David Kessler: How to find meaning after loss | TED

109,211 views ใƒป 2021-09-01

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์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

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Transcriber:
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๋ฒˆ์—ญ: ๊ธ์ • ํ•œ ๊ฒ€ํ† : Jihyeon J. Kim
00:04
Cloe Sasha Brooks: Hello, TED Community.
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You are watching a TED interview series
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called How to Deal with Difficult Feelings.
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ํด๋กœ์ด ์ƒค์ƒค ๋ธŒ๋ฃฉ์Šค: TED ์‹œ์ฒญ์ž ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„ ์•ˆ๋…•ํ•˜์„ธ์š”.
์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ์ง€๊ธˆ TED ๋Œ€๋‹ด ์‹œ๋ฆฌ์ฆˆ์ธ
00:11
Iโ€™m your host, Cloe Shasha Brooks, and a curator at TED.
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โ€œํž˜๋“  ๊ฐ์ •์„ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•โ€œ์„ ๋ณด๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ €๋Š” ์ง„ํ–‰์ž ํด๋กœ์ด ์ƒค์ƒค ๋ธŒ๋ฃฉ์Šค์ด๊ณ , TED ํ๋ ˆ์ดํ„ฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:15
In this four-episode series, we've been talking with psychologists,
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00:18
authors and other experts
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๋„ค ๊ฐœ์˜ ํŽธ์œผ๋กœ ๊ตฌ์„ฑ๋œ ์ด ์‹œ๋ฆฌ์ฆˆ์—์„œ ์‹ฌ๋ฆฌํ•™์ž๋ถ„๋“ค๊ณผ,
00:19
who have shared insights and research about difficult feelings
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์ž‘๊ฐ€, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:22
and how we can handle them.
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ํž˜๋“  ๊ฐ์ •์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ํ†ต์ฐฐ๋ ฅ๊ณผ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ์กฐ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ๊ณต์œ ํ•˜๊ณ 
00:24
So now I will be speaking with David Kessler,
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00:26
an author who has written six books on grief and loss.
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ทธ ๊ฐ์ •๋“ค์„ ๋‹ค๋ฃฐ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„์ง€ ๊ณต์œ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ง€๊ธˆ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ ์ผ€์Šฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ๋ชจ์…”๋ณผ ํ…๋ฐ์š”,
00:30
Two of those books were co-authored with Elisabeth Kรผbler-Ross,
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์Šฌํ””๊ณผ ์ƒ์‹ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์—ฌ์„ฏ ๊ถŒ์˜ ์ฑ…์„ ๋‚ธ ์ž‘๊ฐ€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:33
a Swiss American psychiatrist who was a pioneer in near-death studies.
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๊ทธ์ค‘ ๋‘ ๊ถŒ์€ ๊ณต๋™ ์ž‘๊ฐ€ ์—˜๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฒ ์Šค ํ€ด๋ธ”๋Ÿฌ ๋กœ์Šค์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•˜์˜€๊ณ 
๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ์Šค์œ„์Šค๊ณ„ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ธ ์ •์‹ ๊ณผ ์˜์‚ฌ์ด๋ฉฐ ์‚ถ๊ณผ ์ฃฝ์Œ ๋ถ„์•ผ์˜ ์„ ๊ตฌ์ž์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:37
And his most recent book, published last year,
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00:39
is called "Finding Meaning: The Sixth Stage of Grief."
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๊ทธ์˜ ์ตœ์‹ ์ž‘์ธ โ€œ์˜๋ฏธ ์ˆ˜์—…โ€œ์€
00:43
So let's bring David on screen.
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์ž‘๋…„์— ์ถœ๊ฐ„๋˜์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
00:46
Hey, David, thank you for joining us.
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๋ฐ”๋กœ ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ๋ฅผ ์—ฐ๊ฒฐํ•ด ๋ณผ๊ฒŒ์š”.
00:49
Let's dive right in.
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00:50
So many people are struggling with grief right now
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์•ˆ๋…•ํ•˜์„ธ์š” ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ, ๋‚˜์™€์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ฐ”๋กœ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ด ๋ณผ๊ฒŒ์š”.
00:53
and the five stages of grief are kind of typically known to be denial,
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์ •๋ง ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ง€๊ธˆ ์Šฌํ””์œผ๋กœ ํž˜๋“ค์–ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
์Šฌํ””์˜ ๋‹ค์„ฏ ๋‹จ๊ณ„๊ฐ€
00:58
anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
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01:01
But can you tell us about the sixth stage of grief?
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๋ถ€์ •, ๋ถ„๋…ธ, ํƒ€ํ˜‘, ์šฐ์šธ, ์ˆ˜์šฉ์œผ๋กœ ์•Œ๋ ค์ ธ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
01:04
David Kessler: Absolutely.
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01:05
And I always like to point out
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์—ฌ์„ฏ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋‹จ๊ณ„์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์”€ํ•ด ์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
01:07
I was honored to work with Kรผbler-Ross on her stages.
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๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ ์ผ€์Šฌ๋Ÿฌ: ๋„ค.
๋จผ์ € ํ€ด๋ธ”๋Ÿฌ ๋กœ์ฆˆ์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ž‘์—…ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜์–ด
01:10
They're not linear,
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ์˜๊ด‘์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ๊ณ ์š”.
01:12
they're not a map for grief, there's no one right way to do grief.
