The Secret to a Happy Life — Lessons from 8 Decades of Research | Robert Waldinger | TED

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Helen Chang

Hello, everybody,

哈囉，大家好，我很高興能來這裡，

I am delighted to be here

and grateful to all of you

也很感謝各位來參與我們的討論。

for joining us for this discussion.

In 2015,

2015 年，

I gave a TEDx Talk

我做了一場 TEDx 演說，

in a little elementary school auditorium,

地點在一個小型的小學禮堂，

and much to my surprise,

出乎我的意料，

the talk became one of the 10 most-viewed talks

那場演說成為 TED 史上

最多人觀看的演說前十名。

in the history of TED.

And in that talk, I conveyed one simple scientific finding.

我在那場演說中所傳遞的

只是一項簡單的科學發現。

The finding that when we study hundreds of people

我們發現，當我們研究了數百人，

over their entire adult lives,

且持續研究他們的整個成人人生，

the people who turn out to be the happiest and the healthiest

結果最快樂且最健康的人

are those who have good, warm connections to others.

是和他人有良好、溫暖連結的人。

So today, I want to take you deeper into this whole subject,

所以今天我想帶大家更深入

探討這個主題，

by exploring how relationships matter in our lives,

我們要來探究在我們的生活中 關係有什麼樣的重要性、

how they affect our health,

關係如何影響我們的健康、

what kinds of relationships give us this big benefit in happiness,

什麼樣的關係能帶給我們 快樂方面的大益處，

and which tools you can start using today to make your relationship stronger.

以及今天你就能開始運用哪些工具

來讓你的關係更堅固。

So I do direct this Harvard Study of Adult Development.

我的確是哈佛大學這項 成人發展研究的主持人，

It's, as far as we know, the longest study of the same people

就我們所知，這是目前 對同樣對象最長時間的研究，

that's ever been done, following people since 1938.

史無前例，從 1938 年起 就在追蹤研究對象，

From adolescence all the way through old age,

從青春期一路到老年，

and now following all of their children,

現在在追蹤他們所有的子女，

thousands of lives.

數千人的人生。

And we began to find,

而，

大約三十年前，我們開始發現，

about 30 years ago,

this startling connection between warm relationships

有一種驚人的連結，

溫暖的關係會連結到

and how good our lives feel to us,

我們覺得我們的人生有多好、

our well-being,

我們的幸福，

and also the fact that warm relationships seemed to keep people

此外，

溫暖的關係似乎能讓人保持

both physically stronger and kept their brains sharper

身體的強健，也能 讓他們的大腦更敏銳，

as they grew older.

隨著他們老化能有這些助益。

And we didn't believe the data at first.

一開始，我們並不相信這些資料。

We thought, how could this be

我們的想法是，怎麼可能

that relationships actually get into our bodies

關係會進入到我們的體內

and shape our health?

形塑我們的健康？

But then other studies began to find the same thing.

但其他研究也開始發現同樣的結果。

We found that people had less depression,

我們發現人會比較不憂鬱，

they were less likely to get diabetes and heart disease,

比較不會得到糖尿病和心臟疾病，

that they recovered faster from illness

從疾病中恢復的速度比較快，

when they had better connections with other people.

這些都發生在和他人 有比較好的關係時。

So then the question is: How could this work?

接著的問題是：這怎麼運作？

How do relationships shape our happiness and our physical health?

我們的關係如何形塑我們的快樂

以及我們的身體健康？

Well, one of the best theories,

最好的理論之一，

for which there's now some pretty good evidence,

現在也有很不錯的證據支持，

is based on the idea of stress.

它的基礎想法是「壓力」。

That, as we know, stress is an inevitable part of all of our lives.

如我們所知，大家的人生 都無法避免有壓力。

Stress happens to us every day.

每天我們都會有壓力。

And what we find is that good relationships

而我們發現的是

好的關係竟然是種

turn out to be stress regulators.

壓力調節器。

So let me give you an example.

讓我舉個例子。

Let's say that I have something upsetting happen to me during the day,

假設今天我遇到了 一件讓我很沮喪的事，

and I find myself, like, ruminating about it

我發現我自己會一直反覆想著它，

and really thinking about it and unhappy.

真的在想著它，感到很不快樂。

I can feel my body go into what we call fight or flight response

我可以感到我的身體進入了 所謂「戰或逃」的反應，

where literally my heart rate goes up

在這個情況下，我的心跳會上升，

and I might start sweating a little bit

我可能會開始流點汗，

and I'm just not feeling as well.

我就是感覺不太好。

Now, what we're meant to do is to come back to equilibrium

我們應該要做的

是要在壓力因子消失之後 就返回到均衡狀態，

when a stressor goes away.

That's the way the body is supposed to work.

