To future generations of women, you are the roots of change | Gloria Steinem

譯者: Hsin-Hui Lin 審譯者: Amanda Zhu

Gloria Steinem: Yes, hello, hello.

格洛麗亞．斯泰納姆：是的，喂？

Pat Mitchell: Hello, hello.

帕特．米切爾：嗨，哈囉。

What a thrill to have this opportunity.

非常興奮能有這次機會。

When we ask all of our TED community, many of them,

我們在 TED 社群裡問了許多人：

"Who would you like to hear from if we're going to look forward and onward,

「假如談到『世界上女性的展望』，

when it comes to women in the world?"

你們會想聽到誰的演說？」

Unanimously, the answer was "Gloria Steinem."

答案不約而同是 「格洛麗亞．斯泰納姆」。

Now I know you're way too modest to accept that easily,

我知道你一定會謙虛推辭，

so before we move onward,

所以在繼續進行之前，

may I go back a bit,

因為我們很早就認識了，

since we have known each other for a long time,

是否能讓我回溯一下，

and talk about those early days when you were building a movement,

談談早些年你發起運動、

challenging stereotypes,

挑戰刻板印象、

moving beyond cultural norms.

超越社會常規的日子。

You must have had some manifestation of "Fearless" in your life.

你的人生中一定有過「無懼」的時刻，

What were your fears and how did you overcome them?

你過往的恐懼是什麼？如何克服它們？

GS: No, I certainly had a lot of fears,

格：我當然害怕很多東西，

and chief among them was speaking in public,

最大的恐懼就是在公開場合演講，

just like I am now.

像我現在一樣。

Because, you know, we choose to express ourselves

我們都會選擇用 最自在的方式去表達自己。

in the way that is most natural,

and I became a writer because I didn't want to talk.

而我選擇當作家， 正是因為我不想演講。

So the first thing I had to overcome was the fear of public speaking,

所以我首要克服的 就是公開演講的恐懼，

and because I was afraid to do it by myself,

因為我實在很怕單獨進行，

I asked a friend to do it with me --

所以我請了朋友跟我一起：

Dorothy Pitman Hughes, and then Flo Kennedy --

先是多蘿西．皮特曼．休斯， 然後弗洛．肯尼迪……

anyway, so we became, in that way, somewhat accidentally,

總之，不知怎的就變成

one white woman, one Black woman, speaking together, which, you know,

一位白人女性、一位黑人女性互相對談，

was very helpful to express that the movement was for everyone.

恰好表達了這場運動 是為所有人而存在。

PM: And in those early days,

帕：早些年的日子，

when you were becoming, not only a really powerful public speaker,

你不僅頂住自身的恐懼，

成為具渲染力的公眾演說家；

in spite of your fears,

you were also normalizing and creating

你也讓大眾對「女性主義」的反應趨於正常，

response to a word that became the anthem for so many of us,

更講出許多人都奉為圭臬的一句話，

literally changing lives,

一句真的改變生命的話；

standing in front of crowds and saying,

你站在人群之前，大聲疾呼：

"Feminism is for every woman."

「女性主義屬於所有女性。」

And I see now, as you do, that there are still ways

但現在，如你所看到的，

我注意到有些人無法理解 女性主義的概念，

in which feminism is not understood as a concept.

Misunderstood, criticized, sometimes ridiculed.

而是被誤解、批評，有時甚至被奚落。

How do you describe feminism?

你會如何形容女性主義呢？

GS: Well, it's just the radical idea that human beings are all equal

格：從頭到尾它就是 「人人平等」的概念而已。

and we can dispense with the labels of gender and class and race

我們可以不再使用性別、 階級、種族的標籤，

and begin to realize our unique individuality.

開始去意識到每個個體的獨特性。

Of course feminism was misunderstood in the beginning,

當然在一開始， 女性主義受到許多誤解，

as if it were about female superiority

以為女性主義倡導女性至上，

or it was a movement for lesbians only,

或只是女同志的專屬運動，

not for all women.

而不是給全體女性的。

I mean, you know, there were all kinds of misunderstandings,

誤解五花八門，

not to mention ridicule.

更別說嘲笑了。

但我希望這些都是過去式。

But I hope that that's past.

I used to just send people to the dictionary

我還曾經給民眾字典， 讓他們自己查「女性主義」。

to look up feminism, very helpful.

