The economic benefits of climate action | Marcelo Mena

Translator: Christy Angelia Reviewer: Reno Kanti Riananda

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Marcelo Mena is an environmentalist

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Marcelo Mena adalah

pemerhati lingkungan, cendekiawan, dan mantan Menteri Lingkungan Hidup Chili.

and a scholar,

and he is the former Minister of Environment for Chile.

Welcome, Marcelo.

Selamat datang, Marcelo.

Marcelo Mena: How are you doing, Whitney? Thanks for the invitation.

Marcelo Mena: Apa kabar, Whitney? Terima kasih untuk undangannya.

WPR: Perfect. Great.

WPR: Sempurna. Baik.

Of course, thank you so much for being with us here today.

Terima kasih banyak telah bergabung bersama kami hari ini.

And you know, before we dive into the future of climate action

Sebelum kita membahas masa depan aksi iklim

in Chile and beyond,

di Chili dan sekitarnya,

I think it would be great for us to talk about the present

Saya pikir akan sangat baik untuk bicara tentang masa kini

and why Chile really represents a country that is worth thinking about

dan mengapa Chili pantas diperhitungkan

when we talk about climate.

ketika bicara tentang iklim.

You know, recently there have been lots of commendable actions

Anda tahu, akhir-akhir ini ada banyak tindakan terpuji

taken by your country when we think about climate.

dari negara Anda ketika bicara tentang iklim.

Chile recently committed to net-zero emissions by 2050,

Chili baru-baru ini berkomitmen mencapai emisi bersih nol pada 2050,

the first in the Americas to do this,

pertama di benua Amerika,

and that's especially notable when you think about

dan hal itu sangat penting saat memikirkan

how much of Chile's economy really depends on carbon emissions:

bahwa sebagian besar ekonomi Chili sangat bergantung pada emisi karbon:

mining and agriculture and spaces like that.

seperti pertambangan, pertanian, dan sejenisnya.

So could you start a little bit by just talking about

Jadi bisakah Anda memulai dengan

how would this even be possible to get to net-zero emissions in 30 years,

bagaimana cara mencapai emisi bersih nol dalam 30 tahun,

and what would that mean for Chile?

dan apa artinya itu bagi Chili?

MM: Mm-hmm. It was a very surreal image

MM: Mm-hmm. Itu adalah gambaran yang seperti mimpi

when we saw Minister Schmidt, the COP25 president,

saat kami menyaksikan Menteri Schmidt, presiden COP25,

Patricia Espinosa, the UN head on climate change,

Patricia Espinosa, ketua PBB untuk perubahan iklim,

with masks, delivering this new NDC.

dengan masker, menyampaikan dokumen baru Kontribusi Nasional yang Ditentukan (NDC).

The important thing here is, things that are hard to build require consensus,

Hal yang penting di sini adalah semua hal yang sulit dibangun membutuhkan konsensus,

but therefore to get rid of that commitment,

tetapi jika ingin menghapus konsensus tersebut,

you need to have another consensus.

butuh konsensus lagi.

This hasn't happened,

Ini belum terjadi,

so the thing is, the reason why Chile has a sort of vision towards mitigation

sehingga alasan mengapa Chili memiliki semacam visi

menuju mitigasi yang ambisius

that's ambitious

is that we see that there's a big economic benefit.

adalah karena kita melihat keuntungan ekonomi besar.

We have seen, we've witnessed,

Kita sudah melihat, menyaksikan,

what the renewable energy sector has been able to do for investment,

apa yang mampu dilakukan sektor energi terbarukan untuk investasi,

for lowering energy costs.

untuk menurunkan biaya energi.

And so therefore to reach this goal,

Untuk mencapai tujuan ini,

we will inevitably expand to 100 percent renewable,

tak dapat dihindari kami harus berkembang menjadi 100 persen energi terbarukan,

but we'll also transform our industry, which is heavy on fossil fuels,

tetapi kami juga akan mengubah industri yang menggunakan bahan bakar fosil

towards low emissions,

menjadi beremisi rendah,

with the hydrogen economy kicking in,

dengan adanya ekonomi bahan bakar hidrogen

with a recently launched committee that I formed,

bersama komite yang baru saya bentuk

that Minister Jobet, the Minister of Energy, set up.

dan dipersiapkan oleh Menteri Energi, yaitu Menteri Jobet.

And also energy efficiency and a lot of capture, carbon capture.

Selain itu, menetapkan efisiensi energi dan penangkapan karbon.

We are endowed with a lot of natural capital.