身體應該要這樣運作。

But what happens if I go home at the end of my upsetting day

但，這樣會如何：

如果在我很沮喪的那一天 結束時，我回到家，

and I have somebody to talk to?

我可以和某個人談談？

Either I can call someone on the phone or it's somebody I live with.

我可以打電話給某個人， 也可能是和我同住的人。

I can literally feel my body calm down.

我可以真的感覺到 我的身體冷靜下來。

I can feel that fight or flight response subside.

我可以感覺到那「戰或逃」的反應

平息下來。

But what if I don't have anybody to go home to?

但如果我回家後都沒有人呢？

What if there's nobody I can call?

如果也沒人能讓我打電話去訴苦呢？

What we find is that people who are isolated, are lonely,

我們的發現是

孤立、寂寞的人

don't have those stress regulators that we get from good relationships

沒有我們能從好的關係中 得到的那些壓力調節器，

and that we stay in chronic fight or flight mode,

就會待在慢性的「戰或逃」模式中，

that our bodies have this chronic stress,

我們的身體要承受這種慢性壓力，

chronic levels of inflammation

慢性的發炎，

and circulating stress hormones that wear away our happiness

並且

讓壓力荷爾蒙到處游走， 磨損我們的快樂，

and break down different body systems.

破壞不同的身體系統。

Well, what kinds of relationships seem essential to well-being?

幸福必備的關係大概是哪幾種？

And this is interesting.

這很有趣。

We asked people

我們詢問了

who were our original participants in our study.

我們這項研究的原始參與者。

We asked them,

我們問他們，

Who could you call in the middle of the night if you were sick or scared?

當你在大半夜時不舒服或害怕時，

你能打電話給誰？

And many of our people could list several other people they could call

許多被問的人都可以列出數個 他們在有麻煩時能打電話

if they were in trouble.

求助的對象，

Some people couldn't list anyone.

有些人卻一個也列不出來。

There wasn't a person on the planet who they could turn to

世界上沒有任何一個人讓他們

在不舒服或害怕的時候可以去求助。

if they were sick or scared.

And what we find is that having at least one person in your life

我們發現

如果你的人生中至少有一個人

who you feel really has your back,

是你覺得真正會挺你的人，

who you could go to if you were in trouble,

你如果遇到麻煩可以向這個人求助，

that's essential for maintaining our happiness and our health.

那是非常重要的，

能協助維持我們的快樂 和我們的健康。

When we asked these same people,

當我們等這些人

到了八十多歲時，再請他們

when they got to be in their 80s,

to look back on their lives

回顧自己的人生，

and to tell us what they were proudest of,

告訴我們讓他們最驕傲的是什麼，

almost everybody said something about their relationships.

幾乎每一個人

回答都和他們的關係有關。

They didn't say, "I made a lot of money"

他們沒有說「我賺了很多錢」

or "I won some big awards."

或者「我得了某項大獎」。

They said,

他們說的包括

"I was a good mentor,"

「我是個好導師」、

"I was a good friend,"

「我是個好朋友」、

"I raised healthy kids,"

「我養育出了健康的孩子」、

"I was a good partner."

「我是個好伴侶」。

And so what we find

所以，我們發現，

is that what seems to mean the most to people

當人走到人生的最後階段時， 似乎，對他們而言最有意義的

when they get to the end of their lives

is the strength and the warmth of their connections to others.

就是他們與他人的連結 所帶來的力量和溫暖。

So then the question comes up, well,

接著就要問這個問題：

which types of relationships support our well-being?

哪種關係能支持我們的幸福？

Some people have asked,

有些人問過：

"Do I need to be in an intimate relationship to get this benefit?"

「我需要建立親密關係 才能得到這種益處嗎？」

Absolutely not.

絕對不是。

All types of relationships support our well-being.

各種關係都能支持我們的幸福。

So friendships, relatives,

所以，友誼、親戚、

work colleagues, casual contacts.

工作上的同事、偶然的接觸者——

The person who gets you your coffee every morning

每天早上在星巴克 或 Dunkin’ Donuts 裡

at Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts,

端咖啡給你的人，

the person who checks you out in the grocery store,

在雜貨店幫你結帳的人，

who you see maybe every week.

也許你一個星期見到一次——

Even talking to strangers has that benefit.

就連和陌生人交談都有那樣的益處。

So they did an experiment

所以，

他們做了一項實驗，

where they assigned some people who were about to go on the subway

他們指派一項任務給 一些即將坐上地鐵的人：

the task of talking to a stranger

去和一個陌生人說話。

while other people were assigned the task

其他人被指派的任務

of just doing their usual thing of being on their phones

則是做他們搭地鐵時通常會做的事，

滑手機、聽音樂，或閱讀。

or listening to music or reading.

It turned out that the people who were assigned to talk to strangers

結果發現，被指派 去和陌生人交談的人

didn't think they were going to like it,

並不認為他們會喜歡這麼做，

but they turned out to be much happier at the end of the task

但在任務結束時， 他們竟然比較快樂，

than the people who just rode the subway keeping to themselves.

