A Reframing of Masculinity, Rooted in Empathy | Gary Barker | TED

Translator: Christina Tang Reviewer: Thomas Tam

This is a hard conversation.

呢場對話好鬼難，

I want to start with that.

我想從呢度開始。

Well, let's step into it.

就噉開始啦。

It was 1977.

喺 1977 年，

Jimmy Carter was president.

占美·卡特擔任總統嗰時，

"Queen" was playing on the radio.

收音機正播放 「Queen」嘅歌曲，

I was having lunch in my high school cafeteria in Houston, Texas,

我喺德州侯斯頓 高中嘅 canteen 食緊午飯，

when we heard a young man shouting at another young man next to him saying,

當我哋聽到一個男仔 同側根另一個男仔大聲講：

“You stole my girlfriend, and I’m going to make you pay.”

「你搶咗我嘅女朋友， 你要付出代價。」

He pulled out a pistol, and as about 100 of us looked on,

大約有 100 人喺旁邊睇住， 佢拔出手槍，

he shot and killed him.

開槍打死咗個情敵。

Two years later,

兩年後，

I was a freshman, big state university,

我係州立大學新生，

Friday night in the dorm room.

週五晚喺宿舍，

Music, beer,

音樂、啤酒、

five young men take a young woman back to one of their rooms

五個男仔將一個女仔 帶返佢哋其中一間房

and force her to have sex.

強迫女仔發生性行為。

There was no investigation at the time.

當時並冇進行調查。

No one called it rape.

冇人認為係強姦。

No one said sexual violence.

冇人講性暴力呢樣嘢。

These two events are what drove me to do this work.

呢兩件事觸發我 從事呢項工作。

I work with survivors of violence around the world.

我為世界各地 暴力倖存者工作。

It was somehow easier to work with survivors in other parts

為啲唔係美國嘅倖存者工作，

than it was to think about this in my own country, the US.

比起喺本土 要考慮嘅問題容易得多。

And in that work, a throughline became clear.

喺嗰項工作中， 條主線容易變得清晰；

And that throughline is manhood.

呢條主線就係男子氣概。

It is an inconvenient and difficult-to-look-at truth,

唔係咁容易 睇到真實嘅面貌，

but the majority of violence in the world is carried out by men.

但喺世界上大多數嘅暴力行為 都係由男性主導。

Since that shooting in my high school,

自從我高中 嗰次槍擊案以來，

at least 800,000 people have died from gun suicide in the US alone.

光喺美國就有至少 80 萬人死喺用槍械自殺。

The vast majority of those, men.

其中絕大多數係男性。

About 600,000 people have died of homicide in the US alone.

淨喺美國大概有 60 萬人死於被殺。

The vast majority of those who did the killing were men.

殺人嘅絕大多數係男性。

One in three women in the world experiences violence from a male partner.

世界上三分一嘅女性 曾遭受男性伴侶暴力對待。

暴力絕大部分係男性所為。

Violence is overwhelmingly male.

Often, the point will come up,

啲人通常會提出 一個觀點：

this must be biology.

生物學嘅原因。

Yes, biology accounts for a small portion of it,

係嘅，生物學 只佔其中小部分，

but the vast majority is how we raise boys.

但絕大部分 係我哋教養男仔嘅方式。

Research that we do --

我哋所做嘅研究——

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Research that we've carried out finds that about --

進行研究嘅發現係，

and we ask this in multiple countries --

喺多個國家 提出一個問題，

about two thirds of men tell us

大概三分二男性 話我哋知，

that during childhood they experienced physical violence from another male.

喺童年曾遭受 男性嘅暴力對待。

You do not get to adult manhood in most of the world without experiencing,

喺世界上大多數地方， 如果冇經歷

及目睹過、同學習男性暴力， 男仔就無可能長大。

witnessing and learning male violence.

當我依家提出呢啲觀點， 經常會發生一啲嘢。

Now, when I bring these points up, several things often happen.

One is someone will say, well, you're attacking men.

有人會話， 你喺度攻擊男性；

Someone will also say, well,

亦都有人會講，

you're apologizing for men as you look at these origins of violence.