滿有用的。

(Both laugh)

（兩人的笑聲）

PM: How do you feel the new generation

帕：你認為新的一代

and the next generation of young women --

及下一代的年輕女性，

what is their relationship with the word

她們與「女性主義」這個字的關係，

and the concept of, "there's still a lot to be done

還有她們如何看待

「平等尚未達成， 改變仍須進行」的想法？

to reach that equal step"?

GS: Yeah, well I don't think that --

格：我不覺得……

I mean, the word is still there, womanism, women's liberation,

類似的用詞的確很多： 有色人種女性主義、婦女解放等等，

there are all kinds of words,

有很多名詞，

but I think it's much more about content

但我認為真正重要的是內容，

and not worrying too much about form.

而不要太去計較形式。

So Black Lives Matter was started by three young Black feminists.

「黑人的命也是命」運動 是由三名黑人女性主義者發起。

You know, that was their creation

那是她們所創造出來的，

that is beginning to change much that needs to be changed.

開始去改變那些需要被改變的。

And they just assumed

她們也自認是以黑人女性主義者的身分

that of course they were there as three young Black feminists.

來發起這個運動。

PM: And in the early days of the women's movement

帕：不管是以前的婦女運動時期

and continuing all the way through,

或是現在，

one of the ways that we have learned to talk to each other

在溝通困難議題時都可能會產生歧見，

about difficult issues in which we may have disagreements,

我們學到的其中一個方法

were sort of the talking circles or the consciousness raising,

便是用提高對問題認知的 團體談話圈圈的方式，

but is this something we could do

我們也可以用這個方法

to begin to build back the bridges between us?

在雙方之間搭起一座橋樑嗎？

GS: You know, I regret the emphasis on divisions,

格：其實我有點後悔強調分裂，

because we are more unified than any other movement in history.

因為這其實是史上最團結的運動，

So I think we ought to celebrate that fact.

我覺得我們應該要頌揚這個是實。

And it comes out of talking circles as you point out,

至於你所提到的談話圈圈，

which used to be called consciousness raising groups.

以前被稱作提高認知小組，

And it just means that you sit in a circle,

基本上就是圍一個圈圈坐，

as Native Americans taught us long ago,

像美國原住民很久之前教我們的那樣，

and you each get to speak in turn --

接著每個人輪流說話，

Native Americans passed around a talking stick --

就像原住民將談話棒 一位一位傳下去一樣。

and everybody has to listen while each person --

輪到的人講話的時候，其他人聆聽。

and in that way, you say unsayable things

這種方式可以使人說出難以啟齒的事情，

and somebody on the other side of the circle says,

圈圈對面的人可能會說：

"Oh, I've experienced that too."

「噢，我也經歷過這樣的事。」

And you discover what is shared

然後你就會產生共鳴。

and also, you discover how you can help each other.

同時也會發現該如何去幫助對方。

There's no substitute for those kinds of talking circles.

沒有比這種談話圈圈更好的替代方案了。

PM: I want to be the first to volunteer with you, Gloria,

帕：格洛麗亞，我會第一個自願

to start the talking circles and passing the talking sticks again.

加入你的談話小圈圈，一起傳談話棒。

One of the surprising things that people who come into your presence

當人們遇到你的時候

are always surprised to find out what a great sense of humor you have.

總是會很驚訝地發現你的幽默。

And one of my favorite books of the many you have written

你寫了許多書，

sits by my bedside,

我都放在床頭，

and the title of it -- forgive me those who might not like bad language --

其中我最喜歡的一本，請觀眾原諒我的用詞，

the title is "The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Piss You Off!"

書名是《真相會讓你解脫，但會先氣死你！》

So I'm wondering now what truth is setting you free

所以我想問，是什麼真相讓你自由？

and what continues to piss you off?

又是什麼真相讓你氣死了呢？

GS: Well, actually, right at this moment,

格：這個嘛，以現在來說，

I mean, the truth is COVID --

真相是新冠肺炎。

you know, and we understand that is a universal experience

我們了解這是一場全球共同面對的危機，

and danger we're all dealing with,

and what pisses me off is that we don't use that experience

但讓我氣死的是

我們並沒有把所學的經驗 作正面的運用。

in the positive sense.

