Valerie Purdie-Greenaway: The anxiety that comes from being treated like an outsider | TED

Transcriber:

翻译人员: Joyce Jiang 校对人员: Bruce Wang

[How to Deal with Difficult Feelings]

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, welcome.

【如何处理复杂的情绪】

You are watching a TED Interview series

called "How to Deal with Difficult Feelings."

Cloe Shasha Brooks: 您好，欢迎。

您正在观看一个名为《如何处理复杂情绪》 的TED采访系列。

I'm Cloe Shasha Brooks, your host and a curator at TED.

Now I will be speaking with Valerie Purdie-Greenaway,

我是Cloe Shasha Brooks, 您的主持人，以及一名TED策展人。

social psychologist and Columbia University professor.

接下来我要与 Valerie Purdie-Greenaway通话。

She directs the Laboratory of Intergroup Relations and the Social Mind,

她是一名社会心理学家， 也是哥伦比亚大学的一位教授。

where she researches the us-versus-them mindset

作为群际关系和 社会心理实验室的指导人员，

with the goal of fostering understanding between groups.

她希望通过研究我们对比他们心态，

And she has wisdom to share

about the relationship between feeling like an outsider

来促进各个群体之间的谅解。

她要和大家分享一些智慧，

and anxiety.

So let's bring on Valerie.

关于感觉自己像个局外人 与感到焦虑之间的关系。

Hello, Valerie, thank you for being here.

让我们欢迎Valerie.

One of the things I've been excited to ask you about is just, you know,

您好，Valerie。感谢您的到来。

you talk about how there's two ways of seeing anxiety, right?

我非常期待问您的 一个问题就是，您知道，

Chronic anxiety and context-based anxiety.

您经常说有两种看待焦虑的方式，对吧？

So can you define the two for us?

慢性焦虑和特定语境导致的焦虑。

Valerie Purdie-Greenaway: There's two ways of thinking about anxiety.

所以，您能为我们定义一下它们吗？

I think the first way that people traditionally think about anxiety

Valerie Purdie-Greenaway: 有两种解读焦虑的方式。

is chronic anxiety.

我觉得人们按照传统意义上 对焦虑的第一种想法就是慢性焦虑。

We are still in the midst of a pandemic.

People are anxious.

我们目前还在一场大流行病中。

Some others might think of anxiety in terms of their personality,

很多人都感到了焦虑。

有些人可能会根据自己的性格 来思考自己的焦虑，

you know, their micromanagers,

and these kinds of anxieties are sort of everyday anxieties

就像，他们的微观管理者，

而这种焦虑就是那种 会伴随我们很长时间的日常焦虑。

that are with us for a long period of time.

What I study is another kind of anxiety

that other people may not be aware of.

我研究的是另外一种，

And this is the anxiety that comes from being part of a social group,

很多人可能都意识不到的焦虑。

这种焦虑来自你的各个社会团体，

whether it's your race, your ethnicity, your gender, your sexual orientation,

比如你的种族、性别、性向、尺码，

your size,

and walking around the world

and sort of bumping up to environments where you're stereotyped,

以及走遍各国各地

然后碰到对你的各种刻板印象，

where you're "otherwise-d,"

and that context makes you feel different.

让你成为了“除此以外”，

And in that moment,

让你觉得自己是个异类。

you can feel it's the same biological kind of anxiety and stress,

在这个时刻，

你能感受到它们在生理上是 同一种焦虑和压力，

but it comes from the context.

So I study the kind of stress, anxiety, frustration

但是它来自于语境。

所以我研究的是 受到刻板印象的群体

that stems from being a member of a group that can be stereotyped,

所遭受的压力、焦虑、挫折感，

and I study the kinds of contexts that make that happen,

whether it's at work, at school, church, in your synagogue, you know,

以及导致这些感受的不同语境，

无论是在工作单位、学校、 各种教堂，你懂的，

all of the types of contexts that can either intentionally or inadvertently

所有，不管是故意还是不经意间

make us feel otherwise, which causes that anxiety.

CSB: Yeah. And so, let's say someone's dealing with anxiety

让我们感受到另类的语境， 由此造成的这种焦虑。

in association with a specific context,

CSB：好的。那假设有一个人 正在面对某种语境触发的焦虑，

like being the only person of color in a classroom

or the only woman on a team at work.

