Would you sell your kidney for $100,000? | Ada, Ep. 2

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 麗玲 辛

Why is it illegal to sell your organs?

為什麼販賣自己的器官是違法的？

I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

我的意思是，最糟的狀況會是什麼？

你可以先離開沒關係， 我來鎖門就好。

Why don't you head out? I can handle locking up.

Hmph.

嗯。

We close at 5 o’clock, sharp.

我們五點整關門。

I got it, I got it. You get out there and enjoy the sunshine.

沒問題，沒問題。 你出去享受陽光吧。

D-Desmond?

D‧德斯蒙？

Ada! What are you— do you work here?

艾達！你在……你在這裡工作嗎？

Yeah, I just started. What are you, uh, what are you up to?

是啊，才剛開始， 呃，你在做些什麼？

I’m in grad school. I thought you—

我在讀研究所。我以為你——

I’m applying this year, assuming I can find the time.

我今年要申請， 前提是我能抽出時間。

Ahem! So... how’s your mom?

嗯，那……你媽媽好嗎？

Um... she’s—

呃……她——

she’s not doing well actually, she has kidney failure.

她其實不太好，她有腎衰竭。

Oh, no, I’m so sorry.

喔，不，我很遺憾。

She really was my favorite teacher.

她真的是我最喜歡的老師。

Yeah, she had to quit teaching, actually.

是啊，其實她已經 不得不放棄教學了。

Is she— Is she up for visitors?

她是否——方便見客？

Oh, um. You know, she’d love to hear from you,

喔，嗯，她會很高興聽到你的消息，

but she's honestly not well enough for a visit right now.

但，老實說，她的狀況不適合見客。

She needs a kidney transplant to get better at this point.

現在要靠腎臟移植才能讓她好轉。

I would donate to her, but I guess I’m not a match.

我願意捐腎給她，但配對並不成功。

The doctors said her body just wouldn't accept my kidney.

醫生說她的身體無法接受我的腎臟。

Oh! Um, is there anything I— I mean, can I help?

喔，呃，

有什麼我——可以 幫得上忙的地方嗎？

Oh, gosh.

喔，天。

No, actually, I’m just looking for a quiet place to work

不用的，我其實只是 在找個安靜的地方工作，

while I try to figure out what else we can do.

我也會試著想想 還有什麼其他的辦法。

Right, right. Of course.

是的，是的，當然。

Over there. Shout if you need any help.

在那邊。

有什麼需要就叫我。別真的叫——

Well, don’t literally shout or— I mean, you can— I won’t say anything.

是可以啦——我什麼都不會說的。

Oh, uh... okay.

喔，呃……好。

(Reading) “The wait time for a donor kidney is often longer

（閱讀）「等待腎臟移植的時間通常

比病人靠洗腎存活的時間更長。

than a patient can survive on dialysis.

There’s a major shortage of donors,

儘管多數人不需要兩個腎臟， 但捐腎者嚴重不足。」

even though most people don’t need two kidneys.”

Well, I don't know if I would say I don't need two kidneys.

嗯，我不確定我是否會說 我不需要兩個腎臟。

Oh. Actually... my life would be...

喔，其實……我的生活會……

completely... normal.

完全……正常。

Wow. I never would have guessed that.

哇，完全出乎意料。

But still, if Desmond isn’t even a match for his mom,

不過，若德斯蒙 和他媽媽配對都不成功，

what are the chances I would be?

我能配對成功的機會有多高？

Oh, not that much lower.

喔，也沒有低多少嘛。

I could have the perfect kidney for Ms. Shepherd.

有可能我的腎非常適合雪佛老師。

So if I did donate,

所以如果我捐腎，

my medical expenses would be covered, but nothing else?

我不用自己支出醫療開銷，

但就這樣而已嗎？

I wouldn’t get paid for the time off of work? And— what?!

我請假沒有薪水， 這部份要自己承擔？還有——

什麼？

I even have to pay to get to and from the hospital?

往返醫院的錢我還得自己出？

I should be getting paid.

應該要有人付我薪水才對。

Ahem.

嗯。

And who should pay you? I'm a high school teacher, remember?

誰該付你薪水呢？別忘了， 我只是個高中老師。

Ms. Shepherd! Of course I don’t want you to pay me.

雪佛老師，

當然我不是要你來付我薪水。

A lot of people who need kidneys couldn't afford to buy them.