Kami diberkahi dengan banyak modal alam.

Taking care of that natural capital and expanding plantations

Menjaga modal alam tersebut dan memperluas perkebunan

will allow us to reach net-zero by 2050.

akan membantu kami mencapai misi nol bersih di tahun 2050.

WPR: That's great.

WPR: Luar biasa.

And now it seems like Chile has such a huge focus, then,

Dan sekarang sepertinya Chili sangat fokus

in thinking about renewable energy and thinking about climate.

memikirkan tentang energi terbarukan dan memikirkan tentang iklim.

But this wasn't always the case.

Namun sebelumnya tidak begini.

Could you talk a little bit, I guess,

Bisakah Anda ceritakan sedikit,

about the history of how Chile arrived at this moment?

tentang sejarah bagaimana Chili sampai pada momen ini?

MM: Yeah, so in 2011, 2010,

MM: Di tahun 2011, 2010,

we had an energy discussion

kami mengadakan diskusi energi

with incumbents saying the only way we could solve our energy problems

dan petahana berkata satu-satunya cara memecahkan masalah energi

will be through large coal and large hydro in the Patagonia.

adalah pembangkit listrik tenaga batu bara atau air di Patagonia.

And that really polarized the discussion.

Dan itu menimbulkan banyak pertentangan.

We got together as a community after large protests

Kami bersatu menjadi sebuah komunitas

setelah protes besar yang memicu banyak pergerakan sosial,

that triggered a lot of social movements,

and we started discussing

lalu kami mulai mendiskusikan cara memutuskan penggunaan energi selanjutnya.

how we should be able to do our energy going forward.

Populasi, masyarakat yang resah, menginginkan hampir 6000 megawatt

The population, public unrest, set up almost 6,000 megawatts

of coal-fired power plants to never be built.

pembangkit listrik batu bara tak dibangun.

And when the government, Michelle Bachelet's government came in,

Ketika pemerintahan Michelle Bachelet hadir,

we pulled the plug on the HidroAysén project,

kami menghentikan proyek HidroAysén,

which is a big hydro project in the Patagonia.

sebuah proyek besar di Patagonia.

And both of these conditions enabled an opportunity

Kondisi ini membuka kesempatan

for renewable energy to set in.

bagi proyek energi terbarukan.

We put in carbon taxes,

Kami menetapkan pajak karbon, regulasi lingkungan,

we put in environmental regulations,

and we set up an energy strategy that we did, building on discussing

dan menetapkan strategi energi berdasarkan hasil diskusi dan data,

and looking at the data,

in which we thought that the 70 percent renewable energy by 2050

di mana 70 persen energi terbarukan pada tahun 2050

was going to be a target that we could agree on.

adalah target yang dapat kami sepakati.

This target has been long surpassed.

Target ini telah lama dilampaui.

Now we're thinking of reaching that same goal by 2030.

Saat ini kami berencana mencapai tujuan yang sama pada tahun 2030.

WPR: And what you were saying about social protests,

WPR: Dan yang Anda katakan tentang protes sosial,

that's something that a lot of people maybe have been following

itu sesuatu yang sudah diketahui banyak orang yang mengikuti

news of what's going in Chile are familiar with recent social protests,

berita keadaan di Chili tentang protes sosial baru-baru ini,

and I think I'm curious about how you see that factoring in

dan saya ingin tahu bagaimana Anda melihat hal tersebut

to climate action moving forward.

dapat mendukung aksi kemajuan iklim.

How might these social protests

Bagaimana protes sosial ini

play a role in what climate action you see?

memainkan peran dalam aksi iklim yang Anda lihat?

And, really, how is it possible for Chile to be a leader in climate action

Dan apakah mungkin Chili menjadi pemimpin aksi iklim,

while also struggling with some of these social issues?

padahal di saat bersamaan harus berjuang dengan isu-isu sosial?

MM: Well, the social issues,

MM: Mengenai isu sosial,

which are very profound and important to address,

yang sangat mendalam dan penting untuk dibicarakan,

caused, for example, COP25 to not be able to be held in Santiago

menyebabkan COP25 tidak bisa diadakan di Santiago

and to go to Madrid.

dan harus pindah ke Madrid.

And this also shifted a whole bunch of the discussions and announcements

Ini juga menggeser sejumlah diskusi dan pengumuman

yang belum selesai, tetapi kami berharap dapat segera dilakukan.

that weren't done

and we were expecting to have.

