Hrishikesh Hirway: What you discover when you really listen | TED

76,341 views ・ 2021-11-22

TED


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00:13
I've been in love with music my whole life,
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both as a musician and as a listener.
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But as a listener,
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sometimes songs feel a little like houses to me,
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houses that you can only see from the street.
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You can stop and admire them from the outside.
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You can say, "Wow, look, the architecture is amazing.
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You might be able to get a little peek inside through one of the windows,
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but it’s this thing of beauty that you have to appreciate from a distance
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because it's not yours.
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And as a musician, when you put a song out into the world,
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it can sometimes feel like you're trapped in the backyard
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of this house that you built.
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There might be people looking at it,
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but you never get the chance to show them anything inside.
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Inside a song, there are all these parts that get imagined and written and recorded
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that are so full of thought and beauty,
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but only the people who've made the song
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ever get to hear those pieces on their own.
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All those pieces get smushed together in the final version that comes out.
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Whenever I put out a song, I was always a little sad
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that no one else was going to get to hear the things that I had heard
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when I was making it.
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Let me show you what I mean. Here's a clip from a song of mine.
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(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)
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(Cello plays a flowing melody)
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OK. What's your experience when you listen to that?
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You might like it, maybe, or you might hate it,
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or you might say, "I don't know, dude,
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it's 20 seconds of a song, what do you want from me?"
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Which is fair.
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What I hear is impossible to expect anyone else to hear.
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It's not just the cello part and the guitar part and the drum beat.
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It's also all the things that I lived through
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in order for that music to exist.
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So in 2014, I started a show
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to try and solve this distance between the creator and the audience.
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I interviewed musicians about one of their songs
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and then combined that with the different layers of music
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that make up that song.
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I thought this way an artist could bring a listener in
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and give them a guided tour of this house they made.
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They could point to the foundation
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and say, "This is how the song got started."
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And then as more and more layers get built on top,
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eventually the full song gets revealed.
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The show is called "Song Exploder."
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It's a pod --
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(Applause)
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“Song Exploder” is a podcast,
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and it's also a TV show that I adapted for Netflix.
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And over the years, I've gotten to talk
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to some of the biggest musicians in the world about their work.
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People like Fleetwood Mac and U2, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Alicia Keys,
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Billie Eilish, The Roots and Yo-Yo Ma, and over 200 others.
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At first, I was really looking at those isolated pieces of music
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to do the work of revealing the inside of their respective houses.
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But as I was having conversations with them about their songs,
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something happened.
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I realized that there were rooms
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to be discovered in the conversations themselves,
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doors that could be opened.
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And I started to wonder:
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Could I try listening to people
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the way that I was trying to listen to music?
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Because when someone tells you something, just like with a song,
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there can be all these layers within it.
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There can be all this context that you're missing
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as the person out on the street, outside of the house.
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So to get inside, I had to listen for those moments,
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those clues where there was more to be discovered,
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where there was something below the surface
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of what was first presented to me.
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So I borrowed from my music-listening brain,
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and now when I’m in a conversation, this is what I try to do.
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Be open to new ideas.
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Stop multitasking.
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Let the other person know that you’re engaged,
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and do it without taking your focus away from them and turning it onto you.
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Because of making "Song Exploder,"
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I now listen to a much wider range of music than I used to.
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When I was younger,
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I used to actually pride myself on my music snobbery.
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But nowadays, it just feels like I'm potentially cutting myself off
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from hearing some great ideas.
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And I think that’s a prerequisite when it comes to listening to people, too.
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You have to go into it open-minded and curious
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and ready to learn something new.
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Also, the instinct to multitask is so hard to turn off,
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but it's so important that you do it.
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You know, when you're listening to music these days,
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most of the time it's something that we do passively.
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It's in the background.
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It's the soundtrack to something else that we're doing.
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And I hate to say it, but between our phones and our smartwatches
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and just our own wandering thoughts,
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it's easy to get distracted,
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and we tend to listen to other people that way, too.
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But you can't really get immersed if that's the case.
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Imagine trying to listen to a song
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while singing a different song in your head.
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You can't do it or you can't do it well.
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And you can't fully appreciate what someone else is saying
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if you're thinking about something else.
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I'm also a big believer in the power of nonverbal communication.
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Like, just the simple act of a nod
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is a way to let the other person know that you're engaged
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and also invites them to keep going and say more.
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That kind of intentional, engaged silence makes space for them.
