How we need to remake the internet | Jaron Lanier

430,989 views ・ 2018-05-03

TED


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譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 易帆 余
00:12
Back in the 1980s, actually, I gave my first talk at TED,
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我的第一場 TED 演講 是在 1980 年代,
00:16
and I brought some of the very, very first public demonstrations
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那時我把最早最早的一些
00:21
of virtual reality ever to the TED stage.
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虛擬實境展示帶到 TED 舞台上。
00:26
And at that time, we knew that we were facing a knife-edge future
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當時,大家都知道我們 正在面對一個不確定的未來、
00:33
where the technology we needed,
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在那個未來世界裡, 有我們需要的科技、
00:38
the technology we loved,
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喜愛的科技,
00:40
could also be our undoing.
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但也有可能是毀滅我們的科技。
00:43
We knew that if we thought of our technology
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我們知道,如果我們把科技視為
00:47
as a means to ever more power,
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通往更多權力的手段、
00:50
if it was just a power trip, we'd eventually destroy ourselves.
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玩權弄勢的工具,
我們最終就會摧毀我們自己。
00:54
That's what happens
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00:55
when you're on a power trip and nothing else.
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如果你只想利用科技 來玩權弄勢就會這樣。
00:59
So the idealism
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在那時候,
01:02
of digital culture back then
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數位文化的理想主義
01:07
was all about starting with that recognition of the possible darkness
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談的都是,一開始就要我們認清 科技可能會帶來的黑暗面,
01:12
and trying to imagine a way to transcend it
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並嘗試用美及創意的方式
01:15
with beauty and creativity.
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來突破這些黑暗面。
01:19
I always used to end my early TED Talks with a rather horrifying line, which is,
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早期在 TED 演講時,我的結尾 總是一句蠻嚇人的台詞:
01:26
"We have a challenge.
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「我們有一個挑戰。
01:30
We have to create a culture around technology
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我們得為科技創造出一種文化,
01:34
that is so beautiful, so meaningful,
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一種相當美麗、有意義的文化、
01:38
so deep, so endlessly creative,
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一種相當深刻、有無盡創意、
01:40
so filled with infinite potential
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充滿無限潛力的科技文化,
01:44
that it draws us away from committing mass suicide."
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這樣的科技文化才能讓我們 避免掉集體自殺。」
01:48
So we talked about extinction as being one and the same
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我們把人類滅絕當作一回事, 就如同我們在談,
01:54
as the need to create an alluring, infinitely creative future.
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我們需要創造出一個誘人且 有著無限創意未來一樣的重要。
01:59
And I still believe that that alternative of creativity
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我仍然相信,創新的另一面
02:05
as an alternative to death
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有可能就是死亡,
02:07
is very real and true,
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這個說法是非常真實的,
02:09
maybe the most true thing there is.
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也許是世上最真實的。
02:11
In the case of virtual reality --
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就虛擬實境來說,
02:13
well, the way I used to talk about it
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我以前談論它的方式,
02:16
is that it would be something like
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會把它說成像是
02:18
what happened when people discovered language.
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人類剛發明語言時一樣。
02:21
With language came new adventures, new depth, new meaning,
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隨著語言,出現了新的冒險、 新的深度、新的意義、
02:26
new ways to connect, new ways to coordinate,
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新的連結方式、新的協調方式、
02:28
new ways to imagine, new ways to raise children,
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新的想像方式、 新的養育孩子方式;
02:32
and I imagined, with virtual reality, we'd have this new thing
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我在想,有了虛擬實境, 我們就會創造出一種
02:36
that would be like a conversation
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新的對話方式,
02:38
but also like waking-state intentional dreaming.
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但又像是在清醒的狀態下, 刻意作夢一樣。
02:41
We called it post-symbolic communication,
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我們稱之為「後象徵性溝通」,
02:44
because it would be like just directly making the thing you experienced
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因為那就像你直接的親身體驗,
02:49
instead of indirectly making symbols to refer to things.
