The Secret to a Happy Life — Lessons from 8 Decades of Research | Robert Waldinger | TED

翻译人员: 1021 lysen 校对人员: sylvia feng

Hello, everybody,

大家好，

I am delighted to be here

很开心能在这里宣讲

and grateful to all of you

也对各位表示感谢

for joining us for this discussion.

感谢你们参与此次讨论。

In 2015,

在2015年，

I gave a TEDx Talk

我曾在一个小学礼堂

in a little elementary school auditorium,

做过一次TEDx的演讲，

and much to my surprise,

让我惊喜的是

the talk became one of the 10 most-viewed talks

这场演讲成为了TED历史上

in the history of TED.

浏览量最高的十次演讲之一。

And in that talk, I conveyed one simple scientific finding.

在那次演讲中， 我讲述了一个简单的科学发现。

The finding that when we study hundreds of people

这次发现的研究对象有数百人

over their entire adult lives,

我们对他们整个成年后 的人生进行了研究。

the people who turn out to be the happiest and the healthiest

发现最后最快乐， 最健康的那些人

are those who have good, warm connections to others.

往往和其他人有着良好 且热络的人际关系。

So today, I want to take you deeper into this whole subject,

所以今天，我想带你们 更深层次地探讨这个话题

by exploring how relationships matter in our lives,

我们会探讨人际关系 在我们生活中有多重要

how they affect our health,

他们如何影响我们的健康

what kinds of relationships give us this big benefit in happiness,

哪种人际关系能让我们 从快乐中受益

and which tools you can start using today to make your relationship stronger.

以及现在你能通过哪些方式 让你的人际关系更牢固

So I do direct this Harvard Study of Adult Development.

我是哈佛成人发展研究的负责人

It's, as far as we know, the longest study of the same people

此项研究从1938年起 就对同一批人进行追踪研究

that's ever been done, following people since 1938.

这是有史以来对同一人群进行 的时间最长的研究，

From adolescence all the way through old age,

从他们还是青年开始， 我们一直追踪研究到他们年迈

and now following all of their children,

现在还在继续追踪研究他们的子女

thousands of lives.

这期间有数以千计的研究对象

And we began to find,

而大约在三十年前

about 30 years ago,

我们也开始发现

this startling connection between warm relationships

热络的人际关系 和自己生活的美好程度

and how good our lives feel to us,

也就是和自己的 健康幸福，自己的福祉

our well-being,

有着惊人的关联

and also the fact that warm relationships seemed to keep people

同时我们也发现一个事实 那就是当人们变老时

both physically stronger and kept their brains sharper

热络的人际关系似乎不仅 能让他们身体更加强壮

as they grew older.

还能让大脑更敏锐

And we didn't believe the data at first.

起初我们还不相信这个数据

We thought, how could this be

我们当时认为

that relationships actually get into our bodies

人际关系怎么可能影响我们的身体

and shape our health?

左右我们的健康呢

But then other studies began to find the same thing.

不过之后其他研究 也得出了同样的结论

We found that people had less depression,

我们发现当人们和他人 有较好的人际关系时

they were less likely to get diabetes and heart disease,

他们患抑郁症的概率更低

that they recovered faster from illness

他们更不易患糖尿病以及心脏病

when they had better connections with other people.

并且他们痊愈的速度也会更快

So then the question is: How could this work?

所以现在问题是：这是怎样做到的

How do relationships shape our happiness and our physical health?

人际关系是如何影响我们 的快乐程度以及身体健康的呢

Well, one of the best theories,

在最能解释这一现象的理论中

for which there's now some pretty good evidence,

有一条具备了有力的证据支撑

is based on the idea of stress.

而这一条理论正是基于对压力的理解

That, as we know, stress is an inevitable part of all of our lives.

我们都知道我们的 人生不可避免压力的产生

Stress happens to us every day.

每天我们都会感到压力

And what we find is that good relationships

而我们的研究发现

turn out to be stress regulators.

良好的人际关系最后能管控压力

So let me give you an example.

让我来给你举个例子

Let's say that I have something upsetting happen to me during the day,

比方说有一天 发生了一件很不愉快的事情

and I find myself, like, ruminating about it

然后我发现自己会一个人不断地回想

and really thinking about it and unhappy.

去思考这件事 然后发现自己也变得不愉快

I can feel my body go into what we call fight or flight response

我就会发现自己 的身体进入了战逃反应

where literally my heart rate goes up

这种情况下我的心率将上升

and I might start sweating a little bit

我也可能会开始稍稍流汗

and I'm just not feeling as well.

总之就是自己感觉不太好

Now, what we're meant to do is to come back to equilibrium

现在，我们必须做的就是 在压力因素消散之后

when a stressor goes away.