比如他是一个班级里 唯一一名有色人种

What would you suggest as strategies for managing that anxiety?

或者是工作团队里的唯一一名女性。

VPG: The first thing is to just recognize that it's not you.

您会建议用什么样的方式 来管理这种焦虑呢？

If you feel stress, you feel anxiety,

VPG：首先，你要意识到 这个问题不在于你。

it's not you.

如果你感到压力或者是焦虑，

There's not something wrong with you.

There's something wrong with the context.

这并不是你。

The second thing is sort of deciding: Is it really worth it?

你没有任何问题。

有问题的是你所处于的语境。

Do you actually care?

其次，你需要思考： 它真的值得吗？

Because not every environment really matters.

你真的在乎吗？

Once you contextualize, once you understand it's not you,

因为并不是所有环境都事关重大。

you have to create a system of support around you

当你将问题语境化， 当你理解不是自己时，

to kind of fact-check your experiences.

你需要在身边建立起一个支持系统

For instance, do you have a mentor who is in a similar situation,

来核查你的经历。

列如，你有没有处于类似情况，

who came some years before you?

When you talk to them, they can help you to understand that it's not you.

但经历比你更早的导师？

你跟他们谈论时，他们能够帮助你理解到 并不是你自己的问题。

They can help you fact-check.

They can help you navigate what's happening.

他们能帮助你核查经历。

I think the other thing which comes out of some research that I have done

他们能协助你操控现况。

is when you situate that moment

从我做过的研究，我还发现

relative to who you are more broadly -- I am bigger than this moment --

当你将那个时刻

跟你更为广阔的自己做比较时 -- 我大于这个时刻 --

sometimes those kinds of affirmations can be incredibly helpful in that moment

这种对自己的肯定

for sort of reducing that stress.

CSB: Well, let's take one of our audience questions.

非常有利于减轻当下的压力。

So from LinkedIn, someone asks,

CSB：那我们来接受一位观众的问题吧。

"What can we do to best support people in our lives

从LinkedIn，有人问，

who are suffering from context-based anxiety?”

“我们怎样才能最大力支持我们生活中

那些正在面对语境焦虑的人？”

VPG: Oh, that's a great question.

The question of what we can do to support others in our lives

VPG：哦，那是个非常好的问题。

我们能做什么来支持我们生活中

that are experiencing context-based identity

is important because oftentimes, it's undetectable.

那些正在经历语境焦虑的人这个问题

One of the most challenging aspects of a context-based stress --

非常重要，因为语境焦虑通常很难意识到。

语境类焦虑最困难的一方面 --

the scientific term is called "stereotype threat" --

专业用语为“刻板印象威胁” --

the challenge with that is you have this physiological feeling.

它的困难在于你会有一些生理上的感觉。

You might feel stressed, you might feel anxious, you might be overworking.

Are you working at two and three in the morning,

你可能会感到压力，感到焦急， 或者你可能会过度劳累自己。

like, overworking on a presentation?

在凌晨两三点钟，你还在工作吗？

But the problem is, you might not be able to actually detect it in others.

比如说，在一个PPT上过度纠结？

可是问题来了，你不一定能在其他人身上探测到它。

You can oftentimes understand

what situations a partner or person or friend is going into ahead of time

你通常可以提前理解

身边的人将要面临一些什么情况

and sort of sharing this idea

that when you're in contexts where you are a solo status,

然后再和他们分享你得到的结论。

you're the only one,

比如你可以跟他们谈； 当你处于某些争对你个人的语境，

this is something that could happen,

当你代表了唯一，

this is an experience you could feel.

哪些事情可能会发生，

It's not you; it's a common situation.

你也有可能会经历哪些感受。

I have found over and over and over again,

这并不在于你，这是一个共同的情况。

just taking the heat off of an individual

我已经三番四次地发现，

to sort of place it back where it's supposed to be in the context

仅仅让他人意识到并放下语境所导致的压力，

is incredibly helpful.

CSB: That's interesting and valuable.

I mean, one of the things that feels connected to that, too,

就非常有帮助了。

CSB：这真的又有趣又有价值。

is obviously, being in these context-based,

我在想，还有一件相关的事情，

anxiety-producing situations

显然就是当我们处于这些以语境为基础，

can create anger and frustration,

制造焦虑的状况中，

especially for those who have been affected by violence or injustice.

