Mammoths resurrected and other thoughts from a futurist | Stewart Brand and Chris Anderson

69,870 views ใƒป 2018-01-26

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Bill Kil ๊ฒ€ํ† : Young You
00:12
Chris Anderson: OK, Stewart,
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ํฌ๋ฆฌ์Šค ์•ค๋”์Šจ(CA): ๋„ค, ์ŠคํŠœ์–ดํŠธ ์”จ.
00:14
in the '60s, you -- I think it was '68 -- you founded this magazine.
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60๋…„๋Œ€, ์ œ ๊ธฐ์–ต์— 68๋…„์— ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด ์žก์ง€๋ฅผ ์ฐฝ๊ฐ„ํ•˜์…จ์ฃ .
00:19
Stewart Brand: Bravo! It's the original one.
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์ŠคํŠœ์–ดํŠธ ๋ธŒ๋žœ๋“œ(SB): ๋ธŒ๋ผ๋ณด! ์ด์   ์ฐพ๊ธฐ ํž˜๋“  ์›๋ณธ์ด๋„ค์š”.
00:21
That's hard to find.
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00:23
CA: Right. Issue One, right?
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CA: ๋„ค. ์ฐฝ๊ฐ„ํ˜ธ ๋งž์ฃ ?
00:24
SB: Mm hmm.
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SB: ๋งž์•„์š”.
00:25
CA: Why did that make so much impact?
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CA: ์™œ ์ด ์žก์ง€๊ฐ€ ํฐ ๋ฐ˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ถˆ๋Ÿฌ์™”์—ˆ๋‚˜์š”?
00:29
SB: Counterculture was the main event that I was part of at the time,
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SB: ๋ฐ˜๋ฌธํ™” ์ฃผ์˜๋Š” ๋‹น์‹œ์— ํฐ ํ™”๋‘์˜€๊ณ  ์ €๋„ ๋™์ฐธํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์ฃ .
00:33
and it was made up of hippies and New Left.
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ํžˆํ”ผ์™€ ์‹ ์ขŒ์ต(New Left)๋“ค์ด ์ฃผ๋กœ ์ฐธ์—ฌํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
00:37
That was sort of my contemporaries,
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๊ทธ๋•Œ ์ œ ์ฃผ๋ณ€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋ถ€๋ฅ˜์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:39
the people I was just slightly older than.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ์ค‘ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋‚˜์ด๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ผ ๋ฟ์ด์—ˆ์ฃ .
00:42
And my mode is to look at where the interesting flow is
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ ..
๊ทธ ์‹œ๋Œ€๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ๋Š” ์ €์˜ ๋ฐฉ์‹์€ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ํ๋ฆ„์ด ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ๊ณณ์„ ์ฐพ๊ณ 
00:47
and then look in the other direction.
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๊ทธ ํ๋ฆ„์„ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์—์„œ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์—ˆ์ฃ .
00:49
CA: (Laughs)
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CA: (์›ƒ์Œ)
00:51
SB: Partly, I was trained to do that as an army officer,
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SB: ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์œก๊ตฐ ์žฅ๊ต๋กœ์„œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ›ˆ๋ จ์„ ๋ฐ›์•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜๊ณ 
00:53
but partly, it's just a cheap heuristic to find originalities:
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๋…์ฐฝ์„ฑ์„ ์ฐพ๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ์ €๋งŒ์˜ ํŽธํ˜‘ํ•œ ๊ฒฝํ—˜์น™์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:56
don't look where everybody else is looking,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ณณ์„ ๋ณด์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ 
00:59
look the opposite way.
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
01:00
So the deal with counterculture is, the hippies were very romantic
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๋ฐ˜๋ฌธํ™” ์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ์ฃผ๋„ํ–ˆ๋˜ ํžˆํ”ผ๋“ค์€ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋‚ญ๋งŒ์ ์ด๊ณ 
01:04
and kind of against technology,
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๊ธฐ์ˆ ์— ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
01:06
except very good LSD from Sandoz,
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์–‘์งˆ์˜ ์‚ฐ๋„์ฆˆ ์‚ฐ LSD ํ™˜๊ฐ์ œ๋ฅผ ๋นผ๊ณ ๋Š”์š”.
01:09
and the New Left was against technology
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ ์ขŒ์ต์€ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ์ „๋ฉด ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
01:12
because they thought it was a power device.
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๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์˜ ๋„๊ตฌ๋กœ ์—ฌ๊ฒจ์„œ์˜€์–ด์š”.
01:15
Computers were: do not spindle, fold, or mutilate.
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์ปดํ“จํ„ฐ๋Š” ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๊ธฐ๊ณ„์ ์ด๊ณ  ์ฐจ๊ฐ‘๋‹ค๋Š” ๋“ฑ
01:19
Fight that.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‹์ด์—ˆ์ฃ .
01:20
And so, the Whole Earth Catalog was kind of a counter-counterculture thing
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ 'Whole Earth Catalog'๋Š” ๋ฐ˜๋ฌธํ™”๋ฅผ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ์„ฑํ–ฅ์˜ ์žก์ง€์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:25
in the sense that I bought Buckminster Fuller's idea
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๋ฒ„ํฌ๋ฏผ์Šคํ„ฐ ํ’€๋Ÿฌ์˜ ์‚ฌ์ƒ์„ ๋ฐ˜์˜ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
01:30
that tools of are of the essence.
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"๋„๊ตฌ๋Š” ํ•„์ˆ˜์ "์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ด€์  ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
01:33
Science and engineers basically define the world in interesting ways.
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๊ณผํ•™๊ณผ ๊ณตํ•™์€ ์„ธ์ƒ์„ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ ์žฌ์ •์˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:38
If all the politicians disappeared one week,
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ •์น˜์ธ์ด 1์ฃผ์ผ ๋™์•ˆ ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง„๋‹ค๋ฉด
01:41
it would be ... a nuisance.
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์กฐ๊ธˆ์€... ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
01:43
But if all the scientists and engineers disappeared one week,
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ณผํ•™์ž์™€ ๊ณตํ•™์ž๊ฐ€ 1์ฃผ์ผ ๋™์•ˆ ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง„๋‹ค๋ฉด
01:46
it would be way more than a nuisance.
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์•„์ฃผ ํฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:48
CA: We still believe that, I think.
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CA: ์ €ํฌ๋„ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์š”. ์•„๋งˆ๋„.
01:51
SB: So focus on that.
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SB: ๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜์ž๊ณ ์š”.
01:54
And then the New Left was talking about power to the people.
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์‹ ์ขŒ์ต์€ ๋Œ€์ค‘์—๊ฒŒ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์„ ๋Œ๋ ค์ค˜์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ฃผ์žฅํ–ˆ๊ณ 
01:59
And people like Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak
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์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธŒ ์žก์Šค๋‚˜ ์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธŒ ์›Œ์ฆˆ๋‹ˆ์•… ๊ฐ™์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€
02:02
cut that and just said, power to people,
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๋ฌด์—‡๋ณด๋‹ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๊ถŒ๋ ฅ์€
02:06
tools that actually work.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์“ธ๋ชจ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋„๊ตฌ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ฃผ์žฅํ–ˆ์ฃ .
02:08
And so, where Fuller was saying don't try to change human nature,
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๋ฒ„ํฌ๋ฏผ์Šคํ„ฐ ํ’€๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ์ธ๊ฐ„์˜ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋ ค ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ง๋ผ๊ณ  ํ–ˆ๋“ฏ์ด
02:13
people have been trying for a long time and it does not even bend,
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์ธ๊ฐ„์€ ์˜ค๋žœ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์—๋„ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์„ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์ง€๋งŒ
02:17
but you can change tools very easily.
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๋„๊ตฌ๋“ค์€ ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
02:19
So the efficient thing to do if you want to make the world better
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฏ€๋กœ ์„ธ์ƒ์„ ๊ฐœ์„ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ํšจ์œจ์ ์ธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€
์‹ ์ขŒ์ต์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ํ–‰๋™์„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
02:22
is not try to make people behave differently like the New Left was,
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02:25
but just give them tools that go in the right direction.
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์˜ฌ๋ฐ”๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๋„๊ตฌ๋“ค์„ ๊ทธ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:28
That was the Whole Earth Catalog.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์žก์ง€์˜ ๋ฐœ๊ฐ„ ์˜๋„์˜€์–ด์š”.
02:30
CA: And Stewart, the central image -- this is one of the first images,
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CA: ์žก์ง€ ํ‘œ์ง€ ์‚ฌ์ง„ ๋ง์”€์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
์ € ์‚ฌ์ง„์€ ์ธ๊ฐ„์ด ์ตœ์ดˆ๋กœ ์šฐ์ฃผ์—์„œ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณธ ์‚ฌ์ง„์ด์ฃ .
02:34
the first time people had seen Earth from outer space.
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02:36
That had an impact, too.
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์ € ํ‘œ์ง€ ์—ญ์‹œ ํ™”์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋˜์—ˆ์ฃ .
02:38
SB: It was kind of a chance that in the spring of '66,
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SB: 66๋…„ ๋ด„์— ์ €๋Š” ์ข‹์€ ๊ฒฝํ—˜์„ ํ–ˆ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
02:42
thanks to an LSD experience on a rooftop in San Francisco,
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์ƒŒํ”„๋ž€์‹œ์Šค์ฝ”์˜ ๊ฑด๋ฌผ ์˜ฅ์ƒ์—์„œ LSD ํ™˜๊ฐ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•œ ์ƒํƒœ๋กœ
02:45
I got thinking about, again, something that Fuller talked about,
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์ €๋Š” ์—ญ์‹œ๋‚˜ ํ’€๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ํ–ˆ์—ˆ๋˜ ๋ง์„ ๊ณฑ์”น๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
02:48
that a lot of people assume that the Earth is flat
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ํ‰ํ‰ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๊ณ 
02:50
and kind of infinite in terms of its resources,
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์ž์›์ด ๋ฌดํ•œ์ •ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
์‹ค์ œ๋กœ๋Š” ์ง€๊ตฌ๋Š” ๋™๊ทธ๋ž—๊ณ 
02:53
but once you really grasp that it's a sphere
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02:55
and that there's only so much of it,
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๊ทธ ์•ˆ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์ „๋ถ€๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑธ ์•Œ๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
02:57
then you start husbanding your resources
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๊ทธ์ œ์•ผ ์ž์›์„ ์•„๋ผ๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๊ณ 
์œ ํ•œํ•œ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์œผ๋กœ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๊ฒŒ ๋œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
03:00
and thinking about it as a finite system.
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๊ทธ๋Š” "์šฐ์ฃผ์„  ์ง€๊ตฌํ˜ธ"๋กœ ๋น„์œ ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:02
"Spaceship Earth" was his metaphor.
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03:04
And I wanted that to be the case,
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๋งž๋Š” ๋ง์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋˜ ๋„์ค‘
03:07
but on LSD I was getting higher and higher on my hundred micrograms
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LSD ํ™˜๊ฐ์ œ ๊ธฐ์šด ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์ œ ๋„‹์ด ์ƒŒํ”„๋ž€์‹œ์Šค์ฝ”๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
03:11
on the roof of San Francisco,
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์ ์  ๋– ์˜ค๋ฅด๋Š” ๋Š๋‚Œ์„ ๋ฐ›์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:14
and noticed that the downtown buildings which were right in front of me
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ์ž ๋ˆˆ์•ž์— ๋ณด์˜€๋˜ ์‹œ๋‚ด์˜ ๊ฑด๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด
03:19
were not all parallel, they were sort of fanned out like this.
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์„œ๋กœ ํ‰ํ–‰ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ  ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํœ˜์–ด ๋ณด์ด๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:22
And that's because they are on a curved surface.
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์ง€๊ตฌ์˜ ํ‘œ๋ฉด์ด ๊ณก๋ฉด์ด๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
03:26
And if I were even higher, I would see that even more clearly,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋” ๋†’์ด ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ”๋‹ค๋ฉด ๋” ๋ช…ํ™•ํžˆ ๋ณด์˜€์„ ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ 
๋” ๋†’์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฉด ๋” ๋ช…ํ™•ํ•ด์ง€๊ณ 
03:29
higher than that, more clearly still,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ค ์–ด๋Š ์ˆœ๊ฐ„ ๊ณก๋ฉด์ด ๋‹ซํžˆ๊ณ 
03:31
higher enough, and it would close,
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03:32
and you would get the circle of Earth from space.
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์ €๋Š” ์šฐ์ฃผ์—์„œ ๋‘ฅ๊ทผ ์ง€๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
๊ทธ๋•Œ ๋“  ์ƒ๊ฐ์ด..
03:35
And I thought, you know, we've been in space for 10 years --
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66๋…„ ๋‹น์‹œ์— ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ์šฐ์ฃผ๋ฅผ ํƒ์‚ฌํ•œ ์ง€ 10๋…„์ด ๋๋Š”๋ฐ
03:38
at that time, this is '66 --
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03:40
and the cameras had never looked back.