比只是自顧自搭地鐵的人更快樂。

So even talking to strangers gives us that little hit of well-being

所以就連和陌生人交談 也能從關係帶給我們

from relationships.

一點點幸福。

So the question comes up:

接著要問的是：

How can we strengthen our connections with other people?

我們要如何強化我們與他人的連結？

And this is where we've come to think about it

在這裡，我們就要

as a kind of social fitness.

把它視為一種社交適能。

If we think about physical fitness,

當我們想到體適能時，

you know, we we think, OK, I'll go to the gym,

我們會想，好， 我去健身房，去鍛鍊，

I’ll work out, I’ll take a long walk,

去做長距離的散步，

I'll do something to keep myself strong and fit.

我會做點什麼來讓我自己 保持強壯、健康。

But then we come home and we don't say, I'm done,

但回家之後，我們不會說， 我做完了且永遠不用再做了。

I don't ever have to do that again.

We have the sense that physical fitness is a practice

我們會意識到，體適能是一種

that we need to maintain over time.

我們需要隨時間一直持續做的實踐。

It turns out that social fitness is the same.

結果發現，社交適能也一樣。

That in fact, our friendships,

事實上，

我們的友誼、我們的關係 並不會自己照顧好自己，

our relationships don't just take care of themselves,

that even good relationships need tending to,

就連好的關係也需要照料， 它們需要注意力。

they need attention.

They need returning to them over and over again.

它們需要一而再 再而三地回去關心它們。

So what are some ways that we can strengthen our relationships?

所以，我們可以用哪些方式 來強化我們的關係？

Well, one way is to be proactive, to take the initiative.

一種方式是要積極採取主動。

So to reach out to a friend

所以，去聯絡一位朋友，

and ask her to take a walk

邀請她一同散個步，

instead of spending two more hours on your laptop

而不是花兩個小時 在你的筆記型電腦上，

this weekend on Saturday afternoon.

以這種方式度過這週六的下午。

Establish some routines with the people

和對你而言最重要的人 建立一些慣例行程，

who are most important to you.

A regular phone call or a coffee every Saturday

固定電話聯絡，或喝杯咖啡，

和你真的想要定期見到的人 約好每週六一次。

with someone you really want to be sure you see regularly.

Or meeting somebody at the gym.

或者和某人在健身房見面。

Or having lunch with a coworker.

或和同事吃午餐。

The other thing we can do is liven up those long-standing relationships,

我們還能用的另一招是

讓那些長存的關係活躍起來。

particularly like the people we live with.

特別是和我們同住者的關係。

You know, people we can come to take for granted,

我們可能漸漸把這些人 視為理所當然，

by proposing to do something new.

而我們可以提議做些新鮮事。

Going out on a date,

去約個會，

just taking a walk, if that's not your usual routine.

如果平常沒有一起散步的 慣例，就一起散個步。

The other thing that we know works to help people,

我們還知道有一招也會有助益，

particularly who aren't as connected to others as they want to be,

特別能幫助那些想和人連結 卻沒能做到預期的人，

is to connect around shared interests.

這招就是用共同興趣來做連結。

So volunteer in the community

可以做社區的志工，

to do something that you care about.

去做你在乎的事情。

It might be a gardening club, it might be a bowling league,

園藝社團、保齡球聯盟都可以，

it might be a political cause.

政治事業也好。

But to do something that you care about

但要做你在乎的事， 那麼一來你遇到的人

because then you're with other people who care about the same thing,

也會在乎那件事，

and that's a natural place to start conversations

那就是能很自然開啟對話的切入點，

that can lead to ongoing relationships.

說不定就能發展成持續的關係。

And finally,

最後，

get more comfortable striking up casual conversations.

讓自己能更自在地隨意搭訕。

That's something we can learn to be more comfortable with,

我們可以透過學習 得以更自在地搭訕，

almost like exercising a muscle.

幾乎就像是運動鍛鍊肌肉一樣。

So now,

那麼，現在

I would like to ask you to do one of these things,

我想要請大家

去做上述的其中一項，

to make one of these choices that we can make every day.

這是我們每天都能做的 選擇，去選擇一項。

I'd like you to make that choice right now.

我想請大家現在就做出選擇。

Here’s my challenge to you:

以下是我給各位的挑戰：

think about someone you miss,

想一個你想念的人，

that you just haven't seen in a while

你好一陣子沒見到這個人，

or you haven't had contact with,

或你好久沒聯絡這個人 而你有想要聯絡。

and you'd like to make contact.

You don't even have to have a particular reason.

你甚至不需要特定的理由。

Now I want you to take out your phone or whatever device you use, right now,

現在，

我要請你拿出你的手機 或你用的任何裝置，

現在就做，

and send that person just a little note.