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而不只是間接地看到事物的表象。
02:53
It was a beautiful vision, and it's one I still believe in,
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那是個很美的遠景, 且是我現在仍然相信的遠景,
02:57
and yet, haunting that beautiful vision
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但,圍繞在這美好景像的黑暗面
03:01
was the dark side of how it could also turn out.
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也有可能會發生。
03:04
And I suppose I could mention
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我想,我可以談談,
03:09
from one of the very earliest computer scientists,
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很早期的一位電腦科學家,
03:12
whose name was Norbert Wiener,
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他的名字叫諾伯特維納,
03:14
and he wrote a book back in the '50s, from before I was even born,
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在五○年代我都還沒 出生時,他寫了一本書,
03:18
called "The Human Use of Human Beings."
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書名叫《人有人的用處》。
03:21
And in the book, he described the potential
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在書中,他描述到我們是有可能
03:25
to create a computer system that would be gathering data from people
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會創造出一個 收集人類資料的電腦,
03:32
and providing feedback to those people in real time
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並提供即時回應給人類的電腦,
03:35
in order to put them kind of partially, statistically, in a Skinner box,
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為了統計這些行為, 這有點像是把人類放到施金納箱中
03:40
in a behaviorist system,
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一種控制動物行為的實驗箱,
03:43
and he has this amazing line where he says,
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他說了一句很棒的話,
03:45
one could imagine, as a thought experiment --
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大家可以想像有一種思想的實驗──
03:48
and I'm paraphrasing, this isn't a quote --
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我現在要講的是改述過的釋義, 不是引述──
03:51
one could imagine a global computer system
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大家可以想像, 有一個全球的電腦系統,
03:54
where everybody has devices on them all the time,
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在此系統中,每個人身上 時時刻刻都有一些裝置,
03:57
and the devices are giving them feedback based on what they did,
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這些裝置會根據 他們的行為給出回饋,
04:00
and the whole population
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而在系統裡的全部人,
04:02
is subject to a degree of behavior modification.
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都會受到某種程度的行為修正。
04:05
And such a society would be insane,
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這樣子的社會簡直太瘋狂了,
04:09
could not survive, could not face its problems.
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這樣的社會無法生存, 無法面對它的問題。
04:12
And then he says, but this is only a thought experiment,
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接著,他說,但這只是個思想實驗,
04:15
and such a future is technologically infeasible.
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將來要把人類丟到實驗箱, 以科學的角度而言,我們也辦不到。
04:18
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:19
And yet, of course, it's what we have created,
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但,沒錯,我們人類現在 就已經陷入這樣的窘境,
04:22
and it's what we must undo if we are to survive.
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而如果人類想要生存, 就要趕緊回頭。
04:27
So --
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所以,
04:28
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
04:32
I believe that we made a very particular mistake,
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我認為,我們犯了一個 非常特殊的錯誤,
04:38
and it happened early on,
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它在很早就發生了,
04:40
and by understanding the mistake we made,
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而透過了解我們所犯下的錯誤,
04:42
we can undo it.
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我們就能將它還原。
04:44
It happened in the '90s,
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事情發生在九○年代,
04:47
and going into the turn of the century,
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正要進入世紀的轉折點,
04:50
and here's what happened.
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發生的經過如下。
04:53
Early digital culture,
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早期的數位文化,
04:54
and indeed, digital culture to this day,
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當然,還有至今的數位文化,
04:59
had a sense of, I would say, lefty, socialist mission about it,
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有一種……我會說是左翼、 社會主義使命的感覺,
05:05
that unlike other things that have been done,
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這不像其它已經有的東西,
05:08
like the invention of books,
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比如書籍的發明,
05:09
everything on the internet must be purely public,
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在網路上的一切都 必須要是完全公開的,
05:13
must be available for free,
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必須要可以免費使用,
05:15
because if even one person cannot afford it,
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因為,如果有一個人負擔不起,
05:18
then that would create this terrible inequity.
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那就會造成很糟的不平等。
05:21
Now of course, there's other ways to deal with that.
