How to Participate in Your Own Legal Defense | Lam Ho | TED

37,152 views ・ 2023-02-09

TED


μ•„λž˜ μ˜λ¬Έμžλ§‰μ„ λ”λΈ”ν΄λ¦­ν•˜μ‹œλ©΄ μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.

λ²ˆμ—­: E.K. Lee κ²€ν† : DK Kim
00:03
I'm a lawyer based in Chicago,
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μ €λŠ” μ‹œμΉ΄κ³ μ—μ„œ ν™œλ™ν•˜λŠ” λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:06
and two months ago I represented a Vietnamese immigrant woman
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2κ°œμ›” μ „, μ €λŠ” λ² νŠΈλ‚¨ 이민 μ—¬μ„±μ˜ 이혼 μ†Œμ†‘μ„ λ§‘μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:09
in her divorce.
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00:11
As she was testifying about how her husband brutally raped her,
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이 여성이 λ‚¨νŽΈμ΄ μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ μž”μΈν•˜κ²Œ κ·Έλ…€λ₯Ό κ°•κ°„ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€ 증언을 ν•˜λŠ” λ™μ•ˆ
00:15
the judge repeatedly told her to stop speaking.
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νŒμ‚¬λŠ” κ³„μ†ν•΄μ„œ κ·Έλ…€μ—κ²Œ 그만 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν•˜λΌκ³  ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:18
She should only speak when I asked her a question.
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μžκΈ°κ°€ μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν•  λ•Œλ§Œ 말을 ν•΄μ•Ό ν•œλ‹€κ³  ν–ˆμ£ .
00:22
Can you imagine having to publicly share one of the most painful,
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μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ€ μƒμƒμ΄λ‚˜ ν•  수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆκΉŒ?
μΈμƒμ—μ„œ κ°€μž₯ μ•„ν”„κ³  μƒμ²˜μΈ μˆœκ°„λ“€μ„ 곡개적으둜 λ°νžˆλŠ”λ°
00:26
traumatic moments in your life
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00:28
and being told over and over again to basically shut up?
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κ³„μ†ν•΄μ„œ 사싀상 λ‹₯치라고 ν•˜λ‹€λ‹ˆμš”.
00:33
It felt so wrong, but also so familiar for me.
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정말 잘λͺ»λ˜μ—ˆλ‹€κ³  λŠκΌˆμ§€λ§Œ, λ‚―μ„  풍경도 μ•„λ‹ˆμ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
00:38
My mother,
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μ €μ˜ μ–΄λ¨Έλ‹ˆλŠ” μ΄ν˜Όν•  λ•Œ ν•œλ§ˆλ””λ„ λͺ»ν•˜μ…¨μ–΄μš”.
00:40
she had no say in her divorce.
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00:42
She didn't have a lawyer,
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μ–΄λ¨Έλ‹ˆλŠ” λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬κ°€ μ—†μ–΄μ„œ
00:43
so she signed papers giving away everything
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λͺ¨λ“  것을 ν¬κΈ°ν•œλ‹€λŠ” λ¬Έμ„œμ— μ„œλͺ…을 ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
00:47
because she thought she would otherwise be deported back to Vietnam.
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κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠμœΌλ©΄ λ² νŠΈλ‚¨μœΌλ‘œ μΆ”λ°© λ‹Ήν•œλ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν–ˆκ±°λ“ μš”.
00:52
I thought by becoming a lawyer,
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μ €λŠ” λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬κ°€ 되면,
00:54
I could help people like my mother.
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μ–΄λ¨Έλ‹ˆμ™€ 같은 μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ λ„μšΈ 수 μžˆμ„ 거라 μƒκ°ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
00:56
But then I realized I was actually part of the problem.
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‹€κ°€ 싀은 μ œκ°€ 문제의 μΌλΆ€μž„μ„ κΉ¨λ‹¬μ•˜μ§€μš”.
01:00
As lawyers, we take over speaking for our clients.