發個訊息給這個人。

It could say, "I'm just thinking of you and wanted to connect."

內容可以是：

「我只是想到你，想要聯絡一下。」

Or you could say something more personal to you and to your relationship.

或者你可以說一些對你 及你的關係而言更私人的事。

And then watch what comes back to you.

接著就等著看會得到什麼回應。

And while we're here,

既然我們都在這裡了，

we may even have time to share with each other

我們可能甚至有時間可以與彼此分享

some of the responses that people get when they do this.

當對方收到訊息時的反應是什麼。

So think of someone.

所以，想出一個人，

And make contact right now.

現在就去聯絡。

The point of this simple exercise

這項簡單練習的重點

is to remind us that even small actions

是要提醒我們，就算是很小的舉動，

can have ripple effects that build our well-being.

也可能產生漣漪效應，

協助建立我們的幸福。

And that these are things you can do every day in the moment.

這些都是你能做的事，

每天，每刻，都能做。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: One way I'd love to kick things off,

主持人：我想這樣開始 進行討論，鮑伯，

你在演說開頭提到

Bob, you mentioned, at the top of your talk,

that you run this Harvard Study of Adult Development

你在主持哈佛的成人發展研究，

and gave us sort of a snippet of what that is.

並分享了這項研究的片斷。

But could you tell us a little bit more about the study,

你能多和我們談談這項 研究嗎？它在追蹤什麼？

what does it track?

為什麼展開這項研究？ 現今有誰參與研究？

Why did it start, who’s in the study today?

Robert Waldinger: Absolutely.

講者：當然可以，這項 研究開始於 1938 年。

The study started in 1938,

and it started with two groups:

一開始時有兩組人， 一組是哈佛大學的大學生，

a group of Harvard College undergrads,

and it started with a group of inner city boys

另一組是內都市貧民區的男孩，

who were in elementary school or middle school

就讀小學或中學，

from really disadvantaged, troubled families.

來自非常弱勢、有問題的家庭。

And each study was trying to look

每一項研究都是想試圖探究

at how people can take healthy developmental paths.

人們如何走上健康的發展之路。

And so the idea was not to study what goes wrong in our lives

所以想法並不是要研究 我們的人生中有什麼出錯了，

but what goes right in our lives.

而是有什麼做對了。

And some of the factors that contribute to helping things go well

也研究有哪些因素能夠促成

人類發展的順利進行。

in human development.

Needless to say, we started out with boys, all males,

不用說，我們一開始都找男孩，

都是男性，但我們已經添加了女性。

but we’ve added women.

And we have more than half women now,

現在已經有一半以上是女性， 我們還添加了第二代。

and we've added the second generation.

So we started out with 724 people.

所以，我們一開始有 七百二十四名參與者。

Now we have over 2,000 people in our study

現在我們的研究有超過兩千人，

and we're still collecting data today.

且現今我們仍然在收集資料。

WPR: Wow.

主持人：哇。我知道 在你所說的書中……

And I know in the book you talk about ...

how the advice you offer,

你所提供的建議，

the wisdom you offer is not just drawn from your own study

你所提供的智慧不只是 取材自你自己的研究，

because of some of what you've suggested,

因為你已談到，

that you're just now starting to bring women and different generations.

你剛開始納入女性和不同的世代。

And I guess could you talk about some of the other gaps

你能不能談談其他的落差， 以及為什麼重要的是

and why it's been important to also think about some

也要思考外頭其他關於 人生和快樂的研究？

of the other studies out there on life and happiness?

RW: Yes, that's a really good point,

講者：是的，這點說得很好，因為，

because, particularly in this kind of research,

特別在這類研究中，

no single study is proof of anything.

沒有單一研究能證明任何事。

That what we want is for different studies of different populations.

我們想要的是

有針對不同母體的不同研究，

So different ethnic groups, different cultural groups,

比如不同的人種族群、 不同的文化族群、

different geographies, right?

不同的地理族群，對吧？

We want different studies to point in the same direction.

我們想要的是不同的研究，

但都指向同一個方向。

And that's why I'm here and I can tell you with confidence,

那就是為什麼我在這裡 深具信心地告訴各位，

many studies point to all these same benefits of relationships.

許多研究指出 關係帶來同樣的益處。

WPR: And I know you touched on the health element in your talk

主持人：你在演說中 約略提到健康元素，

and shared that there is data that reveals that we have --

並分享說有資料顯示我們有——

that there's a strong connection between happiness and health.

快樂和健康之間有很強的關聯性。

What have you specifically found related to happiness and health outcomes?

你們對於快樂和健康結果 有哪些相關的明確發現？

RW: What we find is that happiness

講者：我們發現，快樂

turns out to make us age more slowly

竟然會讓我們老化得比較緩慢，

and keep us able longer.

