The Magic of a Creative Career | Michael Sheen | TED

翻译人员: Laixi Kang 校对人员: suya f.

I didn't want to miss this opportunity

我不想错过这个机会

to be able to tell you a couple of stories that I hope you might enjoy.

给大家讲几个故事，希望你们会喜欢。

The first one is about the town where I come from.

第一个故事有关我出身的城镇。

It's called Port Talbot in South Wales.

它在南威尔士，叫塔尔博特港，

It's sort of, I guess, famous for a couple of things.

可以说因为几件事小有些名气。

It's got a steelworks.

它有个钢铁厂，

It's a sort of mainly working-class town built up around the steelworks,

是一个以工人阶级为主的小镇， 围绕钢铁厂而建，

big council estate to house the workers there

修建了大型的公营房屋来安置工人。

that my grandparents grew up on

我的祖父母在那里长大，

and my parents grew up on as well.

我的父母也是。

And it's also, I suppose, known for, weirdly, actors.

有意思的是，塔尔博特港 还因演员而闻名。

And I said that this story was going to be about the town.

我刚才说故事有关这个镇，

It's actually about a couple of people who come from the town.

其实是有关几个出身于此的人。

So this first story was told to me, it's from the horse's mouth.

第一个故事是当事人直接跟我说的。

So one of the legendary sons of Port Talbot

塔尔博特港出身的最传奇的居民之一

is of course, the great actor Richard Burton.

当然就是伟大的演员 理查德·伯顿（Richard Burton）。

And the story goes that Richard Burton,

据说，理查德·伯顿

at the height of his fame,

在他名声最旺的时候回到塔尔博特港，

came back to Port Talbot

and was staying at his elder sister's house, Cissy,

住在他姐姐茜茜（Cissy）房里。

who actually raised him in Port Talbot.

正是他姐姐把他在塔尔博特港带大的。

And they were there, in Cissy's house in Port Talbot,

所以他们在镇上，在茜茜的房子里， 听见有人敲门，

and there was a knock on the door

and Cissy went to open the door.

茜茜就去开门。敲门的是个年轻男孩。

And it was a young, young lad.

And he said, this young lad said, "Is, is Richard Burton there?"

男孩问：“理查德·伯顿在吗？”

And Cissy was like,

茜茜就喊理查德：

"Richie, come, there's a lad here to see you."

“理奇，来，有个男孩找你。” 于是理查德·伯顿就下了楼，

So Richard Burton comes down

and this young lad's standing there looking at him,

而这个男孩就站在那儿看着他： “这就是伟大的理查德·伯顿本尊。”

"It's the great Richard Burton."

And Cissy says, "This young lad wants an autograph."

茜茜说：“这孩子想要签名。”

And Burton said, "Do you speak Welsh?"

伯顿就问：“你说威尔士语吗？”

The lad was like, "No."

男孩说：“不能。”

"Well, not a proper Welshman then."

“那你就算不上真正的威尔士好汉。”

And Cissy says,

茜茜就说：

"This little lad is the son of the bakers round the corner,

“这孩子是街拐角那儿面包师的儿子，

down from where the Regent Cinema is."

就在丽晶电影院旁边。”

And Burton said to this little lad,

伯顿就跟男孩说：

"I used to work at the co-op just up the road from the cinema.

“我以前在电影院附近的合作社工作。

我当时真的没救了。”

I was hopeless."

And this little lad couldn't believe that he got his autograph.

这个男孩不敢相信自己拿到了签名。

And this little lad grew up into a man who told me

后来男孩长大成人，告诉我说，

that not only was this an extraordinary moment for him,

这件事对他意义重大， 不仅仅是因为对方是理查德·伯顿，

because it was Richard Burton who was doing on the biggest stage

在最耀眼的舞台上 做着男孩梦寐以求的工作，

what he hoped that he would do when he grew up,

but also because this little lad felt like --

还因为这个男孩觉得

he was always told he was a bit stupid,

别人总说他脑门儿不灵光，

a bit “twp,” as we’d say in Wales.