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์นด๋ฉ”๋ผ๋ฅผ ๋’ค๋กœ ํ–ฅํ•œ ์ ์ด ์—†์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
ํ•ญ์ƒ ์šฐ์ฃผ ๋ฐ–์„ ์ฐ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ์ง€๊ตฌ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€๋งŒ์„ ์ฐ์—ˆ์ฃ .
03:42
They'd always been looking out or looking at just parts of the Earth.
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03:45
And so I said, why haven't we seen a photograph of the whole Earth yet?
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์ € ์Šค์Šค๋กœ "์™œ ์•„์ง ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง€๊ตฌ ์ „์ฒด ์‚ฌ์ง„์„ ๋ณด์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์„๊นŒ?"๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ฌผ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
03:50
And it went around and NASA got it and senators, secretaries got it,
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๊ทธ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ด ๋Œ์•„์„œ ๋‚˜์‚ฌ์—๋„, ์ƒ์›์˜์›๊ณผ ์žฅ๊ด€์—๊ฒŒ๋„
03:53
and various people in the Politburo got it,
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๊ณต์‚ฐ์ฃผ์˜ ์ •์น˜๊ตญ์˜ ๋ช‡๋ช‡ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์—๊ฒŒ๋„ ๋‹ฟ๋”๋‹ˆ
03:55
and it went around and around.
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๊ณ„์† ํผ์ ธ๋‚˜๊ฐ”์ฃ .
03:57
And within two and a half years,
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๊ทธ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ 2๋…„ ๋ฐ˜ ํ›„, ์žก์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋ฐœ๊ฐ„๋  ์ฆˆ์Œ์—
03:58
about the time the Whole Earth Catalog came out,
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์‚ฌ์ง„๋“ค์ด ๋“ฑ์žฅํ–ˆ๊ณ 
04:01
these images started to appear,
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04:02
and indeed, they did transform everything.
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์ •๋ง๋กœ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ”๋†“์•˜์ฃ .
04:04
And my idea of hacking civilization
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฌธ๋ช…์„ ํ—ค์ง‘์–ด๋ณผ ๋•Œ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
04:09
is that you try to do something lazy and ingenious
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ํฐ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด์„œ ๊ธฐ๋ฐœํ•œ ์ผ์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋‚ด๊ณ 
04:13
and just sort of trick the situation.
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๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์ธ ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:16
So all of these photographs that you see --
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค์ด ๋ณด๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹  ์ด ์‚ฌ์ง„๋“ค์ด๋‚˜
04:18
and then the march for science last week,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ง€๋‚œ์ฃผ ๊ณผํ•™ํ–‰์ง„์—์„œ
04:20
they were carrying these Whole Earth banners and so on --
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋“ค๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋‹Œ ์ง€๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ ค์ง„ ํ”Œ๋ž˜์นด๋“œ ๋“ฑ..
04:23
I did that with no work.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ณ ์ƒ ์—†์ด ๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ํ•ด๋ƒˆ์–ด์š”.
04:26
I sold those buttons for 25 cents apiece.
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๊ทธ ๋ฐฐ์ง€๋ฅผ ๊ฐœ๋‹น ๊ฒจ์šฐ 25์„ผํŠธ์— ํŒ”์•˜์ฃ .
04:28
So, you know, tweaking the system
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒฝํ—˜์œผ๋กœ ๋ณผ ๋•Œ, ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์˜ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•œ ์ˆ˜์ •์€
04:32
is, I think, not only the most efficient way to make the system go
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์ ์–ด๋„ ์ œ๊ฒŒ๋Š” ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ ์ด๋„๋Š”
04:36
in interesting ways,
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ํšจ์œจ์ ์ธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด์ž ์•ˆ์ „ํ•œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ธ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:37
but in some ways, the safest way,
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์™œ๋ƒ๋ฉด ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ ์ „์ฒด๋ฅผ ํฌ๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๋‹ค ๋ณด๋ฉด
04:39
because when you try to horse the whole system around in a big way,
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04:42
you can get into big horsing-around problems,
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ํฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๋ด‰์ฐฉํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋งˆ๋ จ์ด์ง€๋งŒ
04:45
but if you tweak it, it will adjust to the tweak.
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•˜๋ฉด ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด ๋ณ€ํ™”์— ์ ์‘ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
04:48
CA: So since then, among many other things,
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CA: ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์€ ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ๋“ค์„ ํ•˜์‹œ์ง€๋งŒ
04:50
you've been regarded as a leading voice in the environmental movement,
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ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์šด๋™์—์„œ ์ธ์ •๋ฐ›๋Š” ํ›Œ๋ฅญํ•œ ์ง€์„ฑ์ด์‹œ๋ฉด์„œ ๋™์‹œ์—
04:53
but you are also a counterculturalist,
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๋ฐ˜๋ฌธํ™” ์ฃผ์˜์ž์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜์‹ ๋ฐ์š”.
04:55
and recently, you've been taking on a lot of,
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์ตœ๊ทผ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์ด ์ฃผ๋กœ ์ทจํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ํƒœ๋„๋Š”
04:59
well, you've been declaring
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ์„ ์–ธ๋“ค์€
05:00
what a lot of environmentalists almost believe are heresies.
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๋งŽ์€ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์šด๋™๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ๊ฑฐ์˜ ์ด๋‹จ์œผ๋กœ ์ทจ๊ธ‰ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
05:03
I kind of want to explore a couple of those.
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๊ทธ์ค‘ ๋ช‡ ๊ฐœ๋ฅผ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด๊ณ ์ž ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:05
I mean, tell me about this image here.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์ด ์‚ฌ์ง„์— ๊ด€ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์”€ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ์ฃ .
05:08
SB: Ha-ha!
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SB: ํ•˜ํ•˜!
05:10
That's a National Geographic image
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋‚ด์…”๋„ ์ง€์˜ค๊ทธ๋ž˜ํ”ฝ์—์„œ ๋งŒ๋“ 
05:12
of what is called the mammoth steppe,
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ ์Šคํ… ์ง€๋Œ€๋ผ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง€์—ญ์˜ ์ด๋ฏธ์ง€์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
05:16
what the far north, the sub-Arctic and Arctic region, used to look like.
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๋ถ๊ทน๊ณผ ๊ทธ ์ฃผ๋ณ€ ์ง€์—ญ์„ ํฌํ•จํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทน์ง€๋ฐฉ๋„ ์ „์—๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ชจ์Šต์ด์—ˆ์ฃ .
05:20
In fact, the whole world used to look like that.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค ์˜จ ์„ธ์ƒ์ด ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ชจ์Šต์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:24
What we find in South Africa and the Serengeti now,
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ํ˜„์žฌ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋‚จ๋ถ€ ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด๋‚˜ ์„ธ๋ ๊ฒŒํ‹ฐ์—์„œ ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
05:27
lots of big animals,
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ํฐ ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด ํ™œ๋™ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ชจ์Šต์ด
05:29
was the case in this part of Canada,
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์ง€๊ธˆ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์บ๋‚˜๋‹ค๋ผ๋“ ์ง€
05:32
throughout the US, throughout Eurasia, throughout the world.
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ๋„, ์œ ๋ผ์‹œ์•„๋„ ๋ชจ๋“  ์„ธ์ƒ์ด ๋˜‘๊ฐ™์•˜์–ด์š”.
05:35
This was the norm
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ •์ƒ์ด์—ˆ๊ณ 
05:37
and can be again.
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๋‹ค์‹œ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
05:40
So in a sense,
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ณด์ž๋ฉด
05:42
my long-term goal at this point is to not only bring back those animals
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์ œ ํ˜„์žฌ์˜ ์žฅ๊ธฐ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋Š”
์ด ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค๊ณผ ๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์‚ฌ๋Š” ์ดˆ์›์„ ๋ณต๊ตฌํ•˜์—ฌ
05:47
and the grassland they made,
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05:50
which could be a climate stabilization system over the long run,
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์ด๋“ค์„ ๊ธฐํ›„ ์•ˆ์ •ํ™” ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์œผ๋กœ ์ž‘์šฉํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋ฟ๋งŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
05:55
but even the mammoths there in the background
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์‚ฌ์ง„์˜ ๋ฐฐ๊ฒฝ์— ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋„ ๋ณต์› ๊ณ„ํš์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:57
that are part of the story.
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05:59
And I think that's probably a 200-year goal.
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—” 200๋…„ ์ •๋„ ์†Œ์š”๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:04
Maybe in 100, by the end of this century,
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ํ˜น์€ 100๋…„, ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ์ด๋ฒˆ ์„ธ๊ธฐ๋ง ์ฆˆ์Œ์—
06:06
we should be able to dial down the extinction rate
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ฉธ์ข…์˜ ํ๋ฆ„์„ ๊ฑฐ๊พธ๋กœ ๋˜๋Œ๋ ค์„œ
์‚ฌ์ง„์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์žฌํ˜„ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:09
to sort of what it's been in the background.
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06:11
Bringing back this amount of bio-abundance will take longer,
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์ด ์ •๋„์˜ ์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์  ํ’๋ถ€๋„์˜ ์žฌํ˜„์€ ์˜ค๋ž˜ ๊ฑธ๋ฆฌ์ง€๋งŒ ํ•ด๋ณผ ๋งŒํ•œ ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
06:14
but it's worth doing.
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CA: ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ ์–˜๊ธฐ๋Š” ๋‹ค์‹œ ํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜์ฃ .
06:15
CA: We'll come back to the mammoths,
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06:17
but explain how we should think of extinctions.
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๊ทธ ์ „์— ์ €ํฌ์—๊ฒŒ ๋ฉธ์ข…์— ๊ด€ํ•ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋Š”์ง€ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ์ฃ .
06:20
Obviously, one of the huge concerns right now
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๋ช…๋ฐฑํžˆ ํ˜„์žฌ ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๊ณ ๋ฏผ๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
06:24
is that extinction is happening at a faster rate than ever in history.
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์—ญ์‚ฌ์ƒ ๊ทธ ์–ด๋Š ๋•Œ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋ฉธ์ข…์˜ ์†๋„๊ฐ€ ๋น ๋ฅด๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:28
That's the meme that's out there.
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:31
How should we think of it?
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํŒ๋‹จํ•ด์•ผ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
06:33
SB: The story that's out there
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SB: ๋ฐ”๊นฅ์—์„œ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋“ค์€
06:34
is that we're in the middle of the Sixth Extinction
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์ง€๊ตฌ์˜ 6๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข…์ด ์ด๋ฏธ ํ•œ์ฐธ ์ง„ํ–‰ ์ค‘์ด๋ผ๋Š๋‹ˆ
06:37
or maybe in the beginning of the Sixth Extinction.
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ํ˜น์€ ์ตœ๊ทผ ๋“ค์–ด ์‹œ์ž‘ ๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๋Š๋‹ˆ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:39
Because we're in the de-extinction business,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” 'Revive & Restore'๋ผ๋Š” ๋‹จ์ฒด์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜
06:42
the preventing-extinction business with Revive & Restore,
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๋ฉธ์ข… ์—ญํ–‰, ๋ฉธ์ข… ๋ฐฉ์ง€ ์‚ฌ์—…์„ ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
06:45
we started looking at what's actually going on with extinction.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋ฉธ์ข…์ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ง„ํ–‰ ์ค‘์ธ์ง€ ์กฐ์‚ฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ์ž ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ๋Š” ๋ชน์‹œ ๋ณต์žกํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ž๋ฃŒ๋“ค์ด ์–ฝํ˜€์žˆ์Œ์—๋„
06:48
And it turns out, there's a very confused set of data out there
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06:52
which gets oversimplified
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์ง€๋‚˜์น˜๊ฒŒ ๋‹จ์ˆœํ™”๋œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋งŒ
06:55
into the narrative of we're becoming ...
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์–ธ๊ธ‰๋˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐํ˜€์กŒ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:58
Here are five mass extinctions that are indicated by the yellow triangles,
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์ด ๊ทธ๋ž˜ํ”„์— 5๋ฒˆ์˜ ๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข… ์‹œ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋…ธ๋ž€ ์‚ผ๊ฐํ˜•์œผ๋กœ ํ‘œ์‹œํ•ด๋‘์—ˆ๊ณ 
07:03
and we're now next.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์— ๋”ฐ๋ฅด๋ฉด ์ด์ œ๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์ฐจ๋ก€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:06
The last one there on the far right
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์ œ์ผ ์˜ค๋ฅธ์ชฝ์— ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์‚ผ๊ฐํ˜•์€
07:08
was the meteor that struck 66 million years ago
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6,600๋งŒ ๋…„ ์ „ ๊ณต๋ฃก์‹œ๋Œ€์— ์šด์„ ์ถฉ๋Œ๋กœ ๋ฐœ์ƒํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:11
and did in the dinosaurs.
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07:14
And the story is, we're the next meteor.
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ์šด์„ ์ถฉ๋Œ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:17
Well, here's the deal.
