Michel Laberge: How synchronized hammer strikes could generate nuclear fusion

388,946 views ・ 2014-04-22

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:13
Wow, this is bright.
0
13090
2031
00:15
It must use a lot of power.
1
15121
2991
00:18
Well, flying you all in here
2
18112
1492
00:19
must have cost a bit of energy too.
3
19604
2448
00:22
So the whole planet needs a lot of energy,
4
22052
2918
00:24
and so far we've been running mostly on fossil fuel.
5
24970
2901
00:27
We've been burning gas.
6
27871
2049
00:29
It's been a good run.
7
29920
1387
00:31
It got us to where we are, but we have to stop.
8
31307
2868
00:34
We can't do that anymore.
9
34175
2154
00:36
So we are trying different types of energy now,
10
36329
2281
00:38
alternative energy,
11
38610
1214
00:39
but it proved quite difficult to find something
12
39824
2498
00:42
that's as convenient and as cost-effective
13
42322
2801
00:45
as oil, gas and coal.
14
45123
2817
00:47
My personal favorite is nuclear energy.
15
47940
4090
00:52
Now, it's very energy-dense,
16
52030
2601
00:54
it produces solid, reliable power,
17
54631
2481
00:57
and it doesn't make any CO2.
18
57112
2383
00:59
Now we know of two ways
19
59495
1492
01:00
of making nuclear energy: fission and fusion.
20
60987
5174
01:06
Now in fission, you take a big nucleus,
21
66161
2345
01:08
you break it in part, in two,
22
68506
1635
01:10
and it makes lots of energy,
23
70141
1547
01:11
and this is how the nuclear reactor today works.
24
71688
2213
01:13
It works pretty good.
25
73901
1409
01:15
And then there's fusion.
26
75310
2154
01:17
Now, I like fusion. Fusion's much better.
27
77464
2406
01:19
So you take two small nuclei,
28
79870
1694
01:21
you put it together, and you make helium,
29
81564
2506
01:24
and that's very nice.
30
84070
1358
01:25
It makes lots of energy.
31
85428
1546
01:26
This is nature's way of producing energy.
32
86974
2600
01:29
The sun and all the stars in the universe
33
89574
2408
01:31
run on fusion.
34
91982
2245
01:34
Now, a fusion plant
35
94227
1896
01:36
would actually be quite cost-effective
36
96123
2315
01:38
and it also would be quite safe.
37
98438
1990
01:40
It only produces short term radioactive waste,
38
100428
4433
01:44
and it cannot melt down.
39
104861
2032
01:46
Now, the fuel from fusion comes from the ocean.
40
106893
2527
01:49
In the ocean, you can extract the fuel
41
109420
1818
01:51
for about one thousandth of a cent
42
111238
1890
01:53
per kilowatt-hour, so that's very, very cheap.
43
113128
2331
01:55
And if the whole planet would run on fusion,
44
115459
3388
01:58
we could extract the fuel from the ocean.
45
118847
1444
02:00
It would run for billions and billions of years.
46
120291
3264
02:03
Now, if fusion is so great, why don't we have it?
47
123555
3772
02:07
Where is it?
48
127327
1336
02:08
Well, there's always a bit of a catch.
49
128663
1848
02:10
Fusion is really, really hard to do.
50
130511
3238
02:13
So the problem is, those two nuclei,
51
133749
2484
02:16
they are both positively charged,
52
136233
1628
02:17
so they don't want to fuse.
53
137861
1791
02:19
They go like this. They go like that.
54
139652
1777
02:21
So in order to make them fuse,
55
141429
964
02:22
you have to throw them at each other with great speed,
56
142393
2187
02:24
and if they have enough speed,
57
144580
913
02:25
they will go against the repulsion,
58
145493
1834
02:27
they will touch, and they will make energy.
59
147327
2153
02:29
Now, the particle speed
60
149480
2407
02:31
is a measure of the temperature.
61
151887
1770
02:33
So the temperature required for fusion
62
153657
1742
02:35
is 150 billion degrees C.
63
155399
3162
02:38
This is rather warm,
64
158561
1831
02:40
and this is why fusion is so hard to do.
65
160392
3446
02:43
Now, I caught my little fusion bug
66
163838
2025
02:45
when I did my Ph.D. here at the University of British Columbia,
67
165863
3670
02:49
and then I got a big job in a laser printer place
68
169533
3052
02:52
making printing for the printing industry.
