The crisis of leadership — and a new way forward | Halla Tómasdóttir and Bryn Freedman

Translator: Leslie Gauthier Reviewer: Krystian Aparta

翻译人员: Yizhuo He 校对人员: Yolanda Zhang

Bryn Freedman: So you keep talking about leadership

布林·弗里德曼（BF）： 您一直说领导力

as a real crisis of conformity.

是真正的遵从危机。

Can you explain to us what you mean by that?

能给大家解释一下是什么意思吗？

What do you see as a crisis of conformity?

您认为怎么样才算是遵从危机？

Halla Tómasdóttir: I think it's a crisis of conformity

海拉·汤马斯多特（HT）： 我认为以下情况就是一种遵从危机：

when we continue to do business and lead in the way we always have,

当我们一直继续按照 我们平时的方式来做生意和领导别人，

yet the evidence is overwhelming

但已经有不可忽视的事实指出

that the world needs us to change our ways.

这个世界需要我们改变我们做事的方式。

So let's look a little bit at that evidence.

让我们来看下一部分事实。

Science has told us that we're facing a climate crisis,

科学告诫我们 我们正面临着气候危机，

yet 40 percent of board directors

然而有四成的董事会董事

don't think climate belongs in the boardroom.

却并不认为气候问题应该出现在会议室。

And we have kids marching in the streets now,

现在有孩子在街上示威游行，

asking us to be accountable for their future.

要求我们为他们的未来负责。

We have a crisis of inequality.

我们面临着不平等危机。

现在不只在法国的街头有“黄背心”，

We have Yellow Jackets not just in the streets of France,

but all over the world,

全世界都存在，

and yet we continue to see examples

但我们仍然可以看见有企业

of businesses and other leaders fueling that anger.

和其他领导人为那些怒火火上浇油。

BF: Do you think the pitchforks are coming?

BF：您认为“干草叉”（指法国大革命中 人民起义时所持武器）会到来吗？

HT: I definitely think this is not sustainable.

HT：我认为这肯定是不可持续的。

And the reason why it's so difficult

而且我们之所以很难对付

for us to deal with these complicated crises that are interrelated

这些互相关联的危机，

is that we are at the lowest levels of trust we've ever been at.

是因为我们正处于互相信任的最低点。

In the UK, three percent of people trust their government

在英国，只有3%的民众信任政府

to solve the Brexit crisis,

能处理好脱欧危机，

and that was in December.

那还只是十二月份的数字。

I think it's probably gone down since then.

我认为这个数字可能已经变得更低了。

BF: What do you think new leadership actually looks like?

BF：您认为新的领导力 应该是什么样的？

HT：我们需要勇敢的领导人，

HT: We need courageous leaders,

yet they have to be humble.

但他们也必须要谦逊。

And they have to be guided by a moral compass,

而且他们必须是被道德标准所指引着的，

and the moral compass is the combination of having a social purpose --

这个道德标准包括 有一个社会目标——

you can't have your license to operate anymore

如果你没有为社会做出贡献的目标，

without a purpose that contributes to society,

你就不能继续持有经营执照，

but what, to me, has been missing from that dialogue is a set of principles.

但对我而言，在意见交流中 所缺乏的是一组原则。

We cannot just define why we exist,

我们不能仅定义我们为何存在，

we have to define how we're going to do business

我们必须定义我们未来要怎样做生意，

and how we're going to lead.

怎样去领导。

And to us, that has to be to solve these imminent crises:

对我们来说，这意味着我们要去 解决这些迫切的危机：

the climate crisis,

气候危机，

the crisis of inequality

不平等危机，

和信任危机。

and the crisis of trust.

So at The B Team,

所以，在“B 团队”，

我们很乐于将可持续性，平等， 及可靠性来作为我们的原则。

we embrace sustainability, equality and accountability as our principles.

BF: Do you think this whole question of purpose is really window dressing --

BF：您认为这一整个关于目的的问题 是否只是为了粉饰太平？

they're saying what they think people want to hear,

他们只是说出了他们认为大众想听的话，

but they're actually not making the fundamental changes

但实际上却并没有做出实质性的，

that are necessary?