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์ง€๊ธˆ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ๋Š” ์ œ ์˜๊ฒฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:18
I wound up researching this for a paper I wrote,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ด ์ฃผ์ œ๋กœ ์“ด ๋…ผ๋ฌธ์—์„œ ๋‚ด๋ฆฐ ๊ฒฐ๋ก ์— ์˜ํ•˜๋ฉด
07:21
that a mass extinction is when 75 percent of all the species
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๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข…์€ ์„ธ์ƒ์— ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋Š” ์ข…๋“ค์˜ 75%๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง€๋Š” ์‹œ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:27
in the world go extinct.
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07:31
Well, there's on the order of five-and-a-half-million species,
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์„ธ์ƒ์—๋Š” ๋Œ€๋žต 550๋งŒ์˜ ์ข…์ด ์กด์žฌํ•˜๊ณ 
07:34
of which we've identified one and a half million.
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ทธ ์ค‘ 150๋งŒ ์ข…์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:36
Another 14,000 are being identified every year.
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์ถ”๊ฐ€๋กœ ํ•ด๋งˆ๋‹ค 14,000์ข…์„ ๋ฐœ๊ฒฌํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:39
There's a lot of biology going on out there.
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์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๋Š” ์ง€๊ธˆ๋„ ํ™œ๋ฐœํžˆ ์ง„ํ–‰ ์ค‘์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:42
Since 1500,
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1500๋…„ ์ด๋ž˜๋กœ
07:45
about 500 species have gone extinct,
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500์ข… ์ •๋„๊ฐ€ ๋ฉธ์ข…๋˜์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
07:49
and you'll see the term "mass extinction" kind of used in strange ways.
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"๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข…"์ด๋ž€ ๋ง์ด ์กฐ๊ธˆ ์ด์ƒํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์“ฐ์ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Œ์„ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:53
So there was, about a year and a half ago,
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๋Œ€๋žต 1๋…„ ๋ฐ˜ ์ „, ๋‰ด์š• ํƒ€์ž„์Šค ์ผ ๋ฉด์— ์‹ค๋ฆฐ
07:55
a front-page story by Carl Zimmer in the New York Times,
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์นผ ์ง๋จธ ๊ธฐ์ž๊ฐ€ ์ทจ์žฌํ•œ ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ์˜ ์ œ๋ชฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:58
"Mass Extinction in the Oceans, Broad Studies Show."
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"์ „๋ฐ˜์  ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์—์„œ ๋“œ๋Ÿฌ๋‚œ ํ•ด์–‘์ƒํƒœ์˜ ๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข…."
08:02
And then you read into the article, and it mentions that since 1500,
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๊ธฐ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์ฝ์–ด๋ณด๋ฉด 1500๋…„ ์ดํ›„์—
08:06
15 species -- one, five -- have gone extinct in the oceans,
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์—ด ๋‹ค์„ฏ ๊ฐœ์˜ ์ข…, ์ฆ‰ 15๊ฐœ์˜ ์ข…์ด ํ•ด์–‘์—์„œ ๋ฉธ์ข…๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:11
and, oh, by the way, none in the last 50 years.
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์•„, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ง€๋‚œ 50๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ์€ ์—†์—ˆ๋Œ€์š”.
08:14
And you read further into the story, and it's saying,
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๊ธฐ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ๋” ๋“ค์—ฌ๋‹ค๋ณด๋ฉด ๊ทธ ๋‚ด์šฉ์ด
08:16
the horrifying thing that's going on
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๋ฐ”๋‹ค์—์„œ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ์ผ์ด ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
08:18
is that the fisheries are so overfishing the wild fishes,
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์–ด์—…์— ์˜ํ•œ ์•ผ์ƒ ๋ฌผ๊ณ ๊ธฐ์˜ ๋‚จํš์œผ๋กœ ์ธํ•ด
08:22
that it is taking down the fish populations in the oceans
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ํ•ด์–‘ ์–ด๋ฅ˜์˜ ๊ฐœ์ฒด ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€ 38% ๊ฐ์†Œํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:25
by 38 percent.
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08:27
That's the serious thing.
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์ด๊ฑด ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•œ ์ผ์ด ๋งž์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:29
None of those species are probably going to go extinct.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ์ค‘ ํ•œ ์ข…๋„ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋ฉธ์ข…ํ•˜์ง„ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:32
So you've just put, that headline writer
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ์ด๊ฑด ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ ์—†๋Š” ์ œ๋ชฉ ์ž‘๊ฐ€๊ฐ€
08:36
put a panic button
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๊ณ ์˜๋กœ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์— ๋ถˆ์•ˆ๊ฐ์„ ์ฆํญ์‹œํ‚จ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
08:38
on the top of the story.
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08:40
It's clickbait kind of stuff,
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์†๋œ ๋ง๋กœ ํด๋ฆญ์„ ์œ ๋„ํ•œ ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
08:41
but it's basically saying, "Oh my God, start panicking,
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"์„ธ์ƒ์—, ๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ธด์žฅํ•ด! ๋ฐ”๋‹ค์—์„œ ์ƒ๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด ๋‹ค ์‚ฌ๋ผ์งˆ์ง€๋„ ๋ชฐ๋ผ!"
08:45
we're going to lose all the species in the oceans."
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๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
08:47
Nothing like that is in prospect.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ๋Š” ๋น„์Šทํ•œ ์ผ๋„ ์ƒ๊ธฐ์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์–ด์š”.
08:50
And in fact, what I then started looking into in a little more detail,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋” ์—ฐ๊ตฌํ•˜๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ์ฐพ์€ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
08:55
the Red List shows about 23,000 species that are considered threatened
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๊ตญ์ œ์ž์—ฐ๋ณดํ˜ธ์—ฐ๋งน, IUCN์ด ๋ฐœํ‘œํ•œ ์ ์ƒ‰ ๋ชฉ๋ก์— ์˜ํ•˜๋ฉด
08:59
at one level or another,
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์•ฝ 23,000์ข…์ด 1๋‹จ๊ณ„ ์ด์ƒ์˜ ๋ฉธ์ข…์œ„๊ธฐ์— ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:00
coming from the International Union for the Conservation of Nature, the IUCN.
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09:04
And Nature Magazine had a piece surveying the loss of wildlife,
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์•ผ์ƒ์˜ ํ”ผํ•ด์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋„ค์ด์ฒ˜์˜ ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ์—์„œ๋Š” ๊ฐ™์€ ์ •๋ณด๋ฅผ
09:09
and it said,
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"์ด ๋ชจ๋“  23,000์ข…์ด ๋‹ค์Œ ์„ธ๊ธฐ๊นŒ์ง€ ๋ฉธ์ข…ํ•˜๊ณ 
09:11
"If all of those 23,000 went extinct
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09:14
in the next century or so,
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09:16
and that rate of extinction carried on for more centuries and millennia,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ๋ฉธ์ข…์†๋„๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค์Œ ์„ธ๊ธฐ์™€ ์ƒˆ์ฒœ๋…„๊นŒ์ง€ ์ด์–ด์ง„๋‹ค๋ฉด
09:21
then we might be at the beginning of a sixth extinction.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” 6์ฐจ ๋Œ€๋ฉธ์ข…์„ ๋งˆ์ฃผํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ผ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค"๊ณ  ํ‘œํ˜„ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:25
So the exaggeration is way out of hand.
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๊ณผ์žฅ์ด ๋„๊ฐ€ ์ง€๋‚˜์ณ์š”.
09:27
But environmentalists always exaggerate.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์šด๋™๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ํ•ญ์ƒ ๊ณผ์žฅ์„ ํ•˜์ฃ .
09:29
That's a problem.
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:31
CA: I mean, they probably feel a moral responsibility to,
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CA: ๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๋„๋•์  ์ฑ…์ž„๊ฐ์„ ๋Š๊ปด์„œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ ์•„๋‹๊นŒ์š”?
09:34
because they care so much about the thing that they are looking at,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๋งˆ์ฃผํ•œ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ณด์ด๋‹ˆ
09:37
and unless you bang the drum for it, maybe no one listens.
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๋ถ์„ ๋‘๋“ค๊ฒจ์„œ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ์ด‰๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ง€์š”.
09:40
SB: Every time somebody says moral this or moral that --
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SB: ํ•ญ์ƒ ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ฒƒ์ €๊ฒƒ์— ๋„๋•์„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
09:43
"moral hazard," "precautionary principle" --
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์ฆ‰ "๋„๋•์  ์œ„ํ—˜," "์‚ฌ์ „์˜ˆ๋ฐฉ์›์น™" ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€
09:46
these are terms that are used to basically say no to things.
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๊ทผ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ๋ถ€์ •ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
CA: (์›ƒ์Œ)
09:51
CA: So the problem isn't so much fish extinction, animal extinction,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ์ง„์งœ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ์–ด๋ฅ˜ ๋ฐ ๋™๋ฌผ ๋ฉธ์ข…์ด ์•„๋‹Œ
09:55
it's fish flourishing, animal flourishing,
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์–ด๋ฅ˜ ๋ฐ ๋™๋ฌผ ๊ฐœ์ฒด ์ˆ˜์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ 
09:58
that we're crowding them to some extent?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐœ์ฒด ์ˆ˜๋ฅผ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์ž˜ ์œ ์ง€ํ•˜๋Š๋ƒ์˜ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ตฐ์š”.
10:00
SB: Yeah, and I think we are crowding, and there is losses going on.
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SB: ๋„ค, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ธ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ํฌํ™”๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ด๋กœ ์ธํ•œ ํ”ผํ•ด๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ธฐ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:04
The major losses are caused by agriculture,
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์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ํ”ผํ•ด๋“ค์€ ๋†์—…์— ์˜ํ•ด ๋ฐœ์ƒํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์œผ๋ฏ€๋กœ
10:07
and so anything that improves agriculture and basically makes it more condensed,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฏ€๋กœ ๋†์—…์„ ๊ฐœ๋Ÿ‰ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
๋” ๋ฐ€์ง‘์‹œ์ผœ ์ƒ์‚ฐ์œจ์„ ๋†’์ด๋Š” ์กฐ์น˜๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:13
more highly productive,
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10:15
including GMOs, please,
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๋ถ€๋”” GMO๋„ ํฌํ•จํ•ด์„œ์š”.
10:17
but even if you want to do vertical farms in town,
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์ตœ๊ทผ์—๋Š” ๋„์‹œ๋‚˜ ๋†์žฅ ๋‚ด๋ถ€์— ์ˆ˜์งํ˜• ๋†์žฅ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
10:19
including inside farms,
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10:21
all the things that have been learned about how to grow pot in basements,
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์ง€ํ•˜์—์„œ ์‹๋ฌผ์„ ๊ธฐ๋ฅด๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋“ค์„ ๋ชจ๋‘ ๋ชจ์•„์„œ
10:24
is now being applied to growing vegetables inside containers --
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์ปจํ…Œ์ด๋„ˆ ์•ˆ์—์„œ ์‹๋ฌผ์„ ํ‚ค์šธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:27
that's great, that's all good stuff,
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์ข‹์€ ์ผ์ด์ฃ , ์ •๋ง ์ข‹์€ ์ผ์ด์—์š”.
10:29
because land sparing is the main thing we can do for nature.
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ž์—ฐ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ๋Š”
๋•…์„ ๋Œ๋ ค์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ œ์ผ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:34
People moving to cities is good.
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋„์‹œ๋กœ ๋ชฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ˜„์ƒ๋„ ๋ฐ”๋žŒ์งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:36
Making agriculture less of a destruction of the landscape is good.
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๋†์—…์„ ๋œ ์ง€ํ˜• ํŒŒ๊ดด์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋„ ์ข‹์€ ์ผ์ด์—์š”.
10:41
CA: There people talking about bringing back species, rewilding ...
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CA: ์ผ๋ถ€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์€ ์ข…์˜ ํšŒ๊ท€, ์ฆ‰, ์•ผ์ƒ์œผ๋กœ ํšŒ๊ท€๋ฅผ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
10:44
Well, first of all, rewilding species: What's the story with these guys?
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๋จผ์ €, ์•ผ์ƒ ํšŒ๊ท€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ์ด ์นœ๊ตฌ๋“ค์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ์ฃ ?
10:47
SB: Ha-ha! Wolves.
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SB: ํ•˜ํ•˜! ๋Š‘๋Œ€๋“ค์ด๊ตฐ์š”.
10:50
Europe, connecting to the previous point,
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๋ฐฉ๊ธˆ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•œ ๋…ผ์ ๊ณผ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด์š”.
10:53
we're now at probably peak farmland,
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๋Š” ๋†์—… ๋ฉด์ ์ด ์ •์ ์— ๋‹ฌํ–ˆ๊ณ 
10:56
and, by the way, in terms of population,
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ํ•œํŽธ ์ธ๊ตฌ ์ธก๋ฉด์—์„œ
10:57
we are already at peak children being alive.
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์ด๋ฏธ ์œ ์•„์˜ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์ •์ ์— ๋‹ฌํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:00
Henceforth, there will be fewer and fewer children.
