Loretta J. Ross: Don't call people out -- call them in | TED

譯者: Pooi Ling Ng 審譯者: Helen Chang

First of all, thank y'all for listening to me.

首先，感謝大家的聆聽。

I come to y'all because most Black women don't go to Klu Klux Klan rallies

我來是因為大多數黑人女性 不會故意參加三K黨集會。

on purpose.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

I did because it was my job; I monitored hate groups.

我則因工作所需：我監控仇恨團體。

But I really wanted to find out

但我真想弄清楚

how people could hate strangers so much.

人類何以會如此地憎恨陌生人。

Mostly, I wanted to work for peace and justice.

我主要想致力於和平與正義。

But fortunately for me,

然而我很幸運，

my mentor at the time was the legendary civil rights leader Reverend C.T. Vivian,

當時的導師是傳奇的民權領袖 科迪·廷德爾·維維安牧師（CT），

who'd been an aide to Dr. Martin Luther King.

他曾是馬丁路德金博士的助手。

And C.T. used to say,

CT 過去常說，

"When you ask people to give up hate,

「如果你要求人們放棄仇恨，

then you need to be there for them when they do."

在他們放棄仇恨時 就必須陪伴他們身旁。」

Now, at the time C.T. said those words,

當 CT 說完這些，

I started muttering under my breath,

我開始低聲咕噥，

because you can't curse out a preacher, you know?

因為不能詛咒傳道人，知道嗎？

But his words didn't make any sense to me,

但他的話對我來說毫無道理，

because if the Klan hated Black folks,

因為如果三K黨恨黑人，

I was all right with hating them back.

我也可以恨他們。

Sounded OK to me.

我那時的想法是如此。

But then something happened.

但後來發生了一些事情，

It became my job to help people who were leaving hate groups,

幫助人們離開仇恨團體 變成了我的工作。

and then once I got to know them,

一旦我了解他們，

I couldn't hate them anymore.

我就再也無法恨他們了。

And then I got confused.

然後我便迷茫了。

I'm a survivor of racial violence, rape and incest,

我是種族暴力、強姦 和亂倫的倖存者，

and I needed to find another moral compass for my life's work.

我需要為畢生的工作 找到另一道德指南針。

And that compass had to shift from hate to love.

那個指南針必須從仇恨轉向愛。

And so that improbable journey is why I'm here to talk to y'all today.

因此，這難以置信的旅程就是 我今天在這裡與大家交談的原因。

You know, because I really, really want to build a culture

我真的很想建立一種文化

and a world

和一個世界，

that invites people in instead of pushing them out.

邀請人們進來，而不是把他們趕出去。

It's called a "calling-in culture."

它被稱為「請來文化」。

Now, some people really do believe

如今有些人確信

that the only way to do human rights work is the way they want --

做人權工作的唯一途徑 就是按照他們的方式。

you know, my way or the highway.

照我的方式，否則甭談。

But the problem is, when many different people think many different thoughts

但問題是，當許多不同的人 有許多不同的想法，

and they move in the same direction,

並且他們朝著同一個方向移動時，

that's a movement.

就是個運動。

But when many different people think one thought,

但是當許多不同的人思考一個想法，

and they move in the same direction,

並且他們朝著同一個方向前進時，

that's a cult.

那就是一種邪教。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And when you treat potential allies like enemies,

倘若你把潛在的盟友 當作敵人來對待，

you're behaving like a cult,

你的行為就像是邪教，

not the human rights movement.

而不是人權運動。

My friend Dázon Dixon Diallo, who’s a very smart woman,

我的朋友達宗·迪克森·迪亞洛 是一位非常聰明的女性。

says that she believes that calling in

她認為「請來」（calling in）將會是

will be to this digital age human rights movement of the 21st century

21 世紀數字時代的人權運動，

what nonviolence was to the civil rights movement in the 20th century:

如同非暴力運動 是 20 世紀的民權運動那樣，

a new way to understand how to truly achieve justice.

是一種真正實現正義的新方法。

It's not a matter of what we do, but how we do it.

問題不在於做什麼，而在於怎麼做。

Now, all of us know what calling out is --

我們都知道「指控」（calling out）

our "cancel culture," as it's called --

又名「取消文化」的意思。

you think somebody has done something wrong,

你認為人們應該為所做的錯事負責，

you think they should be held accountable for it,

and you think they should be punished for it.