在威尔士，我们讲有点 “twp”。

And Richard Burton, the great Richard Burton,

但是理查德·伯顿， 伟大的理查德·伯顿，

saying that he was always a bit hopeless as well,

跟男孩说他自己也不大聪明，

gave him such hope.

这给了男孩很大希望。

Now, that little lad grew up to be Anthony Hopkins.

这孩子长大后成为了

安东尼·霍普金斯 （Anthony Hopkins）。

And Anthony Hopkins told me that story

安东尼·霍普金斯跟我讲了这故事，

and I, me, myself, growing up in Port Talbot,

而我自己在塔尔博特港长大时，

it was knowing out there had been Richard Burton

我已经知道我们镇出了理查德·伯顿，

and out there now was Anthony Hopkins,

现在又出了安东尼·霍普金斯，

two people who came from the same town as me,

这两个人都和我来自同一个镇。

who sounded like me a bit,

他们操着和我相似的口音，

who looked a bit like me, but were out there.

有着和我相似的外貌， 去到了外面的大千世界。

If it was possible for them,

如果他们能做到，

then maybe it would be possible for me.

那也许我也能。

Now, that is an incredibly important thing.

这一点非常重要。

To see your background,

能够看到你的出身背景，体验和经历

your experience, your history represented out there in the world,

反映在外面的世界里，

having a voice, speaking on a platform,

有话语权，有发言的平台，

doing the things that perhaps you hope that you would be able to do.

做着你希望自己能够做的事情。

If you can't see yourself out there

如果你无法在世界里看到你自己， 或是外貌、口音像你的人，

or anyone who looks like you or sounds like you,

it's very hard to imagine that you'll be able to do that as well.

你就很难想象你也可以做到 别人在做的事情。

And that’s one part of what was incredibly important,

而这是非常重要的点之一，

I've realized over the years,

这些年来我意识到，

of what was incredibly important about me being able

是什么

to have the life and the opportunities

给了我今天的生活、机会，

and the career that I've had.

还有我的职业生涯。

But it's only one part.

但这只是一部分。

I've realized more and more as time has gone on

随着时间流逝，我越发意识到，

how much I owe

我多么受惠于他人，

everything, all the opportunities I've had, to other people

我的一切，我有过的机会，

都是受惠于他人和他们的劳作成果。

and the work of other people.

I come from an incredibly supportive family.

我有一个非常支持我的家庭。

All my family were into performing in some way,

我的整个家庭在某种形式上 都喜爱表演和业余演出，

amateur performing in some way,

so I knew from a very early age that it was something that you could do

所以我很小就知道 表演可以作为一份工作，

and that you got, sort of, brownie points for.

而且是值得奖励的。

So that was important.

这一点非常重要。

And as time went on,

而随着我长大，我的家人总会

my family were always there to take me to school rehearsals in the evening,

在傍晚送我去学校彩排，

youth theater, whatever it might be.

或者青年剧院以及其它地方。

They'd come and see me in any performance I was doing,

不管我的什么表演他们都会来看，

and that meant a lot.

这对我来说真的意义重大。

It's meant a lot more to me as time has gone on,

而且随着时间推移，它对我越发重要，

because, of course, I took everything for granted,

因为不用说，我当年 把这一切都视为理所当然。

didn't I, at the time.

But having that supportive family was incredibly important.

但是有支持自己的家人真的很重要。

And coming from a community,

我出身的社区

a working-class community, like Port Talbot, a steel town,

毕竟是塔尔博特港这样的 工人阶级，一个钢铁小镇，

it's not somewhere that you would expect to be that supportive of people

你不会指望这个地方大力支持人们

going into the poncy arts, you know.

进入娘娘腔的艺术行业。

But Richard Burton had done it, Anthony Hopkins had done it,

但是理查德·伯顿做到了， 安东尼·霍普金斯做到了，

and there was a kind of nobility to it.

所以这个行业变得让人尊重。

There was certainly a respectability to it and a respect for what they had done.

