Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoski: The cure for burnout (hint: it isn't self-care) | TED

Transcriber:

翻译人员: 新 陈 校对人员: Helen Chang

[How to Deal with Difficult Feelings]

【如何应对艰难心绪】

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, TED community.

TED社区的朋友们，你们好！

You are watching a TED Interview series

你正在收看的是TED访谈系列之

called "How to Deal with Difficult Feelings."

“如何应对艰难心绪”。

I'm your host, Cloe Shasha Brooks, and a curator at TED.

我是主持人也是TED系列节目策划人， 克洛伊·莎莎·布鲁克斯。

Today, we'll be focusing specifically on burnout,

今天的这期节目会聚焦倦怠情绪，

both personal and professional,

涉及个人倦怠和职业倦怠两个方面。

with the help of two experts,

我们邀请到两位专家，

Dr. Emily Nagoski and Dr. Amelia Nagoski.

艾米莉·尼戈斯基博士 和阿米莉亚·尼戈斯基博士。

They are identical twin sisters

她们是孪生姐妹，

and the coauthors of a book about burnout,

合著过一本有关倦怠的书，

for everyone who is overwhelmed and exhausted by all they have to do,

写作对象是那些被必须要做的事 弄得精疲力竭，不知所措的人，

who is nevertheless worried that they're not doing enough.

那些尽管如此却依然担心 自己做的不够多的人。

Let's dive right in.

让我们直接进入正题吧。

You coauthored a book called "Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle."

你们合著过一本书， 叫做《倦怠：解开压力环的秘密》

And the inspiration for this book was actually based on

而这本书的灵感实际上来源于

a personal experience that you had with burnout, Amelia.

阿米莉亚你自己过去的一段倦怠经历。

Can you tell us more about that experience?

你能和我们讲讲那次经历吗？

Amelia Nagoski: Well, it began with me going to school

阿米莉亚·尼戈斯基：好。開始是

我即将要获得指挥音乐博士学位，

while I was getting my doctorate in musical arts in conducting.

I ended up in the hospital, and I had abdominal pain,

结果我却因腹部疼痛进了医院，

which they diagnosed as stress induced,

医生诊断是压力导致的，

told me to go home and relax.

让我回家，放松自己。

And in fact, I had no idea what to do.

而事实上，我不知道该做什么。

But luckily, I have a sister who has a PhD in health behavior.

但幸运的是，我的姐姐艾米莉 是健康行为研究方面的博士。

So when I'm in the hospital, just in pain, laying there,

当时我躺在医院的床上，腹部疼痛，

not even really understanding how I got there or why.

连我怎么到的医院和为什么 到了医院都不知道。

And I honestly didn't even believe

而且，老实讲，我那时甚至都不相信，

that stress could cause physiological symptoms.

压力会引起生理上的症状。

And Emily said, "How did you not know that?"

艾米莉就说， 你怎么能连这都不知道呢？

I'm a conductor and a singer.

我是个乐团指挥，也是个歌手。

I have learned in my musical training to express my feelings with my body,

我在接受音乐训练时 学会了运用身体去表达情感。

to use my body as a vehicle for expressing emotion.

让身体成为表达情感的载体。

And it occurred to me

我曾意识到，

that if it was true that I didn't just have those feelings onstage --

如果这些情绪不仅仅是 在我舞台表演时存在，

I had them all the time, my whole life --

而是会在每时每刻， 乃至我的一生之中都伴随着我，

and if that was true, wow, that was a lot of feelings.

那样的话，天啊， 那情绪未免也太多了吧。

So I didn't even want to believe this was true.

所以我不愿意相信这是真的。

But once Emily brought me a huge stack of peer-reviewed science,

但是，有一次，艾米莉给我看了一大摞 经过同行评审过的相关科学研究资料，

I couldn't deny anymore, yes, stress manifests in the body

我只能承认，是的， 压力会通过身体表现出来，

and can turn into symptoms of illness.

会表现为各种疾病症状。

CSB: So, OK, well, let's start with some definitions.

好吧。我们先谈谈倦怠的定义吧。

What are the three components of burnout?

