Isha Datar: How we could eat real meat without harming animals | TED

翻译人员: yao tong 校对人员: Yan Li Xiao

新加坡的用餐者吃

用一只从未被杀死的鸡做的鸡块。

这怎么可能呢？

Diners in Singapore are eating chicken nuggets

是通过我称为“细胞农业”的力量。

made from a chicken who was never killed.

在过去的十年里， 我一直倡导在实验室里种植肉类。

How is this possible?

Through the power of what I call "cellular agriculture."

对我来说，鸡块、汉堡、香肠— 他们不只是快餐产品。

For the past decade, I've been an advocate for growing meat in a lab.

都是由细胞制成的，而不是动物。

To me, this chicken nugget, this hamburger, this sausage --

他们是我们进入 新型食物系统的门票。

all made from cells instead of animals --

以下就是它的运作原理。

比起养一只有喙， 有羽毛，有知觉的鸡，

aren’t just fast-food products.

They're our ticket to a new food system.

我们直接从肌肉细胞中培养肉。

Here's how it works.

Rather than raise a whole chicken with beaks, feathers, sentience,

我们从活体动物身上 取一小块活组织切片，

然后提取其中的细胞。

we grow the meat directly from muscle cells.

它们可能会是肌肉细胞，

但也可能是脂肪或结缔组织。

We take a small biopsy from a living animal,

and then extract the cells of interest.

肌肉细胞特别喜欢附着在表面上。

They're probably muscle cells,

but they could be fat or connective tissue as well.

它帮助它们生长， 并拉长成那些长长的肌肉纤维，

Now, muscle cells in particular, love to attach onto surfaces.

这是我们熟悉的东西。

所以我们可以提供一个支架

让那些细胞能附着在上面。

It helps them grow and elongate into those long muscle fibers

当然，我们需要给细胞喂食。

that we're so familiar with.

所以我们把它们放在液体培养基中，

So we might provide a scaffolding material

这能提供这些细胞生长 和分裂所需的所有营养物质：

for those cells to adhere onto.

And then, of course, we have to feed the cells something.

碳水化合物，氨基酸， 生长因子等等。

So we put them in a liquid medium

that provides all the nutrients that these cells need to grow and divide:

最后，培养基中支架上的细胞

carbohydrates, amino acids, growth factors and more.

都会在生物反应器中生长，

有点像一个大的不锈钢水箱—

Lastly, the cells on the scaffold in the medium

看起来也很像一个大型的生长设备。

all grow within a bioreactor,

生物反应器提供了一个稳定的环境，

which is kind of like a large stainless steel tank --

这些细胞需要在

looks a lot like brewing equipment and can be just as big as well.

稳定的温度、压力、 流入、流出液等之中生长。

And the bioreactor really just provides that constant stable environment

在这些细胞有机会增殖和分化，

that those cells need to flourish in --

stable temperature, pressure, inflows, outflows, etc.

并长成肌肉纤维之后，

我们可以收集细胞 和组织然后把它们做成鸡块，

And after those cells get a chance to proliferate and differentiate,

一块无骨无皮全是白肉的鸡块。

mature into muscle fibers,

we might harvest the cells and the tissues and then turn them into a nugget,

现在，这不仅对鸡、牛和猪有好处，

a nugget that was boneless and skinless and all white meat to begin with.

对那些不得不养殖它们、 屠宰、加工它们的肉的人来说也更好。

Now, this wouldn't just be better for chickens and cows and pigs

这对整个世界来说都更好。

想象一下：

对细胞培养肉潜力的初步估计

and the people who have to farm them and slaughter them and process their meat.

水减少了 96%，表明人工养殖肉类 所需的土地减少了 99%，

This could be better for the whole world.

Think of this:

early estimates of cell-cultured meat's potential

并且能减少 96% 的温室气体排放。

show that cultured meat would require 99 percent less land,

这些仍是推测性的初步估计。

96 percent less water

但是想想这项技术的巨大潜力。

and produce 96 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions.

我的意思是，如果一切都可行， 这将会成为一种新的生存策略，

Now, those are still speculative early estimates.