In the sense that we learn from dangers

我們在危機和成就之中 都學到了一些東西，

as well as from accomplishments.

It pisses me off that this is not used in a positive way

我氣的是我們沒有 以正面的方式來運用它，

to overcome the idea of categories of human beings

沒有用在克服

區隔人種、國界、國家觀念。

or of national boundaries or of countries.

I mean, we're all here on Spaceship Earth.

我們都在這艘「地球號」太空船上。

(Laughs)

（笑）

We're all citizens of Spaceship Earth, and COVID knows that,

我們都是地球號太空船上的子民， 而新冠肺炎這個是實。

so it should help to teach us that.

我們應該要能從中學到這點教訓的。

PM: And as we're looking at our current reality,

帕：今日現況，

we've seen yet another great milestone for women,

我們可以看到另一個女性的里程碑，

in this country for sure,

尤其是在這個國家，

with the newly elected Vice President Kamala Harris,

新任準副總統賀錦麗

who said in her speech, you know,

在她的演說中講道：

"I may be the first, but I won't be the last,"

「我可能是第一個， 但我絕不是最後一位。」

and I think of the many times that you and I and others have said that.

我想起我們大家都曾說過這樣的話。

What difference will it make,

當有更多女性居於領導位置，

in our country and around the world,

會為我們國家、甚至整個世界

when there are more women in all leadership positions,

帶來什麼不同？

what are our differences as leaders?

我們作為領導時有什麼不同？

GS: Well, I mean for one thing,

格：首先，

we will have the advantage of using all of human intelligence

我們將得以用上全人類的智慧，

instead of only a small portion of it;

而不是只用上一小部分的人，

this would be a good thing.

這是很棒的一點。

And we will also allow children

我們也同時能讓所有孩子

to see themselves as leaders universally,

在領袖身上看到自己的影子，

instead of just one small group.

而不是只有少數孩子。

Because right now, when kids look at leaders,

因為當現在的孩子看向領袖們，

they don't necessarily see themselves.

他們並不一定看得見自己的影子

PM: When we look at you, we see a leader, Gloria,

帕：格洛麗亞，我們看著你 就看見了一位領導者。

and there are so many things that you could point to with pride,

你大可驕傲地為評論許多事，

although I know you don't.

但我知道你不會這麼做。

But what is it that motivates you

是什麼激勵著你？

or keeps you on the path onward in those moments of doubt,

在躊躇的時候，

或當一切看似無望或有恐懼阻礙的時候

or the times when things look bleak or there are fears,

是什麼引領你向前？

or do you ever fear,

你曾經害怕嗎？

ever feel those feelings?

曾經有害怕的感覺嗎？

GS: No, of course I fear, I mean, definitely.

格：我當然也害怕過，絕對的。

But as the slogan goes,

但就如一句口號所說：

"Follow the fear and do it anyway.

「跟隨恐懼，還是要做。

Fear is a sign of growth."

害怕不過是成長的徵兆。」

(Laughs)

（笑聲）

It's a good thing, right?

這是件很棒的事，對吧？

PM: Right.

帕：是的。

GS: I'm so inspired by young women,

格：年輕女性給我很多啟發。

I mean, I keep feeling

我總是覺得

as if I just had to wait for some of my friends to be born.

有些朋友還沒有誕生到這個世界，

And to see that this is profoundly

我等著他們一同見證

這場亙久、深遠的全球運動。

a global movement, as it always has been.

I mean, you know, even the response to the march right after the inauguration

就連現任總統就職演說後舉辦的遊行，

of the current president, in every --

在拉丁美洲、非洲等區域

Latin America, Africa, you know, were marching together.

都同時舉辦遊行。

It really has become a global movement,

這真的是一場全球性的運動，

thanks in large part to technology,

感謝科技，

because we can see each other, as we are now,

我們得以看見對方， 就像我們現在一樣，

and also just to the contagion of the idea of freedom, you know.

也要感謝自由這個概念的感染力。

If women spend nine months being pregnant and caring for a child,

如果女人懷胎九個月、哺育孩子，

why isn't it that men are responsible

為什麼男人不需付出 一半以上的時間照顧孩子，

for spending that much more than half the time

taking care of the child, hello?

真是令人費解。

(Laughs)

（笑）

Logic is in the eye of the logician, right?

