Loretta J. Ross: Don't call people out -- call them in | TED

翻译人员: Tianyun Liu 校对人员: Bruce Wang

First of all, thank y'all for listening to me.

首先，感谢大家来听我的演讲。

I come to y'all because most Black women don't go to Klu Klux Klan rallies

我来这里，是因为绝大多数 黑人女性不会主动参加

三 K 党（奉行白人至上主义）集会。

on purpose.

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I did because it was my job; I monitored hate groups.

我确实因为工作参加过那种集会； 我要观察仇恨团体。

But I really wanted to find out

但我的确想知道

how people could hate strangers so much.

人们怎么会陌生人如此深仇大恨。

Mostly, I wanted to work for peace and justice.

通常，我想为和平和公正而工作。

But fortunately for me,

但很幸运，

my mentor at the time was the legendary civil rights leader Reverend C.T. Vivian,

我的导师是一位传奇的民权运动领袖， 科迪 ·廷德尔 · 维维安牧师（Reverend C. T. Vivian）。

who'd been an aide to Dr. Martin Luther King.

他曾是马丁 · 路德 · 金的助手。

And C.T. used to say,

科迪以前常说一句话：

"When you ask people to give up hate,

“你要求别人放下仇恨，

then you need to be there for them when they do."

就要在他们放下仇恨时陪伴他们。”

Now, at the time C.T. said those words,

在他说完这句话时，

I started muttering under my breath,

我就开始暗自嘀咕，

because you can't curse out a preacher, you know?

因为我们总不能当面 去骂一个牧师。对吧？

But his words didn't make any sense to me,

当时，我觉得他的话完全没道理，

because if the Klan hated Black folks,

因为如果三 K 党仇视黑人，

I was all right with hating them back.

那么我完全可以仇视回去。

Sounded OK to me.

在我看来，这样才合情合理。

But then something happened.

但接下来发生了一些事情。

It became my job to help people who were leaving hate groups,

帮助那些脱离仇恨团体的人 成为了我的工作。

and then once I got to know them,

然后，我开始尝试去了解这些人，

I couldn't hate them anymore.

我就再也无法恨他们了。

And then I got confused.

接着，我开始困惑。

I'm a survivor of racial violence, rape and incest,

我是一个种族暴力、 强奸和乱伦下的幸存者，

and I needed to find another moral compass for my life's work.

而需要为我一生的工作 找到另一个道德罗盘，

And that compass had to shift from hate to love.

它的指针必须由恨转到爱。

And so that improbable journey is why I'm here to talk to y'all today.

这个不太可能的过程便是我今天 来到这里和你们交谈的原因。

You know, because I really, really want to build a culture

因为我真的，真的想构建一种文化，

and a world

一个世界，

that invites people in instead of pushing them out.

一种欢迎人们融入 而非拒之门外的文化和世界。

It's called a "calling-in culture."

我称这种文化为 “关注-加入文化（calling-in culture）。”

Now, some people really do believe

现在，一些人真的相信：

that the only way to do human rights work is the way they want --

处理人权问题的唯一方式 就是他们自己的方式，

you know, my way or the highway.

也就是他们说什么就得是什么。

But the problem is, when many different people think many different thoughts

但问题是，人人都各有想法，

and they move in the same direction,

且他们都朝同一方向前进，

that's a movement.

这时就会形成一个运动；

But when many different people think one thought,

而所有人都观点一致，

and they move in the same direction,

且大家目标也一致，

that's a cult.

这时便会形成一种狂热。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And when you treat potential allies like enemies,

当你将潜在的同盟视为敌人时，

you're behaving like a cult,

你就成了狂热的一份子，

not the human rights movement.

而非人权运动。

My friend Dázon Dixon Diallo, who’s a very smart woman,

我的朋友达松 · 迪克森 · 迪亚洛

是一位非常聪明的女性。

says that she believes that calling in

她说她相信

“关注-加入（calling in）” 对 21 世纪 数字时代人权运动的意义

will be to this digital age human rights movement of the 21st century

what nonviolence was to the civil rights movement in the 20th century:

就如同非暴力抵抗对 20 世纪民权运动的意义。

a new way to understand how to truly achieve justice.

这是一个理解如何 真正取得公平的新方式。

It's not a matter of what we do, but how we do it.

这不关乎我们做什么， 而关乎我们怎么做。

Now, all of us know what calling out is --

现在，我们都知道 “指控（calling out）” 是什么。

our "cancel culture," as it's called --

这种文化也被称作 “取消文化（cancel culture）”。

you think somebody has done something wrong,

它表现为：你认为一个人犯了错，

you think they should be held accountable for it,

他就应该对此负责，

and you think they should be punished for it.