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์œ ์•„์˜ ์ˆ˜๋Š” ๊ฐˆ์ˆ˜๋ก ์ค„์–ด๋“ค ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:03
We are in the last doubling of human population,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ธ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰์œผ๋กœ 2๋ฐฐ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๋Š” ์ง€์ ์— ๋‹ฌํ–ˆ๊ณ 
11:06
and it will get to nine, maybe nine and a half billion,
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์ธ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ 90์–ต, ํ˜น์€ 95์–ต์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•œ ํ›„์—๋Š”
11:10
and then start not just leveling off, but probably going down.
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๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ ์œ ์ง€๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ  ์ ์  ์ค„์–ด๋“ค ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:14
Likewise, farmland has now peaked,
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๋†์ง€ ๋ฉด์  ์—ญ์‹œ ์ •์ ์— ๋‹ฌํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
11:17
and one of the ways that plays out in Europe
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ํ•˜๋‚˜์˜ ์˜ˆ๋กœ์„œ ํ˜„์žฌ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ์—์„œ๋Š”
11:21
is there's a lot of abandoned farmland now,
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ๋†์ž‘์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋ฒ„๋ ค์ง„ ์ƒํƒœ์ด๊ณ 
11:24
which immediately reforests.
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์‹ ์†ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์‚ผ๋ฆผํ™” ๋˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:26
They don't do wildlife corridors in Europe.
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์œ ๋Ÿฝ์—์„  ์•ผ์ƒ๋™๋ฌผ ํ†ตํ–‰๋กœ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:28
They don't need to, because so many of these farms are connected
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๊ทธ๋Ÿด ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋†์ง€๋“ค์ด ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
11:32
that they've made reforested wildlife corridors,
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์‚ผ๋ฆผํ™”๋œ ๋†์ง€๊ฐ€ ํ†ต๋กœ ๊ธฐ๋Šฅ์„ ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
11:35
that the wolves are coming back, in this case, to Spain.
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์‚ฌ์ง„์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ, ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ๋Š‘๋Œ€๊ฐ€ ์ŠคํŽ˜์ธ์— ๋˜๋Œ์•„์™”์ฃ .
11:38
They've gotten all the way to the Netherlands.
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์ € ๋ฉ€๋ฆฌ ๋„ค๋œ๋ž€๋“œ๊นŒ์ง€๋„ ์ด๋™ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
11:40
There's bears coming back. There's lynx coming back.
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๊ณฐ๋„ ๋˜๋Œ์•„์™”๊ณ , ์‚ต๋„ ๋˜๋Œ์•„์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:44
There's the European jackal. I had no idea such a thing existed.
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์œ ๋Ÿฝ ์ž์นผ๋„ ๋˜๋Œ์•„์™”๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์š”. ์ „์—” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋™๋ฌผ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€๋„ ๋ชฐ๋ž์–ด์š”.
11:47
They're coming back from Italy to the rest of Europe.
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์ดํƒˆ๋ฆฌ์•„๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์œ ๋Ÿฝ ์ „์—ญ์œผ๋กœ ๋˜๋Œ์•„๊ฐ€๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
11:50
And unlike here, these are all predators, which is kind of interesting.
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ํฝ ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กœ์šด ์ ์€ ์ด ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด ๋ชจ๋‘ ํฌ์‹์ž๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:53
They are being welcomed by Europeans. They've been missed.
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์œ ๋Ÿฝ์ธ๋“ค์€ ์ด๋“ค์„ ํ™˜์˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”. ๋Œ์•„์˜จ ํƒ•์•„ ๊ฐ™๋‹ฌ๊นŒ์š”.
11:57
CA: And counterintuitively, when you bring back the predators,
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CA: ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ง๊ด€๊ณผ๋Š” ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ ํฌ์‹์ž๊ฐ€ ๋Œ์•„์˜ค๋ฉด
์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„ ๊ฐœ์ฒด์˜ ๋‹ค์–‘์„ฑ์ด ์ค„์–ด๋“ค๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹ค
12:00
it actually increases rather than reduces
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12:02
the diversity of the underlying ecosystem often.
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•œ๋‹ค๋˜๋ฐ์š”.
12:04
SB: Yeah, generally predators and large animals --
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SB: ๋„ค, ์ „๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ํฌ์‹์ž๋‚˜ ๊ฑฐ๋Œ€ ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด
12:08
large animals and large animals with sharp teeth and claws --
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ํฐ ๋™๋ฌผ์ด๋‚˜ ๋พฐ์กฑํ•œ ์ด๋นจ๊ณผ ๋ฐœํ†ฑ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ํฐ ๋™๋ฌผ์ด
12:11
are turning out to be highly important for a really rich ecosystem.
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์ •๋ง ํ’๋ถ€ํ•œ ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•ด ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ฐํ˜€์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:16
CA: Which maybe brings us to this rather more dramatic rewilding project
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CA: ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ๋”์šฑ ๋“œ๋ผ๋งˆ ๊ฐ™์€ ์•ผ์ƒ ํšŒ๊ท€ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๊ฐ€ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์กŒ๊ณ 
12:20
that you've got yourself involved in.
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋„ ๊ด€์—ฌํ•˜์‹  ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
12:22
Why would someone want to bring back these terrifying woolly mammoths?
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์ด ๋ฌด์„œ์šด ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋“ค์„ ๋ณต์›ํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ์ด์œ ๊ฐ€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
12:25
SB: Hmm. Asian elephants are the closest relative
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SB: ํ . ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์šด ์นœ์ฒ™์€ ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:28
to the woolly mammoth,
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12:31
and they're about the same size, genetically very close.
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ํฌ๊ธฐ๋„ ๋น„์Šทํ•˜๊ณ  ์œ ์ „์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋งค์šฐ ๊ฐ€๊น์ฃ .
12:34
They diverged quite recently in evolutionary history.
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์ง„ํ™” ์—ญ์‚ฌ์—์„œ ๋‘˜์€ ์ตœ๊ทผ์— ๋ถ„ํ™”๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:38
The Asian elephants are closer to woolly mammoths
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋Š” ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ๋ณด๋‹ค๋„ ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ์™€ ๋น„์Šทํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:40
than they are to African elephants,
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12:42
but they're close enough to African elephants
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ์™€๋„ ์ถฉ๋ถ„ํžˆ ๋น„์Šทํ•ด์„œ
12:44
that they have successfully hybridized.
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ํ˜ผ์ข… ๊ต๋ฐฐ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:47
So we're working with George Church at Harvard,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ•˜๋ฒ„๋“œ ๋Œ€ํ•™์˜ ์กฐ์ง€ ์ฒ˜์น˜ ๊ต์ˆ˜์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ผํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
12:51
who has already moved the genes for four major traits
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์ด๋ฏธ 4๊ฐœ์˜ ์ฃผ์š”ํ•œ ํ˜•์งˆ ์œ ์ „์ž๋“ค์„
12:55
from the now well-preserved, well-studied genome of the woolly mammoth,
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์ž˜ ๋ณด์กด๋œ ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ์˜ ๊ฒŒ๋†ˆ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ๋ถ„๋ฆฌํ•ด๋ƒˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:01
thanks to so-called "ancient DNA analysis."
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"๊ณ ๋Œ€ DNA ๋ถ„์„" ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ–ˆ์ฃ .
13:05
And in the lab, he has moved those genes into living Asian elephant cell lines,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์†Œ์—์„œ ์ด ์œ ์ „์ž๋“ค์„ ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์„ธํฌ ๋ผ์ธ์—
13:10
where they're taking up their proper place thanks to CRISPR.
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์œ ์ „์ž ๊ฐ€์œ„ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ์ ์ ˆํ•œ ์œ„์น˜์— ์ด์‹ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:14
I mean, they're not shooting the genes in like you did with genetic engineering.
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์œ ์ „์ž ๊ฐ€์œ„๋Š” ๊ธฐ์กด์˜ ์œ ์ „๊ณตํ•™์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์œ ์ „์ž๋ฅผ ์„ž๊ธฐ๋งŒ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:18
Now with CRISPR you're editing, basically, one allele,
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์ด ๋„๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋ฉด ํ˜•์งˆ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋ฅผ ํŽธ์ง‘ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
13:21
and replacing it in the place of another allele.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ˜•์งˆ๋กœ ๊ต์ฒดํ•  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:25
So you're now getting basically Asian elephant germline cells
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ..
์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์–ป์–ด์ง„ ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ƒ์‹์„ธํฌ ๋ผ์ธ์€
13:31
that are effectively in terms of the traits that you're going for
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์—ฐ๊ตฌ์ž๊ฐ€ ์›ํ•˜๋Š” ํ˜•์งˆ์„ ํšจ์œจ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:35
to be comfortable in the Arctic,
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๋ถ๊ทน์— ์ ์‘ํ•˜๋Š” ํ˜•์งˆ์ด ์ƒ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
13:38
you're getting them in there.
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๋ถ๊ทน์—์„œ ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:40
So we go through the process
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๊ทธ๋‹ค์Œ ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋Š”
13:41
of getting that through a surrogate mother,
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์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ ๋Œ€๋ฆฌ๋ชจ์—๊ฒŒ ์ฐฉ์ƒ์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:44
an Asian elephant mother.
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13:46
You can get a proxy, as it's being called by conservation biologists,
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์ด ๊ณผ์ •์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ๋ณด์กด์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์ž์˜ ์šฉ์–ด๋กœ
๋Œ€๋ฆฌ(Proxy) ๊ฐœ์ฒด, ์ฆ‰ ํ„ธ๋ณต์ˆญ์ด ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:50
of the woolly mammoth,
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13:52
that is effectively a hairy, curly-trunked, Asian elephant
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์ด ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ์˜ ์‹ค์ฒด๋Š” ํ„ธ์ด ํ’์„ฑํ•˜๊ณ  ์ฝ”๊ฐ€ ๊ตฝ์–ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ๋กœ์„œ
13:57
that is perfectly comfortable in the sub-Arctic.
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๋ถ๊ทน ์ธ๊ทผ์—์„œ ์™„๋ฒฝํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ ์‘ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ข…์ธ ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
14:00
Now, it's the case, so many people say,
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์ด์ฏค ๋˜๋ฉด ์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ฌป์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:02
"Well, how are you going to get them there?
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"๊ทผ๋ฐ ๊ฑ”๋„ค๋ฅผ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ถ๊ทน์— ๋ณด๋‚ด๋ ค๊ณ ?
14:04
And Asian elephants, they don't like snow, right?"
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ˆˆ์„ ์‹ซ์–ดํ•˜์ž–์•„?"
14:07
Well, it turns out, they do like snow.
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๊ทผ๋ฐ, ์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ด๋“ค์€ ๋ˆˆ์„ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:09
There's some in an Ontario zoo
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์˜จํƒ€๋ฆฌ์˜ค ๋™๋ฌผ์›์— ๋ช‡ ๋งˆ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋ณด๋‹ค ํฐ ๋ˆˆ๋ฉ์ด๋“ค์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:10
that have made snowballs bigger than people.
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14:12
They just love -- you know, with a trunk, you can start a little thing,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋“ค์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ฝ”๋กœ ์ž‘์€ ๋ญ‰์น˜๋ฅผ ๊ตด๋ ค์„œ
ํฌ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค๋ฉด์„œ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:16
roll it and make it bigger.
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14:18
And then people say,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
"๊ทธ๋ž˜. ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์ž„์‹  ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„์ด 22๊ฐœ์›”์ด๋‚˜ ๋˜๊ณ 
14:20
"Yeah, but it's 22 months of gestation.
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14:25
This kind of cross-species cloning is tricky business, anyway.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ด์ข… ๊ฐ„์˜ ๋ณต์ œ๋Š” ๊ฝค๋‚˜ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์ด์ž–์•„.
14:30
Are you going to lose some of the surrogate Asian elephant mothers?"
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์•„์‹œ์•„ ์ฝ”๋ผ๋ฆฌ ๋Œ€๋ฆฌ๋ชจ๊ฐ€ ๋ช‡๋ช‡ ์ฃฝ์ง€ ์•Š์„๊นŒ?"
14:33
And then George Church says, "That's all right.
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์ฒ˜์น˜ ๊ต์ˆ˜์˜ ๋‹ต์€ ์ด๋ ‡์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
"๊ดœ์ฐฎ์•„์š”. ์ธ๊ณต ์ž๊ถ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ ๋ฐฐ์–‘ํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค."
14:35
We'll do an artificial uterus and grow them that way."
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌ๊ฒ ์ฃ . "๊ทธ๋ž˜์š”. 22์„ธ๊ธฐ์ฏค์—์š”?"
14:38
Then people say, "Yeah, next century, maybe,"
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14:40
except the news came out this week in Nature
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋‹น์žฅ ์ด๋ฒˆ ์ฃผ ๋„ค์ด์ฒ˜์—
14:42
that there's now an artificial uterus in which they've grown a lamb
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์ธ๊ณต ์ž๊ถ์œผ๋กœ ์–‘์„ 4์ฃผ ์ฐจ๊นŒ์ง€ ๊ธธ๋ €๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:47
to four weeks.
