The US is addicted to incarceration. Here's how to break the cycle | Robin Steinberg

69,033 views ใƒป 2020-06-01

TED


ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุฃุฏู†ุงู‡ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ.

00:00
Manoush Zomorodi: So, Robin Steinberg,
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ุงู„ู…ุชุฑุฌู…: Shimaa Nabil ุงู„ู…ุฏู‚ู‘ู‚: Nawfal Aljabali
ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบุŒ
00:02
thank you so much for being my first official guest
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ุดูƒุฑุงู‹ ุฌุฒูŠู„ุงู‹ ู„ูƒูˆู†ูƒ ุฃูˆู„ ุถูŠูุฉ ุฑุณู…ูŠุฉ
00:05
as the new host of TED Radio Hour.
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ูƒุถูŠูุฉ ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ ู„ู€ TED Radio Hour.
00:08
I'm pretty psyched about that.
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ุฃู†ุง ู…ุชุญู…ุณุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹.
00:09
Robin Steinberg: I'm delighted.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ู„ูŠ ุงู„ุดุฑู.
00:11
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
00:12
MZ: So OK, I want to start with the Bail Project,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ู†ุจุฏุฃ ุจู…ุดุฑูˆุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ
00:15
how it came to be, how you came up with the idea.
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ูƒูŠู ุฃุตุจุญ ู…ุนุฑูˆูุงู‹ุŒ ูƒูŠู ุฃุชูŠุช ุจุงู„ููƒุฑุฉุŸ
00:18
The story goes
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ุชุนูˆุฏ ุงู„ู‚ุตุฉ
00:19
that 10 years ago, you and your husband were eating Chinese takeout food
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ู…ู†ุฐ 10 ุณู†ูˆุงุชุŒ ูƒู†ุช ูˆุฒูˆุฌูƒ ุชุชู†ุงูˆู„ุงู† ุงู„ุทุนุงู… ุงู„ุตูŠู†ูŠ
00:23
when you came up with the concept.
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชูˆุตู„ุชู…ุง ู„ู„ููƒุฑุฉ.
00:25
You'd been a public defender for over 30 years,
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ูƒู†ุช ู…ุญุงู…ูŠุฉ ุฏูุงุน ุนุงู… ู„ุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† 30 ุณู†ุฉุŒ
00:28
but there was this moment where you decided something had to change.
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ู„ูƒู†ู‡ุง ูƒุงู†ุช ุงู„ู„ุญุธุฉ ุญูŠุซ ู‚ุฑุฑุชู ุฃู† ุดูŠุฆุงู‹ ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠุชุบูŠุฑ.
00:33
RS: So we had both spent decades
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ู‚ุถูŠู†ุง ุณูˆูŠุงู‹ ุนู‚ูˆุฏุงู‹
00:35
in the trenches of the criminal legal system as public defenders,
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ููŠ ุฃุฒู‚ุฉ ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ ูƒู…ุญุงู…ูŠูŠู† ุฏูุงุน ุนุงู…ุŒ
00:38
fighting for each and every client the best we could,
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ู†ุฏุงูุน ุนู† ูƒู„ ู…ูˆูƒู„ ุจุฃูุถู„ ู…ุง ู†ุณุชุทูŠุนุŒ
00:41
defending people's humanity and their dignity
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ู†ุฏุงูุน ุนู† ูƒุฑุงู…ุฉ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ูˆุฅู†ุณุงู†ูŠุชู‡ู…
00:43
and fighting for their freedom.
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ูˆู†ุฏุงูุน ุนู† ุญุฑูŠุชู‡ู….
00:45
And no matter how good we were as lawyers,
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ูˆู…ู‡ู…ุง ูƒุงู† ุฌูˆุฏุฉ ุนู…ู„ู†ุง ูƒู…ุญุงู…ูŠูŠู†ุŒ
00:48
and I like to think we were really good,
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ูˆุฃุญุจ ุฃู† ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู†ู†ุง ูƒู†ุง ุฌูŠุฏูŠู† ุจุงู„ูุนู„ุŒ
00:50
and how forceful we fought on behalf of a client,
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ูˆูƒู… ู‚ุงุชู„ู†ุง ุฏูุงุนุงู‹ ุนู† ู…ูˆูƒู„ุŒ
00:53
sometimes it all came down to a few hundred dollars.
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ุฃุญูŠุงู†ุงู‹ ู„ุง ูŠู†ุฌุญ ุฐู„ูƒ ุจุณุจุจ ุจุถุน ุฏูˆู„ุงุฑุงุช.
00:57
And that was whether or not your client could pay bail
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ูˆูŠุญุฏุซ ุฐู„ูƒ ุณูˆุงุก ูƒุงู† ู…ูˆูƒู„ูƒ ูŠุณุชุทูŠุน ุฏูุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุฃูˆ ู„ุง
01:00
and fight her case from freedom
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ูˆู…ุญุงุฑุจุฉ ู‚ุถูŠุชู‡ุง ู…ู† ุงู„ุญุฑูŠุฉ
01:02
or whether she was going to be locked in jail on Rikers Island
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ุฃูˆ ุณูˆุงุก ุณุชู‚ุถูŠ ุนู‚ูˆุจุชู‡ุง ููŠ ุณุฌู† ููŠ ุฌุฒูŠุฑุฉ ุฑูŠูƒุฑุฒ
01:05
and desperate would wind up pleading guilty,
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ูˆูŠู†ุชู‡ูŠ ุจู‡ุง ุงู„ุญุงู„ ุจุงู„ุฅู‚ุฑุงุฑ ุจุงู„ุฐู†ุจุŒ
01:07
whether she did it or not.
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ุณูˆุงุก ูุนู„ุช ุฐู„ูƒ ุฃู… ู„ุง.
01:09
And that just enraged us.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุฃุซุงุฑ ุบุถุจู†ุง.
01:12
And sometimes, you know,
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ูˆุฃุญูŠุงู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุฃุชุนุฑููŠู†ุŒ
01:14
the answers are simple and they're right in front of you.
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ุงู„ุฅุฌุงุจุงุช ุชูƒูˆู† ุจุณูŠุทุฉ ูˆุฃู…ุงู…ูƒ ู…ุจุงุดุฑุฉ.
01:16
And so we thought,
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ูˆู„ุฐุง ููƒุฑู†ุงุŒ
01:18
"Well, what if we just paid clients' bail?"
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"ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ู…ุงุฐุง ุฅุฐุง ูู‚ุท ุฏูุนู†ุง ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ูˆูƒู„ุŸ"
01:20
And that's where the idea of creating a revolving bail fund --
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ูˆู‡ู†ุง ุฌุงุกุช ููƒุฑุฉ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏ -
01:23
because bail comes back at the end of a case,
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ู„ุฃู† ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุชุฑุฌุน ู„ู„ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ููŠ ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ู‚ุถูŠุฉุŒ
01:25
if we could raise money and put it in a fund,
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ุฅุฐุง ุชู…ูƒู†ุง ู…ู† ุฒูŠุงุฏุฉ ุงู„ู…ุงู„ ูˆูˆุถุนู‡ ููŠ ุงู„ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ุŒ
01:27
and have a revolving fund,
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ูˆูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ุชู…ูˆูŠู„ ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏุŒ
01:29
we could just pay bail for our clients.
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ู†ุณุชุทูŠุน ุฏูุน ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู…ูˆูƒู„ูŠู†ุง.
01:31
Now I have to say, that was back in 2005.
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ุงู„ุขู† ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุฃุฎุจุฑูƒุŒ ูƒุงู† ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ 2005.
01:35
People werenโ€™t talking about criminal justice reform
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ูŠุชุญุฏุซูˆู† ุนู† ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ
01:38
the way they are now,
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ู…ุซู„ ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
01:39
there wasn't a lot of conversation about bail reform,
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ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ู…ุญุงุฏุซุงุช ูƒุซูŠุฑุฉ ุนู† ุชุนุฏูŠู„ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ
01:41
and quite honestly, we spent two years knocking on people's door.
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ูˆุจุฃู…ุงู†ุฉ ุดุฏูŠุฏุฉุŒ ู‚ุถูŠู†ุง ุนุงู…ูŠู† ู†ู‚ุฑุน ุฃุจูˆุงุจ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ.
01:44
Nobody answered.
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ู„ู… ูŠุฌุจ ุฃุญุฏ.
01:46
Until one day, one man and his family, Jason Flom and his family,
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ุญุชู‰ ุฐุงุช ูŠูˆู…ุŒ ุฌูŠุณูˆู† ูู„ูˆู… ูˆุนุงุฆู„ุชู‡ุŒ
01:50
decided to take a chance on us and gave us a grant in 2007.
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ู‚ุฑุฑูˆุง ุงุบุชู†ุงู… ุงู„ูุฑุตุฉ ูˆู‚ุฏู…ูˆุง ู„ู†ุง ู…ู†ุญุฉ ููŠ 2007.
01:53
And we began to test the revolving bail fund model.
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ูˆุจุฏุฃู†ุง ุงุฎุชุจุงุฑ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏ.
01:58
And to see what would happen.
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ูˆู†ุฑู‰ ู…ุง ุณูŠุญุฏุซ.
01:59
MZ: Can you clarify, though,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู‡ู„ ุชูˆุถุญูŠู†ุŒ
02:01
like, why it is so important for someone not to be in jail
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ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ู‡ู… ุฌุฏุงู‹ ู„ุดุฎุต ุฃู„ุง ูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ุณุฌูˆู†ุงู‹
02:05
while they await trial?
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ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ูŠู†ุชุธุฑ ุงู„ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุฉุŸ
02:07
You've explained this in the past and it really blew my mind,
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ู‚ู…ุชู ุจุดุฑุญ ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุงุถูŠ ูˆุญู‚ุงู‹ ุฐูู‡ู„ุชุŒ
02:10
because I had no idea what could happen in those days or weeks
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ู„ุฃู†ู†ูŠ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ู„ุฏูŠ ููƒุฑุฉ ุนู† ู…ุง ูŠู…ูƒู† ุญุฏูˆุซู‡ ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃูŠุงู… ูˆุงู„ุฃุณุงุจูŠุน
02:13
before someone actually has to plead their case.
