A Comedian’s Take on How to Save Democracy | Jordan Klepper | TED

535,598 views ・ 2024-04-02

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翻译人员: Amelie Chen Qu 校对人员: Yanyan Hong
00:04
When TED asked me to be a part of this democracy event,
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当 TED 邀请我参与这个 “TED 民主” 活动时,
00:09
I was flattered.
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我受宠若惊。
00:10
When they told me it was a pro-democracy event,
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当他们告诉我 这是一场支持民主的活动时,
00:12
I paused.
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我停顿了下。
00:14
Like, really?
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问道,真的吗?
00:16
We still think this is a good idea?
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我们还相信民主是个好主意吗?
00:17
Giving everyone a voice?
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让所有人都有发言权?
00:20
Have you talked to everyone?
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你和所有人谈过了吗?
00:23
One in 10 Americans believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows.
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十分之一的美国人认为 巧克力牛奶来自棕牛。
00:29
We want those people weighing in on foreign policy.
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我们希望这些人权衡外交政策。
00:32
Because if democracy is hearing from the voice of the people,
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因为如果民主听取了人民的声音
00:36
consider me skeptical of that conversation.
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那就认为我对那次对话持怀疑态度。
00:40
Because I think we're incapable of having it.
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因为我认为我们没有能力拥有它,
00:42
Any conversation.
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任何对话。
00:44
And not just in America, globally, we're tuning people out.
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不只是在美国,在全球范围内, 我们正在将人们拒之门外。
00:48
Frankly, we're bad at talking to other people.
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坦率地说,我们不善于与其他人交谈。
00:51
Didn't always used to be this way.
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过去并不总是这样。
00:53
In the old days, it came naturally.
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在过去,它是自然而然的,
00:56
We would talk to folks, we would negotiate over food or child care.
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我们会与人们交谈, 我们将就食物或儿童保育进行谈判。
01:00
So your kid didn't get eaten by a bear
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所以你的孩子没有被熊吃掉,
01:02
or run off and invent fire.
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或逃跑且引发火灾。
01:05
But since then, it's gotten harder, more difficult.
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但是从那以后,这变得越来越难、 越来越困难。
01:07
Screens have placed an impediment between people and thought.
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屏幕在人与思想之间设置了障碍。
01:12
Partisanship has made talking to someone outside of your own POV traumatic.
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党派偏见使你的 作者叙述视角之外的人 交谈变得痛苦。
01:17
Now, talking to somebody with a different point of view than yourself
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如今,我们不惜一切避免 与自己持不同观点的人交谈。
01:20
is to be avoided at all costs.
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01:23
It's like paying taxes.
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就像纳税一样。
01:25
Like, you should do it,
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比如,你应该这样做,
01:26
but if you can avoid it, makes you smart.
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但如果你能避免,那你真是聪明。
01:29
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
01:30
It's an awful time for conversations,
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现在是对话的糟糕时机,
01:32
so much so that even right now I've opted for a lecture.
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以至于即使是现在, 我选择了做讲座。
01:37
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
01:39
I won't be taking questions.
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我不会接受提问的。
01:41
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
01:43
I find it easier to speak at you.
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我发现让你们好好听我说更容易。
01:45
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
01:47
So how did we get here?
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那么我们是怎么走到这种地步的?
01:48
Well, as someone in their 40s,
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好吧,作为一个40多岁的人,
01:50
I'm legally obligated to point the finger at social media.
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我有法律义务指责社交媒体。
01:55
The cultural conversations we have
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我们的文化对话取决于 你我所处的论坛。
01:57
are dictated by the forums we have them in.
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02:01
And all those forums,
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而所有这些论坛,
02:02
they just push us towards short, loud outbursts.
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它们只会把我们推向 短暂且吵闹的“热门”。
02:06
Maximum volume, short duration.
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动静大,时间短。
02:09
Now, even right now, this TED Talk is only seven minutes.
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现在,即使是现在, 这个 TED 演讲也只有七分钟,
02:13
I remember when TED Talks used to be 18 minutes long.
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我记得以前的 TED 演讲时长为 18 分钟。
02:16
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:17
Now you have to communicate
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现在你必须在上厕所需要的时间内
02:18
the economics behind climate catastrophe
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02:21
in the time it takes for a potty break.
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传达气候灾难背后的经济学。
02:23
Not great guys, not great.
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这样不好,不好。
02:26
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:27
I remember the good old days
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我记得过去 TED 演讲有着
02:29
when TED Talks used to be “Theodore Discussions.”
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“西奥多讨论 (Theodore Discussions) ” 的美好时光。
02:31
You know, a year from now, they're just going to be T's GIFs.
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你知道,一年后,它们将变成 T 的 GIF 。
02:34
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
02:36
So how do we get better
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那么我们如何才能更好地互相交谈呢?
