Isha Datar: How we could eat real meat without harming animals | TED

譯者: Yin Wu 審譯者: Shelley Tsang 曾雯海

新加坡的食客們正在享用著的炸雞塊， 來自與沒有被殺死的雞。

這怎麼可能呢？

Diners in Singapore are eating chicken nuggets

是“細胞農業”使這成為現實。

made from a chicken who was never killed.

在過去的十年裡，我是一名“實驗室制肉”的擁護者。

How is this possible?

Through the power of what I call "cellular agriculture."

對於我來說，這個炸雞塊、這隻漢堡、這根香腸——

For the past decade, I've been an advocate for growing meat in a lab.

都來源於細胞，而不是動物——

To me, this chicken nugget, this hamburger, this sausage --

並不僅僅是快餐食品，

它們是我們進入新的食物體系的通行證。

all made from cells instead of animals --

這是我們生產這些肉的過程。

這些肉直接來自於肌肉細胞，

aren’t just fast-food products.

They're our ticket to a new food system.

而不是一只有著喙、羽毛和知覺的雞。

Here's how it works.

Rather than raise a whole chicken with beaks, feathers, sentience,

我們從活動物身上取下很小的一塊活體組織，

從那裡提取出我們想要的細胞。

we grow the meat directly from muscle cells.

這可能是肌肉細胞，

也可能是脂肪或結締組織。

We take a small biopsy from a living animal,

and then extract the cells of interest.

肌肉細胞特別喜歡長在平面上，

They're probably muscle cells,

but they could be fat or connective tissue as well.

這能幫助它們生長和延伸， 成為我們所熟悉的肌肉纖維，

Now, muscle cells in particular, love to attach onto surfaces.

所以我們會提供一種作為支架的材料， 讓這些細胞吸附上去。

It helps them grow and elongate into those long muscle fibers

接下來，當然我們需要餵飽這些細胞，

that we're so familiar with.

所以我們將它們放進一種液體培養基裡，

So we might provide a scaffolding material

這會供給細胞生長和分裂所需的營養物質：

for those cells to adhere onto.

And then, of course, we have to feed the cells something.

碳水化合物、氨基酸、生長因子以及其他養分。

So we put them in a liquid medium

that provides all the nutrients that these cells need to grow and divide:

最後，這些培養基裡長在支架材料上的細胞， 都在一個生物反應器裡生長，

carbohydrates, amino acids, growth factors and more.

類似於一個大型不鏽鋼罐子——

Lastly, the cells on the scaffold in the medium

看起來就像一個釀酒設備，而且也有那麼大。

all grow within a bioreactor,

這個生物反應器為細胞提供了恆定的環境，

which is kind of like a large stainless steel tank --

使得它們能夠茁壯成長——

looks a lot like brewing equipment and can be just as big as well.

穩定的溫度、壓強、流入量、流出量，等等。

And the bioreactor really just provides that constant stable environment

等到這些細胞繁殖、分化，變成成熟的肌肉纖維時，

that those cells need to flourish in --

stable temperature, pressure, inflows, outflows, etc.

我們收集這些細胞和組織， 並將它們做成炸雞塊，

And after those cells get a chance to proliferate and differentiate,

這個炸雞塊從一開始就沒有骨頭，沒有皮， 而完完全全是白肉。

mature into muscle fibers,

we might harvest the cells and the tissues and then turn them into a nugget,

而這不僅僅有益於雞、牛和豬，

a nugget that was boneless and skinless and all white meat to begin with.

以及那些養殖、屠宰它們和處理肉製品的人們；

Now, this wouldn't just be better for chickens and cows and pigs

這有益於整個世界。

讓我們這樣想：

早期評估表明，

and the people who have to farm them and slaughter them and process their meat.

細胞製肉需要的土地資源要少99%，水資源要少96%，

This could be better for the whole world.

Think of this:

early estimates of cell-cultured meat's potential

並且產生的溫室氣體也要少96%。

show that cultured meat would require 99 percent less land,

這隻是早期的推測。

96 percent less water

但，讓我們來想象一下這一技術具有的無限潛力。

and produce 96 percent fewer greenhouse gas emissions.