让自己的情绪回到平静的状态

That's the way the body is supposed to work.

我们的身体理应如此运转

But what happens if I go home at the end of my upsetting day

但如果在这不愉快的一天里我回到 家后我能找到一个人倾诉

and I have somebody to talk to?

那又会发生什么呢

Either I can call someone on the phone or it's somebody I live with.

这个人可以在我电话的那头 也可以是和我同居的人

I can literally feel my body calm down.

我能实实在在感受到我 的身体在恢复平静

I can feel that fight or flight response subside.

我能感受到这种战逃反应的消失

But what if I don't have anybody to go home to?

但如果没有人能在家里听我倾诉呢

What if there's nobody I can call?

如果没有人能在电话那头听我倾诉呢

What we find is that people who are isolated, are lonely,

而我们的结果发现如果我们 不与人交往，生活得很孤单

don't have those stress regulators that we get from good relationships

我们就不能让健康的人际关系 来帮助我们管控这些压力

and that we stay in chronic fight or flight mode,

我们会长期处于战逃反应

that our bodies have this chronic stress,

我们的身体也会长期 处在这种压力之下

chronic levels of inflammation

会长期处在发炎的水平

and circulating stress hormones that wear away our happiness

并且压力激素还会在体内循环 降低人们的幸福感

and break down different body systems.

损害不同的身体系统

Well, what kinds of relationships seem essential to well-being?

那么哪种人际关系 对我们的幸福健康起重要作用呢

And this is interesting.

这个问题也十分有趣

We asked people

对本项目最早的一批参与者

who were our original participants in our study.

我们进行了询问

We asked them,

我们问道

Who could you call in the middle of the night if you were sick or scared?

在午夜，当你生病 或者你感到害怕的时候，

你会打谁的电话

And many of our people could list several other people they could call

很多参与者都列出好几个人

if they were in trouble.

表示自己如果遇到麻烦 可以给他们打电话

Some people couldn't list anyone.

但是有些人却表示

There wasn't a person on the planet who they could turn to

就算他们生病或者感到害怕

if they were sick or scared.

他们也找不到一个人打电话的人

And what we find is that having at least one person in your life

结果表明，一个人在一生中

who you feel really has your back,

至少要有一个人在背后挺你

who you could go to if you were in trouble,

或者在你陷入麻烦事能帮助你

that's essential for maintaining our happiness and our health.

这对维持我们的健康幸福非常重要

When we asked these same people,

我们还问了这同一批人

when they got to be in their 80s,

八十多岁之后

to look back on their lives

回望人生

and to tell us what they were proudest of,

你们最骄傲的是什么呢

almost everybody said something about their relationships.

几乎所有人的答案 都和他们的人际关系有关

They didn't say, "I made a lot of money"

他们没有说：“我挣了好多好多钱”

or "I won some big awards."

或者是“我得了哪些大奖”

They said,

他们只是回答道

"I was a good mentor,"

“我是个好导师”

"I was a good friend,"

“我是个好朋友”

"I raised healthy kids,"

“我把我的孩子养的很健康”

"I was a good partner."

“我是个好伴侣”

And so what we find

我们发现

is that what seems to mean the most to people

当人们走到生命尽头处

when they get to the end of their lives

对他们而言最重要的

is the strength and the warmth of their connections to others.

是不同人际关系带来的力量和温暖

So then the question comes up, well,

那么现在问题来了

which types of relationships support our well-being?

哪一种人际关系对我们 的健康幸福有好处呢

Some people have asked,

有些人也问过

"Do I need to be in an intimate relationship to get this benefit?"

“要有亲密关系才能从中获益吗”

Absolutely not.

当然不是

All types of relationships support our well-being.

所有人际交往都对我们 的健康幸福有好处

So friendships, relatives,

不论是你的朋友亲戚

work colleagues, casual contacts.

还是你的同事或是日常的一些接触

The person who gets you your coffee every morning

比如每天早上

at Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts,

在星巴克或面包店里 给你做咖啡的咖啡师

the person who checks you out in the grocery store,

杂货店里的结账的收银员

who you see maybe every week.

这些你似乎每周都能碰见的人

Even talking to strangers has that benefit.

甚至是和陌生人谈话也对你有好处

So they did an experiment

所以他们做了一个实验

where they assigned some people who were about to go on the subway

派了一批人去乘坐地铁

the task of talking to a stranger

一部分人的任务是和陌生人讲话

while other people were assigned the task

另一部分人的任务就是随便做点什么

of just doing their usual thing of being on their phones

随便玩玩手机

or listening to music or reading.

