Hrishikesh Hirway: What you discover when you really listen | TED

翻译人员: Mia Cheng 校对人员: Yanyan Hong

I've been in love with music my whole life,

我一生热爱音乐，

both as a musician and as a listener.

不论是我创作的还是我听到的音乐。

But as a listener,

但是，作为一个听众，

sometimes songs feel a little like houses to me,

我有时会觉得歌曲就像是一座座房子，

houses that you can only see from the street.

一座座只能从街上看到的房子。

You can stop and admire them from the outside.

你可以停下脚步， 从外面欣赏这些房子。

You can say, "Wow, look, the architecture is amazing.

你会说，“哇，瞧瞧， 这个建筑简直令人叹为观止。”

You might be able to get a little peek inside through one of the windows,

你也许可以透过窗户， 向里面瞥上几眼，

but it’s this thing of beauty that you have to appreciate from a distance

但是你只能从远处欣赏它的美，

because it's not yours.

因为它并不为你所有。

And as a musician, when you put a song out into the world,

作为一名音乐家， 当你发布了一首歌，

it can sometimes feel like you're trapped in the backyard

有时却会觉得像是被困在了

of this house that you built.

自己盖的这所房子的后院里。

There might be people looking at it,

也许有人在观望这所房子，

but you never get the chance to show them anything inside.

但是，你没有机会向他们 展示房子里有些什么。

Inside a song, there are all these parts that get imagined and written and recorded

一首歌里包含了所有想象、 创作和录制下来的东西，

that are so full of thought and beauty,

这些东西极富思想和美感，

but only the people who've made the song

但是只有创作这首歌的人

ever get to hear those pieces on their own.

才能独自听到这些片段。

All those pieces get smushed together in the final version that comes out.

所有这些片段都在最终版本中 融合在了一起。

Whenever I put out a song, I was always a little sad

每当我推出一首歌， 我就会感到些许悲伤，

that no one else was going to get to hear the things that I had heard

因为没有人能够听到

when I was making it.

我在创作时所听到的那些片段。

Let me show you what I mean. Here's a clip from a song of mine.

让我来解释一下我的意思， 下面这个片段来自我创作的一首歌。

(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)

（轻柔的吉他演奏曲）

(Cello plays a flowing melody)

（大提琴演奏的悠扬旋律）

OK. What's your experience when you listen to that?

你在听到这些音乐时，有什么感受？

You might like it, maybe, or you might hate it,

你可能喜欢这段音乐， 也可能讨厌它，

or you might say, "I don't know, dude,

你或许会说，“我太清楚，哥们儿，

it's 20 seconds of a song, what do you want from me?"

这首歌只有 20 秒， 你想要我说什么？”

Which is fair.

确实是这样。

What I hear is impossible to expect anyone else to hear.

我不可能指望别人， 听到我所听到的东西，

It's not just the cello part and the guitar part and the drum beat.

我指的不仅仅是大提琴演奏、 吉他演奏或者鼓点，

It's also all the things that I lived through

它还包括了，我为了创作出这部音乐

in order for that music to exist.

而经历的一切。

So in 2014, I started a show

所以 2014 年， 我开始制作一档节目，

to try and solve this distance between the creator and the audience.

试图消除创作者和观众之间的距离。

I interviewed musicians about one of their songs

我就音乐家们所创作的一首歌曲， 对他们进行采访，

and then combined that with the different layers of music

然后将其与歌曲中 不同层次的音乐相结合，

that make up that song.

这样就完成了歌曲的创作。

I thought this way an artist could bring a listener in

我认为这样， 艺术家就可以把听众请进来，

and give them a guided tour of this house they made.

带他们参观自己建造的这座房子。

They could point to the foundation

他们可以指着房子的地基说，

and say, "This is how the song got started."

“这首歌就是这样开始的。”

And then as more and more layers get built on top,

然后，在上面加上越来越多的层次，

eventually the full song gets revealed.

最后就呈现出完整的歌曲。

The show is called "Song Exploder."

这个节目叫 《金曲大解密（Song Exploder）》。

It's a pod --

它是一个播客——

(Applause)

（掌声）

“Song Exploder” is a podcast,

《金曲大解密》是一个播客，

and it's also a TV show that I adapted for Netflix.

也是我为网飞（Netflix）改编的电视节目.

