The business case for working with your toughest critics | Bob Langert | TED

翻译人员: Jiasi Hao 校对人员: psjmz mz

Who remembers this infamous Styrofoam container?

谁还记得“臭名远扬”的泡沫塑料餐盒？

(Applause)

（掌声）

Well, it sure changed me, it changed my company,

这显然改变了我， 改变了我公司，

and it started a revelatory journey

也开启了一场关于 “竞争对手可以成为你最佳同盟”

about how adversaries can be your best allies.

的启发性旅程。

You know, back in the late '80s,

要知道，在 80 年代后期，

this Big Mac clamshell was the symbol of a garbage crisis.

这个巨无霸翻盖式餐盒 是垃圾危机的象征。

People were really angry.

人们为此极其不满。

For example, thousands of students,

比如，全球数千名

young students around the globe were sending letters, blaming McDonald's,

年轻的学生们 都寄出了谴责麦当劳的信件，

because we were using millions of these at that time.

因为那时我们正在使用 上百万只这样的餐盒。

Now, no one at McDonald's knew anything about environmentally friendly packaging,

麦当劳没有一个人 熟悉环境友好的包装，

including me.

包括我。

The last 10 years,

在 10 年前，

I was in charge of logistics and truck drivers.

我主管物流和卡车司机。

Then out of nowhere, my boss comes to me

之后不知怎么的，老板找到了我，

and says, "Hey, we want you to save this clamshell for the company

说：“嘿，我们想要你为公司 节省翻盖餐盒方面的开支，

and lead the effort to reduce waste within McDonald's."

带头减少麦当劳内部的浪费。”

I looked at him and I asked him,

我看着他，问道：

"What is polystyrene?"

“泡沫塑料是什么？”

But it all sounded intriguing to me

但对我来说， 这些听起来非常有趣，

because it brought me back to my roots.

因为这把我带回了老本行。

You see, I grew up in the late '60s, early '70s,

我在 60 年代末 70 年代初，

in a time of huge social upheaval in the United States.

美国社会极为动荡的时期下长大。

And I was really in tune with the protests, the sit-ins,

我与抗议、静坐、

the anti-Vietnam sentiment,

反越战情绪步调一致，

and I really felt there was a need to question authority.

真的觉得有必要质疑权威。

But as I went into university,

但是当我进入了大学，

I realized that I'm not going to make a living doing this.

我意识到我将不会以此为生；

And that whole movement had subsided,

再加上整个反抗运动的逐渐消退，

and my activist spirit went dormant.

我的活动家精神随之蛰伏。

And I needed to make a living,

我还要生存，

so I got involved in the business world.

所以我进入了商业世界。

So, now these students against pollution,

现在那些学生反对污染，

who were sending those protest letters to McDonald's,

给麦当劳寄出了无数抗议信，

they reminded me of myself 20 years ago.

他们使我想起了 20 年前的自己。

They're questioning authority.

他们正在质疑权威。

But now, I'm the man.

但现在，我成了那个权威人士。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I'm the corporate suit.

我是公司的门面，

I'm the one representing authority.

我是那个代表权威的人。

And this new thing was emerging

有个新事物正在浮现，

called corporate social responsibility,

叫做企业社会责任，

later corporate sustainability,

即后来的企业可持续性。

and now I had a chance to make a difference.

现在，我手握一个改变的机会。

So the beginning of this journey

这段旅程始于

started when McDonald's agreed to a partnership

麦当劳同意与美国环保协会（EDF）

with the Environmental Defense Fund.

形成合作伙伴关系。

They were an NGO

它们是非政府组织，

that was founded with the principle of "sue the bastards."

以“告那些混蛋”为原则成立的组织。

So I'm thinking,

所以我在思考：

what are they thinking about me and my team?

他们怎么想我和我的团队？

When I first met Richard Denison,

当我第一次见到 EDF 的高级科学家

he's the senior scientist for EDF,

理查德·丹尼森时，

I was very apprehensive.

我非常担忧，

I thought he's a tree-hugger,

因为我以为他是环保极端人士，

and I'm thinking he thinks all I care about is the money.

他会觉得我只在意钱。

So we wanted the EDF team to give us real-world solutions.

所以我们想要让 EDF 团队 给我们一个实际解决方案。

So we did the logical thing.

于是我们做了最符合逻辑的事：

We had them flip burgers in our restaurants.