听听音乐或是看看书

It turned out that the people who were assigned to talk to strangers

结果发现，和陌生人讲话的那批人

didn't think they were going to like it,

起初虽并未料到他们会享受这些交谈

but they turned out to be much happier at the end of the task

但是和那批只是坐在地铁上 独来独往的人相比

than the people who just rode the subway keeping to themselves.

他们在任务的最后要表现得更加快乐

So even talking to strangers gives us that little hit of well-being

所以就算和陌生人聊天 也能给我们一丝幸福感

from relationships.

这正是从人际关系中受益

So the question comes up:

那么现在的问题是

How can we strengthen our connections with other people?

我们如何去增强我们的人际关系呢

And this is where we've come to think about it

我们认为这一问题的解决方案

as a kind of social fitness.

需要一种“社交健身”

If we think about physical fitness,

当我们谈到身体健身时

you know, we we think, OK, I'll go to the gym,

我们往往都会想说我去健身房

I’ll work out, I’ll take a long walk,

我要做做健身运动，慢跑一段

I'll do something to keep myself strong and fit.

我要让自己的身体 保持健康，保持强壮

But then we come home and we don't say, I'm done,

但在我们回到家后我们不会说 “今天练完了”

I don't ever have to do that again.

“我再也不会去健身房锻炼了”

We have the sense that physical fitness is a practice

我们知道，身体上的健身

that we need to maintain over time.

需要我们一直坚持下去

It turns out that social fitness is the same.

而我们的结果也发现，社交健身同理

That in fact, our friendships,

事实证明

our relationships don't just take care of themselves,

我们的友谊和人际关系 不会自己照顾自己

that even good relationships need tending to,

甚至好的人际关系也需要照料

they need attention.

需要关注

They need returning to them over and over again.

需要不断地再去经营

So what are some ways that we can strengthen our relationships?

哪些方法也能够增进 我们的人际关系呢

Well, one way is to be proactive, to take the initiative.

一种方法就是积极一点，主动一点

So to reach out to a friend

主动联系一下你的朋友吧

and ask her to take a walk

叫她出来陪你散散步

instead of spending two more hours on your laptop

而不是在这个星期六的下午

this weekend on Saturday afternoon.

又玩两个小时电脑

Establish some routines with the people

去和那些对你很重要的人

who are most important to you.

建立一些固定的关系

A regular phone call or a coffee every Saturday

比如常给别人打个电活

with someone you really want to be sure you see regularly.

或者每周六和你想常见 的人出来喝杯咖啡

Or meeting somebody at the gym.

也可以和某人约好去健身房

Or having lunch with a coworker.

或者和同事一起吃午餐

The other thing we can do is liven up those long-standing relationships,

而对那些认识很久的人

我们可以试着让彼此 的关系重新热络起来

particularly like the people we live with.

尤其是与那些同居的人

You know, people we can come to take for granted,

因为和这些人的相处我们都习以为常

by proposing to do something new.

所以我们可以提议做一些新鲜事

Going out on a date,

出去约个会

just taking a walk, if that's not your usual routine.

如果平时不常散步 的话也可以出去走走

The other thing that we know works to help people,

还有一个有帮助的方法

particularly who aren't as connected to others as they want to be,

尤其能帮到那些交往不如意的人

is to connect around shared interests.

那就是找到和他人的共同兴趣

So volunteer in the community

比如在社区做志愿者

to do something that you care about.

去做那些你在意，感兴趣的事情

It might be a gardening club, it might be a bowling league,

可以加入园艺小组 也可以加入保龄球队

it might be a political cause.

甚至还可以参与政治相关的活动

But to do something that you care about

但是一定是那些你感兴趣的事情

because then you're with other people who care about the same thing,

因为那样你才能找到你的同好

and that's a natural place to start conversations

在这种场合，自然而然就会聊起天来

that can lead to ongoing relationships.

最后发展成持续的人际关系

And finally,

最后

get more comfortable striking up casual conversations.

和别人聊天的时候放轻松

That's something we can learn to be more comfortable with,

可以通过学习的方式去让自己放轻松

almost like exercising a muscle.

就像锻炼肌肉一样

So now,

所以现在

I would like to ask you to do one of these things,

我想让你们从以上挑一件事来做

to make one of these choices that we can make every day.

挑一件你每天都可以做的事

I'd like you to make that choice right now.

我想让你们现在就选

Here’s my challenge to you:

以下就是我对你们的挑战

think about someone you miss,

想一个你思念的人

that you just haven't seen in a while

你们很久未见

or you haven't had contact with,

或者很久都没有联系了

and you'd like to make contact.

但你现在想和他聊聊天

You don't even have to have a particular reason.

你甚至不需要一个理由

Now I want you to take out your phone or whatever device you use, right now,

现在，我想让你拿出你的手机 或者其他电子设备

and send that person just a little note.

