How to Participate in Your Own Legal Defense | Lam Ho | TED

翻译人员: Sue Lu 校对人员: Carol Wang

I'm a lawyer based in Chicago,

我是一名芝加哥的律师，

and two months ago I represented a Vietnamese immigrant woman

两个月前我接下了一桩离婚案，

in her divorce.

代表一名越南的女移民。

As she was testifying about how her husband brutally raped her,

她当时正在出庭作证 如何被丈夫暴力强奸，

the judge repeatedly told her to stop speaking.

法官在庭审时重复打断她 不让她把话说完，

She should only speak when I asked her a question.

并强调她只能 在我向她提问时开口。

Can you imagine having to publicly share one of the most painful,

你能想象当你在公开场合讲述你人生中

traumatic moments in your life

最痛苦、最创伤的一段经历时，

and being told over and over again to basically shut up?

居然被不断要求闭嘴吗？

It felt so wrong, but also so familiar for me.

这太不公平，但我已见过太多了。

My mother,

我母亲，

she had no say in her divorce.

当年离婚时完全没有话语权。

She didn't have a lawyer,

她没有请律师，

so she signed papers giving away everything

自己在文件上签名，放弃所有财物，

because she thought she would otherwise be deported back to Vietnam.

她以为要不然会被遣返回越南。

I thought by becoming a lawyer,

所以我想成为一名律师，

I could help people like my mother.

好帮助像我母亲那样的人们。

But then I realized I was actually part of the problem.

但后来我意识到， 我其实也是问题的一部分。

As lawyers, we take over speaking for our clients.

作为律师，我们是客户的代言人。

And courtroom procedures,

法庭程序、举证规则

rules of evidence means that we have all the power

令我们拥有掌控权，

in what happens in their cases.

可以主宰客户的案情进展和结局。

We take terrible situations from people's lives

我们把客户的不幸遭遇

and we translate it into legal language.

用法律语言表达出来。

But, in doing so,

但在此过程中，

we rewrite our clients as caricatures.

我们把客户改写为夸张的漫画人物，

The most helpless, most victimized versions of themselves.

把他们描绘成刻板的 最无助、受害最深的样子。

This is the American legal system.

这就是美国的司法系统。

And that's why, eight years ago,

所以，八年前，

I founded Beyond Legal Aid

我成立了“超越法律援助”，

in the belief that it doesn't have to be this way,

坚信我们可以改变现有的不合理，

and lawyers can actually change it, working within,

律师们可以带头改变， 从我们自身做起，

making it so that clients can speak for themselves.

帮助客户道出他们的心声。

How does this work?

这具体怎么操作呢？

First, instead of working nine to five in offices downtown,

首先，我们应该摒弃朝九晚五 只呆在市区办公室的做法。

we travel, go to our clients where they live.

走出去，到客户生活的地方去，

And during evenings,

傍晚，夜里，周末，

nights and weekends when they are available.

任何客户有空的时间都行。

And they can be active participants in the legal process.

因为他们完全可以在法律程序中 成为积极的参与者。

Next, let me share a little secret.

下面让我告诉你一个小秘密。

Well, at least for the non-lawyers.

嗯，只有律师知道这个——

Attorneys like to be in charge.

那就是，律师们喜欢掌权。

We go to law school,

我们考上法学院，

we hang up fancy law degrees, and we wear fancy suits --

把耀眼的法律学位高高挂起， 然后穿上神气的西装 ——

obviously much fancier than what I’m wearing --

当然是比我这身神气多了——

because we want to be in control.

因为我们想要高高在上，掌控一切。

But it’s our clients whose lives are being judged

但是被审判的是我们客户的人生，

and impacted by what I do.

我的举动将给他们 带来至关重要的影响。

They need to be full partners in charge of their own cases.

所以他们应成为我们的合伙人， 从而有权掌控自己的案子。

We can give advice,

我们可以提供建议指导，

empower them to navigate the legal system.

增强他们驾驭法律体系的能力和信心。

But ultimately,

但是最终，

we need to follow their lead and defer to their decisions.

我们应该听从他们的诉求, 并尊重他们的决定。

Let me give you an example.

下面我来分享一个案例。

One of our clients, let's call him Atticus,

我们有位客户，就称他为阿迪克斯吧。

he was facing deportation in a case where the law was completely against us.

他当时面临被驱逐出境， 而相关法律完全不利于我们。

Atticus had been in ICE detention for several months

阿迪克斯曾被美国移民和海关 执法局 (ICE) 拘留了几个月，

because the immigration judge denied him bond.