But think about the incredible potential that this technology holds.

一种生产食物的新工具。

这不仅仅是一个新的产品类别。

I mean, if this all works, this would be a new subsistence strategy,

并且我觉得这是我们千载难逢的

a new tool set for producing food.

获得第二次从事农业的机会，

It wouldn't just be a new product category.

把事情做得更好，从错误中吸取教训。

And I think it's our once-in-a-lifetime opportunity

我说的错误是指什么呢？

to get a second chance at agriculture,

毕竟，这是一个维持 数十亿人生命的食物系统，是的。

to do things better and to learn from our mistakes.

但仅仅在五十年内，

What do I mean by mistakes?

看看鸡的身上发生了什么。

After all, this is a food system that keeps billions of people alive, yes.

只需要选择哪两只鸡与另一只鸡交配，

But look at what has happened to chickens

鸡从左边开始，这是 1957 年的鸟，

in just 50 years.

By simply picking which two chickens to breed with one another,

到右边这个，是一只肉鸡。

chickens went from this on the left, a bird that's from 1957,

这些鸡的年龄一样。

肉鸡在肉类生产 方面已经被优化了很多，

to this on the right, a broiler.

它们必须在 6 到 8 周大 的时候就被屠宰，

These chickens are the same age.

因为如果他们的 寿命超过这个长度的话，

Broilers have been optimized so much for meat production

它们的脚将无法支撑身体。

that they must be slaughtered at six to eight weeks,

这是非常痛苦的。

because if they live beyond that,

那么农场呢？

their legs will not be able to hold up their bodies.

今天，动物们的生活空间非常紧密，

That is real suffering.

所以抗生素耐药性和流行病毒的风险

What about farms?

一直很高，

Today, animals are packed together so closely

你知道 2018 年

that the risk of antibiotic resistance and epidemic viruses

的有史以来最大的 农场动物流行病的开始吗？

are at all-time highs.

据估计，非洲猪瘟已经导致 地球上四分之一的猪死亡。

Did you know that 2018 was the beginning

of the largest farmed animal pandemic ever?

四分之一的猪，

African swine fever has already killed an estimated one in four pigs on Earth.

也就是说我们的食物 供应中损失了数亿头猪。

畜牧业实在是太大了， 不可能不失败。

One in four pigs,

that is hundreds of millions of pigs lost from our food supply.

那么我们不断变化的气候呢？

你知道我们全球的养殖动物

Animal agriculture is simply too big to not fail.

是导致气候变化最大的 原因和受害者之一吗？

What about our changing climate?

从一方面来说，

Did you know that our global herd of farmed animals

仅奶牛就产生了 9% 的温室气体排放。

is one of the biggest drivers and victims of climate change?

从另一方面来说，

气候混乱的事件越来越多，成千上万，

On one hand,

cows alone produce nine percent of all greenhouse gas emissions.

有时数万头牛

On the other hand,

会在一夜之间因暴风雨、 洪水和火灾而致死。

climate chaos is seeing more and more incidences of thousands,

sometimes tens of thousands of cattle

农业永远是受制于大自然的，

being lost overnight in rogue storms, floods and fires.

但气候变化正在改写 我们所说的农业规则。

我们需要另外一种方法。

Farming is always going to be at the mercy of Mother Nature,

最后, 我们的地球。

but climate change is rewriting the rules of farming as we speak.

我们将地球上更多的 土地用于喂养牛、猪和鸡

We need another way.

比用于任何方面都要多。

Lastly, our planet.

地球上大约 1/3 的土地， 也就是 27%，

We dedicate more of this Earth to feeding cows, pigs and chickens

大致相当于整个北美

than we do to anything else.

和南美致力于饲养牲畜的总和。

About a third of this planet, 27 percent,

现在，这一切都可能 随着细胞农业而改变。

roughly equivalent to all of North and South America combined,

还记得我说过， 与牛肉相比，生产人工肉

is dedicated to raising livestock.

需要的土地要少 99% 吗？

Now, this could all change with cellular agriculture.

