How to Close the Authority Gap | Mary Ann Sieghart | TED

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 麗玲 辛

At a conference a few years ago,

幾年前，在一場大會上， 有名男子問我是做什麼的。

a man asked me what I did.

And I led a portfolio life,

而我的生活多采多姿，

so I just rattled off a list and I said,

所以我不假思索就唸出 一長串，我說：「嗯，

“Well, I write a political column for ‘The Independent’ newspaper.

我為《獨立報》寫政治專欄、

I make radio programs for the BBC.

我為英國廣播公司製作廣播節目、

I chair a think tank.

我主持一個智庫、

I sit on a couple of commercial boards.

我在幾個商業董事會任職、

I’m on the council of Tate Modern,

我是泰特現代美術館理事會成員、

and I am on the content board of Ofcom,

也是 Ofcom 的內容董事會成員，

our broadcasting regulator.

那是我們的廣播監管機構。

(Cheers and applause)

（歡呼和掌聲）

To which he replied, "Wow, you're a busy little girl."

他對我的回應是：「哇， 你是個忙碌的小女孩。」

Audience: Whoa!

觀眾：哇喔！

MAS: I was about 50, older than our Prime Minister.

講者：我大約五十歲， 比我們的總理還年長。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

This is a classic example of what I call the “authority gap,”

這是我所謂的「權威 差距」的典型例子，

the way we still take women less seriously than men.

我們認真看待女性的 程度仍然不及男性。

We're still more reluctant to accord authority to women.

我們還是比較不願意 把權威賦予女性。

We still assume a man knows what he's talking about

我們仍然假設男人 知道自己在說什麼，

until he proves otherwise.

直到證明不是如此。

While for a woman, it's all too often the other way round.

對女人，通常是恰恰相反的。

Research shows that men have six times more influence in group discussions

研究指出，在團體討論中， 男性的影響力是女性的六倍。

than women.

Women are twice as likely as men

比起男性，女性有兩倍高的比率

to say they have to provide evidence of their competence,

說她們必須提供證據， 證明自己的能力，

or that people are surprised at their abilities.

或別人會對她們的能力感到驚訝。

And women of color are much more likely than white women to say this.

而比起白人女性，有色人種 女性又有更高的比率會這麼說。

If you're working-class or disabled, the gap gets bigger still.

如果你是藍領階級 或身障人士，差距還會更大。

Basically, the farther we are from the white, male, middle class default,

基本上，我們離白種男性 中產階級的預設值越遠，

the wider the authority gap is.

權威差距就越大。

I bet every woman listening has a tale to tell

我敢說每一位正在聆聽的 女性都有個故事可以講，

about being underestimated,

也許是被低估、

ignored, patronized,

被忽視、

被看輕、

interrupted or talked over,

被打斷或被搶話、

challenged or mistaken for someone more junior, right?

被挑戰，

或被誤認為更資淺，對吧？

In fact, it doesn't matter if you are a president of a country,

事實上，不論你是國家的元首、

the CEO of a huge corporation

大型企業的執行長，

or a justice of the US Supreme Court.

或最高法院的法官，都無所謂。

Female justices get interrupted three times more than male ones,

女法官被打斷的機率 是男法官的三倍，

96 percent of the time by men.

且 96% 的時候是被男性打斷的。

If you still need proof though,

不過，如果各位還需要證據，

a great test is to talk to people who’ve lived as both a man and a woman.

一個很好的測試方式就是與曾經 以男性和女性身分過生活的人談談。

Because they’re exactly the same person with the same ability, intelligence,

因為他們完全是同一個人，

具有相同的能力、 智能、個性、經驗。

personality, experience.

And if they're treated quite differently after they transition,

如果他們在性別轉變後 受到完全不同的待遇，

that must be because of their gender.

那一定是因為他們的性別。

As scientists would say,

科學家會說，

we've controlled for all the other variables

我們已經控制了所有其他變數，

and isolated the only one that matters:

並把唯一重要的變數分離出來：

whether they're seen as male or female.

他們是被視為男性或女性。

While I was researching the authority gap,

當我在研究權威差距時，

I came across two Stanford science professors

我遇到了兩位史丹佛的科學教授，

who happened to transition at the same time in different directions.

他們剛好同時做了相反的變性。

Ben Barres, who was a neuroscientist,

班‧巴里斯是神經科學家，

was astonished by the difference it made to his life

當他開始以男人的身分生活，

once he started living as a man.

變性對他的生活 帶來的差別讓他十分震驚。

"I've had the thought a million times," he said.

