To future generations of women, you are the roots of change | Gloria Steinem

60,341 views ・ 2020-12-03

TED


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譯者: Hsin-Hui Lin 審譯者: Amanda Zhu
00:13
Gloria Steinem: Yes, hello, hello.
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格洛麗亞.斯泰納姆:是的,喂?
00:15
Pat Mitchell: Hello, hello.
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帕特.米切爾:嗨,哈囉。
00:16
What a thrill to have this opportunity.
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非常興奮能有這次機會。
00:19
When we ask all of our TED community, many of them,
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我們在 TED 社群裡問了許多人:
00:23
"Who would you like to hear from if we're going to look forward and onward,
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「假如談到『世界上女性的展望』,
00:28
when it comes to women in the world?"
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你們會想聽到誰的演說?」
00:31
Unanimously, the answer was "Gloria Steinem."
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答案不約而同是 「格洛麗亞.斯泰納姆」。
00:35
Now I know you're way too modest to accept that easily,
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我知道你一定會謙虛推辭,
00:39
so before we move onward,
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所以在繼續進行之前,
00:42
may I go back a bit,
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因為我們很早就認識了,
00:44
since we have known each other for a long time,
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是否能讓我回溯一下,
00:47
and talk about those early days when you were building a movement,
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談談早些年你發起運動、
00:54
challenging stereotypes,
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挑戰刻板印象、
00:56
moving beyond cultural norms.
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超越社會常規的日子。
00:59
You must have had some manifestation of "Fearless" in your life.
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你的人生中一定有過「無懼」的時刻,
01:03
What were your fears and how did you overcome them?
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你過往的恐懼是什麼?如何克服它們?
01:08
GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears,
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格:我當然害怕很多東西,
01:10
and chief among them was speaking in public,
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最大的恐懼就是在公開場合演講,
01:14
just like I am now.
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像我現在一樣。
01:16
Because, you know, we choose to express ourselves
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我們都會選擇用 最自在的方式去表達自己。
01:19
in the way that is most natural,
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01:21
and I became a writer because I didn't want to talk.
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而我選擇當作家, 正是因為我不想演講。
01:24
So the first thing I had to overcome was the fear of public speaking,
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所以我首要克服的 就是公開演講的恐懼,
01:29
and because I was afraid to do it by myself,
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因為我實在很怕單獨進行,
01:33
I asked a friend to do it with me --
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所以我請了朋友跟我一起:
01:35
Dorothy Pitman Hughes, and then Flo Kennedy --
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先是多蘿西.皮特曼.休斯, 然後弗洛.肯尼迪……
01:38
anyway, so we became, in that way, somewhat accidentally,
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總之,不知怎的就變成
01:42
one white woman, one Black woman, speaking together, which, you know,
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一位白人女性、一位黑人女性互相對談,
01:47
was very helpful to express that the movement was for everyone.
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恰好表達了這場運動 是為所有人而存在。
01:53
PM: And in those early days,
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帕:早些年的日子,
01:56
when you were becoming, not only a really powerful public speaker,
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你不僅頂住自身的恐懼,
成為具渲染力的公眾演說家;
02:02
in spite of your fears,
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02:04
you were also normalizing and creating
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你也讓大眾對「女性主義」的反應趨於正常,
02:07
response to a word that became the anthem for so many of us,
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更講出許多人都奉為圭臬的一句話,
02:13
literally changing lives,
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一句真的改變生命的話;
02:15
standing in front of crowds and saying,
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你站在人群之前,大聲疾呼:
02:18
"Feminism is for every woman."
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「女性主義屬於所有女性。」
02:22
And I see now, as you do, that there are still ways
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但現在,如你所看到的,
我注意到有些人無法理解 女性主義的概念,
02:26
in which feminism is not understood as a concept.
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02:30
Misunderstood, criticized, sometimes ridiculed.
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而是被誤解、批評,有時甚至被奚落。
02:34
How do you describe feminism?
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你會如何形容女性主義呢?
