What a nun can teach a scientist about ecology | Victoria Gill

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Lo Hsien Huang

OK, I would like to introduce all of you beautiful, curious-minded people

我想向在座出色又好奇的觀眾

介紹世界上我最喜歡的動物。

to my favorite animal in the world.

This is the Peter Pan of the amphibian world.

這是兩棲動物世界中的彼得潘。

It's an axolotl.

牠是美西螈。

It's a type of salamander,

牠是一種蠑螈，

but it never fully grows up and climbs out of the water

但牠不會像其他蠑螈那樣，

like other salamanders do.

完全長成之後從水中爬出來。

And this little guy has X-Man-style powers, right?

這個小傢伙具有 X 戰警般的能力。

So if it loses any limb,

如果牠失去肢體，

it can just completely regenerate.

完全可以再生回來。

It's amazing.

很不可思議。

And, I mean, look at it -- it's got a face with a permanent smile.

看看牠——牠臉上 永遠掛著的微笑。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）周圍是羽狀鰓。

It's framed by feathery gills.

It's just ... how could you not love that?

你怎麼能不愛牠呢？

This particular type of axolotl, a very close relative,

這是特種美西螈，是很近的親戚，

is known as an achoque.

即一般所知的安氏鈍口螈， 也同樣可愛。

It is equally as cute,

and it lives in just one place in a lake in the north of Mexico.

牠只生活在一個地方，

墨西哥北部的一個湖泊中。

It's called Lake Pátzcuaro,

叫做帕茨夸羅湖，

and as you can see,

各位可以看見，

it is stunningly beautiful.

它美得驚人。

But unfortunately, it's been so overfished and so badly polluted

但，很不幸的是，這個湖泊 被過度捕撈且嚴重污染，

that the achoque is dying out altogether.

導致安氏鈍口螈也跟著消失。

And this is something that's a scenario that's playing out all over the world.

這個情況在世界各地都可以看見。

We're living through an extinction crisis,

我們正在經歷絕種危機，

and species are particularly vulnerable when they're evolutionarily tailored

有些物種經過演化之後 變得特別脆弱，

to just one little niche or maybe one lake.

只適合特定環境，或是某一個湖泊。

But this is TED, right?

但這裡是 TED，對吧？

So this is where I give you the big idea, the big solution.

我應該要在這裡提出 偉大的想法、解決方案。

So how do you save one special weird species from going extinct?

要如何拯救特別奇怪的物種， 讓牠們不會絕種？

Well, the answer, at least my answer,

答案，至少是我的答案，

isn't a grand technological intervention.

並不是什麼重大的技術干預， 答案反而很簡單。

It's actually really simple.

It's that you find people who know all about this animal

就是去找了解這些動物的人，

and you ask them and you listen to them

去請教他們，並聆聽他們，

and you work with them, if they're up for that.

如果他們願意，再和他們合作。

So I want to tell you about how I've seen that in science,

我想要跟大家談談我如何在科學中，

特別是在保育方面，我了解到

and in conservation in particular,

if scientists don't team up with local people

若科學家不懂得與當地人合作，

who have really valuable knowledge

當地人具有珍貴知識

but a practical wisdom that's not going to be published in any academic journal,

以及實用但不會刊載 在學術期刊中的智慧，

they can really miss the point.

不和他們合作就是搞錯了重點。

Scientists and science as an enterprise can fall at the first hurdle

科學家和科學這個事業， 如果太急躁相信只有專家最懂，

if it rushes in knowing that it's the experts that know best.

可能就犯了第一個錯誤。

But when scientists shake off those academic constraints

但，當科學家擺脫那些學術限制，

and really look to people who have a totally different

能夠真正去注意那些

對於他們試圖做的事情具有 完全不同卻很重要的觀點的人，

but really important perspective on what they're trying to do,

那就能真的拯救世界，

it can genuinely save the world,

one wonderfully weird amphibian at a time.

一次拯救一種美好 又奇妙的兩棲動物。

So, in the case of the achoque,

就安氏鈍口螈的例子來說，

these are the people you need on your team.

你的團隊需要這些人。（笑聲）

(Laughter)

These are the Sisters of the Immaculate Health.

她們是無暇健康聖女會的修女。

They are nuns who have a convent in Pátzcuaro, they live in Pátzcuaro,

這些修女在帕茨夸羅有一間 女修道院，她們住在帕茨夸羅，

and they have a shared history with the achoque.

