Naomi Shimada: Tips for reclaiming your peace of mind online | TED

Translator: Claudia Ríos Reviewer: Servizo de Normalización Lingüística

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, welcome.

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Ola, benvidos e benvidas.

You are watching a TED interview series

Estás vendo a serie de entrevistas TED chamada

called How to Deal with Difficult Feelings.

“Como afrontar sentimentos difíciles”.

I’m Cloe Shasha Brooks, your host and a curator at TED.

Son Cloe Shasha Brooks, a túa anfitrioa e curadora en TED,

And today we'll be focusing specifically on anxiety.

e hoxe centrarémonos especificamente na ansiedade.

So first I'll be speaking with author and model Naomi Shimada

Primeiro falarei coa escritora e modelo Naomi Shimada

about the anxiety associated with social media.

sobre a ansiedade asociada ás redes sociais.

She coauthored a book called “Mixed Feelings:

É coautora do libro “Sentimentos enfrontados:

Exploring the emotional impact of our digital habits."

explorando o impacto emocional dos nosos hábitos dixitais”.

It's all about how the internet has created a new layer

Fala de como Internet creou

of perfectionist pressure on our lives

unha nova capa de presión perfeccionista na nosa vida

and how we can better manage our relationship with our online worlds.

e de como podemos xestionar mellor a nosa relación co mundo virtual.

Hello, Naomi. Great to see you.

Ola, Naomi. Alégrome de verte.

Naomi Shimada: Hello, Cloe, great to see you, too.

NS: Ola, Cloe. Eu tamén me alegro.

I'm honored to be here.

É unha honra estar aquí.

CSB: Oh, well, thanks for joining us.

CBS: Ben, grazas por acompañarnos.

So, Naomi, you have written and spoken

Naomi, tes escrito e falado moito

about the relationship between social media and anxiety a whole bunch,

sobre a relación entre as redes sociais e a ansiedade,

such as the anxiety to post online or not to post.

como a ansiedade por publicar ou non publicar.

So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Pódesnos falar un pouco máis sobre isto?

NS: So I always want to start by saying, even though I have written about it,

NS: Sempre me gusta comezar dicindo que, aínda que escribín sobre o tema,

I still don't really feel like an expert because this is just --

non me sinto realmente coma unha experta, porque isto é só…

I always want to decenter my voice as an expert

non quero ser considerada unha experta,

because I'm just feeling this out like everyone else.

porque só o estou vivindo coma unha persoa calquera.

But in my experience,

Pero na miña experiencia,

social media and anxiety are connected,

as redes sociais e a ansiedade están conectadas,

you know, or social media exacerbates anxious feelings.

as redes sociais intensifican os sentimentos de ansiedade.

It exacerbates the human condition.

Exacerban a condición humana,

And so things that we may have insecurities and anxieties around,

e tamén aqueles aspectos que nos crean máis inseguridade ou angustia como,

like, you know, our relationships, our bodies, our work,

xa sabes, as nosas relacións, o noso corpo, o noso traballo,

the things that make up our sense of self,

aquilo que constitúe a noción de nós mesmos.

I think the anxiety we feel

Creo que a ansiedade que sentimos

or we can feel when we use social media can sometimes act as a marker

ou que podemos sentir cando usamos as redes sociais, ás veces,

pode actuar coma un indicador dos aspectos nos que precisamos traballar

for things that show us where we need to do work

or where we feel insecure.

ou cos que nos sentimos… inseguros e inseguras.

And sometimes it's just a message being reflected back to us.

E, ás veces, é só unha mensaxe reflectida en nós mesmos.

And also, like I said, social media exacerbates the human condition.

Ademais, como xa dixen, as redes sociais exacerban a condición humana.

You know, as humans,

Como seres humanos,

I think we so often just want to be loved and cared for and seen and adored

creo que só queremos ser amados, coidados, vistos e adorados,

or just acknowledged.

ou simplemente recoñecidos.

