How to Close the Authority Gap | Mary Ann Sieghart | TED

翻译人员: Yip Yan Yeung 校对人员: Yanyan Hong

At a conference a few years ago,

几年前的一次会议上，

a man asked me what I did.

一位男士问我做过些什么。

And I led a portfolio life,

我的过往经历丰富多彩，

so I just rattled off a list and I said,

所以我就说出了一大串，说道：

“Well, I write a political column for ‘The Independent’ newspaper.

“我在为《独立报》 撰写一档政治专栏。

I make radio programs for the BBC.

我为英国广播公司制作广播节目。

I chair a think tank.

我是一家智囊机构的主席。

I sit on a couple of commercial boards.

我是几家商业董事会的成员。

I’m on the council of Tate Modern,

我是泰特现代美术馆的理事会成员，

and I am on the content board of Ofcom,

也是我们的广播监管机构 英国通信管理局的内容委员会成员。”

our broadcasting regulator.

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）

To which he replied, "Wow, you're a busy little girl."

他回答说：“哇， 你真是个忙碌的小姑娘。”

Audience: Whoa!

观众：哇！

MAS: I was about 50, older than our Prime Minister.

MAS：我当时大约 50 岁， 比我们的首相大。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

This is a classic example of what I call the “authority gap,”

这是我所谓的 “职权缺口”的经典案例，

the way we still take women less seriously than men.

我们对女性的重视程度 仍然不如男性。

We're still more reluctant to accord authority to women.

我们仍然不愿赋予女性权力。

We still assume a man knows what he's talking about

我们仍然默认 男士知道自己在说些什么，

until he proves otherwise.

直到他证明情况并非如此。

While for a woman, it's all too often the other way round.

而对于女性来说， 情况往往恰恰相反。

Research shows that men have six times more influence in group discussions

研究表明，男性在小组讨论中的影响力

than women.

是女性的六倍。

Women are twice as likely as men

女性比起男性，有两倍多的可能性

to say they have to provide evidence of their competence,

会说她们必须提供能力的证明，

or that people are surprised at their abilities.

不然人们就难以置信她们的能力。

And women of color are much more likely than white women to say this.

有色人种的女性 比白人女性更有可能会这样说。

If you're working-class or disabled, the gap gets bigger still.

如果你是工人阶级或残障人士， 缺口还会更大。

Basically, the farther we are from the white, male, middle class default,

我们离“白人、男性、中产阶级” 这一标杆越远，

the wider the authority gap is.

职权缺口就越大。

I bet every woman listening has a tale to tell

我敢打赌，每一位在座的女士 都能讲出自己被低估、

about being underestimated,

ignored, patronized,

忽视、居高临下、

interrupted or talked over,

打断或抢话的故事，

challenged or mistaken for someone more junior, right?

质疑或被误认为 是更低职级的人，对吧？

In fact, it doesn't matter if you are a president of a country,

其实无论你是一个国家的总统，

the CEO of a huge corporation

一家大公司的首席执行官，

or a justice of the US Supreme Court.

还是美国最高法院的法官， 都无济于事。

Female justices get interrupted three times more than male ones,

女法官被打断的次数 是男法官的三倍，

96 percent of the time by men.

96% 是被男性打断的。

If you still need proof though,

如果你仍然需要证据，

a great test is to talk to people who’ve lived as both a man and a woman.

那么一个很好的测试方法就是 和一位做过男性也做过女性的人交流。

Because they’re exactly the same person with the same ability, intelligence,

因为他们是完全同一个人， 具有相同的能力、智力、

personality, experience.

性格和经历。

And if they're treated quite differently after they transition,

如果他们在转变后 受到的待遇完全不同，

that must be because of their gender.

那一定是因为他们的性别。

As scientists would say,

正如科学家所说，

we've controlled for all the other variables

我们已经控制了所有其他变量，

and isolated the only one that matters:

并隔离了唯一关键的变量：

whether they're seen as male or female.

他们被视为男性还是女性。

While I was researching the authority gap,

在我研究职权缺口时，

I came across two Stanford science professors

我遇到了两位斯坦福的理科教授，

who happened to transition at the same time in different directions.

他们刚好向着相反的性别转变。

Ben Barres, who was a neuroscientist,

本·巴雷斯（Ben Barres） 是一位神经科学家，

was astonished by the difference it made to his life

当他开始以男性身份生活后，

once he started living as a man.