02:39
at talking to one another?
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02:40
If democracy depends on discourse, on compromise,
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如果民主取决于话语,取决于妥协,
02:45
how do we have civil conversations?
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那我们如何进行民事对话?
02:49
Well ...
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好吧……
02:51
The long answer is destroy the bias of social media
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长的答案是摧毁社交媒体的偏见
02:54
and the cesspool of misinformation
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以及主导我们政治和话语的娱乐机器, 重新治理传播错误信息的污水池。
02:56
that is propagated by the entertainment machine
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02:58
that dominates our politics and discourse.
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03:01
I could tell you how to do that,
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我可以告诉你该怎么做,
03:02
but TED only gave me seven minutes, so sorry.
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但是 TED 只给了我七分钟,很抱歉。
03:06
Maybe next time, it would have cleared everything up.
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也许下次,它会把所有东西都清理干净。
03:09
But in the four minutes,
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但是在这四分钟里,
03:12
wow, the four minutes we have left,
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哇,我们剩下的四分钟,
03:14
I'll give you a few tips of what you can do now.
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我会给你一些小贴士, 告诉大家你现在能做什么。
03:18
So, three tips for how to be slightly better at talking to a human
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有三个技巧可以帮助您更好地 与您不同意的人交谈。
03:23
you disagree with.
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03:25
One, read a book.
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第一,读一本书。
03:27
Easy.
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简单。
03:28
You know, you're not as smart as you think you are,
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你知道,你没有你想象的那么聪明,
03:31
get inside the head of someone else.
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深入别人的脑海。
03:33
And make it a long book.
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然后把它写成一本长书。
03:34
We need to expand our attention beyond just TikToks.
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我们需要延长注意力,而不仅仅是TikToks。
03:38
Two, travel.
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第二,旅行。
03:39
Mark Twain said it best.
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马克·吐温说得最好。
03:41
You know, bias is reduced by travel.
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你知道,旅行可以减少偏见。
03:44
It's the easiest way.
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这是最简单的方法。
03:45
As a kid who grew up in Michigan,
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作为一个从小在密歇根州长大的孩子,
03:47
I hated Ohio.
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我讨厌俄亥俄州。
03:49
And then I traveled there, and you know what?
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然后我去了那里,你知道吗?
03:51
I still hate Ohio.
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我还是讨厌俄亥俄州。
03:53
But now I know what Akron smells like.
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但是现在我知道阿克伦是什么味道了。
03:56
So I guess, progress, I think?
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所以我猜,我想是有所进步了吧?
04:00
And three, concede something.
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第三,适时让步。
04:03
That's a biggie.
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那很重要。
04:04
Concession.
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特许权。
04:06
You have to give something up.
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你必须放弃一些东西。
04:08
You're not as smart as you think you are.
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你没有你想象的那么聪明。
04:10
Concession is crucial to democracy.
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让步对民主至关重要。
04:14
To concede comes from the Latin “consensus,”
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让步来自拉丁语的“共识”,
04:17
which means to find agreement.
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意思是达成协议。
04:19
And if you challenge me on that, I would concede.
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如果你就此向我提出质疑, 我会承认的。
04:22
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:23
Because I totally made that up.
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因为这完全是我编造的。
04:24
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:26
That's how this thing works, you know?
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这个东西就是这样运作的,你知道吗?
04:29
Even upstanding, charismatic people like myself are full of shit.
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即使是像我这样挺拔、有魅力的人 也胡说八道的。
04:33
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:34
Like many of us, I find my desire to be seen as smart
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和许多人一样,当我不知道自己在说什么时, 我发现自己特别想自作聪明,
04:38
outweighs my desire to shut up when I don't know what I'm talking about.
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也不愿意选择沉默。
04:42
It's hard for Americans to shut up
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美国人在不知道自己在说什么时候, 很难闭嘴。
04:44
when they don't know what they're talking about.
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04:46
When you make politics a sport, then everything becomes win or lose,
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当你把政治当作一项运动时, 一切都变成了输赢,
04:51
every conversation becomes a negotiation over field position.
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每一次对话都变成了关于立场的谈判。
04:55
Our guards are up.
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我们的警卫准备好了。
04:57
We're defensive, we're afraid of getting punched in the face.
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我们在防守,我们害怕被拳打脸。
05:00
We think our strongest weapon is our certainty.
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我们认为我们最强的武器是我们的确定性。
05:04
But the most relatable thing about us is our failure.
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但是和我们最相关的是 我们的失败。
05:07
Has no one here been to therapy?
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这里没人去过治疗吗?
05:10
It's all there.
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都在那里。
05:11
And democracy in a bipartisan country
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而在两党国家中,民主就像婚姻。
05:14
is like a marriage.
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05:16
And in America,
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而在美国,
05:17
we are at the couple's counseling phase.