我们可能会产生愤怒感和挫败感，

尤其是那些受到过暴力 或者不平等对待的人。

Can you can you talk more about that flow from anger and frustration to anxiety?

您能跟我们多讲一讲从愤怒感和挫败感 演变成焦虑感的过程吗？

VPG: Violence, frustration is, these days,

VPG：当今，暴力与挫败感

far too familiar to many of us.

When we think about all that has come out of George Floyd,

已经被太多人过于熟悉。

we think about the continuing challenges that women face in the workplace,

当我们想到关于George Floyd的事情，

想到女性在工作环境中依旧面临的难处，

we think about the trans community,

and what they're dealing with in terms of athletes and athleticism

想到变性社群，

以及他们在运动员，运动能力，

and whether or not they're considered truly part of a sport,

particularly in women's sports --

还有他们到底算不算运动队的一员 这些方面所面对的问题，

there are so many different identities that are being challenged right now.

特别是在女子运动中 --

And what we find in our research

现在太多的身份都在面临挑战。

is that there's a natural flow from anxiety, stress,

通过我们的研究我们发现

有一个自然的过度；从感到焦虑和压力，

questioning whether, "Is it something about me?"

"What is it about my group?"

比如质疑“是不是我有问题？”

to the shift in understanding that society is seeing and treating you differently,

“我的群体是不是有问题？”，

直到开始领会社会 正在区别看待和区别对待你，

and that causes anger, and that causes frustration.

而这种醒悟就会导致愤怒和挫败感。

The problem with this is, at the physiological level,

it's still stress,

对于这个的问题就是，在生理层次上，

and stress is debilitating.

It keeps us up at night.

它还是属于压力，

It keeps us overeating.

而压力会使人衰弱。

It keeps us undereating.

它会令我们失眠。

You look at the early onset of cardiovascular disease.

它会让我们吃的过多。

它也会让我们吃的过少。

你可能会面对早发的心血管疾病。

The problem is, stress is debilitating.

So even though those moments of anger

压力会导致身体的衰弱； 这是个严重的问题。

may even make you feel like you can do something,

虽然说那些短暂的愤怒

you feel empowered as a group,

可能会让你觉得你能做一些事情，

it still can erode our health.

你感到了群体的力量，

And so when I think about inclusive societies,

但是它还是能侵蚀我们的健康。

所以当我想到包容性社会，

I think about it from a justice perspective.

I also think about it from a health perspective,

我会从正义的看法来考虑它。

because it's all linked together.

我也会从健康的角度来思考它，

CSB: Absolutely. Yeah.

We have another question from the audience. Let's bring that up.

因为它们都是相连的。

CSB：是的，绝对是。

From Facebook: "Is it possible to use anxiety in a positive way?"

我们又有一个来自观众的问题。我们一起看看吧。

VPG: It is absolutely a good idea.

来自Facebook： “焦虑有没有起到正面影响的可能？”

And when you understand that you can leverage the power of anxiety

VPG：这是一个非常好的注意。

当你意识到你可以利用焦虑的力量

in a positive way,

you can do a lot of different things.

So, for instance, there's a relationship between anxiety and performance.

来形成正面的影响，

你可以做各种各样的事情。

比如说，焦虑和表现能力之间有直接的联系。

There's lots of research on this.

It's sort of an old idea.

And the idea is that some anxiety is good.

这方面的研究有很多。

这是一个比较老的想法。

My doctoral advisor, Claude Steele,

而这个想法就是有一些焦虑是好的。

after giving thousands of talks and writing books, I would ask him,

我的博士生导师，Claude Steele，

做过上千次演讲， 也写过很多本书。我曾经问过他，

"Do you still get anxious on the first day of class?"

And he said to me, "Valerie, when you stop being nervous the first day of class,

“上课的第一天您依旧会感到紧张吗？”

然后他回答我，“Valerie，当你在上课的第一天 不再感到紧张的时候，

it's time to retire."

CSB: (Laughs)

VPG: Because that's a good kind of anxiety, right?

你就该退休了。”

But the problem is, that anxiety can also shift to being debilitated,

CSB：（笑）

VPG：因为这是一种好的焦虑，对吗？

但问题是，这种焦虑 可以经过变化而导致虚弱。

where you're just stressed, you start to feel frazzled,

you start to feel like your brain isn't working properly.

你会感到倍感压力，感到疲惫不堪，

And so some anxiety is good.