如果這一切都可行，這將成為我們新的生存策略，

Now, those are still speculative early estimates.

But think about the incredible potential that this technology holds.

一個新的生產食物的工具箱，

它不會僅僅是一個新的產品門類。

I mean, if this all works, this would be a new subsistence strategy,

我認為這是我們千載難逢的機會，

a new tool set for producing food.

去重新定義農業，

It wouldn't just be a new product category.

去改正錯誤並做得更好。

And I think it's our once-in-a-lifetime opportunity

我們有什麼錯誤？

to get a second chance at agriculture,

不管怎麼說，現有的食物體系養活了數十億人。

to do things better and to learn from our mistakes.

但當我們把目光聚焦到雞身上，就會發現，

What do I mean by mistakes?

在過去的50年裡，

After all, this is a food system that keeps billions of people alive, yes.

我們僅僅是通過挑選用於繁殖的兩隻雞，

But look at what has happened to chickens

就使得雞從左側那隻1957年的鳥，

in just 50 years.

By simply picking which two chickens to breed with one another,

變成了右側的肉雞。

chickens went from this on the left, a bird that's from 1957,

這些雞的年齡是一樣的。

為了產出更多的雞肉，肉雞被極大程度地優化，

to this on the right, a broiler.

以至於在它們六到八週時就必須被屠宰掉，

These chickens are the same age.

因為如果它們繼續長大，

Broilers have been optimized so much for meat production

它們的腿將不能支撐起身體的重量。

that they must be slaughtered at six to eight weeks,

這真的是折磨。

because if they live beyond that,

那農場又是什麼樣的情況呢？

their legs will not be able to hold up their bodies.

現在，動物們被過於緊湊地排列在一起，

That is real suffering.

使得抗生素耐藥性和流行性病毒的風險 達到了歷史新高。

What about farms?

Today, animals are packed together so closely

你知道嗎？2018年是歷史上最大的 農場動物大流行病的開端。

that the risk of antibiotic resistance and epidemic viruses

are at all-time highs.

據估計，非洲豬瘟殺死了地球上四分之一的豬。

Did you know that 2018 was the beginning

of the largest farmed animal pandemic ever?

四分之一的豬，

African swine fever has already killed an estimated one in four pigs on Earth.

那是從食物供應鏈上丟失的上億頭豬。

動物農業的規模太大，以至於它不得不面臨失敗。

One in four pigs,

that is hundreds of millions of pigs lost from our food supply.

那我們的氣候變化問題現在怎麼樣了呢？

你知道嗎？全球的養殖的動物是 氣候變化最大的推動者和受害者。

Animal agriculture is simply too big to not fail.

What about our changing climate?

一方面，

Did you know that our global herd of farmed animals

牛群貢獻了全球9%的溫室氣體排放；

is one of the biggest drivers and victims of climate change?

另一方面，

氣候的混亂局面導致了越來越多的災難，

On one hand,

cows alone produce nine percent of all greenhouse gas emissions.

導致成千上萬只牛在一夜間

On the other hand,

climate chaos is seeing more and more incidences of thousands,

死於狂風暴雨、洪水與大火。

sometimes tens of thousands of cattle

農業一直都受到大自然的憐憫，

being lost overnight in rogue storms, floods and fires.

然而，氣候變化正在改寫農業的規則。

我們需要另一條途徑。

Farming is always going to be at the mercy of Mother Nature,

最後，讓我們談談我們的星球。

but climate change is rewriting the rules of farming as we speak.

餵養牛、豬和雞用到的土地，

We need another way.

比做其他任何事的都要多。

Lastly, our planet.

約三分之一的土地，27%，

We dedicate more of this Earth to feeding cows, pigs and chickens

大約相當於南北美面積之和。

than we do to anything else.

用於飼養牲畜。

About a third of this planet, 27 percent,

而此刻，這些都可以被細胞農業所改變。

roughly equivalent to all of North and South America combined,

還記得我剛剛說的嗎？和生產牛肉相比， 細胞製肉所需要的土地資源要少99%。

is dedicated to raising livestock.

Now, this could all change with cellular agriculture.

