Luis H. Zayas: The psychological impact of child separation at the US-Mexico border | TED

翻译人员: Nan Yang 校对人员: Jiasi Hao

For over 40 years, I've been a clinical social worker

四十多年来，我一直是 一名临床社会工作者

and a developmental psychologist.

和一名发展心理学家。

And it seemed almost natural for me to go into the helping professions.

对我来说， 进入援助行业似乎很自然。

My parents had taught me to do good for others.

我的父母教育我要帮助他人。

And so I devoted my career

所以我致力于

to working with families in some of the toughest circumstances:

帮助那些极度困难的家庭：

poverty, mental illness,

贫穷、精神疾病、

immigration, refugees.

移民、难民。

And for all those years, I've worked with hope and with optimism.

这些年来，我一直 满怀希望和乐观地工作。

In the past five years, though,

不过，在过去五年中，

my hope and my optimism have been put to the test.

我的希望和乐观产生了动摇。

I've been so deeply disappointed in the way the United States government

我对美国政府对待 来我国南部边境的家庭的方式，

is treating families who are coming to our southern border,

感到非常失望。

asking for asylum --

他们只是来寻求庇护——

desperate parents with children, from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras,

都是些绝望的父母，

带着孩子，

来自萨尔瓦多，危地马拉和洪都拉斯，

who only want to bring their kids to safety and security.

只为带孩子远离危险。

They are fleeing some of the worst violence in the world.

只为逃离世界上最严重的暴力，

They've been attacked by gangs,

他们被帮派攻击，

assaulted, raped, extorted, threatened.

受到殴打、强奸、勒索、威胁。

They have faced death.

他们直面死亡，

And they can't turn to their police because the police are complicit,

却不能求助于警察，

因为当地警察 跟帮派蛇鼠一窝，腐败无能。

corrupt, ineffective.

Then they get to our border,

于是他们逃到我们的边境，

and we put them in detention centers,

而我们，把他们关进拘留中心

prisons, as if they were common criminals.

关进监狱， 把他们当罪犯一样对待。

Back in 2014, I met some of the first children in detention centers.

2014年，我在拘留中心 见了最早一批来的孩子。

And I wept.

我哭了。

I sat in my car afterwards and I cried.

我是坐在车里哭的。

I was seeing some of the worst suffering I'd ever known,

我见到了最深重的苦难，

and it went against everything I believed in my country,

它让我重新审视之前对于美国的信任，

the rule of law

比如法律规范，

and everything my parents taught me.

还有我父母教给我的一切。

The way the United States has handled the immigrants

过去五年，对于来美国

寻求庇护的移民，

seeking asylum in our country

over the past five years --

美国的处理方式

it's wrong, just simply wrong.

是错的，完全错误。

Tonight, I want to tell you that children in immigration detention

今晚，我想告诉大家，

在移民拘留中心的孩子们 正在遭受创伤。

are being traumatized.

And we are causing the trauma.

而这都是我们造成的。

We in America --

美国人民——

actually, those of us here tonight --

实际上，哪怕是今晚在座的各位，

will not necessarily be on the same page with respect to immigration.

对移民问题的看法都不一定一致。

We'll disagree on how we're going to handle all those people

如何处理所有想来美国的人们，

who want to come to our country.

我们意见不一。

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me whether you're a Republican or a Democrat,

坦白地说，你是共和党还是民主党， 自由派或保守派，

liberal or conservative.

对我来说都不重要。

I want secure borders.

我想要安全的边境。

I also want to keep the bad actors out.

我也想把坏人挡在外面。

I want national security.

我想要国家安全。

And of course, you'll have your ideas about those topics, too.

你们对上述问题， 当然也会有自己的看法。

But I think we can agree

但我认为，有一点我们可以达成一致，

that America should not be doing harm.

美国不应当伤害别人。

The government, the state, should not be in the business of hurting children.

政府、国家，都不应该参与 伤害儿童的事情，

It should be protecting them,

而应该保护他们，

no matter whose children they are:

无论他们是谁的孩子：

your children, my grandchildren

你的孩子，我的孙子

and the children of families just looking for asylum.

或者那些在寻求庇护的家庭的孩子。

Now, I could tell you story after story

现在，我可以和你们讲 一个又一个故事，

of children who have witnessed some of the worst violence in the world

关于那些目睹过世界上最暴力场面，

and are now sitting in detention.

现在正被拘留的孩子们。

But two little boys have stayed with me over these past five years.

在过去5年里，有两个小男孩 给我留下很深的印象。

One of them was Danny.

其中一个是丹尼。

Danny was seven and a half years old when I met him in a detention center

2014 年，我在德克萨斯州 卡恩斯城的拘留中心见到他，

in Karnes City, Texas, back in 2014.