倦怠三要素是什么？

Emily Nagoski: So, according to the original technical definition

艾米莉·尼戈斯基：

from Herbert Freudenberger in the 1970s,

依照20世纪70年代赫尔伯特·弗兰伯格 对这一术语的原始定义，

burnout, which originally was inclusive only of the workplace

倦怠这个词 起初只用来指代职业倦怠。

but has expanded now,

现在，它的含义拓展了。

involves depersonalization,

包括了人格解体，

where you separate yourself emotionally from your work

也就是你对你的工作 存在着情感上的疏离，

instead of investing yourself and feeling like it's meaningful;

而不是完全投入进去 并觉得它很有意义；

decreased sense of accomplishment,

自我成就感减低，

where you just keep working harder and harder for less and less sense

也就是尽管你更加努力工作，

that what you are doing is making any difference;

你却越来越难感觉到 你做的事情有意义；

and emotional exhaustion.

还包括情感枯竭。

And while everyone experiences all three of these factors,

虽然从弗兰伯格首次提出 这一表述到现在40年来，

over the 40 years since this original formulation,

以上三种情况人们普遍都会经历，

it turns out that, broadly speaking,

但事实上，一般说来，

for men, burnout tends to manifest as depersonalization in particular.

倦怠在男性身上尤其表现为人格解体。

And for women, burnout tends to manifest as emotional exhaustion.

女性则表现为情绪倦怠。

So anyone can experience burnout,

因此，虽然任何人都有可能感到倦怠。

But your specific way of experiencing it is probably going to be different,

但每个人的具体体验可能有所不同，

depending on who you are.

这取决于你是哪种类型的人。

AN: And the factors that lead to burnout are not just professional ones.

阿米莉亚：倦怠 不一定仅仅是职业倦怠。

They are parenting and social activism

养育子女和社会活动，

and anything where you need to care and invest,

以及其他任何需要你关心 和投入的事物都会引发你的倦怠。

where there are ongoing demands

总是有需求要去满足，

that are unmeetable expectations

总是有期望无法实现，

and unceasing demands.

需求不断。

That is the formula, no matter what context it's in, for burnout.

无论是哪种情况， 倦怠的基本情形都是如此。

CSB: Your work is around the stress cycle and how we can complete it.

克洛伊：你们主要研究压力环 以及我们是怎么完成闭环的。

So, will you talk a little bit about that?

你们能谈谈这个吗？

EN: Oh, yes! This is my favorite part.

艾米莉：当然可以！ 这是我最喜欢的部分。

So, the main thing people need to begin with

人们首先要做到，

is that there is a difference between your stressors,

了解自己的压力源，

the things that cause your stress,

也就是导致压力的因素，

which is what Amelia was talking about --

像阿米莉亚所说的，

the unmeetable goals and expectations,

无法实现的目标以及期望，

your family issues and money ...

你的家庭事务以及财务状况等等。

Those are your stressors.

这些都是你的压力源。

And then there's your stress,

以及压力本身，

which is the physiological thing that happens in your body

也就是你身体内的正做出的

in response to any perceived threat.

应对你所认为的威胁的反应， 这两者之间的差别。

And it's largely the same no matter what the threat is.

不管威胁是什么， 反应基本没有多少区别。

And evolutionarily,

从进化的角度来看，

we know the threat response as being the fight, flight, freeze response

人类面对威胁有战斗， 逃跑和呆住三种反应，

intended to help us run away from a lion.

帮助我们狮口逃生。

So when you're being chased by a lion across the savanna of Africa,

当你在非洲稀树草原上 被狮子穷追不舍时，

what do you do?

你会怎么做？

You run, right?

你肯定会逃跑，不是吗？

So you use all this energy that happens in your body,

你会充分运用你身体内产生的能量，

all this adrenaline and cortisol,

所有的肾上腺素、皮质醇这些，

every body system has been activated

你身体内的每个系统都被调动起来，

to help with this escape from the perceived threat --

你的消化系统、免疫系统 以及你的激素，

your digestion and your immune system and your hormones.

帮助你逃离你认为存在的威胁。

Everything is focused on this one goal, including your cognition.

包括你的认知能力 都专注于一个目标。

Your problem-solving is focused just on this one problem,

你解决问题的能力 只聚焦于这一个问题，

and it will not let go, because your life is at stake.

它不会分散到其他事情上， 因为你的生命正处于危险之中。

But you manage to get back to your village,

但是当你安全回到你的村子，

and the lion gives up,

狮子也停止了追捕，

and you jump up and down and shout,

你欢呼雀跃，

and people come and listen to you tell the story,

村子里的人们都来听你讲发生了什么，

and you hug each other,

你们互相拥抱，

and the sun seems to shine brighter.