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當然,有其它方法 可以處理這個問題。
05:24
If books cost money, you can have public libraries.
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如果書籍要錢, 你可以用公共圖書館。
05:27
And so forth.
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諸如此類。
05:28
But we were thinking, no, no, no, this is an exception.
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但我們在想,不、不、不, 這是個例外。
05:31
This must be pure public commons, that's what we want.
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它必須要是單純地能讓公眾 使用的,我們希望如此。
05:35
And so that spirit lives on.
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如此,精神才能傳承下去。
05:38
You can experience it in designs like the Wikipedia, for instance,
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你可以體驗這些設計, 比如像維基百科
及其它許多這類的設計。
05:42
many others.
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05:43
But at the same time,
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但同時,
05:45
we also believed, with equal fervor,
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我們也能帶著同等的熱情,
05:48
in this other thing that was completely incompatible,
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相信另外一種完全不一樣的事情,
05:52
which is we loved our tech entrepreneurs.
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那就是,我們愛我們的科技企業家。
05:55
We loved Steve Jobs; we loved this Nietzschean myth
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我們愛史帝夫賈伯斯, 我們愛這種尼采般的神話,
05:59
of the techie who could dent the universe.
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這些能改變世界的科技天才。
06:03
Right?
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對嗎?
06:04
And that mythical power still has a hold on us, as well.
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而那神話般的力量 仍能持續地獲得我們的支持。
06:10
So you have these two different passions,
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所以,你會有這兩種不同的熱忱,
06:14
for making everything free
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一種是讓一切都免費,
06:16
and for the almost supernatural power of the tech entrepreneur.
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另一種是科技企業家的力量, 近乎超自然的力量。
06:21
How do you celebrate entrepreneurship when everything's free?
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但當一切都是免費時, 你要如何讚頌企業家精神?
06:26
Well, there was only one solution back then,
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在當時,只有一個解決方案,
06:29
which was the advertising model.
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那就是廣告獲利模式。
06:31
And so therefore, Google was born free, with ads,
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因此,Google 剛開始 是免費的,但附帶廣告。
06:35
Facebook was born free, with ads.
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臉書剛開始也是 免費的,但附帶廣告。
06:39
Now in the beginning, it was cute,
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一開始,這還蠻討喜的,
06:43
like with the very earliest Google.
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就像最早期的 Google。
06:45
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
06:46
The ads really were kind of ads.
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廣告真的就只是廣告。
06:49
They would be, like, your local dentist or something.
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廣告可能就是你當地的牙醫之類的。
06:51
But there's thing called Moore's law
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但有樣東西叫做摩爾定律,
06:53
that makes the computers more and more efficient and cheaper.
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它讓電腦越來越高效 也越來越便宜。
06:57
Their algorithms get better.
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演算法也越來越強。
06:58
We actually have universities where people study them,
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在大學裡真的有人在研究它們,
07:01
and they get better and better.
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且它們越來越好。
07:03
And the customers and other entities who use these systems
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客戶和使用這些系統的其它機構
07:07
just got more and more experienced and got cleverer and cleverer.
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變得越來越有經驗, 且越來越聰明。
07:11
And what started out as advertising
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一開始本來只是廣告,
07:14
really can't be called advertising anymore.
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現在真的不能再稱為廣告了。
07:16
It turned into behavior modification,
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它轉變成了「行為修改」。
07:19
just as Norbert Wiener had worried it might.
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這就是諾伯特維納所擔心的。
07:24
And so I can't call these things social networks anymore.
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所以我已經無法再稱 這些東西為社交網路了。
07:28
I call them behavior modification empires.
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我稱它們為「行為修改帝國」。
07:32
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
07:34
And I refuse to vilify the individuals.
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我是反對誹謗個人的。
07:39
I have dear friends at these companies,
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在這些公司中有我親愛的朋友,
07:41
sold a company to Google, even though I think it's one of these empires.