他說：「我已經想過無數次了，

"I'm taken more seriously."

別人更認真看待我了。」

An academic who didn't know his history,

在他的研討會後，有人聽見一位

was overheard after one of his seminars saying,

不知道他做過變性的學者這麼說：

"Oh, Ben Barris gave a great seminar today.

「哦，班‧巴里斯 今天的研討會很棒。

But then his work's much better than his sister's."

但，他做的比他的妹妹好太多了。」

Audience: (Gasps)

觀眾：（倒抽一口氣）

MAS: Right?

講者：是吧？

Meanwhile, Joan Roughgarden, who is an evolutionary biologist,

同時，進化生物學家 瓊安‧洛斯加登告訴我，

told me that when she was still living as a man,

當她還是男人時，

she felt like she was on this conveyor belt to success.

她覺得自己就像站在 通往成功的輸送帶上。

Her pay kept going up,

她不斷被加薪，不斷被升遷，

she kept getting promoted,

when she spoke, people listened.

當她說話時，大家會聽。

Once she started living as a woman,

一旦她開始當女人，

這一切都變了。

all that changed.

So she was interrupted, she was challenged,

她被打斷，她被挑戰， 她被人身攻擊。

she was personally attacked.

She'd make a point and no one took any notice until a man repeated it.

她提出的論點沒有人會注意， 直到有某個男人重複它。

"At first," she said, "I was amused.

她說：「剛開始我覺得很好玩。

I thought, well, if women are discriminated against,

我想，嗯，如果女性是受到歧視的，

I'm darn well going to be discriminated against the same way."

我肯定會受到同樣的歧視。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And then she said,

然後她說：「我可以告訴你， 那種興奮感都被磨光了。」

"Well, the thrill of that has worn off, I can tell you."

Her conclusion, like mine,

她的結論跟我一樣：

was that men are assumed to be competent until they prove otherwise.

大家會假設男性是有能力的， 直到他們證實不是如此。

Women are assumed to be incompetent until they prove otherwise.

大家會假設女性是無能的， 直到她們證明不是如此。

Obviously I’d like to do something about this,

顯然，針對這個問題， 我想做點什麼，

but what’s in it for men?

但男性能得到什麼好處？

Well, one of the most encouraging things I found

我在研究權威差距時，發現了 一件相當鼓舞人心的事，

while researching the authority gap

was that narrowing the gap isn't like a seesaw,

那就是：縮小差距並不像翹翹板，

翹翹板指的是當女性升起時， 男性就會自動下降。

in which as women rise, men just automatically fall.

I mean, there might be the odd occasion when,

當然可能會有特殊情況，比如，

if you're a man in direct competition with a woman

如果你是男性， 要和一名女性直接競爭，

and the bias against her is dissolved,

而對她的偏見消失了，

she might just beat you on merit.

她可能會用實力打敗你。

But in almost every aspect of your life,

但，幾乎在生活中的每個面向上，

greater gender equality is likely to make you happier, healthier

性別越平等，就會讓你更快樂、

更健康，和更滿足。

and more satisfied.

There's been some fascinating academic research

有一些很棒的學術研究

showing that both in more gender-equal countries and US states

指出在性別比較平等的國家 及美國性別比較平等的州，

and in more equal straight relationships,

且在比較平等的直接關係中，

not only are the women happier and healthier,

女性不僅更快樂、更健康， 應該如各位所料，

which you'd expect, less resentful, less exhausted,

也比較少憤怒、比較不疲勞，

they feel more part of a team.

更覺得自己是團隊的一分子。

And the children are happier and healthier.

孩子也更快樂、更健康，

在學校的表現更好、

They do better at school,

they get on much better with their dads,

與父親相處得更好、

they have fewer behavioral difficulties.

行為困難也更少。

But more surprisingly, perhaps,

但，也許更令人驚訝的是，

the men themselves are happier and healthier.

男性本身也更快樂、更健康。

So they're twice is likely to say they're satisfied with their lives,

男性會說自己很滿意 自身生活的比率變成兩倍，

half as likely to be depressed.

憂鬱的比率則減為一半。

They tend to smoke less, drink less,

他們通常會減少抽煙和喝酒，

sleep better, take fewer drugs.

睡得更好，服用的藥物也比較少。

And here's the absolute clincher:

其中絕對的關鍵在於：

they get more frequent and better sex.

他們更常做愛，且品質更佳。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So if it's in all our interests,

如果這對大家都有利，

what can we do to close the authority gap?