阳光也似乎更加耀眼，

And that is the complete stress response cycle:

一个压力应对环就完成了：

it has a beginning, when you perceive the threat;

开始时，你识别出了存在的威胁；

a middle, where you do something with your body;

中间阶段，你的身体做出某种反应；

and an end, where your body receives the signal

结束时，你的身体接收到信号：

that it has escaped from this potential threat,

它已经逃离潜在威胁，

and your body is now a safe place for you to be.

现在它安全了。

Alas, we live in a world

唉，可是当今世界，

where the behaviors that deal with our stressors

如何应对压力源，

are no longer the behaviors that deal with the stress in our bodies.

和如何应对体内的压力反应 不再是一回事。

We are almost never chased by lions.

我们现在几乎不会被狮子追捕。

Instead, our stressors are "The," capital T, capital F, "Future,"

我们的压力源变成了“未来”，

or our children,

或是我们的孩子，

or a commute is, like, the classic example.

或是，举个典型的例子，通勤。

When people have commutes,

通勤，

it's one of the most stressful parts of their lives,

是人们生活中压力最大的情景之一，

and your body activates

和你在被狮子追逐时一样，

the same adrenaline and cortisol and digestion and immune system,

你的身体激活了肾上腺素和皮质醇 以及消化和免疫系统，

and you finally get home, right?

最后你终于到家了。

You have dealt with your stressor.

你已经处理了你的压力源。

Do you suddenly jump up and down

你会突然雀跃，

and feel grateful to be alive,

庆幸自己还活着，

and the sun seems to shine brighter?

并且觉得阳光也似乎明亮起来了吗？

No, because you've dealt with the stressor,

不会，原因是，你处理了压力源，

but that does not mean that you've dealt with the stress itself.

但这并不意味着 你处理了压力本身。

This is excellent news, because it means that you don't have to wait

这是个好消息，因为这意味着

你不必等你的压力源消失后 才能开始感觉好些，

for your stressor to be gone before you can begin to feel better,

because you can deal with the stress while the stressor still exists.

因为，即使压力源仍然存在， 你还是可以去处理压力。

Good thing, because most of our stressors are what are called "chronic stressors,"

这是好事情，因为我们的大多数压力源 都是所谓的 “长期性压力源“。

that are there day after day, week after week, year after year.

它们始终伴随着我们，日复一日， 周复一周，年复一年。

And I hope people are like, "OK, so how do I complete the stress response cycle?"

我知道人们这时会问，

“好吧，那么我怎么才能 完成压力反应闭环呢？”

And we have a list of, like, a dozen concrete, specific, evidence-based ways

我们列出了一个清单，里面有一些 实际的，具体的，有证据支撑的方法

to help people deal with the stress response cycle.

来帮助人们应对压力反应闭环。

But just taking the example of a commute:

我们这里就以通勤为例：

you get out of your car or you get off the bus,

你从轿车里出来， 或是从公共汽车上下来。

and your shoulders are trying to be your earrings,

你的肩膀紧绷得 都快成为你的耳环了，

and you're grumpy and cranky

你的脾气也变得暴躁古怪，

and still thinking about the jerk who did I don't know what.

脑子里还在想着某个混蛋 做的某些事情。

And what you do is jumping jacks in your driveway,

你要做的是 在你的私人车道上做开合跳，

or you go for a long walk around the block

或者绕着街区里走很远的路，

or you just tense every muscle in your body,

或者仅仅是站在你的公寓门口，

standing outside your apartment door,

绷紧身体的每一块肌肉，

holding your breath, tense, tense, tense for a slow count of 10.

屏住呼吸，慢数10下， 绷紧，绷紧，绷紧。

Even just that little bit of using your body

仅仅是利用你的身体那么一会儿，

is what communicates to your body

就可以你的身体传达这样一个信号：

that your body is now a safe place for you to be.

你的身体现在安全了。

You have to separate dealing with the stress

你必须把处理压力

from dealing with the thing that caused the stress.

和处理压力源两者区别开来。

AN: And this need to deal with the stress

阿米莉亚：你需要分开处理

in a separate process from dealing with the things that cause your stress

压力和压力源，

is why the doctor is telling me to relax

这也就解释了为什么 医生给我的那个放松自己的建议

was not going to be an effective means of recovering from burnout.

不会有效地帮助我 从倦怠中恢复。

I had to deal with the stress in my body.