02:38
GS: Well, it's just the radical idea that human beings are all equal
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格:從頭到尾它就是 「人人平等」的概念而已。
02:42
and we can dispense with the labels of gender and class and race
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我們可以不再使用性別、 階級、種族的標籤,
02:48
and begin to realize our unique individuality.
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開始去意識到每個個體的獨特性。
02:53
Of course feminism was misunderstood in the beginning,
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當然在一開始, 女性主義受到許多誤解,
02:56
as if it were about female superiority
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以為女性主義倡導女性至上,
03:00
or it was a movement for lesbians only,
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或只是女同志的專屬運動,
03:03
not for all women.
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而不是給全體女性的。
03:04
I mean, you know, there were all kinds of misunderstandings,
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誤解五花八門,
03:09
not to mention ridicule.
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更別說嘲笑了。
但我希望這些都是過去式。
03:11
But I hope that that's past.
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03:12
I used to just send people to the dictionary
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我還曾經給民眾字典, 讓他們自己查「女性主義」。
03:15
to look up feminism, very helpful.
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滿有用的。
03:17
(Both laugh)
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(兩人的笑聲)
03:19
PM: How do you feel the new generation
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帕:你認為新的一代
03:21
and the next generation of young women --
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及下一代的年輕女性,
03:24
what is their relationship with the word
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她們與「女性主義」這個字的關係,
03:27
and the concept of, "there's still a lot to be done
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還有她們如何看待
「平等尚未達成, 改變仍須進行」的想法?
03:30
to reach that equal step"?
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03:33
GS: Yeah, well I don't think that --
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格:我不覺得……
03:35
I mean, the word is still there, womanism, women's liberation,
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類似的用詞的確很多: 有色人種女性主義、婦女解放等等,
03:39
there are all kinds of words,
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有很多名詞,
03:41
but I think it's much more about content
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但我認為真正重要的是內容,
03:45
and not worrying too much about form.
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而不要太去計較形式。
03:48
So Black Lives Matter was started by three young Black feminists.
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「黑人的命也是命」運動 是由三名黑人女性主義者發起。
03:53
You know, that was their creation
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那是她們所創造出來的,
03:56
that is beginning to change much that needs to be changed.
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開始去改變那些需要被改變的。
04:02
And they just assumed
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她們也自認是以黑人女性主義者的身分
04:03
that of course they were there as three young Black feminists.
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來發起這個運動。
04:07
PM: And in the early days of the women's movement
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帕:不管是以前的婦女運動時期
04:10
and continuing all the way through,
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或是現在,
04:12
one of the ways that we have learned to talk to each other
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在溝通困難議題時都可能會產生歧見,
04:15
about difficult issues in which we may have disagreements,
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我們學到的其中一個方法
04:19
were sort of the talking circles or the consciousness raising,
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便是用提高對問題認知的 團體談話圈圈的方式,
04:23
but is this something we could do
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我們也可以用這個方法
04:26
to begin to build back the bridges between us?
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在雙方之間搭起一座橋樑嗎?
04:32
GS: You know, I regret the emphasis on divisions,
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格:其實我有點後悔強調分裂,
04:35
because we are more unified than any other movement in history.
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因為這其實是史上最團結的運動,
04:39
So I think we ought to celebrate that fact.
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我覺得我們應該要頌揚這個是實。
04:44
And it comes out of talking circles as you point out,
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至於你所提到的談話圈圈,
04:48
which used to be called consciousness raising groups.
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以前被稱作提高認知小組,
04:51
And it just means that you sit in a circle,
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基本上就是圍一個圈圈坐,
04:54
as Native Americans taught us long ago,
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像美國原住民很久之前教我們的那樣,
04:58
and you each get to speak in turn --
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接著每個人輪流說話,
05:02
Native Americans passed around a talking stick --
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就像原住民將談話棒 一位一位傳下去一樣。
05:06
and everybody has to listen while each person --
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輪到的人講話的時候,其他人聆聽。
05:09
and in that way, you say unsayable things
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這種方式可以使人說出難以啟齒的事情,
05:13
and somebody on the other side of the circle says,
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圈圈對面的人可能會說:
05:16
"Oh, I've experienced that too."