But regardless of this,

Namun demikian, fakta bahwa kami memiliki komitmen dari pemerintah

the fact that we have this commitment from the government today

shows that there's a resolution to continue forward.

menunjukkan ada resolusi untuk terus melanjutkan.

But really, the economic model of Chile was brought into question,

Namun sesungguhnya model ekonomi Chili muncul

because the environmental issues, for example, are quite widespread,

karena maraknya isu lingkungan hidup,

and many times you have large coal-fired power plants

dan sering kali pembangkit listrik tenaga batu bara terletak di permukiman,

being situated where people live

and with higher mortality rates.

dan dengan tingkat kematian yang lebih tinggi.

Somebody who lives where a power plant is installed

Orang yang tinggal berdekatan dengan pembangkit listrik batu bara

has twice the rate of death

memiliki tingkat kematian dua kali lebih tinggi

in comparison to other people in Chile.

dibandingkan orang lain di Chili.

So the model of having many people be impacted for the benefit of few

Kondisi di mana banyak orang terkena dampak demi keuntungan segelintir orang

is something that caused and triggered the social unrest.

adalah hal yang menyebabkan dan memicu keresahan sosial.

And it goes into the economic model itself

Hal itu berlaku pula dalam model ekonomi

of extracting, polluting, impacting communities

yang mengambil, mengotori, dan berdampak ke masyarakat

that may not see the benefits of these economic activities.

yang mungkin tak merasakan manfaat dari aktivitas ekonomi itu.

So while we've done a lot --

Sehingga meski banyak yang telah kami tuntaskan --

we've come a long way, for example, in securing a very emblematic agreement

salah satunya akhirnya berhasil menandatangani perjanjian penting

to phase out coal-fired power plants --

penghentian pembangkit listrik batu bara secara bertahap --

many people feel that this wasn't done fast enough

banyak orang merasa ini tak diselesaikan dengan cepat

and want this action to be brought faster.

dan menginginkan tindakan yang lebih cepat.

WPR: And it sounds like having people be the voice and the engine

WPR: Sepertinya menjadikan masyarakat sebagai suara dan motor

behind making that happen

untuk mewujudkan aksi selalu menjadi bagian dari

has really been part of this historical thread

rangkaian sejarah aksi iklim di Chili

with climate action in Chile

and seems like it would really lead things moving into the future.

dan sangat berperan mendorong terwujudnya sesuatu di masa depan.

MM: No, definitely, and we will continue. Yes, go ahead. Sorry.

MM: Tidak, tentu saja, kita lanjutkan. Ya, silakan. Maaf.

WPR: Go ahead. Please go ahead. We have a little bit of a delay.

WPR: Silakan. Kami sedikit tertunda.

MM: Going forward, we're going to be ... Starting out, we are doing well,

MM: Selanjutnya, kami akan menjadi.. Di awal, kami melakukannya dengan baik,

but I think we need to double down on our commitments.

tetapi saya pikir kami butuh menggandakan komitmen.

So even though we have ministries involved,

Meskipun saat ini kementerian terlibat,

we have civil society involved,

masyarakat sipil turun tangan,

we need to bring in the mainstream industry.

kami juga harus merangkul industri utama.

I think, for example, the mining sector has a great opportunity

Sektor pertambangan, misalnya, memiliki kesempatan besar

to be the solution for the environmental issues,

untuk menjadi solusi dari isu lingkungan hidup,

because we provide the copper, the cobalt, the lithium

karena kita menyediakan tembaga, kobalt, litium

that are required for solar PV panels, for battery storage.

yang dibutuhkan untuk panel surya, untuk penyimpanan baterai.

But we need to do this in a clean manner.

Namun harus dilakukan secara transparan.

I think that's the biggest challenge we're going to have

Saya pikir itu tantangan terbesar

dalam 20 tahun kedepan.

in the next 20 years ahead.

WPR: And sort of pivoting to the pandemic

WPR: Berbicara tentang pandemi dan apa yang terjadi saat ini,

and to thinking about what's going on right now,

the entire world has obviously been devastated by this crisis.

seluruh dunia jelas sedang hancur karena krisis.

What have been some of the unique challenges that Chile has faced

Apa saja tantangan unik yang dihadapi Chili

during this pandemic?

selama pandemi ini?

MM: Well, definitely, as anybody,

MM: Seperti semua orang, kami selalu berjuang

we are always struggling within

taking actions today to prevent a deeper impact in the future.

dalam mengambil tindakan saat ini untuk mencegah dampak lebih buruk di masa depan.

And we started off pretty well.

