Valerie Purdie-Greenaway: The anxiety that comes from being treated like an outsider | TED

Transcriber:

譯者: Jessie Chen 審譯者: Helen Chang

[How to Deal with Difficult Feelings]

[煩惱，該怎麼辦？]

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, welcome.

克洛伊：哈囉，大家好。

You are watching a TED Interview series

你正在收看 TED 專訪系列，

called "How to Deal with Difficult Feelings."

叫做「煩惱，該怎麼辦？」

I'm Cloe Shasha Brooks, your host and a curator at TED.

我是克洛伊，

是今天的主持人， 也是 TED 的節目企劃。

Now I will be speaking with Valerie Purdie-Greenaway,

現在我要和維拉莉一起來聊聊；

social psychologist and Columbia University professor.

她是社會心理學家， 也是哥倫比亞大學的教授，

She directs the Laboratory of Intergroup Relations and the Social Mind,

同時也是社群關係 及社會思考實驗室的主任，

where she researches the us-versus-them mindset

她研究自我群體相對他人群體的心態，

with the goal of fostering understanding between groups.

目的在於促進群體間的相互了解。

And she has wisdom to share

現在她要以專業知識來探討：

about the relationship between feeling like an outsider

覺得自己是個局外人 和焦慮之間有什麼關係。

and anxiety.

So let's bring on Valerie.

讓我們歡迎維拉莉！

Hello, Valerie, thank you for being here.

哈囉，維拉莉， 感謝你一起來討論。

One of the things I've been excited to ask you about is just, you know,

我很想要問你一個問題，

you talk about how there's two ways of seeing anxiety, right?

你曾經提到兩種不同的焦慮，是嗎？

Chronic anxiety and context-based anxiety.

長期焦慮和情境焦慮。

So can you define the two for us?

這兩種應該怎麼定義？

Valerie Purdie-Greenaway: There's two ways of thinking about anxiety.

維拉莉 ：焦慮分為兩種，

I think the first way that people traditionally think about anxiety

我認為第一種是一般人認知的焦慮，

is chronic anxiety.

叫做長期焦慮。

We are still in the midst of a pandemic.

現在我們還在疫情狀況下，

People are anxious.

大部分的人會感覺焦慮，

Some others might think of anxiety in terms of their personality,

有些人認為 自己的個性就是容易焦慮，

you know, their micromanagers,

或者，老闆管很寬

and these kinds of anxieties are sort of everyday anxieties

這類的焦慮就是所謂的日常焦慮，

that are with us for a long period of time.

會長時間隨著我們。

What I study is another kind of anxiety

我所研究的是另一種焦慮，

that other people may not be aware of.

有些人可能還沒有注意到這種焦慮。

And this is the anxiety that comes from being part of a social group,

這種焦慮來自社群中的角色，

whether it's your race, your ethnicity, your gender, your sexual orientation,

不管是你的膚色、種族、性別、性傾向，

your size,

你的高矮胖瘦，

and walking around the world

如果走遍世界各地，

and sort of bumping up to environments where you're stereotyped,

你可能會遇到被刻板印象看待的環境，

where you're "otherwise-d,"

那種讓你變得有點「另類」的環境，

and that context makes you feel different.

這種環境會讓你覺得和別人不一樣。

And in that moment,

在那當下，

you can feel it's the same biological kind of anxiety and stress,

你會感覺到類似 焦慮、壓力的生理反應，

but it comes from the context.

不過卻是從周圍環境而來的。

So I study the kind of stress, anxiety, frustration

我研究的就是這種壓力、焦慮、挫折，

that stems from being a member of a group that can be stereotyped,

這些主要源自於處於群體裡， 卻受到刻板印象眼光看待。

and I study the kinds of contexts that make that happen,

我也研究的這些情境所發生的背景環境，

whether it's at work, at school, church, in your synagogue, you know,

無論是工作、學校、教堂、猶太會堂，

all of the types of contexts that can either intentionally or inadvertently

各樣的情境 都可能有意無意地

make us feel otherwise, which causes that anxiety.

讓我們感覺自己有點另類， 也就變成焦慮的原因。

CSB: Yeah. And so, let's say someone's dealing with anxiety

克洛伊：好，那麼讓我們聊聊 如果有人正面對

in association with a specific context,

類似這樣的情境焦慮，

like being the only person of color in a classroom

像是課堂上唯一不同膚色的人，

or the only woman on a team at work.