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์ด ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋“ค์ด ์‰ฌ์šด ๊ธธ์€ ์•„๋‹ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์Šฌํ””์˜ ์ง€๋„๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉฐ, ์–ด๋–ค ์˜ฌ๋ฐ”๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋„ ์•„๋‹ˆ์ฃ .
01:16
And I think as people experience them,
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01:18
and also, as you know, and some people may know,
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๊ทธ ๋‹จ๊ณ„๋“ค์„ ๊ฒฝํ—˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์–ด์š”.
01:22
I'm not only a grief specialist, but I'm a bereaved parent.
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๋ช‡ ๋ถ„๋“ค์€ ์•„์‹œ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
01:25
I had a younger son, David, die a few years ago.
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์ €๋Š” ์Šฌํ”ˆ ๊ฐ์ •์˜ ์ „๋ฌธ๊ฐ€์ด์ž ์•„์ด๋ฅผ ์žƒ์€ ๋ถ€๋ชจ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ช‡ ๋…„ ์ „์— ์„ธ์ƒ์„ ๋– ๋‚œ ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ๋ผ๋Š” ์–ด๋ฆฐ ์•„๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์—ˆ์ฃ .
01:29
Once I and so many people experience acceptance,
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์ €๋ฅผ ๋น„๋กฏํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ผ๋‹จ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ด๊ณ  ๋‚˜๋ฉด
01:34
we want more.
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01:35
Acceptance isn't enough for our generation.
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๊ทธ ์ด์ƒ์˜ ๊ฒƒ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:38
I think we want meaning.
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์˜€๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด์„œ ์ฑ„์›Œ์ง€์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
01:40
And I believe meaning is the sixth stage.
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ์–ด๋–ค ์˜๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
01:43
And when we talk about meaning,
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๊ทธ ์˜๋ฏธ ์ฐพ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์—ฌ์„ฏ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๋‹จ๊ณ„์ด๊ณ ์š”.
01:45
I always like to point out there's no meaning in a horrible death
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•  ๋•Œ
๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ฃฝ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ์˜๋ฏธ๋„ ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์–ด์š”.
01:49
or in a pandemic
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01:50
or in a wedding being canceled or a job being lost.
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์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ ๊ฐ€
์‹ค์ง, ํŒŒํ˜ผ.
01:55
The meaning isn't in the horrible event.
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01:57
The meaning is in us.
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์˜๋ฏธ๋ž€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด๋“ค ์†์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
01:59
It's what we find afterwards.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์•ˆ์— ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
02:02
CSB: I mean, I just think that's such a helpful perspective
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๋‚˜์ค‘์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ฐพ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด๊ณ ์š”.
02:05
for people to hold on to.
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CSB: ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ด€์ ์˜ ์ž์„ธ๊ฐ€
02:07
And I also really appreciate, you know,
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02:09
you've written about these seven different factors
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์ •๋ง ๋„์›€์ด ๋  ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์Šฌํ””์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ž€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ธ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด๋Œ์–ด์ฃผ๋Š”
02:11
that guide the concept of meaning when it comes to grief.
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์ผ๊ณฑ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๊ฐ๊ธฐ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์š”์†Œ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ์จ์ฃผ์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ
02:14
Can you tell us about those seven factors?
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์ด ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ์ •๋ง ์ข‹๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋Š๊ผˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:17
DK: They are, first, meaning is relative and personal.
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์ด ์ผ๊ณฑ ๊ฐ€์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์”€ํ•ด ์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
02:20
Two, meaning takes time.
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DK: ๋จผ์ €, ์ฒซ์งธ, ์˜๋ฏธ๋Š” ์ƒ๋Œ€์ ์ด๊ณ  ๊ฐœ์ธ์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:21
You may not find it until months or even years after loss
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๋‘˜์งธ, ์˜๋ฏธ๋Š” ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ๊ฑธ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:25
because you can't rush the meaning.
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์ƒ์‹ค ํ›„ ๋ช‡ ๋‹ฌ, ๋ช‡ ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ๋ชป ์ฐพ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:27
You can't say someone died or a dream died or there's a pandemic,
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์กฐ๊ธ‰ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€ ๋งˆ์„ธ์š”.
02:31
"What's the meaning?" right away, it often takes time.
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ์ฃฝ์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ, ๊ฟˆ์„ ์žƒ์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ ๋˜๋Š” ์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜๋กœ ํ”ผํ•ด ์ž…์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ,
02:34
And three, meaning doesn't require understanding.
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โ€œ๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์˜๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ๋ญ์ง€? โ€ฒ์„œ๋‘๋ฅด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ, ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ๊ฑธ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:37
You know, we may not understand why a relationship ends,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์„ธ ๋ฒˆ์งธ, ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ง๊ธฐ.
02:41
why a divorce happens,
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด, ์ธ๊ฐ„๊ด€๊ณ„๊ฐ€ ์™œ ๋๋‚˜๋Š”์ง€ ์ดํ•ด๊ฐ€ ์•ˆ ๋  ๋•Œ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
02:43
why a pet died, why a pandemic happens.
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์™œ ์ดํ˜ผ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ณ 
02:46
But we can still find meaning.
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๋ฐ˜๋ ค๊ฒฌ์ด ์™œ ์ฃฝ๊ณ , ์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜๋Š” ๋˜ ๋ฌด์—‡์ผ๊นŒ์š”.
02:48
And four, even when you do find meaning, you won't feel it was worth the cost.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
๋„ค ๋ฒˆ์งธ, ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•ด๋„ ๊ฐ€์น˜๋ฅผ ๋Š๋ผ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:53
We'd always rather have the person we loved.