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Sometimes, though, you do have to actually ask for more.
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You have to draw them out.
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But if you can ask for what's below the surface of what they just said,
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you might unlock some door for them
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and invite them to go through it with you.
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That also means turning off the instinct to talk about yourself.
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I used to think that this was actually the best way to show
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that I was really listening.
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Someone would tell me something
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and I’d say, “That reminds me of this thing that happened to me,”
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and then I would tell a whole story of my own.
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But it's kind of like listening to half a song and then saying,
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"Oh, you know, this part reminds me of this other song,"
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and then turning that first song off and going and putting on some other song,
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which is also something I've done.
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(Laughter)
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But you can't get deeper if you lose the moment like that.
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So it's a challenge to your impatience and to your selfishness
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to be engaged without making it about you.
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OK, and so now to ignore the advice about talking about yourself.
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I would like to talk about myself
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and tell you a little bit about me and that song that I played you a part of
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to hopefully illustrate what I'm talking about.
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Years ago, when I was making my first recordings,
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I would play my songs over and over and over again in my bedroom.
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My music career wasn't really something I could talk about with my parents.
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They were hardworking immigrants
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whose dream for me had been to become a doctor or a lawyer.
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But every now and then,
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I would hear my mom humming one of my songs
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just to herself in the kitchen.
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And that felt like some kind of unspoken approval.
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And over the years, whenever I would hear my mom humming one of my songs,
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it made me so happy.
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Last fall, my mom passed away.
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And a few weeks after her funeral,
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I had a dream where I got to see her and talk to her
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and visit with her for a little bit.
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And I woke up filled with longing and sadness
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but also gratitude for this moment and this dream.
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And I ended up writing a song about it.
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(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)
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(Sings) But it's so good to see you.
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It's so good to see you,
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see you again.
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In the bridge,
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I stopped singing for a little bit and I just hummed a melody.
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(Humming)
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I was thinking about my mom,
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and I wanted to try and represent her in the music in some way.
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One of the people who I talked to about the song
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while I was making it was Yo-Yo Ma.
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I told him, this is what the song is about
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and this is what the music is supposed to do in this part.
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And I asked him, "Do you think that the cello
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could represent my mom's voice?"
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And he listened to everything that I said. And then he played those notes.
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(Cello plays a flowing melody)
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OK. Here's everything together again.
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(Guitar plays a soft accompaniment)
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(Cello plays a flowing melody)
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So now, what’s your experience when you listen to that
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from inside the house?
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Every conversation has the potential to open up and reveal
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all the layers and layers within it,
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all those rooms within rooms.
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And personally, I hope that I can keep looking for those ways in
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so I can experience the depth and the richness of someone else's ideas
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every chance I get to hear them.
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For now, thanks for listening to mine.
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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(Plays a soft tune)
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(Sings) You called out my name
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“Bring me some water, my love”
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And it all felt the same
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As any other
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night of my life
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We lived at home back then
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It still feels like home in my sleep
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I woke to dark again
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For a moment
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It was you
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and me
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You’re a piece of a dream now
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Just a little too far
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I can still hear your voice through
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The door left ajar
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But can’t see where you are
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By the murmuring TV
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You’d fall asleep to
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in bed
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You sat and looked at me
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I said I miss you
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You said,
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“I know”
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The pictures that I’ve framed
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Don’t tell the stories in between
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The moments that contain
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Who you were really
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to me
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You’re a piece of a dream now
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Just a little too far
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I can still hear your voice through
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The door left ajar
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I guess that’s how it is now --
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The only place you’ll appear
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We'll have to meet in some shadow
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Between there and here
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Between there and here
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But it’s so good to see you
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It’s so good to see you
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See you again
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(Hums a soft melody)
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You’re a piece of a dream now
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Just a little too far
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I can still hear your voice through
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The door left ajar
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I guess that’s how it is now --
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The only place you’ll appear
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We'll have to meet in some shadow
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Between there and here
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Between there and here
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Thank you.
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(Applause)
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