还应该因此接受惩罚。

So one of those calling-out examples is, "I can't believe you just said that.

举个例子：有人 “指控” 他人的时候，会这么说： “我简直不敢相信你会说那样的话。

You're racist, sexist, toxic, manipulative."

你有种族歧视、性别歧视。 你这个阴险恶毒的小人。”

With this approach, you've guaranteed one thing:

通过这种方式，你只确定了一件事：

with this blaming and shaming,

这种谴责和羞辱使得

you just invited them to a fight, not a conversation,

你将他们引入一场争斗而非对话，

because you're publicly humiliating them.

因为你公开地羞辱了他们。

Now, some people actually think call-outs should be used

现在，有人的确认为 “指控” 应该用来

to hold powerful people accountable,

让有权势的人对自己言论负责，

and there's a lot to that.

这种情况很多。

I mean, that's what the human rights movement has always done.

我的意思是，这就是人权运动总是在做的事。

But most people are calling others out out of fear.

但大多数人是出于恐惧而谴责别人。

Or they're feeling that they need to belong to something.

或者他们觉得自己需要属于某个团体。

And some people think that they'll feel better about themselves

还有一些人认为，贬低他人

if they put somebody else down.

会使他们的自我感觉更好。

And then there's too many people, in my opinion,

另外我认为，有太多的人想要通过

who think that they can become famous by defaming somebody else.

中伤他人来让他们自己出名。

Most of us want all of this violence to stop,

我们大多数人都希望停止所有这些暴力，

but we don't know where to begin.

但我们不知道从何开始。

And most of us stay silent

我们中的大多数保持沉默，

because we're afraid that we'll become the next target.

因为我们害怕自己会成为下一个目标。

So even if something feels unfair,

所以，即使感觉到有些事情并不公平，

we're silent.

我们依旧保持沉默。

And if you're unlucky enough to have something that you regretted

如果你非常不幸，

有一些你后悔发过的东西在手机或推特里，

captured on cell phone or in a tweet,

you're walking around with an unexploded gotcha bomb

这些东西就会像一颗未爆炸的定时炸弹，

just waiting to blow up your life or your career

等着炸毁你的人生、事业，

or your reputation.

或者你的名誉。

I guess I need to ask:

我想，我需要问一句：

How many of us here have done something in our past

我们在座有多少人

曾经做过一些会令自己现在坐立难安的事呢？

that could come back to haunt us?

One of my students once said,

我的一个学生曾经说过：

"A call-out is not an invitation for growth.

“指控并不是为了让你纠错从而获得成长，

It's the expectation that you've already grown."

而是认定你已经足够成熟，不能犯这种错。”

This is the culture we're trapped in now.

这就是现在困住我们的文化。

On the other hand,

从另一方面讲，

there is calling in.

我们还有“关注-加入（calling in）”。

"Calling in" is a phrase invented by Loan Tran,

这是萝安 · 特兰（Loan Tran） 发明的一个词。

and basically, a call-in is a call-out done with love.

简单来说，“关注-加入” 是带着关爱的 “指控”。

So when you think somebody has done something wrong

当你认为有人犯了错，

and you want to hold them accountable,

并且想让他们对此负责，

you don't react with anger or hate.

你不用愤怒或仇恨作为回应。

You just remain calm and look at them and say --

你只需要保持冷静并看着他们——

and you can do this online and in person, too --

在网上或者现实中也都可以这么做——

but you just look at them calmly, and you tell them,

但你要冷静地看着他们，然后你对他们说：

"That's an interesting viewpoint.

“这个观点很有趣。

Tell me more."

你再跟我讲一讲。”

With that, you've invited them into a conversation

你用这种方式， 邀请他们进入了一场对话，

instead of a fight.

也避免了一场争吵。

And you don't have to agree with somebody to offer them loving attention.

你并不需要 通过同意那些人的观点来表达善意。

All you're admitting at that moment

你只是承认在那一刻，

is that there's a possibility that they're as complicated as you are.

存在一种可能性， 即他们的想法跟你一样复杂。

And everybody deserves to be heard and to be respected.

每个人都值得被倾听、被尊重。

And if you use this call-in practice like I’m teaching,

如果你想实践我所说的 “关注-加入”，

what you'll do is several things.

你需要做以下几件事情。

First of all, you'll lead with love instead of anger

首先，你的出发点必须是爱， 而不是愤怒，

and allow somebody else to grow.