Dan yang kami lakukan di awal sangat baik.

We shut off schools.

Kami menutup sekolah.

We shut off different cities and had a quarantine.

Kami menutup kota dan melakukan karantina.

But we gave the wrong signals to people

Namun kami memberi sinyal yang salah ke masyarakat

and we didn't have a consistent effort,

dan tidak ada upaya yang konsisten,

and this has brought us to have the highest infection rates per capita

dan ini berakibat pada tingkat infeksi tertinggi per kapita di dunia saat ini.

in the world these days.

So this goes to show that -- the same parallels with climate change.

Kejadian ini menunjukkan -- kesamaan dengan perubahan iklim.

We need to take action now to prevent deeper impact later.

Kita perlu ambil aksi sekarang untuk mencegah dampak lebih buruk.

And I think we need to take the lesson of this

Kami perlu belajar dari pengalaman ini untuk terus berupaya,

to continue with an effort,

because one thing is to announce an ambitious NDC.

salah satunya dengan mengumumkan NDC yang ambisius.

Another thing is to invest and do the regulations that you require

Upaya lainnya yaitu investasi dan menyediakan regulasi yang diperlukan

to turn this into reality.

untuk mewujudkan itu semua.

But there are some things that are interesting.

Namun ada beberapa hal yang menarik.

The pollution in Santiago,

Pencemaran di Santiago,

which is one of the most polluted capitals historically in Latin America,

yang dalam sejarah merupakan ibukota paling tercemar di Amerika Latin,

has dropped substantially.

telah menurun signifikan.

The car-related emissions are down almost 80 to 90 percent,

Emisi kendaraan bermotor menurun hampir 80-90 persen,

which is pretty substantive.

sangat signifikan.

And we look at the example of what's going on.

Kita lihat beberapa contoh yang sedang terjadi saat ini.

Harvard University showed a study

Universitas Harvard menunjukkan studi

in which they showed higher mortality rates for more polluted cities.

di mana kota berpolusi tinggi memiliki tingkat kematian lebih tinggi.

And this is also the case in Chile.

Ini juga terjadi di Chili.

For every microgram of pollution, PM2.5, there is an increase of the fatality rate

Untuk setiap mikrogram polusi, PM2.5, terdapat peningkatan tingkat kematian

of nine percent.

sebesar 9 persen.

But the thing is, we could also look back at what we've achieved up to now.

Namun kita perlu lihat kembali apa yang sudah dicapai hingga kini.

Had we not taken measures to clean the air,

Jika langkah pembersihan udara belum dilakukan,

as we've done in Chile these last 20 years,

seperti yang sudah dilakukan di Chili dalam 20 tahun terakhir,

we would be talking about five times more people would have died from COVID.

orang yang meninggal karena COVID bisa jadi lima kali lebih banyak.

We have around 800 people that have died due to COVID directly,

Ada sekitar 800 orang meninggal akibat COVID,

but this would have been much higher had we not taken action.

tapi angka ini akan lebih tinggi jika dulu tidak ada langkah-langkah tersebut.

And in fact, due to the lower pollution,

Faktanya, dengan tingkat polusi yang rendah,

if we estimate and predict this to the rest of the year,

jika diperkirakan dan diprediksi hingga akhir tahun,

dengan mengurangi polusi kita dapat menyelamatkan jiwa sama banyaknya

we will have saved as many lives reducing the pollution

as we have lost in COVID,

dengan yang hilang karena COVID,

showing that there's a pandemic that we also need to address,

menunjukkan ada pandemi lain yang juga harus diperhatikan,

which is the crisis on air pollution that suffocates many cities in the world.

yaitu krisis pencemaran udara yang mencekik banyak kota di dunia.

WPR: And it seems like that's probably something that we're seeing

WPR: Sepertinya itu hal yang mungkin kita sedang perhatikan

in other areas around the world.

di area lain di seluruh dunia.

As you're suggesting, air pollution is a problem everywhere.

Seperti yang Anda katakan, polusi udara adalah masalah di mana pun.

And I'm curious also

Saya juga penasaran tentang bagaimana tantangan yang Anda sebutkan sebelumnya

how these challenges that you've mentioned, and maybe others,

might hinder or help

dapat menghalangi atau membantu

some of this progress that you're hoping to make

beberapa kemajuan yang diharapkan

towards climate action.

dalam aksi iklim.

How do you see this factoring in to some of the decisions

Bagaimana ini mempengaruhi keputusan

that might be made going forward in Chile and beyond?

di Chili dan sekitarnya di masa yang akan datang?