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ู‚ุจู„ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุดุฎุต ู…ุง ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน ูŠุฏุงูุน ุนู† ู‚ุถูŠุชู‡.
02:16
RS: Sure. So, being held in jail even for a few days
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ. ูƒูˆู†ูƒ ู…ุณุฌูˆู†ุงู‹ ุญุชู‰ ู„ุฃูŠุงู… ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุฉ
02:19
can change the trajectory of your life.
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ูŠุบูŠุฑ ู…ุณุงุฑ ุญูŠุงุชูƒ.
02:21
It is not only the place where you can be victimized, sexually,
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ุฅู†ู‡ ู„ูŠุณ ุงู„ู…ูƒุงู† ูู‚ุท ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุถุญูŠุฉุŒ ุฌู†ุณูŠุงู‹ุŒ
02:25
you can be exposed to violence,
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ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชุชุนุฑุถ ู„ู„ุนู†ูุŒ
02:27
you'll be traumatized in all sorts of ways while you're in the jail,
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ุณุชุชุนุฑุถ ู„ุตุฏู…ุงุช ุจูƒู„ ุงู„ุฃู†ูˆุงุน ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชูƒูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุณุฌู†ุŒ
02:31
and that's even the first few days or a week
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุญุชู‰ ุงู„ุฃูŠุงู… ุงู„ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุฃุณุงุจูŠุน
02:33
is when most jail deaths actually, whether they're suicides or homicides,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุญุฏุซ ููŠู‡ุง ู…ุนุธู… ุงู„ูˆููŠุงุชุŒ ุณูˆุงุก ุงู†ุชุญุงุฑ ุฃูˆ ุฌุฑุงุฆู… ู‚ุชู„ุŒ
02:36
actually happen.
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ุชุญุฏุซ ูุนู„ุงู‹.
02:38
But while you're sitting in jail,
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ู„ูƒู† ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชูƒูˆู† ููŠ ุงู„ุณุฌู†ุŒ
02:39
and understand, folks sitting in jail pretrial
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ูˆุชูู‡ู…ุŒ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูŠุณุฌู†ูˆู† ู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุฉ
02:42
have not been convicted of a crime.
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ู„ู… ุชุชู… ุฅุฏุงู†ุชู‡ู… ุจุงุฑุชูƒุงุจ ุฌุฑูŠู…ุฉ.
02:44
They're there because they don't have enough money to pay bail.
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ูŠุณุฌู†ูˆุง ู„ุฃู† ู„ูŠุณ ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ู…ุงู„ ูƒุงู ู„ุฏูุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ.
02:47
And while that's happening, people's lives are falling apart outside.
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ูˆุจูŠู†ู…ุง ูŠุญุฏุซ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ุชูุฏู…ุฑ ุญูŠูˆุงุช ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ููŠ ุงู„ุฎุงุฑุฌ.
02:51
You're losing your job,
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ุชูู‚ุฏ ูˆุธูŠูุชูƒุŒ
02:52
you might be losing your home,
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ู…ู†ุฒู„ูƒุŒ
02:54
your children might be taken from you,
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ุฑุจู…ุง ูŠุชู… ุฃุฎุฐ ุฃุทูุงู„ูƒ ู…ู†ูƒุŒ
02:55
your immigration status might be jeopardized,
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ุฑุจู…ุง ูŠุชุนุฑุถ ูˆุถุนูƒ ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุจุงู„ุจู„ุฏ ู„ู„ุฎุทุฑุŒ
02:58
you might get thrown out of school.
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ุฑุจู…ุง ุชูุทุฑุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุฏุฑุณุฉ.
02:59
So it's the damage to you that's happening in our local jails,
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ู„ุฐุง ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุถุฑุฑ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุญุฏุซ ููŠ ุณุฌูˆู†ู†ุง ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠุฉุŒ
03:02
but it's also what's happening to you and your family
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ู„ูƒู† ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ู…ุง ูŠุญุฏุซ ู„ูƒ ูˆู„ุนุงุฆู„ุชูƒ
03:05
and your community that you've been removed from
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ูˆู…ุฌุชู…ุนูƒ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชุฎู„ู‰ ุนู†ูƒ
03:07
while you're waiting for your trial,
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ุจูŠู†ู…ุง ุชู†ุชุธุฑ ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุชูƒุŒ
03:09
which, by the way, can take days, weeks and no exaggeration, can take years.
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ุญูŠุซุŒ ุจุงู„ู…ู†ุงุณุจุฉุŒ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ูŠุณุชู…ุฑ ู„ุฃูŠุงู… ูˆุฃุณุงุจูŠุน ูˆุจุฏูˆู† ู…ุจุงู„ุบุฉุŒ ุณู†ูˆุงุช.
03:13
MZ: So you explained this sort of crazy limbo that people are in
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู„ุฐุง ุดุฑุญุช ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู†ูˆุน ู…ู† ุงู„ุชูŠู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฌู†ูˆู† ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุนูŠุด ููŠู‡ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ
03:17
from the TED stage in 2018,
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ู…ู† ู…ุณุฑุญ TED ููŠ 2018ุŒ
03:19
and I want to just play a quick clip from that talk that you gave,
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ูˆุฃุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ุฃุนุฑุถ ู…ู‚ุทุนุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุฃู„ู‚ูŠุชู‡ุงุŒ
03:23
which was incredibly moving.
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ูˆุงู„ุชูŠ ูƒุงู†ุช ู…ุคุซุฑุฉ ู„ู„ุบุงูŠุฉ.
03:24
Can we play that?
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ู‡ู„ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุนุฑุถ ุงู„ู…ู‚ุทุนุŸ
03:26
(Audio: Robin Steinberg TED2018) It's time to do something big.
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(ุตูˆุช: ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ TED2018) ุญุงู† ุงู„ูˆู‚ุช ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุดูŠุก ูƒุจูŠุฑ.
03:29
It's time to do something bold.
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ุดูŠุก ู‚ูˆูŠ.
03:30
It's time to do something ... maybe audacious?
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ุญุงู† ุงู„ูˆู‚ุช ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุดูŠุก... ุฑุจู…ุง ู…ุชู‡ูˆุฑุŸ
03:34
(Laughter)
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(ุถุญูƒ)
03:35
We want to take our proven revolving bail-fund model
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ู†ูˆุฏ ุฃู† ู†ุทุจู‚ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุซุจุช ูุงุนู„ูŠุชู‡
03:38
that we built in the Bronx
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุณุณู†ุงู‡ ููŠ ุจุฑูˆู†ูƒุณ
03:40
and spread it across America,
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ูˆู†ุดุฑู†ุงู‡ ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒุงุŒ
03:42
attacking the front-end of the legal system
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ู…ูˆุงุฌู‡ูŠู† ุงู„ูˆุงุฌู‡ุฉ ุงู„ุฃู…ุงู…ูŠุฉ ู„ู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠุŒ
03:44
before incarceration begins.
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ู‚ุจู„ ุฃู† ูŠุจุฏุฃ ุงู„ุญุจุณ.
03:46
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
03:48
MZ: The energy in the room when you gave your talk was palpable,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ูƒุงู† ุงู„ุญู…ุงุณ ู…ู„ู…ูˆุณุงู‹ ููŠ ุงู„ู‚ุงุนุฉ ุนู†ุฏ ุฅู„ู‚ุงุก ู…ุญุงุฏุซุชูƒุŒ
03:52
and it ended up getting you quite a bit of funding
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ูˆุงู†ุชู‡ู‰ ุจู‚ุฏุฑ ูƒุจูŠุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุชู…ูˆูŠู„
03:55
from the Audacious Project,
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ู…ู† Audacious ProjectุŒ
03:57
which is TED's initiative to get some of these big ideas support
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ูˆู‡ูŠ ู…ุจุงุฏุฑุฉ TED ู„ุญุตูˆู„ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฃููƒุงุฑ ุงู„ูƒุจูŠุฑุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฏุนู…
04:01
to make them actually happen.
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ู„ุชุทุจูŠู‚ู‡ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุฃุฑุถ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน.
04:03
Can you explain what has happened since you gave your talk?
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ู‡ู„ ุชุดุฑุญูŠู† ู…ุงุฐุง ุญุฏุซ ู…ู†ุฐ ุฅู„ู‚ุงุก ุงู„ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉุŸ
04:06
RS: Sure.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ.
04:07
So, the Audacious grant allowed us
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ุณู…ุญุช ู…ู†ุญุฉ Audacious ู„ู†ุง
04:09
to take our proven concept and to scale it.
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ุฃู† ู†ุฃุฎุฐ ุชุตูˆุฑู†ุง ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุฃุซุจุช ูุงุนู„ูŠุชู‡ ูˆู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจู†ุดุฑู‡.
04:12
And the idea is that we are scaling this model across the country.
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ูˆุงู„ููƒุฑุฉ ู‡ูŠ ุฃู†ู†ุง ู†ุชูˆุณุน ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ููŠ ุฌู…ูŠุน ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุจู„ุงุฏ.
04:16
We're currently in 18 different sites.
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ู†ุญู† ุญุงู„ูŠุงู‹ ููŠ 18 ู…ูˆู‚ุนุงู‹ ู…ุฎุชู„ูุงู‹.
04:19
And we are doing two things, right?
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ูˆู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจูุนู„ ุฃู…ุฑูŠู†ุŒ ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŸ
04:22
The Bail Project is designed both,
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ุตูู…ู… ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ
04:24
provide an immediate lifeline for folks that are stuck in jail cells
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ู„ุชูˆููŠุฑ ุดุฑูŠุงู† ุญูŠุงุฉ ุนุงุฌู„ ู„ู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุนุงู„ู‚ูŠู† ููŠ ุงู„ุณุฌู†
04:27
simply because of poverty,
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ุจุจุณุงุทุฉ ุจุณุจุจ ุงู„ูู‚ุฑุŒ
04:29
because they can't pay their bail,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ู… ู„ุง ูŠุณุชุทูŠุนูˆู† ุฏูุน ูƒูุงู„ุชู‡ู…ุŒ
04:31
and that's a response to the immediate direct emergency
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ูˆู‡ุฐู‡ ุงุณุชุฌุงุจุฉ ู„ู„ุทูˆุงุฑุฆ ุงู„ู…ุจุงุดุฑุฉ ุงู„ุนุงุฌู„ุฉ
04:35
and human rights crisis that we have in this country
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ูˆุฃุฒู…ุฉ ุญู‚ูˆู‚ ุงู„ุฅู†ุณุงู† ุงู„ุชูŠ ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ููŠ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุจู„ุฏ
04:37
around pretrial incarceration.