有必要的改变？

HT: A lot of people feel that way,

HT：很多人都这么觉得，

and I think there's a growing momentum behind that.

我认为在那背后 有更强大的推动力在作祟。

所以我认为现在的世界 正在召集负责任的领导，

So I think the world is calling for responsible leadership now,

and any leader who wants to be around for the 21st century

任何想在21世纪继续领导的人，

really needs to start thinking courageously and holistically

都必须得要开始做勇敢，全面的思考，

how they're going to be part of the solution

想想他们到底要如何成为 问题解决方案的一部分，

and not window-dress anymore.

而不只是继续粉饰太平。

You have to do it for real now.

现在真的得要认真的考虑这些了。

BF: Do you see anybody out there who's doing it

BF：您有没有见过 任何人正在做这些事？

in a way that you think is actually effective

按照您认为有效的方式，

and has a real, long-term impact?

并具有切实而长期的影响？

HT: Fortunately, we have some great leaders out there.

HT：幸运的是，我们的确 有些杰出的领导人。

And just to give one example,

举个例子，

Emmanuel Faber, who's one of the newest members of The B Team,

范易谋（伊曼纽尔·法伯）， B团队最新加入的成员之一，

he's the CEO of Danone,

也是达能的首席执行官，

the world's largest yogurt-maker and major food company --

世界上最大的酸奶制造商 和主要的食品公司——

a real global company.

一家真正的环球公司。

He's so committed to sustainability

他致力于可持续发展，

that he's not only changing the ways of his own business,

不仅改变了自己做生意的方式，

but his entire supply chain.

还改变了整个供应链。

He's so committed to equality that when he took on as CEO

他也致力于平等， 当他担任首席执行官时，

and he said gender balance matters,

他就说性别平衡很重要，

he created a gender-balanced executive team

他创造了一个性别平衡的领导团队，

and gave men and women equal maternity and paternity leave.

并给予男性与女性平等的产假。

He's so committed to accountability

他也致力于承担责任，

that he turned his US operations into a B Corporation.

将自己的在美国的事业转变成了B企业。

Now many of you may not know what that is,

许多人可能并不知道B企业是什么。

but that's a company that holds itself responsible

那是一家不仅谋求利润，

for not just profit but its impact on people and the planet,

还为其对人和地球造成的 影响负责的企业，

and transparently reports on their performance on all of that.

并提供透明公开的报告来说明 他们在所有这些方面的表现。

It's the largest B Corp in the world.

这是世界上最大的一家B企业。

So to me, that's holistic, courageous leadership,

所以对我来说， 那是全面，有勇气的领导力，

and it's really the vision we all need to hold.

也是我们都需要拥有的愿景。

BF: Is this "Back to the Future"?

BF：这是《回到未来》吗？

I mean, I wonder, when I think about companies --

我的意思是，我想知道， 当我想到那些公司——

Anheuser-Busch comes to mind in America --

脑海中出现了美国的 安海斯-布希公司——

a 100-year-old company that invested in its community,

一家拥有一百多年历史的企业， 投资他自己的社区，

that gave a living wage

在一切都结束之前（赔钱，并被卖出），

before it ended up, you know, losing and getting sold.

仍然发给员工维生的工资。

Are we really looking now for companies that are global and community citizens,

我们现在真的在寻找这种 既全球化又是社区公民的公司，

or is that something that is not even useful anymore?

还是这些甚至都已经不管用了？

HT: Well, you can do this for the reason that it's risky, actually,

HT：其实你可以因为 风险太高的原因

to continue without doing the right thing now.

继续不做“正确”的事情。

You can't attract the right talent,

你就吸引不到合适的人才，

you can't attract customers

吸引不到顾客，

and increasingly, you won't be able to attract capital.

渐渐地，你也吸引不到资金。

You might do it for risk reasons,

你可能会为了高风险的原因来做这件事，

you might do it for business opportunity reasons,

也可能是为了商业机遇的原因。

because this is where the growth is,

因为成长就来源于此，

which is why many leaders are doing the right thing.