或是工作團隊裡唯一的女性，

What would you suggest as strategies for managing that anxiety?

面對這樣的焦慮，該怎麼辦？

VPG: The first thing is to just recognize that it's not you.

維拉莉：首先， 必須認知到問題不在你。

If you feel stress, you feel anxiety,

如果你感覺到這樣的壓力和焦慮，

it's not you.

問題不在於你。

There's not something wrong with you.

不是你的問題，

There's something wrong with the context.

問題是外在的環境。

The second thing is sort of deciding: Is it really worth it?

其次是決定：真的值得嗎？

Do you actually care?

你真的在乎嗎？

Because not every environment really matters.

並不是每一種外在環境 都與你有切身關係，

Once you contextualize, once you understand it's not you,

一旦你搞清楚事情的來龍去脈， 一旦你明白問題不在於你，

you have to create a system of support around you

你必須在身邊創造出支持系統，

to kind of fact-check your experiences.

檢驗自身經歷的事實根據。

For instance, do you have a mentor who is in a similar situation,

舉例來說，是不是有值得信任的人， 幾年前也曾經有類似經驗的人，

who came some years before you?

能夠引導你度過難關？

When you talk to them, they can help you to understand that it's not you.

你和他們聊起這些困擾時， 他們可以幫你釐清問題不在於你。

They can help you fact-check.

他們可以幫助你檢驗事實根據。

They can help you navigate what's happening.

他們可以引導你仔細看看 到底發生了什麼事？

I think the other thing which comes out of some research that I have done

我認為我所做的研究 還發現其他的結果，

is when you situate that moment

當你處在這樣的情境之下，

relative to who you are more broadly -- I am bigger than this moment --

不要受限於當下的狹隘情境， 而是想我強過當下這個狀況——

sometimes those kinds of affirmations can be incredibly helpful in that moment

有時候這類的心理建設 在當下會有意想不到的助益，

for sort of reducing that stress.

會有效地減輕壓力。

CSB: Well, let's take one of our audience questions.

克洛伊：那麼，我們來看一下觀眾的問題。

So from LinkedIn, someone asks,

在領英 (LinkedIn)，有人發問，

"What can we do to best support people in our lives

如何幫助支持我們的親朋好友，

who are suffering from context-based anxiety?”

如果他們正為情境焦慮所苦？

VPG: Oh, that's a great question.

維拉莉：喔，這是很棒的問題。

The question of what we can do to support others in our lives

如何支持我們的親友，

that are experiencing context-based identity

如果他們正經歷情境問題的認同感，

is important because oftentimes, it's undetectable.

這是很重要的問題， 因為常常不容易察覺。

One of the most challenging aspects of a context-based stress --

情境壓力有一個很困難的問題——

the scientific term is called "stereotype threat" --

科學名詞叫做「刻板印象威脅」——

the challenge with that is you have this physiological feeling.

難題是你的生理感受。

You might feel stressed, you might feel anxious, you might be overworking.

你可能感受到壓力、焦慮， 你可能覺得過度勞累。

Are you working at two and three in the morning,

你是不是凌晨兩、三點還在工作？

like, overworking on a presentation?

是不是為了完成報告而過度勞累？

But the problem is, you might not be able to actually detect it in others.

但是問題是， 你無法輕易察覺別人有這類情形。

You can oftentimes understand

如果你預先察覺到

what situations a partner or person or friend is going into ahead of time

夥伴、某個人或朋友有點不對勁，

and sort of sharing this idea

你可以分享這樣的觀念：

that when you're in contexts where you are a solo status,

就是當你這單獨的個體 身處於群體的情境裡，

you're the only one,

你是唯一的一個，

this is something that could happen,

發生這樣的事情是正常的，

this is an experience you could feel.

這是你可能會經歷到的，

It's not you; it's a common situation.

但問題不在於你；而是一種普遍現象。

I have found over and over and over again,

我一再、一再、不斷地發現，

just taking the heat off of an individual

讓個體少受些批評，

to sort of place it back where it's supposed to be in the context

讓一切回到適當的位置，

is incredibly helpful.

會有很大的幫助。

CSB: That's interesting and valuable.

克洛伊：真是很獨到也很寶貴的見解。

I mean, one of the things that feels connected to that, too,

有一件類似的事情，

is obviously, being in these context-based,

也是顯而易見的， 就是在這些情境之下，

anxiety-producing situations

製造焦慮的情境，

can create anger and frustration,

很容易帶來憤怒和挫折，

especially for those who have been affected by violence or injustice.