69
172585
2538
02:55
I worked there for 10 years,
70
175123
2252
02:57
and I got a little bit bored,
71
177375
1680
02:59
and then I was 40, and I got a mid-life crisis,
72
179055
2953
03:02
you know, the usual thing:
73
182008
1633
03:03
Who am I? What should I do?
74
183641
2459
03:06
What should I do? What can I do?
75
186100
2586
03:08
And then I was looking at my good work,
76
188686
2052
03:10
and what I was doing is I was cutting the forests
77
190738
2051
03:12
around here in B.C.
78
192789
1355
03:14
and burying you, all of you,
79
194144
1594
03:15
in millions of tons of junk mail.
80
195738
3442
03:19
Now, that was not very satisfactory.
81
199180
1935
03:21
So some people buy a Porsche.
82
201115
2265
03:23
Others get a mistress.
83
203380
2771
03:26
But I've decided to get my bit
84
206151
1674
03:27
to solve global warming and make fusion happen.
85
207825
4263
03:32
Now, so the first thing I did
86
212088
1731
03:33
is I looked into the literature and I see,
87
213819
2429
03:36
how does fusion work?
88
216248
2742
03:38
So the physicists have been working on fusion for a while,
89
218990
3142
03:42
and one of the ways they do it
90
222132
1316
03:43
is with something called a tokamak.
91
223448
2306
03:45
It's a big ring of magnetic coil,
92
225754
2730
03:48
superconducting coil,
93
228484
1326
03:49
and it makes a magnetic field
94
229810
1350
03:51
in a ring like this,
95
231160
1788
03:52
and the hot gas in the middle,
96
232948
1392
03:54
which is called a plasma, is trapped.
97
234340
2130
03:56
The particles go round and round and round
98
236470
1748
03:58
the circle at the wall.
99
238218
1440
03:59
Then they throw a huge amount of heat in there
100
239658
1528
04:01
to try to cook that to fusion temperature.
101
241186
2474
04:03
So this is the inside of one of those donuts,
102
243660
2328
04:05
and on the right side you can see
103
245988
1332
04:07
the fusion plasma in there.
104
247320
2140
04:09
Now, a second way of doing this
105
249460
2248
04:11
is by using laser fusion.
106
251708
2400
04:14
Now in laser fusion, you have a little ping pong ball,
107
254108
2120
04:16
you put the fusion fuel in the center,
108
256228
2046
04:18
and you zap that with a whole bunch of laser around it.
109
258274
2930
04:21
The lasers are very strong, and it squashes
110
261204
1704
04:22
the ping pong ball really, really quick.
111
262908
1726
04:24
And if you squeeze something hard enough,
112
264634
1955
04:26
it gets hotter,
113
266589
1375
04:27
and if it gets really, really fast,
114
267964
1396
04:29
and they do that in one billionth of a second,
115
269360
2318
04:31
it makes enough energy and enough heat
116
271678
1903
04:33
to make fusion.
117
273581
1336
04:34
So this is the inside of one such machine.
118
274917
2077
04:36
You see the laser beam and the pellet
119
276994
1843
04:38
in the center.
120
278837
1549
04:40
Now, most people think that fusion is going nowhere.
121
280386
2962
04:43
They always think that the physicists are in their lab
122
283348
2932
04:46
and they're working hard, but nothing is happening.
123
286280
1815
04:48
That's actually not quite true.
124
288095
1520
04:49
This is a curve of the gain in fusion
125
289615
1992
04:51
over the last 30 years or so,
126
291607
2192
04:53
and you can see that we're making now
127
293799
1558
04:55
about 10,000 times more fusion than we used to
128
295357
2833
04:58
when we started.
129
298190
1074
04:59
That's a pretty good gain.
130
299264
995
05:00
As a matter of fact, it's as fast
131
300259
1986
05:02
as the fabled Moore's Law
132
302245
1700
05:03
that defined the amount of transistors
133
303945
2204
05:06
they can put on a chip.
134
306149
1517
05:07
Now, this dot here is called JET,
135
307666
3005
05:10
the Joint European Torus.
136
310671
1423
05:12
It's a big tokamak donut in Europe,
137
312094
2430
05:14
and this machine in 1997
138
314524
3070
05:17
produced 16 megawatts of fusion power
139
317594
3224
05:20
with 17 megawatts of heat.
140
320818
2158
05:22
Now, you say, that's not much use,
141
322976
1805
05:24
but it's actually pretty close,
142
324781
1711
05:26
considering we can get
143
326492
1040
05:27
about 10,000 times more than we started.