这也就是为什么很多 领导人都在做正确的事。

But at the end of the day,

但到最后，

we need to ask ourselves:

我们需要扪心自问：

"Who are we holding ourselves accountable for?"

“我们在对谁负责任？”

如果那指的不是下一代人的话，

And if that isn't the next generation,

I don't know who.

我也不知道还能是谁了。

So I want to just make very clear,

所以，我只想说清楚，

because we tend to think about leadership

因为通常当我们想到领导力这个词的时候，

as only those who sit in positions of power.

我们只会想到那些坐拥权力的人。

To me, leadership is not at all like that.

但对我来说，领导力完全不是那样的。

There's a leader inside every single one of us,

我们每个人心中都有一个领导人，

and our most important work in life is to release that leader.

并且我们一生中最重要的工作 就是去释放那位领导人。

And I think one of the greatest global examples we have

我认为全世界范围内 一个最伟大的例子

of someone who didn't --

没有权力的人——

no one gave her power --

没有任何人给她权力——

is the 16-year-old girl called Greta Thunberg.

那是一个16岁的女孩， 名叫格蕾塔·桑伯格。

She's from Sweden,

她来自瑞典，

and a few years ago, she really became --

几年前，她成为了真正的——

she has Asperger's,

她患有亚斯伯格综合征，

and she became passionate about our climate crisis --

她变得对气候危机充满激情——

了解了关于它的一切。

learned everything about it.

And faced with the evidence,

面对那些事实，

she just felt so disappointed in her leadership

她感到对自己的“领导力”非常失望，

that she started striking in front of the Swedish parliament.

由此，她开始在瑞典议会前 举行抗议活动。

And now she has started a global movement,

现在她已经发起了一项全球运动，

and hundreds and thousands of school kids are out in the streets

成百上千的学生走上了街头，

asking us to hold ourselves accountable for their future.

要求我们对他们的未来负起责任。

No one gave her that authority,

没有人给予她那些权力，

and she now speaks to the leaders of the world, heads of state,

现在她能与全世界 各个国家的领导人对话，

and really is impacting the world.

并真正的影响着世界。

So I really think that when we think about leadership today,

所以我真的认为如今 我们谈论起领导力时，

it can't be defined to those in positions of power

它不能被定义成坐拥权力的那些人，

though they have disproportionately greater responsibility.

尽管他们负担着大得多的责任。

But all of us need to think about,

但我们所有人都应该想想，

"What am I doing?"

“我在做什么？”

"How am I contributing?"

“我在如何贡献？”

我们得放出内心的领导人，

And we need to release that leader inside

and actually start making the positive impact

并真正开始造成这个世界

this world is calling for right now.

所需要的影响。

BF: But we have such hierarchical leadership.

BF：但我们现在的领导力是阶层式的。

I mean, I understand what you're saying --

我的意思是，我理解您说的——

it's nice to release the leader inside --

释放内心中的领导人是很好——

but in these corporations,

但在这些企业中，

the truth is, it's extremely hierarchical.

事实是，他们非常重阶级。

What can companies do

公司能做些什么

to create less vertical and more horizontal relationships?

才能创造更扁平而非垂直的同事关系？

HT: Well, I'm a big believer and I've long been passionate

HT：我很相信并一直以来都很热切的希望

能消除性别落差，

about closing the gender gap,

and I really believe gender-balanced leadership is the way to go

并且我真的相信性别均衡的 领导层是能达到

in order to embrace a leadership style that has been shown to be more powerful,

一种公认的更强大的领导风格的方式，

and that's when both men and women embrace

也就是当男性和女性都能拥抱

both masculine and feminine values.

男性化和女性化所带来的价值时。

It actually is proven in research

事实上已经有研究表明

that that's the most effective leadership style.

那是最有效的一种领导模式。

但我现在更多的在思考 该如何缩小年龄差距，

But I'm increasingly now thinking about how we close the generational gap,

because look at these young children in the streets around the world --

因为当我看到现在年纪小的孩子 在全世界的街头呼吁——

they're asking us to lead.

他们在要求我们去领导。

Kofi Annan used to say, "You're never too young to lead."