对于这两个人的成就， 人们持有一种敬意。

And so that made a big difference.

这就带来很大改观。

But in some ways, I think the most important part

但从某种意义上来说，我认为最重要的

was that I was able to do performances in school, drama in school,

是我有机会在学校学习戏剧，参加表演，

and then I auditioned for a youth theater, local youth theater.

接着又去试镜了一个本地的青年剧院。 是我们郡的青年剧院。

It was the county youth theater.

And again, at the time I took it all for granted.

我那时觉得理所当然， 但现在回头来看，我发现

But now I look back and I can see that there was an incredibly ...

我们当地发展出了极其完善的 青年艺术基础设施。

powerful youth arts infrastructure that had grown up in the area.

Not by chance.

这不是意外，不是随机发生的。

It hadn't happened randomly.

It was because one man, man called Godfrey Evans,

这是因为一个名叫戈德弗瑞·伊凡斯 （Godfrey Evans）的男人，

who was a teacher at the Comprehensive School

他曾经在沙田区的综合中学教书。

on the Sandfields estate,

that was the estate that housed the steelworkers families,

钢铁厂工人的家庭就住在这个区。

he had created an incredibly kind of, progressive, liberal

他在那个综合中学里 设立了一个非常进步、

自由的戏剧项目，

theater program in that comprehensive school

and eventually that spread to the entire county.

该项目后来发展到了整个郡。

And he became the chief adviser of county ...

而他成为了郡戏剧舞蹈首席顾问，

of drama and dance in the county

and created the youth theater that I was a product of,

并创建了培养了我的那个青年剧院，

that Russell T. Davies was a product of, many, many people.

这个剧院还培养了拉塞尔·T·戴维斯 （Russell T. Davies）等等许多人。

The youth dance company that Catherine Zeta-Jones was a product of,

他创建的青年舞蹈团培养了

凯瑟琳·泽塔-琼斯 （Catherine Zeta-Jones），

the orchestra, the brass band.

还有管弦、铜管乐团。

It was an incredible diverse array of art,

涉及的艺术领域多种多样， 全部由教育系统资助。

all funded through the education system.

And I was absolutely a product of that.

我无疑是这个项目的产物。

And I joined the youth theater.

所以我加入了青年戏剧院。

And at a certain point,

然后在某个时间点，

everyone in our youth theater just auditioned for drama schools,

剧院的所有人又去试镜戏剧学校，

got in, went off to drama schools in London,

入了学，去伦敦的戏剧学校上学， 然后顺理成章地进入演艺行业。

went into the profession.

I never questioned it.

我从来没有多想， 从来没觉得这有什么奇怪的。

I didn't think that was strange or odd in any way.

It was just like, that's what happened.

大家都这么做， 所以我也就跟着这么做了。

And so that's what I did.

And I got a grant to be able to go to RADA in London

我拿到皇家戏剧艺术学院的补助金，

and came to RADA and then left RADA,

在那里学习、毕业以后，

went straight into the West End

立马进入伦敦西区

doing a play with Vanessa Redgrave,

和瓦妮莎·雷德格雷夫 （Vanessa Redgrave）

never looked back.

一起演戏，并再没回头。

As time has gone on,

随着时间推移，

I've seen that pathway, let's call it, disappear.

我眼看着我曾经走过 的这条路渐渐消失，

So I know that if I was around now,

我知道，

要是我现在从头来过， 那条路已经走不通了。

starting off, that pathway wouldn't be there.

And I had tremendous advantages,

而且我现在意识到我享受了极大的优势，

I realize now,

with family, community, all kinds of things.

包括我的家庭，社区等等。

And it does make me worry that not only has my pathway disappeared,

我很担心，不仅我走过的路消失了，

my school stopped doing drama, school closed down eventually,

我的学校停止了戏剧课，最后倒闭了，

the youth theater lost its funding.

青年剧院也失去了资金。

Grants weren't available anymore for people to go to drama school.

资助人们去戏剧学校的补助金也没有了。

So I've seen my footsteps kind of disappear.

