6 essential lessons for women leaders | Julia Gillard and Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala

翻译人员: Dequan Cai 校对人员: Yip Yan Yeung

Julia Gillard: Ngozi, 10 years ago when I became prime minister of Australia,

朱莉娅·吉拉德（Julia Gillard）:

I assumed that at the start, there would be a strong reaction

恩戈齐（Ngozi），10年前， 当我成为澳大利亚总理时，

我以为一开始， 大众对我成为第一位女首相

to me being the first woman,

but it would abide over time

and then I would be treated the same as every other Prime Minister had been.

一定会有很强烈的反应，

但这种反应会随着时间逐渐减弱，

I was so wrong.

然后我就会受到 与其他总理一样的对待。

That didn't happen.

The longer I governed, the more visible the sexism became.

我大错特错了。

这并没有发生。

I don't want any other woman to be blindsided like that.

我执政的时间越长， 性别歧视就越明显。

我不想让其他女性 像我一样措不及防。

That's why I'm so excited about working with you

to help women get ready to lead in what is still a sexist world.

这就是为什么我对 与你合作感到如此兴奋，

帮助女性做好领导这个 依旧性别歧视的世界的准备。

Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala: I share that sense of excitement.

After I was finance minister of Nigeria,

恩戈齐·奥孔乔-伊韦阿拉 （Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala）：

我也很兴奋。

I was overwhelmed by the number of women who wanted me to be their mentor.

在我担任尼日利亚财政部长之后，

我对想要让我作她们导师的 女性的人数有点不知所措。

It is terrific that aspiring, young women

are keen to learn from those who have gone before,

这些有抱负的年轻女性

but there are still too few female role models,

渴望向前人学习是件极好的事情，

especially women of color.

但是女性楷模仍然太少了，

Now as a result of the work we have done together,

特别是有色人种的女性。

I can offer everyone clear, standout lessons

现在，作为我们一起合作的结果，

that are based not just on my own experience,

我可以给予每个人 清晰、出色的经验。

but on the global research on women and leadership

这些经验不仅基于我自身的经历，

and the candid insights of leading women.

还基于全球对女性和领导力的研究

JG: One of the things to share is that there's joy in being a leader --

以及女性领导者的坦率见解。

吉拉德：我要分享的一件事是， 作为一个领导者，

in having the opportunity to put your values into action.

Emphasizing the positive makes a real difference

有机会将自己的价值观付诸行动， 是一件很快乐的事。

to the power of role modeling.

强调积极的一面会使榜样的力量

If we only focus on the sexist and negative experiences,

发生真正的变化。

如果我们只关注性别歧视 和负面的经历，

women may decide that being a leader sounds so grim they don't want to do it.

女性可能会觉得作为领导者 听起来很灰暗，决定不去做这些。

On the other hand,

if we pretend it's all rosy and easy,

另一方面，

women and girls can be put off

because they decide leadership is only for superwomen

如果我们假装这一切 都很美好和容易，

成熟和年轻女性可能会被吓跑，

who never have any problems.

因为她们认为领导力只适合那些

We all have to get the balance right,

从来没有任何问题的女超人们。

but Ngozi, it's impossible to talk about role models right now

我们都必须掌握好平衡，

但恩戈齐，在谈论 榜样的时候，我必须要

without asking you:

how does it make you feel to see Kamala Harris elected

问你这个问题：

as vice president?

看到卡玛拉·哈里斯（Kamala Harris） 当选为副总统，

NOI: I'm delighted.

It's important to the aspiration of girls and women

你有什么感受？

伊韦阿拉：我很高兴。

that they see role models they can relate to.

对年轻和成熟女性的理想来说，

Vice President-elect Harris is exactly that kind of role model,

可以看到让她们 有所触动的榜样是很重要的。

当选的副总统哈里斯 正是这样的榜样，

particularly for girls and women of color.

And every woman who steps forward

特别是对有色人种的 年轻和成熟女性而言。

makes more space for the women who come next.