她們和安氏鈍口螈有共同的歷史。

And it is so mind-bogglingly wonderful

這實在美好到讓人驚訝，

that it drew me all the way there to make an audio documentary about them,

因而吸引我一路到那裡去 製作了關於她們的紀實錄音，

and I even have the unflattering selfie

我甚至有張有損形象的 自拍照可以證明。

to prove it.

There is a room at the center of their convent, though,

不過，在她們的修道院 中央有一間房間，

that looks like this.

看起來像這樣，非常奇特。

It's very strange.

裡面有許多水缸，裝滿淡水，

It's lined with all these tanks full of fresh water

and hundreds of achoques.

還有數百隻安氏鈍口螈。

And that's because this creature, because of its regenerative abilities,

那是因為，這種生物的再生能力，

it's believed has healing powers if you consume it.

她們相信如果吃下 這些動物就會有療癒力。

So the sisters actually make and sell a medicine using achoques.

所以，修女真的會用 安氏鈍口螈來製藥並販售。

I bought a bottle of it.

我買了一瓶。

So this is it.

就是它。

It tastes a bit like honey,

嚐起來有點像是蜂蜜，

but the sisters reckon it is good

但修女們認為它對於各種

for all kinds of particularly respiratory ailments.

呼吸相關疾病都有很好的效果。

So I just want you to have a listen, if you will, to a clip of Sister Ofelia.

我想請大家聽聽 歐菲莉亞修女的一段錄音。

(Audio) Sister Ofelia: (speaks in Spanish)

（錄音）歐菲莉亞修女： （說西班牙語）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) Our convent was founded by Dominican nuns

（錄音）（口譯員） 我們的女修道院是多明尼加修女

於 1747 年在帕茨夸羅成立的。

here in Pátzcuaro in 1747.

Sometime after that,

在那之後，

our sisters started to make the achoque syrup.

我們的姐妹便開始製作 安氏鈍口螈糖漿。

We didn't discover the properties of the achoque.

安氏鈍口螈的特性 並不是我們發現的。

That was the original people from around here, since ancient times.

古早時，原本住在這裡的人發現的。

But we then started to make the syrup, too.

但後來我們也開始製作糖漿。

The locals knew that,

當地人知道這件事， 便把他們的動物帶來給我們。

and they came to offer us the animals.

(Audio) Victoria Gill: I see.

（錄音）講者：了解。

所以安氏鈍口螈 是糖漿製作的一部分。

So the achoques are part of making that syrup.

What does the syrup treat, and what is it for?

糖漿能治療什麼？用途是什麼？

(Audio) SO: (speaks in Spanish)

（錄音）修女：（說西班牙語）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) It's good for coughs, asthma,

（錄音）（口譯員） 它對於咳嗽、氣端、

支氣管炎、肺部，和背痛都很好。

bronchitis, the lungs and back pain.

(Audio) VG: And so you've harnessed that power

（錄音）講者：所以你把那種力量

in a syrup, in a medicine.

用在糖漿中，用在藥中。

Can you tell me how it's made?

你能告訴我它是怎麼製成的嗎？

You're shaking your head and smiling. (Laughter)

你在微笑搖頭。（笑聲）

VG: Yeah, they're not up for sharing the centuries-old secret recipe.

講者：是的，她們不想分享 有幾世紀歷史的秘方。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But the decline in the achoque

但安氏鈍口螈的減少

actually nearly put a halt to that medicine production altogether,

幾乎讓那種藥物的生產都停滯了，

which is why the sisters started this.

那就是為什麼這些修女建造了這個。

It's the world's first achoque farm.

這是世界上第一座 安氏鈍口螈養育場。

All they wanted was a healthy, sustainable population

她們希望能有健康、永續的物種數量

so that they could continue to make that medicine,

讓她們能夠持續製藥，

但她們同時也為瀕臨絕種的動物

but what they created at the same time

was a captive breeding program for a critically endangered species.

創造了一種圈養繁殖計畫。

And fast forward a few years,

快轉幾年的時間，

and these scientists that you can see in this picture

在這張照片中的這些科學家

from Chester Zoo all the way over the in UK,

遠從英國切斯特動物園過來， 那裡離我家不遠，

not far from where I live,

and from Michoacana University in Morelia in Mexico

也有人來自墨西哥 莫雷利亞的米卻肯大學，

have persuaded the sisters -- it took years of careful diplomacy --

他們說服了修女—— 花了數年謹慎的外交手腕——

to join them in a research partnership.