很多需要腎臟的人是買不起腎臟的。

All right, let’s see who pays.

好，咱們來看看是誰在付錢。

(Reading) “US government often spends close to $100,000 per patient

（閱讀）「美國政府通常 會給付每位患者近十萬美金，

covering the cost of dialysis.”

供洗腎用。」

What? That’s more than I make in three years working here.

什麼？我在這裡工作三年 都沒賺那麼多錢。

I wish I could just tell the government: Hey! Time out.

真希望我能對政府說：嘿！暫停。

Pay me that money for my kidney instead. Everybody wins!

改成付錢給我捐腎。大家都得利！

Someone gets a kidney transplant instead of suffering through dialysis,

有人能接受腎臟移植， 取代痛苦的洗腎，

the government just spends the money they would have anyway, and I...

政府本來就要花錢， 只是花在不同的地方，

而我……

I quit my job and focus on becoming a real scholar.

我可以辭職，專心投入 成為真正的學者。

No distractions, no roommates.

沒有干擾，沒有室友。

Just time and space to work on my own ideas.

只有時間和空間來發展 我自己的想法。

And you, Ms. Shepherd,

而你，雪佛老師，

your health is so good after your transplant,

移植後你的健康狀況相當好，

you start volunteering as a firefighter.

因此你開始做義消。

I'm not sure about this.

這點我不太敢肯定。

Oh, don't sell yourself short.

喔，別小看（賤賣）自己。

No, no. I mean I’m worried that if you can sell your kidney,

不，不，我的確會擔心 若賣腎是合法的，

people who are desperate for the money will feel pressure to take the risk.

很需要錢的人會不得不冒這個風險。

But is it really that different from other ways to earn money?

但這和其他的賺錢方式 真的有很大的差別嗎？

Lots of common jobs are more dangerous than kidney donation.

很多普通工作都比捐腎還危險。

And pregnancy has a much higher chance of serious complications,

懷孕引發嚴重併發症的 機率更高許多，

but surrogates can get paid.

但代理孕母可以得到報酬。

And $100,000 is enough money to appeal to lots of people—

而十萬美金足以吸引很多人——

not just desperate ones.

不只是絕望的人。

Besides, everyone who donates has to be approved by

此外，每位捐贈者都必須 取得移植部的核准。

the Ministry of Transplantation.

The ministry also makes sure all donors get the same treatment:

移植部也會確保所有捐贈者 得到相同的待遇：平等的報酬、

equal pay, equal health care, equal information.

平等的健康照護、平等的資訊。

Why should we be okay with selling some parts of our bodies, but not others?

為什麼我們可以接受 販售自己身體的某些部份，

其他部份卻不行。

Wait wait wait— so we’re treating people’s organs like any other asset now?

等等，等等——我們現在要 把人的器官看成像其他資產一樣？

Now, I don't want my organs to be subject to the same rules as a house or a car.

我不希望我的器官會像房子或車子 受制於同一套規則。

Of course not! We have separate rules for organs.

當然不會！我們有 針對器官制定的規則。

It's not like they can be seized to pay a debt or something.

比如不能因為債務而扣押器官。

I don't think that's enough.

我認為這樣還不夠。

It seems to me that there should be some things we never put a price on.

在我看來，有些東西 是永遠不能用價碼來看的。

Maybe, but we put a price on everything in one way or way or another.

也許，但我們多少 會用價碼來衡量一切。

I don't think there's anything morally wrong with compensating someone

我認為讓捐贈器官拯救人命的人 得到補償，在道德層面上並沒有問題。

for donating an organ that will save a life.

My body parts are mine.

我擁有我的身體各部位。

If I want to sell them and live off the proceeds,

若我想賣掉它們，靠這份收益生活，

why shouldn't I be allowed to?

為什麼不讓我做？

It gives me complete freedom to work on what I want to,

這樣我就能自由自在做我喜歡的 研究，不用擔心是否有銷路。

without having to worry about how marketable it is,

or spend most of the time doing other things to pay the bills.

也不用花很多時間 做其他事情來賺錢。

And when the kidney money runs out?

那賣腎的錢用完之後怎麼辦？

I’d like to sell my liver. Eh, a third of my liver.

我想賣我的肝臟，

賣三分之一就好。

It grows back.

它會長回來。

Ugh! They won’t let me take on the risk of liver donation when I’m under pressure

啊！他們不讓我在急需用錢的 情況下承擔捐肝的風險。

for quick cash.