每一位勇敢向前的女性

都会为接下来的女性提供更多空间。

JG: Of course both of us know from our own experiences

吉拉德：当然，我们两个人 都知道，从我们自己的经验来看，

that even when women get to the top,

unfortunately, too much time and attention will be spent

即使女性进入高层，

on what they look like rather than what they do and say.

不幸的是，别人太多的 时间和注意力会被花在

Ngozi, for women, is it still all about the hair?

她们的外表上，而不是 她们的行为和言论上。

恩戈齐，对女性来说， 人们是不是只在意我们的发型？

NOI: Certainly, Julia.

I laughed when Hillary Clinton said she envied my dress style,

伊韦阿拉：当然，朱莉娅。

当希拉里·克林顿说她 羡慕我的着装风格时，我笑了，

and particularly my signature scarf,

so I don't need to worry about my hair.

特别是我的标志性围巾，

Like many of our women leaders,

因此我不需要担心我的头发。

I've effectively adopted a uniform.

It's a colorful one,

像我们许多女性领导者一样，

我已经有效地采用了一套着装。

it's African, it's me.

I have developed my own style that I wear every day

一套色彩丰富的着装，

它代表着非洲，代表着我。

and I don't vary from it.

我已经形成了自己的风格， 我每天都穿着它，

That has helped protect me from endless discussion

而且不会有任何变化。

of my appearance.

It's helped me to get people to listen to my words,

这有助于保护我免受对我的外表的

无休止的讨论。

not look at my clothes.

它也让人们听我说的话，

JG: Hillary told us she lost the equivalent

而不是看我穿的衣服，

of 24 full days of campaign time

吉拉德：希拉里告诉我们， 在 2016 年大选中，

in the 2016 election

她每天做头发和化妆的时间

getting her hair and makeup done every day.

相当于损失了

But actually, contemporary problems for women leaders go far deeper

整整 24 天的竞选时间。

但实际上，当代 女性领导者遇到的问题

than anything to do with looks.

I'd better warn you now,

I'm about to use a word many people would find rude.

远比与外表有关的问题更深。

我现在最好警告你，

My favorite funny moment in our travels was discussing "resting bitch face"

我即将使用一个很多人 都会觉得无礼的词。

在我们的旅行中， 我最喜欢的搞笑时刻是

with Prime Minister Erna Solberg of Norway.

与挪威首相埃尔娜·索尔贝格 （Erna Solberg）

The global research shows that if a man comes across as strong, ambitious,

讨论“厌世臭脸” （resting bitch face）。

全球研究表明，如果一个男人 表现得很强势、很有野心，

even self-seeking,

that's fine,

but if a woman does it,

甚至是追名逐利，

then the reactions against her can be as visceral as revulsion

那也没什么，

但如果一个女人这样做，

那么人们对她的反应 就会像谩骂或蔑视

or contempt.

They're pretty mind-bogglingly strong words, aren't they?

一样直白。

它们是很让人 难以置信的字眼，不是吗？

NOI: They certainly are,

and women leaders talk about it intuitively,

伊韦阿拉：它们当然是，

understanding that to be viewed as acceptable as a leader,

女性领导者凭直觉谈论这个问题，

她们明白，要想被认可成为领导者，

they have to stay balanced on a tightrope between strength and empathy.

她们必须在力量和 同情之间保持平衡。

If they come across as too tough,

they're viewed as hard and unlikeable.

如果她们表现得过于强硬，

But if they come across as too soft,

就会被视为强硬和令人讨厌。

they seem to be lacking the backbone needed to lead.

但如果她们表现得太软弱，

JG: The problem is we still all have sexist stereotypes

她们看起来就缺乏领导所需的骨气。

whirring in the back of our brains.

吉拉德：问题是我们都还有 性别歧视的刻板印象

I was portrayed as out of touch because I don't have children.