让他们在我们餐厅里翻汉堡包。

So you have to imagine Richard,

你要想象理查德，

who, by the way, is a PhD in physics,

一个物理学博士，

and there he is, he's trying to dress a quarter-pounder,

在那里尝试给 1/4 磅的肉饼调味，

and you're supposed to have two squirts of ketchup, one mustard,

而且应该是 2 股番茄酱，1 股芥末，

three pickles and an onion, go on to the next one,

3 片腌黄瓜和 1 片洋葱， 然后继续下一个，

你动作一定要很快。

you've got to be so fast.

And you know what? He couldn't get it right all day long.

你猜怎么着？这种节奏 他根本维持不了一整天。

And he was frustrated.

他很受挫，

And I was so impressed,

而我非常敬佩他，

because he was trying to understand our business.

因为他在尝试着理解我们的生意。

Now, the EDF team,

之后 EDF 团队

they thought reusables were the holy grail for our business.

认为可回收材料 是我们成功的关键。

Me and my team thought, reusables?

而我和我的团队们并不看好 可回收材料——

Too much space, they'd make a mess,

太占地方了，一定会狼藉一片，

they would slow us down.

它们会拖慢我们的速度。

But we didn't reject the idea.

但我们没有拒绝这个想法。

We went to the restaurant they chose outside DC, we went to the back room.

我们去了他们选的一家 华盛顿郊外的餐厅，去了后厨。

The dishwasher wasn't working properly,

洗碗机坏了，

it's spitting out dirty dishes.

脏碟子到处都是。

The kitchen area is dirty and grimy.

厨房区域满是灰尘和污渍。

And compared to their experience at McDonald's

相比他们在麦当劳

that's clean and organized,

干净且有组织的体验，

they could see the stark difference.

他们能看到彻底的不同。

We also sat in a restaurant at McDonald's, all day long,

我们也整天坐在麦当劳里，

and watched the customers eating in.

观察堂食顾客

Their behavior.

的行为。

Ends up that many customers left with the food,

我们发现， 许多客人都把餐食带走，

they left with the beverage.

留下了饮料。

And EDF came to their own conclusion

于是 EDF 团队得出了 他们自己的结论，

that reusables wouldn't work for us.

即可回收材料不适合我们。

But they did have a lot of ideas that did work.

但他们也有很多有用的想法。

And we never would have thought of them by ourselves,

没有 EDF 团队，

without the EDF team.

我们自己肯定不会想到这些。

My favorite was switching from the white carry-out bag

我最喜欢的就是从白色外卖纸袋

to the brown bag.

改成棕色纸袋。

We had been using the white bag.

我们很长一段时间都在用白色纸袋。

It's virgin material,

这是纯净原材料，

it's made from chlorine bleaching chemicals,

由氯漂白化学物质制成，

and they said, use an unbleached bag,

之后他们说，“用未经漂白的袋子，

no chemicals.

里面没有有害化学物质。”

It's made from recycled content,

这是由可回收物品制成的，

mostly recycled shipping corrugated boxes.

主要原材料是打包用的瓦楞纸箱。

Ends up that the bag is stronger, the fiber is stronger,

最终我们发现这样的纸袋 更加牢固，纤维更具韧性，

it didn't cost us more money.

也不会增加成本，

It was win-win.

是个双赢的替代方案。

Another idea they had

他们的另一个想法

was that we could reduce our napkin by one inch.

就是我们可以把纸巾缩小一英寸，

And make it from recycled office paper.

使用可回收的办公室用纸制作。

I'm thinking, one inch, no big deal.

我想，一英寸，不是啥大事儿。

We did it, it reduced waste by three million pounds a year.

我们于是实行了这个想法， 每年减少了

Sixteen thousand trees saved.

300 万磅废弃物， 保护了 1.6 万树木。

(Applause)

（掌声）

What was really cool is we changed that bright white napkin,

真正酷炫的是 我们替换了原本的亮白纸巾。

because the recycled content became gray and speckled.

因为可回收材料制成的纸巾 颜色较灰且有斑点，

And we made that look, you know,

我们也把纸巾的造型

in tune, in vogue with customers.

改得符合大众期待和审美。

So, I came to really enjoy

因此，我开始真正地享受

the time working with the EDF team.

和 EDF 团队一起工作的时光。

We had many dinners, late-night discussions,

我们多次共进晚餐， 开展了不少深夜讨论，

we went to a ball game together.

也一起去打球。

We became friends.

我们变成了朋友。

And that's when I learned a life lesson.