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我們也曾把一間公司賣給 Google, 即使我認為 Google 也是帝國之一。
07:46
I don't think this is a matter of bad people who've done a bad thing.
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我不認為這是壞人做了壞事的問題。
07:51
I think this is a matter of a globally tragic,
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我認為這一場全球性的悲劇,
07:55
astoundingly ridiculous mistake,
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非常荒謬的錯誤,
08:00
rather than a wave of evil.
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而不是邪惡的浪潮。
08:04
Let me give you just another layer of detail
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讓我再做深一層的細節說明,
08:07
into how this particular mistake functions.
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解釋這個錯誤是如何產生的。
08:11
So with behaviorism,
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行為主義是這樣的,
08:14
you give the creature, whether it's a rat or a dog or a person,
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不論是哪種生物, 比如老鼠、狗,或是人,
08:19
little treats and sometimes little punishments
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它會根據生物的行為
回饋一點點甜頭或懲罰,
08:22
as feedback to what they do.
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08:24
So if you have an animal in a cage, it might be candy and electric shocks.
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如果你把一隻動物放在籠子中, 你給牠的可能就是糖果和電擊。
08:30
But if you have a smartphone,
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但如果你有一支智慧手機,
08:33
it's not those things, it's symbolic punishment and reward.
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手機雖然不像那些實驗箱, 但也有象徵性的懲罰和獎賞。
08:40
Pavlov, one of the early behaviorists,
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巴夫洛夫是最早的行為學家之一,
08:42
demonstrated the famous principle.
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他提出了著名的原則。
08:45
You could train a dog to salivate just with the bell, just with the symbol.
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你只要用一個鈴噹或手勢, 就可以訓練一隻狗流口水。
08:49
So on social networks,
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在社交網路上,
08:51
social punishment and social reward function as the punishment and reward.
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有人會酸你或給你按讚 就像懲罰及獎賞一樣。
08:56
And we all know the feeling of these things.
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我們都知道懲罰和獎賞的感受如何。
08:58
You get this little thrill --
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你會有點興奮,
08:59
"Somebody liked my stuff and it's being repeated."
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「有人喜歡我的東西, 且重複按讚。」
09:02
Or the punishment: "Oh my God, they don't like me,
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或被懲罰,「喔,天啊,他們不喜歡我,
09:04
maybe somebody else is more popular, oh my God."
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也許別人比較受歡迎,喔,天啊。」
09:06
So you have those two very common feelings,
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你會有這兩種很常見的感受,
09:09
and they're doled out in such a way that you get caught in this loop.
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就這樣一點一點地 把你困在這迴圈中。
09:12
As has been publicly acknowledged by many of the founders of the system,
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這個系統的許多創始者 都已經公開承認這個現象,
09:16
everybody knew this is what was going on.
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人人都知道發生的狀況就是如此。
09:19
But here's the thing:
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但,重點是:
09:21
traditionally, in the academic study of the methods of behaviorism,
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傳統行為主義方法的學術研究
09:26
there have been comparisons of positive and negative stimuli.
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比較正面和負面的刺激。
09:32
In this setting, a commercial setting,
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在這樣的前提下, 有商業行為的前提下,
09:34
there's a new kind of difference
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會產生一種新的差異,
09:36
that has kind of evaded the academic world for a while,
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有好一段時間它都沒被學術界發現,
09:39
and that difference is that whether positive stimuli
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那差異就是,在不同的情況下,
正面刺激是否比 負面刺激更有效之類的....
09:43
are more effective than negative ones in different circumstances,
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09:46
the negative ones are cheaper.
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結果,負面刺激比較便宜,
09:48
They're the bargain stimuli.
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用負面刺激很划算。
09:50
So what I mean by that is it's much easier
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我這麼說的意思是
失去信任比建立信任容易。
09:56
to lose trust than to build trust.
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09:59
It takes a long time to build love.
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我們要花很長的時間才能建立「愛」。
10:02
It takes a short time to ruin love.