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ุญูˆู„ ุงู„ุญุจุณ ู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุฉ.
04:39
But the second thing we're trying to do is we're testing a model
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ูˆุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุงู„ุซุงู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ู†ุญุงูˆู„ ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุงุฎุชุจุงุฑ ุงู„ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ
04:42
that we call community release with voluntary supports.
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ู†ุณู…ูŠู‡ ุฅุทู„ุงู‚ ุณุฑุงุญ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน ุจุฏุนู… ุชุทูˆุนูŠ.
04:44
And what we're trying to prove is,
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ูˆู…ุง ู†ุญุงูˆู„ ุฅุซุจุงุชู‡ ู‡ูˆุŒ
04:46
A: you don't need cash bail,
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ู„ุง ุชุญุชุงุฌ ู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉุŒ
04:48
people will come back to court without cash bail.
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ูŠุนูˆุฏ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู„ู„ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ ุจุฏูˆู† ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ.
04:50
That myth has already been debunked and we know that.
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ุชู… ูุถุญ ุฒูŠู ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฎุฑุงูุฉ ูˆู†ุญู† ู†ุนู„ู… ุฐู„ูƒ.
04:52
But we're also trying to model
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ู„ูƒู†ู†ุง ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ู†ุฌุฑุจ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌุงู‹
04:54
you can actually release people back to their communities
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ุชุณุชุทูŠุน ุจูˆุงุณุทุชู‡ ุฅุทู„ุงู‚ ุณุฑุงุญ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ูˆุนูˆุฏุชู‡ู… ู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนู‡ู…
04:57
with effective court notifications.
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ู…ุน ุฅุดุนุงุฑุงุช ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ ูุนู‘ุงู„ุฉ.
04:58
Make sure they're connected to services they might need.
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ุงู„ุชุฃูƒุฏ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ูŠุญุธูˆู† ุจุฎุฏู…ุงุช ูŠุญุชุงุฌูˆู†ู‡ุง.
05:01
And people will come back to court while their cases are open,
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ูˆูŠุนูˆุฏ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ ุนู†ุฏ ูุชุญ ุงู„ู‚ุถูŠุฉุŒ
05:04
and until those cases close.
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ูˆุญุชู‰ ุชุบู„ู‚ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู‚ุถุงูŠุง.
05:06
It is in an effort to move policy forward,
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ู…ุญุงูˆู„ุฉ ู„ุชุญุฑูŠูƒ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณุฉ ู‚ุฏู…ุงู‹ุŒ
05:09
to ensure the systemic change happens,
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ู„ู„ุชุฃูƒุฏ ู…ู† ุญุฏูˆุซ ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ู†ุธุงู…ูŠุŒ
05:12
but here's our fear:
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ูˆู‡ู†ุง ู…ุฎุงูˆูู†ุง:
05:13
it's a race against time.
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ุฅู†ู‡ ุณุจุงู‚ ู…ุน ุงู„ูˆู‚ุช.
05:15
Because as this conversation picks up speed,
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ู„ุฃู†ู‡ ูƒู…ุง ุฃู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉ ุชุฒูŠุฏ ุณุฑุนุชู‡ุงุŒ
05:17
and as bail reform begins to take hold,
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ูˆู…ุน ุจุฏุก ุณุฑูŠุงู† ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ
05:19
some systems will move to new systems
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ุณุชู†ุชู‚ู„ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฃู†ุธู…ุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฃู†ุธู…ุฉ ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ
05:22
that we fear will recreate some of the same harms, right,
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ูˆู…ุง ู†ุฎุดุงู‡ ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุญุฏูˆุซ ู†ูุณ ุงู„ุฃุถุฑุงุฑุŒ
05:25
that the initial bail system [created].
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ูˆู„ู‡ุฐุง ุชู… ุฅู†ุดุงุก ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ูŠ.
05:27
Those are racial disparities,
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ููˆุงุฑู‚ ุงู„ุนุฑู‚ูŠุฉุŒ
05:30
economic inequality,
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ุงู„ููˆุงุฑู‚ ุงู„ุงู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุฉุŒ
05:31
and we can actually recreate that if we don't get this right.
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ูˆูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุจุงู„ูุนู„ ุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุฅู†ุดุงุก ุฐู„ูƒ ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ู†ุญุตู„ ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุญู‚.
05:35
And so we're in a race against time
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ูˆู„ู‡ุฐุง ู†ุญู† ู†ุณุงุจู‚ ุงู„ุฒู…ู†
05:36
to prove that you can do a community-based model
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ู„ุฅุซุจุงุช ุฃู†ู‡ ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุนู…ู„ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ู…ุฌุชู…ุนูŠ
05:40
that doesn't require electronic monitoring
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ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠ ู„ุง ูŠุญุชุงุฌ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ุฑุงู‚ุจุฉ ุฅู„ูƒุชุฑูˆู†ูŠุฉ
05:43
or risk algorithms or jail cells or cash bail,
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ุฃูˆ ุฎูˆุงุฑุฒู…ูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุฎุงุทุฑ ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุณุฌู† ุฃูˆ ุฏูุน ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ
05:46
but that you can simply release people to communities with supports.
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุจุจุณุงุทุฉ ุฅุทู„ุงู‚ ุณุฑุงุญ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ู„ู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ู…ุน ุงู„ุฏุนู….
05:50
And that will work.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุณูŠู†ุฌุญ.
05:51
MZ: I want to come back to that in a minute, but before we do that,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฃุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ุฃุนูˆุฏ ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุฎู„ุงู„ ุฏู‚ูŠู‚ุฉุŒ ู„ูƒู† ู‚ุจู„ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
05:54
my background is as a tech journalist,
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ุฎู„ููŠุชูŠ ูƒุตุญููŠุฉ ุชู‚ู†ูŠุฉุŒ
05:56
and when you talk about scaling a program like this,
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ูˆุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชุชุญุฏุซูŠู† ุนู† ุชูˆุณุน ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ ูƒู‡ุฐุงุŒ
05:59
I can only assume that you are facing completely different challenges
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ุฃูุชุฑุถ ุฃู†ูƒ ุชูˆุงุฌู‡ูŠู† ุชุญุฏูŠุงุช ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹
06:02
than, say, a founder of an app or a platform or something like that.
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ุนู†ุŒ ู…ุซู„ุงู‹ุŒ ู…ุคุณุณุฉ ุชุทุจูŠู‚ ุฃูˆู…ู†ุตุฉ ุฃูˆ ุดูŠุก ู…ู…ุงุซู„.
06:05
What are the challenges?
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ู…ุง ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ุชุญุฏูŠุงุชุŸ
06:07
I mean, you're going to states with different laws,
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ุฃุนู†ูŠุŒ ุชุฐู‡ุจูŠู† ุฅู„ู‰ ูˆู„ุงูŠุงุช ุจู‚ูˆุงู†ูŠู† ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉุŒ
06:09
each city must be so completely different.
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ุชุฎุชู„ู ูƒู„ ู…ุฏูŠู†ุฉ ูƒู„ูŠุงู‹.
06:12
How do you do it?
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ูƒูŠู ุชู‚ูˆู…ูŠู† ุจู‡ุฐุงุŸ
06:13
RS: So you know, scaling the revolving bail fund itself,
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุชุนู„ู…ูŠู†ุŒ ู†ุดุฑ ุตู†ุฏูˆู‚ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุชุฌุฏุฏ ู†ูุณู‡ุŒ
06:17
that's been the easy, elegant solution, right?
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ุญู„ ุณู‡ู„ ูˆุฑุงู‚ูŠุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
06:19
That's the easy part, that's direct service part,
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ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุฌุฒุก ุงู„ุณู‡ู„ุŒ ุงู„ุฎุฏู…ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุจุงุดุฑุฉุŒ
06:22
we can scale that across the country.
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ู†ุณุชุทูŠุน ู†ุดุฑ ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุจู„ุฏ.
06:24
The ground game,
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ุธุฑูˆู ุงู„ู…ู„ุนุจุŒ
06:25
the teams that work as bail disruptors for the Bail Project
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ุงู„ููุฑูŽู‚ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุนู…ู„ ูƒู†ุงุดุฑูŠ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู„ู„ู…ุดุฑูˆุน
06:28
at different locations across the country,
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ููŠ ุฃู…ุงูƒู† ู…ุฎุชู„ูุฉ ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุจู„ุฏุŒ
06:30
they have to take our model
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ุนู„ูŠู‡ู… ุฃุฎุฐ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌู†ุง
06:32
and adapt it to the unique needs of each jurisdiction.
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ูˆุชุทูˆูŠุนู‡ ู„ู„ุงุญุชูŠุงุฌุงุช ุงู„ุฎุงุตุฉ ู„ูƒู„ ูˆู„ุงูŠุฉ.
06:35
And that's where it becomes complex,
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ูˆู‡ู†ุง ูŠุตูŠุฑ ู…ุนู‚ุฏุงู‹ุŒ
06:38
and it's very resource intensive,
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ูˆูƒุซูŠู ุงู„ุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ู„ู„ู…ูˆุงุฑุฏุŒ
06:40
because criminal justice is incredibly local,
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ู„ุฃู† ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ ู…ุญู„ูŠุฉุŒ
06:42
and so how each system operates is unique.
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ูˆุจุงู„ุชุงู„ูŠ ูุฅู† ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุนู…ู„ ูƒู„ ู†ุธุงู… ูุฑูŠุฏุฉ ู…ู† ู†ูˆุนู‡ุง.
