

it can genuinely save the world,

他们才能真正的拯救世界，

one wonderfully weird amphibian at a time.

从每一种奇妙而怪异的 两栖动物开始。

So, in the case of the achoque,

对于安氏钝口螈来说，

these are the people you need on your team.

这些人是你需要的团队。

(Laughter)

（笑）

These are the Sisters of the Immaculate Health.

她们是“无瑕健康姐妹”，

They are nuns who have a convent in Pátzcuaro, they live in Pátzcuaro,

也是帕茨夸罗修道院的修女， 她们居住在帕茨夸罗，

and they have a shared history with the achoque.

与安氏钝口螈有共同的历史。

And it is so mind-bogglingly wonderful

这真是令人难以置信的奇妙，

that it drew me all the way there to make an audio documentary about them,

吸引了我一路为她们 制作音频纪录，

and I even have the unflattering selfie

我甚至还拥有不讨人喜欢的自拍照

to prove it.

来证明这一点。

There is a room at the center of their convent, though,

在她们的修道院中心有间

that looks like this.

像这样的房子。

它非常奇怪。

It's very strange.

装满淡水的水箱排成排，

It's lined with all these tanks full of fresh water

and hundreds of achoques.

里面有好几百只安氏钝口螈。

And that's because this creature, because of its regenerative abilities,

正是因为这种生物 有再生的能力，

it's believed has healing powers if you consume it.

人们相信食用它们 就拥有了自愈的能力。

So the sisters actually make and sell a medicine using achoques.

所以这些修女姐妹们制造并销售 用它们制作的药。

I bought a bottle of it.

我买了一瓶。

So this is it.

就是这个。

It tastes a bit like honey,

味道有点像蜂蜜，

but the sisters reckon it is good

修女们认为这种药对各类疾病，

for all kinds of particularly respiratory ailments.

特别是呼吸道疾病都有好处。

So I just want you to have a listen, if you will, to a clip of Sister Ofelia.

大家愿意的话，我想让各位 听听奥菲莉亚修女的一段话。

(Audio) Sister Ofelia: (speaks in Spanish)

（音频）奥菲莉亚修女： （西班牙语）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) Our convent was founded by Dominican nuns

（音频）（译员） 我们的修院是多米尼加修女们

于 1747 年在帕茨夸罗建立的。

here in Pátzcuaro in 1747.

Sometime after that,

在那以后的某一时间开始，

our sisters started to make the achoque syrup.

修女们开始制作钝口螈糖浆。

We didn't discover the properties of the achoque.

发现了钝口螈药用价值的并不是我们，

That was the original people from around here, since ancient times.

而是周围的本地人 在古代就发现了。

But we then started to make the syrup, too.

但后来我们也开始制作糖浆。

The locals knew that,

本地人了解到这些之后，

and they came to offer us the animals.

开始向我们提供这种动物。

(Audio) Victoria Gill: I see.

（音频）维多利亚·吉尔： 我知道了。

So the achoques are part of making that syrup.

钝口螈是糖浆的一种重要成分。

What does the syrup treat, and what is it for?

糖浆能治疗什么呢，干什么用的？

(Audio) SO: (speaks in Spanish)

（音频）奥菲莉亚： （西班牙语）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) It's good for coughs, asthma,

（音频）（译员） 对咳嗽、哮喘、

支气管炎、肺部和 背部疼痛有好处。

bronchitis, the lungs and back pain.

(Audio) VG: And so you've harnessed that power

（音频）吉尔： 所以你们把糖浆的功效

in a syrup, in a medicine.

用在了药物中。

Can you tell me how it's made?

能告诉我怎么制作么？

You're shaking your head and smiling. (Laughter)

你在摇头、微笑。 （笑）

VG: Yeah, they're not up for sharing the centuries-old secret recipe.

（音频）吉尔：是的，她们不愿意 分享好几世纪传下来的秘密配方。

(Laughter)

（笑）

But the decline in the achoque

但安氏钝口螈的减少

actually nearly put a halt to that medicine production altogether,

实际上让这种药物的生产几乎停顿，

which is why the sisters started this.

这正是修女们采取措施的原因。

It's the world's first achoque farm.

这是世界上第一家钝口螈饲养场。

All they wanted was a healthy, sustainable population

她们需要健康、可持续的产量，

so that they could continue to make that medicine,

这样她们就可以 继续制造那种药物，

但她们同时也创造了

but what they created at the same time

一个针对极度濒危物种的 人工繁殖计划。

was a captive breeding program for a critically endangered species.