在我们的脑海里呼呼作响。

I was even compared to a barren cow in the bush,

我被描绘成不合群的形象， 因为我没有孩子。

destined to be killed for hamburger mince.

我甚至被比作灌木丛中 一头不孕不育的牛，

NOI: That's horrible that you faced that stereotype.

注定要被杀死做汉堡包肉馅。

While I was worried that people would think I couldn't do my job

伊韦阿拉：你面临的这种 刻板印象太可怕了。

when my family was young,

当我担心人们会认为 我不能在我家人还小的时候

I enjoyed talking to New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern

做好我的工作时，

about her experience as the second woman ever

我喜欢与新西兰总理 杰辛达·阿德恩（Jacinda Ardern）

to have a child while being a national leader.

讨论她作为有史以来第二位 在担任国家领导人期间

I was very taken by her saying

生育孩子的女性的经历。

she doesn't think she gets the work-life balance right,

她的话让我非常受用，

in the sense that she doesn't like the word "balance,"

她说她不认为自己能 在工作和生活之间取得平衡，

and there's always guilt.

因为她甚至都不喜欢 “平衡 “这个词，

She just makes it work.

而且总是有负罪感，

JG: Ngozi, where are men in this?

她就是这样做成了。

NOI: Hopefully, manning up.

吉拉德：恩戈齐， 男人该扮演什么角色？

Men can more equitably share domestic and care work.

伊韦阿拉：最好能支棱起来。

They can point out sexism when they see it.

男性可以更公平地 分担家务和护理工作。

They can make space for women

他们可以在看到 性别歧视的时候指出来。

and mentor and sponsor them.

Given that men disproportionately still have the power,

他们可以为女性腾出空间，

指导并资助她们。

we won't see change unless they work with us

鉴于男性仍然 不成比例地拥有权力，

to create a world that will be better for men and women.

除非他们与我们合作，

创造一个对男性和女性都更好的 世界，否则我们将看不到任何改变。

JG: Let's talk about the "glass cliff" phenomenon.

If a business or an organization is going well,

吉拉德：让我们来谈谈 “玻璃悬崖” （glass cliff）现象。

then they're likely to appoint a new leader

如果一个企业或组织运营顺利，

who looks a lot like the old one --

that is, a man.

那么他们很可能会任命

But if they are in difficulties,

一个很像旧领导的新领导——

they decide it's time to get someone quite different,

也就是一个男人。

但是，如果他们遇到困难，

and often reach for a woman.

他们就会决定是时候 找一个完全不同的人了，

To take one example,

Christine Lagarde became the first woman to lead the International Monetary Fund

而且往往会找一个女人。

举个例子，

在国际货币基金组织 前总裁因性侵罪被捕后，

when it was in crisis after its former head was arrested for sexual assault.

克里斯蒂娜·拉加德 （Christine Lagarde）

成为了领导该组织的第一位女性， 当时该组织正处于危机之中。

Ngozi, while not as dramatic as that,

you know a bit about glass cliffs too.

恩戈齐，虽然没有那么戏剧化，

NOI: I certainly do.

但你也知道一些 关于玻璃悬崖的事情。

I remember clearly being chosen, as a young woman,

伊韦阿拉：我当然知道。

to lead a very problematic World Bank project in Rwanda.

我清楚地记得， 作为一名年轻女性，

No one else wanted to lead it,

我被选中领导世界银行 在卢旺达的一个问题严重的项目。

lest they fail.

So there was this attitude of "if she pulls it off, it's OK.

没有人愿意领导它，

以免他们失败。

If she fails, then, well, she's just a young African woman

所以有这样一种态度： “如果她成功了，好的。

whose career doesn't matter that much."

如果她失败了，那么， 她只是一个年轻的非洲女性，

From that experience,

她的事业并不那么重要。”

I learned things about myself and leadership,

and the biggest lesson we can share is this:

从那段经历中，

我学到了关于自己和领导力的东西，

if you have a sense of purpose that drives you,

我们可以分享的最大教训是：

then aim high --

如果你有一种驱使你的目标感，

become a leader.