给这个人发几句话

It could say, "I'm just thinking of you and wanted to connect."

你可以说: “我刚刚在想你，想和你聊聊天”

“我刚刚在想你，想和你聊聊天”

Or you could say something more personal to you and to your relationship.

或者说一些你或你们间更私人的事

And then watch what comes back to you.

然后看看你会收到什么回复

And while we're here,

而且，现在我们都在这儿

we may even have time to share with each other

时间充裕，我们还可以互相分享

some of the responses that people get when they do this.

分享那个人给你的回复

So think of someone.

所以现在快想想那个人

And make contact right now.

然后立刻给他发信息

The point of this simple exercise

而这样做的意义是提醒我们

is to remind us that even small actions

就算是这样小小的一个举动

can have ripple effects that build our well-being.

也会有连锁反应 能够提升人的幸福感

And that these are things you can do every day in the moment.

而这些事你每天都能做 还不会花太多时间

Thank you.

谢谢

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: One way I'd love to kick things off,

那我想我就这样开始了

Bob, you mentioned, at the top of your talk,

罗伯特，你在演讲开始提到

that you run this Harvard Study of Adult Development

你负责哈佛哈佛成人发展研究

and gave us sort of a snippet of what that is.

但对此你只给我们透露了一点点内容

But could you tell us a little bit more about the study,

能再给我们分享一些 有关此研究的信息吗

what does it track?

研究追踪的对象是哪些人

Why did it start, who’s in the study today?

为什么要开展这项研究 以及如今谁还参与此项研究呢

Robert Waldinger: Absolutely.

罗伯特·瓦尔丁格： 没问题

The study started in 1938,

这个研究始于1938年

and it started with two groups:

起初有两组对象

a group of Harvard College undergrads,

一组是哈佛大学的本科生

and it started with a group of inner city boys

另一组是旧城区的一些男孩

who were in elementary school or middle school

这些人都在上小学或中学

from really disadvantaged, troubled families.

他们的家庭背景都非常糟糕

And each study was trying to look

而这两组研究目的相同

at how people can take healthy developmental paths.

都是为了研究人们如何健康发展

And so the idea was not to study what goes wrong in our lives

所以研究并非旨在探讨人生有何不顺

but what goes right in our lives.

而是探讨哪些事发展顺利

And some of the factors that contribute to helping things go well

探讨在人的发展历程中

in human development.

哪些因素能让生活变好

Needless to say, we started out with boys, all males,

当然，研究对象一开始都是男性

but we’ve added women.

但后来也有女性研究对象

And we have more than half women now,

现在有超过一半的对象是女性

and we've added the second generation.

而他们的后代也是我们的研究对象

So we started out with 724 people.

所以虽然一开始只有724个人

Now we have over 2,000 people in our study

但现在研究对象已经超过2000名

and we're still collecting data today.

并且我们仍在进行数据收集

WPR: Wow.

惠特妮： 哇

And I know in the book you talk about ...

我知道你谈论的那本书

how the advice you offer,

你的建议以及你的智慧

the wisdom you offer is not just drawn from your own study

其实不仅仅是只考量了你自己的研究

because of some of what you've suggested,

因为就像你刚刚说的那样

that you're just now starting to bring women and different generations.

你也才开始去研究女性和不同的世代

And I guess could you talk about some of the other gaps

那么你是否能够 给我们说一些其他信息

and why it's been important to also think about some

以及为什么去探讨其他有关 生命和幸福的研究

of the other studies out there on life and happiness?

为什么这很重要呢

RW: Yes, that's a really good point,

嗯，那是个好问题。

because, particularly in this kind of research,

因为单个研究不可能证明所有事物

no single study is proof of anything.

尤其是在这种研究里

That what we want is for different studies of different populations.

我们想要的是对不同人群的不同研究

So different ethnic groups, different cultural groups,

来自不同种族的人， 来自不同文化背景的人

different geographies, right?

以及来自不同地方的人

We want different studies to point in the same direction.

不同的研究对象， 但都是同一个研究方向

And that's why I'm here and I can tell you with confidence,

这就是为什么我能够在这自信地和你交谈

many studies point to all these same benefits of relationships.

很多不同的研究都得出了同样 有关人际关系好处的结论

WPR: And I know you touched on the health element in your talk

我知道在之前的演讲中 你还谈到了健康的因素

and shared that there is data that reveals that we have --

并且和我们分享了

that there's a strong connection between happiness and health.

有数据表明健康与幸福之间关系密切

What have you specifically found related to happiness and health outcomes?

那么有关这两个因素 你具体找到了什么呢

RW: What we find is that happiness

我们发现

turns out to make us age more slowly

幸福快乐最后能减缓我们的衰老

and keep us able longer.