And fast forward a few years,

几年后，

and these scientists that you can see in this picture

各位在这张图里看到的 科学家们来自

from Chester Zoo all the way over the in UK,

英国切斯特动物园，

not far from where I live,

离我住的地方很近，

and from Michoacana University in Morelia in Mexico

以及墨西哥莫雷利亚的 米却卡纳大学，

have persuaded the sisters -- it took years of careful diplomacy --

他们用若干年精心培训的 外交手段说服了这些修女，

to join them in a research partnership.

与她们建立了研究伙伴关系。

So the nuns show the biologists

修女们给生物学家展示了

how you rear perfectly healthy, very robust Pátzcuaro achoques,

如何饲养出健康、健壮的 帕茨夸罗安氏钝口螈，

and the scientists have put some of their funding

科学家们把他们的一部分经费

into tanks, filters and pumps

投入在了这个奇怪，不协调，

in this strange, incongruous but amazing room.

但令人惊叹的房间里的 水箱、过滤器和水泵上。

This is the kind of partnership that can save a species.

这是一种能够 挽救一个物种的合作。

But I don't think I see enough of this sort of thing,

可是我觉得这样的事情还是太少，

and I have been ludicrously lucky in my job.

我的工作带给了我不少好运气。

I've traveled to loads of places and just basically followed around

我频繁到各地出差，基本是跟随

brilliant people who are trying to use science to answer big questions

那些试图利用科学来回答 重大问题和解决问题的

and solve problems.

才华横溢的人们。

I've hung out with scientists who have solved the mystery

我曾和通过追踪

of the origin of the menopause by tracking killer whales

北太平洋沿岸虎鲸 发现更年期起源奥秘的

off the north Pacific coast.

科学家们合作过。

And I've followed around scientists

我也曾跟随在南极企鹅领地

who've planted cameras in Antarctic penguin colonies,

安装相机，想要现场了解

because they were looking to capture the impacts of climate change

气候变化影响的那些科学家

到处跑。

as it happens.

But it's this team that really stuck with me,

但正是这个团队真正吸引住了我，

that really showed me the impact

向我展示了

that these delicate but really important relationships can have.

这些微妙而又非常重要的 关系所能产生的影响。

And I think the reason that it stuck with me as well

这个团队让我尤其难忘的原因

is because it's not common.

还在于它非同寻常。

And one of the reasons it's not common

而它为何与众不同，

is because our traditional approach

是因为我们采用的

of the hierarchical system of academic achievement

传统学术成就等级制方法

doesn't exactly encourage the type of humility

并不能完全鼓励科学家

where scientists will look to nonscientists

向非科学家求助

and really ask for their input.

这样谦虚的行为。

In fact, I think we have a bit of a tradition,

实际上我认为我们有某种传统，

especially in the West,

特别是在西方，

of a kind of academically blinkered hubris

存在一种学术上偏狭的傲慢，

that has kept science historically an enterprise for the elite.

这使得科学在历史上 一直是精英们的事业。

And I think although that's moved on,

虽然我认为这种情况已有所改进，

it continues to be its downfall on occasion.

但有时情况依然不容乐观。

So here's my example from history

我想通过一个历史上的例子

and my takedown of a scientific hero.

来表达我对科学英雄的不满。

Sir Ernest Shackleton

欧内斯特·沙克尔顿爵士

and his Trans-Antarctic Expedition more than a century ago,

和他一个世纪多之前的 “穿越南极”探险队，

the celebrated ill-fated adventure.

经历了一次著名的、 注定要失败的冒险。

On his way there,

在他去南极的路上，

Shackleton just didn't listen to the whalers in South Georgia.

沙克尔顿就是不听 南乔治亚岛捕鲸人的意见。

They knew that region, and they told him you won't get through the ice this year.

他们了解那一地区，告诉他 在当年无法穿过那片冰雪。

那年的冰雪分布太广， 一直深入到北面，太危险了。

It's too widespread, it's too far north, it's too dangerous.

And look what happened.

看看发生了什么。

I mean, granted, that great adventure,

没错，这是一个伟大的探险，

that story of heroic leadership that we still tell,

我们还在对英雄般的领导津津乐道，

where he saved every single one of his men,

他拯救了 整个队伍中的每一个人，

we wouldn't be telling that story if he'd just hightailed it for home

如果他听从劝告把队伍撤回

就没有这个故事可讲了。

and taken their advice.

But it cost him his ship,

但这让他损失了船，

I would imagine quite a lot of cold injuries among the team,

可以想象队伍中的很多人被冻伤，

出现了创伤后应激障碍，

a good few cases of PTSD

and Mrs. Chippy, the ship's cat, had to be shot

不得不射杀了船上 名叫奇皮女士的猫，

because the team couldn't afford any extra food as they fought to survive.