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02:57
And the fifth one -- and the fifth is a big one --
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๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ์‚ฌ๋ž‘ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์„ ๊ฐ–๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ๋‚ซ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:00
your loss is not a test, a lesson, something to handle,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹ค์„ฏ ๋ฒˆ์งธ, ๋‹ค์„ฏ ๋ฒˆ์งธ๊ฐ€ ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ๋ฐ
๊ทธ ์ผ์€ ํ˜„์‹ค์ด๋ฉฐ, ๊ฒฝํ—˜์ด๋‚˜ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ๋„ ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ณ 
03:04
a gift or a blessing.
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03:06
Loss is simply what happens in life.
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์„ ๋ฌผ์ด๋‚˜ ์ถ•๋ณต๋„ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:10
And the meaning is in us afterwards.
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์ƒ์‹ค์€ ์ธ์ƒ์„ ์‚ด๋ฉด์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ์ผ ์ผ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:13
And six, only you can find your meaning.
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์˜๋ฏธ๋Š” ํ›„์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์•ˆ์—์„œ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:16
And seven,
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03:17
meaningful connections can replace those painful memories in time.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์—ฌ์„ฏ ๋ฒˆ์งธ, ์˜ค์ง ๋‹น์‹ ๋งŒ์ด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์ผ๊ณฑ ๋ฒˆ์งธ,
์ ์ ˆํ•œ ๋•Œ์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ด€๊ณ„๋Š” ์•„ํ”ˆ ์‹œ๊ฐ„๋“ค์„ ๋Œ€์ฒดํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:22
The post-traumatic stress that's going on in the pandemic,
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03:25
I always remind people, one, we're not post,
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์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜ ์‹œ๋Œ€์—์„œ ๊ณ„์†๋˜๋Š” ์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์ŠคํŠธ๋ ˆ์Šค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
03:28
and two, we can also not just go through this,
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์ €๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๋งํ•ด์š”. ํ•˜๋‚˜, ๋์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
03:32
but grow through this.
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๋‘˜, ๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ๊ฒช์–ด๋‚ด๊ธฐ๋งŒ ํ•  ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
03:34
And there's the possibility of post-traumatic growth also
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์ด๊ฒƒ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ์„ฑ์žฅํ•œ๋‹ค.
์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์„ฑ์žฅ์˜ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅ์„ฑ์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค.
03:38
that I think is so important during these tough times.
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03:41
CSB: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ํž˜๋“  ์‹œ๊ธฐ์—๋Š” ์ •๋ง ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:42
Let's bring up a question from our audience.
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03:45
OK, so someone asked,
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CSB: ๋„ค,
03:46
"Having lost a daughter,
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์‹œ์ฒญ์ž ์งˆ๋ฌธ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:47
how do I explain my grieving process to those who don't understand
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๋„ค, ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋ฌผ์–ด๋ณด์•˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
โ€œ๋”ธ์„ ์žƒ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,โ€
03:51
but want to?"
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โ€œ์ €์˜ ์Šฌํ””์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋ ค๊ณ  ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ๋Š”โ€
03:53
DK: You know, the reality is,
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โ€œ์ €์˜ ๊ฐ์ •์„ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•ด์•ผ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?โ€
03:56
people often, as hard as they try,
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DK: ํ˜„์‹ค์ ์œผ๋กœ
03:59
may not understand our grief.
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๊ฐ€๋”์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์•„๋ฌด๋ฆฌ ์• ๋ฅผ ์จ๋„
04:02
You know, I don't know what it's like for you to lose your job,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์Šฌํ””์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:05
you don't know what it's like for me to have a child die.
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์ด๋ฅผํ…Œ๋ฉด, ์ง์—…์„ ์žƒ๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ๋‹น์‹ ์—๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฑด์ง€ ์ €๋Š” ์ž˜ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๊ณ 
์ž์‹์„ ์žƒ๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฑด์ง€ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ๋ชจ๋ฅผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:09
And I think one of the important things is for us not to compare griefs
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๊ฐ์ž์˜ ์Šฌํ””์„ ๋น„๊ตํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
04:14
and to know the world is big enough for all our losses.
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์„ธ์ƒ์—๋Š” ๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜๋„ ๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ์ผ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜์ฃ .
04:19
So I think sometimes we have to let go of the expectation that they get it.
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๊ทธ ๋“ค์ด ์ดํ•ดํ•  ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋Œ€๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€๋”์€ ๋‚ด๋ ค๋†“์•„์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
04:25
And we have to go, "I know you can't get it.
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04:28
So let me tell you what this grief feels like to me."
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โ€œ์ดํ•ด๊ฐ€ ์ž˜๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฑฐ ์•Œ์•„.โ€
04:32
And share our grief.
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โ€œ๋‚ด๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์–ด๋–ค์ง€ ๋งํ•ด์ค„๊ฒŒ.โ€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์‹์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ€์•ผ ํ•˜์ฃ .
04:34
CSB: Yeah. And you, kind of, have talked a lot about that,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์Šฌํ””์„ ๊ณต์œ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:37
how there's big losses and little losses,
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CSB: ๋„ค, ๊ทธ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์”€ ๋งŽ์ด ํ•ด์ฃผ์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
04:39
but they're all valid, right?
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04:41
And they all get to coexist.