06:46
And what the needs of our clients are
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ูˆู…ุง ูŠุญุชุงุฌู‡ ู…ูˆูƒู„ูŠู†ุง
06:48
are incredibly different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
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ู…ุฎุชู„ู ูƒู„ูŠุงู‹ ู…ู† ุณู„ุทุฉ ู‚ุถุงุฆูŠุฉ ู„ุฃุฎุฑู‰.
06:51
So you can be in Oklahoma
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ู„ุฐุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ูƒ ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุฃูˆูƒู„ุงู‡ูˆู…ุง
06:52
and what you know is that communities have been ravaged by the opioid crisis,
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ูˆู…ุง ุชุนุฑูู‡ ุฃู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ุฏู…ุฑุชู‡ุง ุฃุฒู…ุฉ ุงู„ู…ูˆุงุฏ ุงู„ุฃููŠูˆู†ูŠุฉุŒ
06:56
and when we're bringing people home,
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ูˆุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู†ุนูŠุฏ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู„ู„ู…ู†ุฒู„ุŒ
06:57
we have to connect them to services that might address that.
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ูŠุชูˆุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุชูˆุตูŠู„ู‡ู… ู„ู„ุฎุฏู…ุงุช ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ุชุนุงู„ุฌู‡ู….
07:00
When you're in Spokane,
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ููŠ ุณุจูˆูƒุงู†ุŒ
07:02
you're talking about an epidemic of homelessness.
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ูุฃู†ุช ุชุชุญุฏุซ ุนู† ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ุงู„ุชุดุฑู‘ุฏ.
07:04
So when you're thinking about providing direct services and bringing people home,
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ู„ุฐุง ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชููƒุฑ ููŠ ุชุฒูˆูŠุฏ ุฎุฏู…ุงุช ู…ุจุงุดุฑุฉ ูˆุฅุนุงุฏุฉ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู„ู„ู…ู†ุฒู„ุŒ
07:08
you have to be mindful of the fact that in that jurisdiction
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ุนู„ูŠูƒ ุฃู† ุชุฏุฑูƒ ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุฃู† ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ูˆู„ุงูŠุฉ
07:11
that may be the biggest obstacle for people,
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ู‚ุฏ ูŠูƒูˆู† ุฃูƒุจุฑ ุนู‚ุจุฉ ู„ู„ุฃุดุฎุงุตุŒ
07:13
is that they don't have shelter.
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ู‡ูˆ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ุจู„ุง ู…ุฃูˆู‰.
07:14
And so we need to adapt our model in every jurisdiction we go to
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ูˆู†ุญู† ู†ุญุชุงุฌ ู„ู…ูˆุงุกู…ุฉ ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌู†ุง ููŠ ูƒู„ ูˆู„ุงูŠุฉ ู†ุฐู‡ุจ ุฅู„ูŠู‡ุง
07:17
to address the needs of that community.
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ู„ุชู„ุจูŠุฉ ุงุญุชูŠุงุฌุงุช ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน.
07:19
MZ: I could only assume that some of these communities
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ูŠ ูู‚ุท ุฃู† ุฃูุชุฑุถ ุฃู† ุจุนุถ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช
07:22
are not so happy that you're there.
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ู„ูŠุณูˆุง ุณุนุฏุงุก ุจูˆุฌูˆุฏูƒ ููŠู‡ุง.
07:24
That must be a reality of it.
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ูˆุงู‚ุนุฉ.
07:26
Do you have to win hearts and minds as well,
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ู‡ู„ ุนู„ูŠูƒ ุงู„ููˆุฒ ุจุงู„ู‚ู„ูˆุจ ูˆุงู„ุนู‚ูˆู„ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŒ
07:28
in some of these places?
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ููŠ ุจุนุถ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃู…ุงูƒู†ุŸ
07:30
RS: So I think it depends on the definition of community.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุฃุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุฐู„ูƒ ูŠุนุชู…ุฏ ุนู„ู‰ ุชุญุฏูŠุฏ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน.
07:32
So communities that have been targeted by our criminal legal system
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ุญุชู‰ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชู… ุงุณุชู‡ุฏุงูู‡ุง ุจูˆุงุณุทุฉ ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
07:36
for generations,
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ู„ุฃุฌูŠุงู„ุŒ
07:37
communities of color, low-income communities,
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ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ุงู„ู…ู„ูˆู†ูŠู† ูˆุฐุงุช ุงู„ุฏุฎู„ ุงู„ู…ู†ุฎูุถุŒ
07:39
marginalized communities, women across the country,
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ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ุงู„ู…ู‡ู…ุดุฉ ูˆุงู„ู…ุฑุฃุฉ ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุจู„ุฏ.
07:42
they are more than happy to see us come,
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ูŠุดุนุฑูˆู† ุจุฃูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ุณุนุฏุงุก ุจูˆุฌูˆุฏู†ุงุŒ
07:44
because we are just an immediate lifeline.
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ู„ุฃู†ู†ุง ู…ุฌุฑุฏ ูˆุณูŠู„ุฉ ู†ุฌุงุฉ ู…ุจุงุดุฑุฉ.
07:47
Bail funds are a tool to get people out as an immediate lifeline,
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ุฃู…ูˆุงู„ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ู‡ูŠ ุฃุฏุงุฉ ู„ุฅุฎุฑุงุฌ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ูƒูˆุณูŠู„ุฉ ู†ุฌุงุฉ ููˆุฑูŠุฉุŒ
07:50
it's not a long-term, systemic answer, right?
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ู„ูŠุณุช ุทูˆูŠู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฏุŒ ุฅุฌุงุจุฉ ู†ุธุงู…ูŠุฉุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
07:52
But people are, of course,
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ู„ูƒู† ุงู„ู†ุงุณุŒ ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏุŒ
07:54
they want to get out, go back to their families,
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ูŠุฑูŠุฏูˆู† ุงู„ุฎุฑูˆุฌ ูˆุงู„ุนูˆุฏุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุนุงุฆู„ุงุชู‡ู…ุŒ
07:57
their communities want them home.
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ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุชู‡ู… ุชุฑูŠุฏู‡ู… ููŠ ุจูŠูˆุชู‡ู….
07:58
Has there been some opposition?
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ู‡ู„ ูƒุงู†ุช ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ู…ุนุงุฑุถุฉุŸ
08:00
Sure, of course.
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ู†ุนู… ุจุงู„ุชุฃูƒูŠุฏ.
08:02
You know, when we go into a new site,
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู†ุฏุฎู„ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ูˆู‚ุน ุฌุฏูŠุฏุŒ
08:03
we do so carefully, we prospect it carefully,
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ู†ูุนู„ ุฐู„ูƒ ุจุนู†ุงูŠุฉ ูˆุญุฐุฑุŒ
08:06
we try to understand who are our partners on the ground
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ู†ุญุงูˆู„ ุฃู† ู†ูู‡ู… ู…ู† ู‡ู… ุดุฑูƒุงุคู†ุง ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุฑุถ
08:08
that might help us in this initiative,
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ูŠุณุงุนุฏู†ุง ููŠ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุจุงุฏุฑุฉุŒ
08:10
grassroots organizers, not-for-profit organizations,
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ู…ู†ุธู…ูˆ ุงู„ู‚ูˆุงุนุฏ ุงู„ุดุนุจูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ู…ู†ุธู…ุงุช ุบูŠุฑ ุงู„ู‡ุงุฏูุฉ ู„ู„ุฑุจุญุŒ
08:13
systems holders, sheriffs, right?
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ุงู„ู…ุณุคูˆู„ูˆู† ูˆู…ุฏุฑุงุก ุงู„ุดุฑุทุฉุŒ ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŸ
08:14
Who is going to support us and who our opposition might be.
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ู…ู† ุณูŠุฏุนู…ู†ุง ูˆู…ู† ู‚ุฏ ูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ุนุงุฑุถู†ุง.
08:18
MZ: You also put some of the people that you bail out,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฃู†ุช ุฃูŠุถุง ุนูŠู†ุช ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุชูŠ ู‚ู…ุช ุจุฅู†ู‚ุงุฐู‡ู…ุŒ
08:21
you bring them back, right, as program officers.
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ูˆุฅุนุงุฏุชู‡ู…ุŒ ูƒู…ุณุคูˆู„ูŠู† ุนู† ุงู„ุจุฑู†ุงู…ุฌ.
08:23
Is that part of the system
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ู‡ู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุฌุฒุก ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุธุงู…
08:25
that you're trying to make a community around your efforts in some way?
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ุฃู†ูƒ ุชุญุงูˆู„ูŠู† ุฅู†ุดุงุก ู…ุฌุชู…ุน ุญูˆู„ ุฌู‡ูˆุฏูƒ ุจุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ู…ุงุŸ
08:30
RS: So when we're hiring for local jurisdictions,
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจุงู„ุชูˆุธูŠู ู„ู„ุณู„ุทุงุช ุงู„ู‚ุถุงุฆูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠุฉุŒ
08:33
we always hire locally.
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ุฏุงุฆู…ุง ู†ูˆุธู ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุณุชูˆู‰ ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠ.
08:35
If we open a site in Baton Rouge,
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ุฅุฐุง ูุชุญู†ุง ู…ูˆู‚ุนุงู‹ ููŠ ุจุงุชูˆู† ุฑูˆุฌุŒ
08:36
we hire people from Baton Rouge and are connected to the community.
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ู†ูˆุธู ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ู…ู† ุจุงุชูˆู† ุฑูˆุฌ ูˆู…ุชูˆุงุตู„ูˆู† ู…ุน ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน.
08:40
We try to prioritize people with lived experience
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ู†ุญุงูˆู„ ุฅุนุทุงุก ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ูˆูŠุฉ ู„ู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู…ู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ุฎุจุฑุฉ ุทูˆูŠู„ุฉ
08:42
in the criminal legal system,
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ููŠ ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุŒ
08:43
or people who have been personally impacted by the system.
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ุฃูˆ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุชุฃุซุฑูˆุง ุดุฎุตูŠุงู‹ ุจุงู„ู†ุธุงู….