因为整个探险队的生存都成问题， 提供不了多余的食物。

Now, that was all a very long time ago,

这件事现在看起来已经年代久远，

but as I've prepared for this talk,

但我准备这个演讲的时候，

I've revisited some of the stories that I have covered,

重温了一些我报道过的事情，

where these really unusual collaborations made a real positive difference.

这些不同寻常的合作 确实产生了积极的影响。

So I spoke to former poachers

我和从前的偷猎者谈过，

whose knowledge of where they used to hunt illegally

他们对以往非法偷猎地方的经验

is now really important in conservation projects

对于同一地区的保护项目

in those same places.

非常重要。

And I spoke to an amazing artist

我也和一位杰出的艺术家聊过，

whose own experience of mental health struggles

他与自己心理健康问题斗争的经历

has actually paved the way for him to take a role in designing and creating

协助他参与了医院中一个 新的、充满创意且美观的

a new, really innovative and beautiful mental health ward in a hospital.

心理健康病房的设计和建造。

Most recently, I worked here, in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone,

最近，我在切尔诺贝利 禁区和已经在那工作了

with a team of scientists that have been working there for decades.

几十年的科学家们展开了合作。

他们的一项在该区域种植庄稼的项目

One of their experiments growing crops in that area

获得了这样的成果。

has now turned into this.

It's Chernobyl's first vodka.

这是切尔诺贝利的第一批伏特加。

(Laughter)

（笑）

It's pretty good, too! I've tasted it.

味道相当不错！我尝过了。

And this is actually, although it looks like a niche product,

这虽然看起来像是小众产品，

it's set to be the first consumer product to come out of the exclusion zone

但实际上它是 自核事故以来第一个

since the nuclear accident.

走出禁区的消费产品。

And that's actually the result of years of conversation

这实际上是与仍然生活在

with local communities who still live on the periphery of that abandoned land

那片荒地外围的当地社区 进行多年对话的结果，

and want to know when they can -- and if they can -- safely grow food

他们想知道何时——以及是否能够 ——安全地种植粮食，

and build businesses and rebuild their communities and their lives.

建立企业并重建社区和生活。

This was a product of humility,

这是一种谦虚听取

of listening,

意见而得来的产品。

and I saw that in spades when I visited Pátzcuaro.

我在访问帕茨夸罗时 见证了这种情形。

So I watched as a decades-experienced conservation biologist

我看到一位有几十年生态保护经历的 名叫赫拉尔多·加西亚的

called Gerardo Garcia

生物学家，

listened and watched super carefully

认真观看并听取了

as a nun in a full habit and wimple and latex gloves

穿着整套修女服， 带着橡胶手套的修女

showed him how, if you tap an achoque on the head really gently,

教他如何轻拍钝口螈的头部，

it'll open its mouth so you can quickly get a DNA swab with a Q-tip.

让它张开嘴巴，然后用棉签 迅速得到 DNA 拭子。

(Laughter)

（笑）

When scientists team up with, look to and defer to people

那些对自己的工作保有 真正有价值的观点的人，

who have a really valuable perspective on what they're trying to do

他们的人生观可能截然不同， 当科学家们与这些人合作、

but a totally different outlook,

审视并尊重他们的想法，

something really special can happen.

确实会发生一些特别的事情。

Now, there is a truly global and a very, very ambitious example of this

再讲一个真正全球性的、 雄心勃勃的例子，

called the International Panel on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services.

叫做国际生物多样性 和生态系统服务专家组。

Now, that is not a snappy title, but stick with me.

可能是个沉闷的题目， 但请听下去。

This organization includes more than 130 countries,

这个组织包括了 130 个国家，

and it's aiming to do nothing less than assess the state of the natural world

其目标是评估整个星球上

across our entire planet.

自然界的状况。

So it recently published this global assessment

它最近发布了有关自然状况的

on the state of nature,

全球评估报告，

and that could be the foundation for an international agreement

这可能是一项国际协议的基础，

where all of those nations could sign up to finally take action

所有这些国家都可以签署该协议，

to tackle the biodiversity crisis that's happening on planet Earth

最终采取行动来解决地球上 目前正在发生的

right now.

生物多样性危机。

Now, I know from trying to communicate, trying to report on reports like this,

我从尝试沟通、 尝试向大范围听众报道

on assessments like this for a broad audience,

类似的报告和评估了解到，

that these big international groups can seem so high-level

这类大型国际组织 看起来非常高高在上，

as to be kind of out of reach and nebulous,

似乎遥不可及、令人迷惑，

but there's a group of human beings at the center of them,

但在其中心有一群

报告的作者，

the report's authors,

who have this formidable task of bringing together

他们有着艰巨的任务，将所有

all of that biological and ecological information

生物和生态信息汇总在一起，

that paints a clear and accurate picture

从而清晰、准确地描绘

of the state of the natural world.