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํฐ ์Šฌํ””, ์ž‘์€ ์Šฌํ””์ด ์žˆ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
04:42
DK: I remember that I was walking back in April, in front of my house
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๋ชจ๋‘ ์กด์žฌํ•˜๋Š” ์Šฌํ””์ด์ž–์•„์š”, ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ ?
ํ•จ๊ป˜ ๊ณต์กดํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
DK: 4์›”์— ์ง‘ ์•ž์„ ํ•œ ์นœ๊ตฌ์™€ ๊ฑธ์–ด๊ฐ€๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
04:48
with a friend, six feet apart with our masks on.
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04:51
And a young woman walked up to me and said, "Oh, my gosh," you know,
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๋งˆ์Šคํฌ๋ฅผ ์ฐฉ์šฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์•ˆ์ „๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋‘๊ณ ์š”.
์–ด๋–ค ์—ฌ์„ฑ๋ถ„์ด ์ €์—๊ฒŒ ์˜ค์‹œ๋”๋‹ˆ,
04:55
"I heard you do something in grief.
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04:57
My wedding's just been postponed."
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โ€œ์Šฌํ”” ๊ด€๋ จ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜์‹ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋“ค์—ˆ์–ด์š”.โ€
04:59
And she burst into tears.
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โ€œ์ €๋Š” ๊ฒฐํ˜ผ์‹์ด ์—ฐ๊ธฐ๋์–ด์š”.โ€
05:01
And I talked to her, we --
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๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ์šธ์Œ์„ ํ„ฐํŠธ๋ ธ์ฃ .
05:04
You know, she shared her experience and everything, and I consoled her.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๊ณ ๋Š” ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ๋‚˜๋ˆ„์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ์ž์‹ ์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ๊ณต์œ ํ–ˆ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋…€๋ฅผ ์œ„๋กœํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:08
And after she walked away, my friend said, "Oh, my gosh,
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05:12
I can't believe she was going on and on about her wedding,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋…€๊ฐ€ ๋– ๋‚œ ํ›„, ์ œ ์นœ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ•˜๊ธธ
05:16
when your child has died.
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โ€œ๋„ˆ๋Š” ์•„์ด๋ฅผ ์žƒ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ ๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ๊ฒฐํ˜ผ์‹์ด ๋ฏธ๋ฃจ์–ด์กŒ๋‹ค๊ณ 
05:17
She's going to get to have another wedding."
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์ƒ๋‹ด์„ ํ•˜๋‹ค๋‹ˆ, ๋„ˆ๋ฌดํ•˜๋„ค.
05:20
And I said, "No, no, no, we don't compare in grief.
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โ€œ๊ฒฐํ˜ผ์ด์•ผ ๋‹ค์‹œ ํ•˜๋ฉด ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ž–์•„.โ€
05:23
We don't have a broken head, we have a broken heart."
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋งํ–ˆ์–ด์š”, โ€œ์•„๋‹ˆ, ์Šฌํ””์„ ๋น„๊ตํ•˜๋ฉด ์•ˆ ๋ผ.โ€
05:26
And everyone gets to have their own unique grief.
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โ€œ๋‡Œ๋ฅผ ๋‹ค์นœ ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ, ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ๋‹ค์นœ ๊ฑฐ์ž–์•„.โ€
05:30
And, you know, she's been dreaming about her wedding since she was five.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชจ๋‘๋Š” ๊ฐ์ž ๊ณ ์œ ์˜ ์Šฌํ””์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:34
It doesn't take away from my grief.
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๊ทธ๋…€๋Š” ๋‹ค์„ฏ ์‚ด ๋•Œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๊ฒฐํ˜ผ์„ ๊ฟˆ๊พธ์–ด ์™”์„ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
05:37
All these losses live in the world together.
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์ œ ์Šฌํ””์—๊ฒŒ์„œ ์•—์•„๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
05:40
CSB: Let's bring another question from the audience.
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์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ์ƒ์‹ค์€ ์„ธ์ƒ์—์„œ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์กด์žฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:44
Someone is asking, "Can you tell us more about post-traumatic growth?
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CSB: ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์งˆ๋ฌธ ๋“œ๋ฆด๊ฒŒ์š”.
05:47
How can I start to grow from a loss?"
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โ€œ์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์„ฑ์žฅ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋” ๋ง์”€ํ•ด ์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?โ€
05:50
DK: Itโ€™s such a great question,
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โ€œ์ƒ์‹ค์„ ๊ฒช์€ ํ›„์— ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์„ฑ์žฅํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?โ€
05:52
because we always hear about post-traumatic stress,
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DK: ์ •๋ง ์ข‹์€ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ ์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์ŠคํŠธ๋ ˆ์Šค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ๋“ฃ์ง€๋งŒ
05:56
But post-traumatic growth actually occurs more.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ๋Š” ์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์„ฑ์žฅ์ด ๋” ๋นˆ๋ฒˆํžˆ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:00
And that is the finding meaning.
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06:02
Here's one of the myths:
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์˜๋ฏธ ์ˆ˜์—… ์ฑ… ๋‚ด์šฉ์ด๊ณ ์š”.
06:04
We think we make our grief get smaller, that that's the goal.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์˜คํ•ด ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๊ฐ€ ์Šฌํ””์„ ์ž‘๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ  ๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:09
The goal isn't to make our grief smaller.
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06:12
The goal is for us to become bigger, to grow around this grief.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋Š” ์Šฌํ””์„ ๊ฒช์œผ๋ฉฐ ๋” ์„ฑ์žฅํ•˜๊ณ  ๋ฐœ์ „ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
06:18
It's not "what are we going to do after this pandemic,"
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06:22
but "who are we going to be?"
