What You Can Learn from People Who Disagree With You | Shreya Joshi | TED

翻译人员: Kate Tang 校对人员: Yip Yan Yeung

OK, guys, let's go back to high school.

好的，朋友们， 让我们回到高中时代。

Does anyone remember that feeling

有没有人还记得那种

of walking into the school cafeteria with your tray in your hand

端着托盘走进学校食堂

and not knowing where to sit?

却不知道在哪里落座的感觉？

Yeah, I see some people nodding, OK, cool.

嗯，我看到有人在点头。

You might have sat alone,

你可能会孤零零地找个座位坐着，

or perhaps more likely,

或者，更有可能是

you looked for someone who felt familiar.

找到一个感觉有点亲近的人，

You sat with a group of people that reminded you of you.

或者跟一群 与你处境相同的人坐下来。

And even today, when deciding where to sit,

即便在今天，在选择座位时，

how many of you chose to sit next to someone

在座有多少人会选择，

who looked or felt different from you?

坐在一个看起来或者 感觉跟你不一样的人旁边？

I would bet that not many of you did that.

我敢打赌，没有几个人会这样做。

I guess not much changes in some situations,

我猜，有些事情是不怎么会 随着时间流逝而改变的，

whether you're 17 or you're 70.

无论你是 17 岁还是 70 岁。

We've all likely felt this tendency to gravitate towards people who look,

我们都可能感觉到这种吸引力， 将我们推向那些

think and act like us.

样貌、思维和行为 都与我们相仿的人。

It's comfortable, but it can also be harmful

这会让你觉得很轻松， 但也可能是有害的，

because this polarization that we face today

因为我们今天面临的两极分化

isn't just about believing that the other side is factually wrong.

不只是相信另一方有事实上的错误。

We are beginning to see the other side as malevolent beings

我们开始将另一方视为恶人，

with a hateful and hidden agenda.

他们心怀恶毒且不可告人的企图。

And you can see this.

你可以看出这一点。

You can see this in the screaming cable news pundits,

你可以在尖叫着的 有线新闻专家的身上看到这一点，

the politicians who vote down bills

那些仅仅因为法案来自另一方

just because they come from the other side of the aisle.

而投票否决法案的政客们。

The hate groups that violently attack people

还有暴力攻击与自己不同的人的

who are different from themselves.

仇恨团体。

When I see these things as a teenager,

当我作为一名青少年 看到这些事情时，

I just feel so sad, so angry

我感到很难过，很愤怒，

and so scared of this world

我变得很害怕这个世界，

that I'm soon going to be entering as an adult.

害怕我很快要作为一名成年人 踏入这个世界。

But there's something that I found in having conversations with my peers

但是，我在与同龄人的交谈中 发现了一些东西，

that I think can be a path forward from all of this.

我认为这是一条能让我们越过这一切， 更进一步的路径。

An approach that focuses on conversations

一种专注于

倾听和学习的对话方法。

with the intent to listen and learn.

Not to win and not to agree.

不为了赢也不为了附和。

So I'm a 17-year-old from Naperville, Illinois.

我是一个 17 岁的青年， 来自伊利诺伊州的纳珀维尔。

In the summer before my sophomore year of high school,

在我高中二年级的前一个夏天，

I attended the ACLU National Advocacy Institute's high school program

我参加了 美国公民自由联盟国家倡导研究所

in Washington, DC.

在华盛顿的高中项目。

During this program,

在这个项目中，

I had the chance to take part in a lot of different political discussions.

我有机会参加了许多不同的政治讨论。

And I remember this one conversation about the death penalty in particular.

我对一次关于死刑的谈话记忆犹新。

So back then,

当时，

I wholeheartedly believed in this meaning of an eye for an eye.

我完全是以眼还眼的支持者。

That punishment should be equal to the offense because, you know,

我坚信一个人的行为和相应得到的惩罚 应该是均等的，

that's what I grew up hearing.

因为这是我从小听到的道理。

And so I argued the same.

所以我也这么认为。

I was, however, met with immediate opposition.

然而，我立刻遭到了反对。

My peers told me that the death penalty is state sanctioned murder

我的同伴告诉我， 死刑是国家批准的谋杀，

and that it reinforces the very behavior that it's trying to suppress.

这种惩罚强化了它正尝试压制的行为。

I tried arguing that the death penalty deters crime,

我试图主张死刑可以阻止犯罪，

but then my peers told me that in states without the death penalty,

但后来我的同伴告诉我， 在没有死刑的州，

the murder rate is actually significantly lower.

谋杀率实际上要低得多。

I then tried arguing that the death penalty brings closure

然后，我试图辩称

for the victim's families,

死刑会给受害者的家人一个交代，

only to be told that the length between sentencing and execution

但却被告知， 判决和处决之间的时间实际上

actually puts the victim's families through an agonizing wait period.

让受害者的家人 经历了痛苦的等待期。

So by this point, I realized that this debate --

所以到这里，我意识到这场辩论

Not going all that great for me.