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λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ‘œμ„œ μ €ν¬λŠ” μ˜λ’°μΈμ„ λŒ€λ³€ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:05
And courtroom procedures,
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그리고 λ²•μ •μ˜ 절차, 증거 κ·œμΉ™μ€
01:07
rules of evidence means that we have all the power
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 의뒰인의 사건에 λͺ¨λ“  κΆŒν•œμ΄ μžˆμŒμ„ λœ»ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:10
in what happens in their cases.
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01:12
We take terrible situations from people's lives
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ˜ μ‹¬κ°ν•œ 상황듀을
01:15
and we translate it into legal language.
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법λ₯  μš©μ–΄λ‘œ λ²ˆμ—­ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:20
But, in doing so,
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그런데 κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ ν•˜λŠ” κ³Όμ •μ—μ„œ
01:22
we rewrite our clients as caricatures.
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μ˜λ’°μΈλ“€μ„ μΆ•μ†Œν•˜κ³  κ³Όμž₯ν•΄μ„œ λ‹€μ‹œ λ¬˜μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:25
The most helpless, most victimized versions of themselves.
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κ°€μž₯ 무λ ₯ν•˜κ³  κ°€μž₯ μ–΅μšΈν•œ λͺ¨μŠ΅μœΌλ‘œ 말이죠.
01:31
This is the American legal system.
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이것이 미ꡭ의 법λ₯  μ²΄κ³„μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:33
And that's why, eight years ago,
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이것이 μ œκ°€ 8λ…„ 전에 λΉ„μš˜λ“œ 법λ₯  지원을 μ„€λ¦½ν•œ μ΄μœ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:35
I founded Beyond Legal Aid
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01:37
in the belief that it doesn't have to be this way,
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법λ₯  체계가 이런 식이 될 ν•„μš”κ°€ μ—†λ‹€κ³  λ―Ώμ—ˆμ£ .
01:40
and lawyers can actually change it, working within,
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κ·Έ μ•ˆμ—μ„œ λ…Έλ ₯ν•΄μ„œ λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ΄ κ·Έκ±Έ λ°”κΏ€ 수 μžˆλ‹€κ³  λ―Ώμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:43
making it so that clients can speak for themselves.
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μ˜λ’°μΈλ“€μ΄ 슀슀둜 이야기할 수 있게 λ§Œλ“€μ–΄μ„œμš”.
01:48
How does this work?
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μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ ν•˜λƒκ³ μš”?
01:50
First, instead of working nine to five in offices downtown,
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λ¨Όμ €, 9μ‹œλΆ€ν„° 5μ‹œκΉŒμ§€ μ‹œλ‚΄ μ‚¬λ¬΄μ‹€μ—μ„œ μΌν•˜λŠ” λŒ€μ‹ μ—
01:55
we travel, go to our clients where they live.
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μ˜λ’°μΈλ“€μ΄ μ‚¬λŠ” 곳으둜 그듀을 μ°Ύμ•„κ°‘λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:58
And during evenings,
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저녁이든 밀이든 주말이든 의뒰인이 κ°€λŠ₯ν•  λ•Œ κ°‘λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:00
nights and weekends when they are available.
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02:03
And they can be active participants in the legal process.
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μ˜λ’°μΈμ€ 법λ₯  μ ˆμ°¨μ— 적극적으둜 μ°Έμ—¬ν•  수 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:08
Next, let me share a little secret.
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λ‹€μŒμœΌλ‘œ μž‘μ€ 비밀을 ν•˜λ‚˜ κ³΅μœ ν• κ²Œμš”.
02:11
Well, at least for the non-lawyers.
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적어도 λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬κ°€ μ•„λ‹Œ λΆ„λ“€μ—κ²ŒλŠ” 비밀이죠.
02:14
Attorneys like to be in charge.
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λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ€ μ£Όλ„ν•˜λŠ” 것을 μ’‹μ•„ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:17
We go to law school,
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법과 λŒ€ν•™μ„ κ°€κ³ ,
02:19
we hang up fancy law degrees, and we wear fancy suits --
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νœ˜ν™©μ°¬λž€ν•œ 법학 ν•™μœ„λ₯Ό κ³Όμ‹œν•˜κ³  κ³ κΈ‰ 양볡을 μž…μ–΄μš”.