So social media has also become, you know, our main mode of communication,

Así que… as redes sociais tamén se converteron, xa sabes,

na nosa principal vía de comunicación,

our method of work.

no noso método de traballo.

Some of those things, those lines can start to become very blurred.

Algunhas destas cousas, esas liñas, poden empezar a ser moi borrosas.

CSB: Absolutely.

CSB: Totalmente.

Yeah, and in addition to making lives look shiny and perfect,

Si, e ademais de facer que as vidas parezan brillantes e perfectas,

social media also seems to fuel a lot of FOMO, or fear of missing out.

as redes sociais parecen alimentar moito

o “FOMO” ou “medo a non decatarse de algo”.

And I'm curious what you'd suggest for people who experience

Teño curiosidade por saber que lle suxerirías á xente

que experimenta moita ansiedade ao ver vídeos ou imaxes

a lot of anxiety from seeing videos and images

of other people having a ton of fun and,

doutra xente pasándoo ben e que non sabe como xestionala.

you know, not knowing how to deal with that.

NS: I think, like I said slightly earlier,

NS: Creo, como xa dixen,

the feelings of anxiety when they come up,

que cando nos xorden os sentimentos de ansiedade

like, what is that message, you know,

debemos preguntarnos: “cal é a mensaxe?”

taking that step back and being, like, why do I feel this way?

Dar un paso atrás e pensar: “por que me sinto así?“,

Why is this making me feel like this?

“por que isto fai que me sinta así?“, e tratar de facer unha interpretación.

And kind of reading into it.

And in my personal experience,

Na miña experiencia persoal,

the thing that works for me

o que me funciona a min,

is just taking a step back, taking a moment,

é dar un paso atrás, parar un momento.

you know, if something is making me feel bad,

Se algo me está facendo sentir mal,

for example, if social media --

por exemplo, se as redes sociais…

if we thought of it as a substance, for example,

Se pensamos nelas coma unha substancia, por exemplo…

if something was making you feel bad, what would you do about it?

Se algo che está facendo mal,

que farías ao respecto?, deixarías de usalo?

Would you stop using it?

You know, I think there's levels to this because sometimes, you know,

Considero que hai niveis porque, en ocasións,

we may have work now that is so intertwined with social media

podemos ter un traballo que está moi vinculado coas redes sociais,

and it can't just be like, oh, stop using it.

e non podes dicir “boh, deixo de usalas”.

And I know that there's a spectrum.

Eu sei que existe un espectro de posibilidades.

And I'm also navigating this constantly myself

Eu mesma estou navegando por el constantemente porque,

when as a public-facing person,

como persoa pública,

my job is so intertwined with social media

o meu traballo está moi relacionado coas redes sociais

and it's something I want to do less and less.

e é algo que quero facer cada vez menos.

So I'm navigating that kind of boundary for me all the time.

Así que estou oscilando entre estes límites continuamente.

So it's just negotiating,

Trátase de negociar:

sometimes it's not as clear cut, you know,

ás veces non é tan claro,

it may for you start as take the weekends off, or you know,

podes comezar collendo as fins de semana libres ou, sabes,

I actually personally most of the time don't have social media on my phone.

realmente, eu a maioría do tempo non teño redes sociais no meu teléfono.

And just when I have to do something for work,

Só as uso cando teño que facer algo de traballo.

that's when I interact with it,

especially this year that's been so heavy, you know,

Especialmente este ano tan intenso,

and where there is no "off" button

no que non hai un botón de “apagar” e cada día trae malas noticias,

and every new day bringing such bad news,

like, I'm a very sensitive person,

porque son unha persoa moi sensible,

so I have to do the things I know that I need to take care of myself,

así que teño que facer o que sei que necesito

para coidar de min, e non é desprazarme pola pantalla.

which is not scroll.

Also, I've had an injury in my hand,

Alén diso, tiven unha lesión na man,

which means I can't actually scroll,

o que significa que realmente non podo facelo

so I'm like, "This is a sign!

así que estou en plan:

I'm just not supposed to be interacting like that right now."