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「噢,我也經歷過這樣的事。」
05:18
And you discover what is shared
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然後你就會產生共鳴。
05:22
and also, you discover how you can help each other.
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同時也會發現該如何去幫助對方。
05:28
There's no substitute for those kinds of talking circles.
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沒有比這種談話圈圈更好的替代方案了。
05:34
PM: I want to be the first to volunteer with you, Gloria,
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帕:格洛麗亞,我會第一個自願
05:38
to start the talking circles and passing the talking sticks again.
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加入你的談話小圈圈,一起傳談話棒。
05:42
One of the surprising things that people who come into your presence
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當人們遇到你的時候
05:47
are always surprised to find out what a great sense of humor you have.
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總是會很驚訝地發現你的幽默。
05:51
And one of my favorite books of the many you have written
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你寫了許多書,
05:54
sits by my bedside,
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我都放在床頭,
05:56
and the title of it -- forgive me those who might not like bad language --
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其中我最喜歡的一本,請觀眾原諒我的用詞,
06:00
the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off!"
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書名是《真相會讓你解脫,但會先氣死你!》
06:05
So I'm wondering now what truth is setting you free
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所以我想問,是什麼真相讓你自由?
06:09
and what continues to piss you off?
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又是什麼真相讓你氣死了呢?
06:14
GS: Well, actually, right at this moment,
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格:這個嘛,以現在來說,
06:17
I mean, the truth is COVID --
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真相是新冠肺炎。
06:20
you know, and we understand that is a universal experience
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我們了解這是一場全球共同面對的危機,
06:25
and danger we're all dealing with,
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06:27
and what pisses me off is that we don't use that experience
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但讓我氣死的是
我們並沒有把所學的經驗 作正面的運用。
06:34
in the positive sense.
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06:36
In the sense that we learn from dangers
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我們在危機和成就之中 都學到了一些東西,
06:41
as well as from accomplishments.
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06:44
It pisses me off that this is not used in a positive way
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我氣的是我們沒有 以正面的方式來運用它,
06:49
to overcome the idea of categories of human beings
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沒有用在克服
區隔人種、國界、國家觀念。
06:55
or of national boundaries or of countries.
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06:58
I mean, we're all here on Spaceship Earth.
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我們都在這艘「地球號」太空船上。
07:01
(Laughs)
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(笑)
07:02
We're all citizens of Spaceship Earth, and COVID knows that,
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我們都是地球號太空船上的子民, 而新冠肺炎這個是實。
07:06
so it should help to teach us that.
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我們應該要能從中學到這點教訓的。
07:09
PM: And as we're looking at our current reality,
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帕:今日現況,
07:12
we've seen yet another great milestone for women,
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我們可以看到另一個女性的里程碑,
07:15
in this country for sure,
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尤其是在這個國家,
07:18
with the newly elected Vice President Kamala Harris,
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新任準副總統賀錦麗
07:21
who said in her speech, you know,
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在她的演說中講道:
07:23
"I may be the first, but I won't be the last,"
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「我可能是第一個, 但我絕不是最後一位。」
07:26
and I think of the many times that you and I and others have said that.
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我想起我們大家都曾說過這樣的話。
07:30
What difference will it make,
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當有更多女性居於領導位置,
07:33
in our country and around the world,
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會為我們國家、甚至整個世界
07:35
when there are more women in all leadership positions,
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帶來什麼不同?
07:39
what are our differences as leaders?
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我們作為領導時有什麼不同?
07:42
GS: Well, I mean for one thing,
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格:首先,
07:44
we will have the advantage of using all of human intelligence
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我們將得以用上全人類的智慧,
07:48
instead of only a small portion of it;
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而不是只用上一小部分的人,
07:50
this would be a good thing.
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這是很棒的一點。
07:54
And we will also allow children
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我們也同時能讓所有孩子
07:59
to see themselves as leaders universally,
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在領袖身上看到自己的影子,
08:03
instead of just one small group.