當你睇到暴力嘅根源， 正在為男性道歉。

We've got to talk about this.

我哋就講吓呢啲。

We have to understand what are these pathways to men's use of violence

如果你要打破 呢啲暴力嘅循環，

if we're to break these cycles of violence.

必須要了解男性 使用暴力嘅途徑係為咩。

This conversation must be about the version of manhood

呢場對話實際上係向男仔

we literally beat in to boys.

灌輸我哋男人氣概嘅版本。

My organization, Equimundo, does research around the world on these topics.

我嘅組織 Equimundo 喺世界各地對呢啲主題進行研究。

We listen to men, we carry out research

我哋聽男人嘅意見，

together with the UN, country governments, local partners.

同聯合國、各國政府、 及當地合作夥伴一齊進行研究。

We've been measuring over the last 10 to 12 years

喺過去 10 至 12 年間，

where men are on these versions of manhood.

我哋一直衡量男子氣概 喺呢啲講法上嘅表現。

This won't surprise you,

當你睇到啲數字

as we look at some of the numbers.

唔會感到震驚，

About 40 to 50 percent of men in the world

世界上大約有 40% 到 50% 嘅男性

believe in a version of manhood that goes like this:

相信男子氣概係：

I’ve got to outperform the other at all cost.

必須不惜一切代價 超越其他人。

I can’t show that I’m vulnerable or ask for help.

唔能夠表現出脆弱 或者要尋求幫助。

That sex is about conquest, not about intimacy and connection.

性係征服，而唔係 親密同連結嘅關係。

That you’ve got to show that you’re tough all the time.

你必須由始至終 表現出係堅強嘅。

And that violence is a reasonable way to get what you want.

你想要嘅嘢 用暴力獲得係合理嘅。

These are not just empty phrases.

呢啲唔只係廢話，

These are things that men talk about.

都係男人講緊嘅嘢。

They create realities.

佢哋創造緊現實。

The other thing we find is that the more you believe in these norms,

我哋發現一件事， 你越相信呢啲規範，

these ideas about manhood,

有關男子氣概想法，

you are multiple times more likely to do this:

會出現以下行為嘅可能性 會高出幾倍：

to have considered suicide,

曾會考慮自殺，

to use violence against others, to harm yourself

對其他人使用暴力，

and to harm others in multiple ways.

同以多種方式 傷害自己及其他人。

These norms affect us, they cause harm.

呢啲規範影響我哋， 同造成傷害。

Now I realize I'm doing in that last affirmation

我意識到 喺最后一句話度，

something that I said I wasn't going to do in this talk,

講咗啲呢次演講 唔打萛講嘅嘢，

which is women know this.

係女人先會知道。

And when a man explains to women something they already know,

當男人對女人解釋 已經知道嘅嘢，

we have a word for that.

我哋有個詞語。

I'm not going to do that.

我唔會噉樣做。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I'm not going to do that, OK?

我唔會噉做，好啦？

Pull that back.

挽回感情。

What I do want is to get men talking about this.

我真正想要嘅係 等男人討論呢啲嘢。

So call this “mansplaining to men.”

所以稱為「男人 對男人嘅說教」。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Thank you for that,

多謝，

because I don't get a lot of men inviting me to the bar

因為當進行呢啲傾談嘅時候，

when I have these conversations, so thank you.

並冇好多男士邀請我去酒吧，

Thank you for that love.

多謝你哋嘅愛心。

What I do often bring up with men,

由於我經常提起，

and you could see why they find me kind of inconvenient to have around,

美國男性平均 比女性早死六年，

is I'll say, men, we die, on average, six years earlier than women in the US.

男士覺得我喺身邊 有啲麻煩。

Around the rest of the world, pretty similar numbers.

喺世界各地， 都有近似嘅數字。

Why is that?

點解會噉？

Part of that's biology, we know this.

部分係生物原因。

The female body is a better model.

女性身體 係更好嘅模型。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Cheers and applause)

（歡呼聲同拍掌聲）

Let us acknowledge that.

我哋要承認。

The vast majority of this, though, is how we live as men.