我們能怎麼做，來消除權威差距？

Well, I counted the other day,

前幾天我算了一下，我想出了 一百四十種解決方案。

I've come up with 140 solutions.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

You'll be glad to hear I'm not going to share them all with you today,

各位應該很高興聽到，我今天 沒打算要分享所有解決方案，

but I'm just going to leave you with a few ideas to take away.

我只打算給各位幾個 可以帶走的想法，

I’m always asked, “OK, so what should women do?”

別人總是問我：

「好，所以女性該怎麼做？」

But it's not women we need to fix, right?

但我們要處理的並不是女性，對吧？

It's how we all perceive and react to and interact with women.

要處理的是我們所有人如何 看待女性、回應女性、和女性互動。

We need to make changes to ourselves, to our workplaces

我們需要改變的是我們自己、

我們的工作場所，

and to the world around us.

和我們周遭的世界。

Even women are biased against other women.

就連女性也對其他女性有偏見。

A few years ago in Britain,

幾年前，

在英國，我們有個 政黨的領導人是女性，

we had a female leader of a political party

who had a high voice and sounded almost childish.

她的聲音很高，

聽起來幾乎可說很幼稚。

And when she came on the radio,

當她上廣播時，

I'd find it quite hard to take her seriously.

我會覺得很難認真看待她。

But as soon as I had that reflex reaction, I'd say to myself, stop it!

但當我出現那種反射反應時， 我就會對自己說，停下來！

Listen to the content of what she's saying,

聽聽她說的內容，

and don't judge her by the pitch of her voice.

別用她的聲音來判斷她。

We all need to notice when our brains are trying to trick us like that.

當我們的大腦像那樣耍我們的 時候，我們都得留意。

It can also help to flip things around.

換個方向來看也會有幫助。

To ask ourselves, would I have thought that or said that or done that

問問自己：

如果這個人是男性而非女性，

我是否還會這麼想、 這麼說，或這麼做？

if this person had been a man rather than a woman?

Would I have mistaken that male CEO for his assistant?

我會把那個男性執行長 誤認為執行長助理嗎？

Or would I have called a 50-year-old man “a busy little boy?”

我會把一個五十歲的男性 稱為「忙碌的小男孩」嗎？

I don't think so.

我不覺得會。

When we're at work, we can actively affirm what a woman says,

當我們在工作時，只要女性說的話 是有趣的，我們就可以積極肯定它。

as long as it's interesting.

Research shows that even if women make up 40 percent of a group,

研究指出，即使群體中 女性佔四成的比例，

they're half as likely as men to gain approval from it

她們得到群體認可的可能性 仍然是男性的一半，

且被打斷的機會比男性高很多。

and much more likely to be interrupted.

If Evie makes a point at a meeting,

如果伊薇在會議上提出一個論點，

and no one takes a blind bit of notice until Peter repeats it ten minutes later

完全沒有人在意，直到十分鐘後 彼得把這個論點重複了一遍，

and it's treated like the Second Coming,

同樣的論點卻被看成 像基督復臨一樣，

we can say to Peter, "Oh, I'm so glad you agree with what Evie said earlier."

我們就可以對彼得說：「喔， 很高興你認同伊薇先前說的。」

If Peter interrupts Rosa --

如果彼得打斷蘿莎——

(Applause)

（掌聲）

If Peter interrupts Rosa, we can say, "Hang on a minute.

如果彼得打斷蘿莎， 我們可以說：「等等，

I was really interested in what Rosa was saying there."

我對蘿莎剛剛在說的 內容非常感興趣。」

And what can employers do?

雇主可以做什麼？

Well, the first thing they must do

雇主必須做的第一件事， 是確保他們是真正

is to make sure that they genuinely are hiring and promoting on merit.

根據能力來招聘和提拔員工。

One study found that 70 percent of men

一項研究發現，70% 的男性

will rate a man more highly than a woman

在評鑑達成相同目標的 男性和女性時，

for achieving exactly the same goals.

會給男性比較高的評價。

Women with exactly the same qualifications as men

與男性擁有完全相同資格的女性，

are 30 percent less likely to be called for a job interview.

接到工作面試電話的 機率比男性低 30%。

If you have only one woman on a shortlist,

如果最終候選名單上只有一名女性，

the chances of appointing her are vanishingly small.

挑中她的機會小之又小。

Because it's telling us that men are the natural holders of this job,

因為這份名單告訴我們， 這個工作本來就適合男性，

and that appointing a woman would be risky.