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而不是只有少數孩子。
08:05
Because right now, when kids look at leaders,
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因為當現在的孩子看向領袖們,
08:09
they don't necessarily see themselves.
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他們並不一定看得見自己的影子
08:13
PM: When we look at you, we see a leader, Gloria,
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帕:格洛麗亞,我們看著你 就看見了一位領導者。
08:15
and there are so many things that you could point to with pride,
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你大可驕傲地為評論許多事,
08:19
although I know you don't.
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但我知道你不會這麼做。
08:22
But what is it that motivates you
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是什麼激勵著你?
08:26
or keeps you on the path onward in those moments of doubt,
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在躊躇的時候,
或當一切看似無望或有恐懼阻礙的時候
08:32
or the times when things look bleak or there are fears,
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是什麼引領你向前?
08:35
or do you ever fear,
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你曾經害怕嗎?
08:37
ever feel those feelings?
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曾經有害怕的感覺嗎?
08:38
GS: No, of course I fear, I mean, definitely.
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格:我當然也害怕過,絕對的。
08:43
But as the slogan goes,
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但就如一句口號所說:
08:46
"Follow the fear and do it anyway.
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「跟隨恐懼,還是要做。
08:48
Fear is a sign of growth."
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害怕不過是成長的徵兆。」
08:50
(Laughs)
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(笑聲)
08:51
It's a good thing, right?
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這是件很棒的事,對吧?
08:53
PM: Right.
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帕:是的。
08:54
GS: I'm so inspired by young women,
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格:年輕女性給我很多啟發。
08:56
I mean, I keep feeling
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我總是覺得
08:58
as if I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born.
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有些朋友還沒有誕生到這個世界,
09:03
And to see that this is profoundly
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我等著他們一同見證
這場亙久、深遠的全球運動。
09:09
a global movement, as it always has been.
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09:13
I mean, you know, even the response to the march right after the inauguration
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就連現任總統就職演說後舉辦的遊行,
09:18
of the current president, in every --
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在拉丁美洲、非洲等區域
09:21
Latin America, Africa, you know, were marching together.
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都同時舉辦遊行。
09:25
It really has become a global movement,
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這真的是一場全球性的運動,
09:28
thanks in large part to technology,
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感謝科技,
09:31
because we can see each other, as we are now,
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我們得以看見對方, 就像我們現在一樣,
09:35
and also just to the contagion of the idea of freedom, you know.
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也要感謝自由這個概念的感染力。
09:42
If women spend nine months being pregnant and caring for a child,
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如果女人懷胎九個月、哺育孩子,
09:48
why isn't it that men are responsible
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為什麼男人不需付出 一半以上的時間照顧孩子,
09:50
for spending that much more than half the time
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09:54
taking care of the child, hello?
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真是令人費解。
09:56
(Laughs)
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(笑)
09:57
Logic is in the eye of the logician, right?
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邏輯只在想找的時候才看得到,對吧?
09:59
(Laughs)
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(笑)
10:01
So you know, wherever you look,
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所以,不管往何處看,
10:04
there's just a discovery of freedom, of common sense, of companionship.
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處處都能發現自由、常識與同伴。
10:11
PM: Is there,
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帕:在你一生所有事物中,
10:12
of all the things in your life,
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是否有那麼一件事
10:15
what has been the greatest source of confidence building and inspiration?
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是你自信與靈感的最大來源?
10:20
Is it the global sisterhood that you've built around the world?
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是你所串連的全世界姐妹們嗎?
10:24
GS: Well, it's just other women.
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格:這是其他姐妹的功勞。
10:27
I mean, I would not have been able to ever conquer
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就像我一開始提到的,
10:29
my fear of public speaking,
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要不是有我無畏的朋友 多蘿西.皮特曼.休斯,
10:31
which is where we started out,
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10:33
if it hadn't been for my fearless friend,
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我也無法克服公開演說的恐懼。
10:38
Dorothy Pitman Hughes,
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10:39
you know, for doing it together.