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โ€œ์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ๋๋‚˜๋ฉด ๋ญ ํ•˜์ง€?โ€ ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ,
06:24
It's not, "what are we going to do after this loss?"
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โ€œ๋‚˜๋Š” ์–ด๋–ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ?โ€ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:28
But "Who are we going to be?"
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โ€œ์ด ์Šฌํ””์ด ์ง€๋‚˜๋ฉด ๋‚˜๋Š” ๋ญ ํ•˜์ง€โ€ ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ,
06:29
How can we honor the person who died?
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" ์–ด๋–ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ๋˜์–ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ?โ€์˜ˆ์š”.
06:32
How can we make a life and a world that's more meaningful,
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๋– ๋‚œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์„ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์˜๊ด‘์œผ๋กœ ๊ธฐ๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋ฉด ์‚ถ๊ณผ ์„ธ์ƒ์„ ๋” ์˜๋ฏธ ์žˆ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”.
06:36
where maybe the bad thing that happened to you
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06:39
doesn't happen to other people in the future.
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์—๊ฒŒ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ๋˜ ์•ˆ์ข‹์€ ์ผ๋“ค์ด
06:42
Or you shape someone's legacy.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์—๊ฒŒ ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์„ธ์ƒ์ด์š”.
06:45
Or we keep talking about them.
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€์˜ ์—…์ ์„ ์ž˜ ๊ธฐ๋กํ•˜๊ณ 
06:46
As long as we talk about our loved ones who are no longer physically with us,
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๊ณ„์† ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์œก์ฒด์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋” ์ด์ƒ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์ง€๋งŒ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ๋ž‘ํ–ˆ๋˜
06:51
they don't really die fully.
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06:53
So just allowing ourselves to continue in life
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๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์žŠ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ํ•œ ์™„์ „ํžˆ ์ฃฝ์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ž์‹ ์ด ์‚ถ์„ ์ง€์†ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋ฅผ ํ—ˆ์šฉํ•ด ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ
06:58
is a bit of post-traumatic growth and not shutting down.
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07:02
And we need support.
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๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฑธ ์ฐจ๋‹จ์‹œํ‚ค์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ์™ธ์ƒ ํ›„ ์„ฑ์žฅ์˜ ํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:04
You know, it's interesting, if something's going on with our car,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋„์›€์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์žฌ๋ฏธ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑด, ์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด ์ž๋™์ฐจ์— ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉด
07:09
we get support.
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07:10
If something's going on with our apartment,
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07:12
we get support.
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๋„์›€์„ ๋ฐ›์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:13
Sometimes we think we just have to fight our way through grief
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์ง‘์— ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด๋„
๋„์›€์„ ๋ฐ›์•„์š”.
07:17
and it's OK to ask for support and for help.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‚˜ ์Šฌํ””์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ๋Š” ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ์ด๊ฒจ๋‚ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•  ๋•Œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์ฃ 
07:21
CSB: It's so important to remember that.
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๋„์›€๊ณผ ์ง€์ง€๋ฅผ ๊ตฌํ•ด๋„ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:23
When it's not tangible we forget how to ask for help.
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CSB: ๋„ค, ๊ผญ ๊ธฐ์–ตํ•ด์•ผ๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”.
์‹ค์žฌํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ๋„์›€์„ ๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์–ด๋ ต๊ฒŒ ๋Š๊ปด์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:28
Along those lines,
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07:29
do you believe there's a time line for grief?
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๋น„์Šทํ•œ ๋งฅ๋ฝ์œผ๋กœ
07:33
DK: Absolutely not.
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์Šฌํ””์— ์ˆœ์„œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋‚˜์š”?
07:35
You know, when people ask me,
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DK: ๋‹น์—ฐํžˆ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:37
"How long is my wife, my husband, my best friend going to grieve,"
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ €์—๊ฒŒ ๋ฌผ์–ด๋ด์š”.
โ€œ์ €์˜ ์•„๋‚ด, ๋‚จํŽธ, ์นœ๊ตฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์˜ค๋žซ๋™์•ˆ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ ๊นŒ์š”?โ€
07:41
I always say, "How long is the person going to be dead?
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07:44
Because if they're going to be dead for a long time,
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ์ €๋Š” ๋Œ€๋‹ตํ•˜์ฃ , โ€œ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์–ธ์ œ ์ฃฝ์„๊นŒ์š”?โ€
07:46
you're going to grieve for a long time."
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โ€œ๊ทธ ๋“ค์ด ์™„์ „ํžˆ ๋– ๋‚œ ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋™์•ˆ์€โ€
07:48
It doesn't mean you will always grieve with pain.
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โ€œ๊ทธ๋งŒํผ ๊ธธ๊ฒŒ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.โ€
07:52
Hopefully in time you can grieve with more love than pain.
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ๊ณ ํ†ต์œผ๋กœ ์Šฌํผํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋œป์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๋Šฆ์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒŒ ๊ณ ํ†ต์ด ์•„๋‹Œ ์‚ฌ๋ž‘์œผ๋กœ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๊ธธ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
07:56
But there is no time line,
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07:57
and I always say we don't get over loss.
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์Šฌํ””์— ์ •ํ•ด์ง„ ์ˆœ์„œ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฑด ์—†๊ณ 
08:01
We don't recover from loss.