02:23
obviously much fancier than what I’m wearing --
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μ§€κΈˆ μ œκ°€ μž…κ³  μžˆλŠ” 것보단 ν™•μ‹€νžˆ 더 κ³ κΈ‰μŠ€λŸ¬μš΄ κ²ƒμ„μš”.
02:25
because we want to be in control.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” ν†΅μ œκΆŒμ„ μ₯κ³  μ‹Άμ–΄ν•˜κ±°λ“ μš”.
02:28
But it’s our clients whose lives are being judged
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ μž¬νŒμ„ λ°›κ³  λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬μ˜ ν–‰λ™μœΌλ‘œ 영ν–₯을 λ°›λŠ” 것은
02:33
and impacted by what I do.
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λ°”λ‘œ 의뒰인의 μ‚Άμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:36
They need to be full partners in charge of their own cases.
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μ˜λ’°μΈλ“€μ€ μžμ‹ μ˜ 사건을 μ˜¨μ „νžˆ 주도할 λ™λ°˜μžμ—¬μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:41
We can give advice,
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 쑰언을 ν•˜κ³ ,
02:42
empower them to navigate the legal system.
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그듀이 법λ₯  체계λ₯Ό 헀쳐 λ‚˜κ°ˆ 수 있게 ν•΄ μ€λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:45
But ultimately,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ ꢁ극적으둜,
02:47
we need to follow their lead and defer to their decisions.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 주도와 μ˜κ²¬μ„ λ”°λ₯Ό ν•„μš”κ°€ μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:53
Let me give you an example.
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예λ₯Ό ν•˜λ‚˜ λ“€μ–΄ 보죠.
02:55
One of our clients, let's call him Atticus,
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€λΌλŠ” 의뒰인이 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:59
he was facing deportation in a case where the law was completely against us.
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κ·ΈλŠ” μΆ”λ°© μœ„κΈ°μ— μ²˜ν•΄ μžˆμ—ˆκ³  법은 일방적으둜 μ €ν¬μ—κ²Œ λΆˆλ¦¬ν–ˆμ£ .
03:06
Atticus had been in ICE detention for several months
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€λŠ” ICE에 μ—¬λŸ¬ 달을 κ΅¬κΈˆλ˜μ–΄ μžˆμ—ˆμ–΄μš”.
03:11
because the immigration judge denied him bond.
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이민법 νŒμ‚¬κ°€ 보석을 κ±°λΆ€ν–ˆκ±°λ“ μš”.
03:14
So he and OCAD, the Organized Communities Against Deportation,
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ 이 의뒰인, 그리고 그와 함꼐 이 사건을 λ§‘μ•„ μΌν•˜λ˜
03:19
the community group we were working with on his case,
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μΆ”λ°© λ°˜λŒ€ λͺ¨μž„인 OCADλŠ”
03:22
wanted to try for bond a second time.
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보석에 λ‹€μ‹œ 도전해 보렀 ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:25
I and the other lawyers were like,
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저와 λ‹€λ₯Έ λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ€ μ΄λ ‡κ²Œ λ§ν–ˆμ£ .
03:28
"No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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β€œμ•ˆ λΌμš”, μ•ˆ λΌμš”, μ•ˆ λΌμš”, 그러면 μ•ˆ λΌμš”.
03:30
You can't do that.
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03:31
The law is bad,
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법은 뢀정적이고, νŒμ‚¬κ°€ 이미 μ•ˆ λœλ‹€κ³  ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
03:32
the judge has already said no once,
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03:34
and we don't want to piss him off by questioning his decision."
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νŒμ‚¬μ˜ 결정을 λ”°μ Έμ„œ κ·Έλ₯Ό ν™”λ‚˜κ²Œ ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠλŠ” 게 쒋을 κ±°μ˜ˆμš”.”
03:40
But they wanted to proceed, so we deferred to their decision.