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但只要很短暫的時間就能毀了「愛」。
10:05
Now the customers of these behavior modification empires
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這些「行為修改帝國」的客戶
深陷在非常快的迴圈中。
10:10
are on a very fast loop.
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10:11
They're almost like high-frequency traders.
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他們幾乎就像是股票的高頻交易者。
10:13
They're getting feedbacks from their spends
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他們從客戶的消費和動作獲得回饋,
10:15
or whatever their activities are if they're not spending,
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從而知道哪些效果好,
10:18
and they see what's working, and then they do more of that.
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就會更那樣做。
10:21
And so they're getting the quick feedback,
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因為那樣,他們會快速得到回饋,
10:23
which means they're responding more to the negative emotions,
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也就是說他們對 負面情緒比較有反應,
10:26
because those are the ones that rise faster, right?
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因為這些負面刺激的回饋, 比正向刺激來得快,對吧?
10:30
And so therefore, even well-intentioned players
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因此,即使是出發點很好的業者,
10:34
who think all they're doing is advertising toothpaste
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他們認為他們所做的 不過就是為牙膏打廣告,
10:37
end up advancing the cause of the negative people,
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結果卻是協助造成了這社會上
10:40
the negative emotions, the cranks,
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充滿了負面情緒的人、怪胎、
10:42
the paranoids,
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偏執狂、
10:44
the cynics, the nihilists.
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憤世嫉俗、對人生無望的人。
10:47
Those are the ones who get amplified by the system.
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系統會放大的就是這些人。
10:50
And you can't pay one of these companies to make the world suddenly nice
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你無法支付其中任何一家公司
讓世界突然變好或民主進步,
10:56
and improve democracy
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10:57
nearly as easily as you can pay to ruin those things.
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無法像破壞這些東西那樣容易。
11:01
And so this is the dilemma we've gotten ourselves into.
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所以,是我們自己 造成了這樣的困境。
11:05
The alternative is to turn back the clock, with great difficulty,
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替代方案就是 盡全力地讓時光倒流,
11:11
and remake that decision.
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然後重新做決定。
11:13
Remaking it would mean two things.
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重新做決定意味著兩件事。
11:18
It would mean first that many people, those who could afford to,
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第一,許多負擔得起這些東西的人
11:21
would actually pay for these things.
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就真的得要為這些東西付錢。
11:24
You'd pay for search, you'd pay for social networking.
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搜尋要錢、用社交網路要錢。
11:28
How would you pay? Maybe with a subscription fee,
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你要如何付錢?也許是付訂閱費,
11:32
maybe with micro-payments as you use them.
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也許是在使用時支付極低的費用。
11:34
There's a lot of options.
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有許多選擇。
11:36
If some of you are recoiling, and you're thinking,
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如果有些人打退堂鼓,在想:
11:39
"Oh my God, I would never pay for these things.
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「天啊,我絕不會為這些東西付錢。
11:41
How could you ever get anyone to pay?"
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你怎麼能要任何人付錢?」
11:43
I want to remind you of something that just happened.
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那麼我要提醒你一件剛發生的事。
11:46
Around this same time
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之前 Google、臉書這些公司
11:48
that companies like Google and Facebook were formulating their free idea,
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在發想他們的免費想法時,
11:54
a lot of cyber culture also believed that in the future,
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有許多網路文化也相信,在未來,
11:59
televisions and movies would be created in the same way,
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我們也會用同樣的方式 來製作電視和電影,
12:02
kind of like the Wikipedia.
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有點像維基百科。
12:04
But then, companies like Netflix, Amazon, HBO,
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但,接著,像網飛、 亞馬遜、HBO 這類公司
12:09
said, "Actually, you know, subscribe. We'll give you give you great TV."
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比如:「你只要訂閱我們, 我們就給你很好的節目。」
12:13
And it worked!
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結果很有效!
12:14
We now are in this period called "peak TV," right?
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我們現在處在所謂的 「電視節目選擇超多」的時期,對吧?
12:18
So sometimes when you pay for stuff, things get better.