144
327532
2307
05:29
The second dot here is the NIF.
145
329839
2613
05:32
It's the National Ignition Facility.
146
332452
2286
05:34
It's a big laser machine in the U.S.,
147
334738
2526
05:37
and last month they announced
148
337264
1277
05:38
with quite a bit of noise
149
338541
1853
05:40
that they had managed to make more fusion energy
150
340394
2158
05:42
from the fusion
151
342552
1590
05:44
than the energy that they put in the center of the ping pong ball.
152
344142
2856
05:46
Now, that's not quite good enough,
153
346998
1825
05:48
because the laser to put that energy in
154
348823
1700
05:50
was more energy than that,
155
350523
1732
05:52
but it was pretty good.
156
352255
2040
05:54
Now this is ITER,
157
354295
1727
05:56
pronounced in French: EE-tairh.
158
356022
2058
05:58
So this is a big collaboration of different countries
159
358080
3131
06:01
that are building a huge magnetic donut
160
361211
1855
06:03
in the south of France,
161
363066
1944
06:05
and this machine, when it's finished,
162
365010
2008
06:07
will produce 500 megawatts of fusion power
163
367018
2778
06:09
with only 50 megawatts to make it.
164
369796
2400
06:12
So this one is the real one.
165
372196
1186
06:13
It's going to work.
166
373382
732
06:14
That's the kind of machine that makes energy.
167
374114
2192
06:16
Now if you look at the graph, you will notice
168
376306
1756
06:18
that those two dots are a little bit
169
378062
1505
06:19
on the right of the curve.
170
379567
1042
06:20
We kind of have fallen off the progress.
171
380609
1936
06:22
Actually, the science to make those machines
172
382545
1989
06:24
was really in time
173
384534
1536
06:26
to produce fusion during that curve.
174
386070
2836
06:28
However, there has been a bit of politics going on,
175
388906
2739
06:31
and the will to do it was not there,
176
391645
2132
06:33
so it drifted to the right.
177
393777
1678
06:35
ITER, for example, could have been built
178
395455
2056
06:37
in 2000 or 2005,
179
397511
1851
06:39
but because it's a big international collaboration,
180
399362
2445
06:41
the politics got in and it delayed it a bit.
181
401807
2448
06:44
For example, it took them about three years
182
404255
1624
06:45
to decide where to put it.
183
405879
1568
06:47
Now, fusion is often criticized
184
407447
2536
06:49
for being a little too expensive.
185
409983
1600
06:51
Yes, it did cost
186
411583
1541
06:53
a billion dollars or two billion dollars a year
187
413124
2036
06:55
to make this progress.
188
415160
1193
06:56
But you have to compare that to the cost
189
416353
1590
06:57
of making Moore's Law.
190
417943
1240
06:59
That cost way more than that.
191
419183
1888
07:01
The result of Moore's Law
192
421071
1518
07:02
is this cell phone here in my pocket.
193
422589
1936
07:04
This cell phone, and the Internet behind it,
194
424525
2229
07:06
cost about one trillion dollars,
195
426754
2680
07:09
just so I can take a selfie
196
429434
3231
07:12
and put it on Facebook.
197
432665
2574
07:15
Then when my dad sees that,
198
435239
1501
07:16
he'll be very proud.
199
436740
3180
07:19
We also spend about 650 billion dollars a year
200
439920
3908
07:23
in subsidies for oil and gas
201
443828
2302
07:26
and renewable energy.
202
446130
1630
07:27
Now, we spend one half of a percent of that on fusion.
203
447760
4174
07:31
So me, personally, I don't think it's too expensive.
204
451934
2648
07:34
I think it's actually been shortchanged,
205
454582
1780
07:36
considering it can solve all our energy problems
206
456362
2392
07:38
cleanly for the next couple of billions of years.
207
458754
2674
07:41
Now I can say that, but I'm a little bit biased,
208
461428
2660
07:44
because I started a fusion company
209
464088
1888
07:45
and I don't even have a Facebook account.
210
465976
2558
07:48
So when I started this fusion company in 2002,
211
468534
5383
07:53
I knew I couldn't fight with the big lads.
212
473917
2842
07:56
They had much more resources than me.
213
476759
1577
07:58
So I decided I would need to find a solution
214
478336
2240
08:00
that is cheaper and faster.