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 그듀은 μ§„ν–‰ν•˜κ³  μ‹Άμ–΄ν–ˆκ³  μš°λ¦¬λŠ” κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 결정에 λ”°λžμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:44
However, instead of my sharing his situation on his behalf,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ μ œκ°€ κ·Έλ₯Ό λŒ€λ³€ν•˜λŠ” λŒ€μ‹ μ—
03:50
we convinced the judge to hear a live conversation
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” νŒμ‚¬μ—κ²Œ μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€μ™€ λ―Έκ΅­ μ‹œλ―ΌμΈ 그의 μ•„λ“€κ°„μ˜ λŒ€ν™”λ₯Ό
03:54
between Atticus and his US citizen son,
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직접 듀어보라고 ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:58
let's call him Jem.
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아듀을 젬이라고 ν•˜μ£ .
04:01
Jem spoke about how he wanted to commit suicide
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젬은 μžμ‹ μ΄ μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ μžμ‚΄μ„ ν•˜λ € ν–ˆλŠ”μ§€ μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
04:06
because he couldn't live without his father anymore.
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아버지가 μ—†λ‹€λ©΄ 더 이상 μ‚΄ 수 μ—†μ—ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ£ .
04:10
Atticus broke down,
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€λŠ” μšΈμŒμ„ ν„°λœ¨λ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:12
sobbing in despair
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μ ˆλ§μ— λΉ μ Έμ„œ μšΈμ—ˆμ£ .
04:15
because he felt responsible for what was happening with his son
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μ•„λ“€μ—κ²Œ λ‹₯친 상황이 μžμ‹ μ˜ μ±…μž„μ΄λΌκ³  λŠκΌˆλŠ”λ°
04:19
and yet couldn't be there for him.
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아듀을 μœ„ν•΄ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” 게 μ—†μ—ˆκ±°λ“ μš”.
04:23
The judge was forced to hear directly
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νŒμ‚¬λŠ” μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€μ™€ 젬이 μ„œλ‘œλ₯Ό μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ μ‚¬λž‘ν•˜κ³ 
04:28
how Atticus and Jem loved each other and how much they needed each other.
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μ„œλ‘œλ₯Ό μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ ν•„μš”λ‘œ ν•˜λŠ”μ§€ 직접 듀을 수 밖에 μ—†μ—ˆμ£ .
04:35
He heard it unadulterated, in full, without any questions,
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νŒμ‚¬λŠ” κ±°λ₯΄μ§€ μ•Šμ€ 전체 λŒ€ν™”λ₯Ό λ“€μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ˜ μ§ˆλ¬Έμ΄λ‚˜ λ°©ν•΄λŠ” μ „ν˜€ μ—†μ—ˆμ£ .
04:40
without any interruptions by any lawyers.
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04:44
Unfortunately, he denied bond a second time.
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λΆˆν–‰νžˆλ„, κ·ΈλŠ” μ΄λ²ˆμ—λ„ 보석을 κ±°λΆ€ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:50
But --
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜,
04:51
and of course there’s a β€œbut,” right,
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λ‹Ήμ—°νžˆ β€˜κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜β€™κ°€ μ—†μ—ˆμœΌλ©΄ 이 이야기λ₯Ό 꺼내지도 μ•Šμ•˜κ² μ§€μš”.
04:53
otherwise, I wouldn't be telling you this story.
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(μ›ƒμŒ)
04:56
(Laughter)
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04:57
The judge then cancelled Atticus’s deportation.
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νŒμ‚¬λŠ” μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€μ˜ 좔방을 μ·¨μ†Œν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:02
I cannot tell you how utterly,
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이것이 μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ λŒ€λ‹¨ν•˜κ³ 
05:06
absolutely shocking that legal victory was.
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μ•„μ£Ό 좩격적인 μŠΉλ¦¬μ˜€λŠ”μ§€ λͺ¨λ¦…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:10
(Applause)
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(ν™˜ν˜Έ)(λ°•μˆ˜)
05:14
I was like, "Oh my God, I can't believe this happened."
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μ €λŠ” λ§ν–ˆμ£ .
β€œμ„Έμƒμ—, λ―ΏκΈ°μ§€κ°€ μ•Šμ•„!”
05:19
And ...
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그리고...
05:20
I’m going to say something now, which lawyers don’t say very often
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μ €λŠ” 이제 λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ΄ 거의 ν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠλŠ” 말을 ν•  κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:26
but probably should say a lot more often.