也就在这时，我学会了 一个人生教训。

That these NGO crusaders,

那些非政府组织中的战士们，

they're really no different than me.

和我真的没什么不一样。

They care, they have passion,

他们有责任感，他们拥有热情，

we're just not different.

我们没什么不同。

So, we had a six-month partnership

我们六个月的合作

that ended up producing a 42-point waste reduction action plan.

共同达成了了一份包含 42 项内容的减废行动计划。

To reduce, reuse, recycle.

减少废物、重新利用、循环使用。

We measured it during the decade of the '90s,

从 90 年代开始， 我们测量了一下，

and over 10 years we reduced 300 million pounds of waste.

10 年多的时间， 我们总共减少了 3 亿磅废物。

Now, if you're wondering about that polystyrene clamshell,

现在如果你在回想 那个泡沫塑料翻盖餐盒，

yeah, we ditched it.

没错，我们已经抛弃它了。

And luckily, I still had a job.

幸运的是，我的工作没丢。

And this partnership was so successful

而且这个合作关系是如此成功，

that we went on to recycle the idea to work with critics.

我们决定继续贯彻一个观点： 与批判者协作。

Collaborate with them on solutions that could work

与他们合作共寻解决方案，

for society and for business.

以同时满足社会和企业需求。

But could this idea of collaborating

但这一个协作的想法

work with the most contrarian folks?

对那些最逆势的人行得通吗？

And on issues that are, you know, not within our direct control.

尤其是那些不在 我们直接控制范围内的问题。

Like animal rights.

例如动物权利。

Now, animal rights,

关于动物权利，

obviously they don't want animals used for meat.

显然他们不想宰割动物以作肉用。

McDonald's, probably the biggest purchaser of meat

麦当劳，可能是食品服务业中

in the food service industry.

最大的肉类采购商。

So there's a natural conflict there.

所以这里存在一个天然的矛盾。

But I thought it would be best

但我想如果能去拜访

to go visit and learn from the most vociferous and vigilant critics

那些活跃且警觉 的批判家们，并向他们学习，

we had at that time,

那就再好不过了。

which were Henry Spira, head of Animal Rights International,

例如亨利·史匹拉， 国际动物权利组织的负责人，

and Peter Singer,

还有彼得·辛格，

who wrote the book "Animal Liberation,"

他写了《动物解放》一书，

which is considered the modern treatise about animal rights.

被认为是关于动物权利的当代专著。

You know, I read Peter's book to prepare,

为了做功课，我读了彼得的书，

I tried to get into his mindset,

尽可能去理解他的思维模式，

and I have to admit, it was tough,

我必须承认，这很难，

I'm not becoming a vegan,

我也没有转变为纯素食者，

my company wasn't going that way.

我公司也没往那个方向发展。

But I really thought we could learn a lot.

但是我确实认为从中可以学到很多。

And so I set up a breakfast meeting in New York City.

因此我在纽约安排了一个早餐会议。

And I remember sitting down, getting ready,

我记得当时坐了下来，做好准备，

and I decided I'm not going to order my favorite,

决定不点自己最爱的食物，

which is you know, bacon and sausage and eggs.

就那种，培根、香肠和鸡蛋。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I'm just going to stick to the pastries.

我打算盯着面包糕点吃。

But I have to admit,

但是我得承认，

I was waiting for the adversarial discussion to happen.

我原本等待着一次针锋相对的讨论，

And it never did.

但出乎我意料的是，

Henry and Peter were just gracious,

亨利和彼得表现得很亲切，

they were caring, they were smart, they asked good questions.

他们体贴、聪慧，善于提问。

I told them about how working on animal welfare

我和他们说到，对麦当劳来说， 在动物福利上下功夫

is very tough for McDonald's

很难。

because our direct suppliers, they only make meat patties.

因为我们直接的供应商 只生产肉饼。

The animals are three or four steps removed from our influence.

与动物相关的， 在我们供应链上游的 3-4 个环节。

And they were very empathetic.

之后他们非常感同身受。

And while we were so directly opposed

尽管考虑到各自的组织使命，

in terms of the missions of our organizations,

我们本应针锋相对，

I felt that I had learned a lot.

但我觉得我学到了很多。

And best of all, they gave me a terrific recommendation.

最好的是， 他们给了我一个绝妙的建议。

And that is, they said,

他们说，

"You should work with Dr. Temple Grandin."

“你应该和天宝·葛兰汀博士合作。”

Now, I didn't know her at the time.