加入他們，在研究上合作。

So the nuns show the biologists

於是，修女告訴生物學家

how you rear perfectly healthy, very robust Pátzcuaro achoques,

要如何養育非常健康、 強健的帕茨夸羅安氏鈍口螈，

and the scientists have put some of their funding

科學家則把一些資金投入，

into tanks, filters and pumps

在這個奇特、突兀、 卻又很了不起的房間中

in this strange, incongruous but amazing room.

建置水缸、過濾器、幫浦。

This is the kind of partnership that can save a species.

正是這種合作，能夠拯救物種。

But I don't think I see enough of this sort of thing,

但我覺得像這樣的事情 我看到的還不夠多，

and I have been ludicrously lucky in my job.

但在工作上算是相當幸運。

I've traveled to loads of places and just basically followed around

我去過很多地方，基本上就是

跟著很出色的人到處跑，看他們試圖

brilliant people who are trying to use science to answer big questions

用科學來回答大哉問及解決問題。

and solve problems.

I've hung out with scientists who have solved the mystery

我曾經跟隨過一些科學家， 他們能夠解開更年期起源之謎，

of the origin of the menopause by tracking killer whales

做法是追蹤北太平洋海岸的虎鯨。

off the north Pacific coast.

And I've followed around scientists

我也跟隨過一些科學家，

who've planted cameras in Antarctic penguin colonies,

他們把攝影機設在 南極企鵝聚居地，

because they were looking to capture the impacts of climate change

因為他們希望能夠捕捉到

氣候變遷造成的影響。

as it happens.

But it's this team that really stuck with me,

但，這個團隊真的讓我很難忘，

that really showed me the impact

他們真的讓我看到

that these delicate but really important relationships can have.

這些微妙但非常重要的關係 能夠產生什麼影響。

And I think the reason that it stuck with me as well

我想，我難忘的另一個原因 也是因為它很不常見。

is because it's not common.

And one of the reasons it's not common

而它很不常見的原因之一

is because our traditional approach

是我們傳統的學術成就

of the hierarchical system of academic achievement

等級分制的方法

doesn't exactly encourage the type of humility

並不鼓勵這種謙遜態度，

where scientists will look to nonscientists

也就是科學家去找非科學家，

and really ask for their input.

並真正邀請他們協助。

In fact, I think we have a bit of a tradition,

事實上，我想特別是在西方， 我們有一種傳統，

especially in the West,

of a kind of academically blinkered hubris

就是在學術上有著 目光偏狹的傲慢，

that has kept science historically an enterprise for the elite.

讓歷史上的科學 一直都是精英專屬。

And I think although that's moved on,

我想，雖然那已經是過去了，

it continues to be its downfall on occasion.

但，偶爾還是會有這樣的問題。

So here's my example from history

所以，以下我舉歷史事件作為例子，

and my takedown of a scientific hero.

也是我對一位科學英雄的評論。

Sir Ernest Shackleton

歐內斯特‧沙克爾頓爵士

and his Trans-Antarctic Expedition more than a century ago,

還有他在一世紀前所做的南極探險，

the celebrated ill-fated adventure.

著名的不祥冒險。

On his way there,

在前往途中，

Shackleton just didn't listen to the whalers in South Georgia.

沙克爾頓就是不肯聽 南喬治亞的捕鯨者。

They knew that region, and they told him you won't get through the ice this year.

他們熟知那個區域，告訴他 今年不可能穿過那些冰。

它太廣大了， 太北邊了，太危險了。

It's too widespread, it's too far north, it's too dangerous.

And look what happened.

看看結果如何。

I mean, granted, that great adventure,

沒錯，那是偉大的冒險，

that story of heroic leadership that we still tell,

我們仍然會訴說 這個英勇領導的故事，

where he saved every single one of his men,

在故事中，他拯救了每一位手下，

we wouldn't be telling that story if he'd just hightailed it for home

如果他聽了捕鯨者的意見就撤退， 就不會有人說這個故事了。

and taken their advice.

But it cost him his ship,

但，代價是他的船， 可以想像有很多隊員凍傷，

I would imagine quite a lot of cold injuries among the team,

少數人有創傷後壓力症候群，

a good few cases of PTSD

and Mrs. Chippy, the ship's cat, had to be shot

且必須要射殺船上的貓，奇皮太太，

because the team couldn't afford any extra food as they fought to survive.

因為團隊在努力求生存的情況下 沒有多餘的食物可以給牠。

Now, that was all a very long time ago,

那是非常久以前，

but as I've prepared for this talk,

但，當我準備這場演說時，

I've revisited some of the stories that I have covered,

我重溫了我報導的其中一些故事，

where these really unusual collaborations made a real positive difference.