“É un sinal! Non debo estar nas redes arestora”.

So just listening and knowing

Polo tanto, escóitate e decátate

that you don't have to fall under the pressure.

de que non tes que ceder ante a presión.

Like, I think so often we think that if we don't post,

Creo que moitas veces pensamos que se non publicamos,

we don't exist.

non existimos.

Our existence, you know --

A nosa existencia… sabes?

we only exist when other people see us existing.

Só existimos cando outras persoas nos ven existir.

Like, that, that whole line, like,

Como pensar que

"Oh, if you didn't post about it, it didn't happen."

“Oh, se non publicaches algo, non pasou”.

That concept.

Esa idea.

We've started to internalize, you know,

Comezamos a interiorizar,

especialmente a miña xeración de millenials, a xeración Z,

especially my generation of millennials, gen-Z,

like, if you didn't post it, it didn't happen.

que se non o publicaches, non pasou.

And so it's just like going back and being like, OK, is that true?

Daquela, abonda con recuar e dicir: “a ver, iso é certo?”.

Why do I feel the need to share this?

“Por que sinto a necesidade de compartir isto?”.

And asking those questions.

E formularme estas preguntas. Iso é o que fago.

And that's what I do.

So like I said, I'm not an expert,

Como dixen, non son unha experta,

I too I'm working this out and every day feels totally different.

eu tamén estou traballando nisto, e cada día é totalmente diferente.

But asking those questions is a great place to start.

Pero... facerse estas preguntas é un gran punto de partida.

CSB: Thank you for that.

CSB: Moitas grazas.

So we have a question from the audience.

Temos unha pregunta da audiencia. Ímola ver.

Let's bring that up.

OK, so related to this, from Facebook,

Vale, moi relacionado con isto, dende Facebook:

"What question should we be asking ourselves

“Que debemos preguntarnos a nós mesmos

before we post on social media?"

antes de publicar nas redes sociais?“.

NS: So I like to ask myself, like, why do I want to share this right now?

NS: A min... gústame preguntarme: “por que quero compartir isto?”.

Is this something --

“É isto algo…?”.

as a person that has grown up on the internet, on social media,

Como persoa que medrou con Internet, nas redes sociais,

so often how I validated myself and my sense of self

a miúdo a forma na que me validaba a min mesma e a miña identidade

was posting something and people reacting to it.

era publicando algo e que a xente reaccionara.

And I think that's just very murky territory.

E creo que este é un terreo moi turbio.

I think like, you know,

Penso: “por que sinto a necesidade de compartir isto?”.

why do I feel the need to share this?

Is this something that feels also private to me?

“É … privado?”.

You know, in my opinion, on whether,

Na miña opinión, supoño,

and I guess, you know, I have not the biggest social media following,

(non teño moitos seguidores nas redes sociais,

but a social media following,

pero teño uns cantos),

that sometimes, when I'm like, does that person, for me,

ás veces pregúntome…

“esta persoa....

does my family member want to be shown online, for example,

este familiar meu quere aparecer nas redes?“, por exemplo,

like, or is this a private moment?

ou: “é este un momento privado?”.

I think navigating, like, do I feel not good about myself right now

Ou... podo non me sentir ben comigo mesma mentres estou navegando

and is posting a picture of myself looking, like, hot,

e publicar unha foto miña parecendo sexi,

or whatever the equivalent of looking really happy --

ou o que sexa equivalente a parecer moi feliz.

I think sometimes so often we post about the things that we are yearning for,

Creo que ás veces publicamos sobre cousas que arelamos,

whether that's attention, love, craving.

xa sexa atención, amor, desexo...

And I think there's deeper underlying messages

Creo que… ás veces hai mensaxes subxacentes máis profundas

behind posting sometimes, you know,

detrás de cada publicación,

and that it is a projection of the things that we want in our lives,

e que son proxeccións das cousas que queremos nas nosas vidas,

for example, posting photos of people you want better relationships with

por exemplo, cando colgamos fotos de persoas

coas que queremos unha mellor relación ou..., xa sabes,

or, you know,

there's a big spectrum of experience.

hai unha gran variedade de experiencias.