讓我們有自理能力的時間延長。

So the diseases of aging that happen to all of us, happen later,

讓所有人都會面臨的老化疾病

能晚點發生，

sometimes they don't happen at all

有時甚至完全不發生在

in people who are happier have a greater sense of well-being.

比較快樂、比較有幸福感的人身上。

And it's because of what I spoke about a few minutes ago,

是因為我在幾分鐘前說到的

this kind of decrease in chronic inflammation and chronic stress.

慢性發炎和慢性壓力的減少。

And so what we find is that -- we can't guarantee

我們的發現是——

我們無法保證有更好的關係 就表示一定會更快樂

that any one person is going to stay happier or live longer

if they have better relationships,

或活得更久，

but we find that there are these ingredients,

但我們發現有這些要素，

just like taking care of your health --

就如同照料你的健康一樣——

you know, not smoking, not abusing alcohol or drugs,

不抽菸、不濫用酒精或藥物、

exercising regularly,

定期運動、

getting regular health care,

定期健康照護、

having access to health care.

擁有健康照護的管道——

All of those things really matter for our health.

所有這些都對我們的健康很重要。

WPR: And you start the book with a question.

主持人：你的書是用 一個問題當開頭，你說：

You say, "If you had to make one life choice right now

「若你現在得做一個人生抉擇，

to set yourself on the path to future health and happiness,

讓你自己踏上通往未來健康 與快樂的路，那會是什麼？」

what would it be?"

今天聽完你的演說，我們知道 那個問題的正確答案是

And from hearing your talk today,

we know that the right answer to that question

is to build more warm connections.

要建立更多溫暖的連結。

But I want to ask you about the use of the word "choice" there

但我想問的是， 你用了「抉擇」這個詞，

and understanding more about whether or not having warm connections

而更進一步了解， 是否要建立溫暖的連結

is a choice that we make

是我們所做的抉擇；

or, to put it another way,

或換種說法，

是不是人人有個更會社交的特質

are there qualities that each of us have that maybe make us more social people

內建在人格裡呢？

and that these are just baked into our personalities?

Can we decide to be a person who makes connections?

我們能決定自己要成為 建立連結的人嗎？

RW: That's a really important point because we differ.

講者：這點很重要，因為人各不同。

We are all different in how much connection we want and benefit from.

每個人想要多少連結， 能從多少連結受益都有所不同。

So some of us are introverts, and that’s just fine.

有些人很內向，

那也很好，那完全正常。

That's perfectly normal.

And introverts don't want a lot of connections.

而內向的人並不想要很多連結。

In fact, being with a lot of people is exhausting for introverts.

事實上，對內向的人而言， 和很多人在一起其實很累人。

And so some people just need one or two good relationships.

因此有些人只需要一、 兩個好的關係即可。

Everybody needs a little bit of connection.

每個人都需要一些連結，

But some people actually don't need a lot.

然而有些人需要的其實不多。

And so what we want to do is try to figure out for ourselves

所以我們要試著

找到對自己最適量的。

what's right for me.

And that involves, really, just tuning in and saying,

而那所涉及的就只是要有意識地，說：

"OK, I'm energized by being with a lot of people,

「好，

和很多人相處能讓我充電， 所以我要那麼做。」

so I'm going to do that,"

or "No, I'm exhausted by being with a lot of people.

或者：「不，和很多人在一起 太耗我心神，對我而言，

For me, you know, a quiet conversation with one person

和一個人安靜地交談

is the most energizing thing I can do in the interpersonal realm."

是我在人際領域能做的事情 當中，最有充電效果的。」

And so it's really a matter of discerning what's right for each person.

所以，重點其實是

要分辨出每個人適合什麼。

WPR: And what factors have you found contribute to that?

主持人：你認為那背後有什麼因素？

Maybe things from early in life or childhood

也許人生早期或童年時 有什麼因素會形塑

that might actually shape our ability to make these connections later in life?

我們後來建立這些連結的能力？

RW: Yes, so, many of our social skills we learn when we're growing up.

講者：是的，我們在成長 過程中會學習很多社交技能。

We learn it in our families,

我們在家中可以學到，

we learn it at school and on the playground.

在學校、在遊樂場可以學到。

They can be learned, and they can be improved

這些技能是可以學習和改善的,

as we get into adulthood.

長大成人後都還能。

They’re not set in stone once we’re done with childhood.

並不會在童年結束之後 就定型無法改變了。

So it's really important to see the ways that, you know,

所以，很重要的是

要了解什麼方式…… 就如同我剛給的一些建議，

just like some of the suggestions I made,

ways that you can practice getting better at this,

你可以練習哪些方法來更精通社交，

because it really pays off.

因為真的很值得。

But some people are not so good at this.