215
480576
1887
08:02
Now magnetic and laser fusion
216
482463
1910
08:04
are pretty good machines.
217
484373
1431
08:05
They are awesome pieces of technology,
218
485804
1441
08:07
wonderful machines, and they have shown
219
487245
1874
08:09
that fusion can be done.
220
489119
1479
08:10
However, as a power plant,
221
490598
1954
08:12
I don't think they're very good.
222
492552
1871
08:14
They're way too big, way too complicated,
223
494423
2057
08:16
way too expensive,
224
496480
1138
08:17
and also, they don't deal very much
225
497618
1756
08:19
with the fusion energy.
226
499374
1274
08:20
When you make fusion, the energy comes out
227
500648
1758
08:22
as neutrons, fast neutrons comes out of the plasma.
228
502406
2668
08:25
Those neutrons hit the wall of the machine.
229
505074
2260
08:27
It damages it.
230
507334
1385
08:28
And also, you have to catch the heat from those neutrons
231
508719
1964
08:30
and run some steam to spin a turbine somewhere,
232
510683
2433
08:33
and on those machines,
233
513116
1284
08:34
it was all a bit of an afterthought.
234
514400
2631
08:37
So I decided that surely there is a better way of doing that.
235
517031
3151
08:40
So back to the literature,
236
520182
1284
08:41
and I read about the fusion everywhere.
237
521466
1992
08:43
One way in particular attracted my attention,
238
523458
2722
08:46
and it's called magnetized target fusion,
239
526180
2090
08:48
or MTF for short.
240
528270
2588
08:50
Now, in MTF, what you want to do
241
530858
2442
08:53
is you take a big vat
242
533300
1970
08:55
and you fill that with liquid metal,
243
535270
2016
08:57
and you spin the liquid metal
244
537286
1520
08:58
to open a vortex in the center,
245
538806
1648
09:00
a bit like your sink.
246
540454
1136
09:01
When you pull the plug on a sink, it makes a vortex.
247
541590
2104
09:03
And then you have some pistons driven by pressure
248
543694
2396
09:06
that goes on the outside,
249
546090
1476
09:07
and this compresses the liquid metal
250
547566
1920
09:09
around the plasma, and it compresses it,
251
549486
1762
09:11
it gets hotter, like a laser,
252
551248
1654
09:12
and then it makes fusion.
253
552902
1226
09:14
So it's a bit of a mix
254
554128
920
09:15
between a magnetized fusion
255
555048
1655
09:16
and the laser fusion.
256
556703
1983
09:18
So those have a couple of very good advantages.
257
558686
2773
09:21
The liquid metal absorbs all the neutrons
258
561459
2343
09:23
and no neutrons hit the wall,
259
563802
1756
09:25
and therefore there's no damage to the machine.
260
565558
2136
09:27
The liquid metal gets hot,
261
567694
1456
09:29
so you can pump that in a heat exchanger,
262
569150
2000
09:31
make some steam, spin a turbine.
263
571150
1880
09:33
So that's a very convenient way of doing
264
573030
1179
09:34
this part of the process.
265
574209
1260
09:35
And finally, all the energy to make the fusion happen
266
575469
3591
09:39
comes from steam-powered pistons,
267
579060
2135
09:41
which is way cheaper than lasers
268
581195
1656
09:42
or superconducting coils.
269
582851
1894
09:44
Now, this was all very good
270
584745
1488
09:46
except for the problem that it didn't quite work.
271
586233
2504
09:48
(Laughter)
272
588737
1870
09:50
There's always a catch.
273
590607
1296
09:51
So when you compress that,
274
591903
1514
09:53
the plasma cools down
275
593417
1924
09:55
faster than the compression speed,
276
595341
1628
09:56
so you're trying to compress it,
277
596969
1313
09:58
but the plasma cooled down and cooled down and cooled down
278
598282
2335
10:00
and then it did absolutely nothing.
279
600617
1941
10:02
So when I saw that, I said, well, this is such a shame,
280
602558
2035
10:04
because it's a very, very good idea.
281
604593
1750
10:06
So hopefully I can improve on that.
282
606343
2354
10:08
So I thought about it for a minute,
283
608697
1095
10:09
and I said, okay, how can we make that work better?
284
609792
2077
10:11
So then I thought about impact.
285
611869
1858
10:13
What about if we use a big hammer
286
613727
1834
10:15
and we swing it and we hit the nail like this,
287
615561
2532
10:18
in the place of putting the hammer on the nail
288
618093
1974
10:20
and pushing and try to put it in? That won't work.