科菲·安南曾说过： “领导永远也不会嫌年轻。”

And then he would add,

他通常会加上一句，

"Or too old to learn."

“活到老学到老。”

And I think we have now entered this era

我认为我们已经跨入了这样一个时代，

where we need the wisdom of those with experience,

我们既需要这些经验人士的智慧，

but we need the digital natives of the young generation

也需要年轻的数字原生代 (儿时起便使用因特网和手机的人)

to co-mentor or to mentor us just as much as we can help

来互相指导或指导我们，

with wisdom from the older people.

就像我们能用前人的经验帮助他们一样。

So it's a new reality,

所以这是一种新的现实，

and these old, sort of hierarchical ways to think about things,

那些老旧的，类似等级制度的思考方式，

they're increasingly coming under pressure in this reality.

会变得越来越禁不起这种现实的考验。

BF: And you've actually called that the hubris syndrome.

BF：您其实已经称之为“自负综合征”。

Can you talk about that?

能多讲讲吗？

HT: Well, yes, I think hubris is our cancer in leadership.

HT：当然，我认为自负 是领导方式中的毒瘤。

也就是领导认为自己知道一切，

That's when leaders think they know it all,

can do it all, have all the answers

能完成一切，有了所有问题的答案，

and don't think they need to surround themselves

认为他们不需要听取

with people who will make them better,

那些能让他们变得更好的人的建议。

which to me would, in some cases, be more women and younger people

对我来说，在某些情况下， 指的是更多的女性，年轻人，

and people who are diverse and have different opinions in general.

和总体更多元，有别的想法的人。

Hubris syndrome is so present in leadership still,

自负综合征在领导层很普遍，

and we know many examples of them,

遮这样的例子不胜枚举。

I don't need to name them. And the problem with that --

我不需要说出来， 问题在于——

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Yeah, we know them -- all over the world,

是的，我们都了解那些例子 ——在全世界都有，

not just in this country.

不只在这个国家有。

But that kind of leadership doesn't unleash leaders in others.

但这种领导力并不能 解放别人心中的领导人。

No one person,

没有一个人，

or no one sector even has the solutions we now need to come up with --

甚至没有一个领域 有我们需要的解决办法——

the creativity and collaboration we need.

我们需要的创造力和合作精神。

The bold and the brave leadership we need to come up with solutions

没有我们需要的那种那种大胆， 勇敢的领导方式来

that cross government, private sector, civil society, young people, older people,

跨越政府部门，私营部门， 社会生活，年轻人，老人，

people of all different backgrounds coming together is the way

各种背景的人， 把这些人组织起来，

从而想出我们所面临问题的解决办法。

to solve the issues that are in front of us.

BF: Do you see that kind of leadership coming from the bottom-up

BF：您认为那是来自 自下而上的领导，

or the top-down,

还是自上而下的领导？

or do you think a crisis is going to force us

还是您认为将会有一个 危机出现，迫使我们

into a reexamination of all of this?

来重新审视所有的这些？

HT: Well, as someone who lived through the most infamous financial meltdown

HT：作为一个经历了 我的祖国冰岛，史上最声名狼藉的

in my home country, Iceland,

金融危机的人，

I hope we don't need another one to learn or to wake up.

我希望我们不需要再经历 另一个危机才能学习或觉醒。

But I do see that we can't choose one or the other.

但我认为我们不能 仅选择其中一种领导方式。

We do have to transform the way we lead --

我们必须转变我们现有的领导方式——

from the top, the boardroom, the CEOs --

从权力顶端，会议室， 首席执行官们开始——

we really do have to transform that,

我们的确需要转变那些，

but increasingly, we will transform that,

但久而久之，我们会做到的，

because we have these social movements coming from the bottom

因为我们有这些自底层，和整个社会

and throughout society.

发起的社会运动。

And the solutions exist.

而且，解决方案是存在的。

The only thing that's missing is will.