08:46
We think it's important, they understand the system best,
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ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ุฐู„ูƒ ู…ู‡ู…ุŒ ูู‡ู… ูŠูู‡ู…ูˆู† ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุจุดูƒู„ ุฃูุถู„ุŒ
08:49
they have the best solutions because they're closest to the problem
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ู„ุฏูŠู‡ู… ุฃูุถู„ ุงู„ุญู„ูˆู„ ู„ุฃู†ู‡ู… ุงู„ุฃู‚ุฑุจ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ
08:52
and they're credible messengers for the clients
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ูˆุฐูˆ ู…ุตุฏุงู‚ูŠุฉ ู„ู„ู…ูˆูƒู„ูŠู†
08:54
that we're going to be interviewing and providing bail for.
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ุณู†ุฌุฑูŠ ู…ู‚ุงุจู„ุงุช ู…ุนู‡ู… ูˆู†ูˆูุฑ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ.
ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุฑูƒุฒุช ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑุŒ
08:57
MZ: So you touched on this,
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08:59
criminal justice reform has become a hot topic,
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ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ ุฃุตุจุญ ู…ูˆุถูˆุนุงู‹ ู…ุซูŠุฑุงู‹ุŒ
09:01
you must be like, "Yay, finally people are talking about this thing
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ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ุซู„ "ู†ุนู…ุŒ ุฃุฎูŠุฑุงู‹ ูŠุชุญุฏุซ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุนู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ
09:04
that I've been banging on about for decades."
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูƒู†ุช ุฃุญุงูˆู„ ููŠู‡ ู…ู†ุฐ ุนู‚ูˆุฏ."
09:06
Here in California actually, though, there has been a big change.
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ู‡ู†ุง ููŠ ูƒุงู„ูŠููˆุฑู†ูŠุง ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุนุŒ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฑุบู… ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒุŒ ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุชุบูŠูŠุฑุงู‹ ูƒุจูŠุฑุงู‹.
09:11
Now it's complicated,
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ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ู…ุนู‚ุฏ ุงู„ุขู†ุŒ
09:12
but my understanding is that they're getting rid of cash bail.
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ู„ูƒู† ุญุณุจ ูู‡ู…ูŠ ุฃู†ู‡ู… ูŠุชุฎู„ุตูˆู† ู…ู† ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ.
09:15
Good thing, bad thing, not quite that simple to explain?
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ุฃู…ุฑ ุฌูŠุฏ ุฃูˆ ุณูŠุฆุŒ ู„ูŠุณ ุจู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุจุณุงุทุฉ ู„ุดุฑุญู‡ุŸ
09:18
RS: So everything about criminal justice reform,
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ู„ุฐุง ูƒู„ ุดูŠุก ุญูˆู„ ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉุŒ
09:21
and particularly bail reform,
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ูˆุฎุงุตุฉ ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ
09:22
is way more complex than it looks, right?
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ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุชุนู‚ูŠุฏุงู‹ ู…ู…ุง ูŠุจุฏูˆ ุนู„ูŠู‡.
09:24
So it's easy to have a hashtag that says "end cash bail."
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู…ู† ุงู„ุณู‡ู„ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ู‡ุงุดุชุงุฌ ุชู‚ูˆู„ "ุฅู†ู‡ุงุก ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ".
09:27
Totally right.
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ุตุญูŠุญ ุชู…ุงู…ุงู‹.
09:29
We have to eliminate unaffordable cash bail forever.
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ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุถุงุก ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ ุจุงู‡ุธุฉ ุงู„ุชูƒุงู„ูŠู ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃุจุฏ.
09:31
We know money isn't what makes people come back,
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ู†ุญู† ู†ุนู„ู… ุฃู† ุงู„ู…ุงู„ ู„ูŠุณ ู…ุง ูŠุฌุนู„ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ูŠุนูˆุฏูˆู†ุŒ
09:34
it's a myth, let's get rid of it.
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ุฎุฑุงูุฉุŒ ุฏุนูˆู†ุง ู†ุชุฎู„ุต ู…ู†ู‡ุง.
09:35
But the question about what comes next is very, very complex,
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ู„ูƒู† ุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ุญูˆู„ ู…ุง ูŠุฃุชูŠ ุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ู…ุนู‚ุฏ ู„ู„ุบุงูŠุฉุŒ
09:38
and California was a good example.
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ูˆูƒุงู†ุช ูƒุงู„ูŠููˆุฑู†ูŠุง ู…ุซุงู„ุงู‹ ุฌูŠุฏุงู‹.
09:40
There was a bill that worked its way through the political process,
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ูƒุงู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ููŠ ุทุฑูŠู‚ู‡ ู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ ุงู„ุณูŠุงุณูŠุฉ
09:43
called SB 10.
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ูŠุณู…ู‰ SB 10.
09:44
It started out as what looked like a bill
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ุจุฏุฃ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ูƒู…ุดุฑูˆุน ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†
09:46
that would actually move towards more decarceration.
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ู…ู† ุดุฃู†ู‡ ุฃู† ูŠุญุฑูƒ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ู†ุญูˆ ุงู„ู…ุฒูŠุฏ ู…ู† ุงู„ุชููƒูŠูƒ.
09:49
By the time it came out of the political process,
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ููŠ ุงู„ูˆู‚ุช ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุธู‡ุฑ ููŠู‡ุŒ
09:51
frankly it was a bill that almost nobody in the community would support,
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ุจุตุฑุงุญุฉ ูƒุงู† ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ู„ู† ูŠู‚ูˆู… ุฃุญุฏ ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุน ุจุฏุนู…ู‡ุŒ
09:55
including the Bail Project.
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ูŠุดู…ู„ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ.
09:57
And it had gone through
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ูˆู‚ุฏ ู…ุฑ
09:59
some changes in that process
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ุจุจุนุถ ุงู„ุชุบูŠูŠุฑุงุช ููŠ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉ
10:01
that placed, you know, pretrial services in the hands of law enforcement,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ูˆุถุนุช ุฎุฏู…ุงุช ู…ุง ู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ู…ุญุงูƒู…ุฉ ููŠ ุฃูŠุฏูŠ ู…ุทุจู‚ูŠ ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ุŒ
10:05
that put people through risk algorithms,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุนุฑุถ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู„ุฎูˆุงุฑุฒู…ูŠุงุช ุงู„ู…ุฎุงุทุฑุŒ
10:08
that sort of had a lot of the telltale signs of a system
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ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู†ูˆุน ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠู‡ ุงู„ูƒุซูŠุฑ ู…ู† ุงู„ุนู„ุงู…ุงุช ุงู„ูˆุงุถุญุฉ ู„ู„ู†ุธุงู…
10:11
that was going to recreate the same racial inequity and economic inequalities
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูƒุงู† ุณูŠุนูŠุฏ ุนุฏู… ุงู„ู…ุณุงูˆุงุฉ ุงู„ุนุฑู‚ูŠุฉ ูˆุงู„ุชูุงูˆุชุงุช ุงู„ุงู‚ุชุตุงุฏูŠุฉ
10:15
that we had always seen,
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ุงู„ุชูŠ ู†ุฑุงู‡ุง ุฏุงุฆู…ุงู‹ุŒ
10:17
and so, that bill actually moved through the process,
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ูˆู…ุฑ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ู‡ุฐุง ุจุงู„ูุนู„ ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุนู…ู„ูŠุฉุŒ
10:19
and we thought that was the end.
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ูˆูƒู†ุง ู†ุนุชู‚ุฏ ุฃู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ.
10:21
But then the bail bond industry actually got 400,000 signatures
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ูˆู„ูƒู† ุญุตู„ุช ุณู†ุฏุงุช ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ููŠ ุงู„ูˆุงู‚ุน ุนู„ู‰ 400.000 ุชูˆู‚ูŠุน
10:26
to put it on the ballot.
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ู„ูˆุถุนู‡ ุนู„ู‰ ุจุทุงู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุงู‚ุชุฑุงุน.
10:27
So in November, Californians will be voting
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ุณูŠุตูˆุช ุณูƒุงู† ูƒุงู„ูŠููˆุฑู†ูŠุง ููŠ ู†ูˆูู…ุจุฑ
10:29
on whether or not SB 10 should go forward or not.
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ุนู„ู‰ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน SB 10.
10:32
MZ: So Californians in the audience, you will be voting on this.
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ุณูƒุงู† ูƒุงู„ูŠููˆุฑู†ูŠุง ุงู„ุญุงุถุฑูˆู†ุŒ ุณูˆู ูŠุตูˆุชูˆู† ุนู„ู‰ ู‡ุฐุง.
10:36
How should they vote?
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ูƒูŠู ูŠูุนู„ูˆู† ุฐู„ูƒุŸ
10:38
RS: So I'm not so bold as to say that.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุฃู†ุง ู„ุณุช ุฌุฑูŠุฆุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹ ู„ู‚ูˆู„ ุฐู„ูƒ.
10:41
I may be audacious, but I'm not that audacious.
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ุฑุจู…ุง ุฃูƒูˆู† ุฌุฑูŠุฆุฉ ู„ูƒู† ู„ูŠุณ ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู‚ุฏุฑ.
10:44
But what I will say is, educate yourselves.
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ู„ูƒู† ู…ุง ุณุฃู‚ูˆู„ู‡ ู‡ูˆ ุนู„ู‘ู… ู†ูุณูƒ.
10:46
Understand what you're voting on.
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ุงูู‡ู… ู…ุง ุณุชู‚ูˆู… ุจุงู„ุชุตูˆูŠุช ู„ู‡.
10:48
Understand what it means to hold somebody in jail
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ุงูู‡ู… ู…ุง ูŠุนู†ูŠู‡ ุงุญุชุฌุงุฒ ุดุฎุต ููŠ ุงู„ุณุฌู†
10:51
who hasn't been convicted of a crime
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ู„ู… ูŠูุฏูŽู† ุจุฌุฑูŠู…ุฉ
10:53
simply for their poverty, right?
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ู„ู…ุฌุฑุฏ ูู‚ุฑู‡.