延长我们的寿命

So the diseases of aging that happen to all of us, happen later,

所以那些我们身上 的衰老疾病会被延缓

sometimes they don't happen at all

有时那些更快乐， 更有幸福感的人

in people who are happier have a greater sense of well-being.

甚至都不会患上这些病

And it's because of what I spoke about a few minutes ago,

这就是因为我几分钟前谈到的那些

this kind of decrease in chronic inflammation and chronic stress.

这会降低处于长期发炎 和紧张的状态的概率

And so what we find is that -- we can't guarantee

所以我们发现

that any one person is going to stay happier or live longer

虽然我们不能保证一个人 有良好的人际关系

if they have better relationships,

他就能更快乐 活得更久

but we find that there are these ingredients,

但是我们发现他会给我们带来一些正面因素

just like taking care of your health --

比如关心自己的健康状况

you know, not smoking, not abusing alcohol or drugs,

不会抽烟，喝酒，嗑药

exercising regularly,

经常锻炼

getting regular health care,

定期进行医疗保健

having access to health care.

或者去办理医保

All of those things really matter for our health.

所有这些事情都对我们的健康很重要

WPR: And you start the book with a question.

你在书本的开篇就抛出了问题

You say, "If you had to make one life choice right now

你说:

“如果你必须现在做一个人生选择”

to set yourself on the path to future health and happiness,

让你的未来健康快乐

what would it be?"

你会做什么呢？

And from hearing your talk today,

听了你今天的演讲

we know that the right answer to that question

我们知道这个问题的正确答案是

is to build more warm connections.

建立更加热络的人际关系

But I want to ask you about the use of the word "choice" there

但是我想问一问这里 “选择”这个词的使用

and understanding more about whether or not having warm connections

以及想更加了解： 建立起热络的人际关系

is a choice that we make

是否是我们的主观选择

or, to put it another way,

或者换个说法

are there qualities that each of us have that maybe make us more social people

我们身上是否有一些特质 能让我们更会社交

and that these are just baked into our personalities?

那些特质是刻在我们的个性里的吗

Can we decide to be a person who makes connections?

我们能选择成为一个主动建立 他人际关系的人吗

RW: That's a really important point because we differ.

这个问题真的非常重要

We are all different in how much connection we want and benefit from.

因为就人际关系程度 和收益而言人人不同

So some of us are introverts, and that’s just fine.

所以某我们中的某一些人很内向

That's perfectly normal.

但那也非常正常

And introverts don't want a lot of connections.

内向的人不想要太多的人际交往

In fact, being with a lot of people is exhausting for introverts.

事实上对内向者而言 和太多人打交道非常的累

And so some people just need one or two good relationships.

所以有些人只需一 或两段好的人际关系

Everybody needs a little bit of connection.

每个人都需要一点点的人际交往

But some people actually don't need a lot.

但是某些人不需要太多

And so what we want to do is try to figure out for ourselves

所以我们想做的 是找到对我们自己而言

what's right for me.

真正适合自己的

And that involves, really, just tuning in and saying,

而那真的需要 （只是表达我的观点）

"OK, I'm energized by being with a lot of people,

“我和很多人在一起感觉活力满满”

so I'm going to do that,"

“所以我要有很多人际关系”

or "No, I'm exhausted by being with a lot of people.

或者“不，我和很多人在一起很累”

For me, you know, a quiet conversation with one person

“对我来说 与人相处中最让我有活力的事”

is the most energizing thing I can do in the interpersonal realm."

“就是和另一个人安安静静地聊天”

And so it's really a matter of discerning what's right for each person.

所以重要的是 找到对每个人而言适合他们的方式

WPR: And what factors have you found contribute to that?

惠特妮： 那你找到了哪些致因呢

Maybe things from early in life or childhood

可能你早期生活或童年里的一些事情

that might actually shape our ability to make these connections later in life?

这些事会影响你今后人际交往的能力吗

RW: Yes, so, many of our social skills we learn when we're growing up.

是的，很多交往技巧 都是我们在长大过程中习得的

We learn it in our families,

在我们家人身上

we learn it at school and on the playground.

在学校里 在操场上

They can be learned, and they can be improved

但我们已经步入成年阶段后

as we get into adulthood.

我们可以主动去学习它们 也可以去改善它们

They’re not set in stone once we’re done with childhood.

它们不是在童年时期就刻在骨子里的

So it's really important to see the ways that, you know,

所以，你知道的，最最重要的是，

just like some of the suggestions I made,

就像我提的那些建议一样

ways that you can practice getting better at this,

是你怎么让社交技巧更娴熟

because it really pays off.

因为这真的有奏效

But some people are not so good at this.