但有些人不擅長社交。

And they can have perfectly wonderful,

他們一樣可以有非常美好、 快樂、健康的人生，

happy, healthy lives

without being social butterflies and extroverts.

不見得要成為社交花蝴蝶、外向的人。

And I just want to name that

我只是想提出這一點， 以免大家離開時會心想：

so that people don't go away thinking,

"Gosh, if I'm not an extrovert, I'm out of luck."

「天，如果我不是外向的人， 我就太倒霉了。」

Not true at all.

完全不是這樣。

Many of our happiest people had quieter lives.

最快樂的人當中有許多 都過著比較安靜的生活。

WPR: And you know, I guess to the tips that you offered in the talk, you know,

主持人：我想，你在這場 演說中所提供的秘訣……

you talked about how we can build warm connections,

你談到我們要如何建立 溫暖的關係，能採取的步驟。

steps that we can take.

And this idea of social fitness.

還有社交適能的概念。

And so I'm curious how can we actually assess our social fitness,

所以我很好奇，我們實際上 要如何評估我們的社交適能？

and as you said, to sort of, understand what is right for us

以及，如你所言，要如何知道

擁有幾個朋友對我是最適合的？

in terms of how many friends to have.

And is it possible to sustain warm relationships

有沒有可能維持溫暖的關係，

if you aren't really intentional in thinking about your social fitness?

但不用真的很刻意去 思考你的社交適能？

RW: That question of how do we assess our social fitness,

講者：關於要如何評估 我們的社交適能這個問題，

it's really checking in and saying,

重點是要關心自己，問，

am I as connected as I would like to be

我與他人的連結有沒有 達到我想要的程度？

to other people?

And if I'm not, what am I missing?

如果沒達到，我缺了什麼？

So not all relationships provide us with the same stuff.

不同的關係提供給 我們的東西也有所不同。

Some relationships are relationships we have because they're fun,

我們維持某些關係是因為 它們很有趣，對吧？

you know?

他們是我想出去玩、 開趴時會找的人。

And so they're the people I like to go out and party with.

Some relationships are the relationships that help me when I'm scared or hurting

有些關係的功能則是

當我害怕、受傷，或擔心 某事的時候能協助我，

or worried about something.

And I need someone to talk things over with.

我需要找人談談時就會找這些人。

I need a sounding board, a good advisor.

我需要能給意見的人、好的顧問。

Some relationships are the people who, you know,

我和某些人建立關係則是因為

loan me tools when I need to fix something and I don't have the right tool

他們能在我沒有對的工具 來修東西時借我工具，

or give me a ride to the doctor.

或能開車載我去看醫生。

So part of it is checking in about, what am I missing?

所以，部分重點是要 關心自己缺了什麼？

And then seeing what might be possible

接著去了解怎樣才有可能

in terms of developing more of the relationships

發展更多關係，

that give us the things we want more of.

來給予我們更多我們想要的東西。

WPR: And along those same lines, TED Member Tiana wants to know:

主持人：針對同一個主題， TED 會員蒂安娜

想知道我們要如何定義 一段關係是否有意義？

How do we define if a relationship is actually meaningful or not?

I mean, it sounds like understanding what these voices are saying,

聽起來好像是去了解 那些聲音在說什麼，

but are there other things we should pay attention to, to know if it's valuable,

但是否要注意其他事項

才能知道這個連結 是否有價值，是否溫暖？

if this is a warm connection?

講者：好的，

RW: One way to think about it

其中一種看法：重點不在於 這段關係是否時時都很平順，

is not whether the relationship is smooth all the time,

but whether we feel that we can be authentic,

而是我們是否覺得我們能 表現我們的真實面，

we can be ourselves in a relationship.

在關係中能夠做自己。

And obviously, we won't be the same selves

很明顯在不同關係的自己也不同，

in a work relationship that we might be with our, you know, beloved sister,

比如在工作關係中的自己 和與親姐姐相處的自己就不同，

you know.

你知道的。

But still, can I be myself in the most essential ways?

不過，仍然，

在本質上我能不能做自己？

Can I express myself?

我能表達自己嗎？

And can the other person express themselves?

對方又能表現自己嗎？

Because I think that's where --

因為我認為那正是

what we really want is to feel known

我們真正想要的， 是感覺被認識、被看見，

and to feel seen

and not to feel like we are having to maintain a façade

而不是覺得我們必須要

維持一種表象來隱藏真正的自己。

that hides who we are.

And so the best relationships are those where we feel we can be ourselves.

所以，最佳的關係要能夠

讓我們感覺可以做自己。

WPR: And you talked about how, really, it's romantic relationships, friendships,

主持人：你剛才談到，事實上

愛情關係、友情、熟人，

acquaintances,

這些關係通通很重要。

I mean, all of these relationships matter.

But do you find that one of these is maybe more significant than the other,

但，你是否認為當中有 某一種比其他的都更重要？

or how do you look at them?