MM: OK, so we have a higher fatality rate and more polluted cities,

MM: OK, kami punya tingkat kematian dan kota berpolusi yang tinggi,

and we have a climate action to carry out.

dan aksi iklim untuk dilaksanakan.

This is going to be a decisive decade,

Ini akan menjadi dekade yang menentukan,

in which we need to lay the groundwork for our lower-emissions strategies.

di mana kami perlu meletakkan dasar untuk strategi emisi lebih rendah.

So whatever we do today cannot lock us in to an incompatible climate future.

Apapun itu, kami tak boleh terjebak dalam masa depan iklim yang tak kompatibel.

We need to lay the groundwork for this low-emissions transition.

Kami perlu meletakkan dasar untuk transisi ke emisi rendah.

So therefore, our green recovery efforts need to be done,

Karena itu, upaya pemulihan ramah lingkungan harus dilakukan,

as Kristalina [Georgieva] spoke last week,

seperti kata Kristalina [Georgieva] minggu lalu,

has to be related to a green recovery that creates jobs immediately,

pemulihan yang dapat segera menciptakan lapangan kerja,

that addresses the poverty issues that we have on energy

yang memperhatikan isu kemiskinan yang terjadi di sektor energi

today in southern Chile,

hari ini di selatan Chili,

and we need to use this for expanding renewable energy

dan kami perlu ini untuk pengembangan energi terbarukan

and expanding the successful efforts that we've done on electromobility.

dan memperluas kesuksesan kami yang telah terbukti pada kendaraan listrik.

Today, we have the largest fleet of electric buses outside of China,

Saat ini kami memiliki armada bus bertenaga listrik terbesar selain China,

but we could actually make this go even bigger,

tetapi kami dapat menjadikan ini lebih besar lagi,

because we've seen that the reductions in cost have been almost 70 percent

karena kami sudah melihat bahwa pengeluaran berkurang hingga 70 persen

in comparison to diesel buses.

dibandingkan bus berbahan bakar solar.

So we should use this opportunity to expand.

Kami harus menggunakan kesempatan ini untuk berkembang.

And multiple stakeholders are working.

Banyak pemangku kepentingan sedang melakukannya.

We're working together to call on the government

Kami bekerja sama meminta pemerintah

to do a green recovery,

melakukan pemulihan ramah lingkungan,

to use the green bonds that we've already issued

memakai dana obligasi ramah lingkungan yang sudahdimiliki,

and under which we've gotten really low rates for interest rates,

yang suku bunganya sangat rendah,

to do and fund cleaning the air,

untuk melaksanakan dan membiayai pembersihan udara,

cleaning the transportation

transportasi bebas polusi,

and laying the groundwork for a cleaner tomorrow in the mining sector,

dan menetapkan prinsip ramah lingkungan pada sektor pertambangan

which is our biggest challenge going forward.

yang merupakan tantangan terbesar kami di masa depan.

WPR: And then as far as the way that you think about

WPR: Sejauh yang Anda pikirkan

and conceptualize climate action,

dan pembuatan konsep aksi iklim,

have you personally had any changes to your thinking,

pernahkah Anda berubah pikiran,

just as a result of what you're seeing through this pandemic?

karena apa yang Anda lihat saat pandemi ini?

MM: Yeah, I think we start looking around,

MM: Ya, saya pikir kita mulai melihat ke sekitar,

everybody had to struggle and find that we could do much more with less,

setiap orang berjuang, dan kita bisa berbuat banyak tanpa harus berlebihan,

and keeping a full economy

dan menjaga ekonomi

that requires you to buy an extra t-shirt that you don't need,

yang membuat Anda harus membeli kaus ekstra yang tak dibutuhkan,

the fact that we're using three times more clothes

fakta bahwa kita menggunakan pakaian tiga kali lebih banyak

than we were maybe 20 years ago

daripada 20 tahun yang lalu

shows that we are blowing up an economy that requires us

menunjukkan kita sedang memperbesar ekonomi yang membuat kita

to destroy the environment, in a way,

menghancurkan lingkungan,

to continue forward.

untuk terus maju.

And the food system is going to be probably our biggest challenge,

Sistem pangan mungkin jadi tantangan terbesar kita,

and even though I've been working with electric buses and electromobility

dan meski kita sedang mengupayakan bus dan kendaraan listrik

and just the more conventional mitigation,

dan beberapa mitigasi lingkungan konvensional lainnya,

I think our biggest cultural challenge

saya rasa tantangan budaya terbesar

will be to talk about how our food decisions

adalah tentang bagaimana keputusan pangan kita

impact the way that we will have a future.

mempengaruhi masa depan.