当时他7岁半。

He was there with his mother and his brother,

他跟妈妈和弟弟一起，

and they had fled Honduras.

是从洪都拉斯逃过来的。

You know, Danny is one of these kids that you get to love instantly.

丹尼是那种 看一眼马上会爱上的孩子。

He's funny, he's innocent,

他很有趣，也很单纯，

he's charming and very expressive.

非常可爱，也很活泼。

And he's drawing pictures for me,

他给我画画，

and one of the pictures he drew for me was of the Revos Locos.

他给我画的其中一幅 是有关 Revos Locos 的。

The Revos Locos: this is the name

Revos Locos， 是他们镇子里帮派的名字。

that they gave to gangs in the town that he was in.

I said to Danny,

我对丹尼说，

"Danny, what makes them bad guys?"

“丹尼，为什么他们是坏人呢？”

Danny looked at me with puzzlement.

丹尼困惑地看着我。

I mean, the look was more like,

那种眼神更像是在问，

"Are you clueless or just stupid?"

“你是无知呢还是蠢？”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

He leaned in and he whispered,

他靠过来然后小声说，

"Don't you see?

“你没看到吗?

They smoke cigarettes."

他们抽烟。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"And they drink beer."

“他们还喝啤酒。”

Danny had learned, of course, about the evils of drinking and smoking.

显而易见，丹尼已经知道了 抽烟和喝酒是不好的。

Then he said, "And they carry guns."

然后他说：“而且他们还带着枪。”

In one of the pictures,

在其中一幅画中，

the stick figures of the Revos Locos are shooting at birds and at people.

代表 Revos Locos 的简笔画人物 正在对着鸟和人开枪。

Danny told me about the day his uncle was killed by those Revos Locos

丹尼告诉我

他的叔叔被 Revos Locos 杀害的那一天，

and how he ran from his house to his uncle's farmhouse,

他是如何从自己家， 跑到了叔叔的农舍，

only to see his uncle's dead body,

却只看见了他的尸体，

his face disfigured by bullets.

脸已经被子弹毁掉了。

And Danny told me he saw his uncle's teeth coming out the back of his head.

丹尼还告诉我， 他看见叔叔的牙从脑后露出来。

He was only six at the time.

那时候他只有六岁，

Sometime after that,

之后的某天，

one of those Revos Locos beat little Danny badly, severely,

Revos Locos 中的一员 把小丹尼狠狠打了一顿，

and that's when his parents said,

也就是那个时候， 他的父母说：

"We have got to leave or they will kill us."

“我们必须要离开， 不然他们会杀了我们。”

So they set out.

所以他们出发了。

But Danny's father was a single-leg amputee with a crutch,

但是丹尼的爸爸 拄着拐杖，只有一条腿。

and he couldn't manage the rugged terrain.

他无法走过那些崎岖的山路。

So he said to his wife,

所以他对妻子说，

"Go without me. Take our boys.

“不要管我了。带孩子走。

Save our boys."

救救我们的孩子。”

So Mom and the boys set off.

所以妈妈和孩子们走了。

Danny told me he looked back, said goodbye to his father,

丹尼告诉我， 他回头跟爸爸说再见，

looked back a couple of times until he lost sight of his father.

他回头了好几次， 直到再也看不见爸爸。

In detention, he had not heard from his father.

在拘留所，他从来没有听过爸爸的消息。

And it's very likely that his father was killed by the Revos Locos,

很有可能他爸爸已经 被 Revos Locos 的人杀害了，

because he had tried to flee.

因为他曾试图逃跑。

I can't forget Danny.

我不能忘记丹尼。

The other boy was Fernando.

另一个孩子是费尔南多。

Now, Fernando was in the same detention center,

他也在同一个拘留中心，

roughly the same age as Danny.

差不多和丹尼同岁。

Fernando was telling me about the 24 hours he spent in isolation with his mother

费尔南多给我讲了他在拘留中心

与妈妈隔离的那 24 个小时，

in the detention center,

placed there because his mother had led a hunger strike

因为他妈妈，发动拘留中心的其他妈妈们

among the mothers in the detention center,

一起绝食抗议，

and now she was cracking under the pressure of the guards,

她在守卫的压迫下屈服了，

who were threatening and being very abusive towards her and Fernando.

他们威胁并且辱骂她和费尔南多。

As Fernando and I are talking in the small office,

当我和费尔南多 在一间小办公室里谈话时，

his mother burst in,

他妈妈冲了进来，

and she says, "They hear you! They're listening to you."

她说：“他们能听到！ 他们在监听你！”

And she dropped to her hands and knees,

然后她跪下了，

and she began to look under the table, groping under all the chairs.