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所以,有時為東西付錢反而是好事。
12:22
We can imagine a hypothetical --
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我們可以想像一個假設性的──
12:25
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
12:29
We can imagine a hypothetical world of "peak social media."
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我們可以想像一個 社交媒體超多的世界。
12:33
What would that be like?
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那會是什麼樣子?
12:34
It would mean when you get on, you can get really useful,
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那意味著,當你上社交媒體, 你能得到非常有用、
12:37
authoritative medical advice instead of cranks.
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有權威性的醫療建議, 而不是亂七八糟的垃圾。
12:41
It could mean when you want to get factual information,
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也可能意味著, 當你想要取得真實資訊時,
12:44
there's not a bunch of weird, paranoid conspiracy theories.
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不會得到一堆怪異、 偏執的陰謀論。
12:47
We can imagine this wonderful other possibility.
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我們可以想像這美好的 「另一種可能性」。
12:52
Ah.
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啊。
12:53
I dream of it. I believe it's possible.
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我夢想它能成真。 我相信它能成真。
12:55
I'm certain it's possible.
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我很確定它能成真。
12:58
And I'm certain that the companies, the Googles and the Facebooks,
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我很確定像 Google 及臉書這些公司
13:03
would actually do better in this world.
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他們會做得更好。
13:05
I don't believe we need to punish Silicon Valley.
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我不認為我們需要去懲罰矽谷。
13:09
We just need to remake the decision.
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我們只需要重新決定。
13:12
Of the big tech companies,
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在大型科技公司中,
13:14
it's really only two that depend on behavior modification and spying
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其實只有兩間 仰賴行為修改和暗中監視
13:20
as their business plan.
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做為它們的事業計畫。
13:21
It's Google and Facebook.
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就是 Google 和臉書。
13:23
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
13:24
And I love you guys.
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我愛你們。
13:26
Really, I do. Like, the people are fantastic.
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真的,我愛你們。那些人都很棒。
13:30
I want to point out, if I may,
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如果可以的話,我想聲明這點。
13:33
if you look at Google,
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比如說 Google,
13:34
they can propagate cost centers endlessly with all of these companies,
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他們可以和這些公司 無限地將成本中心分散出去,
13:39
but they cannot propagate profit centers.
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但他們無法將利益中心散播出去。
13:41
They cannot diversify, because they're hooked.
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他們無法多樣化, 因為他們被困住了。
13:45
They're hooked on this model, just like their own users.
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他們被固定在這個模式上, 就如同他們的使用者一樣。
13:47
They're in the same trap as their users,
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他們和他們的使用者 掉到了同樣的困境中;
13:50
and you can't run a big corporation that way.
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但是大型的企業不能那樣經營。
13:52
So this is ultimately totally in the benefit of the shareholders
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因為,他們最終追求的是股東的利益,
13:56
and other stakeholders of these companies.
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這些公司的股東權益。
13:58
It's a win-win solution.
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這樣才是雙贏的解決方案。
14:01
It'll just take some time to figure it out.
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只是要花些時間就能想通這點。
14:03
A lot of details to work out,
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有很多細節需要考量,
14:05
totally doable.
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完全是可行的。
14:07
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
14:10
I don't believe our species can survive unless we fix this.
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我認為若不解決這個問題, 人類就無法生存。
14:14
We cannot have a society
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我們不能活在這樣的社會:
14:16
in which, if two people wish to communicate,
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如果兩個人想要溝通,
14:19
the only way that can happen is if it's financed by a third person
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唯一可能發生的方式是
14:22
who wishes to manipulate them.
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由想要操縱他們的第三方提供資金。
14:25
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
14:35
(Applause ends)
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14:36
In the meantime, if the companies won't change,
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到那時候,如果這些公司仍不改變,
14:39
delete your accounts, OK?
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刪除你的帳號,好嗎?
14:41
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
14:42
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
14:43
That's enough for now.
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我就講到這邊。
14:45
Thank you so much.
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非常謝謝。
14:46
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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