对我来说并不是一帆风顺。

I realized that my perspective was inherited,

我意识到我的观点是守旧的，

and this is when I decided to stop trying to win the debate,

这也是我决定放弃 试图赢得辩论的时候，

and instead I just listened.

并开始默默倾听。

And in the months that followed, I took it upon myself to learn more.

在接下来的几个月里， 我开始自学更多。

I pored over articles and data

我仔细阅读了来自 不同来源的文章和数据，

from sources ranging from the more liberal,

从相对更加自由的，

like the Brennan Center for Justice,

比如布伦南司法中心，

to the more conservative, like The Heritage Foundation.

到更保守的，比如传统基金会。

And I learned that historically,

我了解到，历史上，

capital punishment has been disproportionately applied

死刑对有色人种的

to people of color.

使用比例过高。

And that the death penalty isn’t actually proven to deter crime.

而且事实上，死刑并不能阻止犯罪。

Slowly, my thinking changed.

慢慢地，我的想法变了。

And this change only happened

这种变化之所以发生，

because I engaged with people who had opposing perspectives.

是因为我接触了 那些持相反观点的人。

You know, it's hard to break out of your own echo chamber

你知道，很难走出 你自己的回声和固有思维，

because most of the time we don't realize that we're even in one

因为大多数时候， 我们在走出来之前，

until we're out of it.

都不会意识到 我们甚至处于这个空间里。

But this was my first step.

但这是我的第一步。

So shortly after this experience,

因此，在这段经历后不久，

I started a nonpartisan initiative called Project TEAL

我发起了一项名为 “TEAL项目”的无党派倡议，

to encourage and empower high school students

以鼓励和增强高中生的

to become politically involved.

政治参与能力。

We discuss a lot of different issues like education equity,

我们讨论了许多不同的问题， 如教育公平、

voter suppression, racial justice.

选民压制、种族公正。

And I've seen some amazing things happen

通过这个项目， 我看到了当人们相互交谈时

when people just talk to one another.

发生的一些令人惊奇的事情。

Understanding and accepting of our differences.

理解并接受我们的不同。

I actually remember this one conversation in the summer of 2020.

我记得 2020 年夏天的一次对话。

There was a boy and a girl who were debating

有一个男孩和一个女孩在辩论

the merit of the Black Lives Matter movement.

“黑人的命也是命”（BLM） 运动的优点。

And I remember being afraid

我记得我担心

that their conversation would evolve into an argument.

他们的谈话会演变成争论。

But it didn't.

但事实并非如此。

Instead, I learned that the girl, who is Black,

相反，我得知这名黑人女孩，

came from a family

来自一个

that had been through a couple of rough instances with the police.

曾与警方发生过 几次暴力事件的家庭。

And the boy, who was the son of a cop,

这名男孩是一名警察的儿子，

came from an upbringing

且被灌输的是

in which BLM was labeled as a movement in defiance of the police.

BLM是一种藐视警察的运动。

Later on, I was surprised to learn that, though they still didn't agree,

后来，我惊讶地得知， 尽管他们仍然无法认同对方的观点，

the boy and the girl learned something

但男孩和女孩了解了一些

about the other that they didn't know before.

他们以前不知道的事情。

And more than that, they appreciated

不仅如此， 他们还发现了这些背景

how it shaped the other person's unique perspective.

如何塑造了对方独特的视角。

And this was only possible

这一切成为可能的原因，

because they didn't delve into a shouting match

是因为他们没有陷入口水仗，

or call each other disrespectful names.

也没有侮辱对方。

And for me, this was an “aha!” moment.

对我来说， 这是一个顿悟时刻。

I realized that we shouldn't back away from discussing polarizing issues,

我意识到，我们不应该 回避讨论两极分化的问题，

even if it's with people who disagree with us.

即使是与不同意我们观点的人。

Sure, it's uncomfortable,

当然，这很不舒服，

and yeah, I'd probably agree

是的，我可能同意，

that we don't change our minds most of the time.

我们大多数时候都不会改变主意。

But we can better understand opposing perspectives,

但我们可以更好地理解对立的观点，

which can help us to better advocate for our own beliefs.

这可以帮助我们 更好地支持自己的信仰。

And maybe, just maybe,

也许，只是也许，

it even allows us to reach a compromise

它甚至可以让我们

when the situation demands it.

在形势需要时达成妥协。

So I think the question remains.

所以我认为问题仍然存在。

How can we create space for this kind of bipartisan discourse?

我们如何为这种两党对话创造空间？

Well, I think the first step is finding a community.

嗯，我认为第一步是找到一个集体。

When I think back to my experience in the ACLU,

当我回想我在 美国公民自由联盟的经历时，

I think the reason we were able to have that civil discourse

我认为我们之所以 能够进行礼貌的对话，

was because we recognized that we were a part of a greater cause.

是因为我们认识到 我们是一个更伟大事业的一部分。

And it's because my peers knew me,

是因为我的同伴们

not just as an opposing voice,

不仅仅把我看作一个反对的声音，

but as Shreya,

还把我看作史瑞雅——

their peer, their fellow teen activist and their friend.