他对这个转变为他的生活 带来的变化感到震惊。

"I've had the thought a million times," he said.

他说：“我已经这么想了 成千上万次了。

"I'm taken more seriously."

人们更把我当回事儿了。”

An academic who didn't know his history,

有人听到一位不了解 他的过往的学者

was overheard after one of his seminars saying,

在他的一场研讨会之后说：

"Oh, Ben Barris gave a great seminar today.

“哦，本·巴里斯 今天举办了一场精彩的研讨会。

But then his work's much better than his sister's."

但他的成果比他姐妹的好多了。”

Audience: (Gasps)

观众：（深吸气）

MAS: Right?

MAS：对吧？

Meanwhile, Joan Roughgarden, who is an evolutionary biologist,

与此同时，进化生物学家 琼·罗夫加登（Joan Roughgarden）

told me that when she was still living as a man,

告诉我，当她还是男性身份时，

she felt like she was on this conveyor belt to success.

她感觉自己就像是 踏上了通往成功的传送带。

Her pay kept going up,

她的工资不断增加，

she kept getting promoted,

不断获得晋升，

when she spoke, people listened.

当她说话时，人们会倾听。

Once she started living as a woman,

一旦她开始以女性身份生活，

all that changed.

一切都变了。

So she was interrupted, she was challenged,

她被打断了，她受到了质疑，

she was personally attacked.

她遭到了人身攻击。

She'd make a point and no one took any notice until a man repeated it.

她提出一个观点，直到一个男人 重复了这个观点才有人注意到。

"At first," she said, "I was amused.

她说：“一开始我觉得很好玩。

I thought, well, if women are discriminated against,

我想，好吧，如果女性受到歧视，

I'm darn well going to be discriminated against the same way."

我也肯定会被这么歧视。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And then she said,

然后她说：

"Well, the thrill of that has worn off, I can tell you."

“好吧，我可以告诉你， 那种快感已经消失了。”

Her conclusion, like mine,

她的结论和我的结论一样：

was that men are assumed to be competent until they prove otherwise.

男性被默认为很有能力， 除非他们证明情况并非如此。

Women are assumed to be incompetent until they prove otherwise.

女性被默认为能力不足， 除非她们也证明情况并非如此。

Obviously I’d like to do something about this,

显然我想为此做点什么，

but what’s in it for men?

但是这对男性有什么好处？

Well, one of the most encouraging things I found

我在研究职权缺口时 发现的最令人鼓舞的一件事情是

while researching the authority gap

was that narrowing the gap isn't like a seesaw,

弥合缺口不像跷跷板，

in which as women rise, men just automatically fall.

女性的崛起代表男性自动下降。

I mean, there might be the odd occasion when,

可能会有一种奇怪的情况，

if you're a man in direct competition with a woman

如果你是一个与女性 进行直接竞争的男性，

and the bias against her is dissolved,

对她的偏见消失了，

she might just beat you on merit.

她可能会凭实力击败你。

But in almost every aspect of your life,

但是，在生活的几乎方方面面，

greater gender equality is likely to make you happier, healthier

更多的性别平等 可能会让你更快乐、更健康、

and more satisfied.

更满意。

There's been some fascinating academic research

有一些有意思的学术研究表明，

showing that both in more gender-equal countries and US states

无论是在性别更平等的 国家和美国各州，

and in more equal straight relationships,

还是在更加平等的异性关系中，

not only are the women happier and healthier,

女性不仅更快乐、更健康，

which you'd expect, less resentful, less exhausted,

可以想见，更少怨怼，更少疲惫，

they feel more part of a team.

更有归属感。

And the children are happier and healthier.

孩子们也更快乐、更健康。

They do better at school,

他们在学校的表现更好，

they get on much better with their dads,

和父亲相处得更好，

they have fewer behavioral difficulties.

行为困难也更少。

But more surprisingly, perhaps,

但也许更令人惊讶的是，

the men themselves are happier and healthier.

男性也更快乐、更健康。

So they're twice is likely to say they're satisfied with their lives,

他们有两倍的可能性 会表示对自己的生活满意，

half as likely to be depressed.

感到沮丧的可能性只有一半。

They tend to smoke less, drink less,

他们会减少吸烟，减少饮酒，

sleep better, take fewer drugs.

睡得更好，服用更少的药物。

And here's the absolute clincher:

还有一个绝杀：

they get more frequent and better sex.