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14:48
That's halfway through its gestation period.
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์–‘์˜ ์ž„์‹  ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„์˜ ์ ˆ๋ฐ˜์ด์ฃ .
14:52
So this stuff is moving right along.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ ์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ๋„ ํ•ด๊ฒฐ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:54
CA: But why should we want a world where --
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CA: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ชฉ์ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์„ค๋ช…์„ ๋” ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ์ฃ .
14:57
Picture a world where there are thousands of these things
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ ์ˆ˜์ฒœ ๋งˆ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‹œ๋ฒ ๋ฆฌ์•„๋ฅผ ํšก๋‹จํ•˜๋Š” ์„ธ์ƒ์ด
14:59
thundering across Siberia.
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15:01
Is that a better world?
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๋” ๋‚˜์€ ์„ธ์ƒ์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
15:03
SB: Potentially. It's --
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SB: ์•„๋งˆ๋„์š”.
15:04
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
15:06
There's three groups, basically, working on the woolly mammoth seriously:
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ ๋ณต์›์‚ฌ์—…์— ์ง„์ง€ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ž„ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ฃน์€ ์„ธ ๊ณณ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:11
Revive & Restore, we're kind of in the middle;
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Revive & Restore๋Š” ์ค‘์žฌ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:13
George Church and the group at Harvard that are doing the genetics in the lab;
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ํ•˜๋ฒ„๋“œ๋Œ€์˜ ์กฐ์ง€ ์ฒ˜์น˜ ๊ต์ˆ˜ํŒ€์€ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์†Œ์—์„œ ์œ ์ „๊ณผํ•™์„ ๋งก๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
15:17
and then there's an amazing old scientist named Zimov
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๋‚˜๋จธ์ง€ ํ•œ ํŒ€์€ ๋ถ๋ถ€ ์‹œ๋ฒ ๋ฆฌ์•„์—์„œ ์ผํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
15:23
who works in northern Siberia,
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๋‚˜์ด๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธ‹ํ•œ ๋†€๋ผ์šด ๊ณผํ•™์ž์ธ ์„ธ๋ฅด๊ฒŒ์ด ์ง€๋ชจํ”„(Sergey Zimov)์™€
15:28
and his son Nikita, who has bought into the system,
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๊ทธ ์•„๋“ค์ธ ์—ด์ •์ ์ธ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์ž ๋‹ˆํ‚คํƒ€ ์ง€๋ชจํ”„(Nikita Zimov)์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:31
and they are, Sergey and Nikita Zimov have been, for 25 years,
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์„ธ๋ฅด๊ฒŒ์ด์™€ ๋‹ˆํ‚คํƒ€ ์ง€๋ชจํ”„๋Š” 25๋…„๊ฐ„
15:37
creating what they call "Pleistocene Park,"
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์‹œ๋ฒ ๋ฆฌ์•„์—์„œ๋„ ๋งค์šฐ ์ฒ™๋ฐ•ํ•œ ํˆฐ๋“œ๋ผ ์ง€๋Œ€์—์„œ
15:40
which is a place in a really tough part of Siberia that is pure tundra.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด "ํ”Œ๋ผ์ด์Šคํ† ์„ธ ๊ณต์›"์ด๋ผ ๋ถ€๋ฅด๋Š” ๊ณณ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:45
And the research that's been done shows
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ž์—ฐ์— ํ˜„์žฌ ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋Š” ๋™๋ฌผ ๊ฐœ์ฒด ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€
15:48
that there's probably one one-hundredth of the animals on the landscape there
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์˜ˆ์ „์˜ 1/100์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ฐํ˜€๋ƒˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:53
that there used to be.
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15:55
Like that earlier image, we saw lots of animals.
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๋ณด์—ฌ๋“œ๋ฆฐ ์‚ฌ์ง„์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ „์—๋Š” ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:57
Now there's almost none.
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์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ๊ฑฐ์˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:59
The tundra is mostly moss, and then there's the boreal forest.
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ํˆฐ๋“œ๋ผ๋Š” ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ์ด๋ผ ์ง€๋Œ€์™€ ๊ทธ๋ฐ–์— ๋ถ์ชฝ ์ˆ˜๋ฆผ๋Œ€๋กœ ๋˜์–ด์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:02
And that's the way it is, folks. There's just a few animals there.
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ๊ทธ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋™๋ฌผ์ด ์–ผ๋งˆ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ง€๋ชจํ”„ ๋ถ€์ž๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ชฉ ๋™๋ฌผ์„ ํ’€์–ด๋†“์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:05
So they brought in a lot of grazing animals:
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์‚ฌํ–ฅ ์†Œ, ์•ผ์ฟ ํŠธ ๋ง, ๋“ค์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์—ฌ์™”๊ณ 
16:08
musk ox, Yakutian horses, they're bringing in some bison,
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16:11
they're bringing in some more now,
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์•ž์œผ๋กœ๋„ ๊ณ„์†ํ•˜์—ฌ
16:13
and put them in at the density that they used to be.
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๊ฐœ์ฒด์˜ ์ˆ˜๋ฅผ ์˜ˆ์ „ ์ˆ˜์ค€์œผ๋กœ ๋Œ์–ด์˜ฌ๋ฆด ๊ณ„ํš์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:16
And grasslands are made by grazers.
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์ดˆ์›์ง€๋Œ€๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ชฉ ๋™๋ฌผ์— ์˜ํ•ด ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:19
So these animals are there, grazing away,
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์ด ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค์€ ํˆฐ๋“œ๋ผ์—์„œ ํ’€์„ ๋œฏ๋Š” ๋™์‹œ์—
16:22
and they're doing a couple of things.
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๋‘์–ด ๊ฐ€์ง€์˜ ์ผ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:24
First of all, they're turning the tundra, the moss, back into grassland.
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๋จผ์ € ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ํˆฐ๋“œ๋ผ์˜ ์ด๋ผ ์ง€๋Œ€๋ฅผ ์ดˆ์›์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ‰๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:28
Grassland fixes carbon.
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์ดˆ์›์€ ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ๊ณ ์ •ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:30
Tundra, in a warming world, is thawing and releasing a lot of carbon dioxide
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ํˆฐ๋“œ๋ผ๋Š” ์ง€๊ตฌ์˜จ๋‚œํ™”์˜ ์ง„ํ–‰์— ๋”ฐ๋ผ ํ•ด๋™๋˜๋ฉด์„œ
๋Œ€๋Ÿ‰์˜ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ์™€ ๋ฉ”ํƒ„์„ ๋ฐฉ์ถœํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:35
and also methane.
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16:36
So already in their little 25 square miles,
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65ํ‰๋ฐฉkm์˜ ์ž‘์€ ๊ณต๊ฐ„์—์„œ
16:39
they're doing a climate stabilization thing.
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๊ธฐํ›„ ์•ˆ์ •ํ™”๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฃจ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:42
Part of that story, though,
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์ง€ํ˜•์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€์ธ ๋ถ์ชฝ ์ˆ˜๋ฆผ๋Œ€๋Š”
16:44
is that the boreal forest is very absorbent to sunlight,
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ํ–‡๋น›์„ ๋งค์šฐ ์ž˜ ํก์ˆ˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:49
even in the winter when snow is on the ground.
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๊ฒจ์šธ์— ๋ˆˆ์ด ๋ฎ์—ฌ์žˆ๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ์—๋„ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
16:52
And the way the mammoth steppe,
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ ์Šคํ… ์ง€๋Œ€๋Š”
16:53
which used to wrap all the way around the North Pole --
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๋ถ๊ทน๊ณผ ์ฃผ๋ณ€ ์ง€๋Œ€๋ฅผ ๋ชจ๋‘ ํ˜•์„ฑํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๊ณ 
16:56
there's a lot of landmass around the North Pole --
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๊ทธ ๊ด‘๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ง€์—ญ์ด ๋ชจ๋‘ ์ดˆ์›์„ ์ด๋ฃจ๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:58
that was all this grassland.
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17:01
And the steppe was magnificent,
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์Šคํ… ์ง€๋Œ€๋Š” ๊ต‰์žฅํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:04
probably one of the most productive biomes in the world,
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์„ธ์ƒ์—์„œ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ƒ์‚ฐ์ ์ธ ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„์ด๋ฉด์„œ
17:08
the biggest biome in the world.
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ๊ฑฐ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:11
The forest part of it, right now, Sergey Zimov and Nikita
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ํ˜„์žฌ ์ง€๋ชจํ”„ ๋ถ€์ž๋“ค์€ ๋ฌด์ƒ์œผ๋กœ ์–ป์€ ์˜ค๋ž˜๋œ ๊ตฐ์šฉ ํƒฑํฌ๋ฅผ ํƒ€๊ณ 
17:15
go out with this old military tank they got for nothing,
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์ˆ˜๋ฆผ๋Œ€์— ๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ๋‚˜๋ฌด๋“ค์„ ๋ฒ ์–ด๋‚ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:18
and they knock down the trees.
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17:20
And that's a bore, and it's tiresome,
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์ด ์ž‘์—…์€ ์ง€๊ฒน๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ํž˜์ด ๋“ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:23
and as Sergey says, "... and they make no dung!"
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์„ธ๋ฅด๊ฒŒ์ด๋Š” ๋‚˜๋ฌด๋“ค์€ ๋˜ฅ๋„ ์•ˆ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋‚ธ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ถˆํ‰ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:26
which, by the way, these big animals do, including mammoths.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ๋“ค์—ฌ์˜จ ๋™๋ฌผ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ์™€๋Š” ๋‹ค๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
17:29
So mammoths become what conservation biologists call
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๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ณด์กด์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์ž๋“ค์˜ ์šฉ์–ด๋กœ
17:32
an umbrella species.
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์šฐ์‚ฐ ์ƒ๋ฌผ์ข…์˜ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:34
It's an exciting animal -- pandas in China or wherever --
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์ด๋“ค์€ ๋†€๋ผ์šด ์ƒ๋ฌผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ค‘๊ตญ์˜ ํŒ๋‹ค๋„ ๊ทธ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜์ฃ .
17:37
that the excitement that goes on of making life good for that animal
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์ด๋“ค์€ ์ƒ๋ช…์ด ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋•…์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋†€๋ผ์šด ์ผ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:42
is making a habitat, an ecosystem,
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์ƒ๋ช…์ด ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด
17:44
which is good for a whole lot of creatures and plants,
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ๋™์‹๋ฌผ์ด ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๊ณ 
17:47
and it ideally gets to the point of being self-managing,
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์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„๊ฐ€ ์ž์ฒด์ ์œผ๋กœ ์œ ์ง€๋˜๋„๋ก ๋•๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:50
where the conservation biologists can back off and say,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ๋ณด์กด์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์ž๋„ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ์„œ์„œ ๋งํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:53
"All we have to do is keep out the destructive invasives,
355
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"์ด์ œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•  ์ผ์€ ํŒŒ๊ดด์ ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐœ์ž…ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ 
17:56
and this thing can just cook."
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์•Œ์•„์„œ ํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋†”๋‘๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋ฟ์ด์•ผ."
17:58
CA: So there's many other species that you're dreaming of de-extincting
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CA: ๊ทธ ์™ธ์—๋„ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๊ป˜์„œ ์•ž์œผ๋กœ ๋ถ€ํ™œ์‹œํ‚ค๋ ค ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ์ข…๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
18:02
at some point,
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18:03
but I think what I'd actually like to move on to
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ฃผ์ œ๋ฅผ ์–˜๊ธฐํ•ด๋ณด๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:06
is this idea you talked about how mammoths might help
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๊ป˜์„œ๋Š” ๋งค๋จธ๋“œ๋กœ ๋…น์ƒ‰ ์‹œ๋ฒ ๋ฆฌ์•„๋ฅผ
18:10
green Siberia in a sense,
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๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ณ„ํš์„ ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
18:12
or at least, I'm not talking about tropical rainforest,
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์—ด๋Œ€์šฐ๋ฆผ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์–ด๋„
18:18
but this question of greening the planet you've thought about a lot.
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์˜ ์ง€๊ตฌ ๋…นํ™”์‚ฌ์—…์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ๋“ฃ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ธฐ์กด์˜ ๋งŽ์€ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋“ค์ด
18:22
And the traditional story is
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18:24
that deforestation is one of the most awful curses
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์‚ผ๋ฆผ๋ฒŒ์ฑ„๋ฅผ ํ˜„๋Œ€์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ์ €์ฃผ๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ 
18:30
of modern times,
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18:32
and that it's a huge contributor to climate change.
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ณ€ํ™”์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ์›์ธ์œผ๋กœ ์ง€๋ชฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:36
And then you went and sent me this graph here, or this map.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๊ป˜์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ง€๋„๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋‚ด์…จ๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
18:39
What is this map?
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์–ด๋–ค ์ง€๋„์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
18:41
SB: Global greening.
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SB: '์ง€๊ตฌ ๋…น์ƒ‰ํ™”' ์ง€๋„์š”.