"Nature" just put out a report

"Nature" baru saja mengeluarkan laporan

that showed something that when we were in the government, we had talked about.

yang menunjukkan sesuatu yang telah didiskusikan saat saya masih menjabat.

When Chile was good in soccer,

Ketika Chili berprestasi di sepak bola,

we started going deeper into the wintertime contests,

kami mulai fokus ke pertandingan musim dingin,

and we started winning games.

dan mulai menang.

But to win those games, we started doing a lot of barbecues,

Namun kemenangan itu dirayakan dengan banyak acara barbekyu,

and the paper that came out showed something that,

lalu laporan itu terbit dan menunjukkan bahwa

when we explained this to people,

saat kami menjelaskan hal ini pada masyarakat,

that you guys are messing up the air with barbecues,

di mana acara barbekyu mencemari udara,

people thought we were crazy.

kami dianggap gila.

Well, the "Nature" report now shows that we actually fouled the air

Laporan "Nature" sekarang menunjukkan bahwa kita memang mencemari udara,

and destroyed the air, annihilated the air,

menghancurkan, memusnahkannya,

because we wanted to celebrate the soccer.

karena kita ingin merayakan sepak bola.

And we set this up to people, and people thought we were crazy.

Kami menyampaikan itu ke masyarakat, tetapi dianggap gila.

Now people acknowledge the fact that the basic things that you could do,

Sekarang orang mengakui bahwa hal paling dasar yang bisa dilakukan,

such as the way that you choose how to cook,

seperti cara memasak,

could actually impact your air.

dapat mempengaruhi udara.

So I think going forward these cultural challenges that we need to do,

Jadi ke depannya saya rasa tantangan budaya seperti ini,

we need to tackle them head-on.

perlu ditangani terlebih dulu.

We should need to show the evidence.

Kita harus menunjukkan bukti.

Otherwise, we're just going to be ignoring problems

Jika tidak, kita hanya membiarkan masalah

and letting them perpetuate for the future.

dan membiarkannya terus ada hingga masa depan.

WPR: And, you know, for nations who have not really prioritized climate

WPR: Untuk negara-negara yang tak terlalu memprioritaskan iklim

in the same way that Chile has,

sebagaimana yang dilakukan Chili,

are there lessons that you think can be learned

apakah ada pelajaran yang bisa diambil

from some of the choices that Chile has made in recent years

dari pilihan yang dibuat Chili beberapa tahun belakangan

that other nations can apply,

yang bisa diterapkan negara lain,

and how could folks in other countries implement some of these strategies

dan bagaimana negara lain bisa mengimplementasikan strategi ini

that you implemented in Chile?

seperti yang Anda lakukan di Chili?

MM: So, many people in the US and across the world

MM: Banyak orang di AS dan seluruh dunia

know about the Chilean sea bass.

tahu tentang kakap putih Chili.

The Chilean sea bass was overfished and almost collapsed.

Kakap putih Chili ditangkap berlebihan dan nyaris punah.

One of the things that we did under the support from "National Geographic"

Salah satu yang kita lakukan dengan dukungan dari "National Geographic"

and with the leadership of President Bachelet

di bawah kepemimpinan Presiden Bachelet

was to expand marine protection,

yaitu memperluas perlindungan laut,

from four percent of our oceans to 43 percent within one government,

dari 4 ke 43 persen dalam satu periode pemerintahan,

which is the largest leap.

yang merupakan langkah terbesar.

There's only comparison to the US during Obama in terms of protection.

Ini hanya perbandingan dengan AS di masa Obama dalam hal proteksi.

And this is because we want this population also to recover.

Karena kami ingin populasi ikan ini pulih.

You know, when you let the park stop fishing,

Saat penangkapan ikan dihentikan,

the overflow from the fishing

luapannya akan meningkatkan biomassa sebanyak enam kali lipat.

will actually increase the biomass sixfold.

So I think one of the efforts that we need to do

Saya pikir satu hal yang perlu dilakukan

as we talk about the biodiversity convention

saat bicara tentang konvensi biodiversitas

that's going to happen this next year

yang akan terjadi tahun depan

is that we need to change our relationship to the environment.

adalah dengan mengubah hubungan kita dengan lingkungan.