或者，你怎麼看待它們？

RW: I look at it in terms of the secure attachment we think about.

講者：我會從安全依附的角度來看。

Attachment is a word for being warmly, securely connected.

依附這個詞的意思是

擁有溫暖、安全的連結。

It’s the “Who can you call in the middle of the night if you’re sick or scared?”

也就是「當你大半夜感到 不舒服或害怕時能打給誰？」

所以我會從這樣的角度思考，

So I think of it in those terms,

not necessarily the person's role, defined role in our life,

不見得是這個人的角色， 在我們人生中被定義的角色，

like romantic partner or boss.

比如愛情伴侶，

或者老闆。

But it’s the “Does this person have my back?”

而是「這個人是否會挺我到底？」

And so that's, I think, the defining element

我想，這才是我們想要

在我們的世界中找到的決定性元素。

that we want to find somewhere in our world.

WPR: So we have so many member questions coming in, Bob,

主持人：鮑伯，我們收到了 一大堆來自會員的問題，

and I'm going to kind of go through a few more of them.

我要再提幾個出來。

So TED Member Nancy wants to know if you think it’s possible

TED 會員南西想要知道， 依你所見，是否有可能

for an endemically unhappy person at some point in life to obtain happiness.

感到不快樂的人會在 人生的某個時點取得快樂？

RW: Yes. And thank you for asking that question.

講者：是的，謝謝你問這個問題。

So we have a couple of life stories in our book,

在我們的書中有幾個人生故事，

the book contains real stories of real people.

書中講的是真人真事。

The names are disguised to protect confidentiality.

基於保密，人名有改過。

But some of those stories are of people who have big turnarounds late in life,

但其中有些故事

是到了人生後期才有大轉變的人。

people who were isolated and less happy

本來是孤立，不快樂的人，

and in their 60s found a whole community.

在六十多歲時竟找到了自己的團體。

One man found a community at a gym

有一名男子在健身房找到了 他根本不敢相信能找到的團體。

that he never dreamed he would find.

And so the message that we get from studying these thousands of lives is:

所以，我們研究這數千人的 人生所得到的訊息是：

it is never too late.

永不嫌晚。

And so don't assume that it's too late for you,

所以別假設對你已經太遲了，

even if you feel like you've not had good luck with this in the past.

即使你覺得自己在過去 沒這方面的好運。

WPR: Well, Bob, we're getting some questions about you.

主持人：鮑伯，我們收到 一些關於你的問題。

And I want to turn to you for a second.

我想暫時把話題轉向你一下。

And I'm curious how running this study has changed the way you approach life

我很好奇主持這項研究如何改變

你看待人生以及你自己 追求快樂的方式？

and your own pursuit of happiness.

RW: Oh, gosh.

講者：喔，天。

Well, one of the things it's helped me with is the idea

對我很有幫助的其中一個想法就是：

that everybody has struggles in their life.

每個人的人生中都有困難。

That has been so meaningful to me

那對我很有意義，因為，

because I can also look at the world and say,

不然我也可以看著世界，說：

"Gee, other people seem to have lives

「天，其他人似乎

that have it all figured out and perfect lives."

對什麼都不惑了，且人生圓滿。」

It is so helpful to know

很有幫助的是能夠知道

that there isn't a person on the planet

世界上沒有一個人

who doesn't have struggles.

沒有掙扎。

And it makes me feel less alone when I can recognize that.

當我能承認這一點， 就讓我覺得比較不孤獨。

And that's one of the reasons why I want to keep getting these messages out,

這也是在研究了數千人的人生之後，

我想不斷把這個訊息 傳遞出去的原因之一。

after having studied thousands of lives.

And I think the other thing that it's changed is my own priorities.

還有一點，就是改變了 我自己的優先順序。

So I realize,

我了解到，

OK, I can sit here this afternoon and edit another paper

好，今天下午我可以坐在這裡，

編輯另一篇論文，

or do more work,

或做更多工作，

or I can see my friend who I haven't seen in a month.

或者我可以去見 我一個月沒見到的朋友。

And so I’ve become more active in taking care of my relationships,

所以我變成會更主動

去照顧我的關係，

and it makes a big difference.

而那造成很大的不同。

So I would say that those are the two big things for me

所以，我會說，那是主持這項研究

that directing this study has changed about my life.

帶給我人生的兩大改變。

WPR: We have a question from TED Member Nesa.

主持人：我們收到 TED 會員妮莎問的一個問題：

They ask: “As a mother of two very young children,

我是兩個幼童的媽，

what advice do you have for parents to build strong,

對於建立堅固、健康的關係， 你會給父母什麼樣的建議？

healthy relationships,

now through adulthood?"

從現在一直到成年。

RW: For parents,

講者：針對父母，

it’s really helping your children to pay attention

重點是要協助你的孩子

去留意他們的感受，

to how they feel

並學習運用他們的感受，

and to learn to use their feelings with more choice.