18:43
The thing to do with any narrative that you get from headlines
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ํ—ค๋“œ๋ผ์ธ์ด๋‚˜ ์งง์€ ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ์—์„œ ์–ป๊ฒŒ ๋œ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์ฐธ๊ณ ํ•  ๋•Œ์—๋Š”
18:47
and from short news stories
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18:49
is to look for what else is going on,
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๊ทธ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ ์™ธ์— ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ์ผ๋“ค์ด ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๋Š”์ง€ ์ฐพ์•„๋ด์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ 
18:52
and look for what Marc Andreessen calls "narrative violation."
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๋งˆํฌ ์•ค๋“œ๋ฆฌ์Šจ์ด ๋งํ•œ "์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์˜ ๋น„์ค‘๋ฆฝ์„ฑ"๋„ ์œ ๋…ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:57
So the narrative -- and Al Gore is master of putting it out there --
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ฃผ์žฅ์˜ ๋Œ€ํ‘œ ์ฃผ์ž๋กœ ์•จ ๊ณ ์–ด๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์ฃ .
19:02
is that there's this civilization-threatening
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ํ˜„๋Œ€ ์‹œ๋Œ€์—๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ฌธ๋ช…์„ ์œ„ํ—˜์— ๋น ๋œจ๋ฆด ๊ธฐํ›„๋ณ€ํ™”๊ฐ€
19:06
climate change coming on very rapidly.
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๊ธ‰์†๋„๋กœ ๋‹ค๊ฐ€์˜ค๊ณ  ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ
19:08
We have to cease all extra production of greenhouse gases, especially CO2,
378
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๋Š” ์˜จ์‹ค๊ฐ€์Šค์˜ ์ถ”๊ฐ€์ ์ธ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์„ ๋ฉˆ์ถฐ์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ 
ํŠนํžˆ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์„ ์ตœ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋นจ๋ฆฌ ๋ฉˆ์ถ”์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด
19:15
as soon as possible,
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19:16
otherwise, we're in deep, deep trouble.
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ํฐ์ผ์ด ์ƒ๊ธด๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:18
All of that is true, but it's not the whole story,
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์ด๋Š” ์ „๋ถ€ ์˜ณ์€ ๋ง์ด์ง€๋งŒ ์ง„์‹ค์˜ ์ „๋ถ€๋Š” ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:21
and the whole story is more interesting than these fragmentary stories.
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์ง„์‹ค์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋‹จํŽธ์ ์ธ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋” ํฅ๋ฏธ์ง„์ง„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:25
Plants love CO2.
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์‹๋ฌผ์€ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:28
What plants are made of is CO2 plus water via sunshine.
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์‹๋ฌผ์€ ํ–‡๋น›์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ์™€ ๋ฌผ์„ ํ•ฉ์„ฑํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:32
And so in many greenhouses, industrialized greenhouses,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์‹๋ฌผ์„ ๊ธฐ๋ฅด๋Š” ๋Œ€๋‹ค์ˆ˜์˜ ์‚ฐ์—…ํ™” ์˜จ์‹ค๋“ค์—์„œ๋Š”
19:37
they add CO2 because the plants turn that into plant matter.
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์„ฑ์žฅ์— ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์ผ๋ถ€๋Ÿฌ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋„ฃ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:41
So the studies have been done with satellites and other things,
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์ง€๊ธˆ ๋ณด๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹  ๊ทธ๋ž˜ํ”„๋Š” ์ง€๋‚œ 33๋…„๊ฐ„
19:44
and what you're seeing here is a graph of, over the last 33 years or so,
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์ธ๊ณต์œ„์„ฑ ๋“ฑ์„ ์ด์šฉํ•œ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์ œ์ž‘๋œ
19:48
there's 14 percent more leaf action going on.
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๋…น์ƒ‰์‹๋ฌผ์˜ ํ™œ๋™์ด 14% ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ž๋ฃŒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:54
There's that much more biomass.
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๊ทธ๋งŒํผ ์ƒ๋ฌผ๋Ÿ‰์ด
19:56
There's that much more what ecologists call "primary production."
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ํ™˜๊ฒฝํ•™์ž์˜ ์šฉ์–ด๋กœ "1์ฐจ ์ƒ์‚ฐ"์ธ ์ƒ๋ช…์˜ ํ™œ๋™๋Ÿ‰์ด ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:59
There's that much more life happening,
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20:01
thanks to climate change,
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๊ธฐํ›„๋ณ€ํ™”์˜ ๋„์›€์œผ๋กœ
20:02
thanks to all of our goddam coal plants.
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์š•๋จน๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์„ํƒ„ ๊ณต์žฅ๋“ค์˜ ๋„์›€์œผ๋กœ์š”.
20:05
So -- whoa, what's going on here?
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์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ฌด์Šจ ์˜๋ฏธ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
20:08
By the way, crop production goes up with this.
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๊ทธ๋ฐ–์— ์ž‘๋ฌผ ์ƒ์‚ฐ๋Ÿ‰๋„ ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:11
This is a partial counter
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ์˜ ์ฆ๊ฐ€์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
20:16
to the increase of CO2,
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๋ฐ˜์ž‘์šฉ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€๋ถ„์œผ๋กœ์„œ
20:19
because there's that much more plant that is sucking it down
399
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๊ทธ๋งŒํผ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ํก์ˆ˜ํ•˜๋Š” ์‹๋ฌผ์ด ๋งŽ์•„์ง„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:22
into plant matter.
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20:24
Some of that then decays and goes right back up,
401
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์‹๋ฌผ์ด ์ฃฝ์œผ๋ฉด์„œ ์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ๋Œ€๊ธฐ๋กœ ๋Œ์•„๊ฐ€์ง€๋งŒ
20:26
but some of it is going down into roots
402
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์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ ๋ฟŒ๋ฆฌ๋กœ ๋‚ด๋ ค๊ฐ€ ํ† ์–‘์— ๋จธ๋ฌผ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:28
and going into the soil and staying there.
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20:30
So these counter things are part of what you need to bear in mind,
404
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐ˜์ž‘์šฉ๋“ค์€ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์•„์…”์•ผ ํ•  ๊ธฐ์‚ฌ ๋ฐ–์˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:34
and the deeper story is
405
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๋˜ ์•„์…”์•ผ ํ•  ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋Š”
20:36
that thinking about and dealing with and engineering climate
406
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๊ธฐํ›„๋ฅผ ๋ถ„์„ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋Œ€์ฒ˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์กฐ์ ˆํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
20:41
is a pretty complex process.
407
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๊ฝค ๋ณต์žกํ•œ ์ž‘์—…์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:43
It's like medicine.
408
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์•ฝ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:45
You're always, again, tweaking around with the system
409
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๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ์ด๋ฆฌ์ €๋ฆฌ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•ด์„œ
20:48
to see what makes an improvement.
410
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๋” ๋‚˜์•„์ง€๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ž„ ์ˆ˜๋ฐ–์— ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:50
Then you do more of that, see it's still getting better,
411
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•ด์„œ ์•„์ง๋„ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ์€์ง€ ๋ณด๊ณ 
20:53
then -- oop! -- that's enough, back off half a turn.
412
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ค ์–ด์ด์ฟ ! ์‹ถ์œผ๋ฉด ์ž ์‹œ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
CA: ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ์‹๋ฌผ์ด ๋˜‘๊ฐ™์ง€ ์•Š๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:56
CA: But might some people say, "Not all green is created equal."
413
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20:59
Possibly what we're doing is trading off the magnificence of the rainforest
414
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์–ด์ฉŒ๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ง€๊ธˆ ์—ด๋Œ€์šฐ๋ฆผ์˜ ์›…์žฅํ•จ๊ณผ
21:02
and all that diversity
415
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๊ทธ ๋ฐ–์˜ ๋‹ค์–‘์„ฑ์„ ํฌ์ƒํ•ด์„œ
21:03
for, I don't know, green pond scum or grass or something like that.
416
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๋…น์ƒ‰ ์—ฐ๋ชป ์ด๋ผ๋‚˜ ํ’€๊ณผ ๋งž๋ฐ”๊พธ๊ณ  ์žˆ์„์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
SB: ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•œ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์— ์˜ํ•˜๋ฉด ๋ชจ๋“  ์‹๋ฌผ์€ ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:07
SB: In this particular study, it turns out every form of plant is increasing.
417
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21:10
Now, what's interestingly left out of this study
418
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ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กญ๊ฒŒ๋„ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์—์„œ ๋น ์ง„ ๋Œ€์ƒ์€
21:12
is what the hell is going on in the oceans.
419
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๋ฐ”๋‹ค์—์„œ ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ฐ”๋‹ค์˜ 1์ฐจ ์ƒ์‚ฐ์ž์ธ
21:15
Primary production in the oceans,
420
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21:16
the biota of the oceans, mostly microbial,
421
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ๋ฏธ์ƒ๋ฌผ์ธ ๋ฐ”๋‹ค์˜ ์‹๋ฌผ๊ตฐ์ด
21:20
what they're up to is probably the most important thing.
422
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ๋Š”์ง€๊ฐ€ ์ œ์ผ ์ค‘์š”ํ• ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:22
They're the ones that create the atmosphere
423
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ํ˜ธํกํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
21:24
that we're happily breathing,
424
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๋Œ€๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“  ์žฅ๋ณธ์ธ์ธ๋ฐ
21:26
and they're not part of this study.
425
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์—ฐ๊ตฌ์—๋Š” ๋น ์ ธ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
21:29
This is one of the things James Lovelock has been insisting;
426
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ œ์ž„์Šค ๋Ÿฌ๋ธŒ๋ก์ด ์ฃผ์žฅํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
21:31
basically, our knowledge of the oceans, especially of ocean life,
427
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๋ฐ”๋‹ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ, ์ข€ ๋” ์ •ํ™•ํžˆ ๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด ๋ฐ”๋‹ค์˜ ์ƒํƒœ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ง€์‹์ด
21:35
is fundamentally vapor, in this sense.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค์ƒ ์ „๋ฌดํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:37
So we're in the process of finding out
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์ด ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š”
๋Œ€๊ธฐ์— ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์•„์ง„ ์˜๋„์น˜ ์•Š์€ ๊ธฐํ›„์กฐ์ ˆ์—
21:39
by inadvertent bad geoengineering of too much CO2 in the atmosphere,
430
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5239
21:44
finding out, what is the ocean doing with that?
431
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๋ฐ”๋‹ค๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋Œ€์ฒ˜ ์ค‘์ธ์ง€ ์—ฐ๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š” ์ค‘์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:47
Well, the ocean, with the extra heat,
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๋ฐ”๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ณผ์—ด์— ์˜ํ•ด
21:49
is swelling up.
433
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ํŒฝ์ฐฝํ•˜๋Š” ์ค‘์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:50
That's most of where we're getting the sea level rise,
434
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ์ง€์—ญ์—์„œ ํ•ด์ˆ˜๋ฉด์ด ์ƒ์Šน ์ค‘์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:53
and there's a lot more coming with more global warming.
435
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์ง€๊ตฌ์˜จ๋‚œํ™”๋Š” ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ํ˜„์ƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ถˆ๋Ÿฌ ์˜ฌ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:55
We're getting terrible harm to some of the coral reefs,
436
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ํ˜ธ์ฃผ์—์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ํ˜„์ƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ผ๋ถ€ ์‚ฐํ˜ธ์ดˆ๋“ค์€
22:00
like off of Australia.
437
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๋”์ฐํ•œ ํ”ผํ•ด๋ฅผ ๋‹นํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:02
The great reef there is just a lot of bleaching from overheating.
438
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๋Œ€๋ณด์ดˆ(Great Barrier Reef)๋Š” ์—ด๋กœ ์ธํ•ด ํ‘œ๋ฐฑ ๋ฉ์–ด๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ผ๋ฒ„๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:06
And this is why I and Danny Hillis, in our previous session on the main stage,
439
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด๊ฒƒ์ด ์ €์™€ ๋Œ€๋‹ˆ ํž์Šค๊ฐ€ ์ง€๋‚œ TED ๊ฐ•์—ฐ์—์„œ
"์ง€๊ตฌ๊ณตํ•™์€ ์กฐ์ ˆ์ด ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ํ™•์ธํ•˜๊ณ 
22:13
was saying, "Look, geoengineering is worth experimenting with enough
440
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์˜จ๋‚œํ™”๋กœ ์ธํ•œ ํ˜„์ƒ์—์„œ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์„ ์ง€์—ฐ์‹œํ‚ฌ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
22:17
to see that it works,
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22:19
to see if we can buy time in the warming aspect of all of this,
442
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ํ™•์ธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ๋„ ์‹คํ—˜์  ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค"๊ณ  ํ•œ ์ด์œ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:24
tweak the system with small but usable research,
443
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋ถ„์„ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ์ˆ˜์ค€์œผ๋กœ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•ด ๋‚˜๊ฐ€๋ฉฐ
22:29
and then see if we should do more than tweak.