10:56
And ask yourselves, do we want to have a criminal legal system
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ูˆุงุณุฃู„ ู†ูุณูƒุŒ ู‡ู„ ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ู†ุธุงู… ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
11:00
that incarcerates people before they've been convicted of a crime?
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ูŠุณุฌู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ู‚ุจู„ ุฅุฏุงู†ุชู‡ู… ุจุฌุฑูŠู…ุฉุŸ
11:04
Do we want to have a criminal legal system
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ู‡ู„ ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง ู†ุธุงู… ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
11:06
that continues to target communities of color
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ูŠุณุชู…ุฑ ุจุงุณุชู‡ุฏุงู ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ุบูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจูŠุถ
11:08
and low-income communities across this country,
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ูˆู‚ู„ูŠู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฏุฎู„ ููŠ ุฃู†ุญุงุก ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฏูˆู„ุฉุŒ
11:11
do we want to continue the damage and the devastation
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ู‡ู„ ู†ุฑูŠุฏ ุงู„ุงุณุชู…ุฑุงุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ุถุฑุฑ ูˆุงู„ุฏู…ุงุฑ
11:13
that we have created through mass incarceration?
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชุณุจุจู†ุง ุจู‡ ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุงุญุชุฌุงุฒ ุจุฃุนุฏุงุฏ ูƒุจูŠุฑุฉุŸ
11:15
So I'm not taking position on which way you should vote,
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ุฃู†ุง ู„ุณุช ุจุตุฏุฏ ุงุชุฎุงุฐ ู…ูˆู‚ู ููŠ ุฃูŠ ุทุฑูŠู‚ ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ุชุตูˆุชูˆุงุŒ
11:18
but take that into account.
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ู„ูƒู† ุถุนูˆุง ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุงู„ุงุนุชุจุงุฑ.
11:19
MZ: She told me backstage, "I'm not sure how I'm going to vote yet."
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู‚ุงู„ุช ู„ูŠ ูˆุฑุงุก ุงู„ูƒูˆุงู„ูŠุณ: "ู„ุณุช ู…ุชุฃูƒุฏุฉ ูƒูŠู ุณุฃุตูˆุช ุจุนุฏ."
11:23
I mean, it's that difficult, right?
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ุฃุนู†ูŠุŒ ู‡ุฐุง ุตุนุจุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
11:26
RS: Well, it's a little more complicated.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุญุณู†ุงู‹ุŒ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุฃูƒุซุฑ ุชุนู‚ูŠุฏุงู‹.
11:28
It's the form of SB 10 as it exists
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ุดูƒู„ SB 10 ูƒู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ู…ูˆุฌูˆุฏ
11:31
is not a bill that most of us would support, right?
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ู„ูŠุณ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ุณูŠุฏุนู…ู‡ ุฃุบู„ุจู†ุงุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
11:35
But eliminating cash bail is critical.
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ู„ูƒู† ุฅู„ุบุงุก ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู†ู‚ุฏูŠุฉ ุฃู…ุฑ ุจุงู„ุบ ุงู„ุฃู‡ู…ูŠุฉ.
11:37
MZ: Alright, I want you to forecast into the future.
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฃูˆุฏ ุฃู† ุชุชู†ุจุฆูŠ ุงู„ู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„.
11:41
What does an ideal system look like?
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ูƒูŠู ูŠุจุฏูˆ ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู…ุซุงู„ูŠุŸ
11:43
You have said that America is addicted to incarceration.
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ู‚ู„ุช ุฃู† ุฃู…ุฑูŠูƒุง ู…ุฏู…ู†ุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญุจุณ.
11:47
Does there have to be a cultural shift around that
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ู‡ู„ ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠูƒูˆู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุชุญูˆู„ ุซู‚ุงููŠ ุญูˆู„ ุฐู„ูƒ
11:50
in addition to making some of the changes that you're talking about?
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ุจุงู„ุฅุถุงูุฉ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฅุฌุฑุงุก ุจุนุถ ุงู„ุชุบูŠูŠุฑุงุช ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุชุญุฏุซูŠู† ุนู†ู‡ุงุŸ
11:53
RS: So, you know, we have to reckon with what we've done.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ุนุชุจุฑ ู…ุง ู‚ู…ู†ุง ุจู‡.
11:57
If we don't face head-on
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ุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ู†ูˆุงุฌู‡ ูˆุฌู‡ุงู‹ ู„ูˆุฌู‡
11:59
how we've used our criminal legal system,
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ูƒูŠููŠุฉ ุงุณุชุฎุฏู…ู†ุง ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุŒ
12:02
and who we have targeted, and how we've defined crime,
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ูˆู…ู† ุงุณุชู‡ุฏูู†ุง ูˆูƒูŠู ุนุฑูู†ุง ุงู„ุฌุฑูŠู…ุฉุŒ
12:05
and how we punish people,
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ูˆูƒูŠู ู†ุนุงู‚ุจ ุงู„ู†ุงุณุŒ
12:06
we're never going to move forward.
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ู„ู† ู†ุชู‚ุฏู… ุฃุจุฏุงู‹.
12:08
So we are going to have to reckon with the harm that we've caused.
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ู„ุฐุง ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ุญุณุจ ุงู„ุถุฑุฑ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชุณุจุจู†ุง ุจู‡.
12:11
And in so doing, we're going to have to shift our lens.
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ูˆุจุฐู„ูƒุŒ ู†ุบูŠุฑ ุฑุคูŠุชู†ุง ู„ู„ุฃู…ูˆุฑ.
12:14
And that's a real challenge for us, right?
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุชุญุฏู ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠ ุจุงู„ู†ุณุจุฉ ู„ู†ุงุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
12:17
We're going to have to shift our lens
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ุณู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ุฑุคูŠุชู†ุง ู„ู„ุฃู…ูˆุฑ
12:18
from a system that's about punishment and cruelty and isolation
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ู…ู† ู†ุธุงู… ูŠุชุนู„ู‚ ุจุงู„ุนู‚ุงุจ ูˆุงู„ู‚ุณูˆุฉ ูˆุงู„ุนุฒู„ุฉ
12:24
and cages
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ูˆุงู„ุณุฌู†
12:26
to a lens of,
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ู„ู€
12:28
"What do you need, how can we support,
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"ู…ุงุฐุง ุชุญุชุงุฌุŒ ูƒูŠู ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุฏุนู…ุŒ
12:31
where have we failed,
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ุฃูŠู† ูุดู„ู†ุงุŒ
12:33
how can we make that better,
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ูƒูŠู ูŠู…ูƒู†ู†ุง ุชุญุณูŠู† ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
12:34
how can we restore and how can we heal?"
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ูƒูŠู ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ู†ุนูˆุฏ ูˆุฃู† ู†ุชุนุงูู‰ุŸ"
12:37
And if we aren't willing to do that,
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ูˆุฅุฐุง ู„ู… ู†ูƒู† ุนู„ู‰ ุงุณุชุนุฏุงุฏ ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒุŒ
12:40
criminal justice reform is going to be stalled,
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ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ ุณูŠุชูˆู‚ูุŒ
12:42
or what comes next is going to be really problematic.
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ุฃูˆ ู…ุง ูŠุฃุชูŠ ุจุนุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ุณูŠูƒูˆู† ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ุญู‚ุงู‹.
12:45
It is a fundamental shift in the way that we see
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ุฅู†ู‡ ุชุญูˆู„ ุฃุณุงุณูŠ ุจุงู„ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ู†ุฑู‰ ุจู‡ุง
12:48
our criminal justice system.
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ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ ู„ุฏูŠู†ุง.
12:49
And make no mistake about it,
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ูˆู„ุง ุชุฎุทุฆูˆุง ููŠ ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
12:51
the context of our criminal legal system
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ุณูŠุงู‚ ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
12:53
is we have turned our back on social problems, right?
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ู‡ูˆ ุฃู†ู†ุง ุฃุฏุฑู†ุง ุธู‡ูˆุฑู†ุง ุนู† ุงู„ู…ุดุงูƒู„ ุงู„ุงุฌุชู…ุงุนูŠุฉ.
12:56
So we have turned our backs on homelessness
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ุฃุฏุฑู†ุง ุธู‡ูˆุฑู†ุง ุนู† ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ุงู„ุชุดุฑู‘ุฏ
12:59
and dire poverty and structural racism
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ูˆุงู„ูู‚ุฑ ุงู„ู…ุฏู‚ุน ูˆุงู„ุนู†ุตุฑูŠุฉ
13:02
and mental health challenges
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ูˆุชุญุฏูŠุงุช ุงู„ุตุญุฉ ุงู„ู†ูุณูŠุฉ
13:03
and addiction
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ูˆุงู„ุฅุฏู…ุงู†
13:05
and even immigration status.
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ูˆุญุชู‰ ุงู„ูˆุถุน ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ู„ู„ู…ู‡ุงุฌุฑูŠู†.
13:06
And instead, we have used our jails and our criminal legal system, right,
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ูˆุจุฏู„ุงู‹ ู…ู† ุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ุณุฌูˆู†ู†ุง ูˆู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
13:11
to answer those problems.
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ู„ุญู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ุงุช.
13:13
And that has to change.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ูŠุชุบูŠุฑ.
13:15
MZ: It's not the answer.
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู‡ุฐู‡ ู„ูŠุณุช ุงู„ุฅุฌุงุจุฉ.
13:16
RS: We have done damage to millions of people
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุชุณุจุจู†ุง ุจุถุฑุฑ ู„ู…ู„ุงูŠูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต
13:20
and in so doing, we have harmed their families
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ูˆุจุฐู„ูƒ ุชุณุจุจู†ุง ุจุถุฑุฑ ู„ุฃุณุฑู‡ู…
13:23
and we have harmed their communities,
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ูˆู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุชู‡ู…ุŒ
13:24
and we need to reckon with that.
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ูˆูŠุฌุจ ุฃู† ู†ุถุน ุฐู„ูƒ ููŠ ุงู„ุงุนุชุจุงุฑ.