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사싀 훨씬 더 자주 ν•΄μ•Ό ν•  말이죠.
05:29
I was wrong.
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μ œκ°€ ν‹€λ ΈμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:31
My client and his community, they knew better.
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의뒰인과 그의 곡동체가 더 잘 μ•Œκ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:35
If we had not followed their lead and tried for bond a second time,
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λ§Œμ•½ κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 주도λ₯Ό λ”°λ₯΄μ§€ μ•Šκ³  두 번째 보석을 μ‹ μ²­ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜λ‹€λ©΄
05:39
the judge would have never heard Atticus tell his own story
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νŒμ‚¬λŠ” μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€μ˜ 이야기λ₯Ό μ „ν˜€ 듀을 수 μ—†μ—ˆμ„ ν…Œκ³ 
05:43
and be so moved by what was going on
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그의 이야기에 마음이 μ›€μ§μ—¬μ„œ
05:48
that he defied the law
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법을 κ±°μ—­ν•˜λ©΄μ„œ
05:51
to allow Atticus to stay in the country with his son.
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€λ₯Ό μ•„λ“€κ³Ό ν•¨κ»˜ 이 λ‚˜λΌμ— 머물도둝 ν—ˆλ½ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜κ² μ£ .
05:56
Atticus being able to tell his own story,
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€κ°€ μžμ‹ μ˜ 이야기λ₯Ό ν•˜λŠ” 것이
06:01
created a decision that was impossible,
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적어도 λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬μΈ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λ³Ό λ•ŒλŠ” λΆˆκ°€λŠ₯ν•œ κ²°κ³Όλ₯Ό κ°€μ Έμ™”μ–΄μš”.
06:03
at least what we thought as attorneys.
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06:06
Atticus sharing and talking his own case
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μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€κ°€ μžμ‹ μ˜ 사연을 λ§ν•œ 것이
06:11
created justice where the law was wrong.
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법이 μ‹€νŒ¨ν•œ μ •μ˜λ₯Ό κ°€μ Έμ™”μ–΄μš”.
06:14
And that's why the legal system has to change,
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이것이 법λ₯  체계가 λ°”λ€Œμ–΄μ•Ό ν•˜λŠ” μ΄μœ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:18
so that people like Atticus can share their own stories,
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ μ•„ν‹°μ»€μŠ€ 같은 μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄ μžμ‹ μ˜ 이야기λ₯Ό κ³΅μœ ν•˜κ³ 
06:21
have agency over their own cases.
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μžμ‹ μ˜ 경우λ₯Ό 주도할 수 있게 ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:25
In the meantime, we as lawyers need to make it happen in our work,
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ν•œνŽΈ 우리 λ³€ν˜Έμ‚¬λ“€μ€
우리의 일, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 맑은 μ‚¬κ±΄μ—μ„œ λ‹Ήμž₯ μ‹€ν˜„λ˜λ„λ‘ ν•΄μ•Ό ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:29
in our cases right now.
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06:33
Thank you.
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κ°μ‚¬ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:34
(Applause)
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(ν™˜ν˜Έ)(λ°•μˆ˜)
이 μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈ 정보

이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλŠ” μ˜μ–΄ ν•™μŠ΅μ— μœ μš©ν•œ YouTube λ™μ˜μƒμ„ μ†Œκ°œν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ „ 세계 졜고의 μ„ μƒλ‹˜λ“€μ΄ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μˆ˜μ—…μ„ 보게 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 각 λ™μ˜μƒ νŽ˜μ΄μ§€μ— ν‘œμ‹œλ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μžλ§‰μ„ 더블 ν΄λ¦­ν•˜λ©΄ κ·Έκ³³μ—μ„œ λ™μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λΉ„λ””μ˜€ μž¬μƒμ— 맞좰 μžλ§‰μ΄ μŠ€ν¬λ‘€λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ‚˜ μš”μ²­μ΄ μžˆλŠ” 경우 이 문의 양식을 μ‚¬μš©ν•˜μ—¬ λ¬Έμ˜ν•˜μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.

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