在某些人对此并不擅长

And they can have perfectly wonderful,

没有成为社交花和外向者

happy, healthy lives

但是她们依然有非常美好

without being social butterflies and extroverts.

非常健康，非常幸福的生活

And I just want to name that

我只是举个例子

so that people don't go away thinking,

那样人们就不会开始胡思乱想

"Gosh, if I'm not an extrovert, I'm out of luck."

“天啊如果我不外向 那我一定不走运”

Not true at all.

这完全是错的

Many of our happiest people had quieter lives.

很多快乐的人他们的生活都很宁静

WPR: And you know, I guess to the tips that you offered in the talk, you know,

惠特妮： 你演讲里提到的小技巧

you talked about how we can build warm connections,

你谈到了我们怎么去 构建更热络的人际关系

steps that we can take.

那些一一的步骤

And this idea of social fitness.

然后还有社交健身这一理念

And so I'm curious how can we actually assess our social fitness,

我很好奇怎么评估我们的社交健身

and as you said, to sort of, understand what is right for us

并且正如你所说 去理解到什么是适合我们的

in terms of how many friends to have.

比如说，要交几个朋友

And is it possible to sustain warm relationships

以及如果我们不主动考虑社交健身

if you aren't really intentional in thinking about your social fitness?

我们可能维持热络的人际关系吗

RW: That question of how do we assess our social fitness,

“如何评估我们 的社交健身”这一问题

it's really checking in and saying,

我想我们需要考虑，并且反问自己

am I as connected as I would like to be

“我是和我想象中那样”

to other people?

“与他人建立起了人际关系吗”

And if I'm not, what am I missing?

“如果没有，那么我缺了点什么呢”

So not all relationships provide us with the same stuff.

所以不是所有的人际关系性质都一样

Some relationships are relationships we have because they're fun,

我们之所以一些人际关系

you know?

可能是因为这些人很有趣

And so they're the people I like to go out and party with.

所以我愿意和这些人出去玩，开派对

Some relationships are the relationships that help me when I'm scared or hurting

而有些人际关系的产生则是因为

or worried about something.

它能在我害怕，受伤，焦虑时帮助我

And I need someone to talk things over with.

这些时候我想要有个人陪我聊聊

I need a sounding board, a good advisor.

我需要一个能够给我提供意见的人

Some relationships are the people who, you know,

而有些人际关系可以帮我搭把手

loan me tools when I need to fix something and I don't have the right tool

在我没有工具修东西时借给我工具

or give me a ride to the doctor.

或者是帮忙载我去找医生

So part of it is checking in about, what am I missing?

所以社交健身就包含反问自己 “我缺了什么”

And then seeing what might be possible

然后就发展更多预期的人际关系而言

in terms of developing more of the relationships

去找到自己能够做什么

that give us the things we want more of.

让自己能够发展人际关系，惠及自己

WPR: And along those same lines, TED Member Tiana wants to know:

惠特妮：那按这么想， TED会员缇安娜也想知道

How do we define if a relationship is actually meaningful or not?

我们如何定义一段 人际关系是否有意义

I mean, it sounds like understanding what these voices are saying,

就像是理解这些声音在说什么

but are there other things we should pay attention to, to know if it's valuable,

但如果想知道这段关系是否有价值

if this is a warm connection?

是否是一段热络的人际关系 有其他事情我们要注意的吗

RW: One way to think about it

思考这个问题的一个方法就是

is not whether the relationship is smooth all the time,

不要去想这个关系是否一直舒适

but whether we feel that we can be authentic,

而是我们是否能够在这段关系中

we can be ourselves in a relationship.

真诚以待，做真实的自己

And obviously, we won't be the same selves

很显然我们不会在每段关系里都一样

in a work relationship that we might be with our, you know, beloved sister,

在工作关系里 面对我们亲爱的姐妹

you know.

我们就会是另一个自己

But still, can I be myself in the most essential ways?

但问题是 我还能以最基本的方式做我自己吗

Can I express myself?

表达自己的想法吗

And can the other person express themselves?

其他人能表达自己的想法吗

Because I think that's where --

因为我认为

what we really want is to feel known

我们真正想要的是被感知

and to feel seen

被看见

and not to feel like we are having to maintain a façade

而不是觉得我们要去维持

that hides who we are.

那个隐藏我们真实自己的假面

And so the best relationships are those where we feel we can be ourselves.

所以倘若我们能在其中做自己 那这段人际关系就是最好的

WPR: And you talked about how, really, it's romantic relationships, friendships,

惠特妮： 你还谈到了恋爱，友谊

acquaintances,

泛泛之交

I mean, all of these relationships matter.

以及所有这些人际关系有多重要

But do you find that one of these is maybe more significant than the other,

但你是否找到了其中最重要的那个

or how do you look at them?