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์ƒ์‹ค์„ ๊ทน๋ณตํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ๊ฑฐ๋ผ ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:03
Our loved one was not a cold or a flu.
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๊ฑด์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ํšŒ๋ณต์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:06
We learn to live with it.
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ๋ž‘ํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์€ ๊ฐ๊ธฐ๋‚˜ ๋…๊ฐ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ์ž–์•„์š”.
08:08
CSB: And for those who are maybe ready to start on the path of meaning
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์™€ ํ•ญ์ƒ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
CSB: ๊ทธ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์„ ์ค€๋น„๊ฐ€ ๋œ ๋ถ„๋“ค์„ ์œ„ํ•ด
08:13
as they move through their grief,
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08:15
how does one start that process?
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์Šฌํ””์„ ๋”›๊ณ  ์›€์ง์ด๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๋งŒํผ
08:18
DK: It's actually a decision.
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๊ทธ ์„ฑ์žฅ์˜ ๊ณผ์ •์„ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋ฉด ์ข‹์„๊นŒ์š”?
08:21
Are you willing to find meaning in time?
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DK: ์‚ฌ์‹ค ์„ ํƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:24
Are you willing to let yourself just live a little more?
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๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๋Šฆ์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒŒ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์„ ์ค€๋น„๊ฐ€ ๋˜์…จ๋‚˜์š”?
์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ์‚ด์•„๋ณผ ๊ธฐํšŒ๋ฅผ ์ž์‹ ์—๊ฒŒ ์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
08:28
Are you willing to try to think of a way
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08:31
that might honor what's happened in our world
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์‚ด๋ฉด์„œ ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ์ผ๋“ค์ด๋‚˜
08:34
or what's happened in the loss in your life?
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๋‚ด๊ฐ€ ์ธ์ƒ์—์„œ ์žƒ๊ฒŒ ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์กด์ค‘ํ•˜๊ณ 
08:37
It's a small decision.
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ทธ ๋“ค์„ ์ž˜ ๋ณด๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„์ง€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด ๋ณผ ์ค€๋น„๊ฐ€ ๋˜์…จ๋‚˜์š”?
08:40
Am I willing to grow?
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์ž‘์€ ๊ฒฐ์ •์ด์—์š”.
08:43
Am I willing to live past this in a way that honors what I've lost?
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์„ฑ์žฅํ•  ์ค€๋น„๊ฐ€ ๋˜์—ˆ๋Š”๊ฐ€?
์ด์ œ ๋‚˜์—๊ฒŒ ์—†์–ด์ง„ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์กด์ค‘ํ•˜๋ฉฐ ์‚ด์•„๋ณผ ์ž์‹ ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฐ€?
08:48
CSB: Let's bring up another question from the audience.
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08:50
"How can we help our children when they experience grief?"
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CSB: ์‹œ์ฒญ์ž ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:54
DK: Such a good question.
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โ€œ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ์Šฌํ””์„ ๊ฒฝํ—˜ํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋„์šธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?โ€
08:55
You know, our children are often the forgotten grievers,
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DK: ์ •๋ง ์ข‹์€ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:59
And it's so important --
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์•„์ด๋“ค์€ ํ”ํžˆ ์Šฌํ”ˆ ๊ฐ์ •์„ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ์กด์žฌ๋กœ์„œ ๋ฐฐ์ œ๋˜์ง€๋งŒ
09:01
Here's one of the things:
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09:02
Mourning is what we do on the outside.
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์ •๋ง ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฉด
09:05
Grief is what's inside of us.
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์• ๋„ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๊นฅ์—์„œ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด
09:07
I can't make you grieve.
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์Šฌํ””์ด๋ž€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์•ˆ์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:10
I can't make my kids grieve.
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ์Šฌํ”„๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค ์ˆ˜๋Š” ์—†์–ด์š”.
09:13
All we can do is model healthy grief.
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์•„์ด๋“ค์˜ ๋งˆ์Œ์„ ์Šฌํ”„๊ฒŒ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:16
And how do we model healthy grief for our children?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑด ์˜ฌ๋ฐ”๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๋Š” ๋ชจ์Šต์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:20
We tell them part of our work is to grieve fully.
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ค„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
09:23
It's OK to be sad.
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์˜จ์ „ํžˆ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ด์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:25
It's OK to miss that person.
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์Šฌํผํ•ด๋„ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ๋‹ค.
09:28
And to live fully.
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๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์„ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ์›Œํ•ด๋„ ๊ดœ์ฐฎ๋‹ค.
09:30
Life also has to go on.
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์™„์ „ํžˆ ์‚ด์•„ ๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
09:32
I've still got to go to work, you still got to go to school.
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์ธ์ƒ์€ ๊ณ„์† ๋‚˜์•„๊ฐ€์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:35
So it's the grieving and the living is what we model for them.
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์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์ผ์€ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ , ํ•™๊ต์— ์–ด์จŒ๋“  ๊ฐ€์•ผ ํ•˜์ฃ .
์ž˜ ์Šฌํผํ•˜๊ณ , ์ž˜ ์‚ด์•„๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ‘œ๋ณธ์ด ๋˜์–ด ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:39
CSB: And it's so hard to with kids
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09:41
because it seems like, in some ways,
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CSB: ์•„์ด๋“ค ๋ฉด์— ์žˆ์–ด ๋” ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ผ ๊ฐ™๋„ค์š”.
09:44
they may not even know what they're feeling, right?