我必须处理我身体里的压力。

And if, let's say, you get out of your car,

我们这么说吧， 如果你从你的轿车里出来，

and instead of doing jumping jacks, you just say,

不是做开合跳，而是对自己说，

"OK, I'm going to relax now. Relax now. You, relax!"

“好了，现在我要放松了。 现在放松。你，放松！”

Not effective, right?

并不管用，不是吗？

You've relaxed, but you haven't changed your body's physiological state

你放松下来了， 但是你身体的生理状态并没有

into one of safety.

调整到一个安全的状态。

CSB: Totally.

克洛伊：确实如此。

And our first question from the audience.

现在我们来看一下观众提出的问题，

OK, from Facebook, someone asks,

第一个问题来自脸书网友，有人问道，

"How do you know whether what you're experiencing is burnout

“怎么确定自己正在经历的是倦怠

or something else?”

而不是其他的情绪呢？”

EN: Yeah, ask a medical professional for sure.

艾米莉：嗯， 这个你得向专业医疗人士确认。

And there's a lot of overlap between burnout and lots of other experiences,

倦怠和许多其他的情绪体验 有很多共同之处，

including depression and anxiety and grief

包括抑郁、焦虑和悲痛，

and rage and repressed rage -- we've all got it.

以及愤怒和压抑着的愤怒—— 我们都有这种情况。

So our layperson's definition of burnout is, as you said,

我们外行人认为倦怠是， 正如你所说的，

that feeling of being overwhelmed

一种被压垮的感觉，

and exhausted by everything you have to do,

被你所必要做的事情弄得精疲力竭，

while still worrying that you're not doing enough.

却还在担心自己做的不够多。

CSB: Mm hmm.

克洛伊：嗯嗯。

EN: If you feel like you are struggling even to get out of bed

艾米莉：如果你觉得 你从床上起来，做些基本的事

and get the basics done,

都有困难的话，

that goes beyond burnout.

那就远超过倦怠了。

Burnout is where you can show up for work,

倦怠是你能去工作，

but you spend your whole day fantasizing about being at a different job.

但你一整天幻想着 自己做的是另一份工作。

AN: It's important to know that "burnout" is not a medical diagnosis,

阿米莉亚：知道倦怠不是医学上 做出的诊断这很重要，

it's not a mental illness.

它不是心理疾病。

It's a condition related to overwhelming stress.

它是由巨大压力引起得一种状况。

So it's not like it puts you in this different state

它并不是使你处于一种不同的状态，

where you're going to be trapped,

而你深陷其中，

and you have to have 13 years of therapy and whatever.

必须接受 为期13年的治疗什么的。

It just means that you need to be completing your stress response cycles.

它只是意味着，你需要完成 你的压力反应闭环。

CSB: Work burnout is just such an important thing to talk about,

克洛伊：我觉得，对很多人来说，

职业倦怠是一个重要的话题，

I think, for so many,

and I'm curious if we can focus on that for a moment.

我们是否可以就这点讨论一下呢？

Like, what are some of the earliest warning signs of professional burnout?

例如，职业倦怠 起始阶段的警告信号有哪些呢？

AN: Let's say there's two kinds of people.

阿米莉亚：这样说吧，分两种人。

There's Emily people,

一种是像艾米莉一样的人，

who are aware of what's going on in their bodies at all times.

他们清楚地知道 他们的身体正在经历着什么。

And if they have signs of burnout,

如果他们出现了倦怠的迹象，

they notice it just right away because that's how they do.

他们就会马上注意到它， 因为他们这类人就是这样的。

And then there's people like me,

还有像我这种的，

who never know what their body is experiencing.

压根不知道身体正在经历着什么。

I didn't notice I was burning out until I was literally in the emergency room.

我压根没有留意到我正在经历倦怠， 直到我确确实实深处急救室。

But one of the things that causes burnout

导致倦怠的因素之一

is our inability to recognize the hard stuff welling up inside us.

是我们不能注意到 我们体内逐渐累积的情感。

And the solution is to be able to turn toward the difficult feelings

解决之道是， 怀着善意和同理心去面对它们

with kindness and compassion and say,

对自己说，

"Oh, I feel stressed. I feel unreasonably angry right now. I'm so cranky.

我现在感觉很有压力， 很生气，我脾气暴躁，

I wonder why that is,"

我想知道为什么会这样，

and instead of just trying to, like, tell yourself to relax,

而不是试图告诉自己去放松什么的，

ask that feeling, "Why are you there? What do you need from me?