或者你怎么看待他们呢

RW: I look at it in terms of the secure attachment we think about.

我从安全依恋的角度来看待人际关系

Attachment is a word for being warmly, securely connected.

依恋指两人关系热络且有安全感

It’s the “Who can you call in the middle of the night if you’re sick or scared?”

就代表着“在午夜害怕 或难受时你会给谁打电话”

So I think of it in those terms,

所以我是从这些角度考虑的

not necessarily the person's role, defined role in our life,

决定性因素不一定是另外一个人

like romantic partner or boss.

比如伴侣或者老板所扮演的角色

But it’s the “Does this person have my back?”

而是说“是否这个人力挺我”

And so that's, I think, the defining element

所以，这才是我认为的决定性因素

that we want to find somewhere in our world.

是我们想在这个世界上找到的东西

WPR: So we have so many member questions coming in, Bob,

罗伯特，我们会员也有很多问题想问

and I'm going to kind of go through a few more of them.

现在我要替他们问其中一些问题了

So TED Member Nancy wants to know if you think it’s possible

TED会员Nancy想知道 对于一个在人生的某个阶段

for an endemically unhappy person at some point in life to obtain happiness.

经常不开心的人来说 是否有可能获得幸福呢

RW: Yes. And thank you for asking that question.

当然可以并且 感谢你问这个问题

So we have a couple of life stories in our book,

在我们的书中有一些人生故事

the book contains real stories of real people.

这些故事都是真人真事

The names are disguised to protect confidentiality.

只不过出于保密 他们的名字都是化名

But some of those stories are of people who have big turnarounds late in life,

里面有些人正是在 人生后期发生了大转变

people who were isolated and less happy

这些人之前不善社交，不那么快乐

and in their 60s found a whole community.

然后在60多岁找到了自己的大团体

One man found a community at a gym

有一个人是在健身房找到的

that he never dreamed he would find.

他从来都没想过他能找到自己的团体

And so the message that we get from studying these thousands of lives is:

所以经过研究数千案例 我们知道的是

it is never too late.

幸福快乐永远都不完

And so don't assume that it's too late for you,

所以就算你过去不幸

even if you feel like you've not had good luck with this in the past.

也不要觉得为时已晚

WPR: Well, Bob, we're getting some questions about you.

罗伯特，我们接下来 问一些关于你的问题

And I want to turn to you for a second.

我也想向您请教一下

And I'm curious how running this study has changed the way you approach life

我很好奇进行这项研究 是怎样改变了你看待生活的方式

and your own pursuit of happiness.

以及怎样改变了你自己对幸福的追求

RW: Oh, gosh.

天哪

Well, one of the things it's helped me with is the idea

在这其中有一件 我认为有帮助的事情是

that everybody has struggles in their life.

我意识到所有人的生活都不容易

That has been so meaningful to me

对我来说非常有意义

because I can also look at the world and say,

因为我也可以从其他 视角看待这个世界

"Gee, other people seem to have lives

我可以说：

“天啊，其他人的生活好像很光鲜”

that have it all figured out and perfect lives."

“他们活得好通透，过得好完美”

It is so helpful to know

而你要知道

that there isn't a person on the planet

世界上没有一个人活得很容易

who doesn't have struggles.

这种想法对我帮助很大

And it makes me feel less alone when I can recognize that.

我意识到这点的时候 我感觉不那么孤单了

And that's one of the reasons why I want to keep getting these messages out,

也是为什么在我们 对数千人进行研究之后

after having studied thousands of lives.

我依然想向他们传达这些发现

And I think the other thing that it's changed is my own priorities.

还有就是我对事情 轻重缓急程度的判断变了

So I realize,

我意识到

OK, I can sit here this afternoon and edit another paper

这个下午我可以坐在这里 修改我的另一篇论文

or do more work,

或者做更多的工作

or I can see my friend who I haven't seen in a month.

或者我也可以去见一个月没见的朋友

And so I’ve become more active in taking care of my relationships,

而且在经营人际关系上 我变得更加主动

and it makes a big difference.

这也促成了很大的变化

So I would say that those are the two big things for me

所以我认为以上这两个大的改变

that directing this study has changed about my life.

就是主导这项研究对我生活的改变

WPR: We have a question from TED Member Nesa.

TED会员Nesa想问一个问题

They ask: “As a mother of two very young children,

她说：“我是两个小孩的母亲

what advice do you have for parents to build strong,

我想知道父母在孩子们成年之前

healthy relationships,

想要和孩子建立亲密良好的亲子关系

now through adulthood?"

你会给出什么建议呢？”

RW: For parents,

对父母来说

it’s really helping your children to pay attention

你们真的要帮你们的孩子去注意到

to how they feel

他们自己的感受

and to learn to use their feelings with more choice.