We need to protect and conserve our ecosystems,

Kita perlu melindungi dan melestarikan ekosistem,

so they provide the services that they do today.

supaya mereka dapat menyediakan sumber daya seperti saat ini.

Today, 96 percent of all mammals, land mammals,

Saat ini, 96 persen mamalia darat,

are humans or stuff humans eat.

adalah manusia atau bahan makanan manusia.

Only four percent of land mammals are wild.

Hanya 4 persen mamalia darat yang liar.

When I heard that data, from "National Geographic,"

Ketika kami pertama mendengar itu dari "National Geographic,"

for the first time,

I couldn't believe it.

Saya tidak bisa percaya.

We've changed our relationship with the planet,

Kita telah mengubah hubungan kita dengan bumi,

and we're suffering these decisions

dan menderita karena keputusan tersebut

because we see zoonotic diseases -- not just coronavirus --

karena kita melihat penyakit zoonosis -- tak hanya virus corona --

spread time after time.

semakin banyak menyebar.

WPR: And we have Bruno here -- hi, Bruno -- with a question from the community.

WPR: Sudah ada Bruno disini dengan pertanyaan dari masyarakat.

Bruno Giussani: Hi. Absolutely. Hello, Marcelo.

Bruno Giussani: Hai. Tentu saja. Halo, Marcelo.

This is a question from Melissa Mahoney.

Ini adalah pertanyaan dari Melissa Mahoney.

She asks if you can expand on what economic benefits

Dia bertanya apakah Anda bisa mengembangkan manfaat ekonomi

of net-zero emissions are.

dari emisi bersih nol.

And especially, could those benefits be the same for Chile

Terutama apakah manfaat itu berlaku sama untuk Chili

and for other countries?

dan negara lain?

MM: Good.

MM: Baik.

For example, when I worked in the World Bank,

Contohnya, ketika saya bekerja di World Bank,

we supported Chile to look into the macroeconomic impacts

kami mendukung Chili untuk melihat dampak makro ekonomi

of the net-zero target.

dari target emisi bersih nol.

And it was shown that Chile will grow 4.4 percent more.

Terlihat bahwa Chili akan tumbuh sebesar 4,4 persen.

So we turned the risk of climate change,

Jadi kami membalikkan risiko pergantian iklim,

and we turned it into an opportunity of expanded growth.

dan mengubahnya menjadi kesempatan untuk memperluas pertumbuhan.

This manifests in lower transportation costs,

Ini terwujud dalam biaya transportasi yang lebih rendah,

lower energy costs,

biaya energi rendah,

and this makes the economy more competitive.

dan ekonomi yang lebih kompetitif.

The costs of reaching the net-zero target

Biaya untuk mencapai target emisi bersih nol

are much lower than the benefits that we will have to reap.

lebih rendah dari keuntungan yang akan kami dapatkan.

And we're not even talking about cleaner air benefits,

Kita bahkan tidak bicara tentang manfaat udara bersih,

we're talking about direct economic benefits

kita bicara manfaat ekonomi langsung

of having increased investments,

dengan mendapat investasi lebih,

which is something that every country will require in these years

di mana sesuatu yang setiap negara akan butuhkan di tahun-tahun ini

to recover from the COVID crisis,

untuk pulih dari krisis COVID,

and lower energy costs.

dan biaya energi rendah.

So that's how it manifests,

Jadi itulah kenyataannya,

and this is a consensus today

dan saat ini sudah menjadi konsensus

that we need to have more renewable energy

bahwa kita butuh lebih banyak energi terbarukan

because this is the way that we've had cleaner air and lower energy costs.

karena itulah cara memperoleh udara bersih dengan biaya energi yang rendah.

BG: There is another question from someone in the audience, asking,

BG: Pemirsa lain menanyakan,

"Countries across Latin America have very different attitudes on climate.

"Negara-negara Amerika Latin memiliki perbedaan sikap terhadap iklim.

Can you comment on that?"

Bagaimana komentar Anda?"

MM: So Pew Research Center has been putting out reports

MM: Pusat Penelitian Pew menerbitkan laporan

regarding what is the main external threat that you have.

tentang ancaman eksternal apa yang dihadapi tiap negara.

And in Europe, in the US,

Di Eropa, Amerika,

the biggest threat was either China or ISIS

ancaman terbesarnya adalah China atau ISIS

or some external bellicose threat.

atau beberapa ancaman perang eksternal.