想想看: 牧场不能垂直经营， 但细胞培养可以。

Remember how I said it would require 99 percent less land

如果我们能减少一半， 甚至四分之一的土地，

to produce cultured meat versus beef?

Well, think about it: ranching can't go vertical, but cell culture can.

并满足全球对蛋白质的需求，

那么就能想想我们 能利用剩下的土地来做什么。

And if we can alleviate half, even a quarter, of this land

突然之间， 我们可以选择去做一些事情，

and meet the global demand for protein,

比如恢复亚马逊雨林， 在那边，我们为养牛而持续砍伐雨林，

well, imagine what we can do with the rest.

Suddenly, it becomes possible to choose to do things

或者恢复其他被牛、 玉米和大豆占领的生态系统。

like restore the Amazon rainforest, which we continue to clear-cut for cattle,

又或者把偷来的土地还给土著人民，

or revive other ecosystems that have been colonized by cows, corn and soy.

这样他们最终可以 重拾祖先的饮食之道。

Or return stolen lands to Indigenous peoples,

联合国表示，如果我们想要实现 气候变化应对能力的话，

who can finally reclaim their ancestral foodways.

我们需要恢复的大自然

面积与中国的土地面积相当。

The United Nations says that we will have to restore nature

细胞农业把这个问题 切实地摆在了桌面上。

on land the size of China

我们不仅可以减少土地 的污染以进行修复，

if we are to achieve climate resilience.

我们还可以用少量的排放 去创造出我们所熟知和喜爱的产品。

Cellular agriculture actually puts this on the table.

Not only could we alleviate land for restoration,

通过培养细胞， 我们可以积极展望农业的未来

we can also create the products we know and love at a fraction of the emissions.

以应对全球气候变化。

By farming cells, we could actually proactively envision agriculture

不仅仅是肉。

实际上，通过工程生物学，

从理论上讲，我们可以 种植任何来自植物或动物的东西，

for a climate-changed world.

And it’s not just meat.

从细胞中实现。

Actually, by engineering biology,

香草并不一定要在雨林中种植。

we could theoretically grow anything that might come from plants or animals

蛋白并不一定要和蛋黄放在一起。

from cells instead.

不用杀鹅也能提取出鹅肝，

Vanilla doesn’t have to be rainforest farmed.

皮革和丝绸并不一定 要从动物背上扒下来，

Egg whites don’t have to come with a yolk.

也不需要使用蚕茧的家。

Foie gras can be completely cruelty-free,

事实上，我们已经 食用了细胞农业产品

and leather and silk don't have to come off the back of an animal

就在我们的日常生活中，

数量非常之少。

or the home of a silkworm.

已经通过细胞培养的方法生产 出了几种维生素、香料和酶。

In fact, we already consume cellular agriculture products

in our everyday lives,

just in supersmall quantities.

事实上，凝乳酶，一组

Several vitamins, flavors and enzymes are already made in cell cultures.

用来把牛奶变成凝乳和乳清， 用于制作奶酪的酶，

通常来自小牛第四胃的胃粘膜，

In fact, rennet, which is the set of enzymes used

to turn milk into curds and whey for cheese-making,

这里指婴儿奶牛。

在 1990 年， 一种细胞培养的版本上市了。

used to come from the stomach lining of the fourth stomach of calves,

这种关键酶，叫凝乳酶，

baby cows.

而今天，仅仅 30 年之后，

And in 1990, a cell-cultured version hit the market.

用于制作奶酪的凝乳酶有 90%

A version of the key enzyme, chymosin.

来自生物反应器，而不是小牛。

And today, only 30-ish years later,

现在，想象一下

90 percent of rennet used for cheese-making

如果我们把生产从像凝乳酶 这样的小批量、高价值产品扩展到

came from a bioreactor instead of a calf.

商品水平的产品， 如牛奶的话会发生什么。

Now, imagine what might happen

if we expand beyond these small-volume, high-value products like rennet

现在已经进入开始阶段了。

今天，你可以买到冰淇淋， 真正的乳制品冰淇淋。

into commodity-level products like milk.

这是由细胞农业生产的。

Well, it's getting started.