我看到我的足迹消失了。

And if someone like myself, with all the advantages I had,

而如果像我这样条件优渥的人 如今都难以成功，

wouldn't be able to do it,

what about the kids who are out there who don’t have those advantages,

那些没有这些优势的孩子们怎么办？

who don't have maybe a family

也许他们的家庭不能送他们去 青年剧院彩排，或者这之类的地方。

who can take them to youth theater rehearsals

or you know, whatever it might be.

Don't have a school that pushed them,

也许他们没有一个推动鼓励他们的学校，

don’t have that kind of infrastructure there

没有那样的环境能够为他们铺一条路。

to create that pathway for them,

what happens to them?

他们怎么办？

And then that leads to a bigger question, I suppose,

我想，这又延伸到一个更大的问题：

of, if young people,

如果来自某些工薪阶层的年轻人

coming from certain kinds of working-class backgrounds,

aren't able to come through into the arts,

无法进入到艺术行业，

I mean, I was an actor,

我自己是演员，

but it could be anything within the arts or creative industries

不过完全可以是其它职业， 在艺术、创意领域，

or journalism, writing.

或新闻媒体，写作等等。

The conversation that we have as a country,

我们的文化对谈，

我们作为一个国家，一个群体 进行的谈话会是什么样的，

as a nation, as a community,

what is that conversation like if we're only hearing from the people

如果我们只能听见

who are able to afford to get through

那些有能力获得话语权的人的声音？

to the point where they get to speak, get to have a voice?

It makes that conversation incredibly one-sided.

这样的对谈是很片面的。

I mean, there are figures that I can quote you

我可以给大家报些数据，

that I'll just keep to a few.

我就不列举多了。

But the Office of National Statistics reported a few years back

但是几年前国家统计署报告，

that of all writers in Britain,

英国所有的作家里，

47 percent

47% 出身起点极为优越，

came from the most privileged social starting points,

compared to 10 percent coming from working-class backgrounds.

而出身工薪阶层的仅占 10% 。

The Sutton Trust report in 2019 said that of newspaper columnists --

萨顿信托（Sutton Trust） 2019 年报告调研新闻专栏作家，

so these are people who've really got a big part to play

这些人在奠定我们全国 议题方面有极大的影响力，

in setting what our national conversation is,

newspaper columnist across the political spectrum --

不管他们政治倾向为何。

44 percent of those newspaper columnists

44% 的新闻专栏作家

come from independent schools,

毕业于私立学校，

whereas only seven percent of the population generally

对比普通民众中只有 7% 就读于私立学校。

go to independent schools.

So there’s a massive overrepresentation there.

这比例是很不对等的。

And of those newspaper columnists,

而在这些新闻专栏作家中， 有 33%，也就是三分之一，

33 percent, one in three, are part of that independent school,

走的是私立学校升入牛剑那条路。

Oxbridge, pathway pipeline.

And those are the people who are, you know,

而这些人，

have an enormous part to play in setting what our conversation is.

在设定我们社会议题上发挥着很大作用。

You know, who gets to speak,

谁能够发声，谁能够讲述他们的故事， 以及讲述故事的方式。

who gets to tell their story

and how does it get told.

And if that pathway is there

如果这条路存在的话，

for people coming through independent schools and through Oxbridge,

把人们从私立学校一路输送到牛津剑桥，

and that's not just into acting or writing,

而且不只是在戏剧表演或是写作方面，

that's across the top jobs across our whole nation,

而涉及到我们国家所有的顶级职业，

where are those other pathways

那么其它的路在哪里？ 针对没有这些背景的人们的路在哪里？

for people who are not coming from those sorts of backgrounds?

It's so important that we start early to create those pathways.

尽早创建这些途径真的非常重要。

In some ways, I feel like it's too late by the time you're 18, 19

从某些方面来说，我觉得等到你 18、19 岁 进入社会之后已经晚了。

out in the world.