And over the years, I've gotten to talk

这些年来，我和世界上 一些最大牌的音乐家

to some of the biggest musicians in the world about their work.

聊过他们的作品。

People like Fleetwood Mac and U2, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Alicia Keys,

比如，佛利伍·麦克、U2、 林-曼努尔·米兰达、艾莉西亚·凯斯、

Billie Eilish, The Roots and Yo-Yo Ma, and over 200 others.

比莉·艾利什、The Roots乐队、马友友 和其他 200 位音乐家。

At first, I was really looking at those isolated pieces of music

起初，为了探索各自“屋子”的内部状况，

to do the work of revealing the inside of their respective houses.

我只关注音乐作品。

But as I was having conversations with them about their songs,

但是，就在我与这些人 谈论他们的歌曲时，

something happened.

事情开始不一样了。

I realized that there were rooms

我意识到，

to be discovered in the conversations themselves,

在谈话中就可以发现一个个“房间”，

doors that could be opened.

可以打开一扇扇“门”。

And I started to wonder:

于是我开始想

Could I try listening to people

我是否可以试着用听音乐的方法

the way that I was trying to listen to music?

去倾听别人的谈话？

Because when someone tells you something, just like with a song,

因为，当某人向你倾诉时， 就如同一首歌，

there can be all these layers within it.

倾诉中包含了所有这些层次。

There can be all this context that you're missing

里面全是你忽视的背景信息，

as the person out on the street, outside of the house.

你就像是街边站在房子外面的那个人。

So to get inside, I had to listen for those moments,

所以，为了进入房子的内部， 我必须留意那些瞬间，

those clues where there was more to be discovered,

注意倾听那些可以 提供更多信息的线索，

where there was something below the surface

这些线索暗示了，有些东西隐藏在

of what was first presented to me.

最初呈现给我的表象之下。

So I borrowed from my music-listening brain,

所以我借用了聆听音乐的头脑，

and now when I’m in a conversation, this is what I try to do.

现在，我在谈话时，会尝试这样去做

Be open to new ideas.

以开放的心态对待新思想、

Stop multitasking.

保持专注，

Let the other person know that you’re engaged,

让对方知道你对谈话很投入，

and do it without taking your focus away from them and turning it onto you.

但是不要将焦点 由对方转移到自己身上。

Because of making "Song Exploder,"

由于制作《金曲大解密》的缘故，

I now listen to a much wider range of music than I used to.

我现在听的音乐比从前要广泛许多。

When I was younger,

当我比现在年轻时，

I used to actually pride myself on my music snobbery.

我曾为自己在音乐上的势利心而骄傲，

But nowadays, it just feels like I'm potentially cutting myself off

但是如今，这感觉就像是 我把自己隔绝了起来，

from hearing some great ideas.

可能听不到一些了不起的想法。

And I think that’s a prerequisite when it comes to listening to people, too.

我认为，就倾听他人意见而言， 这也是先决条件。

You have to go into it open-minded and curious

你必须以开放、 好奇的心态深入其中，

and ready to learn something new.

并且乐于学习新鲜事物。

Also, the instinct to multitask is so hard to turn off,

还有，三心二意的天性虽然很难消除，

but it's so important that you do it.

但是做到这一点很重要。

You know, when you're listening to music these days,

你知道, 我们如今在大多数情况下，

most of the time it's something that we do passively.

是在被动地听音乐。

It's in the background.

音乐只是背景音，

It's the soundtrack to something else that we're doing.

是我们在做其他事情时的背景音乐。

And I hate to say it, but between our phones and our smartwatches

我并不想这么说， 但是电话、智能手表，

and just our own wandering thoughts,

乃至漂浮不定的思绪，

it's easy to get distracted,

都很容易分散我们的注意力，

and we tend to listen to other people that way, too.

我们往往也会以这样的方式 倾听别人的谈话。

But you can't really get immersed if that's the case.

但是，如果是这样的话， 你就不可能真正地沉静其中。

Imagine trying to listen to a song

想象一下，试着听一首歌，

while singing a different song in your head.

同时在脑子里哼着另一首歌，

You can't do it or you can't do it well.

你不大可能做得到， 或者不可能做得很好。

And you can't fully appreciate what someone else is saying

所以，你如果在想其他的事情，

if you're thinking about something else.