当时我并不知道她。

But I tell you,

但我要告诉你们，

she's the most renowned expert, then and now, on animal behavior.

她一直以来，在动物行为学方面 是最有声誉的专家。

And she knows how animals move and how they should react in facilities.

她知道动物的运动方式 以及在设施中应有的反应。

So I end up meeting her,

所以我后来和她见了面，

and she's the very best type of critic,

发现她是最好的那种批判家，

in a sense that she just loves the animals,

从某种意义上说 她只是爱动物，

wants to protect them,

想要保护它们，

but she also understands the reality of the meat business.

但是她也理解肉类行业的现实。

And I'll always remember,

而且我也永远都会记得，

I had never been to a slaughterhouse in my life,

我第一次和她一起去屠宰场，

and so I go with her for my first trip.

而我此生还尚未见过屠宰场。

I didn't know what to expect.

我无法想象自己将会看到什么。

And we find that the animal handlers have electric prods in their hands,

我们发现畜管员手中拿着电棒，

and are basically zapping almost every animal in the facility.

击杀着眼前近乎每一个动物。

We're both appalled, she's jumping up and down,

我俩都感到非常震惊， 她急得直跳脚，

you'd have to know her,

你们一定要认识一下她，

she's saying, "This can't be, this isn't right,

她说：“这不行，不能这么做。

we could use flags, we could use plastic bags,

我们可以使用旗子， 我们可以利用塑料袋，

也可以根据动物的自然行为 重新设计围栏。”

we could redesign the corrals for natural behavior."

Well I set up Temple with our suppliers

总之，我把天宝和我们的供应商们

to set up standards and guidelines.

聚集到一起，来制定标准和指南，

And ways to measure her ideas of implementing animal welfare.

以及能够衡量 她实行动物福利想法的方法。

We did this for the next two to five years.

我们在接下来的的 2-5 年 一直在做这件事。

And it all got integrated, it all got enforced.

所有的努力都得以 被整合、被实行。

By the way, two of McDonald's suppliers lost business

顺便提一句， 有两个麦当劳的供应商

because they didn't meet our standards.

因为无法满足我们的标准， 丢了生意。

And best of all,

功夫不负有心人，

all these standards ended up scaling to the entire industry.

所有这些标准 最终变成了整个行业标准。

And no more zapping of those animals.

用电棒击杀那些动物 的行为早已不复存在。

Now, what about issues that we're blamed for elsewhere?

那我们被问责的其他问题呢？

Like deforestation.

例如森林砍伐。

You know, on that issue, I always thought,

在这个问题上，我一直想，

policy makers and government, that's their role.

这是政策制定者和政府的事儿。

Never thought it would end up in my lap.

我从来没想过会成我的顾虑。

But I remember in early April 2006,

但我记得在 2006 年 4 月初，

I opened up my Blackberry,

我打开自己的黑莓手机，

and I'm reading about Greenpeace campaigners

读到绿色和平组织（Greenpeace） 的几十个活动者

showing up in the UK by the dozens,

出现在英国，

dressed as chickens,

装扮成鸡，

having breakfast at McDonald's

在麦当劳享用早餐，

and chaining themselves to the chairs and tables.

并把他们自己拴在桌椅上。

So they got a lot of attention,

他们获得了很多关注，

including mine.

包括我的。

And I was wondering if the report that they had just released,

我在想是不是他们的报告刚被发行，

it was called "Eating Up the Amazon."

报告名为《耗空亚马逊》 （‘Eating Up the Amazon’）。

And by the way, soy is a key ingredient for chicken feed,

顺便介绍一下， 大豆是鸡饲料的关键材料，

and that's the connection to McDonald's.

这就是它和麦当劳的联系。

So I called my trusted friends at the World Wildlife Fund,

于是我打电话给我在世界野生动物基金（WWF） 的一些可靠的朋友，

I called Conservation International,

打电话给保护国际（CI），

and I soon learned that the Greenpeace report was accurate.

很快我就意识到， 绿色和平组织的报告数据是准确的。

So I gathered internal support,

所以我聚集起公司内部支持，

and I'll always remember, next day, after that campaign,

我永远都会记得， 在那个运动的第二天，

I called them up,

我打电话给他们，

and I said, "We agree with you."

并且说，“我们同意你们的观点。”

And I said, "How about working together?"

我又说，“要不我们合作？”

So three days later,

于是三天后，

miraculously, four people from McDonald's,

4 个麦当劳的人

four people from Greenpeace,

和 4 个绿色和平的人

we're meeting in the London Heathrow airport.