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我们正处于这对夫妇的婚姻咨询阶段。
05:20
America, you've made some mistakes.
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美国,你犯了一些错误。
05:22
Republicans, maybe vaccines aren't the work of the devil.
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共和党人, 也许疫苗不是魔鬼所为。
05:26
Democrats,
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民主党人, 也许波特兰确实糟透了。
05:28
maybe Portland does suck.
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05:29
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
05:34
Canada, Canada, it's 2023,
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加拿大,加拿大,现在是 2023 年,
05:37
you can’t call your police “Mounties.”
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你不能称你的警察为 “骑警”。
05:38
Alright?
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好吗?
05:40
We're imperfect, we have to accept that.
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我们并不完美,我们必须接受这一点。
05:43
It's hard to say you don't know.
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很难说你不知道。
05:45
But it can also be liberating.
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但它也可以解放。
05:48
Like, I don't know how to throw away batteries, I don't.
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比如,我不知道如何扔掉电池,我不知道。
05:52
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
05:55
I don't know what "40 percent chance of rain" means.
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我不知道 “40% 的降雨几率” 是什么意思。
05:58
Does it mean it's 40 percent chance it will rain
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这是否意味着下雨
06:01
or that it’s going to rain, only 40 percent chance as hard?
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或下雨的几率为 40%, 只有 40% 的几率如此艰难?
06:04
I don't know, I don't know, I don't,
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我不知道,我不知道,我不知道,
06:06
but it's liberating.
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但这是一种解放。
06:08
We need to, we need to concede a little on everything.
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我们需要, 我们需要在所有事情上稍微让步。
06:12
Except for gun safety reform.
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枪支安全改革除外。
06:13
That's a no-brainer.
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这不费吹灰之力。
06:15
But everything else --
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但是其他一切——
06:16
And climate.
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还有气候。
06:17
See, it's tough.
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看,这很艰难。
06:19
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
06:20
It's hard, it's hard.
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这很难,很难。
06:23
We're not very good at it.
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我们不太擅长。
06:25
It's not popular to concede.
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让步并不受欢迎。
06:27
In America, there's a big chunk of the population right now
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在美国,目前有很大一部分
06:31
who hasn't conceded the last presidential election.
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人没有承认上次总统大选。
06:34
It's hard to give any ground when you can't agree
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当你不同意你所站立的地球 要么是圆形的要么是平坦的,
06:37
that the Earth you stand on is either round or flat.
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就很难给出任何依据。
06:41
But, but, perhaps a gesture of understanding,
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但是,
06:47
if not towards irrefutable facts,
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如果不是对无可辩驳的事实,
06:50
but to your own uncertainty
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而是对自己的不确定性表现出理解的姿态,
06:52
is a step towards progress.
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也是朝着进步迈出的一步。
06:56
I think the phrase “I don’t know” invites a softening,
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我认为 “我不知道”这句话会让人感到软化,
07:00
and the ground is too hard to grow much of anything right now.
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而且现在这个土壤种植任何东西都太难了。
07:05
What I think, in order for American democracy to survive,
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我认为,为了使美国民主得以生存,
07:09
we need a culture of vulnerability,
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我们需要一种脆弱的文化,
07:11
or at least a space in that culture for vulnerability.
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或者至少在这种文化中为脆弱性留出空间。
07:16
The good news is, being wrong is sexy.
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好消息是,犯错很性感。
07:19
Failure is an aphrodisiac.
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失败是一种壮阳药。
07:22
Every person who has ever loved me has told me how much of a loser I am.
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每个曾经爱过我的人 都告诉我我是个失败者。
07:26
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
07:27
The proof is in the pudding.
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证据就在布丁里。
07:29
And if conceding is too much for you,
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而且,如果示弱对你来说太难了,
07:31
if that feels weak, OK, don't think of it as conceding.
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如果那让你感觉很弱,好吧, 不要把它当作示弱。
07:34
Think of it as gamesmanship.
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把它想象成游戏技巧。
07:36
You're setting a trap.
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你在设陷阱。
07:37
Trap them with your vulnerability.
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用你的脆弱的一面困住他们。
07:39
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
07:40
Hypnotize them with your humility.
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用你的谦卑来催眠他们。
07:43
Distract them with your failure.
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用你的失败分散他们的注意力。
07:45
And as they begin to reveal themselves to you in your uncertainty,
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当他们开始在你的不确定性中 向你显露时,
07:48
smash those fools.
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粉碎那些傻瓜。
07:49
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
07:52
In the game of democracy, in order to win,
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在民主游戏中,为了获胜,
07:55
we may have to start with a loss.
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我们可能必须从失败开始。
07:58
But what do I know?
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但是我又知道什么呢?
07:59
I could be wrong.
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我可能错了。
08:01
Thank you.
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谢谢。
08:03
(Applause)
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