指派女性來擔任是很冒險的。

Adding just one more woman to the shortlist

只要最終候選名單中再多一名女性，

makes the odds of hiring a woman 79 times greater.

僱用女性的機率增加為七十九倍。

Companies or employers can also actively encourage talented women

公司或雇主也可以主動鼓勵

有才華的女性申請晉升。

to apply for promotion.

Because we are socialized to be less confident

因為社會化讓我們變得

比男人更沒自信，且更少做自我宣傳。

and less self-promoting than men.

And if we do act confidently,

如果我們真的表現出自信，

people often don't like it

通常都不討喜，

and they start calling us words like “strident” or “pushy.”

且別人會開始用「咄咄逼人」 或「強勢」等詞來形容我們。

I was caricatured for years in Britain's satirical "Private Eye" magazine

多年來，英國的諷刺雜誌 《私家偵探》一直取笑我

as Mary Ann Bighead.

是瑪莉‧安‧大頭。

Just because I tried to seem as confident

只因為我試圖展現出 和我的男同事同等的自信。

as my male colleagues.

And that's why it's really important not to fall for the confidence trick,

因此，很重要的是， 別被自信騙局給唬了，

to mistake confidence for competence,

誤把自信當作能力，

because they're absolutely not the same thing.

自信和能力完全是兩回事。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

An academic paper, unusually entitled

有一篇學術論文有個 不尋常的標題，叫做

"Bullshitters. Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives"

「胡說八道的人：

他們是誰以及我們 對他們的生活了解什麼」，

found that teenage boys are significantly more likely than girls

該研究發現，青少年男孩 比女孩更有可能會

to pretend to understand mathematical concepts that didn't even exist.

假裝了解根本不存在的數學概念。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And this relative male overconfidence persists into adulthood.

而這種男性相對過度自信的 現象到成年期都還存在。

So if we take overconfident men at their word,

因此，如果我們聽信 過度自信的男人所說的話，

we're going to be much more likely to hire or promote them,

我們更有可能會聘用或提拔他們，

even if they're nothing like as competent as their female rivals.

即使他們的能力根本比不上 他們的女性競爭對手。

Now representation matters everywhere.

在任何地方，代表性都很重要。

But one place that could really make a dent in the authority gap

但，特別是在媒體上， 代表性真的會影響權威差距。

is the media.

Because if it's sending us the signal that men are more authoritative,

因為如果媒體傳遞給我們的訊息

是男性比女性更有權威性、 更專業、更重要，

more expert, more important than women,

that's just going to confirm our biases.

那只會更強化我們的偏見。

At the moment, men are three times more likely

目前，在新聞報導中，引用 男性說詞的機率是女性的三倍，

to be quoted in news stories than women,

and twice as likely to be the protagonists in movies.

電影主角為男性的機率 則為女性的兩倍。

The BBC has recently made a push

英國廣播公司最近在推動

to have 50 percent female experts on air.

廣播中的專家要有 50% 是女性。

And I think that could make a real difference to the next generation.

我認為這對下一代 能產生真正的影響。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Because once we get used to seeing women as authorities in public,

因為一旦我們習慣看到 公眾權威人物是女性，

we're going to find it much easier to accord them equal authority

在日常生活中我們就更容易 賦予她們同等的權威性。

in our daily lives.

So let's work together to close the authority gap.

因此，讓我們一起 努力消除權威差距。

We’ll all be happier and healthier.

大家都會更快樂、更健康。

We’ll get more sex.

我們會有更多性愛。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And the world will be a better place.

世界也會變得更好。

As Mary McAleese, the former president of Ireland,

正如同愛爾蘭前總統瑪麗‧麥卡利斯 用非常雄辯的方式告訴我的：

put it to me so eloquently:

"If men don't take women equally seriously,

「如果男性不能同等認真看待女性，

then we end up with this world that flies on one wing."

我們最終會讓這個世界 變成只用一隻翅膀飛行。」

And that's our world flapping about rather sadly,

那時，我們的世界就是 很悲傷地在拍打著翅膀，

because of the refusal to use the elevation

因為拒絕使用靠兩隻翅膀飛行

and the direction and the confidence

所帶來的高度、方向，和信心。

that comes from flying on two wings.

We have to understand that when women flourish

我們必須了解，當女性蓬勃發展時，

and their talents and their creativity flourish,

當她們的才能和創意蓬勃發展時，

then the world flourishes and men flourish.

世界也會蓬勃發展， 且男性也會蓬勃發展。

We all flourish.

大家都會蓬勃發展。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）