她开始看桌子底下， 摸索所有椅子的下方。

She looked at the electric sockets,

她看向那些电源插座，

at the corner of the room,

看向房间角落，

the floor, the corner of the ceiling,

地板、天花板角落、

at the lamp, at the air vent, looking for hidden microphones and cameras.

灯、通风口处， 寻找着隐藏的麦克风和摄像机。

I watched Fernando as he watched his mother spiral

费尔南多看着他的母亲

into this paranoid state.

陷入这种偏执状态。

I looked in his eyes and I saw utter terror.

我从他眼里看见了极大的恐惧。

After all, who would take care of him if she couldn't?

毕竟，除了妈妈， 还有谁能照顾他呢？

It was just the two of them. They only had each other.

只剩他俩相依为命了。

I could tell you story after story,

我还有很多故事可以讲，

but I haven't forgotten Fernando.

但我还没有忘记费尔南多。

And I know something about what that kind of trauma,

我知道这些创伤、压力和逆境

stress and adversity does to children.

会对儿童产生什么样的影响，

So I'm going to get clinical with you for a moment,

所以我先暂时当一下临床医生，

and I'm going to be the professor that I am.

之后再变回教授的身份。

Under prolonged and intense stress,

长期处于压力，

trauma, hardship, adversity, harsh conditions,

创伤、困苦、逆境等艰难的条件下，

the developing brain is harmed,

发育中的大脑会受到伤害，

plain and simple.

就这么简单。

Its wiring and its architecture

大脑结构和内部连结

are damaged.

受到了损害。

The child's natural stress response system is affected.

孩子们天生的 应激反应系统受到了影响。

It's weakened of its protective factors.

它的保护功能减弱了。

Regions of the brain that are associated with cognition,

大脑中与认知、智力、

判断力、信任、

intellectual abilities,

judgment, trust, self-regulation, social interaction,

自我调节和社交互动相关的区域

are weakened, sometimes permanently.

被削弱，有时候这种影响是永久的。

That impairs children's future.

这损害了孩子们的未来。

We also know that under stress, the child's immune system is suppressed,

我们也知道在压力下， 孩子的免疫系统也被压制，

making them susceptible to infections.

使他们容易被感染。

Chronic illnesses, like diabetes, asthma, cardiovascular disease,

慢性疾病，

例如糖尿病、哮喘、心血管疾病，

will follow those children into adulthood and likely shorten their lives.

将伴随着那些孩子成年， 有可能会缩短他们的生命。

Mental health problems are linked to the breakdown of the body.

心理健康问题与身体的衰弱有关。

I have seen children in detention

我曾见过被拘留中的孩子们

who have recurrent and disturbing nightmares,

反反复复做那些令人不安的噩梦，

night terrors,

害怕黑夜，

depression and anxiety,

抑郁和焦虑，

dissociative reactions,

解离性反应，

hopelessness, suicidal thinking

绝望，自杀的念头

and post-traumatic stress disorders.

和创伤后应激障碍。

And they regress in their behavior,

而且他们会出现行为退化，

like the 11-year-old boy

像 11 岁的男孩

who began to wet his bed again after years of continence.

又开始尿床。

And the eight-year-old girl who was buckling under the pressure

一个 8 岁的女孩，在压力下

开始坚持让她妈妈用母乳喂养她。

and was insisting that her mother breastfeed her.

That is what detention does to children.

这些都是拘留造成的后果。

Now, you may ask:

现在，你们可能要问：

What do we do?

我们要做什么?

What should our government do?

我们的政府应该做什么？

Well, I'm just a mental health professional,

好吧，我只是一个心理健康专家，

so all I really know is about children's health and development.

我的专长是孩子的健康和发展问题。

But I have some ideas.

但我也有一些想法。

First, we need to reframe our practices.

首先，我们要重新设计我们的做法。

We need to replace fear and hostility

我们需要用安全和怜悯之心

with safety and compassion.

替代恐惧和敌意。

We need to tear down the prison walls,

我们需要拆掉监狱的墙，

the barbed wire, take away the cages.

拿走铁丝网，拿走牢笼。

Instead of prison, or prisons,

我们不需要监狱，

we should create orderly asylum processing centers,

而是应该创建有秩序的 庇护处置中心，

campus-like communities

像校园一样的社区，

where children and families can live together.

孩子们和家人可以住在一起。

We could take old motels, old army barracks,

我们可以改造 旧的汽车旅馆和军营，

refit them so that children and parents can live as family units

让孩子和父母可以以家庭为单位，

in some safety and normality,

安全而正常地生活在一起，

where kids can run around.

孩子可以在附近玩耍。

In these processing centers,

这些处置中心配有

pediatricians, family doctors,

儿科医生，家庭医生，

dentists and nurses,

牙医和护士，

would be screening, examining,

会对孩子们进行筛查，体检，

treating and immunizing children,

治疗和接种疫苗，

creating records that will follow them to their next medical provider.