13:26
MZ: So I want to ask you finally --
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฃูˆุฏ ุฃู† ุฃุณุฃู„ูƒ ููŠ ุงู„ู†ู‡ุงูŠุฉ-
13:28
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
13:33
You've got some of the smartest women in the world here,
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ูŠูˆุฌุฏ ู‡ู†ุง ุฃุฐูƒู‰ ู†ุณุงุก ููŠ ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…ุŒ
13:37
surrounding you.
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ุญูˆู„ูƒุŒ
13:40
They're energized,
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ู…ุชุญู…ุณุงุชุŒ
13:41
they want to know what to do with that energy
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ูŠุฑุฏู† ู…ุนุฑูุฉ ู…ุง ูŠู…ูƒู†ู‡ู† ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจู‡ ุจู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุญู…ุงุณ
13:43
when they go back to their communities.
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ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูŠุนุฏู† ู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุชู‡ู†.
13:45
And actually I know you took some of them to see a local jail yesterday, right?
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ูˆุฃู†ุง ุฃุนู„ู… ุฃู†ูƒู… ู‚ู…ุชู… ุจุฒูŠุงุฑุฉ ุณุฌู† ู…ุญู„ูŠ ุฃู…ุณุŒ ุฃู„ูŠุณ ูƒุฐู„ูƒุŸ
13:49
RS: I did.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ู†ุนู… ูุนู„ุช.
13:50
MZ: Can you tell us about that?
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู‡ู„ุง ุฃุฎุจุฑุชูŠู†ุง ุนู† ุฐู„ูƒุŸ
13:52
RS: So, here's what we need to understand.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุฅู„ูŠูƒู… ู…ุง ู†ุญุชุงุฌ ุฅู„ู‰ ูู‡ู…ู‡.
13:54
This problem is all of our problems.
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ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ู…ุดูƒู„ุฉ ู‡ูŠ ูƒู„ ู…ุดุงูƒู„ู†ุง.
13:57
Each and every one of us is implicated
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ูƒู„ ูˆุงุญุฏ ู…ู†ุง ุฏุงุฎู„
13:59
in what our criminal legal system looks like.
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ููŠ ู…ุง ูŠุจุฏูˆ ู„ู†ุง ุงู„ู†ุธุงู… ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ.
14:01
There is no escaping that.
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ู„ุง ู…ูุฑ ู…ู† ุฐู„ูƒ.
14:03
It reflects each of us.
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ูˆู‡ูˆ ูŠุนุจุฑ ุนู† ูƒู„ ู…ู†ุง.
14:04
Every time a prosecutor gets up and says,
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ููŠ ูƒู„ ู…ุฑุฉ ูŠู†ู‡ุถ ููŠู‡ุง ุงู„ู…ุฏุนูŠ ูˆูŠู‚ูˆู„:
14:06
"The people of the state of California" or "New York" or "Idaho,"
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"ุดุนุจ ูˆู„ุงูŠุฉ ูƒุงู„ูŠููˆุฑู†ูŠุง" ุฃูˆ "ู†ูŠูˆูŠูˆุฑูƒ" ุฃูˆ "ุฃูŠุฏุงู‡ูˆ"
14:10
they are speaking in your names.
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ูŠุชุญุฏุซูˆู† ุจุงุณู…ูƒ.
14:12
So we have to take some ownership over this.
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ูˆุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ุฃุฎุฐ ุจุนุถ ุงู„ู…ุณุคูˆู„ูŠุฉ ุนู† ุฐู„ูƒ.
14:15
And we really have to own the fact that this has to change
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ูˆุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุญู‚ุงู‹ ุฅุฏุฑุงูƒ ุฃู† ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจูˆุงุฌุจู†ุง ููŠ ุชุบูŠูŠุฑ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ
14:18
and this implicates every one of us.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ูŠุดู…ู„ ูƒู„ุงู‹ ู…ู†ุง.
14:20
So what you need to do, is as I said,
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ู„ุฐุง ู…ุง ุนู„ูŠูƒู… ุงู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจู‡ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ู‚ู„ุชุŒ
14:22
you need to get educated, you also need to get proximate to this.
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ุชุญุชุงุฌูˆู† ุฅู„ู‰ ุฃู† ุชุชุนู„ู…ูˆุงุŒ ูˆุชุญุชุงุฌูˆู† ุฃูŠุถุงู‹ ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุงู‚ุชุฑุงุจ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง.
14:25
And by getting proximate,
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ูˆู…ู† ุฎู„ุงู„ ุงู„ุชู‚ุงุฑุจุŒ
14:26
I mean you need to go and see how our criminal legal system operates.
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ุฃุนู†ูŠ ุฃู†ูƒู… ุจุญุงุฌุฉ ู„ู„ุฐู‡ุงุจ ูˆุฑุคูŠุฉ ูƒูŠู ูŠุนู…ู„ ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ.
14:29
That may mean go to a local criminal courthouse,
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ู‚ุฏ ูŠุนู†ูŠ ุฐู„ูƒ ุงู„ุฐู‡ุงุจ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉ ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉ ู…ุญู„ูŠุฉุŒ
14:32
sit in the back of a courtroom,
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ูˆุงุฌู„ุณูˆุง ููŠ ุงู„ุฌุฒุก ุงู„ุฎู„ููŠ ู…ู† ู‚ุงุนุฉ ุงู„ู…ุญูƒู…ุฉุŒ
14:34
and I promise you will never be the same,
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ูˆุฃุนุฏูƒู… ู„ู† ุชูƒูˆู†ูˆุง ูƒู…ุง ูƒู†ุชู…ุŒ
14:36
it's what made me become a public defender all those years ago.
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ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ุฏูุนู†ูŠ ู„ุฃุตุจุญ ู…ุญุงู…ูŠุฉ ุฏูุงุน ุนุงู… ู…ู†ุฐ ุชู„ูƒ ุงู„ุณู†ูˆุงุช.
14:39
And yesterday, I took a bunch of people from the TED conference
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ูˆุจุงู„ุฃู…ุณุŒ ุฃุฎุฐุช ู…ุฌู…ูˆุนุฉ ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ู…ู† ู…ุคุชู…ุฑ TED
14:42
to the local jail here.
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ุฅู„ู‰ ุงู„ุณุฌู† ุงู„ู…ุญู„ูŠ ู‡ู†ุง.
14:43
I have been coming in and out of jails for 38 years.
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ุฃุฑุชุงุฏ ุงู„ุณุฌูˆู† ู„ู…ุฏุฉ 38 ุนุงู…ุงู‹.
14:47
And I have never not been shocked,
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ูˆู„ู… ุฃุตุฏู… ู‚ุทุŒ
14:49
and yesterday was no exception.
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ูˆุจุงู„ุฃู…ุณ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ุงุณุชุซู†ุงุก.
14:50
I was shocked, I was horrified.
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ุตุฏู…ุช ูˆุดุนุฑุช ุจุงู„ุฑุนุจ.
14:52
The conditions were dehumanizing and degrading and horrifying --
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ูƒุงู†ุช ุงู„ุธุฑูˆู ุบูŠุฑ ุฅู†ุณุงู†ูŠุฉ ูˆู…ู‡ูŠู†ุฉ ูˆู…ุฑุนุจุฉ -
14:56
and incomprehensible
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ูˆุบูŠุฑ ู…ูู‡ูˆู…ุฉ
14:58
if you don't actually see it with your eyes.
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒู†ุช ู„ุง ุชุฑุงู‡ุง ุจุงู„ูุนู„ ุจุนูŠู†ูŠูƒ.
15:01
It was shocking.
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ูƒุงู†ุช ุตุงุฏู…ุฉ.
15:03
And I saw it on the faces of the people that I was with.
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ูˆุฑุฃูŠุช ุฐู„ูƒ ุนู„ู‰ ูˆุฌูˆู‡ ุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ูƒู†ุช ู…ุนู‡ู….
15:05
So we have to know that's what we're doing in the name of justice in this country
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ู„ุฐุง ุนู„ูŠู†ุง ุฃู† ู†ุนุฑู ุฃู† ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ู†ู‚ูˆู… ุจู‡ ุจุงุณู… ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ููŠ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุจู„ุฏ
15:09
and stand up against it.
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ูˆู…ูˆุงุฌู‡ุชู‡.
15:11
But the only way you're going to do that
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ู„ูƒู† ุงู„ุทุฑูŠู‚ุฉ ุงู„ูˆุญูŠุฏุฉ ู„ู„ู‚ูŠุงู… ุจุฐู„ูƒ
15:13
is if you fight back the narrative of fear that enables that to happen.
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ู‡ูˆ ุฅุฐุง ู‚ุงูˆู…ุช ุงู„ุฎูˆู ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠู…ูƒู† ุฃู† ูŠุญุฏุซ ุฐู„ูƒ.
15:17
And what do I mean by that?
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ูˆู…ุงุฐุง ุฃุนู†ูŠ ุจุฐู„ูƒุŸ
15:19
I promise you, every single time you get into a conversation
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ุฃุนุฏูƒ ููŠ ูƒู„ ู…ุฑุฉ ุชุฏุฎู„ ููŠ ู…ุญุงุฏุซุฉ
15:22
about bail reform or criminal justice reform,
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ุญูˆู„ ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉ ุฃูˆ ุฅุตู„ุงุญ ุงู„ุนุฏุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠุฉุŒ
15:24
here's what happens:
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ุฅู„ูŠูƒู… ู…ุง ูŠุญุฏุซ:
15:25
everybody starts talking about the scary case.
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ูŠุจุฏุฃ ุงู„ุฌู…ูŠุน ููŠ ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซ ุนู† ุงู„ุญุงู„ุฉ ุงู„ู…ุฎูŠูุฉ.
15:27
"But what about the guy who did X?"
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"ู„ูƒู† ู…ุงุฐุง ุนู† ุงู„ุฑุฌู„ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูุนู„ XุŸ"
15:30
So here's what I'm here -- to rest --
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ู„ุฐู„ูƒ ู‡ุฐุง ู…ุง ุฃู†ุง ู‡ู†ุง ู„ุฃุฌู„ู‡ - ุงู„ุชู…ู‡ู„ -
15:33
Just have you rest a little bit and sit with this, right?