搭配更多選擇來運用。

So learning to love what they love and hang on to what they love,

所以，學習去愛他們所愛，

且不放棄他們所愛， 即使不是很熱門的事物。

even if it's not so popular.

You know, I had a mother talk to me

曾經有一次，

有位母親告訴我，她的孩子真的很愛

about how her child really loved doing improv comedy.

表演即興喜劇。

And he’s only 12,

他才十二歲，

and his friends don't like that.

他的朋友不喜歡他這樣。

And so we talked about how do you help your child feel supported

所以我們談要如何協助孩子感受到

你支持他去愛他所愛 及去上即興課程，是吧？

in loving what he loves and taking an improv class, right?

So helping your kids learn that it's OK to love something

協助你的孩子學習了解

自己喜歡的事物和所屬團體中 其他孩子不同也沒關係，

that's not the same as all the other kids in their group

and keep loving what they love.

且要持續愛他們所愛的。

And helping kids learn that it’s OK to be unhappy

也要協助孩子學習了解 感到不快樂是沒關係的，

and that that will pass,

那會過去，

that feelings come and go.

感覺會出現也會消失。

That it’s OK to disagree.

且有歧見也沒關係。

Families can model,

家人、父母可以做孩子的榜樣。

parents can model for kids.

We can have disagreements.

我們可以有歧見。

We can work it out and and hold on to these good relationships

我們可以想辦法化解，

守護好這些好的關係，

even through disagreements.

即便有時也得走過歧見。

Those are some of the biggest lessons we can help our children with,

若想協助我們的孩子， 這些都是可以教他們的重點，

about how to use their feelings

教他們如何運用他們的感覺，

rather than kind of, be buffeted by their feelings

而不是被他們的感覺攻擊、支配。

and ruled by their feelings.

WPR: I'm curious just where you see the study going from here.

主持人：我很好奇，在你 看來研究接下來的方向是哪兒？

RW: We are collecting more data, even as we speak.

講者：我們在收集更多資料， 就連此刻都在收集。

We are collecting more information from the children.

我們在收集更多關於孩童的資訊。

Almost all the original participants have passed away,

幾乎所有的初始參與者都過世了，

but their children are all Baby Boomers, on average.

但平均來說，他們的孩子 都是在嬰兒潮時代出生。

And so we're collecting information,

所以我們在收集資訊，

including about what life was like during the pandemic.

包括疫情期間的生活是什麼樣子的。

Also collecting information about how they use social media,

也會收集他們如何 運用社群媒體的資訊，

which is something we've all been talking about a bit here.

這是我們在這裡有談到一點的主題。

And I think in terms of the future,

我想，關於未來，

we see ourselves as wanting to make our data available

我們認為我們會想要把我們的資料

to more and more researchers.

開放讓更多研究者取得。

So we want to collaborate, and we do collaborate,

我們想要合作，我們也確實 有和其他研究團體合作。

with other research groups.

We say, come in and use our data

我們說，來用我們的資料吧，

and ask new questions that we don’t even think to ask.

也來問一些我們可能 都沒想到要問的新問題。

Because we have this treasure trove of information about thousands of lives.

因為我們擁有數千人的 人生資訊，這是個寶庫。

And then we're going to make it publicly available on public websites,

接著，

我們會把這些資料放到 公共網站上讓大家能取得，

because, you know, much of our work

因為，我們的研究大部分

has been funded by the federal government,

都是由聯邦政府資助，

by NIH, with taxpayer money.

還有國家衛生研究所， 用的是納稅人的錢。

And so we feel a responsibility to make this information available

所以我們覺得我們有責任

讓其他研究者能夠取得這些資訊，

to other researchers

who want to ask their own questions about our data.

讓他們用我們的資料， 問他們自己想問的問題。

WPR: Well, Bob, you’ve shared so many great things with us.

主持人：鮑伯，你和我們 分享了好多好棒的內容。

You know, I feel like if people were listening

我覺得，如果大家聽了

and trying to absorb all of it,

且試著盡可能全部吸收，

and at the very end of this conversation

在這場談話的最後，

you want just one nugget of information, that if you missed everything,

如果你只能選一項珍貴的訊息，

若錯過了所有這些，你希望 大家至少在談話的最後能夠

what is the one thing that you want everyone to walk away from,

at the end of this conversation?

帶什麼訊息離開？

RW: That if you want to make one choice today

講者：如果你今天想要做一個選擇，

that will make you healthier and happier,

來讓你自己變得更健康快樂，

it is to pay attention to improving your connections with other people.

那就是要注意改善你和他人的連結。

That that is such a good investment, and it will pay off for years to come.

那是非常好的投資，

且在接下來的許多年都會有好報酬。

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〔成為 TED 會員！〕

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