How do you get people,

我们要如何让人们，尤其是年轻人，

young people, young kids,

to feel like there's something out there for them,

感受到外面的世界有适合他们的东西，

that they see themselves represented and know that it's possible,

让他们能看见自己的影子，感到希望，

as Anthony Hopkins did with Richard Burton, as I did with them?

像安东尼·霍普金斯看见理查德·伯顿， 而我又看见了他们两位一样。

And how do you then create the pathway from that moment?

基于此，我们又应该如何创建途径？

And let's say that that moment happens

假设说这一时刻发生了，

where you see the possibility for you doing something.

你看到自己做成某件事的可能性，

Where is that yellow brick road that goes from there

那条把我们从当下

all the way to actually getting into the industry that you want to be in?

一路带到我们理想行业的黄砖路在哪里？

If that pathway doesn't exist,

如果没有这么一条路，

because it certainly exists for some people,

因为对某些人来说这条路是存在的，

but it doesn't exist for you

但你没有这么一条路，

because of some accident of birth and geography,

只因为你意外没有投胎到好的出身，

what happens then?

那该怎么办？

There will always be individuals

当然，总是有个体能够打破阻碍

who are able to break through in some way

获得支持并成为例外。

or get support and become the exception to the rule.

But how do we change structurally our system

但是我们应该如何从根本上 改变我们的体系，

so that it's not just about individuals breaking through,

才不仅是造就个人的突破，

that everyone gets the same opportunity?

还能让每个人都能拥有同等的机会？

So I found myself sitting at my kitchen table

疫情第一轮隔离的时候， 我坐在厨房的桌子边，

during the first lockdown, talking to Professor Katy Shaw

和凯蒂·肖教授 （Prof. Katy Shaw）谈话，

about a project that she had been involved with,

谈到她近来参与的一个项目。

that I was incredibly inspired by, the Common People project.

这个项目让我大受启发， 叫做“普通人”（Common People）。

I suddenly had a grandiose vision

我一下子有了一个宏大的愿景，

of supporting people coming from working-class backgrounds,

去支持出身工薪阶层

underrepresented backgrounds,

或是其它代表性不足的群体的人们， 讲述他们的故事。

in storytelling.

And we started to hammer out an idea for a project

于是我们开始敲定关于该项目的想法，

that could go out into communities

我们希望这个项目能让我们走进社区，

and towns and look for those people.

走进城镇，并找到这些人。

We started to think about a project

我们开始设想这个项目给人们提供机会，

where people were given the opportunity,

asked to get involved

鼓励他们参与，

and that were then supported through it

并一路支持他们，

and would get mentors.

分配给他们导师。

So people who've already made a mark in the industry

这些导师都是在参与者 想进入的领域里做出事业的人。

and the areas that they wanted to,

helping them, supporting them,

帮助并支持参与者， 给他们提供建议和信心，

advising them, giving them a bit of confidence

and then to create a platform for what came out of it

然后给他们的作品提供平台，

to be shared nationally

让作品能够在全国范围内分享，

and to try and influence industry.

并尝试对各行业产生影响。

And, whether it's publishers or, you know,

让无论是出版社、

broadcasters or whoever it might be, to open their doors.

广播公司还是其他人敞开大门，

And first of all, to acknowledge the difficulties and the obstacles

让他们承认人们所面对的重重阻碍，

and then encourage people to come in.

接着再鼓励人们参与。

To renew us,

让我们能焕然一新，

to hear voices that we've not heard from historically.

听到之前听不到的声音，

And to hear of those experiences and those stories

听到这些人亲口讲述他们的经历和故事，

told by themselves

rather than having their story told at them or to them.

而不是其他人讲给他们听。

That people are able to actually tell their own stories.

让人们能够真正讲述他们自己的故事。

And we believed that that would be an incredibly powerful thing,

我们相信这将极具影响力，

not only for the individuals involved, but for all of us.

不仅是对所涉及到的个体， 而是对我们所有人。

And so A Writing Chance was born through that conversation, really.