邏輯只在想找的時候才看得到，對吧？

(Laughs)

（笑）

So you know, wherever you look,

所以，不管往何處看，

there's just a discovery of freedom, of common sense, of companionship.

處處都能發現自由、常識與同伴。

PM: Is there,

帕：在你一生所有事物中，

of all the things in your life,

是否有那麼一件事

what has been the greatest source of confidence building and inspiration?

是你自信與靈感的最大來源？

Is it the global sisterhood that you've built around the world?

是你所串連的全世界姐妹們嗎？

GS: Well, it's just other women.

格：這是其他姐妹的功勞。

I mean, I would not have been able to ever conquer

就像我一開始提到的，

my fear of public speaking,

要不是有我無畏的朋友 多蘿西．皮特曼．休斯，

which is where we started out,

if it hadn't been for my fearless friend,

我也無法克服公開演說的恐懼。

Dorothy Pitman Hughes,

you know, for doing it together.

多虧她與我一起完成。

So you know, it's learning from each other,

所以，一切都在於彼此學習。

and just remembering to ask, really,

還有，一定要記得開口求助，

because the help is there,

因為幫助一直都在、

the inspiration is there,

靈感一直都在、

the sense of community is there,

團體歸屬感也一直都在，

and I hope that technology can help us in this way,

我希望科技能在這個層面上幫助我們，

especially because for women, that's important,

對女性來說尤為重要，

because we can communicate in safety.

我們能因此在安全的環境下彼此溝通。

But I do regret and worry about the COVID emergency,

但我也為新冠肺炎的緊急事態 感到遺憾和擔憂，

because we do also need to be together with all five senses

因為我們同時也需要 用五感去感受在一起、

in order to truly empathize.

去真切地感同身受。

So I look forward to the day

所以我期盼

when you and I can once again be in the same room.

你我能在同一空間的那天。

PM: Well, you and I have been in a lot of the same rooms,

帕：我們曾多次共室。

and even when you're not in the same room with women everywhere,

格洛麗亞，即使你與姐妹們不在一起，

you have inspired them, Gloria.

你也同樣激勵著他們。

And to see the full and total story,

如果想了解故事全貌，

well, at least part of the full and total story,

或至少部分的故事全貌，

the movie has been made about Gloria's life.

格洛麗亞的人生故事已經改編成電影，

It's called "The Glorias," based on her book "My Life on the Road,"

名稱是《榮耀》， 改編自她的著作《我的飄零人生》，

which is certainly the way you've spent your life,

裡頭詳實記錄你如何走過你的人生。

and it's available for livestreaming on Amazon Prime

亞馬遜 Prime 上有提供直播，

and I do highly recommend it.

我本人也極度推薦。

Gloria, thank you for your work,

格洛麗亞，謝謝你的付出、

for your life,

謝謝你精采的一生、

for the fearless way in which you have led us all forward,

也謝謝你引領我們走往無畏的道路。

and one last next step for moving onward from you?

你的下一步是什麼呢？

What advice or counsel?

是否能給我們一些建議？

GS: Ah.

格：嗯……

Just do it.

就去做吧。

(Laughs)

（笑聲）

You know, I think we kind of wait for instructions from up there,

我覺得我們常常在等來自上頭的指示，

or we worry or something,

或者我們會擔心之類的。

and you know, if we just get up in the morning and say,

但如果我們能在某天醒來，告訴自己：

"OK, I'm going to do this,

「好，我要這麼做。

and I'm going to get in touch with three or four other people,"

我要去聯絡三到四個人。」

and just think of change as a tree, you know --

想想樹是怎麼長大的——

it doesn't grow from the top down,

它不是由上往下長，

so we shouldn't be waiting for somebody to tell us what to do.

我們也不該等別人 來告訴我們要怎麼做；

It grows from the bottom up,

它是由下往上長，

and we are the roots of change.

我們自己就是改變的根基。

PM: We are bearing the roots of your work, Gloria, with gratitude.

帕：我們享受著你奮鬥的果實。 謝謝你，格洛麗亞。

Thank you very much for joining us for TEDWomen 2020.

謝謝你參加 TEDWomen 2020。

GS: No, and thank you for bringing women together,

格：不，謝謝你串連了所有女性，

which is the magic.

這才是魔力所在。

Thank you.

謝謝。