奇迹般地在伦敦希思罗机场进行了会面。

And I have to say, the first hour was shaky,

我必须说， 第一个小时的气氛不太稳定，

it wasn't a whole lot of trust in the room.

房间里没几分信任存在。

But it seemed like everything came together,

但似乎情况正在好转，

because each of us wanted to save the Amazon.

因为我们每一个人都想挽救亚马逊。

And during our discussions,

在我们的讨论中，

you couldn't really tell, I don't think,

你无法完全区分

who was from Greenpeace and who was from McDonald's.

谁来自绿色和平，谁来自麦当劳， 我也看不出。

So one of the best things we did

所以我们做的最棒的一件事，

is we traveled with them for nine days on a trip through the Amazon,

就是跟他们一起 参与了亚马逊九日游——

on the Greenpeace airplane, on the Greenpeace boat.

乘坐绿色和平的飞机， 搭乘绿色和平的船。

And I'll always remember,

我永远会记得，

imagine traveling hundreds of miles west of Manaus,

想象在亚马逊首都马瑙斯

the capital city of the Amazon.

以西数十里处穿梭时看到的

And it's so pristine beauty,

那种原始的美丽。

there's no man-made structures, there's no roads,

没有人造建筑，没有马路，

not one wire, not one house.

没有一根电线， 没有一座房子。

You would travel east of Manaus

而当你前往马瑙斯以东，

and you would see the blatant rainforest destruction.

就会看到明目张胆的雨林破坏。

So this very unlikely collaboration produced outstanding results.

所以这个非常不可能的合作 产出了优秀成果。

By working together,

通过合作，

we recruited over a dozen other retailers and suppliers

出于同样的原因，

我们又动员了 其他几十个零售商和供应商。

for the same cause.

And by the way, within three months,

在三个月内，

a moratorium on these clear-cutting practices

业界就颁布了

was announced by the industry.

一条禁止滥伐条例。

And Greenpeace themselves declared it as a spectacular drop in deforestation

绿色和平组织自己宣称 这一条例使得森林砍伐骤减，

and it's been in effect ever since.

并且始终能有效遏制森林砍伐。

Now, you think these types of collaborations that I've described

现在，你会觉得 我刚才讲的那些合作类型

would be commonplace today.

在今天非常普遍。

But they're not.

但其实不是。

When organizations are battered,

当组织受到抨击时，

the common response is to deny and push back,

普遍的回应是 否认、反抗、

put out some sort of lame statement

发表一些毫无说服力的声明,

and no progress is made at all.

事情毫无改观。

I say the alternative is really powerful.

我想说这个替代方法非常强大。

I mean, it's not going to fix every problem,

我不是说要去解决每一个问题，

and there's more to do for sure,

因为必然总有更多问题需要解决，

but this idea of working with critics

但是与批判者合作

and trying to do more good for society

并且尝试做更多好事 来回馈社会的想法

that actually is good for business,

对公司确实也是有利的。

believe me, it's possible.

相信我，这是可能的。

But it starts with the idea

但这始于一个假设：

that you need to assume the best intentions of your critics.

假设那些批判者 是出于一个良好的初衷。

Just like you have the best intentions.

就像你有一个很好的初衷。

And then secondly,

之后，

you need to look past a lot of these tactics.

你需要大量回顾这些策略。

I admit, I did not like a lot of the tactics

我承认，很多在我公司实行的策略

used on my company.

我不怎么喜欢。

But instead, focus on what the truth is,

但相反， 要关注什么是真相，

what's the right thing to do,

什么是应该做的正确的事？

what's the science, what's the facts.

什么是科学？ 什么是事实？

And lastly, you know, I would say,

最后，我会说，

give the critics the keys.

把钥匙交给批判者们，

Show them the back room.

让他们去后台看看。

Bring them there, don't hide the details,

把他们带过去，不要隐藏细节，

because if you want allies and support,

因为如果你想要同盟与支持，

you need to be open and transparent.

你需要坦诚和透明。

Now, whether you're a corporate suit,

不论你是企业门面，

whether you're a tree-hugger,

还是环保极端人士，

I say the next time you're criticized,

下次你被批判的时候，

reach out, listen, learn.

试着联系，倾听，学习。

You'll become better, your organization will become better,

你会变得更好， 你的组织会变得更好，

and you might make some good friends along the way.

沿途还可能交些好友。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）