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多虧她與我一起完成。
10:42
So you know, it's learning from each other,
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所以,一切都在於彼此學習。
10:47
and just remembering to ask, really,
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還有,一定要記得開口求助,
10:51
because the help is there,
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因為幫助一直都在、
10:53
the inspiration is there,
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靈感一直都在、
10:57
the sense of community is there,
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團體歸屬感也一直都在,
11:00
and I hope that technology can help us in this way,
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我希望科技能在這個層面上幫助我們,
11:06
especially because for women, that's important,
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對女性來說尤為重要,
11:08
because we can communicate in safety.
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我們能因此在安全的環境下彼此溝通。
11:13
But I do regret and worry about the COVID emergency,
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但我也為新冠肺炎的緊急事態 感到遺憾和擔憂,
11:18
because we do also need to be together with all five senses
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因為我們同時也需要 用五感去感受在一起、
11:22
in order to truly empathize.
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去真切地感同身受。
11:25
So I look forward to the day
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所以我期盼
11:28
when you and I can once again be in the same room.
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你我能在同一空間的那天。
11:33
PM: Well, you and I have been in a lot of the same rooms,
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帕:我們曾多次共室。
11:36
and even when you're not in the same room with women everywhere,
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格洛麗亞,即使你與姐妹們不在一起,
11:39
you have inspired them, Gloria.
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你也同樣激勵著他們。
11:41
And to see the full and total story,
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如果想了解故事全貌,
11:44
well, at least part of the full and total story,
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或至少部分的故事全貌,
11:47
the movie has been made about Gloria's life.
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格洛麗亞的人生故事已經改編成電影,
11:50
It's called "The Glorias," based on her book "My Life on the Road,"
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名稱是《榮耀》, 改編自她的著作《我的飄零人生》,
11:54
which is certainly the way you've spent your life,
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裡頭詳實記錄你如何走過你的人生。
11:57
and it's available for livestreaming on Amazon Prime
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亞馬遜 Prime 上有提供直播,
12:01
and I do highly recommend it.
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我本人也極度推薦。
12:05
Gloria, thank you for your work,
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格洛麗亞,謝謝你的付出、
12:08
for your life,
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謝謝你精采的一生、
12:10
for the fearless way in which you have led us all forward,
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也謝謝你引領我們走往無畏的道路。
12:14
and one last next step for moving onward from you?
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你的下一步是什麼呢?
12:19
What advice or counsel?
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是否能給我們一些建議?
12:23
GS: Ah.
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格:嗯……
12:26
Just do it.
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就去做吧。
12:27
(Laughs)
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(笑聲)
12:29
You know, I think we kind of wait for instructions from up there,
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我覺得我們常常在等來自上頭的指示,
12:33
or we worry or something,
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或者我們會擔心之類的。
12:36
and you know, if we just get up in the morning and say,
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但如果我們能在某天醒來,告訴自己:
12:41
"OK, I'm going to do this,
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「好,我要這麼做。
12:43
and I'm going to get in touch with three or four other people,"
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我要去聯絡三到四個人。」
12:47
and just think of change as a tree, you know --
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想想樹是怎麼長大的——
12:51
it doesn't grow from the top down,
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它不是由上往下長,
12:53
so we shouldn't be waiting for somebody to tell us what to do.
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我們也不該等別人 來告訴我們要怎麼做;
12:56
It grows from the bottom up,
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它是由下往上長,
12:59
and we are the roots of change.
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我們自己就是改變的根基。
13:02
PM: We are bearing the roots of your work, Gloria, with gratitude.
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帕:我們享受著你奮鬥的果實。 謝謝你,格洛麗亞。
13:06
Thank you very much for joining us for TEDWomen 2020.
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謝謝你參加 TEDWomen 2020。
13:10
GS: No, and thank you for bringing women together,
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格:不,謝謝你串連了所有女性,
13:12
which is the magic.
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這才是魔力所在。
13:14
Thank you.
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謝謝。
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