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ูู‚ุท ุฃุทู„ุจ ู…ู†ูƒ ุงู„ุชู…ู‡ู„ ู‚ู„ูŠู„ุงู‹ ูˆุงู„ุชููƒูŠุฑ.
15:36
Despite the fact that we have used our criminal legal system
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ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฑุบู… ู…ู† ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ุฃู†ู†ุง ุงุณุชุฎุฏู…ู†ุง ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
15:39
and destroyed millions of people,
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ูˆุฏู…ุฑู†ุง ุงู„ู…ู„ุงูŠูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ู†ุงุณุŒ
15:41
that we have harmed people,
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ู‚ู…ู†ุง ุจุฅูŠุฐุงุก ุฃุดุฎุงุตุŒ
15:43
exposed them to trauma and violence,
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ุนุฑุถู†ุงู‡ู… ู„ู„ุตุฏู…ุฉ ูˆุงู„ุนู†ูุŒ
15:46
day after day after day,
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ูŠูˆู…ุงู‹ ุจุนุฏ ูŠูˆู…ุŒ
15:47
the truth is, when people come home,
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ุงู„ุญู‚ูŠู‚ุฉ ู‡ูŠ ุฃู†ู‡ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ูŠุนูˆุฏ ุงู„ู†ุงุณ ุฅู„ู‰ ู…ู†ุงุฒู„ู‡ู…ุŒ
15:50
bad things happen rarely.
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ูˆุญุฏูˆุซ ุฃู…ูˆุฑ ุณูŠุฆุฉ ู†ุงุฏุฑุงู‹.
15:53
It is the exception, not the rule.
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ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุงุณุชุซู†ุงุก ูˆู„ูŠุณ ุงู„ู‚ุงุนุฏุฉ.
15:55
It is the extraordinary, not the normal.
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ู‡ุฐุง ุงุณุชุซู†ุงุฆูŠุŒ ู„ูŠุณ ุงู„ุทุจูŠุนูŠุŒ
15:59
But if you don't know that,
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ู„ูƒู† ุฅุฐุง ูƒู†ุช ู„ุง ุชุนุฑู ุฐู„ูƒุŒ
16:01
if you don't hold on to that,
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒู†ุช ู„ุง ุชุชุญู…ู„ ู‡ุฐุงุŒ
16:02
if you can't support that with data, which we can,
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ุฅุฐุง ูƒู†ุช ู„ุง ุชุณุชุทูŠุน ุฏุนู… ุฐู„ูƒ ุจุงู„ุจูŠุงู†ุงุชุŒ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุณุชุทูŠุนุŒ
16:05
you will be drawn into the narrative of fear
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ุณุชุบุฑู‚ ููŠ ุงู„ุฎูˆู
16:07
that will lead us to justify
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุณูŠู‚ูˆุฏู†ุง ู„ุชุจุฑูŠุฑ
16:09
the kinds of horrors we have inflicted
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ุฃู†ูˆุงุน ุงู„ูุธุงุฆุน ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชุณุจุจู†ุง ููŠู‡ุง
16:12
upon communities of color and low-income communities
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ู„ู„ู…ุฌุชู…ุนุงุช ู…ู† ุบูŠุฑ ุงู„ุจูŠุถ ูˆู‚ู„ูŠู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฏุฎู„
16:14
and people that become ensnared in our criminal legal system
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ูˆุงู„ุฃุดุฎุงุต ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุฃุตุจุญูˆุง ู…ุชูˆุฑุทูŠู† ููŠ ู†ุธุงู…ู†ุง ุงู„ู‚ุงู†ูˆู†ูŠ ุงู„ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ
16:17
for far too long.
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ู„ูุชุฑุฉ ุทูˆูŠู„ุฉ ุฌุฏุงู‹.
16:18
So get educated --
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ุญุชู‰ ุงู„ุญุตูˆู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุชุนู„ูŠู… -
16:20
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
16:24
Get educated, proximate, stay vigilant,
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ุงู„ุญุตูˆู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุชุนู„ูŠู… ูˆุงู„ุญุฐุฑุŒ
16:27
do not be drawn into the narratives of fear,
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ู„ู† ูŠุบุฑู‚ู†ุง ููŠ ุงู„ู…ุฎุงูˆูุŒ
16:29
which are wildly and grossly racialized anyway.
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ุงู„ุฐูŠ ูŠุชุณู… ุจุงู„ุนู†ุตุฑูŠุฉ ุงู„ุดุฏูŠุฏุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ุฃูŠ ุญุงู„.
16:32
Check it when you hear it,
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ุชุญู‚ู‚ ู…ู†ู‡ ุนู†ุฏู…ุง ุชุณู…ุนู‡ุŒ
16:34
question it when somebody says it to you,
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ุงุทุฑุญ ุงู„ุฃุณุฆู„ุฉ ุญูˆู„ ู…ุง ูŠู‚ูˆู„ู‡ ู„ูƒ ุดุฎุต ู…ุงุŒ
16:36
ask for the data, "Why do you say that," right?
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ุงุณุฃู„ ุนู† ุงู„ู…ุนู„ูˆู…ุฉุŒ "ู„ู…ุงุฐุง ุชู‚ูˆู„ ุฐู„ูƒุŸ" ุญุณู†ุงู‹.
16:39
And don't get drawn into that.
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ูˆู„ุง ุชู†ุฌุฐุจ ุฅู„ู‰ ุฐู„ูƒ.
16:41
And if you do,
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ูˆุฅุฐุง ูุนู„ุชุŒ
16:42
I'm actually convinced
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ุฃู†ุง ุญู‚ุงู‹ ู…ู‚ุชู†ุนุฉ
16:44
that we're at a moment where we will build a better criminal legal system.
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ุฃู†ู†ุง ููŠ ู„ุญุธุฉ ุณู†ุจู†ูŠ ููŠู‡ุง ู†ุธุงู… ู‚ุงู†ูˆู† ุฌู†ุงุฆูŠ ุฃูุถู„.
16:47
If you get proximate to this
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ุฅุฐุง ุงู‚ุชุฑุจุช ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง
16:49
and you actually begin to engage in it,
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ูˆุจุฏุฃุช ุงู„ุชูุงุนู„ ููŠู‡ ุญู‚ุงู‹ุŒ
16:52
we will not only be a better country,
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ู„ู† ู†ูƒูˆู† ุจู„ุฏุงู‹ ุฃูุถู„ ูู‚ุทุŒ
16:54
each of us will be better people.
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ุณู†ูƒูˆู† ุฃู†ุงุณุงู‹ ุฃูุถู„.
16:56
And that is a worthy goal.
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ูˆู‡ุฐุง ู‡ุฏู ูŠุณุชุญู‚ ุงู„ุงู‡ุชู…ุงู….
16:58
MZ: It's a very worthy goal.
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ู‡ุฐุง ู‡ุฏู ูŠุณุชุญู‚ ุงู„ุงู‡ุชู…ุงู… ุฌุฏุงู‹.
17:00
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
17:04
I mean, did I hit the jackpot with my first interview, or what?
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ุฃุนู†ูŠุŒ ู‡ู„ ุฑุจุญุช ุงู„ุฌุงุฆุฒุฉ ุงู„ูƒุจุฑู‰ ุจู…ู‚ุงุจู„ุชูŠ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ุŒ ุฃู… ู…ุงุฐุงุŸ
17:08
She is badass.
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ุฅู†ู‡ุง ู‚ูˆูŠุฉ.
17:10
Robin Steinberg, the Bail Project, thank you so much.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบุŒ ู…ุดุฑูˆุน ุงู„ูƒูุงู„ุฉุŒ ุดูƒุฑุงู‹ ุฌุฒูŠู„ุงู‹ ู„ูƒ.
17:14
RS: Thanks.
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ุฑูˆุจู† ุดุชุงูŠู†ุจุฑุบ: ุดูƒุฑุงู‹.
17:15
MZ: I'm Manoush Zomorodi,
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ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠ: ุฃู†ุง ู…ุงู†ูˆุด ุฒูˆู…ูˆุฑูˆุฏูŠุŒ
17:17
I'm the new host of the TED Radio Hour, and I'll see you in the spring.
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ุฃู†ุง ุงู„ุถูŠูุฉ ุงู„ุฌุฏูŠุฏุฉ ู„ู€ the TED Radio HourุŒ ูˆุฃุฑุงูƒู… ููŠ ุงู„ุฑุจูŠุน ุงู„ู‚ุงุฏู….
17:20
(Applause)
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(ุชุตููŠู‚)
ุญูˆู„ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน

ุณูŠู‚ุฏู… ู„ูƒ ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ู…ูˆู‚ุน ู…ู‚ุงุทุน ููŠุฏูŠูˆ YouTube ุงู„ู…ููŠุฏุฉ ู„ุชุนู„ู… ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ. ุณุชุฑู‰ ุฏุฑูˆุณ ุงู„ู„ุบุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ูŠุชู… ุชุฏุฑูŠุณู‡ุง ู…ู† ู‚ุจู„ ู…ุฏุฑุณูŠู† ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏุฑุฌุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ู…ู† ุฌู…ูŠุน ุฃู†ุญุงุก ุงู„ุนุงู„ู…. ุงู†ู‚ุฑ ู†ู‚ุฑู‹ุง ู…ุฒุฏูˆุฌู‹ุง ููˆู‚ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุฉ ุงู„ุฅู†ุฌู„ูŠุฒูŠุฉ ุงู„ู…ุนุฑูˆุถุฉ ุนู„ู‰ ูƒู„ ุตูุญุฉ ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู„ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ู…ู† ู‡ู†ุงูƒ. ูŠุชู… ุชู…ุฑูŠุฑ ุงู„ุชุฑุฌู…ุงุช ุจุงู„ุชุฒุงู…ู† ู…ุน ุชุดุบูŠู„ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ. ุฅุฐุง ูƒุงู† ู„ุฏูŠูƒ ุฃูŠ ุชุนู„ูŠู‚ุงุช ุฃูˆ ุทู„ุจุงุช ุŒ ูŠุฑุฌู‰ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ุจู†ุง ุจุงุณุชุฎุฏุงู… ู†ู…ูˆุฐุฌ ุงู„ุงุชุตุงู„ ู‡ุฐุง.

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