问问自己当时的感觉：

“你为什么会来到这儿呢？ 你需要我做什么呢？

What has to change?"

我需要做出什么改变吗？“

EN: One of the primary barriers to listening to your body

艾米莉：阻碍我们聆听身体所释放的 讯号的主要因素之一就是

is a fear of the uncomfortable feelings that are happening in your body.

那些在你身体内的不舒服的感觉。

One of the things I say over and over, we say it over and over in "Burnout,"

在《倦怠》那本书里， 我，我们经常说，

is that feelings are tunnels.

情绪是隧道，

you have to go through the darkness to get to the light at the end, right?

你得穿过黑暗 才能到达明亮的那端，不是吗？

Feelings are tunnels. Stress is a tunnel.

情绪就是一个隧道。 压力就是一个隧道。

You've got to work all the way through it.

你需要努力走出来，

Not that the stress is bad for you,

压力对你来说并不是件坏事，

it's getting stuck in the middle that is bad for you,

困在中间则对你有害。

never having an opportunity to take your body through the cycle.

使你无法让身体走出压力环。

One of the reasons why people don't do that

人们无法做到，原因之一

is because they feel afraid

是因为他们恐惧，

of their uncomfortable internal experiences.

那些不舒服的内在体验，

When I first started learning this stuff explicitly --

当我第一次开始明确地学习这些东西--

we grew up in a family where uncomfortable feelings were not allowed,

我们是在一个不允许 有不舒服的感觉的家庭里长大的，

and the idea that feelings were tunnels,

对于“感觉是一种隧道“这一看法。

I was just like, "I don't think that's true.

我当时这么想， “我不认为那是真的。

I'm pretty sure that uncomfortable feelings are caves with bats and rats

我非常确定， 不舒服的感受就像是山洞，

那里有蝙蝠、老鼠、蛇， 还流淌着一条有毒的河。

and snakes and a river of poison.

And if I begin to experience my uncomfortable feelings,

如果我开始体验不舒服的感觉，

I will be trapped forever in the dark with the rats and the bats."

我将永远被困在黑暗中， 与老鼠和蝙蝠为伍。”

I began a practice of noticing when my body was experiencing a sensation,

我开始练习，留意 我的身体正在经历的感觉，

allowing it to be and allowing it to move all the way through.

允许它存在并允许它自己 穿过这个隧道。

And as I practiced that with gentle emotions,

我开始能够尝试这样处理激烈的情绪，

I began to be able to practice it with more and more intense emotions,

无论它是积极的还是消极的情绪，

both positive and negative, intense emotions.

就像我起初处理 稍微和缓一些的情绪那样。

So that now when I'm confronted with big, difficult stuff,

因此，现在当我面临着 深重艰难的情绪时，

I trust that my body will go all the way through the feelings

我相信，我的身体会处理好这些感受，

without me being trapped in the dark with predators.

而不会被困于在黑暗中， 和那些掠夺者相对。

AN: And I started doing it 20 years after Emily did, but it's never too late,

阿米莉亚：在艾米丽这样做 20年之后，我才开始这样做的，

但只要你开始做，就不会太晚，

you can always recover.

你总是有机会可以恢复过来。

CSB: Let's bring up another audience question.

我们来看看另一位观众的提问。

"How can you talk to your manager or supervisor

你该怎么和你的主管或者上级说，

about the fact that you're experiencing burnout and get real support?"

你正在经历倦怠情绪， 并且得到他们真正的支持呢？

A question from Facebook.

问题来自脸书的一位网友。

EN: If you're in a workplace

如果你身处一个

where you don't feel like you can say to your boss,

你觉得无法向上司表明 这一状况的工作环境，

"My mammalian body is having mammalian needs,

“我的哺乳动物的身体 有着哺乳动物的需求’。

and I need to adjust my work situation

我需要换个工作环境

to accommodate the fact that I live in a monkey suit,"

以适应我有着哺乳动物的需求 这一事实，”

know that we consult all the time with gigantic corporations

我们一直为一些大公司做咨询。

that are making active efforts

它们正在做出积极努力，

to incorporate acknowledging people's emotional and physical needs,

将承认人们的情感 和生理需求纳入企业文化，

checking in at every meeting, saying, "Where are you at?",

在每次会议上询问他们。 说 “你现在感觉怎么样？“。

asking people to become aware of and more clear in expressing

要求人们意识到并更清楚地表达

how they feel

他们的感受，

and promoting the idea that managers should be ready to cope

并宣传这一观念，即： 管理者应做好准备以应对

when their supervisee comes in and has a bunch of feelings

他们的下级带着

需要处理并最终解决的一堆情绪 来找他们这一状况。

that they need to process and move through.