但係大多數係 我哋作為男人嘅生活方式，

What we drink, what we smoke, how we drive,

飲啲咩、食啲咩藥、 吸啲咩煙、

the harm we put ourselves in the way of,

點樣開車、 同畀自己造成嘅傷害，

the drugs that we take,

how we literally live as men.

作為男人實際上 係點樣生活嘅。

Of course it interacts with racism, with where you live, with poverty,

當然，同種族、 所居住嘅地方、貧窮有關，

but we're literally dying of manhood.

但我哋正正係 死喺男子氣概度。

Women pick up the pieces when men die early.

當男人早死， 女人就會收拾殘局。

They are the ones who do the care, who carry on households,

佢哋負責照料， 同承擔家庭責任，

who carry on in countries when men die.

男人死咗後， 佢哋喺本國繼續生活。

This affects us all.

呢種情況 影響到所有人。

My daughter, when she was 12, 13, middle school, she said,

當我個女，12 、3 歲 上中學嗰時，

"Dad, girls are talking a lot about empowered womanhood

佢講：「爸爸， 嗰啲女仔經常講賦權女性

and how we can be in the world.

同點喺社會度生活。

But the boys seem kind of lost.

但啲男仔迷惘。

Could you come and give a talk at school about this?"

你可唔可以來學校 講吓呢啲嘢？」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So, for better or worse, I started with this example.

因此，無論點樣， 我都由呢個例子開始。

The boys' eyes were going up,

男仔啲眼都望上面，

"Wait, I never thought about the fact

「等等，我從未諗過，

that I could die on average earlier than women because of all these reasons."

由於所有呢啲原因， 我會比平均女性早死。」

第二日收到 一個男仔寫嘅便條，

Next day I get a letter, a note from one of the boys

who gave it to my daughter to give to me,

佢畀咗我個女畀我，

and I opened it up and it said, “Dear Dr. Barker,

打開便條，上面寫： 「Barker 博士，

thank you for that information.

多謝提供嘅資訊。

I never thought about how we as men are affected by these things.

身為男人從未諗過 會受到呢啲嘢影響。

Only now, I'm worried about dying."

依家我只擔心會死。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Exhales sharply)

（急促噉呼氣）

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I am a developmental psychologist,

我係發展心理學家，

and I should know a little bit more

會知道多啲嘢，

than having a 12-year-old think about his own mortality.

唔單止令到 12 歲細路 諗到死亡。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Trying to get some help for that myself.

呢度我都要尋求一啲幫助。

The point was, he got it.

關鍵係，佢明白咗。

And that is what we need men to think about.

呢啲就係要 男人思考嘅問題。

This pathway is how to step into

呢條路就係我哋身為男人

how we as men are part of this conversation

須要對話嘅地方

and how we benefit from it.

同時可以從中受益。

OK, risk of mansplaining here.

男人說教係有風險。

You know where men are having these conversations if we don't talk to them.

如果我哋唔同男人傾， 佢哋會喺邊度進行對話。

Young men right now are having these conversations online.

依家啲年輕人 正喺網路度進行呢類對話。

There is an explosion of conversations about manhood online.

網路度關於男子氣概嘅討論激增。

Some of them are good.

有啲係好嘅。

How much water to drink,

要飲幾多水，

the exercise you should carry out,

要進行啲咩嘢鍛煉，

how can I get close to somebody I'm interested in.

點先能夠接近我喜歡嘅人。

That’s guys trying to be their best selves.

呢啲就係想成為 最好嘅男人嘅人。

But there’s a huge amount of it that’s fed by an industry

但好大部分係

of misogynist and angry influencers

憎恨女人同憤怒嘅人 所產生嘅言論，

who are getting the attention of young men.

佢哋吸引緊年輕人嘅關注。

Our research finds that 40 to 50 percent of young men in the US

研究發現，有 40% 到 50% 美國年輕男性，

say they trust one or more of those negative voices online.

表示佢哋會相信網路上 一種或多種負面聲音。

Why are they going there?

佢哋為咩會噉樣？

They are lost,

佢哋迷失咗，

they are struggling, they're confused.