并且你要允许他人成长。

Secondly, it'll affirm your own inner empathy

其次，接受并邀请更多人进入你的世界。

and your compassion,

这是对你内在同理心和同情心的一种肯定。

and you'll feel so good about yourself when you learn that you can grow, too,

当你认识到自己也仍有成长的空间时，

in embracing and inviting more people into the world.

你会拥有极好的自我感觉。

And then the third thing is that you can call in your friends, your families,

第三，你可以与朋友、家人、邻居、同事等

your neighbors, your coworkers,

所有曾经伤害过你，让你放弃与之交流的人

all the people you might have given up on in the past

because of how they've hurt you.

重新交流。

Now, if you're going to embrace this calling-in practice,

现在，如果想要实践上述三点，

you need some preparation.

你需要做一些准备。

It begins with self-assessment.

自我评估是你要做的第一项准备。

First of all, you need to know your motives.

首先，你需要清楚自己的动机。

Why are you choosing to call somebody in or out?

为什么你选择与某人保持交流或断绝交流？

Are you in a healed enough space

你是否处在一个

for somebody else's feelings?

大到可以容纳他人感受的空间中？

If you're not, maybe you're not ready to do the calling in yet.

如果你的答案是否定的， 可能你还没有准备好与对立者交流。

But still, you have those options.

但你仍然有以下选择。

And I've taught these tactics to eighth-graders, to college students,

我曾向初二学生、大学生 乃至企业高管传授过这些策略。

to C-suite executives.

And as I said, they all feel better about themselves

就像我所说的，

他们从坚持自己能改变世界的乐观与希望中

for reaffirming their optimism

and their hope that they can make a difference in the world.

获得了更好的自我感受。

This is so, so important.

这非常非常重要。

And so, if you're not really ready to invest in somebody else's growth

如果你尚未准备好

通过鼓励交流来投入到某些人的成长中，

with a call-in,

or you don't want the inevitable fight if you call them out,

或者你并不想面对公开谴责他人后 带来的不可避免的争论，

there actually is a third option.

你还有第三个选择。

You can call on them to be a better person.

你可以通过“call on”他人使他们变得更好。

And this was a phrase created by Sonya Renee Taylor.

“Call on”是桑尼亚·芮妮·泰勒创造的一个词汇。

My favorite calling-on response

我最喜欢的“calling-on”回应

is to look the person dead in the eye,

是直视那个人的眼睛，

cock my head to the side, like I really care,

把我的头歪向一边，就像我真的认真在听，

and say, "I beg your pardon."

并说，“请再说一遍？”

And then I wait.

然后等待回应。

Many times, they'll start walking back their words

有很多次，这些人会收回他们的话，

just because I'm looking at them like they lost their minds.

仅仅因为我像看失智的人一样看着他们。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

We can use this calling-in, calling-out, calling-on approach

我们可以把“calling-in”“calling-out”“calling-on”

as part of the spectrum of responses we can make to each other,

三种方式作为我们回应他人的谱段的一部分。

and that's so, so important.

这非常非常的重要。

One time -- let me put it this way --

曾经有一次——让我这样来表述吧——

one time, I misgendered a student in my class.

有一次，我搞错了班里一名学生的性别。

And I froze in shame because I expected the student to jump down my throat,

我羞愧地僵在那儿 因为我觉得那个学生要暴跳如雷，

because misgendering somebody is a really big deal nowadays.

毕竟在当今社会弄错一个人的性别是件大事。

And instead, this student looked at me and offered me grace by saying,

但相反，那个学生看着我 并用下面一句话给了我台阶下：

"Oh, that's all right, professor. I misgender myself sometimes."

“没关系，教授。 我有时也搞错我自己的性别。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

An 18-year-old. Showing me grace.

一个十八岁的人展示了他/她的宽容。

Now, I believe that one of the most effective expressions of calling-in

现在，我相信“calling-in”最有效的表达之一

is forgiveness.

就是宽恕。

And the most powerful example of radical forgiveness I've ever seen

关于彻底的宽恕，我曾见过的最有力的例子，

happened after the 2015 church massacre in Charleston, South Carolina,

发生在 2015 年南卡罗来纳州查尔斯顿的 教堂屠杀后。

where nine people were killed.

九个人在那场屠杀中丧失了性命。

And one of the victim’s sons, Chris Singleton,

一位受害者的儿子，Chris Singleton，

offered his mother's killer -- I mean, his mother's killer -- forgiveness.

宽恕了杀死他母亲的人。 是的，我说的是杀死他母亲的人。

And I can't get his words exactly right, but Chris basically said,

我无法一字一句转述他的话， 但大体上他想表达的是：

"Forgiveness is more powerful than people realize,

“宽恕比人们想象的更有力量，

because it lifts all of this stuff off of you.