他们的伙伴、他们的 青少年活动家同伴和他们的朋友。

And when we are able to recognize what unites us,

当我们能够认识到 是什么把我们团结在一起时，

it becomes so much easier to have conversations

就更容易就那些让我们产生分歧的事

about what divides us.

进行对话。

And most Americans actually validate what I have seen in practice.

大多数美国人实际上都证实了 我在实践中看到的现象。

While 77 percent of American voters

尽管在 2020 年总统大选前

polled before the 2020 presidential election

接受调查的 77% 的美国选民表示，

said that they had just a few or no close friends

他们只有个别，

who supported the other side's candidate,

甚至没有支持对方候选人的密友，

79 percent of Americans agree

但 79% 的美国人同意，

that creating opportunities for bipartisan civil discourse

为两党公民对话创造机会

would be effective in reducing divisions.

将有效减少分歧。

Seventy-nine percent.

百分之七十九。

That's pretty incredible, if you ask me.

在我看来，这也太不可思议了。

We all have affinity groups that we can join.

我们都能加入 与我们有共同点的群体。

Maybe it's a friend group at your place of work,

也许是工作上的朋友圈，

a book club at the local library or the PTA at your kid's school.

当地图书馆的读书会， 或者你孩子学校的家长会。

Whatever this group is,

无论这群人是谁，

try to have an uncomfortable conversation with them at least once a week.

尝试着每周至少与他们 进行一次别扭的交谈。

Now, OK, what exactly constitutes as uncomfortable?

好，所以这种“别扭” 指的到底是什么？

I would say that's really up for you to decide.

我想说，这真的取决于你自己。

It can be about politics, sure.

当然，这可能与政治有关。

Or it can be about a different topic entirely,

也可以是一个完全不同的话题，

like religion or identity.

比如宗教或身份。

Whatever this topic may be,

无论这个话题是什么，

just talk about something that’s uncomfortable, unconventional

尝试去谈论一些对你来说 不舒服、不合常规

and meaningful to you.

和有意义的话题。

And most importantly,

最重要的是，

do it with the intent to listen and learn,

以倾听和学习为目的去做这件事，

not to win and not to agree.

而不是获胜和认同。

And you know, another tip.

还有另一个小贴士。

Make sure to stay off of your phone for this conversation.

确保在本次对话中远离手机。

Yeah.

没错。

You know, as someone who's pretty much obsessed with TikTok,

你知道，作为一个 非常痴迷 TikTok 的人，

I completely understand how addicting social media can be.

我完全理解社交媒体有多让人上头。

Believe me.

相信我。

But by discussing polarizing issues online,

但通过在网上讨论两极分化的问题，

we lose that person-to-person connection

我们失去了真正

that really humanizes opposing perspectives,

将对立观点人性化的 那种人与人之间的联系，

that allows us to see and empathize with one another.

而它让我们能够 看清彼此并感同身受。

Because by having these conversations,

因为通过这些对话，

you will gain insight into people who think differently than you do.

你会洞察那些与你想法不同的人。

And who knows, maybe you'll convince someone

谁知道呢，也许你会让某人

of a belief that you hold dearly,

相信你珍视的信仰，

or maybe you'll even be moved to reconsider your own viewpoint.

或者你甚至受到感染 重新考虑自己的观点。

In a month's time, I'm going to be graduating from high school.

再过一个月，我就要高中毕业了。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Over the past four years,

在过去的四年里，

I’ve learned a lot about creating positive discourse,

我学到了很多关于 创造积极谈话的知识，

but I’m still scared of this polarization,

但我仍然害怕这种两极分化，

this growing unwillingness to view those who politically disagree with us

这种不愿意把那些 在政治上与我们意见相左的人

as human.

视为人的观点。

Honestly, it's a little overwhelming

老实说，我很快就要 踏入这个现实中了，

to think that I'm soon going to enter this reality

在那里，我将面临这种分裂，

where I'll be confronted with this division.

这让我有点不知所措。

Where I’ll be stereotyped and judged by my ideology, my identity

在那里，我的意识形态、身份

and my way of thinking by people who don't even know the real me.

和思维方式会被那些 甚至不了解真实我的人定型和评判。

As a teenager, it's a lot.

对于一个青少年来说，这很沉重。

And I know that many of my fellow Gen Zers feel the exact same way.

我知道我的许多 95 后、00 后小伙伴 也有同样的感受。

And this is precisely why addressing this polarization crisis is so urgent

这正是为什么解决这场 两极分化的危机如此迫切，

and demands action from all of us.

需要我们所有人采取行动。

Just for one moment,

只需要占用一点你的时间，

go back to that high school cafeteria,

回到高中食堂，

But this time you sit down with that other crowd.

但这次，你要和其他人坐在一起。

The kids who didn't look or think like you do.

坐在那些看起来或思想 和你不一样的同学身边。

And just imagine what you could have learned.

想象一下你能学到什么。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）