So it exists. People are working on it. I feel optimistic.

所以它是存在的。

人们正在努力解决这个问题。 我对此持乐观态度。

And I also know that there's a lot of workplaces

而且我也知道有很多工作场所，

that are trapped in this sort of, like, industrial,

完全被工业思维模式， 极端父权思维模式，

super patriarchal, rabidly individualistic mindset,

狂热个人主义思维模式影响。

where you just need to protect yourself against the toxic culture

这种情况下，为了保护自己 免受有毒的公司文化侵害，

by creating a bubble of love at home,

你要在家营造一个有爱的小环境，

where everyone in your household cares for your well-being

在这个环境里，你的家人 像你关心他们的健康一样，

as much as you care for theirs.

关心你的健康。

CSB: How can people who feel truly stuck

克洛伊：陷入倦怠情绪的人 要想重获健康，

take a first step towards wellness?

第一步应该怎么做呢？

And how do you define wellness, too?

另外，你们对健康的定义是什么呢？

AN: We define wellness as:

阿米莉亚：我们将健康定义为

the freedom to oscillate through all the cycles of being human

有着身为人类情绪波动的自由，

from effort to rest, from autonomy to connection ...

努力或休息，自立或联结...

And we always say that the cure for burnout is not self-care,

我们经常讲，倦怠的解决方法 不是自我关爱，

cannot be self-care.

不可能是自我关爱。

How can you be expected to "self-care" your way out of burnout?

你怎么通过自我关爱摆脱倦怠呢？

You can't.

你不能。

What you need is a bubble of love around you,

你需要的是一个有爱的小环境，

people who care about your well-being as much as you care about theirs,

人们关心你过得好不好， 和你关心他们一样，

who will turn toward you and say, "You need a break.

他们会转向你，对你说： ”你需要摆脱出困境，

I'm going to help you with this. I'm going to step in in that way,"

我会帮助你，我会参与进来，

or even just give you 15 minutes

或者仅仅是给你15分钟，

for you to yell about whatever the problems you feel at that moment

让你倾诉你当下感觉到的问题，

and just be on your side and go, "Yeah!

站在你的一边，跟你说：

”我不敢相信你竟然遭遇了那些！ 我站在你一边。“ 就15分钟。

I can't believe that happened to you! I'm so on your side," for 15 minutes.

Just that can give you enough of a release

仅仅是那样都会让你放松许多，

to feel a little bit better to take one more step.

让你觉得可以更好地往前走。

The cure for burnout is not self-care.

倦怠情绪地解药不是自我关爱。

It is all of us caring for each other.

而是我们大家互相关爱。

We can't do it alone. We need each other.

仅凭一己之力是无法做到的。 我们需要彼此。

EN: Making that happen in real life is, of course, easier said than done.

艾米莉：当然，说起来容易， 在现实生活中能真正做到却很难。

And one of the things that is my little reminder to myself

我给自己地一个小提示是

is that when I feel like I need more grit,

当我觉得我需要更多毅力的时候，

what I actually need is more help.

我其实真正需要地是更多的帮助。

And when I look at Amelia's life, and I think,

当我观察阿米莉亚的生活，觉得：

”她需要更加自律，

"She needs more discipline,

需要多一些坚持，需要再努力一些，“

she needs more perseverance, she needs to work harder,"

what she actually needs is more kindness.

而她实际上需要的 是别人给予她更多的善意。

That's the baseline culture change that’s going to end burnout forever.

只有基本的社会文化的转变， 才能永远地解决倦怠问题。

AN: And usually the next question people ask us is,

阿米莉亚：人们通常会接着问我们，

"I don't have anyone like that in my life.

“我的周围没有那些理解我的人，

I am the leader, I am the one who's doing all of the things."

我是领导，我是那个做所有工作的人。”

And the solution for that is probably closer than you think.

解决方法其实也没有你想象的那么难。

I mean, I grew up in a household where feelings were, like, not allowed

我自己就是在一个不允许 表达情感的家庭长大的，

and we were not close our whole lives.