创建医疗记录备未来使用。

Social workers would be conducting mental health evaluations

社工会对他们进行 心理健康评估，

and providing treatment for those who need it.

并对有需要的孩子提供治疗。

Those social workers would be connecting families

这些社工会帮助家庭

to services that they're going to need, wherever they're headed.

联络他们所需要的服务， 无论他们去到哪里。

And teachers would be teaching and testing children

老师们会教育并测试孩子，

and documenting their learning

将学习情况记录存档，

so that the teachers at the next school

以便将来的老师

可以继续对他们的教育。

can continue those children's education.

There's a lot more that we could do in these processing centers.

在这些处置中心，还有很多 我们可以做的事情。

A lot more.

有很多。

And you probably are thinking,

你们可能会觉得

this is pie-in-the-sky stuff.

这些设想太天马行空。

Can't blame you.

这不怪你们。

Well, let me tell you that refugee camps all over the world are holding families

好吧，让我告诉你们， 世界各地的难民营

和我们的拘留中心一样， 在收留这些家庭，

like those in our detention centers,

and some of those refugee camps are getting it right

而其中一些难民营 正在尝试做正确的事，

far better than we are.

远比我们做的要好。

The United Nations has issued reports describing refugee camps

联合国曾发表报告，

介绍了那些保护 孩子健康和发展的难民营。

that protect children's health and development.

Children and parents live in family units

孩子和父母以家庭为单位居住，

and clusters of families are housed together.

几个家庭被安置在一起居住。

Parents are given work permits so they can earn some money,

向父母颁发工作许可， 所以他们可以工作赚钱，

they're given food vouchers so they can go to the local stores and shop.

发放食物券，他们可以 去当地的商店购物。

Mothers are brought together to cook healthy meals for the children,

母亲们聚在一起为孩子们 做健康的饭菜，

and children go to school every day and are taught.

孩子们每天去学校上课。

Afterwards, after school, they go home and they ride bikes,

放学后，他们骑车回家，

hang out with friends, do homework and explore the world --

和朋友们一起出去玩， 做作业，探索这个世界——

all the essentials for child development.

而这些，都是儿童发展所必需的东西。

We can get it right. We have the resources to get it right.

我们能够做正确的事， 我们有资源来做正确的事。

What we need is the will and the insistence of Americans

我们需要的是 美国人的意志和坚持，

that we treat children humanely.

我们以人道的方式对待孩子。

You know, I can't forget Danny or Fernando.

我无法忘记丹尼和费尔南多。

I wonder where they are today,

我好奇他们如今在哪，

and I pray that they are healthy and happy.

我为他们的健康和快乐祈祷。

They are only two of the many children I met

他们只是我见过的众多孩子中的两个，

and of the thousands we know about who have been in detention.

只是在拘留中心里上千个孩子中的两个。

I may be saddened

我可能会伤心，

by what's happened to the children,

因为发生在孩子们身上的事情，

but I'm inspired by them.

但我也因为他们受到了启发。

I may cry, as I did,

我可能会哭，像我之前那样，

but I admire those children's strength.

但我赞赏那些孩子的坚强。

They keep alive my hope and my optimism in the work I do.

他们让我对自己的工作充满希望和乐观。

So while we may differ on our approach to immigration,

所以，即便我们在对待移民问题上有分歧，

we should be treating children with dignity and respect.

我们也应该 带着尊严和尊重对待儿童。

We should do right by them.

我们要做正确的事情。

If we do,

如果我们这样做，

we can prepare those children who remain in the United States,

我们可以培养这些留在美国的孩子，

prepare them to become productive, engaged members of our society.

让他们成为我们社会中 有生产力，积极参与的成员。

And those who will return to their countries whether voluntarily or not

而那些将返回祖国的孩子， 无论自愿与否，

will be prepared to become the teachers, the merchants, the leaders

也将准备好在自己的国家， 成为老师、商人

in their country.

或领导人。

And I hope together all of those children and parents

而且我希望所有这些孩子和父母

could give testimony to the world about the goodness of our country

都能向全世界证明 我们国家的善意

and our values.

和我们的价值观。

But we have to get it right.

但我们必须做正确的事。

So we can agree to disagree on immigration,

所以我们可以 在移民问题上有不同见解，

but I hope we can agree on one thing:

但我希望我们可以 都同意一件事情：

that none of us wants to look back at this moment in our history,

我们谁都不想回顾历史这一刻：

when we knew we were inflicting lifelong trauma on children,

我们知道自己在给孩子们 造成终身伤害，

and that we sat back and did nothing.

而我们却袖手旁观，什么也没做。

That would be the greatest tragedy of all.

那将是我们所有人最大的悲剧。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）