唯一缺少的是决心。

So if we just all find a way to embrace a moral compass of our own

所以只要我们都能找到一种方法来 拥抱属于自己的道德指南针，

to figure out why we exist and how we're going to lead,

想明白我们为什么存在， 我们该如何领导，

and if we embrace courage and humility in equal amounts,

如果我们拥抱同等 程度的勇气与谦逊，

each one of us can be part of this 10-year period

那么我们每个人就都能成为 剧烈改变我们所居住社会的

where we can dramatically transform the world we live in,

十年计划中的一份子，

and make it just,

并让其变得公正，

and make it about humanity and not just the financial markets.

变得关乎人道，而不只是金融市场。

BF: Well, we have a lot of people here who I bet have questions for you,

BF：我敢说在座的有很多人 都有问题想问您，

and we have a few minutes for questions,

我们还有几分钟的时间来回答观众问题。

so is there anybody that would like to ask Halla a question?

有人想问海拉问题的吗？

Audience: Hello, my name is Cheryl.

观众：您好，我叫谢里尔。

I'm an aspiring leader,

我是名有抱负的领导者，

and I have a question about how you lead when you have no influence.

我想问当你没有影响力 的时候是如何领导的。

If I'm just an analyst,

如果我只是一名分析师，

and I want to speak to senior management

我想和高层管理人员对话

about a change that I feel will affect the whole company,

讨论一个我认为会影响整个公司的变化，

how do I go about changing their minds

我该如何改变他们的想法，

when they feel as if they've had relationships that are set,

如果他们觉得自己好像 已经有了固定好的联系人

that their way of business is set?

和固定好的商业的模式？

How do you change minds when you have no influence?

当你毫无影响力的时候 该如何改变人们的想法？

HT: Well, thank you very much for that fantastic question.

HT：非常感谢你刚提出的精彩问题。

So sometimes people at the top won't listen,

有时在权力顶端的人不会听别人的，

but it's interesting that with the low trust we have in society right now,

但有趣的是有研究表明，尽管现在

the greatest trust we have

我们社会间的信任度很低，

is actually between the employee and the employer,

我们所接触到的最多的信任其实是来源于

according to recent research.

雇主和员工之间。

So I think that relationship may be the most powerful way

所以我认为那种关系可能是 最有力量能改变

to actually transform the way we do things.

我们做事情的方式的。

So I would start by trying to build a coalition for your good idea.

如果是我的话， 我会从试着建立一个联盟开始，

And I don't know a single leader today who will not listen to a concern

而且我认识的领导里 没有一位是不会倾听

that many of their employees hold.

很多员工都怀有的担忧。

I'll give you an example from another B Team leader,

我用另一个“B企业”领导人来举个例子，

马克•本尼奥夫，Salesforce的首席执行官。

Marc Benioff, the CEO of Salesforce.

He's really been outspoken on homelessness in San Francisco,

他在旧金山对于无家可归的问题，

on LGBTQI rights,

LGBTQI群体的权利，

and all of the things that he's been standing up for,

和其他所有他坚持捍卫的事情 一直都很大胆坦率地发表意见。

he does because his employees care about them.

他这样做是因为他的员工关心这些问题。

So don't ever think you don't have power if you don't sit in a position of power.

所以不要因为自己不在权力的位置上 就觉得自己没有能量。

Find the way to go convince him ...

找方法去说服你的领导，“他”

or her.

或者“她”。

And Marc, for example, was convinced to close the gender pay gap by two women

马克曾被两位在他的组织里 工作的女性说服去结束公司里的

who worked inside of his organization,

男女之间收入不平等现象。

who told him, "We have a gender pay gap."

她们告诉马克： “公司里的男女之间收入不平等。”

He didn't believe it; he said, "Bring me the data."

他不相信，告诉她们：“请给我看下数据。”

她们照做了，马克足够睿智， 知道这件事情应该被解决，

They did, and he was smart enough to know he needed to do something about it,

and was one the first tech leaders to step up and do so voluntarily.

并成为了第一批站出来， 主动解决此事的科技公司领导人。

So don't ever think that you don't have power,

所以永远别觉得你没有权力，

even if you don't sit in a position of power,

尽管你不在权力的位置上，

but find other people to support you

也要找到其他人来支持你，

and make the case.