就不可能完全理解别人在说些什么。

I'm also a big believer in the power of nonverbal communication.

我还坚信，非语言交流 有着强大的力量。

Like, just the simple act of a nod

比如，通过点头 这样一个简单的动作，

is a way to let the other person know that you're engaged

你就可以让对方知道 你投入到了交流之中，

and also invites them to keep going and say more.

并且鼓励他们继续说下去，

That kind of intentional, engaged silence makes space for them.

这种有意的、投入式的沉默， 给了他们更多发挥的空间，

Sometimes, though, you do have to actually ask for more.

不过有时候，你确实需要询问更多信息，

You have to draw them out.

你需要这些信息把故事勾勒出来。

But if you can ask for what's below the surface of what they just said,

不过，你要是直接问他们话中的深意，

you might unlock some door for them

你可能就打开了他们的话匣子。

and invite them to go through it with you.

他们便开始就你问的问题讲更多，

That also means turning off the instinct to talk about yourself.

这也意味着你要忍住， 那种想要谈论自己的本能。

I used to think that this was actually the best way to show

我之前以为， 这是显示我在认真听别人讲话

that I was really listening.

最好的方式。

Someone would tell me something

当别人告诉我一些事，

and I’d say, “That reminds me of this thing that happened to me,”

我就说：“这让我想到了 类似的发生在我身上的事。”

and then I would tell a whole story of my own.

然后我就开始讲我自己的故事，

But it's kind of like listening to half a song and then saying,

但是这就好像听了一半的歌。

"Oh, you know, this part reminds me of this other song,"

你说： “你知道吗？ 这让我想起了另一首歌。”

and then turning that first song off and going and putting on some other song,

然后关掉第一首歌，开始播放其他歌曲，

which is also something I've done.

这也是我做过的事情。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But you can't get deeper if you lose the moment like that.

如果你像这样浅尝辄止， 你就无法深入，

So it's a challenge to your impatience and to your selfishness

所以这对你的耐心， 对你想谈论自己的自私心态，

to be engaged without making it about you.

以及投入不涉及你的对话， 都是一种挑战。

OK, and so now to ignore the advice about talking about yourself.

好的，那现在请你忽视掉， 那些要你谈论自己的建议，

I would like to talk about myself

现在我想谈谈我自己。

and tell you a little bit about me and that song that I played you a part of

告诉你们一些关于我的事， 以及关于我刚刚为你们播放的歌曲，

to hopefully illustrate what I'm talking about.

希望我能表述清楚，我想表达的内容。

Years ago, when I was making my first recordings,

几年前，我开始第一次录歌曲，

I would play my songs over and over and over again in my bedroom.

我在我的房间一遍又一遍播放我的歌，

My music career wasn't really something I could talk about with my parents.

我那时的音乐事业，并不是那种， 我可以和我父母谈论的骄傲事业。

They were hardworking immigrants

他们是努力工作的移民，

whose dream for me had been to become a doctor or a lawyer.

希望我将来能成为医生或者律师。

But every now and then,

但现在时不时，

I would hear my mom humming one of my songs

我听到我妈妈在哼我的歌，

just to herself in the kitchen.

就一个人在厨房自己哼歌。

And that felt like some kind of unspoken approval.

那感觉就像某种不言而喻的认可。

And over the years, whenever I would hear my mom humming one of my songs,

这些年来，每当我听到我妈妈哼我的歌，

it made me so happy.

我就很开心。

Last fall, my mom passed away.

去年秋天，我妈妈去世了，

And a few weeks after her funeral,

在她葬礼几周后，

I had a dream where I got to see her and talk to her

我梦到了她，还在梦里和她说话，

and visit with her for a little bit.

还和她四处转了转。

And I woke up filled with longing and sadness

当我醒来时，我整个人 充斥着悲伤和对她的想念，

but also gratitude for this moment and this dream.

还有感激、感谢这个梦让我又见到了妈妈。

And I ended up writing a song about it.

我最后把这个梦写成了一首歌。

(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)

（吉他轻柔的伴奏）

(Sings) But it's so good to see you.

（唱歌）见到你真的很开心。

It's so good to see you,

见到你真的很开心，

see you again.

再次见到你。

In the bridge,

在这座桥上，

I stopped singing for a little bit and I just hummed a melody.