讓我們這樣想：牧場不能被建造成垂直的， 但細胞培養系統可以。

Remember how I said it would require 99 percent less land

如果我們可以少使用一半或四分之一的土地，

to produce cultured meat versus beef?

Well, think about it: ranching can't go vertical, but cell culture can.

但依然滿足全球的蛋白質供應需求，

那我們就可以發揮想象力，去利用剩餘的土地了。

And if we can alleviate half, even a quarter, of this land

突然間，我們擁有了幹大事的可能性，

and meet the global demand for protein,

比如恢復那些為了養牛而被砍伐的亞馬遜雨林，

well, imagine what we can do with the rest.

Suddenly, it becomes possible to choose to do things

或是重振被牛群、玉米和大豆佔據的生態系統，

like restore the Amazon rainforest, which we continue to clear-cut for cattle,

又或者，將被侵佔的土地還給原住民們，

or revive other ecosystems that have been colonized by cows, corn and soy.

這樣他們就能再次擁有祖傳的美食。

Or return stolen lands to Indigenous peoples,

聯合國認為，為了抵抗氣候變化，

who can finally reclaim their ancestral foodways.

我們需要恢復與中國面積相當的自然環境。

The United Nations says that we will have to restore nature

細胞農業使得這一切變得可能。

on land the size of China

我們不僅可以為土地減負，促進它們的恢復，

if we are to achieve climate resilience.

還可以在減少溫室氣體排放的情況下， 生產出我們熟知並熱愛的食物。

Cellular agriculture actually puts this on the table.

Not only could we alleviate land for restoration,

通過養育細胞，在氣候變化的大環境下，

we can also create the products we know and love at a fraction of the emissions.

我們依然可以真正地積極設想農業的未來。

By farming cells, we could actually proactively envision agriculture

不僅僅只是肉。

事實上，通過生物工程，

理論上我們可以利用細胞生產出任何動植物製品。

for a climate-changed world.

And it’s not just meat.

Actually, by engineering biology,

香草不需要來自於雨林，

we could theoretically grow anything that might come from plants or animals

蛋白不一定要和蛋黃同時出現，

from cells instead.

鵝肝醬不再源於虐待，

Vanilla doesn’t have to be rainforest farmed.

我們不再從動物的背上摘下羽毛，

Egg whites don’t have to come with a yolk.

或從桑蚕的家中奪取絲綢。

Foie gras can be completely cruelty-free,

實際上，在日常生活中， 我們已經在使用細胞農業的產品了，

and leather and silk don't have to come off the back of an animal

只是量非常小罷了。

or the home of a silkworm.

一些維生素、香料和酶正是來自於細胞。

In fact, we already consume cellular agriculture products

in our everyday lives,

just in supersmall quantities.

例如，凝乳酶，一類用於將牛奶轉變為 凝乳和乳清從而製作奶酪的酶，

Several vitamins, flavors and enzymes are already made in cell cultures.

以前來自於小牛的第四個胃的胃壁。

In fact, rennet, which is the set of enzymes used

to turn milk into curds and whey for cheese-making,

1990年，來源於細胞的類似產品進入了市場，

used to come from the stomach lining of the fourth stomach of calves,

用的是一種關鍵的酶， chymosin（凝乳酶的一種）。

baby cows.

而今天，大約30年後，

And in 1990, a cell-cultured version hit the market.

用於製作奶酪的凝乳酶， 90%都來自於細胞，而不是小牛。

A version of the key enzyme, chymosin.

And today, only 30-ish years later,

現在，我們來想象一下，

90 percent of rennet used for cheese-making

如果我們從像凝乳酶這樣的小體積、高價值的產品 擴展到像牛奶這樣的日常商品，

came from a bioreactor instead of a calf.

世界將會變成什麼樣子？

Now, imagine what might happen

if we expand beyond these small-volume, high-value products like rennet

嗯，這一切已經開始了。

現在，你可以買到通過細胞農業生產出的冰淇淋，

into commodity-level products like milk.

而同時，它也是由真正的乳製品製成的。

Well, it's getting started.

這“牛奶”並不來自於牛，

Today, you can buy ice cream -- real dairy ice cream --

而是來自於電腦程序。

that was produced by cellular agriculture.