这是永远不会从奶牛 身上挤出来的牛奶。

Today, you can buy ice cream -- real dairy ice cream --

它来自于电脑。

that was produced by cellular agriculture.

在一个开源数据库中查找 乳清蛋白的基因，打印出来，

This is cows milk that never came from a cow.

然后插入一种叫做 木霉的生物的 DNA 中。

It came from a computer.

The gene for whey protein was looked up in an open-source database, printed

就像酿酒一样，我们给酵母添加糖，

在一个大的不锈钢发酵罐里酿造酒精，

and then inserted into the DNA of an organism called trichoderma.

我们往这种经过改良的木霉里加糖，

Now, just like in brewing, where we feed sugar to yeast

乳清蛋白可以加入酸奶，

to brew alcohol in a big stainless steel fermenter,

奶油芝士和冰淇淋中。

we feed sugar to this modified trichoderma

我必须承认相对来说，

and out comes whey proteins that we can put in yogurt,

这可能是很简单的东西。

cream cheese and ice cream.

我的意思是，我们一直在改造微生物， 为我们制造蛋白质，

Now, I have to admit that maybe this is the easy stuff,

至今已有几十年了。

以及组织工程， 这是生产肉类所需要的，

relatively speaking.

I mean, we have been modifying microorganisms to make proteins for us

需要更新的科学。

我的意思是，动物细胞比细胞培养中 的微生物要挑剔得多，

for decades now.

And tissue engineering, which is what would be needed for meat production,

培养大量的动物细胞 并且实现三维立体

is a lot newer science.

I mean, animal cells are just a lot more finicky than microbes in cell culture,

并非易事。

但我们已经很接近了。

在 2013 年，

and growing a lot of animal cells and achieving three dimensionality

制作这钟汉堡需要花费 25 万欧元，

is just no easy feat.

But we're getting there.

今天，我看到细胞培养肉的价格

Back in 2013,

it cost 250,00 euros to produce this hamburger,

预计低至每磅 50 美元。

and today, I've seen estimates of cell-cultured meats

这是十年前的 27000 分之一。

cost as low as $50 per pound.

并且我只能看到人工肉的价格下跌，

That's one twenty-seven-thousandth of what it was less than a decade ago.

以及动物肉的价格上涨。

And I can really only see the price of cultured meat coming down,

我的意思是，想想看， 我们仍处于研发的早期阶段。

随着科学的突破，

and I can only see the price of meat from animals going up.

比如再生培养基， 降低生长因子的成本，

I mean, think about it -- we’re still in the early days of R and D.

并在体外实现更高的细胞密度，

As scientific breakthroughs are made,

这个曲线还在持续走低。

like recycling growth medium, reducing the cost of growth factors

与此同时， 动物肉的价格已经被人为压低，

and achieving higher cell density in vitro,

这是由大量补贴所导致的。

this curve is still going to go down.

它没有反映出对公共健康

Meanwhile, the price of meat from animals is already artificially low

的成本。

而且，在新冠肺炎、非洲猪瘟

due to heavy subsidization.

It does not reflect the cost to the public health

和不断变化的气候影响之下，

or to the environment.

动物肉的价格只会上涨。

And, in a world changed by COVID, African swine fever

事实上，如果这是一个 公平的竞争环境的话，

我认为价格对等是很容易实现的。

and a changing climate,

the price of meat from animals can only go up.

一方面，我们有畜牧业，

In fact, I think that price parity would be well within reach

这有来自公共资金和政府的大力支持。

if it were an even playing field.

另一方面，我们有 这个非常有前途的技术，

On one hand, we have animal agriculture,

which is so heavily supported by public funding and government support.

这项技术需要非常密集的研发，

并且需要大量的 基础设施和培训支持。

On the other hand, we have this very promising technology,

但是这项技术完全掌握在 私营部门和市场力量的手中。

which requires very intensive R and D

and needs a lot of infrastructure and training support

事实上，我不会 去幻想这些美好的事情，

but is left entirely in the hands of the private sector and market forces.