這些不常見的合作 確實造成了正面的改變。

So I spoke to former poachers

所以，我和當過盜獵者的人談過，

whose knowledge of where they used to hunt illegally

他們對於過去在哪裡 可以非法打獵的知識，

is now really important in conservation projects

現在對於那些地方的保育計畫

in those same places.

是非常重要的。

And I spoke to an amazing artist

我也和一位了不起的藝術家談過，

whose own experience of mental health struggles

他自己在心理健康方面掙扎的經歷

has actually paved the way for him to take a role in designing and creating

其實為他舖好了路， 讓他能夠參與設計和創造

a new, really innovative and beautiful mental health ward in a hospital.

醫院中一間相當創新、 美麗的心理健康病房。

Most recently, I worked here, in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone,

最近，我在車諾比 強制疏散區這裡工作，

with a team of scientists that have been working there for decades.

與在那裡數十年的科學家團隊合作。

他們在那個地區做的 其中一個作物種植實驗

One of their experiments growing crops in that area

has now turned into this.

現在變成了這個。

It's Chernobyl's first vodka.

這是車諾比的第一瓶伏特加。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's pretty good, too! I've tasted it.

它也很好喝！我嚐過。

And this is actually, although it looks like a niche product,

雖然它看起來像是個特定產品，

it's set to be the first consumer product to come out of the exclusion zone

它成了核電廠意外後從強制疏散區

產出的第一個消費性產品。

since the nuclear accident.

And that's actually the result of years of conversation

會有這個結果，是花了數年時間

與仍住在這片廢棄土地 邊緣的當地社區對談，

with local communities who still live on the periphery of that abandoned land

and want to know when they can -- and if they can -- safely grow food

並且想要知道他們何時能—— 以及是否能——安全地種植食物

and build businesses and rebuild their communities and their lives.

並建立企業、重建 他們的社區和生活。

This was a product of humility,

這是謙遜和聆聽的產物，

of listening,

and I saw that in spades when I visited Pátzcuaro.

而我在造訪帕茨夸羅時 就看到很多這種情況。

So I watched as a decades-experienced conservation biologist

我看著一位有數十年經驗的

保育生物學家赫拉多‧加西亞

called Gerardo Garcia

listened and watched super carefully

非常仔細地聆聽和觀看

as a nun in a full habit and wimple and latex gloves

一名穿著長袍、包頭巾、 戴著乳膠手套的修女

showed him how, if you tap an achoque on the head really gently,

示範給他看， 輕拍安氏鈍口螈的頭，

it'll open its mouth so you can quickly get a DNA swab with a Q-tip.

牠就會張開口，此時可以 用棉花棒快速採集 DNA 。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

When scientists team up with, look to and defer to people

當科學家結合、徵詢、聽從那些

who have a really valuable perspective on what they're trying to do

對於他們的工作任務 具有可貴觀點、

卻有完全不同看法的人，

but a totally different outlook,

something really special can happen.

那麼可能會有很特別的事發生。

Now, there is a truly global and a very, very ambitious example of this

有一個全球性且目標遠大的例子是：

called the International Panel on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services.

「生物多樣性與生態系統服務國際平台」。

Now, that is not a snappy title, but stick with me.

這名稱不是很動聽，但請聽我說。

This organization includes more than 130 countries,

這個組織包含超過 一百三十個國家，

and it's aiming to do nothing less than assess the state of the natural world

它的目標是要評估整個地球上

across our entire planet.

大自然世界的狀態。

So it recently published this global assessment

它近期發佈了一篇 全球大自然狀態的評估，

on the state of nature,

and that could be the foundation for an international agreement

能夠以它為基礎來建立國際協議，

讓所有這些國家簽署，採取行動

where all of those nations could sign up to finally take action

to tackle the biodiversity crisis that's happening on planet Earth

來處理地球上現在正在 發生的生物多樣性危機。

right now.

Now, I know from trying to communicate, trying to report on reports like this,

根據過去試圖溝通、 試圖向廣大觀眾群

報導這類評估報告的經歷，

on assessments like this for a broad audience,

that these big international groups can seem so high-level

我知道這些大型國際團體 可能看似很高遠，

as to be kind of out of reach and nebulous,

有點像是無法觸及的 遠方模糊影像，

but there's a group of human beings at the center of them,

但在這些團體的中心， 是一群人類，報告的作者，

the report's authors,

who have this formidable task of bringing together

他們要執行這個困難任務 把所有生物和生態資訊整合，

all of that biological and ecological information

that paints a clear and accurate picture

清楚、正確地整理出 大自然世界狀態的樣貌。

of the state of the natural world.