And make room as you go.

那么目标要高——

成为一位领导者。

Former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is fond of saying

并边走边腾出空间。

that there's a special place in hell for women who don't support women.

美国前国务卿马德琳·奥尔布赖特 （Madeleine Albright）

喜欢说，在地狱里有一个特别的地方 给那些不支持女人的女人。

In this world,

we need to be there for each other.

在这个世界上，

JG: There's a bit of good news and bad news here.

我们需要相互扶持。

Certainly the research shows

吉拉德：这里有一些 好消息和坏消息。

that the stereotype about the businesswoman

当然，研究表明，

who makes it to the top

关于女商人

and then stops other women coming through

登上高层，

isn't borne out by the facts.

然后阻止其他女性前进的刻板印象

The constraint seems to be

that organizations think once they've got a woman or two,

并没有得到事实的证实。

限制因素似乎是，

they don't need to worry about gender anymore.

组织认为一旦 他们有了一两个女性，

But we do have to be frank --

他们就不需要再担心性别问题。

women do get pitted against other women

但我们必须坦率地说，

for the limited number of seats at the table.

女性确实会为了有限的席位

We have to be wary of having our solidarity with each other eroded

而与其他女性对立。

我们必须警惕我们彼此之间的团结

by these politics of scarcity.

Instead, we should work together to change the rules

被这些机会的稀缺性所侵蚀。

that keep us at the margins.

相反，我们应该 共同努力，改变那些

NOI: So to summarize, our standout lessons are ...

使我们处于边缘的规则。

Number one, there's no right way to be a woman leader.

伊韦阿拉：所以总结一下， 我们的重点结论是……

Be true to yourself.

第一，成为女性领导者的途径 没有一个正确的答案。

JG: Number two,

we know that women leaders face sexism and stereotyping,

要忠于自己。

吉拉德：第二，

我们知道女性领导者 面临着性别歧视和刻板印象，

so sit down with your mentors,

sponsors, best supporters and friends

因此，请与你的导师、

and war-game.

赞助商、最好的支持者 和朋友坐下来，

How are you going to deal with the gendered moments,

with being judged on your appearance,

演练一番。

你将如何应对性别化的时刻，

with being assumed to be a bit of a bitch

or with your family choices questioned?

如何应对因你的外表 而受到的评判，

如何应对被认为是个婊子

Forewarned is forearmed.

或你的家庭选择受到质疑的情况？

NOI: Number three,

有备而无患。

let everyone you know talking about gender stereotypes

伊韦阿拉：第三，

and debunking them:

让你认识的每个人 都来讨论性别刻板印象，

these false assumptions can't survive being held up to the light of day.

并揭穿它们：

这些错误的假设 在阳光下是无法存活的。

JG: Number four, there are structural barriers too.

Don't wait until you need help balancing work and family life

吉拉德：第四，也有结构性障碍。

不要等到你需要别人的帮助 来平衡工作和家庭生活，

or to be fairly evaluated for promotion.

Be a supporter of systems and changes that aid gender equality

或者需要公正的评价来获得晋升。

要支持有助于 性别平等的制度和变革，

even if you don't personally need them immediately.

即使你个人并不立即需要它们。

NOI: Number five, don't take a backwards step.

Don't shy away from taking up space in the world.

伊韦阿拉：第五，不要倒退。

Don't assume you're too junior or people are too busy.

不要畏惧占据这个世界的空间。

不要认为你的资历太浅或人们太忙。

Reach out, network.

JG: That's great advice,

与人社交，建立网络。

and leads us to the most important lesson of all --

吉拉德：这是一个很好的建议，

go for it.

并把我们引向最重要的一课——

NOI: Yes, go for it.

勇敢去做。

JG: (Laughs) Thank you.

是的，勇敢去做。

NOI: Thank you.

吉拉德：（笑）谢谢。

伊韦阿拉：谢谢。