你認為他們應該為此受到懲罰。

So one of those calling-out examples is, "I can't believe you just said that.

指控的例子之一是： 「我不敢相信你剛説的話。

You're racist, sexist, toxic, manipulative."

你是種族主義者、性別歧視者、 惡毒的人、操縱者。」

With this approach, you've guaranteed one thing:

這種做法確保了一件事：

with this blaming and shaming,

你的指責和羞辱

you just invited them to a fight, not a conversation,

招致他們對抗，而不是對談，

because you're publicly humiliating them.

因為你公開羞辱他們。

Now, some people actually think call-outs should be used

有些人真的認為應該用指控

to hold powerful people accountable,

來使掌權者負責，有很多事情要做。

and there's a lot to that.

I mean, that's what the human rights movement has always done.

我的意思是，這就是 人權運動一直以來做的事。

But most people are calling others out out of fear.

但大多數人是出於恐懼而指控他人；

Or they're feeling that they need to belong to something.

又或他們想要有歸屬感；

And some people think that they'll feel better about themselves

還有些人認為

透過貶低別人能夠自我感覺良好。

if they put somebody else down.

And then there's too many people, in my opinion,

在我看來有太多人

who think that they can become famous by defaming somebody else.

認為他們可以通過誹謗別人而出名。

Most of us want all of this violence to stop,

我們大多數人都希望 停止這些所有暴力行為，

but we don't know where to begin.

但我們不知道從哪裡開始。

And most of us stay silent

我們大多數人保持沉默，

because we're afraid that we'll become the next target.

因為我們害怕自己會成為下一個目標。

So even if something feels unfair,

因此，即使感覺有些不公平，

we're silent.

我們也會保持沉默。

And if you're unlucky enough to have something that you regretted

如果你不幸地被手機或推文

captured on cell phone or in a tweet,

捕捉到了讓你後悔的東西，

you're walking around with an unexploded gotcha bomb

那麼你就像是帶著 一顆未爆彈四處走動，

just waiting to blow up your life or your career

正等著炸毀你的生活、 你的事業或你的聲譽。

or your reputation.

I guess I need to ask:

我想我需要問：

How many of us here have done something in our past

「這裡有多少人在過去做過一些

that could come back to haunt us?

可能會再次困擾我們的事情？」

One of my students once said,

我的一個學生曾說：

"A call-out is not an invitation for growth.

「指控不邀請成長，

It's the expectation that you've already grown."

而是期望你已長成。」

This is the culture we're trapped in now.

這就是我們現在被困在其中的文化。

On the other hand,

另一方面就是請來。

there is calling in.

"Calling in" is a phrase invented by Loan Tran,

「請來」是羅恩·陳創造的詞。

and basically, a call-in is a call-out done with love.

基本上，請來是帶著愛的呼喚。

So when you think somebody has done something wrong

因此，當你認為某人做錯了事

and you want to hold them accountable,

並且想要追究他們的責任時，

you don't react with anger or hate.

你不要以憤怒或仇恨做出反應。

You just remain calm and look at them and say --

你必須保持冷靜，看著他們說，

and you can do this online and in person, too --

無論在網上和當面面對這件事，

but you just look at them calmly, and you tell them,

你只需冷靜地看著他們， 然後告訴他們：

"That's an interesting viewpoint.

「這是一個有趣的觀點。 請多告訴我一些。」

Tell me more."

With that, you've invited them into a conversation

這樣，你就邀請他們進行 對話而不是打架。

instead of a fight.

And you don't have to agree with somebody to offer them loving attention.

而且，你不必同意某人 才給予他們愛的關注。

All you're admitting at that moment

那一刻你承認的是

is that there's a possibility that they're as complicated as you are.

他們有可能和你一樣複雜，

And everybody deserves to be heard and to be respected.

以及每個人都應該被傾聽和被尊重。

And if you use this call-in practice like I’m teaching,

如果你像我教的那樣 使用這種請來的呼喚，

what you'll do is several things.

你要做的就是幾件事。

First of all, you'll lead with love instead of anger

首先，必須以愛而不是憤怒來領導，

and allow somebody else to grow.

允許其他人成長。

Secondly, it'll affirm your own inner empathy

其次，它會肯定你自己內在的同理心

and your compassion,

和慈悲心。

而且你會覺得自己很棒，一旦你了解

and you'll feel so good about yourself when you learn that you can grow, too,

擁抱和邀請更多的人進來 也會讓你自己成長。

in embracing and inviting more people into the world.