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ๋ฉด์—์„œ
09:46
So, like, how much of grief with children
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๋ณธ์ธ์˜ ๊ฐ์ •์„ ์Šค์Šค๋กœ๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ž–์•„์š”, ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ ?
09:49
involves helping them understand definitions
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ญ”๊ฐ€, ์•„์ด๋“ค๊ณผ ์Šฌํ””์„ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ
09:52
or even identifying feelings and all that?
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์Šฌํ””์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋„์™€์ฃผ๊ณ 
09:55
DK: Yeah, and to just name it and open the conversation
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๊ทธ ๊ฐ์ •์„ ์•Œ์•„๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ, ๋“ฑ๋“ฑ
09:58
and just to let them know,
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DK: ๋„ค, ๊ทธ์ € ๋ง์„ ๊บผ๋‚ด๊ณ  ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜์„ธ์š”.
10:00
you know, you can always talk about it with me.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•Œ๋ ค์ฃผ์„ธ์š”.
10:03
You know, kids actually understand more than we give them credit for.
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ๋‚˜์—๊ฒŒ ํ„ธ์–ด๋†“์•„๋„ ๋œ๋‹ค๊ณ ์š”.
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋ณด๋‹ค ์•„์ด๋“ค์€ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋” ์ž˜ ์ดํ•ดํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:08
CSB: That is true.
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10:09
DK: And euphemisms don't work.
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10:11
Don't tell them Grandpa's gone to sleep or Grandpa's on a long trip.
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CSB: ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ .
DK: ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋Œ๋ ค ๋งํ•˜๋ฉด ์•ˆ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
ํ• ์•„๋ฒ„์ง€๋Š” ์ž ์„ ์ž๋Š” ์ค‘์ด๋ผ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๊ธด ์—ฌํ–‰์„ ๋– ๋‚ฌ๋‹ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ง๊ณ 
10:15
You want to be honest.
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10:17
CSB: So, OK, here we are in a new time.
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์†”์งํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:19
We're starting to come out of this pandemic,
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CSB: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์š”์ฆ˜ ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:21
at least in some countries in the world.
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์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์—์„œ๋Š” ์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜์˜ ์œ„๊ธฐ๋ฅผ
10:25
How do you think our collective grief might shift
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ํƒ€๊ฐœํ•˜๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”.
์•ž์œผ๋กœ์˜ ๋ช‡ ๋‹ฌ์—์„œ ํ–ฅํ›„ ๋ช‡ ๋…„ ๊นŒ์ง€
10:29
in the next few months to years from here?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๊ณต๋™์˜ ์Šฌํ””๋“ค์ด ๋ฐ”๋€” ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
10:33
DK: Well, the one thing I hope we don't do is
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10:35
I hope we don't lose this ability to have these conversations,
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DK: ์ œ๊ฐ€ ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑด
์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋Œ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ๊นŒ์ง€ ์žƒ์–ด๋ฒ„๋ฆฌ์ง€๋Š” ๋ง์•˜์œผ๋ฉด ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
10:40
because that's been one of the pieces of meaning
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10:43
that's been important,
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10:44
is for the first time we're naming these feelings we're having.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์˜๋ฏธ ์ฐพ๊ธฐ ์ค‘ ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์˜ˆ์š”.
์ •๋ง ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฐ์ •์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ์ฒ˜์Œ ์ž… ๋ฐ–์— ๋‚ธ ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ ์š”.
10:49
We're understanding grief, we're talking more about grief.
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10:53
And I hope we don't lose that after this.
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์Šฌํ””์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์Šฌํ””์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋” ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ธ ๋งŒํผ
10:55
I hope we understand grief is such a natural part of life,
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์ €๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด๊ฒƒ์„ ์žŠ์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์œผ๋ฉด ํ•ด์š”.
์Šฌํ””์ด๋ž€ ์ธ์ƒ์—์„œ ์ž์—ฐ์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šด ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์ดํ•ดํ–ˆ์œผ๋ฉด ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค,
11:00
that everyone you've ever admired,
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11:03
every amazing person in the world, has gone through tough grief.
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์กด๊ฒฝํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทธ ๋ˆ„๊ตฌ๋ผ๋„
์ด ์„ธ์ƒ์— ์–ด๋– ํ•œ ๋Œ€๋‹จํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด๋“ , ์Šฌํ””์ด๋ž€ ๊ฐ์ •์„ ๊ฒช์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:08
And there's nothing wrong with you when it happens to you.
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11:11
It is part of our lives.
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์ด ์ผ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚œ ๊ฑด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ž˜๋ชป์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:13
CSB: Yeah.
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11:15
We're coming close to the end,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์‚ถ์˜ ์ผ๋ถ€์ด์ฃ .
11:16
so just as a final question for you, you know,
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CSB: ๋„ค.
๊ฑฐ์˜ ๋งˆ์น  ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ธ๋ฐ์š”,
11:19
if someone is really struggling through the depths of their grief right now,
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๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์œผ๋กœ
11:22
what's just the most important thing for them to remember?
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๋งŒ์•ฝ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์Šฌํ””์œผ๋กœ ๋งŽ์ด ํž˜๋“ค์–ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์ด ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด์š”.
11:26
DK: Reach out and get support, talk to someone,
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๊ทธ ๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๊ธฐ์–ตํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
11:29
maybe someone who's been in grief themselves
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DK: ๋„์›€ ์š”์ฒญ์„ ์‹œ๋„ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ, ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€์—๊ฒŒ ํ„ธ์–ด๋†“๋Š” ๊ฒƒ,
11:32
that can share that with you.