But for me, I just try to ask myself,

Pero para min... só trato de preguntarme:

why do I feel the need to make this public right now?

“por que necesito facer isto público agora?,

Is this something that I am proud of?

“é algo do que estou orgullosa?“.

And it's no critique.

E non é unha crítica.

This is really questions that are just a gauge where I'm at

Son preguntas que indican onde estou

or where someone else is at with it.

ou onde pode estar alguén máis.

Like, is this something that actually

É como...

I just need to pay attention to in my own life privately,

“É algo ao que lle debo prestar máis atención na miña propia vida en privado?”

of, like, this is something I should be working on or thinking about,

Debería traballar ou pensar sobre isto,

hai preguntas máis profundas sobre o contexto que,

or there's just deeper questions about context,

creo eu, son importantes.

I think, that are important.

CSB: Yeah, yeah.

CSB: Claro, claro.

And I think as we're now at our final question,

E penso que estamos xa na nosa última pregunta,

which is something that I think is related to what you're saying

que ten que ver co que estás dicindo

around when to post or not to post,

sobre cando publicar ou non publicar,

but from a different angle, which is, you know,

pero dende un ángulo diferente, que é:

a lot of people have anxiety about whether or not to post

moitas persoas senten ansiedade sobre mostrar ou non

their social justice activism on their accounts

o seu activismo social nas súas contas

and regardless of the activism they might be already doing

independentemente do activismo que poidan facer fóra das redes.

outside of social media, right?

And some people just find it performative.

Algúns simplemente o ven como algo performativo,

But at the same time, there was a fear of looking apathetic

pero ao mesmo tempo, existe o medo a parecer apático

if people are not posting about social justice on social media.

se non publicas sobre xustiza social nas redes.

So how do you suggest people deal with that anxiety

Como lle suxires á xente

que se enfronte a esa ansiedade e reflexione sobre o tema?

and think about that?

NS: I mean, that's definitely an anxiety of our generation, right?

NS: Sen dúbida, esa é unha preocupación da nosa xeración, non si?

Anxieties around posting about social justice.

Ansiedade por publicar sobre xustiza social.

I think the big question here is asking ourselves, like,

Creo que a gran cuestión aquí é preguntarnos a nós mesmos:

what am I doing in my own life?

“que estou facendo na miña propia vida?”.

You know, and again, there is a spectrum,

E, de novo, hai un espectro,

because there's a lot of people

porque hai moita xente

who are sharing a lot of important information via social media.

que comparte moita información importante a través das redes sociais,

So you have, like, organizers and then everybody else.

coma os activistas e moitos outros…

But if you are --

Pero se es…,

Once again, you know, I can't speak for everybody,

unha vez máis, non podo falar por todos e todas,

but just I think it's --

pero creo que...

Lin esta cita dunha activista de Oregón, chamada Grace Lee Boggs,

I read this quote by an activist in Oregon,

a lifetime organizer called Grace Lee Boggs,

unha activista de toda a vida,

and she said that, you know, that a lot of times in our lives

que dicía que moitas veces nas nosas vidas

we don't prioritize the importance of self-reflection and revolution.

non priorizamos a importancia da autorreflexión e da revolución.

And I think, you know, we so care about optics.

E creo que nos preocupamos moito polas aparencias.

We don't want people to think that we are racists, sizeist, sexist, etc.

Non queremos que a xente pense que somos racistas, gordofóbicos, sexistas etc.

But to not create and redo this kind of harm in the world,

Pero... para non crear e refacer este tipo de mal no mundo

we need to understand and really reflect

necesitamos entender e reflexionar

on these systems that we've all internalized to some effect.

sobre estes esquemas que temos interiorizados.