尤其是對於那些受到 暴力與不公義所影響的人。

Can you can you talk more about that flow from anger and frustration to anxiety?

可多聊聊從憤怒、挫折 到焦慮的過程嗎？

VPG: Violence, frustration is, these days,

維拉莉：暴力、挫折是最近

far too familiar to many of us.

我們再熟悉不過的事情了。

When we think about all that has come out of George Floyd,

我們會立即聯想到 喬治 · 弗洛伊德，

we think about the continuing challenges that women face in the workplace,

也會想到女性在職場上 不斷面臨的挑戰，

we think about the trans community,

想到跨性別族群，

and what they're dealing with in terms of athletes and athleticism

他們如何面對運動賽事的問題，

and whether or not they're considered truly part of a sport,

他們是否能夠被接受參與運動賽事？

particularly in women's sports --

尤其是女性的運動。

there are so many different identities that are being challenged right now.

有這麼多的不同的身份認同， 現在已經變得很複雜了。

And what we find in our research

我們在研究中所發現，

is that there's a natural flow from anxiety, stress,

焦慮與壓力有一項自然的傾向，

questioning whether, "Is it something about me?"

藉由質問：「和我有關嗎？」

"What is it about my group?"

「和我的群體有關嗎？」

to the shift in understanding that society is seeing and treating you differently,

進而轉變想法，認定群體 看待你、對待你的方式不一樣，

and that causes anger, and that causes frustration.

這就會引起憤怒、產生挫折。

The problem with this is, at the physiological level,

隨之而來的則是生理層面的問題，

it's still stress,

但仍然是壓力。

and stress is debilitating.

壓力讓人衰弱，

It keeps us up at night.

讓人晚上睡不著覺，

It keeps us overeating.

讓人過度進食，

It keeps us undereating.

讓人厭食，

You look at the early onset of cardiovascular disease.

看看心血管疾病的早期症狀，

The problem is, stress is debilitating.

問題其實就是壓力讓人衰弱。

So even though those moments of anger

所以即便是在憤怒的時候，

may even make you feel like you can do something,

甚至覺得好像還可以做些什麼事，

you feel empowered as a group,

覺得在群體裡，好像還能掌握些什麼，

it still can erode our health.

壓力仍然可以侵蝕危害你的健康。

And so when I think about inclusive societies,

所以當我想到具有包容力的群體，

I think about it from a justice perspective.

我是從公義的角度來看，

I also think about it from a health perspective,

也從健康的角度來認定，

because it's all linked together.

因為這全都是連結在一起的。

CSB: Absolutely. Yeah.

克洛伊：沒錯。是的！

We have another question from the audience. Let's bring that up.

還有一個觀眾的問題。 讓我們來看看。

From Facebook: "Is it possible to use anxiety in a positive way?"

來自臉書： 焦慮是否有正面的利用價值？

VPG: It is absolutely a good idea.

維拉莉：這確是個很好的想法。

And when you understand that you can leverage the power of anxiety

當你知道可以正面的方式 利用焦慮的力量，

in a positive way,

you can do a lot of different things.

你就會有很多不一樣的處理方式。

So, for instance, there's a relationship between anxiety and performance.

舉例來說，焦慮和工作效能間相關。

There's lots of research on this.

這已經有很多相關的研究了，

It's sort of an old idea.

是早期就有的概念。

And the idea is that some anxiety is good.

這概念是說，有些焦慮是有益的。

My doctoral advisor, Claude Steele,

我的博士班導師，勞德‧史提爾，

after giving thousands of talks and writing books, I would ask him,

辦過上千場演講， 有許多著作，我問他：

"Do you still get anxious on the first day of class?"

「學期的第一天上課，你還會焦慮嗎？」

And he said to me, "Valerie, when you stop being nervous the first day of class,

他回答：「維拉莉， 如果第一天上課你不再緊張的話，

it's time to retire."

就該退休了。」

CSB: (Laughs)

克洛伊：(笑聲)

VPG: Because that's a good kind of anxiety, right?

維拉莉：這是好的那種焦慮，對吧？

But the problem is, that anxiety can also shift to being debilitated,

但是問題是，這種焦慮 也可能轉而使人衰弱，

where you're just stressed, you start to feel frazzled,

到時候你將會受壓力困頓， 開始覺得疲憊不堪，

you start to feel like your brain isn't working properly.

腦袋無法正常運作。

And so some anxiety is good.