我只是描述了如果我们把

这项技术完全交给 科技和市场力量的手中的话，

In fact, I don't think any of the wonderful things

重新野化亚马逊 等等将会发生的事情。

I just described about rewilding the Amazon and so on will happen

细胞农业很有可能会失败，

if we leave this technology solely in the hands

但事实并非如此，因为从科学 的角度上来说是不合理的。

of technology and market forces.

失败的原因可能会是因为 我们没有考虑过所有权应该是什么样的，

There's a real chance that cellular agriculture could fail,

或者是知识产权保护，

and it won't be because the science doesn't add up.

又或者是治理和方针—

你知道的，这些任务 驱动型企业的商业因素。

It'll be because we didn't think about what ownership should look like

关于这项技术需要什么

or IP protection

or governance or policy --

我们必须非常小心，考虑周到，

you know, the business side of mission-driven businesses.

这样我们就能最大限度地 发挥它对世界的积极影响。

And we're going to have to be very careful and thoughtful

听着，我今天在这里是 因为动物制品实在太棒了，

about what this technology needs around it

so we can maximize the positive impact that it will have on this world.

你很难在植物世界中找到

和动物蛋白质功能一致的蛋白质：

Look, I'm here today because animal products are just amazing,

长而有弹性的奶酪， 奶油蛋羹，松软的蛋白霜，

and you would be hard-pressed to find proteins in the plant world

that can do what animal proteins can do:

存在于肉类和海鲜中的丰富鲜味…

long, stretchy cheeses, creamy custards, fluffy meringues,

但不管动物蛋白质有多神奇，

the incredibly rich umami flavors that you can find in meat and seafood ...

它们不再需要来自动物了。

是的，虽然我们还需要走一段很长的路

But despite how amazing animal proteins are,

才能实现这些技术的潜力，

并且这需要在实验室内外都有独创性。

they just don't need to come from animals anymore.

And yes, we've got a long way to go

但想想我们能得到什么回报。

to realize the potential of this technology,

我们有机会迎来一场大转变，

and it's going to take ingenuity both inside of the lab and outside of it, too.

But think about what we get in return.

与人类在大约 1.2 万年前 从狩猎到农业的转变一样大。

We get a chance to usher in a transformation as big for humanity

从很多方面来说， 这可能是一个富足的新时代。

as our transformation from hunting to agriculture some 12,000 years ago.

我个人对于这类 食用产品感到十分兴奋，

This could be a new era of abundance in so many different ways.

甚至无法用言语表达，

因为这也是烹饪创意的新工具。

I'm personally most selfishly excited for the food products

我的意思是，

that I can't even fathom today,

自从我们的祖先很久以前发现了发酵之后， 我们就没见过这种情况了。

because this is really a new tool for culinary creativity as well.

我的意思是，

在发酵食物之前， 我们从来不会去看一杯牛奶

I mean, we haven't really seen this

since our ancestors discovered fermentation a while back.

并希望它是硬的、发臭的、发霉的了。

What I mean by that is,

we could have never looked at a glass of milk before we fermented foods

你知道，我们从来没有想象过奶酪，

或者是我们今天拥有的上百种奶酪。

and wanted it to be hard and stinky and moldy.

同样，肉类仍然是 由动物的身体来定义的。

You know, we could have never envisioned cheese

or the hundreds of varieties of cheese that we have today.

我们仍然把它描述为肉块。

但如果我们能从细胞中培养出肉，

Similarly, meat is still defined by the body of an animal.

突然之间，肉类的界限将完全改变。

We still describe it as cuts of meat.

肉可以是薄而半透明的。

But if we can grow meat from cells,

suddenly the boundaries for what meat can be will totally change.

也可以是液体状态。

它可以是脆的，也可以是泡沫状的。

Meat could be thin and translucent.

汉堡是底线，香肠只是起点，

It could be liquid.

It could be crunchy, it could be bubbly.

鸡块远没有达到细胞农业的可能性。

Burgers are the baseline and sausages are just a starting point,

让我们梦想一个更宏大、 更大胆的食物未来。

and nuggets are nowhere near what's possible with cellular agriculture.

谢谢。

（掌声）

Let's dream up a bigger, bolder future of food.

Thank you.

(Applause)