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11:33
It can be the family member, the coworker
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ํ˜ผ์ž์„œ ํž˜๋“ค์–ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€๊ฐ€ ๋  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์ฃ .
์„œ๋กœ ๊ณต์œ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ž–์•„์š”.
11:37
and get support from an organization,
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๊ฐ€์กฑ ๊ตฌ์„ฑ์›์ด๋“ , ๋™๋ฃŒ์ด๋“ 
11:40
grief.com, as well as so many other sites,
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๊ธฐ๊ด€์—์„œ ๋„์›€์„ ์–ป์„ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”.
11:43
have lots of free resources that people can find.
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grief.com๋ฟ๋งŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ์—์„œ๋„
๋ฌด๋ฃŒ๋กœ ์ œ๊ณต๋˜๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ๋‚ด์šฉ์„ ๋ณด์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
11:47
And I also want to remind people,
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11:50
we get so afraid of our feelings,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ธฐ์‹œํ‚ค๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๊ฒƒ์€
11:52
like if I start crying, I'll never stop.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ž์‹ ์˜ ๊ฐ์ •์— ๋‘๋ ค์›€์„ ๋Š๋ผ๋Š” ๋ฐ
์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด, ๋‚ด๊ฐ€ ์šธ๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋ฉด, ๋ฉˆ์ถœ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๊ฒ ์ง€.
11:56
I remind people no feeling is final, no feeling is forever.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿด ๋•Œ ์ €๋Š” ๊ฐ์ •์€ ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋‹ค, ์˜์›ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋‹ค.๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ด์š”.
12:00
You do stop crying eventually,
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12:03
but release those feelings in a healthy way.
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๋ˆˆ๋ฌผ์€ ์–ธ์  ๊ฐ€ ๋ฉˆ์ถฅ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:06
CSB: Yeah, that's really helpful.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฐ์ •๋“ค์„ ๊ฑด๊ฐ•ํ•œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ํ’€์–ด๋†“๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
12:07
I think that's one of the things that growing up has shown me the most,
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CSB: ์ •๋ง ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜๋Š” ๋ง์”€ํ•ด ์ฃผ์…จ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:11
is you know, any emotion is not permanent.
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์„ฑ์žฅํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋Š๋‚€ ๊ฒƒ ์ค‘ ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:14
And so that's a source of relief, right?
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์–ด๋– ํ•œ ๊ฐ์ •๋„ ์˜๊ตฌ์ ์ด์ง€ ์•Š์ž–์•„์š”.
12:17
DK: And we get so stuck in thinking "This is it forever."
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์œ„๋กœ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ธ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”. ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ฃ ?
12:20
But we don't know what tomorrow is going to look like.
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DK: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฐ€๋” โ€œ์˜์›ํžˆ ์ด๋Ÿฌ๊ฒ ์ง€โ€๋ผ๋Š” ์ƒ๊ฐ์— ๊ฐ‡ํ˜€์š”.
12:23
I always say take the word -- always --
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋‚ด์ผ์ด ์–ด๋–จ์ง€๋Š” ์•„๋ฌด๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฅด์ฃ .
12:25
I say take the word "always" and "never" out of our vocabulary.
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์ €๋Š” ํ•ญ์ƒ โ€˜ํ•ญ์ƒโ€™์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๋ง์„ ์ž˜ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด ๋ณด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•ด์š”.
12:29
When we go, "I'm always going to be sad,"
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โ€˜ํ•ญ์ƒโ€™ ๋˜๋Š” โ€˜์ ˆ๋Œ€โ€™ ์ด ๋‘ ๋‹จ์–ด๋ฅผ ํ•ญ์ƒ ์œ ๋…ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:31
or "I'm never going to be happy again."
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โ€œ๋‚˜๋Š” ํ‰์ƒ ์Šฌํ”Œ ๊ฑฐ์•ผ.โ€
12:33
No, you don't know what tomorrow is like,
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โ€™๋‚œ ๋‹ค์‹œ ํ–‰๋ณตํ•ด์งˆ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๊ฒ ์ง€.โ€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์‹์˜ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋ฅผ ํ•  ๋•Œ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
12:35
but today you're feeling sad.
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12:37
Just name your feelings for today.
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์•„๋‹ˆ์š”, ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์€ ๋‚ด์ผ์„ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์—†์–ด์š”.
์˜ค๋Š˜์€ ์Šฌํ”Œ์ง€ ๋ชฐ๋ผ๋„์š”.
12:40
CSB: Yeah.
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์˜ค๋Š˜์˜ ๊ฐ์ •๋งŒ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜์„ธ์š”.
12:41
Thank you, David, this has been really, really meaningful,
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12:44
and we've learned so much from you.
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CSB: ๋„ค.
๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค, ๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ, ์ •๋ง ์˜๋ฏธ ์žˆ๋Š” ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:46
So thanks for joining us.
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12:48
DK: Thank you.
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๋ฐ์ด๋น„๋“œ์—๊ฒŒ ์ •๋ง ๋งŽ์ด ๋ฐฐ์› ์–ด์š”.
12:49
CSB: Have a great day.
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์˜ค๋Š˜ ๋‚˜์™€์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
DK: ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
CSB: ์ข‹์€ ํ•˜๋ฃจ ๋ณด๋‚ด์„ธ์š”.
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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