444
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์กฐ์น˜๊ฐ€ ๋” ํ•„์š”ํ•œ์ง€ ํ™•์ธํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:32
CA: OK, so this is what we're going to talk about
445
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CA: ๋„ค, ์ด์ œ ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰ ๋‚จ์€ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์—๋Š”
22:34
for the last few minutes here
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๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์„ ์ฃผ์ œ๋กœ ์ •ํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:35
because it's such an important discussion.
447
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22:38
First of all, this book was just published by Yuval Harari.
448
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๋จผ์ € ์œ ๋ฐœ ํ•˜๋ผ๋ฆฌ(Yuval Harari)์˜ ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ฑ… ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๋ณด์ฃ .
22:41
He's basically saying the next evolution of humans is to become as gods.
449
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์ €์ž๋Š” ๋‹ค์Œ ์ง„ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ์‹ ์ด ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:46
I think he --
450
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—” ์ €์ž๊ฐ€..
22:47
SB: Now, you've talked to him. And you've probably finished the book.
451
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SB: ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ €์ž์™€ ๋ง์”€๋„ ๋‚˜๋ˆ„์—ˆ๊ณ  ์ฑ…๋„ ์™„๋…ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๋„ค์š”.
์ €๋Š” ์•„์ง ๋ชป ์ฝ์–ด์„œ์š”.
22:50
I haven't finished it yet.
452
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22:51
Where does he come out on --
453
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ‘œํ˜„ํ•ด๋†“์•˜์ฃ ?
22:53
CA: I mean, it's a pretty radical view.
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CA: ์‚ฌ์‹ค ๊ฝค๋‚˜ ๊ธ‰์ง„์ ์ธ ์‹œ๊ฐ์ด๋ผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:57
He thinks that we will completely remake ourselves
455
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์ €์ž๋Š” ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ์ดํ„ฐ์™€ ์ƒ๋ช…๊ณตํ•™์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
23:00
using data, using bioengineering,
456
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์™„์ „ํžˆ ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋ฅผ ์žฌ์„ค๊ณ„ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ 
23:04
to become completely new creatures
457
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2140
์ดˆ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์— ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์šด ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ๊ฐ–์ถ˜ ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ƒ๋ฌผ์ด ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ
23:06
that have, kind of, superpowers,
458
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23:08
and that there will be huge inequality.
459
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์ด๋กœ ์ธํ•ด ํฐ ๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์ด ์ƒ๊ธธ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:11
But we're about to write a very radical, brand-new chapter of history.
460
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ๊ธ‰์ž‘์Šค๋Ÿฝ๊ณ  ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์—ญ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ๋งž์ดํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:17
That's what he believes.
461
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์ €์ž์˜ ์ƒ๊ฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:18
SB: Is he nervous about that? I forget.
462
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SB: ๊ฑฑ์ •์„ ํ•˜๋˜๊ฐ€์š”? ๊ธฐ์–ต์ด ์•ˆ ๋‚˜๋„ค์š”.
23:20
CA: He's nervous about it,
463
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2441
CA: ์ €์ž๋Š” ๊ฑฑ์ •๋„ ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
23:23
but I think he also likes provoking people.
464
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ฒฝ๊ณ„์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ์˜๋„ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:26
SB: Are you nervous about that?
465
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1985
SB: ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์–ด๋–ค๊ฐ€์š”?
23:28
CA: I'm nervous about that.
466
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CA: ์ €๋Š” ๊ฑฑ์ •์ด ๋ผ์š”.
23:29
But, you know, with so much at TED, I'm excited and nervous.
467
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ TED์— ์žˆ๋‹ค ๋ณด๋‹ˆ ๊ฑฑ์ •๊ณผ ๋™์‹œ์— ๊ธฐ๋Œ€๋„ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:33
And the optimist in me is trying hard to lean towards
468
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์•ˆ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ๋Š์ž„์—†์ด ๊ธ์ •์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
23:37
"This is awesome and really exciting,"
469
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๋ฉ‹์ง€๊ณ  ์ •๋ง ํฅ๋ฏธ๋กญ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
23:39
while the sort of responsible part of me is saying,
470
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๋™์‹œ์— ์ฑ…์ž„๊ฐ์„ ๋Š๋ผ๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
23:42
"But, uh, maybe we should be a little bit careful
471
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๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ์•ฝ๊ฐ„์€ ์‹ ์ค‘ํžˆ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์ข‹๊ฒ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:44
as to how we think of it."
472
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23:45
SB: That's your secret sauce, isn't it, for TED?
473
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SB: ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด TED๋ฅผ ์ง„ํ–‰ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๋น„๊ฒฐ์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
23:48
Staying nervous and excited.
474
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๊ฑฑ์ •ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ๊ธฐ๋Œ€ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์š”.
23:50
CA: It's also the recipe for being a little bit schizophrenic.
475
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CA: ๋™์‹œ์— ์ •์‹ ๋ถ„์—ด์˜ ๋น„๊ฒฐ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜์ฃ .
23:54
But he didn't quote you.
476
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ €์ž๊ฐ€ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์„ ์ธ์šฉํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋”๊ตฐ์š”.
23:58
What I thought was an astonishing statement that you made
477
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์ฑ…์„ ๋ณด๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์ด ํ™€ ์–ด์Šค ์นดํƒˆ๋กœ๊ทธ ์ง€์—์„œ
24:01
right back in the original Whole Earth Catalog,
478
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๋†€๋ผ์šด ์„ ์–ธ์„ ํ•˜์‹  ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ƒ๊ฐ๋‚ฌ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:05
you ended it with this powerful phrase:
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์ด ๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ๊ตฌ์ ˆ๋กœ ๊ธ€์„ ๋๋‚ด์…จ์ฃ .
24:09
"We are as gods, and might as well get good at it."
480
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"์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ๊ณผ ๋™๋“ฑํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ , ๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ž˜ ์ˆ˜ํ–‰ํ• ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค."
24:12
And then more recently, you've upgraded that statement.
481
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์ตœ๊ทผ์—๋„ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์€ ๋” ๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ๋ง์”€์„ ํ•˜์…จ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:15
I want you talk about this philosophy.
482
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๊ป˜ ์ง์ ‘ ๋“ฃ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:17
SB: Well, one of the things I'm learning is that documentation
483
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SB: ๋จผ์ € ์ƒˆ์‚ผ์Šค๋Ÿฝ์ง€๋งŒ
๊ธฐ๋ก์ด ๊ธฐ์–ต๋ณด๋‹ค ๋‚ซ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:20
is better than memory -- by far.
484
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24:23
And one of the things I've learned from somebody --
485
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ํŠธ์œ„ํ„ฐ์— ์˜ฌ๋ฆฐ ๊ธ€์—์„œ ์ด ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๊นจ๋‹ฌ์•˜๊ณ 
24:26
I actually got on Twitter.
486
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24:29
It changed my life -- it hasn't forgiven me yet!
487
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์ดํ›„์˜ ์‚ถ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ์ฃผ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์ด ์ˆœ๊ฐ„์—๋„์š”!
24:33
And I took ownership of this phrase when somebody quoted it,
488
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์ด์ „์— ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ € ๋ฌธ์žฅ์„ ์ธ์šฉํ–ˆ๊ธฐ์— ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ตฌ์ ˆ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ฐํ˜”๋Š”๋ฐ
24:37
and somebody else said,
489
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•ด์ฃผ๊ธธ
24:38
"Oh by the way, that isn't what you originally wrote
490
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"๊ทธ๋‚˜์ €๋‚˜ ์ด ๊ตฌ์ ˆ์€ 1968๋…„ ํ™€ ์–ด์Šค ์นดํƒˆ๋กœ๊ทธ ์ดˆํŒ์—์„œ
24:41
in that first 1968 Whole Earth Catalog.
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ํ–ˆ๋˜ ๋ง์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
์ดˆํŒ์€ '์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ๊ณผ ๋™๋“ฑํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ , ๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์— ์ต์ˆ™ํ•ด์งˆ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค'์˜€์ฃ ."
24:44
You wrote, 'We are as gods and might as well get used to it.'"
492
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24:47
I'd forgotten that entirely.
493
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์ €๋Š” ์™„์ „ํžˆ ์žŠ๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
24:49
The stories -- these goddam stories -- the stories we tell ourselves
494
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์ด๋†ˆ์˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ๋˜๋‡Œ๋‹ค๊ฐ€
24:52
become lies over time.
495
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์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ์ง€๋‚˜๋Š” ๋™์•ˆ ๊ฑฐ์ง“๋ง์ด ๋˜์–ด๋ฒ„๋ ค์š”.
24:55
So, documentation helps cut through that.
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๊ธฐ๋ก์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ๋ฐฉ์ง€ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ ๋„์›€์ด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:57
It did move on to "We are as gods and might as well get good at it,"
497
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๊ทธ ๊ตฌ์ ˆ์€ "์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ๊ณผ ๋™๋“ฑํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ , ๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ž˜ ์ˆ˜ํ–‰ํ• ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค."๋กœ
25:01
and that was the Whole Earth Catalog.
498
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๊ฐœ์ •๋ณธ์— ๋ฐ”๋€Œ์–ด ์ˆ˜๋ก๋˜์—ˆ๊ณ 
25:03
By the time I was doing a book called "Whole Earth Discipline:
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๋‚˜์ค‘์— ์ œ๊ฐ€ "์ง€๊ตฌ ์ „์ฒด์˜ ๊ทœ์œจ: ํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์‹ค์šฉ์  ์„ ์–ธ"์„ ์“ธ ๋•Œ๋Š”
25:06
An Ecopragmatist Manifesto,"
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ํ™˜๊ฒฝ๋ณ€ํ™”์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ํƒœ๋„๋กœ
25:08
and in light of climate change, basically saying that we are as gods
501
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"์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ๊ณผ ๋™๋“ฑํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ , ๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ž˜ ์ˆ˜ํ–‰ํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ•œ๋‹ค."๋กœ
25:11
and have to get good at it.
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๋‹ค์‹œ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•˜์˜€์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:13
CA: We are as gods and have to get good at it.
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CA: "์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์‹ ๊ณผ ๋™๋“ฑํ•ด์กŒ๊ณ , ๊ทธ ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ž˜ ์ˆ˜ํ–‰ํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ•œ๋‹ค."
25:15
So talk about that, because the psychological reaction
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์ง์ ‘ ์„ค๋ช…์„ ๋ถ€ํƒ๋“œ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:19
from so many people as soon as you talk about geoengineering
505
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ง€๊ตฌ๊ณตํ•™์— ๊ด€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•  ๋•Œ
25:22
is that the last thing they believe is that humans should be gods --
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ์‹ ์ด ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐ์€ ๋งค์šฐ ์ด์งˆ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋Š๊ปด์ง€๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
25:25
some of them for religious reasons,
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์ผ๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ์ข…๊ต์ ์ธ ์ด์œ ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋“ 
25:27
but most just for humility reasons,
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ๊ฒธ์†ํ•จ์˜ ์ด์œ ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋“ 
25:30
that the systems are too complex,
509
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๋ณต์žกํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
25:32
we should not be dabbling that way.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•จ๋ถ€๋กœ ์†์„ ๋Œ€๋Š” ๊ฑด ์•ˆ ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์„๊นŒ์š”?
25:35
SB: Well, this is the Greek narrative about hubris.
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SB: ์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ์Šค ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ํ•˜๋‚˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:39
And once you start getting really sure of yourself,
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์Šค์Šค๋กœ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ํ™•์‹ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋ฉด
25:42
you wind up sleeping with your mother.
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์–ด๋จธ๋‹ˆ์™€๋„ ์ž ์ž๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋œ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์ฃ .
25:45
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
25:48
CA: I did not expect you would say that.
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CA: ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋ง์”€์„ ํ•˜์‹ค ์ค„์€ ๋ชฐ๋ž๋„ค์š”.
25:50
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
SB: ๋„ค, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ์Šค ์‹ ํ™”์˜ ์˜ค์ด๋””ํ‘ธ์Šค ์„คํ™”์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:53
SB: That's the Oedipus story.
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25:56
Hubris is a really important cautionary tale to always have at hand.
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์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ์€ ํ•ญ์ƒ ์ฃผ์˜ํ•ด๋„ ๋ชจ์ž๋ž€ ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ์„ ๋ง‰๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ์ €๋งŒ์˜ ๊ทœ์น™ ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
26:03
One of the guidelines I've kept for myself is:
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26:07
every day I ask myself how many things I am dead wrong about.
520
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์ž˜๋ชป ์ƒ๊ฐํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€ ์—†๋Š”์ง€ ๋งค์ผ ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ๋ฌผ์–ด๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:13
And I'm a scientist by training
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ ..
๊ณผํ•™ ๊ต์œก์„ ๋ฐ›์€ ๊ณผํ•™์ž๋กœ์„œ
26:16
and getting to work with scientists these days,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ณผํ•™์ž๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ฆ๊ฒ๊ฒŒ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๋ฅผ ์ง„ํ–‰ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:18
which is pure joy.
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26:20
Science is organized skepticism.