And 10 years before this panel even set out to do that,

在該平台決定要做 這種整合評估的十年前，

to put that assessment together,

they created what's called a "cultural concept framework."

他們就創造了所謂的 「文化概念框架」。

This is essentially a cultural concept translation dictionary

基本上，它就是 文化概念的翻譯字典，

for all of the different ways that we talk about the natural world.

內容是我們談論大自然的各種方式。

So it formally recognizes, for example,

比如，它正式承認

that "Mother Earth" and "nature" means the same thing.

「孕育萬物的大地」 和「大自然」意思相同。

And what that means is that Indigenous and local knowledge

那就意味著，當地原生的知識 可以被放入同樣的文件中，

can be brought into the same document

and given the weight and merit that it deserves

並在關於自然環境狀態的評估報告中

in that assessment of what state our natural environment is in.

得到它應得的重視和功勞。

And that is absolutely critical,

那是非常重要的，

because an Inuit hunter might never publish in an academic journal,

因為因紐特獵人可能永遠不會 在學術期刊中刊登文章，

but I'll bet you she knows more about the changes to her home Arctic community

但我敢打包票，關於氣候變遷

對她在北極部落的家 造成什麼改變，

because of climate change

than a scientist who spent many years going to and from that region

她會比花上數年來回前往那個區域

做測量的科學家知道更多。

taking measurements.

And collectively, Indigenous people are the caretakers

總體來說，估計全球陸地表面

of an estimated 25 percent of the entire global land surface,

有大約 25% 都是由原住民在照顧，

including some of the most biodiverse places on the planet.

包括地球上一些 生物多樣性最高的地方。

So imagine how much we're missing

所以，想像一下，如果我們 不去跨越或至少嘗試跨越

if we don't cross those cultural boundaries,

那些文化界線，我們會錯失多少

or at least try to,

when we're trying to figure out how the world works

能協助我們了解世界如何運作 及如何保護它的資訊。

and how to protect it.

Every single research proposal is a new opportunity to do exactly that.

每一個研究提案都是 一個執行的新機會。

So what if, every time a research project was proposed,

所以，想想這樣會如何： 當研究計畫被提出來時，

it had to include a suggestion of a person or a group of people --

它就必須要納入一個人 或一群人的建議——

local farmers, Indigenous community leaders, nuns --

當地的農夫、原住民 部落領導人、修女——

that researchers wanted to bring into the fold,

都是研究者想要收編的人，

invite into their team and listen to?

想要邀請他們加入團隊 並聆聽他們的意見。

I just want to let Sister Ofelia give her view

我想讓奧菲莉亞修女 來分享她的看法，

of why she is so particularly driven and dedicated

說明她為什麼特別想要投入

to the survival of the achoque.

保護安氏鈍口螈的生存。

(Audio) VG: Sister Ofelia, do you think that saving this species from extinction,

（錄音）講者：奧菲莉亞修女， 你認為拯救這個物種不讓牠們絕種

is that part of your work for God?

是你為神所做的部分工作嗎？

(Audio) SO: (speaks in Spanish)

（錄音）修女：（說西班牙語）

(Audio) (Interpreter voice-over) It's the responsibility

（錄音）（口譯員） 人人都有責任

of every human being

不要去傷害我們周遭的生物。

not to harm those who live around us.

That's all living things.

也就是所有的生物。

We're all created not only just to survive but to be happy and to make others happy.

我們被創造出來，不只是要生存，

也要快樂，並讓萬物快樂。

All of us here are providing happiness by protecting this animal,

我們這裡所有人都透過 保護這種動物來提供快樂，

and we're also making Him happy.

我們也讓神快樂。

(Audio) (Nuns singing)

（錄音）（修女唱歌）

VG: I feel like I should sort of slink off and let the nuns sing me out,

講者：我覺得我應該早點下台， 在修女的歌聲中退場，

because it sounds so lovely.

因為她們唱得真好。

But did you hear that?

但，你們聽見了嗎？ 「我們在提供快樂。」

"We're providing happiness."

Now, that's not a protocol you'd ever see outlined

你不會在任何正式的 研究計畫提案中

in any formal research project proposal --

看到這樣的協定——

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

but it's the impetus behind what's become the most successful breeding program

但它是一股幕後的推動力， 促成了後來世界上

in the world

針對瀕臨絕種的動物 最成功的繁殖計畫。

of an animal that was on the very brink of being wiped out.

And isn't that just wonderful?

那很棒，不是嗎？

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）