因为那个移民法官拒绝保释他。

So he and OCAD, the Organized Communities Against Deportation,

他和 OCAD（反对 驱逐出境的社区组织）

the community group we were working with on his case,

想要再次申请保释，

wanted to try for bond a second time.

这个组织为了他的案子 正在与我们合作。

I and the other lawyers were like,

我和其他律师一致反对他们的做法，

"No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

“别，千万别......

You can't do that.

你们不能那么做。

The law is bad,

法律条文对我们很不利，

the judge has already said no once,

而且已经被法官拒绝过一次了，

and we don't want to piss him off by questioning his decision."

再去质疑他的判决 恐怕会彻底惹恼他。“

But they wanted to proceed, so we deferred to their decision.

但他们仍然坚持， 我们只好听从他们的决定。

However, instead of my sharing his situation on his behalf,

不过，这次我没有 大包大揽替他陈述一切，

we convinced the judge to hear a live conversation

而是说服法官听一场

between Atticus and his US citizen son,

阿迪克斯和美国籍儿子的对话，

let's call him Jem.

我们就叫他詹姆吧。

Jem spoke about how he wanted to commit suicide

詹姆述说了他如何想要自杀，

because he couldn't live without his father anymore.

因为再也受不了不能跟父亲生活在一起。

Atticus broke down,

阿迪克斯伤心不已，

sobbing in despair

绝望地抽泣着。

because he felt responsible for what was happening with his son

他深感愧疚，对不起儿子，

and yet couldn't be there for him.

因为不能陪在身边帮他渡过难关。

The judge was forced to hear directly

法官不得已当场聆听这一切——

how Atticus and Jem loved each other and how much they needed each other.

阿迪克斯和詹姆的父子情深 以及他们多么需要彼此。

He heard it unadulterated, in full, without any questions,

法官所听到的，真实完整， 没有掺假，没有任何提问，

without any interruptions by any lawyers.

没有任何律师的干扰打断。

Unfortunately, he denied bond a second time.

不幸的是，他再次拒绝了保释。

But --

不过——

and of course there’s a “but,” right,

当然应该有个“不过”，对吧？

otherwise, I wouldn't be telling you this story.

不然我就不会讲这个故事了。

（笑声）

(Laughter)

The judge then cancelled Atticus’s deportation.

那个法官随即取消了 阿迪克斯的遣返令。

I cannot tell you how utterly,

我没法跟你描述

absolutely shocking that legal victory was.

这场法律上的胜利有多么意外、震惊。

(Applause)

（鼓掌）

I was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this happened."

我当时就想，“天啊，这是真的吗？”

And ...

接下来，

I’m going to say something now, which lawyers don’t say very often

我想说……其实我要说的话 做律师的是很少讲的，

but probably should say a lot more often.

但我们应该多讲这几个字。

I was wrong.

那就是……我错了。

My client and his community, they knew better.

我的客户和他的社区组织 更知道怎么做更好。

If we had not followed their lead and tried for bond a second time,

如果我们没有听从他们， 而是按我们的方式来申请保释，

the judge would have never heard Atticus tell his own story

法官就永远不会听到 阿迪克斯亲口讲的故事。

and be so moved by what was going on

他被父子俩的经历深深感动，

that he defied the law

竟然为他们打破法律惯例，

to allow Atticus to stay in the country with his son.

阿迪克斯因此得以留下来， 从此和儿子生活在一起。

Atticus being able to tell his own story,

阿迪克斯能够亲口讲自己的故事，

created a decision that was impossible,

从而赢得了一个奇迹般的法庭判决。

at least what we thought as attorneys.

至少我们律师认为那近乎奇迹。

Atticus sharing and talking his own case

阿迪克斯能够分享其案例，动之以情，

created justice where the law was wrong.

从而在法律条文不公正时， 为自己赢得正义。

And that's why the legal system has to change,

这就是为什么 我们的司法系统需要改变，

so that people like Atticus can share their own stories,

由此，和阿迪克斯遭遇相似的人们 就能够分享他们的故事，

have agency over their own cases.

拥有自己案件的掌控权。

In the meantime, we as lawyers need to make it happen in our work,

同时，我们律师也应在工作中 尽力帮助他们达成这一目标。

in our cases right now.

让我们一起努力，从现在做起。

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

(Applause)

(掌声）