從開源數據庫裡，科學家們查到了 用於產生乳清蛋白的基因，

This is cows milk that never came from a cow.

他們將這段基因插入木霉菌的DNA裡。

It came from a computer.

The gene for whey protein was looked up in an open-source database, printed

接下來的步驟類似於釀酒， 釀酒時，我們用糖分餵養酵母，

酵母就在一個大的不鏽鋼容器裡為我們釀造出酒。

and then inserted into the DNA of an organism called trichoderma.

而在這裡，我們用糖分餵養這種特殊的木霉菌，

Now, just like in brewing, where we feed sugar to yeast

這些木霉菌就產生乳清蛋白，

然後我們就可以將這些乳清蛋白 放進酸奶、奶油奶酪和冰淇淋裡。

to brew alcohol in a big stainless steel fermenter,

we feed sugar to this modified trichoderma

現在我得承認，我剛剛說的是相對來說比較容易的。

and out comes whey proteins that we can put in yogurt,

cream cheese and ice cream.

因為幾十年以來，我們都在改變 微生物，讓它們為我們生產蛋白質。

Now, I have to admit that maybe this is the easy stuff,

而生產肉類所需要的組織工程技術， 是近年來的科研成果。

relatively speaking.

I mean, we have been modifying microorganisms to make proteins for us

動物細胞比微生物要更挑剔，

for decades now.

And tissue engineering, which is what would be needed for meat production,

而大規模地養殖動物細胞 並讓它們形成三維結構絕非易事。

is a lot newer science.

I mean, animal cells are just a lot more finicky than microbes in cell culture,

但我們已經很接近成功了。

2013年，生產這樣一個漢堡要花費25萬歐元，

and growing a lot of animal cells and achieving three dimensionality

is just no easy feat.

But we're getting there.

而現在，據估計，最便宜的細胞製肉 只要50美元一磅。

Back in 2013,

it cost 250,00 euros to produce this hamburger,

and today, I've seen estimates of cell-cultured meats

那是十年前價格的兩萬七千分之一。

cost as low as $50 per pound.

細胞製肉的價格只會越來越低，

That's one twenty-seven-thousandth of what it was less than a decade ago.

而動物製肉的價格會越來越高。

And I can really only see the price of cultured meat coming down,

設想一下，我們現在還處於 細胞製肉的研究與開發的早期階段。

隨著科技的突破，

and I can only see the price of meat from animals going up.

例如循環利用培養液、減少生長因子的花費、 或是提高體外培養的細胞密度，

I mean, think about it -- we’re still in the early days of R and D.

As scientific breakthroughs are made,

這條價格曲線還會繼續下行。

like recycling growth medium, reducing the cost of growth factors

與此同時，由於經濟補助，動物製肉的 價格已經被人為控制在很低的水平。

and achieving higher cell density in vitro,

this curve is still going to go down.

這並不能反映出公共衛生和環境所付出的代價。

Meanwhile, the price of meat from animals is already artificially low

而且，考慮到新冠疫情、非洲豬瘟 和氣候變化對地球的影響，

due to heavy subsidization.

It does not reflect the cost to the public health

or to the environment.

動物製肉的價格還會持續上漲。

And, in a world changed by COVID, African swine fever

事實上，如果公平競爭，我認為細胞製肉和 動物製肉的價格很快就會在同一水平線上。

and a changing climate,

the price of meat from animals can only go up.

一方面，動物農業得到了公共資金和政府的大力支持；

In fact, I think that price parity would be well within reach

if it were an even playing field.

另一方面，細胞製肉是一項很有前途的技術，

On one hand, we have animal agriculture,

which is so heavily supported by public funding and government support.

但任然需要人們進行集中研發， 並需要很多基礎設施和培訓支持，

On the other hand, we have this very promising technology,

而現在，這一切都完全被私營部門和市場力量所控制。

which requires very intensive R and D

and needs a lot of infrastructure and training support

說實話，如果我們放任這一技術完全被市場掌控，

but is left entirely in the hands of the private sector and market forces.

我並不認為我剛剛說的那些美好的事情， 比如恢復亞馬遜雨林，會真的發生。

In fact, I don't think any of the wonderful things

I just described about rewilding the Amazon and so on will happen

細胞農業真的很可能會失敗，

if we leave this technology solely in the hands

而這並不是因為這一技術不可靠，

of technology and market forces.