So to understand, like, where am I on the spectrum?

Entender onde estou no espectro e como me podo beneficiar.

How do I benefit?

All of these things actually really take time and deep, you know,

Todo isto realmente leva tempo

e esixe unha profunda autorreflexión e traballo.

self-reflection and work.

And that kind of questioning, I think,

E considero que este tipo de preguntas

is something that I find it helpful to be offline

son útiles para estar desconectada,

because I'm like, otherwise, I'm just listening

porque senón só escoito

to what everybody else is saying.

o que din os demais.

Like, are these my thoughts and my feelings

É como… son estas as miñas ideas e os meus sentimentos

or am I just internalizing

ou só estou interiorizando

what other people are just shouting into the atmosphere

o que outras persoas andan predicando por aí adiante

and into the internet?

e en Internet?

I think, there's moments where obviously,

Hai momentos nos que, obviamente…

a lot the uprisings in June would not have happened

Moitos dos levantamentos de xuño non ocorrerían

if it wasn't for the information that was shared

de non ser pola información que se compartiu,

and that action, of course, was so important.

e ese feito, por suposto, foi moi importante,

But I think there's different phases, you know.

pero creo que hai diferentes fases.

And when it's just about shame and optics,

E cando só se trata de vergoña e de aparentar...

that's not how we change the world.

non é así como se cambia o mundo.

For us to change the world,

Para mudarmos o mundo

we need to inhabit and act on these reflections.

precisamos vivir e actuar de acordo con estas reflexións.

So I think there are again, more questions to ask ourselves, like,

Así que creo que hai máis preguntas que nos debemos facer, como:

do I just not want people to think that I do this?

“non quero que a xente pense que fago isto?”.

And often we are in echo chamber of the people who follow us

E a miúdo estamos na cámara de eco das persoas que nos seguen

and people we follow, right?

e das persoas que seguimos, non?

So a lot of the times we're just sharing and shouting

Así que moitas veces só estamos compartindo e falando

into the atmosphere of people who have the same ideals as us.

con xente que ten os mesmos ideais ca nós.

And that energy can be used in a different way.

E esa enerxía pode ser empregada dunha maneira diferente.

And also sometimes inhibits, I think, real harder conversations from happening,

E ás veces tamén impide, penso eu, que se produzan conversas máis profundas,

because I think social media isn't often an intimate enough of a space

porque as redes sociais non adoitan ser un espazo o suficientemente íntimo

to be able to ask each other questions that we're afraid to ask.

para facérmonos esas preguntas que nos dan medo.

Or mistakes, it's not favorable to making mistakes anymore,

Ou os erros. Xa non é aceptable cometer erros.

which is my critique and sadness about social media.

Isto paréceme criticable e triste das redes sociais.

You know, our biggest fear is being called out for something.

O noso maior medo é que nos reprochen algo,

But this call-out culture, sometimes, not always,

pero esta cultura do reproche, ás veces, non sempre,

I understand its role and place in society,

si que entendo o seu papel e lugar na sociedade,

but sometimes doesn't allow for us

pero, ás veces, non nos permite ter conversas máis comprometidas

to have more engaged conversations around these systems

arredor destes esquemas que interiorizamos.

that we've internalized.

And we all make mistakes and we all have to learn

E todos cometemos erros, e todos temos que aprender,

and sometimes it doesn't allow for that to happen.

e ás veces non se nos permite que facelo.

CSB: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

CSB: Si, si, si.

Well, I think that's beautifully said

Creo que todo iso está moi ben contado

and we've come to the end of our time here.

e xa chegamos ao final do noso tempo,

But I am so grateful to you for this conversation, Naomi,

pero estou moi agradecida por esta conversa, Naomi,

and thank you for sharing all this.

e grazas por compartir todo isto.

I'll talk to you soon. Take care.

Falamos pronto. Cóidate.

NS: Thank you, Cloe and everyone.

NS: Grazas Cloe, grazas a todos.

Much love.

Moito amor.