289
620067
2195
10:22
So what the idea is
290
622262
1931
10:24
is to use the idea of an impact.
291
624193
1744
10:25
So we accelerate the pistons with steam,
292
625937
2082
10:28
that takes a little bit of time,
293
628019
1279
10:29
but then, bang! you hit the piston,
294
629298
1983
10:31
and, baff!, all the energy is done instantly,
295
631281
2552
10:33
down instantly to the liquid,
296
633833
1596
10:35
and that compresses the plasma much faster.
297
635429
2050
10:37
So I decided, okay, this is good, let's make that.
298
637479
2448
10:39
So we built this machine in this garage here.
299
639927
3725
10:43
We made a small machine
300
643652
1085
10:44
that we managed to squeeze
301
644737
1972
10:46
a little bit of neutrons out of that,
302
646709
1648
10:48
and those are my marketing neutrons,
303
648357
2201
10:50
and with those marketing neutrons,
304
650558
1443
10:52
then I raised about 50 million dollars,
305
652001
2599
10:54
and I hired 65 people. That's my team here.
306
654600
2890
10:57
And this is what we want to build.
307
657490
1582
10:59
So it's going to be a big machine,
308
659072
1514
11:00
about three meters in diameter,
309
660586
1474
11:02
liquid lead spinning around,
310
662060
1802
11:03
big vortex in the center,
311
663862
1592
11:05
put the plasma on the top and on the bottom,
312
665454
2320
11:07
piston hits on the side,
313
667774
1426
11:09
bang!, it compresses it,
314
669200
1510
11:10
and it will make some energy,
315
670710
1284
11:11
and the neutron will come out in the liquid metal,
316
671994
2392
11:14
going to go in a steam engine and make the turbine,
317
674386
2600
11:16
and some of the steam will go back
318
676986
1506
11:18
to fire the piston.
319
678492
998
11:19
We're going to run that about one time per second,
320
679490
1890
11:21
and it will produce 100 megawatts of electricity.
321
681380
5384
11:26
Okay, we also built this injector,
322
686764
1685
11:28
so this injector makes the plasma to start with.
323
688449
2287
11:30
It makes the plasma at about
324
690736
1715
11:32
a lukewarm temperature of three million degrees C.
325
692451
3975
11:36
Unfortunately, it doesn't last quite long enough,
326
696426
2207
11:38
so we need to extend the life of the plasma a little bit,
327
698633
3135
11:41
but last month it got a lot better,
328
701768
1632
11:43
so I think we have the plasma compressing now.
329
703400
2585
11:45
Then we built a small sphere, about this big,
330
705985
2556
11:48
14 pistons around it,
331
708541
1466
11:50
and this will compress the liquid.
332
710007
2324
11:52
However, plasma is difficult to compress.
333
712331
2105
11:54
When you compress it,
334
714436
789
11:55
it tends to go a little bit crooked like that,
335
715225
2552
11:57
so you need the timing of the piston
336
717777
1608
11:59
to be very good,
337
719385
1096
12:00
and for that we use several control systems,
338
720481
2672
12:03
which was not possible in 1970,
339
723153
2202
12:05
but we now can do that
340
725355
1392
12:06
with nice, new electronics.
341
726747
3292
12:10
So finally, most people think that fusion
342
730039
2529
12:12
is in the future and will never happen,
343
732568
2152
12:14
but as a matter of fact, fusion is getting very close.
344
734720
3094
12:17
We are almost there.
345
737814
1076
12:18
The big labs have shown that fusion is doable,
346
738890
2637
12:21
and now there are small companies that are thinking about that,
347
741527
2307
12:23
and they say, it's not that it cannot be done,
348
743834
2361
12:26
but it's how to make it cost-effectively.
349
746195
2105
12:28
General Fusion is one of those small companies,
350
748300
2153
12:30
and hopefully, very soon, somebody, someone,
351
750453
3318
12:33
will crack that nut,
352
753771
1283
12:35
and perhaps it will be General Fusion.
353
755054
1574
12:36
Thank you very much.
354
756628
1779
12:38
(Applause)
355
758407
4180
About this website

This site will introduce you to YouTube videos that are useful for learning English. You will see English lessons taught by top-notch teachers from around the world. Double-click on the English subtitles displayed on each video page to play the video from there. The subtitles scroll in sync with the video playback. If you have any comments or requests, please contact us using this contact form.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7