甚至会觉得自己的大脑无法正常运转。

It's sort of like the sweet spot of anxiety.

总的来说，拥有一点焦虑确实是好的。

And then if you keep going, it can become debilitating and erode performance.

它有点像焦虑的甜蜜点。

可如果你继续往前走的话，它可以导致衰弱 也能对你的表现产生负面影响。

So it's the back-and-forth between some is good, too much is bad,

所以，感到一些焦虑是好的 以及感到太多焦虑是不好的，

that we need to be thinking about,

both as ourselves as individuals

是我们应该时刻想起的道理。

and also when we're part of organizations.

不光是按我们个人来说，

CSB: We have a new question from the audience.

当我们在一个团体当中，它的意义依然相同。

Let's bring that one up, please.

Thank you.

CSB：我们有一个新的观众提问。

OK, Kristin Sánchez Salas from LinkedIn says,

请把它显示出来。

"What can you do if your context-based anxiety is provoked by a colleague,

谢谢。

好的，Kristin Sánchez Salas 从LinkedIn提问，

client, superior or someone you work with regularly?”

“如果你的语境性焦虑源自你的同事，客户，

VPG: My strategy is: first time, forgiveness.

上级，或者是其他一起共事的人，你该怎么办呢？”

VPG：我的策略是：第一次，原谅。

Sometimes, fact-checking:

What is it that you actually heard? What is it that someone said?

有时候，需要核查一下事实：

Trying to understand someone's intentions,

你听到的是什么？别人说的是什么？

that's, I think, the first step.

试图去理解他人的意图，

The second step is,

在我看来，是第一步。

this is something that is not going to be tolerated,

第二步就是，

because it impacts your ability to thrive,

这是一件不能够容忍的事情，

and it impacts other people who are members of their group.

因为它妨碍到了你发展的能力，

So this becomes a manager issue.

也能影响到团体里的其他成员。

This becomes a leadership issue.

所以这就成为了一个经理上的问题。

And true inclusive leadership is taking a stand and saying "We're not doing this,"

一个领导上的问题。

真实的包容性领导就是 要站出来说“我们不能这样，”

and then setting the groundwork so it doesn't happen again.

CSB: Yeah, that's really great advice.

以及再做好基础工作，防止二次发生。

But we're almost at the end,

CSB：是的，这真的是非常好的建议。

so I'm just going to ask you one final question leading from that, which is:

但是我们马上就要结束了，

If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety,

所以我再问最后一个相关的问题，就是：

what's the first thing you should do?

如果你被告知自己是 导致语境性焦虑的罪魁祸首，

你首先应该做什么？

VPG: If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety,

VPG：如果你被告知自己是 导致语境性焦虑的罪魁祸首，

remember my face: it's not you,

it's the situation that you are in.

记住我的表情：这并不是你，

Trust your judgment,

而是你所处于的情况。

particularly if you have experienced solo status once,

相信自己的判断，

you've experienced it again.

尤其是如果你曾经体验过被孤立的感觉，

If you've been stereotyped once,

you've probably had this experience

那你现在又体验到了。

over and over.

如果你曾经体验过刻板印象的滋味，

So trust your intuition that it's not you bringing paranoia to the workplace,

那我猜测你很有可能

不只感受过一次。

因此，你应该相信你的直觉， 并不是你把这些问题带到工作单位的，

that these kind of stereotypes and otherisms are rife and alive.

而是这些刻板印象本来就存在。

I think that's the first thing.

And then the second thing is having these layers of support

我觉得这是最首要的事情。

around mentors and sponsors,

其次呢，就是要拥有多层次的支持，

who can tell you that you are doing just fine,

比如像你的导师。

there's something amiss in this environment.

他们可以随时提醒你你做得很好，

That layer of support is incredibly important.

只是这个大环境有点问题。

It's important for everyone.

这种支持真的非常重要，

But if you're a member of a social group

而且适用于所有人。

that contends with these kinds of challenges in society,

如果你是一个正在抗衡这种社会偏见的

that layer of support that you can go after

社会群体中的一员，

in terms of creating robust social networks,

你可以通过这种多层次的支持

that is a key.

来建立强大的社交网络。

CSB: This has been so valuable, Valerie.

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me.

这是一个关键。

CSB：Valerie，您今天讲的都太有价值了。

VPG: Thank you so much.

非常感谢您抽空来和我交谈。

VPG：非常感谢。