In Latin America and Africa, it's climate change, number one,

Di Amerika Latin dan Afrika, ancaman terbesar pertama adalah perubahan iklim,

and Chile is one of the highest, with 86 percent of Chileans

Chili adalah salah satu yang tertinggi, dengan 86 persen rakyat Chili

saying that climate change is the greatest external threat.

berkata perubahan iklim adalah ancaman terbesar.

And this is also very high across the region.

Ini juga sangat tinggi di wilayah lain.

We could have populist governments coming in, changing their priorities,

Pemerintahan baru yang populis bisa saja mengubah prioritas,

but the reality is, people are concerned,

tapi realitanya, orang prihatin,

because they see the threat of climate change every day,

karena mereka lihat ancaman perubahan iklim setiap hari,

and regardless of whether the national government believes in it,

dan terlepas apakah pemerintah nasional memercayainya,

climate change is real

perubahan iklim itu nyata

and is causing impacts and causing poverty in the region.

dan berdampak menyebabkan kemiskinan di berbagai wilayah.

BG: Thank you, Marcelo. Back to you, Whitney.

BG: Terima kasih, Marcelo. Kembali ke Whitney.

WPR: Thank you. Thank you, Bruno.

WPR: Terima kasih, Bruno.

And Marcelo, just one last question before we actually say goodbye,

Dan Marcelo, pertanyaan terakhir sebelum kita akhiri,

which is just, knowing that you were involved in the negotiations

mengetahui bahwa Anda terlibat dalam negosiasi Perjanjian Paris,

for the Paris Agreement,

are there things that you take from that experience

apakah ada yang Anda dapat dari pengalaman tersebut

that you can apply to this moment

yang bisa diaplikasikan saat ini

as we think about emerging from this crisis

mengenai bangkit dari krisis

and coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic?

dan keluar dari pandemi COVID-19?

MM: Yes,

MM: Baik,

that there will always be a populist that will be opposing climate action,

akan selalu ada politisi populis yang menentang aksi iklim,

and the way to get at this is to make the economic case,

dan cara mengatasinya adalah dengan membuat dasar ekonomi,

so regardless of what happens,

sehingga terlepas yang terjadi,

there will be an economic case for spending on renewable energy.

akan ada dasar ekonomi untuk pembelanjaan energi terbarukan.

The US grew its renewable energy investments around 40 percent last year.

AS meningkatkan investasi energi terbarukan sekitar 40 persen tahun lalu.

In Brazil, it grew almost 10 percent.

Di Brazil, tumbuh hampir 10 persen.

And so therefore, if we are able to align the economic goals

Karena itu, jika kita bisa menyelaraskan tujuan ekonomi

with climate goals,

dengan tujuan iklim,

you will be able to make this go forward.

Anda bisa melakukan ini.

There's the Network for Greening the Financial System

Terdapat Jaringan untuk Penghijauan Sistem Keuangan

that puts together central bankers.

yang menyatukan bank-bank sentral.

The World Bank launched a coalition of finance ministers for climate action.

World Bank juga meluncurkan koalisi menteri keuangan untuk aksi iklim.

These are great efforts

Ini semua adalah usaha besar

that will allow us to have the financial system support climate action

yang memungkinkan kita untuk memiliki sistem keuangan yang mendukung aksi iklim

because there's an economic benefit,

karena ada keuntungan ekonomi,

because it's important for you, for your fiduciary responsibilities,

karena penting bagi tanggung jawab pegadaian Anda

to disclose the risks you have,

memberitahukan risiko yang ada,

both transitionally and physically.

baik secara transisi maupun fisik.

And if we are able to do this,

Jika kita bisa lakukan ini,

regardless of what negotiations happen,

terlepas negosiasi yang terjadi,

because there will always be problems with the consensus,

karena akan selalu ada masalah dengan konsensus,

you will continue to have a resilient approach

kita dapat terus memiliki pendekatan yang tangguh

because climate action will continue

karena aksi iklim akan berlanjut

because you can have the economic system support this.

karena Anda akan memiliki sistem ekonomi yang mendukungnya.

WPR: That's really great.

WPR: Sangat luar biasa.

Thank you so much, Marcelo, for being with us

Terima kasih banyak, Marcelo,

telah bersama kami untuk berbagi pandangan dan wawasan.

to share your perspective and your insight.

It's really great to sort of zoom in on some of the things happening in Chile

Luar biasa sekali dapat melihat lebih dekat apa yang terjadi di Chili

and how that might apply to all of us all over the world.

dan bagaimana itu bisa diaplikasikan di seluruh dunia.

Thank you for joining us today.

Terima kasih telah bergabung hari ini.

MM: Thanks.