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๊ณผํ•™์€ ์กฐ์งํ™”๋œ ํšŒ์˜๋ก ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:24
So you're always insisting
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ๊ณผํ•™์ž๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ
26:27
that even when something looks pretty good,
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์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ฝค ๊ดœ์ฐฎ๊ฒŒ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ์ˆœ๊ฐ„์—๋„
26:31
you maintain a full set of not only suspicions
527
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ •๋ง๋กœ ๋ณด์ด๋Š” ๋งŒํผ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ์€ ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€ ์˜์‹ฌํ•˜๊ณ 
26:35
about whether it's as good as it looks,
528
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ผ์ด ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์€์ง€ ๋˜๋‹ค์‹œ ์˜์‹ฌํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:37
but: What else is going on?
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26:38
So this "What else is going?" on query,
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"๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ผ์ด ๋ฒŒ์–ด์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์€์ง€" ํ•ญ์ƒ ์ž๋ฌธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
26:42
I think, is how you get away from fake news.
531
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๊ฑฐ์ง“ ๋‰ด์Šค๋ฅผ ํ”ผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:46
It's not necessarily real news,
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์„ธ์ƒ์—๋Š” ์ง„์‹ค๋œ ๋‰ด์Šค๋งŒ ์กด์žฌํ•˜์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:50
but it's welcomely more complex news
533
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๋‰ด์Šค์—๋Š” ๋” ๋ณต์žกํ•œ ๊ด€๊ณ„๊ฐ€ ์–ฝํ˜€์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ์—ผ๋‘์— ๋‘๋ฉด์„œ
26:54
that you're trying to take on.
534
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๋‹ค๊ฐ€๊ฐ€๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:55
CA: But coming back to the application of this just for the environment:
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CA: ์ด์ œ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ ์šฉ์œผ๋กœ ๋‹ค์‹œ ๋Œ์•„์™€์„œ
์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์˜ ์˜๊ฒฌ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ข‹๋“  ์‹ซ๋“  ๊ฐ„์—
26:59
it seems like the philosophy of this is that, whether we like it or not,
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27:02
we are already dominating so many aspects of what happens on planets,
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์ธ๋ฅ˜๋Š” ์ด๋ฏธ ์ง€๊ตฌ์—์„œ ๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์„ ์ผ์œผํ‚ค๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ 
27:06
and we're doing it unintentionally,
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์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐ์—†์ด ํ•œ ํ–‰์œ„์ง€๋งŒ
27:08
so we really should start doing it intentionally.
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์ด์ œ๋Š” ์ง„์งœ ์˜๋„์ ์œผ๋กœ ์กฐ์ ˆํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๊ตฐ์š”.
27:12
What would it look like to start getting good at being a god?
540
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์‹ ์˜ ์—ญํ• ์„ ์ž˜ ์ˆ˜ํ–‰ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
27:16
How should we start doing that?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ด์•ผ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
27:18
Are there small-scale experiments or systems we can nudge and play with?
542
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋จผ์ € ์‹œํ—˜ํ•ด๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์†Œ๊ทœ๋ชจ ์‹คํ—˜์ด๋‚˜ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
27:22
How on earth do we think about it?
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๋„๋Œ€์ฒด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋‚˜์š”?
27:24
SB: The mentor that sort of freed me
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SB: ๋ฒ„ํฌ๋ฏผ์Šคํ„ฐ์—๊ฒŒ๋งŒ ์ถฉ์„ฑ์„ ๋ฐ”์ณค๋˜
27:26
from total allegiance to Buckminster Fuller
545
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์ €๋ฅผ ํ•ด๋ฐฉ์‹œํ‚จ ์Šค์Šน๋‹˜์ด ๊ณ„์‹œ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
27:28
was Gregory Bateson.
546
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๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๋ ˆ๊ณ ๋ฆฌ ๋ฒ ์ดํŠธ์Šจ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:30
And Gregory Bateson was an epistemologist and anthropologist and biologist
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๊ทธ๋ ˆ๊ณ ๋ฆฌ ๋ฒ ์ดํŠธ์Šจ ๊ทธ๋ถ„์€..
์ธ์‹๋ก  ์ฒ ํ•™๊ฐ€, ์ธ๋ฅ˜ํ•™์ž, ์ƒ๋ฌผํ•™์ž, ์‹ฌ๋ฆฌํ•™์ž ์™ธ์—๋„ ๋งŽ์€ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ
27:37
and psychologist and many other things,
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27:39
and he looked at how systems basically look at themselves.
549
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๊ทธ๋ถ„์€ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ด€์ ์—์„œ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณด์…จ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:44
And that is, I think, part of how you want to always be looking at things.
550
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์— ์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๋“  ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณผ ๋•Œ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ์‹œ์„ ์ด๋ผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:49
And what I like about David Keith's approach to geoengineering
551
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ ํ‚ค์Šค๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ตฌ๊ณตํ•™์— ๊ด€ํ•ด
27:53
is you don't just haul off and do it.
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๋ง์„ค์ด์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ  ํ–‰ํ•˜๋Š” ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฒ•๋„ ์ข‹์•„ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:56
David Keith's approach --
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๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ ํ‚ค์Šค์˜ ์ ‘๊ทผ์€
27:57
and this is what Danny Hillis was talking about earlier --
554
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๋Œ€๋‹ˆ ํž์Šค๊ฐ€ ์ด์ „์— ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
28:00
is that you do it really, really incrementally,
555
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๋งค์šฐ ๋งค์šฐ ์ ์ฐจ์ ์œผ๋กœ
28:02
you do some stuff to tweak the system, see how it responds,
556
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์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•œ ๋’ค, ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋ฐ˜์‘ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ
28:06
that tells you something about the system.
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๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:08
That's responding to the fact that people say, quite rightly,
558
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์ž์—ฐ์Šค๋Ÿฝ๊ฒŒ ๋‚˜์˜ค๋Š” ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‹ต์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:13
"What are we talking about here?
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"์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ฌด์Šจ ์–˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€?
28:14
We don't understand how the climate system works.
560
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ธฐํ›„์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ž‘๋™ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ๋ชจ๋ฅด์ž–์•„.
28:17
You can't engineer a system you don't understand."
561
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์ดํ•ด ๋ชป ํ•  ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์€ ์กฐ์ž‘๋„ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์–ด."
28:20
And David says, "Well, that certainly applies to the human body,
562
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๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ์˜ ๋‹ต์€ "์‚ฌ๋žŒ์˜ ๋ชธ๋„ ๋˜‘๊ฐ™์ด ๋ชฐ๋ž์ง€๋งŒ
28:23
and yet medicine goes ahead, and we're kind of glad that it has."
563
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์–ด์จŒ๋“  ์•ฝ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœํ•ด์™”๊ณ , ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ๋˜์–ด์„œ ๋‹คํ–‰์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ž–์•„."
28:27
The way you engineer a system that is so large and complex
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๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜ ๊ด‘๋Œ€ํ•˜๊ณ  ๋ณต์žกํ•ด์„œ ์™„์ „ํžˆ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ธฐ ํž˜๋“  ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„
28:31
that you can't completely understand it
565
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2020
์กฐ์ž‘ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€ ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์„ ๋ฏธ์„ธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•ด ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ 
28:33
is you tweak it,
566
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28:34
and this is kind of an anti-hubristic approach.
567
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์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ ์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ๋„ ๋ฐฉ์ง€ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:37
This is: try a little bit here,
568
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ”๋ด์„œ
28:39
back the hell off if it's an issue,
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๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ธฐ๋ฉด ๋‹น์žฅ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜๊ณ 
28:41
expand it if it seems to go OK,
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๊ดœ์ฐฎ์œผ๋ฉด ๋” ํ™•์žฅํ•˜๋ฉด ๋˜๊ณ 
28:43
meanwhile, have other paths going forward.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋“ค๋„ ์‹œ๋„ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
28:45
This is the whole argument for diversity and dialogue and all these other things
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ์„ธ๋ฐ”์Šค์ฐฌ ์Šค๋Ÿฐ์ด ์ง„ํ–‰ํ•œ ๊ฐ•์—ฐ์—์„œ ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ๋“ค์–ด์™”๋˜
28:49
and the things we were hearing about earlier with Sebastian [Thrun].
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๋‹ค์–‘์„ฑ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์™€ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:53
So the non-hubristic approach is looking for social license,
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์ž๋งŒ์‹ฌ์„ ์ง€์–‘ํ•œ ์ ‘๊ทผ์€ ์‚ฌํšŒ์  ํ—ˆ๋ฝ์„ ์ฐพ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:59
which is a terminology that I think is a good one,
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'์‚ฌํšŒ์  ํ—ˆ๋ฝ'์€ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๋žŒ์งํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ธ๋ฐ์š”.
29:02
of including society enough
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๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋‹ค์†Œ ๊นŠ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์Ÿ์ ์—๋Š”
29:04
in these interesting, problematic, deep issues
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์‚ฌํšŒ๊ฐ€ ์ถฉ๋ถ„ํžˆ ์ฐธ์—ฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:08
that they get to have a pretty good idea
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์„œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ์ž˜ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๊ณ 
29:12
and have people that they trust paying close attention
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์‚ฌํšŒ์—์„œ ์‹ ๋ขฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ธ๋ฌผ๋“ค์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
29:15
to the sequence of experiments as it's going forward,
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์‹คํ—˜์˜ ์ง„ํ–‰ ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋ฅผ ์—„๋ฐ€ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๊ฐ์‹œํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•˜์—ฌ
29:19
the public dialogue as it's going forward --
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์‹คํ—˜์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋Œ€์ค‘์  ํ† ๋ก ์„ ์ด๋Œ์–ด ๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:22
which is more public than ever, which is fantastic --
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์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ์–ด๋Š ๋•Œ๋ณด๋‹ค ํ† ๋ก ์ด ํ™œ๋ฐœํ•ด์„œ ๋งค์šฐ ์ ํ•ฉํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์š”.
29:25
and you feel your way,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ์ž…์žฅ์„ ์ •ํ•˜๊ณ 
29:28
you just ooze your way along,
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๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ ๊ทธ ๊ธธ๋กœ ํ˜๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€๋ฉด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:30
and this is the muddle-through approach that has worked pretty well so far.
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋Œ€์ค‘ ์ฃผ๋„์  ์ ‘๊ทผ์€ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€ ์ž˜ ์ž‘๋™ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:34
The reason that Sebastian and I are optimistic is we read
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์„ธ๋ฐ”์Šค์ฐฌ๊ณผ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ํฌ๋ง์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด๋Š” ์ด์œ ๋Š”
29:38
people like Steven Pinker, "The Better Angels of Our Nature,"
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"์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ณธ์„ฑ์˜ ์„ ํ•œ ์ฒœ์‚ฌ" ๋ฅผ ์“ด ์Šคํ‹ฐ๋ธ ํ•‘์ปค ๊ฐ™์€ ์ด๋„ ์žˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
29:42
and so far, so good.
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์ ์–ด๋„ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€๋Š” ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ์ข‹์•„์š”.
29:45
Now, that can always change,
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์ด ์ƒํ™ฉ๋„ ์–ธ์ œ๋“  ๋ณ€ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:48
but you can build a lot on that sense of: things are capable of getting better,
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ์ ์–ด๋„ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๋“  ๊ฐœ์„ ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ์•Œ๊ณ 
29:54
figure out the tools that made that happen and apply those further.
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์ ์ ˆํ•œ ๋„๊ตฌ๋“ค์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋‚ด๊ณ  ์ ์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:57
That's the story.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:59
CA: Stewart, I think on that optimistic note,
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CA: ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์˜ ๊ธ์ •์ ์ธ ์ „๋ง ์ž˜ ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:01
we're actually going to wrap up.
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์ด์ œ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ๋‹ค ๋˜์—ˆ๋„ค์š”.
ํ•ญ์ƒ ์ž๊ธฐ ์ž์‹ ๊ณผ ํƒ€์ธ์—๊ฒŒ ๋„์ „ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š”
30:03
I am in awe of how you always are willing to challenge yourself
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์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜์˜ ๋ชจ์Šต์— ์กด๊ฒฝ์„ ํ‘œํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:08
and other people.
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30:10
I feel like this recipe for never allowing yourself to be too certain
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์ž์‹ ์—๊ฒŒ ๊ฒฐ์ฝ” ํ™•์‹ ์„ ์ฃผ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์ž์„ธ๊ฐ€
๋งค์šฐ ๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋ฐฉ์‹์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋Š๊ผˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:15
is so powerful.
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30:17
I want to learn it more for myself,
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์ € ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋„ ๋” ์•Œ์•„๋ณด๊ณ  ์‹ถ๋„ค์š”.
30:19
and it's been very insightful and inspiring, actually,
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์˜ค๋Š˜ ๋Œ€ํ™”๋Š” ๋งค์šฐ ํ†ต์ฐฐ๋ ฅ ์žˆ๊ณ  ์˜๊ฐ์„ ์ฃผ๋Š” ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:23
listening to you today.
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30:24
Stewart Brand, thank you so much.
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์ŠคํŠœ์–ดํŠธ, ์ •๋ง ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:26
SB: Thank you.
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SB: ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:27
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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