于是，“写作的机会” （A Writing Chance）

项目由此诞生。

We have 11 people eventually who got through to be our first cohort

有 11 人成为我们 第一批次的参与者，

who would go through the program and get mentoring

他们将完成这个项目，获得指导，

and get the financial support and everything else.

并获得财务上以及其它方面的支持。

And I remember reading Stephen Tuffin's piece

我记得我读到斯蒂芬·塔分 （Stephen Tuffin）提交的文章，

that he submitted,

which was about ...

文章写的是

caring for his mother in her final days.

他在他母亲最后的日子里照料她的经过。

And I remember thinking,

我记得我心想，

not only is this one of the most moving things

这篇文章不仅是所有提交的 作品里最让人感动的之一，

I've read in these submissions,

this is one of the most moving things I've ever read.

在我有生以来所读过的 所有作品里也是如此。

It was an extraordinary, searing, incredibly raw,

这篇文章如此强烈真挚，

beautiful piece of writing.

文笔杰出而美丽。

And in that moment,

在那一刻，我就知道 这将超出所有人的期待。

I knew that this was going to exceed all expectations.

事实的确如此。

And it did.

The 11 writers that we finally worked with for the last year,

去年我们与 11 位作者合作，

reading what they've done has been absolutely revelatory.

读到他们的经历是如此具有启发性。

Whether it's reading about the experience

不管是格蕾丝·款塔克 （Grace Quantock）

of marginalized bodies by Grace Quantock.

关于边缘化身体的经历，

Lifting the veil on what it is like to live with a disability

揭露了与残疾共存的生活

and how people relate to that.

以及人们与残疾的关系。

It's extraordinary.

文章很棒。她所写的一切都非常棒。

Everything she's written has been extraordinary.

Stephen's piece, about caring for his mother in her final days ...

斯蒂芬的那篇文章， 关于照料他母亲的那篇，

I will never forget that piece.

我永远都不会忘记。 它会跟随我一辈子。

It will stay with me for the rest of my life.

There's David Clancy, hairdresser in Ulverston,

还有大卫·克兰西（David Clancy）， 阿尔弗斯顿的一位理发师，

talking about how he turned having gibes thrown at him

写到他在年轻时因为 同性恋的身份经受各种辱骂，

for being gay when he was younger,

being kicked out of his own house by his parents

也因此被驱逐出他父母的家，

for being gay

and then having to move back into the house with his mum,

之后又不得不搬回家和母亲住，

or choosing to move back into the house with his mother and father,

或者说他选择回家和父母住，

as the pandemic struck, in order to look after them.

只为在疫情期间照料父母。这样的经历。

That experience.

Whether it's Maya Jordan,

还有玛雅·乔丹（Maya Jordan），

coming to write her novel about the goddess of the River Severn.

她写了一篇关于赛文河女神的小说。

These are incredible pieces of writing

这些作品都非常出色，

from and with voices and experiences that I just never heard before.

也都来自于我之前从没听过的声音。

It's absolutely revelatory to me.

这对我很有启发。

To see their writing in a magazine,

能够在杂志里看到他们的作品，

on a national newspaper,

被登出在全国报纸上， 在舞台上被表演出来，

being performed live on stage,

being broadcast on BBC Sounds in a podcast.

或是在 BBC Sounds 的播客里被广播出来。

This is extraordinary stuff.

这多棒啊。

I remember Maya Jordan telling me

我记得玛雅·乔丹跟我说起

that -- the idea of being a writer on her estate,

在她出身的地方成为作家的想法，

she said, "There were no writers on our estate.

她说：“我们这个区哪有什么作家。

To say to someone that you wanted to be a writer

跟别人说你想成为作家，

was like saying you wanted to be an astronaut."

就跟你说你想上太空一样。”

It was amazing to be able to go up to Maya

最棒的是能够上台祝贺玛雅,

after the live performance that we did in Cardiff.

就在我们卡尔迪夫现场表演之后。

And to say to us all,

然后能够告诉我们大家：

"How does it feel to be an astronaut?"

“上太空感觉如何？”

(Music)

（音乐）