他们的性生活频率更高， 质量更好。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So if it's in all our interests,

如果这些都是我们想要的，

what can we do to close the authority gap?

我们该做些什么来缩小职权缺口呢？

Well, I counted the other day,

前几天我数了一下，

I've come up with 140 solutions.

我想出了 140 个解决方案。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

You'll be glad to hear I'm not going to share them all with you today,

你一定会很高兴我今天不打算 把它们全部分享给大家，

but I'm just going to leave you with a few ideas to take away.

但我只想给你留下一些想法以供借鉴。

I’m always asked, “OK, so what should women do?”

我总是被问到： “女性应该怎么做呢？”

But it's not women we need to fix, right?

但是我们要修正的不是女性，对吧？

It's how we all perceive and react to and interact with women.

这就是我们看待女性、 应对女性、与女性互动的方式。

We need to make changes to ourselves, to our workplaces

我们需要改变自己、 职场和周围的世界。

and to the world around us.

Even women are biased against other women.

即使是女性也对其他女性有偏见。

A few years ago in Britain,

几年前，在英国，

we had a female leader of a political party

有一个政党的女性领导人，

who had a high voice and sounded almost childish.

她的音调很高，还有娃娃音。

And when she came on the radio,

当她上电台节目时，

I'd find it quite hard to take her seriously.

我发现我很难正视她。

But as soon as I had that reflex reaction, I'd say to myself, stop it!

但是我一出现这种条件反射， 我就对自己说：停下！

Listen to the content of what she's saying,

倾听她所说的内容，

and don't judge her by the pitch of her voice.

不要因为她的音调评判她。

We all need to notice when our brains are trying to trick us like that.

我们都得注意我们的大脑 会这么欺骗我们。

It can also help to flip things around.

如果能反过来想一想，也有帮助。

To ask ourselves, would I have thought that or said that or done that

问问自己，如果这个人 是个男人而不是女人，

我会这么想、 这么说、这么做吗？

if this person had been a man rather than a woman?

Would I have mistaken that male CEO for his assistant?

我会把那位男性 CEO 误认成他的助理吗？

Or would I have called a 50-year-old man “a busy little boy?”

我会把一位 50 岁的男性 叫成“忙碌的小男孩”吗？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为。

When we're at work, we can actively affirm what a woman says,

当我们在工作时， 我们可以积极地认可一位女性说的话，

as long as it's interesting.

只要她说的话是有趣的。

Research shows that even if women make up 40 percent of a group,

研究表明，即使女性 占一个群体的 40％，

they're half as likely as men to gain approval from it

她们获得该群体认可的可能性 也只有男性的一半，

and much more likely to be interrupted.

而且被打断的可能性要高得多。

If Evie makes a point at a meeting,

如果伊薇在会议上提出了观点，

and no one takes a blind bit of notice until Peter repeats it ten minutes later

没人正眼瞅它一眼， 直到彼得在十分钟后重复了这个观点，

and it's treated like the Second Coming,

反而她的观点被当作了跟风，

we can say to Peter, "Oh, I'm so glad you agree with what Evie said earlier."

我们可以对彼得说：“哦，我很高兴 你同意伊薇之前所说的话。”

If Peter interrupts Rosa --

如果彼得打断罗莎——

(Applause)

（掌声）

If Peter interrupts Rosa, we can say, "Hang on a minute.

如果彼得打断罗莎， 我们可以说：“等一下。

I was really interested in what Rosa was saying there."

我对罗莎刚才在说的话很感兴趣。”

And what can employers do?

雇主能做些什么？

Well, the first thing they must do

他们必须做的第一件事

is to make sure that they genuinely are hiring and promoting on merit.

是确保他们真正 按实力招聘和晋升员工。

One study found that 70 percent of men

一项研究发现，70％ 的男性

will rate a man more highly than a woman

会在实现完全相同的目标时 对男性的评价高于女性。

for achieving exactly the same goals.

Women with exactly the same qualifications as men

与男性具备相同资质的女性

are 30 percent less likely to be called for a job interview.

被邀请参加招聘面试的 可能性要低 30％。

If you have only one woman on a shortlist,

如果你的候选名单上只有一位女性，

the chances of appointing her are vanishingly small.

那么任命她的机会就微乎其微。

Because it's telling us that men are the natural holders of this job,

因为这个局面暗示了 天生就该由男性来干这份工作，

and that appointing a woman would be risky.