And then the third thing is that you can call in your friends, your families,

然後第三件事是你可以請來所有那些

your neighbors, your coworkers,

因過去曾傷害過你而被你放棄的

all the people you might have given up on in the past

朋友、家人、鄰居以及同事。

because of how they've hurt you.

Now, if you're going to embrace this calling-in practice,

現在，如果你要使用這請來的做法，

you need some preparation.

你需要做一些準備。

It begins with self-assessment.

它從自我評估開始。

First of all, you need to know your motives.

首先，你需要知道你的動機。

Why are you choosing to call somebody in or out?

你為什麼選擇請來或指控？

Are you in a healed enough space

你是否有足夠的空間 來照顧別人的感受？

for somebody else's feelings?

If you're not, maybe you're not ready to do the calling in yet.

如果沒有，也許你還沒準備好要請來。

But still, you have those options.

但是，你仍然有這些選擇。

And I've taught these tactics to eighth-graders, to college students,

我曾經教八年級學生、大學生

to C-suite executives.

以及公司高管使用這些策略。

And as I said, they all feel better about themselves

正如我所說，他們都 增加了對自己的好感，

for reaffirming their optimism

因為他們重新確認了樂觀的態度，

and their hope that they can make a difference in the world.

並希望自己能夠改變世界。

This is so, so important.

這是非常重要的。

And so, if you're not really ready to invest in somebody else's growth

如果你還沒有真正準備好通過請來

with a call-in,

來投資於其他人的成長，

or you don't want the inevitable fight if you call them out,

或者你不希望在請來的過程 產生不避要的爭吵，

there actually is a third option.

那麼實際上還有第三種選擇。

You can call on them to be a better person.

你可以呼籲他們成為更好的人。

And this was a phrase created by Sonya Renee Taylor.

這是索尼婭·蕾妮·泰勒 創造的短語。

My favorite calling-on response

我最喜歡的呼籲方式是

is to look the person dead in the eye,

死盯著對方的眼睛，

cock my head to the side, like I really care,

把頭偏向一邊，好像我真的很在乎，

and say, "I beg your pardon."

然後，我會說：「你說什麼？」 （表達驚訝或被冒犯的意思）

And then I wait.

過後，我就等待。

Many times, they'll start walking back their words

往往他們會收回所說的話，

just because I'm looking at them like they lost their minds.

只因為我看著他們 就像他們剛剛失去了理智。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We can use this calling-in, calling-out, calling-on approach

我們可以使用這些 請來、指控，或呼籲的方法，

as part of the spectrum of responses we can make to each other,

作為我們對彼此做出 反應的一部分，

and that's so, so important.

這是非常重要的。

One time -- let me put it this way --

有一次...讓我這樣說吧。

one time, I misgendered a student in my class.

有一次，我搞錯誤班上 一名學生的性別。

And I froze in shame because I expected the student to jump down my throat,

我羞愧地僵住了，因為我 以為那位學生會生氣，

because misgendering somebody is a really big deal nowadays.

還有現在錯誤判斷某人的性別 是一件非常大的事情。

And instead, this student looked at me and offered me grace by saying,

然而那位學生很有風度地看著我，說：

"Oh, that's all right, professor. I misgender myself sometimes."

「哦，沒關係，教授。 有時我自己會搞錯性別。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

An 18-year-old. Showing me grace.

一個 18 歲的孩子向我顯示風度。

Now, I believe that one of the most effective expressions of calling-in

現在，我相信最有效的 請來方式之一

is forgiveness.

就是寬恕。

And the most powerful example of radical forgiveness I've ever seen

我見過的最有力的寬恕的例子

happened after the 2015 church massacre in Charleston, South Carolina,

發生在 2015 年南卡羅來納州 查爾斯頓的教堂大屠殺之後，

where nine people were killed.

當時有 9 人喪生。

And one of the victim’s sons, Chris Singleton,

受害者之一的兒子 克里斯·辛格爾頓

offered his mother's killer -- I mean, his mother's killer -- forgiveness.

寬恕了殺害他母親的兇手。

And I can't get his words exactly right, but Chris basically said,

我無法逐字覆述他的話， 但克里斯基本上是說：

"Forgiveness is more powerful than people realize,

「寬恕比人們意識到的更強大，

because it lifts all of this stuff off of you.