有些焦慮是有益處的。

It's sort of like the sweet spot of anxiety.

有點像是焦慮比較可愛的那一面。

And then if you keep going, it can become debilitating and erode performance.

但是如果不斷持續焦慮，焦慮就會 使人衰弱，也會侵蝕工作效能。

So it's the back-and-forth between some is good, too much is bad,

像是在適度則好而過量則劣 兩者之間來回，

that we need to be thinking about,

因此我們需要考量兩者之間的平衡，

both as ourselves as individuals

從我們自己

and also when we're part of organizations.

以及從群體一份子的立場來考量皆然。

CSB: We have a new question from the audience.

克洛伊：我們還有一個觀眾的問題。

Let's bring that one up, please.

請讓我們一起來看看。

Thank you.

謝謝。

OK, Kristin Sánchez Salas from LinkedIn says,

好 ，領英 (LinkedIn) 的克莉絲汀問：

"What can you do if your context-based anxiety is provoked by a colleague,

「如果情境焦慮是同事、 客戶、上級長官

client, superior or someone you work with regularly?”

或工作上常常會遇見的人 刻意引起的，該怎麼辦？」

VPG: My strategy is: first time, forgiveness.

維拉莉：我的處理方式是： 第一次，原諒他。

Sometimes, fact-checking:

經常如此，就該檢驗事實根據：

What is it that you actually heard? What is it that someone said?

你聽到的到底是什麼事？ 別人又是怎麼說的？

Trying to understand someone's intentions,

試著了解別人的意圖，

that's, I think, the first step.

我想，這是第一步。

The second step is,

第二步則是，

this is something that is not going to be tolerated,

判斷這是不是無法容忍的事情，

because it impacts your ability to thrive,

是否影響你發展的能力，

and it impacts other people who are members of their group.

是否影響其他群體裡的成員？

So this becomes a manager issue.

這會變成經理人的問題，

This becomes a leadership issue.

變成領導能力的問題。

And true inclusive leadership is taking a stand and saying "We're not doing this,"

真正有包容力的領導人會表明態度， 說：「我們拒絕霸凌。」

and then setting the groundwork so it doesn't happen again.

設定界線，避免再次發生

CSB: Yeah, that's really great advice.

克洛伊：是的，這真的是很好的建議。

But we're almost at the end,

但是我們差不多接近尾聲了，

so I'm just going to ask you one final question leading from that, which is:

所以，我要來問你最後一個問題，

If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety,

如果你聽說你是造成情境焦慮的來源，

what's the first thing you should do?

首先該怎麼辦？

VPG: If you're told that you are the cause of context-based anxiety,

維拉莉：如果你被告知 你是造成情境焦慮的原因，

remember my face: it's not you,

請記得我的臉：問題不在於你，

it's the situation that you are in.

問題在於你所處的情況。

Trust your judgment,

相信你的判斷，

particularly if you have experienced solo status once,

尤其是，如果你經歷過 群體中的唯一特立身份，

you've experienced it again.

你會再次經歷到類似的情況。

If you've been stereotyped once,

如果你曾經受到刻板印象看待，

you've probably had this experience

你可能會再次經歷，

over and over.

一而再，再而三。

So trust your intuition that it's not you bringing paranoia to the workplace,

所以相信你的直覺， 不是你把偏執帶到工作場所，

that these kind of stereotypes and otherisms are rife and alive.

這種刻板印象和排外主義 一直都會存在，

I think that's the first thing.

我認為這是首先要做的事。

And then the second thing is having these layers of support

其次就是要有支持的夥伴，

around mentors and sponsors,

要有引導、支持你的人

who can tell you that you are doing just fine,

告訴你做得很好、很棒，

there's something amiss in this environment.

但是環境裡出了一點狀況。

That layer of support is incredibly important.

支持的夥伴是非常重要的，

It's important for everyone.

對每個人都很重要。

But if you're a member of a social group

但是如果你是群體中的一員，

that contends with these kinds of challenges in society,

且必須應對群體裡的這種挑戰，

that layer of support that you can go after

那麼有你能夠追隨、支持你的夥伴，

in terms of creating robust social networks,

也就是穩健的社會網絡，

that is a key.

正是關鍵。

CSB: This has been so valuable, Valerie.

克洛伊：這真的是很寶貴的意見，維拉莉。

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me.

非常感謝你 和我一起來聊這個話題

VPG: Thank you so much.

維拉莉：非常感謝你。