为你的理由进行辩护。

BF: Thank you.

BF：谢谢。

还有其他问题吗？

Anybody else? Any other questions?

Audience: Hi, I'm overwhelmed by fascination

观众：您刚所说的一切

with everything you're saying, so thank you.

都让我觉得很着迷，谢谢您。

I just wanted to ask how, like, diversity in opinion and thought

我只想问，意见，想法

and also background

和背景的多元

是如何影响您的领导能力的？

has impacted your leadership ability.

And what do you think is the barricade that is limiting the overflow of diversity

还有，您认为什么是 阻挡所有商业环境中

in all business settings,

丰富的多样性的？

and what do you think can impact the change in that setting

您认为什么能影响那种环境中的改变，

but also to disrupt the overflow of generations of people staying in place?

但同时也能扰乱越来越多的 一代代一直呆在原地的人？

And what do you think is the next step to breaking several glass ceilings?

还有就是，您认为我们下一步该怎样 才能打碎一层层"玻璃天花板"？

BF: We're going to do an entire Salon just on that question.

BF：我们可能需要一整个沙龙的时间 来回答那一个问题。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

HT: I think Bryn said it well, but let me try and touch on it.

HT：我觉得布林说得很对， 但还是让我试着回答一些。

So the way I see gender, it is a spectrum --

我看待性别的方式—— 我认为它像是一个光谱——

you know, men also have gender.

要知道，男性也是有性别的。

We sometimes forget about that.

有时我们会忘了这点。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

We sometimes forget about that.

有时我们会忘了这点。

在我早期的职业生涯中， 我其实扮演了一个非常男性化的女性角色，

And I actually played a very masculine woman early in my career,

because those were the rules of the game.

因为那是游戏的规则。

And I achieved some success with it,

我通过那种方式取得了些成功，

but fortunately, I got to a place

但幸运的是，我最终达到了一个位置，

可以让我开始欣然接受 自己女性化的一面。

where I started embracing my feminine side as well.

But I would still say that the best leaders embrace both,

但我还是得说，那些最杰出的 领导会同时接受这两面，

both women and men.

女性化一面和男性化的一面。

But I see gender, also,

但我也认为，性别，

as one of the most powerful levers to shift values in culture.

是一种转变文化价值观最有力的杠杆。

So the reason I'm so passionate about women in leadership

我之所以对女性领导 这一话题这么充满兴趣，

and believe that balance is needed

并相信我们需要平衡

is because right now, our definition of success is incredibly masculine.

是因为现在，我们对 成功的定义还是很男性化。

It's about financial profit alone or economic growth alone,

认为成功只有关财务利润或经济增长，

and we all know that we need more than money.

但我们都知道除了钱 我们还需要更多别的东西。

I mean, we need wellness:

我是说，我们需要健康，

well-being of people,

需要大家都能安乐，

and there is no future beyond the well-being of our planet.

如果我们的星球不安乐， 我们是没有未来的。

So I think gender may very well be one of the most powerful levers

所以我认为性别可能是 一种最有力的杠杆，

to help all of us shift our economic and social systems

能帮助我们所有人转变经济和社会系统，

to be more welcoming.

让它们变得更友好，令人舒适。

And the answer to your last part --

关于你的最后一部分问题——

it's so complicated, but let me try to give you a short one.

答案有点复杂， 但我想试着给你一个简短的答案。

I believe that the way talent and consumption is shifting

我相信才能和消耗发生转变的方式

is going to increasingly get companies

会越来越让企业

to look at adding difference into their leadership,

意识到应该在领导力中增加一些差异，

because sameness is not working --

因为单一化并不起作用——

BF: And difference is a superpower.

HR：差异性是一种强大的力量。

HT: Difference is a superpower.

HT：没错，差异是一种强大的力量。

BF: Thank you very much.

BF：非常感谢。

Halla, thank you so much, I wish we could talk to you all day.

海拉，谢谢您， 我真希望我们能交流一整天。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声，欢呼声）

HT: Thank you.

HT：谢谢大家。

(Applause)

（掌声）