But who are they to decide how much risk I’m comfortable taking?

但他們算老幾，怎麼能決定 我願意承擔多少風險？

Don’t you think they have to draw the line somewhere?

你不認為他們得設下界限嗎？

Presumably you wouldn't want people to sell their hearts

你大概不會希望大家開始賣心

or anything else that would kill them.

或其他賣掉可能會致死的部位吧？

Yeah, but—

是啊，但——

It’s the biggest natural disaster in decades.

這是數十年來最大的自然災害。

People need blood transfusions.

受災者需要輸血。

They need organ transplants.

他們需要器官移植。

But government resources are suddenly stretched way too thin to pay donors.

但政府的資源突然太過吃緊， 無法付錢給捐贈者。

Nobody wants to volunteer to donate what they’re used to being paid for.

以前可以拿錢的，現在不行了， 就沒有人想要捐贈了。

Only people with injured loved ones are willing to donate.

只有家人受傷的人才願意捐贈。

When they’re not a match, they find people in similar situations to swap with.

若家人的器官配對不成功， 他們就會找情況類似的人交換。

Hang on. That could actually work.

等等。這可能真的行得通。

Desmond? Uh, sorry to interrupt you.

德斯蒙？呃，抱歉打斷你。

I don’t want to intrude,

冒昧打擾一下，

but did you know you can donate your kidney to a stranger,

你知不知道你可以捐腎給陌生人，

in exchange for someone else to donate to your mom?

交換條件是另一個人捐腎給你媽媽？

What? No, I didn’t— say that again!

什麼？

不，我沒有……你再說一次。

Oh, you can go directly through one of the registries that pairs people.

喔，你可以直接去找 專門做配對的登記處。

Here, I made a list.

我做了一張列表給你。

Ada, I don’t know what to— thank you.

艾達，我不知道該怎麼……謝謝你。

I mean, really, thank you so much.

真的，非常感謝你。

Uh, tell your mom I said hi.

呃，幫我跟你媽媽問好。

Oh, I will. See you around!

喔，我會的。再會。

(Ms. Shepherd’s voice) I wish Desmond didn’t have to make this sacrifice for me.

（雪佛老師的聲音）我不希望 德斯蒙得要為我做這種犧牲。

Yeah, we do place an unfair burden on patient’s families.

是啊，

我們確實讓病人的家屬 肩負著不公平的重擔。

We’re worried about people donating out of desperation for money,

我們擔心有人因為需要錢， 走投無路而去捐贈器官，

but what about the people who are already donating out of desperation

但那些因為想救家人，走投無路 已經捐出器官的人又怎麼辦？

to save their loved ones lives?

How could we treat kidney donors more like firefighters?

我們能不能用對待消防人員的 方式來對待捐腎者？

Firefighters get paid to risk their bodies for the benefit of others,

消防人員為了他人的利益 冒自己的生命危險，賺取薪酬，

and nobody has a problem with that.

對此，沒有人有意見。

We celebrate them.

我們還讚頌他們。

Maybe instead of being paid cash, kidney donors can get other benefits.

也許可以提供其他好處 給捐腎者，不要用現金。

Subsidize education, free health insurance, public praise.

補助教育、

免費健康保險、公開表揚。

That way, we could compensate donors and encourage altruism at the same time.

這樣，我們既能補償捐贈者， 又能鼓勵利他行為。

But changing the system is really hard, and takes years.

但改變體制真的很難 且要花上數年的時間。

In the meantime, can’t you spare a kidney?

在這之前，你不能 分一個腎給別人嗎？

Aren’t you always wishing you could do something meaningful?

你不是一直希望自己 能做些有意義的事嗎？

Well, you could save someone’s life.

嗯，你可以救別人一命。

But, I just, I don’t know.

但，我只是，我不知道。

Even though rationally, I know the risks are small for someone like me,

雖然就理性的層面來說， 我知道我屬於低風險族群，

there’s still some risk.

但仍然有風險存在。

I know, I know.

我知道，我知道。

We all take risks every day without even thinking about it.

我們的日常生活就充滿風險， 我們卻都沒想過。

But, ugh—

但，呃——

Ada, what are you still doing here? Why is the door still unlocked?

艾達，你怎麼還在這裡？ 為什麼門還沒鎖？

Uh—

呃——

No, don’t answer. Just go.

不，別回答我，你走吧。

I guess I’ll see you later, then?

那，再見囉？