因为它令你不受桎梏。

It's freedom -- freedom from revenge,

宽恕是自由——是不受复仇支配、

freedom from anger,

不受愤怒支配、

freedom from hatred."

不受仇恨支配的自由。”

Sadly, he was called out for saying that.

令人悲伤的是，他因为这些话被公开谴责。

I believe that it's very possible to use these strategies,

我相信使用我之前提过的 那些策略是非常有可能的，

so I'm going to tell you about my Uncle Frank.

所以我打算和你讲讲我的叔叔弗兰克。

He ain’t really my uncle but, you know,

他并不真的是我的叔叔，但你知道的，

he's still living so I can't call him out.

他仍然活着，所以我没法不认他。

Anyway.

不管怎样，

He came to a family reunion

他来参加一个家庭聚会

and decided to talk about Mexican Americans stealing jobs.

并决定谈论墨西哥裔美国人抢走工作机会的事。

And everybody had been chatting and eating quite happily

所有人都在相当开心地聊天、吃饭，

till his racism silenced the room.

直到他的种族主义令整个屋子陷入了沉默。

Most people buried their faces in their plate,

大多数人低着头看着盘子，

because this was Uncle Frank.

因为这是弗兰克叔叔。

This is what he does.

这就是他所做的事。

But I decided to respond, but not with anger.

但我决定予以回应，但不携带愤怒。

I kind of organized a few comments and asked him a question.

我大概组织了一下语言然后问了他一个问题。

"Uncle Frank, I know you.

“弗兰克叔叔，我了解你。

I love you.

我爱你。

I respect you.

我尊重你。

And what I know about you is that you'd run into a burning building

凭我对你的了解， 如果在你的能力范围之内，

and save somebody if you could.

你会冲进一个燃烧的建筑里救人。

And you wouldn't care what race that person is,

你不会关心那个人的种族，

you wouldn't care whether they were gay or an immigrant.

你不会在意他们是不是同性恋或移民。

So, Uncle Frank, that's the man I love and respect.

这就是我所敬爱的人。

So tell me: How can I reconcile that good Uncle Frank that I know you are

所以告诉我， 我该怎样将我所知道的那个友善的弗兰克叔叔

with the words that just came out of your mouth?"

和刚刚你说出的那些话联系起来？”

You haven't called him in. You haven't called him out.

你没让他站到你的一边，也没拒绝他，

You called on him to decide how he's going to be.

你让他自己决定他的选择。

And with this approach, he's less likely to become defensive,

当你采用这种方式时， 他不太可能对你产生戒备心，

because you haven't actually attacked him.

因为实际上你并没有攻击他。

And while he's organizing what to say,

当他在组织语言时，

you've affirmed that he has options about how he wants to be,

你已经申明了 他可以选择他想成为一个怎样的人，

especially in his niece's eyes and his family's eyes.

尤其是在他外甥女和他家人的眼里。

But most importantly, the third thing you've achieved

最重要的是，

is that you did not let his bigotry go unchallenged,

你没有让他的偏执狭隘，

and that was witnessed by the entire family:

毫无拘束地展示在整个家族面前。

how you stand up to bigotry at a family reunion

全家人都看到了你是如何在一次家庭聚会上

without hate, argument and throwing over the table.

不夹杂仇恨，不以争吵和扔东西的方式， 起身反驳了一个有偏见的人。

Now, anybody can learn these tactics, as I've said,

就像我所说的，每个人都可以学会这些策略。

and we really need to understand that we can offer people forgiveness

我们真的需要认识到我们可以宽恕别人，

and a chance to redeem themselves from their mistakes.

给他们一个机会将自己从错误中救赎出来。

Somebody gave us a chance to grow,

一些人给了我们成长的机会，

and we can offer that to others.

我们也可以给其他人成长的机会。

So I invite you to join me in this calling-in culture,

所以我邀请你们加入“calling-in culture”，

this calling-in world that we're building.

加入这个我们正在建造的世界。

I think you will have a lot of joy and satisfaction in it,

我认为你们将在这个世界 获得很多快乐和满足感，

like I've found.

就像我一样。

We don't actually risk anything,

事实上我们并没有失去什么的风险，

because all we risk losing is our pain.

因为我们可能失去的是痛苦。

And then you'll learn the most powerful lesson I've learned

然后你就会学到我在五十年社会正义活动家生涯中

from five decades of being a social justice activist:

学到的最重要的一课：

fighting hate should be fun.

与仇恨作斗争是很有趣的。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It's being a hater that sucks.

成为一个怀恨者才是糟糕的事。

Thank y'all.

谢谢大家。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声和欢呼声）