并且帮他们学会用多种方式 处理自己的情感

So learning to love what they love and hang on to what they love,

所以学着去喜欢他们喜欢的东西 让他们坚持他们的热爱

even if it's not so popular.

尽管这有可能不是那么主流

You know, I had a mother talk to me

有个母亲曾经跟我聊过天

about how her child really loved doing improv comedy.

她说她的孩子真的 很喜欢即兴喜剧表演

And he’s only 12,

而他才12岁

and his friends don't like that.

他身边的朋友都不喜欢这个东西

And so we talked about how do you help your child feel supported

所以我们讨论了 如何让孩子们感到被支持

in loving what he loves and taking an improv class, right?

我们可以去喜欢他喜欢的东西 让他上即兴喜剧课

So helping your kids learn that it's OK to love something

要让你的孩子知道 你可以去热爱某样事物

that's not the same as all the other kids in their group

那可以是和身边其他人都不同的喜好

and keep loving what they love.

并且要让他们坚持他们热爱的

And helping kids learn that it’s OK to be unhappy

要让孩子们知道你可以感到不开心

and that that will pass,

不开心也终会消散

that feelings come and go.

所有人的情绪来去如风

That it’s OK to disagree.

还要让他们知道你可以有不同意见

Families can model,

家人们和父母

parents can model for kids.

都可以为孩子们树立榜样

We can have disagreements.

我们可以有不同的想法

We can work it out and and hold on to these good relationships

我们可以解决这个问题 并且关系还依然很好

even through disagreements.

尽管我们有不同的意见和想法

Those are some of the biggest lessons we can help our children with,

但是对孩子们有益 的最重要的一些课程

about how to use their feelings

帮助他们学会如何处理自己的情感

rather than kind of, be buffeted by their feelings

而不是被这些情感所伤害

and ruled by their feelings.

或者被这些情感主宰

WPR: I'm curious just where you see the study going from here.

我很好奇你认为这个 实验未来的走向是什么

RW: We are collecting more data, even as we speak.

在我们俩聊天的过程中 我们团队也在收集更多的数据

We are collecting more information from the children.

我们正在从儿童身上收集更多的信息

Almost all the original participants have passed away,

所有最早的参与者几乎都去世了

but their children are all Baby Boomers, on average.

但总的来说他们的孩子 都是在生育潮时期出生的

And so we're collecting information,

所以我们从他们身上收集数据

including about what life was like during the pandemic.

其中就包括他们 在疫情时期的生活状况

Also collecting information about how they use social media,

还会收集有关他们 使用社交媒体的信息

which is something we've all been talking about a bit here.

我们在这儿也谈论了一点这个内容

And I think in terms of the future,

并且我认为在未来

we see ourselves as wanting to make our data available

我们想和越来越多的研究者

to more and more researchers.

分享我们的信息

So we want to collaborate, and we do collaborate,

我们想和其他研究团队合作

with other research groups.

我们也正在和其他研究团队合作

We say, come in and use our data

我们欢迎他们来使用我们的数据

and ask new questions that we don’t even think to ask.

欢迎他们来问我们新问题 那些问题可能我们都未考虑过

Because we have this treasure trove of information about thousands of lives.

因为我们有这样一个从数千人身上 收集来的有价值的信息库

And then we're going to make it publicly available on public websites,

我们也会让这些信息 在公共网站上向公众开放

because, you know, much of our work

因为你知道我们很多工作

has been funded by the federal government,

其实都收到了来自联邦政府的资助

by NIH, with taxpayer money.

以及国家健康协会的资助 这些都是纳税人的钱

And so we feel a responsibility to make this information available

所以我认为我们有责任向那些

to other researchers

想对我们的数据提出问题的研究者们

who want to ask their own questions about our data.

公开我们的数据信息

WPR: Well, Bob, you’ve shared so many great things with us.

罗伯特，你给我们分享了 太多有价值的内容

You know, I feel like if people were listening

我都在想人们是否在认真聆听

and trying to absorb all of it,

然后试着吸收所有内容

and at the very end of this conversation

那么在谈话的末尾

you want just one nugget of information, that if you missed everything,

如果听众错过了所有的信息 只需要最重要的一点

what is the one thing that you want everyone to walk away from,

那最值得所有人注意的一点什么呢

at the end of this conversation?

在谈话的最后和我们分享一下吧

RW: That if you want to make one choice today

那就是如果你今天想做一个选择

that will make you healthier and happier,

一个让你更健康更开心的选择

it is to pay attention to improving your connections with other people.

那就是注重改善你和他人的人际关系

That that is such a good investment, and it will pay off for years to come.

这是一个很好的投资 并且会在未来的得到成效

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