而且任命女性是有风险的。

Adding just one more woman to the shortlist

只要在候选名单中再增加一名女性，

makes the odds of hiring a woman 79 times greater.

雇用女性的几率就会高出 79 倍。

Companies or employers can also actively encourage talented women

企业或雇主也可以 积极鼓励有才华的女性

to apply for promotion.

申请晋升。

Because we are socialized to be less confident

因为与男性相比，我们在社交环境中 不那么自信，更少宣传自己。

and less self-promoting than men.

And if we do act confidently,

如果我们真的自信地做事，

people often don't like it

人们往往不喜欢这样，

and they start calling us words like “strident” or “pushy.”

他们会开始用“咄咄逼人”、 “争强好胜”之类的词语形容我们。

I was caricatured for years in Britain's satirical "Private Eye" magazine

英国讽刺杂志《侦探》多年以来

as Mary Ann Bighead.

都讽刺地称我为“玛丽·安·大头” （恶搞讲者姓名）。

Just because I tried to seem as confident

只是因为我努力表现得 像我的男性同事们那样自信。

as my male colleagues.

And that's why it's really important not to fall for the confidence trick,

这就是为什么不要轻信自信的骗局，

to mistake confidence for competence,

不要把信心误认为能力，

because they're absolutely not the same thing.

因为它们绝对不是一回事。

(Applause)

（掌声）

An academic paper, unusually entitled

一篇学术论文， 有着一个别致的标题：

"Bullshitters. Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives"

《胡说八道的人。他们是谁， 我们对他们的生活了解多少》

found that teenage boys are significantly more likely than girls

发现青少年男孩远比女孩

to pretend to understand mathematical concepts that didn't even exist.

更有可能假装理解 甚至不存在的数学概念。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And this relative male overconfidence persists into adulthood.

这种相对的男性过度自信 一直持续到成年。

So if we take overconfident men at their word,

如果我们信了这些 过度自信的男性说的话，

we're going to be much more likely to hire or promote them,

我们就更有可能会雇用或晋升他们，

even if they're nothing like as competent as their female rivals.

即使他们没有女性竞争对手那样有能力。

Now representation matters everywhere.

表达在哪里都很重要。

But one place that could really make a dent in the authority gap

但是，真正可以 缩小职权缺口的地方

is the media.

是媒体。

Because if it's sending us the signal that men are more authoritative,

因为如果它向我们传递了 男性比女性更权威、

more expert, more important than women,

更专业、更重要的讯息，

that's just going to confirm our biases.

那只会证实我们的偏见。

At the moment, men are three times more likely

目前，新闻报道中引用男性的可能性 是女性的三倍，

to be quoted in news stories than women,

and twice as likely to be the protagonists in movies.

成为电影主角的可能性是女性的两倍。

The BBC has recently made a push

英国广播公司最近努力

to have 50 percent female experts on air.

让节目上有 50% 的女性专家。

And I think that could make a real difference to the next generation.

我认为这可能会给下一代 带来真正的改变。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Because once we get used to seeing women as authorities in public,

因为我们一旦习惯了在公众场合 看到女性作为权威人士出现，

we're going to find it much easier to accord them equal authority

我们就会发现在日常生活中 赋予她们平等的权威要容易得多。

in our daily lives.

So let's work together to close the authority gap.

让我们一起努力弥合职权缺口吧。

We’ll all be happier and healthier.

我们都会更快乐、更健康。

We’ll get more sex.

我们会有更多的性爱。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And the world will be a better place.

世界将会变得更美好。

As Mary McAleese, the former president of Ireland,

正如爱尔兰前总统玛丽·麦卡利斯 （Mary McAleese）

put it to me so eloquently:

信誓旦旦地对我说：

"If men don't take women equally seriously,

“如果男人不同样认真地对待女人，

then we end up with this world that flies on one wing."

那么我们最终会得到一个 用单翼飞翔的世界。”

And that's our world flapping about rather sadly,

不幸的是，这就是 我们摇摇欲坠的世界，

because of the refusal to use the elevation

因为他们拒绝接受 双翼飞行带来的

and the direction and the confidence

that comes from flying on two wings.

高度、方向、自信。

We have to understand that when women flourish

我们必须明白， 当女性蓬勃地发展，

and their talents and their creativity flourish,

她们的才华和创造力 得到蓬勃发展时，

then the world flourishes and men flourish.

世界就会蓬勃发展， 男性也会蓬勃发展。

We all flourish.

我们都会蓬勃发展。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）