我们彼此之间一直都不是很亲密。

And then we started reading the research

然后我们看到了这样一个研究，

that said that connection and sharing support was the way out of burnout.

说联结和相互支持为倦怠情绪 提供了解决之道。

And we started trying,

于是我们就开始试着这样做，

and we, like, broke down this 30-year barrier of, you know,

我们冲破了长达三十年的阻碍，

societal and family pressure not to, like, feel our feelings around each other.

来自社会和家庭的阻碍，

And it turns out that if you feel like you're isolated,

事实证明，如果你觉得自己很孤独，

there's probably someone on the other side of that wall, it turns out,

很可能在墙的那边 ，

who wants just as much as you to connect with someone else.

有人和你一样想要联结。

And we've been isolated

我们保持孤立的状态，

because we've been told that it's stronger to be independent.

因为人们告诉我们， 独立会显得你更加强大。

It's not true.

不是这样的。

We're going to be healthier and stronger when we work together.

当我们齐心协力时， 我们才会变的更加健康、更加强大。

There's probably someone already waiting

很可能已经有人在等待，

who also wants the kind of relationship that you are desiring.

和你一样渴望着这样的友善关系。

CSB: I think that's just so nice to hear, too, in the pandemic,

克洛伊：听到这些真的很好， 在疫情期间，

我们每个人都感觉孤立无援。

when we're all feeling so isolated.

最后一个来自观众的问题，

We have one final question we'd like to bring up from the audience,

that we'll have to keep brief.

我们需要长话短说。

So let's bring that up.

一起来看这个问题。

OK. "What can you do about burnout

如果你是一名教师，

if you are a teacher, where every day is filled with stressors?

每天都面对许许多多的压力源， 你可以做些什么来应对倦怠情绪呢？

AN: I taught school for five years. That's how long I made it.

阿米莉亚：我教过五年书。 是的，我坚持了那么长时间。

I burned out after four years and then I pushed through one more year.

我教完四年就陷入倦怠情绪， 然后我又坚持下来了一年。

If you have any possible means of reducing the everyday stressors

如果你有任何途径 参与学校的行政决策，

by getting involved in administrative decisions,

从而减少每天的压力源，

that's great, but that's almost never the case.

那很好。但事情并不总是这么简单。

The thing, number one, is to complete the stress response cycle.

首要的事情是完成压力应对闭环。

You can exercise if that works for you.

你可以运动， 如果那对你有用的话。

A good night's sleep will do it.

一晚上良好的睡眠也可以起到作用。

How do I get a good night's sleep when I have to get up at 5am?

当我必须在早上五点起床时， 我怎么睡一个好觉呢？

你得早点上床睡觉，

You have to go to bed earlier,

那意味着全家都能让你早点睡觉。

and that means your whole family has to give you permission

to go to bed earlier.

他们都要重视你的睡眠质量， 像你重视他们的一样。

They have to cherish your sleep the way you cherish theirs.

You can use your imagination

你可以发挥你的想象力，

and imagine yourself pummeling all of the stressors into the ground.

想象自己正用拳头 将所有的压力源捶进地下。

And you recover from that,

你从中得到缓解，

because your imagination doesn't know the difference

因为你的想象力并不知道

between pummeling the stressors in your imagination

在你的想象中捶打压力源，

和在现实中捶打压力源 这两者之间的差别。

versus pummeling them in real life.

And you surround yourself with a bubble of love,

同时，你可以让自己 身处一个有爱的环境中，

你的同事会给予你支持，并且告诉你， ”是的，你值得别人的关心。

other teachers who can support you and tell you, "Yes, you deserve care.

You are a valuable, educated, wonderful human being.

你是一个有价值、受过良好教育、 很优秀的人。

You are not just, you know, Darth Vader dealing with these kids.

你并不只是和一群孩子打交道的 西斯黑暗尊主达斯·维达。

You are a valuable person who deserves resources, who deserves care,

你还是一个有价值的人， 值得得到别人的帮助与关心，

who deserves love, who deserves freedom to oscillate."

值得被爱，有权利情绪波动。“

CSB: Thank you both so much for joining us together

克洛伊：非常感谢你们参与本期节目，

and for teaching us about burnout and the stress cycle.

让我们了解到关于倦怠情绪 和压力环的知识。

This has been really illuminating. So, thanks for your time.

很受启发。谢谢你们的分享。

EN: Thank you so much. AN: Thanks.

艾米莉：感谢你。阿米莉亚：谢谢。