佢哋掙扎緊， 佢哋已經迷惘啦。

Other data that we have,

其他掌握嘅數據，

almost 50 percent of men in the US

有近 50% 嘅美國男性

say they think about suicide frequently.

表示佢哋經常考慮自殺。

About two thirds of young men tell us that "no one really knows me."

大約三分二嘅年輕人講 「冇人真正了解我」。

What a call and a cry about loneliness in their lives.

呢啲係對孤獨生活中嘅 呼喚同吶喊。

If we don't reach out, they will continue to find solace online

如果我哋唔伸出援手， 佢哋將繼續透過網路

with the voices that we well know about.

搵佢哋熟識嘅聲音， 尋求安慰。

For young men of color, these issues are even more acute.

對於年輕有色人種來講， 呢啲問題更加嚴重。

Job uncertainties, education, systemic racism.

唔確定嘅工作、教育、 同系統性嘅種族歧視。

One young man that we worked with in Washington, DC,

我哋華盛頓特區 一位年輕同事，

when he was part of a training activity to carry out work in schools,

當佢喺學校 開展培訓活動時，

as we're going through the training of trainers, he said,

我哋正在進行 培訓員嘅培訓，佢講：

"Gary, these ideas of manhood that you talk about,

「Gary，你所講關於 男子氣概嘅想法，

for a white guy like you, it's like the flu.

對你哋白人來講， 就好似係流感，

For me as a Black guy, this is pneumonia."

對於我作為一個黑人來講， 就係肺炎。」

我認為呢個係 值得思考嘅問題，

I think that's an excellent point to think about,

the compassion that we have to step into

當我哋進行呢次講話時，

as we have this conversation.

必須表現出同情心，

And this is where I want to take the last point here.

就係我想講嘅最後一點。

We have to talk about care.

我哋必須講吓關懷，

Care of boys, care about boys,

照顧男仔， 關心啲男仔

care for men,

同照顧男人，

and talk to boys and men about how they care.

並同男孩及男人 談論佢哋點樣關心自已。

Let me talk a little bit more about that.

等我再講多啲呢點。

One of the casualties that we face

喺我介紹嘅嗰種男子氣概度 長大嘅男人，

as men growing up in that version of manhood that I presented to you,

啲創傷係 喺佢自己嘅周圍

is that we make this thick shell around ourselves.

製造咗一個好厚嘅外殼。

We close off our emotions,

佢哋封住自己嘅情緒，

we close ourselves off to the human connection we need.

將佢哋自己需要嘅 人際關係隔絕。

Think about what young men frequently say.

想想年輕人 經常會講嘅話。

I would guess, I don't know that we've asked it in a survey,

係猜嘅，我唔知調查度 有冇呢條問題，

but one of the most frequent things that young men say,

但年輕人最常講嘅 其中一句話就係：

"I don't care."

「我唔在乎。」

"I don't care."

「我唔在乎。」

"I don't care."

「我唔在乎。」

It is our perfect shell, right?

啱嘛﹗呢個係完美外殼。

We close ourselves behind it,

我哋把自己封閉喺後邊，

and it also says, you can't shame me,

表示你唔能夠羞辱我，

you can't question me, you can't hurt me,

你唔能夠質疑同傷害我，

you can't embarrass me because I don't care.

你唔能夠畀我難堪， 因為我唔在乎。

當仲係十零歲𡃁仔， 我講過幾千次。

I said it thousands of times as a teenage boy.

I'm sure my mother would have a bigger number.

肯定我阿媽話 唔止啲個數。

And I know I've said it thousands of times as an adult man as well.

身為成年男人， 我亦已經講咗幾千次。

This is the shield that we put on to close ourselves off.

呢啲就係我哋用來 封閉自己嘅盾牌。

The conversation that we need to step into with boys

我哋須要同男仔進行嘅對話

is not about their mortality,

唔係關於佢哋嘅死亡率，

but it is about how we care.

係佢哋點樣關心自己。

Where I start that conversation

我嘅談話出發點係

is to think about our superpower as humans.

去思考我哋作為人類嘅超能力。

We are the most wired-to-care species on the planet.