因為它卸除你身上的這些東西。

It's freedom -- freedom from revenge,

這就是自由。

免於報復，

freedom from anger,

免於憤怒，

freedom from hatred."

免於被仇恨。」

Sadly, he was called out for saying that.

可悲的是，他因為 這麼說而被指控了。

I believe that it's very possible to use these strategies,

我相信非常有可能使用這些策略，

so I'm going to tell you about my Uncle Frank.

所以我要講講我的叔叔弗蘭克。

He ain’t really my uncle but, you know,

他不是我真正的叔叔，

he's still living so I can't call him out.

但是他還健在，我不能挑戰他。

Anyway.

無論如何，

He came to a family reunion

他來參加家庭聚會，

and decided to talk about Mexican Americans stealing jobs.

並決定談論墨裔美國人 把工作偷走了。

And everybody had been chatting and eating quite happily

每個人都非常開心地聊天和吃飯，

till his racism silenced the room.

直到他的種族主義使房間安靜下來。

Most people buried their faces in their plate,

大多數人因為弗蘭克叔叔的言論，

because this was Uncle Frank.

而埋頭吃著。

This is what he does.

這就是他所做的。

But I decided to respond, but not with anger.

但我決定不以憤怒回應此事。

I kind of organized a few comments and asked him a question.

我整理了一些評論並問了他一個問題。

"Uncle Frank, I know you.

「弗蘭克叔叔，我了解你。

I love you.

我愛你。

I respect you.

我尊敬你。

And what I know about you is that you'd run into a burning building

我對你的了解是，你是一位會跑進

一棟著火的建築物去救人的一個人，

and save somebody if you could.

And you wouldn't care what race that person is,

而且你不會在乎那個人是什麼種族，

you wouldn't care whether they were gay or an immigrant.

你甚至不會在乎 他們是同性戀還是移民。

So, Uncle Frank, that's the man I love and respect.

所以，弗蘭克叔叔， 那是我愛和尊重的人。

So tell me: How can I reconcile that good Uncle Frank that I know you are

那麼，告訴我怎麼能把我認識的你

with the words that just came out of your mouth?"

和剛剛說出那番話的你進行調和呢？」

You haven't called him in. You haven't called him out.

我沒請他來，也沒有指控他。

You called on him to decide how he's going to be.

我籲請他決定自己要怎樣。

And with this approach, he's less likely to become defensive,

使用這種方法， 他比較不會處於戒備的狀態，

because you haven't actually attacked him.

因為我實際上並沒有攻擊他。

And while he's organizing what to say,

當他在組織要說的話時，

you've affirmed that he has options about how he wants to be,

你重申了他有在侄女和家人眼中 呈現什麼模樣的選擇權，

especially in his niece's eyes and his family's eyes.

特別是在他姪女和家人眼中的模樣。

But most importantly, the third thing you've achieved

但最重要的是，我達成的第三件事是

is that you did not let his bigotry go unchallenged,

我並沒有讓他一直偏執下去。

and that was witnessed by the entire family:

這是全家人都見證的。

how you stand up to bigotry at a family reunion

我如何在家庭團聚中以沒有仇恨、爭吵

without hate, argument and throwing over the table.

和在桌上扔東西的方式直面偏執。

Now, anybody can learn these tactics, as I've said,

現在，任何人都可以學習 這些策略，正如我所說的，

and we really need to understand that we can offer people forgiveness

我們必須明白，我們能寬恕人，

and a chance to redeem themselves from their mistakes.

給予他們從錯誤中自我救贖的機會。

Somebody gave us a chance to grow,

有人給了我們成長的機會，

and we can offer that to others.

我們也可以將其提供給其他人。

So I invite you to join me in this calling-in culture,

所以我邀請你加入這個請來文化，

this calling-in world that we're building.

加入我們正在建設的請來世界。

I think you will have a lot of joy and satisfaction in it,

我相信你會從中得到很多快樂 和滿足，就像我一樣。

like I've found.

We don't actually risk anything,

我們實際上並沒有冒任何風險，

because all we risk losing is our pain.

因為我們失去的只是我們的痛苦。

And then you'll learn the most powerful lesson I've learned

然後，你會學到我從五十年 社會正義活動中

from five decades of being a social justice activist:

所學到的最有力的一課：

fighting hate should be fun.

與仇恨作鬥爭是很有趣。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's being a hater that sucks.

變成仇恨者才糟糕。

Thank y'all.

謝謝大家。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌聲與歡呼）