而是因為我們沒有想清楚要怎樣處理 所有權、知識產權保護、管理和政策這些問題，

There's a real chance that cellular agriculture could fail,

and it won't be because the science doesn't add up.

也就是使命驅動型企業的企業管理問題。

It'll be because we didn't think about what ownership should look like

而我們需要小心和周全地思考 要怎樣輔助這項技術的發展，

or IP protection

or governance or policy --

you know, the business side of mission-driven businesses.

這樣我們可以將它對世界的正面影響最大化。

And we're going to have to be very careful and thoughtful

今天我站在這裡， 因為我覺得動物製品真的很厲害，

about what this technology needs around it

so we can maximize the positive impact that it will have on this world.

如果你想找到能取代動物蛋白的植物蛋白，

你可能會感到焦頭爛額：

Look, I'm here today because animal products are just amazing,

長且富有彈性的奶酪， 奶香四溢的奶蛋餅，蓬鬆的蛋白霜，

and you would be hard-pressed to find proteins in the plant world

that can do what animal proteins can do:

肉和海鮮那無與倫比的濃郁鮮味……

long, stretchy cheeses, creamy custards, fluffy meringues,

不論動物蛋白有多麼美妙，

the incredibly rich umami flavors that you can find in meat and seafood ...

它們只是不再需要來源於動物。

的確，要完全實現這一技術的潛能， 我們還有很長的一段路要走，

But despite how amazing animal proteins are,

而我們需要實驗室裡和實驗室外的獨創性。

they just don't need to come from animals anymore.

And yes, we've got a long way to go

但讓我們來想想我們將得到什麼。

to realize the potential of this technology,

我們將有機會迎來一次人類的大轉型，

and it's going to take ingenuity both inside of the lab and outside of it, too.

But think about what we get in return.

就像一萬兩千年前人類從狩獵到農業的轉型那樣。

We get a chance to usher in a transformation as big for humanity

我們將進入一個全方位富足的新時代。

as our transformation from hunting to agriculture some 12,000 years ago.

從我個人的角度來講，我的欣喜也來自小小的私心，

This could be a new era of abundance in so many different ways.

因為我可以去嘗試我從未想象過的食物，

因為細胞農業為烹飪帶來了創意。

I'm personally most selfishly excited for the food products

自從我們的祖先很久以前發現了發酵的方法， 我們並沒有再提出很多的創意。

that I can't even fathom today,

because this is really a new tool for culinary creativity as well.

我的意思是，

在我們掌握發酵的方法之前，

I mean, we haven't really seen this

since our ancestors discovered fermentation a while back.

當我們看著一杯牛奶，

我們不會想到要將它變得又硬又臭，還發著霉。

What I mean by that is,

we could have never looked at a glass of milk before we fermented foods

也就是說，我們並不能預見奶酪的存在，

更別提現在我們擁有的數百種奶酪。

and wanted it to be hard and stinky and moldy.

類似的，肉現在仍然是由動物的身體定義的，

You know, we could have never envisioned cheese

or the hundreds of varieties of cheese that we have today.

我們依舊稱其為不同部位的肉。

但如果我們能直接從細胞長出肉，

Similarly, meat is still defined by the body of an animal.

“什麼是肉”這個問題的答案將被完全改變。

We still describe it as cuts of meat.

肉可以是薄片，可以是透明的，

But if we can grow meat from cells,

suddenly the boundaries for what meat can be will totally change.

甚至可以是液態；

肉可以是脆的，也可以是起泡的。

Meat could be thin and translucent.

漢堡是基線，而香腸只是一個起點，

It could be liquid.

It could be crunchy, it could be bubbly.

而通過細胞農業，我們也將做出 比炸雞塊還要有意思一千倍的食物。

Burgers are the baseline and sausages are just a starting point,

讓我們大膽想象食物的未來。

and nuggets are nowhere near what's possible with cellular agriculture.

謝謝大家。

（鼓掌聲）

Let's dream up a bigger, bolder future of food.

Thank you.

(Applause)