喺地球度，我哋係 最需要去關愛嘅物種。

Our neurological systems, our hormonal systems,

我哋嘅神經系統， 同荷爾蒙系統，

are wired to care, to nurture, to love,

都同關懷、養育及愛、

to form attachments with others.

與其他人密切相連。

But it's not automatic.

但唔會係自動系統。

If you don't use it, if you close it off, if you hide,

如果你唔肯用， 關閉同隱藏咗關愛，

you don't get good at it.

你就唔會擅長。

But if you try and if you practice

但如果你嘗試、

and if you learn it, you do get good at it.

練習同學習， 就會擅長關愛系統。

Even the man who seems most cut off from the world can learn it.

即使係睇嚟與世隔絕嘅人 亦都能夠學會呢啲嘢。

I take you back to my high school in 1977.

等我帶你返去 1977 年我高中嘅時候。

The boy who killed the other.

殺死人嗰個男仔。

I didn't tell you this part, but I knew him.

我無講你哋知， 我係識得佢。

Took me years to say I didn't know him well

我花咗好多年才講， 我唔係太了解佢，

because I didn't want to know him well.

因為我唔想深入去了解佢。

He got detention, he bullied, he got detention again,

佢被拘留，佢欺負人， 又再次被拘留，

he didn't do well in school, he got sent away.

佢喺學校表現唔好， 被送走咗。

No one, apparently, reached out to him.

顯然冇人向佢伸出援手。

諗諗當男仔或男人造成傷害時， 我哋經常做啲咩。

Think about what we often do when boys or men cause harm.

If you're young,

如果你仲年輕，

we give you a time out.

我哋畀你一啲時間。

Get a little bit older, we give you a detention.

再大一啲， 我哋就會拘留你。

You step into the workplace,

當你踏入職場，

you do harm, we fire you.

若造成危害， 就會被解僱。

You do something else, we incarcerate you.

你做咗其他嘢， 就會被監禁。

These acts are often necessary to reduce harm,

呢啲做法通常係 減少傷害所必須嘅，

but they cut men off from the connection and humanity that we need,

但係佢哋被切斷咗 人與人及人類本身須要嘅連繫，

even when men have caused harm.

即使係男人造成咗危害。

I am not, in saying this,

我並唔係講

I'm not affirming or believing that we should give any man a free walk

我唔確認或相信應該畀 任何男人，即使造成危害，

for harm that is caused.

可以自由嘅權利。

We must hold men accountable for harm caused.

我哋必須等男人 對佢哋造成嘅危害負責，

No question about that.

係毫無疑問嘅。

We must call out with deep compassion when men do cause harm.

當男人造成危害， 我哋必須以深切同情發出呼喚。

We've also got to call in

我哋也必須號召

to being connected, caring humans.

人類相互連結同充滿關懷。

This is not instead of,

呢個唔係替代，

and I think this is very important to end on,

結束呢一點 好重要嘅係，

this is not instead of the unfinished journey for full equality,

並唔係替代咗一個 未完成嘅旅程——實現地球上

respect and rights that every woman and girl on the planet deserves.

每個女仔同婦女應得到嘅 完全平等、尊重同權利。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

This is an "and" conversation.

呢場係 「連結 」嘅對話。

We must continue that journey and we must talk about manhood.

我哋必須向前， 必須繼續討論男子氣概。

And I also believe that it is this conversation about pulling men into care

我亦相信正係呢種對話 將男性牽引到關懷嘅行列，

that we get them to be allies for gender equality.

等佢哋成為性別平等嘅盟友。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

我最後嘅一點係：

My final point would be this:

look at the face of any three-year-old boy on the planet.

睇吓呢個星球上 任何一個三歲男仔嘅樣。

He was not born into the world to be angry, aggressive,

佢唔係與生俱來 就為咗要憤怒、富攻擊性、

to follow dark threads down the internet.

及追隨網路上黑暗嘅線索。

He comes into the world ready to be loved and to learn how to love.

佢來到呢個世界 就準備被愛同學習點樣去愛。

Take him, talk to him, teach him every day: I care.

照顧佢，跟佢講， 每日教佢「我關心你」。

Thank you.

多謝。

(Applause)

（掌聲）