自然世界的状况。

And 10 years before this panel even set out to do that,

甚至在该小组着手进行 这项工作的十年前，

to put that assessment together,

为了将评估结果放在一起，

they created what's called a "cultural concept framework."

他们创建了所谓的 “文化概念框架”。

This is essentially a cultural concept translation dictionary

从本质上讲，这是一本 文化概念翻译词典，

for all of the different ways that we talk about the natural world.

适用于我们谈论自然世界的 所有不同表达方式。

So it formally recognizes, for example,

例如，它正式认可，

that "Mother Earth" and "nature" means the same thing.

“地球母亲”和“自然”是同一个意思。

And what that means is that Indigenous and local knowledge

这意味着可以将土著和地方性的知识

can be brought into the same document

纳入同一文档，

and given the weight and merit that it deserves

并赋予其对我们的自然环境

in that assessment of what state our natural environment is in.

所处状态的评估应具有的 权重和价值。

And that is absolutely critical,

这绝对至关重要，

because an Inuit hunter might never publish in an academic journal,

因为一个因纽特人猎人可能永远 不会在学术期刊上发表文章，

but I'll bet you she knows more about the changes to her home Arctic community

但我敢打赌，比起一个 花了很多年往返于北极地区

because of climate change

进行测量的科学家，

than a scientist who spent many years going to and from that region

她更了解自己的家乡 北极圈因气候变化

taking measurements.

而发生的改变。

And collectively, Indigenous people are the caretakers

总的来说，土著人民是全球

of an estimated 25 percent of the entire global land surface,

约 25% 陆地表面的看护者，

including some of the most biodiverse places on the planet.

包括地球上一些生物多样性 最丰富的地方。

So imagine how much we're missing

所以想象一下，如果我们

if we don't cross those cultural boundaries,

在弄清楚世界如何运作

or at least try to,

和如何保护它的时候，

when we're trying to figure out how the world works

不跨越这些文化界限， 或至少试图这样做，

and how to protect it.

我们会有多大的错失。

Every single research proposal is a new opportunity to do exactly that.

每一份科研基金申请书 都有这样做的新机会。

So what if, every time a research project was proposed,

那么，如果每次 提出一个研究项目时，

it had to include a suggestion of a person or a group of people --

都必须包括科研人员想合作的 一个人或一群人的建议，

local farmers, Indigenous community leaders, nuns --

如当地农民、土著社区领袖、修女等，

that researchers wanted to bring into the fold,

邀请他们加入研究队伍， 并听取他们的意见，

invite into their team and listen to?

那会怎么样呢？

I just want to let Sister Ofelia give her view

我想让奥菲莉亚修女对她为何

of why she is so particularly driven and dedicated

如此热情地致力于钝口螈的生存

to the survival of the achoque.

提出看法。

(Audio) VG: Sister Ofelia, do you think that saving this species from extinction,

（音频）吉尔：奥菲莉亚修女， 你认为拯救濒危物种，

is that part of your work for God?

是侍奉上帝工作的一部分么？

(Audio) SO: (speaks in Spanish)

（音频）奥菲莉亚： （西班牙语）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) It's the responsibility

（音频）（译员） 每个人

都有责任不伤害

of every human being

我们周围的生物。

not to harm those who live around us.

That's all living things.

那都是生命。

We're all created not only just to survive but to be happy and to make others happy.

我们所有的人不是为了生存而生， 而是为幸福及令他人幸福而生。

All of us here are providing happiness by protecting this animal,

我们这里的所有人都在保护 这种动物，让他人感到幸福，

and we're also making Him happy.

我们让上帝也感到高兴。

(Audio) (Nuns singing)

（音频）（修女们唱歌）

VG: I feel like I should sort of slink off and let the nuns sing me out,

吉尔：我感觉我应该走开了， 让修女们的歌声送我退场，

because it sounds so lovely.

因为那太好听了。

But did you hear that?

可是大家听到了么？

"We're providing happiness."

“我们提供快乐。”

Now, that's not a protocol you'd ever see outlined

在任何正式的研究项目申请书里，

in any formal research project proposal --

都不会有这样的协定——

(Laughter)

（笑）

but it's the impetus behind what's become the most successful breeding program

但这正是这个濒临灭绝的动物

in the world

在世界上

of an animal that was on the very brink of being wiped out.

最成功的繁殖计划背后的动力。

And isn't that just wonderful?

难道不是非常美妙吗？

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）