我没唱下去了，只是哼着旋律。

(Humming)

（哼唱）

I was thinking about my mom,

我在想我的妈妈，

and I wanted to try and represent her in the music in some way.

想要将她以某种形式， 展现在我的音乐里。

One of the people who I talked to about the song

我曾和一个人讨论过这首歌，

while I was making it was Yo-Yo Ma.

他就是马友友。

I told him, this is what the song is about

我告诉他，这就是这首歌讲述的故事，

and this is what the music is supposed to do in this part.

这就是这部分音乐应该呈现的样子。

And I asked him, "Do you think that the cello

我还问他，你认为大提琴的声音

could represent my mom's voice?"

能够体现我妈妈的声音吗？

And he listened to everything that I said. And then he played those notes.

他听完了我说的一切， 然后演奏了这些音符。

(Cello plays a flowing melody)

（大提琴演奏的悠扬旋律）

OK. Here's everything together again.

好，这就是所有声音混在一起的样子。

(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)

（吉他轻柔的伴奏）

(Cello plays a flowing melody)

（大提琴演奏的悠扬旋律）

So now, what’s your experience when you listen to that

所以现在，你在这个屋子里

from inside the house?

听到这一切的感受是怎么样的？

Every conversation has the potential to open up and reveal

每个对话中， 都可能有更深层次的含义

all the layers and layers within it,

里面一层又一层的深意， 需要你揭开

all those rooms within rooms.

就像房间里还有的那些房间一样。

And personally, I hope that I can keep looking for those ways in

就个人而言，我希望我可以继续 寻找深入对话的方式，

so I can experience the depth and the richness of someone else's ideas

这样，在每一次倾听别人故事的时候， 我就可以感受到内容的深度

every chance I get to hear them.

以及别人想法中的丰富性。

For now, thanks for listening to mine.

此时此刻，我非常感谢 大家倾听了我的故事，

Thank you.

谢谢你们。

(Applause)

（掌声）

(Plays a soft tune)

（演奏轻柔的曲调）

(Sings) You called out my name

（唱歌）你呼唤我的名字

“Bring me some water, my love”

“给我点水，亲爱的”

And it all felt the same

这感觉就像从前一样

As any other

像我生命中的

night of my life

其他任何一个夜晚一样

We lived at home back then

那时我们住在家里

It still feels like home in my sleep

在梦里，仍然是像家一样的感觉

I woke to dark again

我睡到天黑醒来

For a moment

就这一会儿

It was you

只有你

and me

和我

You’re a piece of a dream now

你现在是梦的一部分

Just a little too far

只是有点太远了

I can still hear your voice through

我依然可以听到你的声音

The door left ajar

门还半开着

But can’t see where you are

但是我看不到你在哪里

By the murmuring TV

伴着电视的声音

You’d fall asleep to

你在床上

in bed

睡着了

You sat and looked at me

你坐起来，看着我

I said I miss you

我说我想你了

You said,

你说

“I know”

我知道

The pictures that I’ve framed

我装裱的这些照片

Don’t tell the stories in between

不是要讲述其中的故事

The moments that contain

照片里记录的时刻

Who you were really

代表着

to me

你对我的意义

You’re a piece of a dream now

你现在是梦的一部分

Just a little too far

只是有点太远了

I can still hear your voice through

我依然可以听到你的声音

The door left ajar

门还半开着

I guess that’s how it is now --

我猜这就是现在——

The only place you’ll appear

你唯一会出现的地方

We'll have to meet in some shadow

我们不得不在阴影下见面

Between there and here

在那里和这里之间

Between there and here

在那里和这里之间

But it’s so good to see you

但是，见到你真的很开心

It’s so good to see you

见到你真的很开心

See you again

再次见到你

(Hums a soft melody)

（哼唱轻柔的旋律）

You’re a piece of a dream now

你现在是梦的一部分

Just a little too far

只是有点太远了

I can still hear your voice through

我依然可以听见你的声音

The door left ajar

门还半开着

I guess that’s how it is now --

我猜，这就是现在——

The only place you’ll appear

你唯一会出现的地方

We'll have to meet in some shadow

我们不得不在阴影中见面

Between there and here

在那里和这里之间

Between there and here

在那里和这里之间

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

(Applause)

（掌声）