Why Is China Appointing Judges to Combat Climate Change? | James K. Thornton | TED Countdown

翻译人员: Mia Mi 校对人员: Helen Chang

Imagine a world in which China was an environmental leader.

想象一个中国是环境领导国的世界。

That would be a more hopeful world, wouldn't it?

这将是一个更有希望的世界，不是吗？

When we hear about China,

当我们听说关于中国的报道时，

we usually hear about human rights, trade disputes, toxic pollution.

我们常听说到人权、 贸易纠纷、有害污染。

And I'm not here to dispute the news.

我不是想争论这些新闻。

Instead, what I want to do

而我想做的是

is share, with you, evidence, based on personal experience,

分享你一些基于个人经验的证据，

of where China is leading.

关于中国正在引领世界的证据。

ClientEarth, the environmental law organization that I set up,

“ClientEarth“，我创立的环境保护组织

has a 15-person office in Beijing.

在北京开有一个包含15人的公司，

We work as trusted partners with the Ministry of Environment.

我们和环境局是信任合作伙伴。

We train judges and we train prosecutors in environmental prosecutions.

我们培训环境起诉案件中的 法官和检察官。

Let me share with you how this all began.

下面我给你讲讲这一切是怎么开始的。

In 2014,

2014年，

I was invited to Brussels to meet a group of Chinese officials.

我被邀请到布鲁塞尔会见一群中国官员。

They said they wanted to meet CEOs of Western environmental groups

他们说想见一见西方环保组织的CEO，

because they were looking to encourage more environmental groups in China.

因为他们想鼓励更多本土的环境组织。

Shortly after that, I was invited to Beijing

不久后，我受中国 最高人民法院之邀前往北京。

by the Supreme People's Court, the highest court in the land.

The judges were working on regulations for a new law

法官们正在制定一项新法律法规，

that would allow Chinese environmental NGOs

这将允许中国的非政府环境组织

to sue polluting companies,

去起诉造成污染的企业，

including those owned by the state.

包含国有企业。

They were interested in my advice

他们对我的建议很感兴趣，

because of my extensive environmental litigation experience

因为我在欧洲和美国 有着丰富的环境诉讼经验。

in Europe and in America.

They wanted to know, they said,

他们想知道的是，

what it would take to really make such a system work.

要做什么才能使这样一个体系运行。

I found myself in a conference room in Beijing

我参加了一个北京的会议，

with three justices of the Supreme Court

和最高人民法院的三个法官，

and senior officials of the Ministry of Environment

环保局的高级官员们，

and the People's Congress, which is the Chinese parliament.

以及人大代表。

"Before we get into details," I said, "I want to compliment you.

我说，”在说细节之前，我想赞美你们，

It is amazing that you are writing a law

你们正在撰写法规棒极了，

to allow Chinese environmental groups to sue polluting companies,

撰写法规允许中国民间环境组织 可以起诉造成污染的企业，

including those owned by the state.

甚至包含国有企业。

This is revolutionary."

这是革命性的。“

(Laughter)

（笑声）

The senior judge said, "Mr. Thornton, 'revolutionary' is a big word for us."

一个高级法官回答道：“桑顿先生， 革命对我们来说是一个意义很重大的词。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So we laughed.

然后我们都笑了。

And in that human moment, I realized I could work with these people.

在那个充满人性化的时刻， 我意识到我可以和这些人一起工作。

He said, "Consider it a sea change."

他说：“将这看作一次大改变。”

So for the next three months or so,

所以接下来的三个月左右，

my team and I worked very closely with the judges,

我和我的团队和这些法官紧密协作，

designing recommendations for how to make the system really deliver

设想如何使法规落实，

for citizens enforcing the law.

让公民执行这项法规。

One of the key provisions we worked on involved costs.

我们制定的其中一项关键条款 涉及诉讼费。

Now, it costs money to bring environmental litigation,

如今，提出环境诉讼需要诉讼费，

and what really kills you is,

而且最让人不能接受的是，

if, when you lose, you have to pay the other side's costs,

如果你输了官司， 你还得要负担另一方的费用，

as you do in the UK.

这就和英国一样。

We said this was only going to work for the Chinese environmental groups

我们提出这只在一种情况下奏效，

if, when they won a case,

那就是当中国的环保组织赢得诉讼时，

they had all of their costs paid by the polluters,

所有的花费全部污染的企业承担；

but when they lost, they would not have to pay any of the polluters’ costs.

反之如果他们输了， 则不需要承担对方企业的费用。

Because, win or lose,

因为，无论赢还是输，

they were asserting the interests of the public at large.

他们都是在维护广大群众的利益。

Three months after that, I found myself back in a meeting in Beijing;

在那三个月之后， 我又参加了北京的一场会议。

this time, in the Supreme Court building just off Tiananmen Square.

这一次，是在在天安门广场附近的 最高人民法院里。

I was there with the head of the EU-China Environment Programme.

我和中欧联合环境项目负责人一起。

We were sitting at a white marble table that seemed to be 40 feet long.

我们坐在一张40英尺长的 白色大理石桌子旁，

Across from us were three Supreme Court judges.

对面坐着最高人民法院的法官们。

A senior judge began the meeting

会议由一个高级法官开始，

by saying that they had accepted almost all of our recommendations,

他讲到他们基本采纳了我们的所有意见，

including the key recommendation on costs.

包括关于诉讼费的这一关键意见

So at one stroke,

所以一下子，

the Chinese system became friendlier to citizen environmental groups

中国的法律系统对于 非政府环境保护组织更友好了，

trying to enforce the law

试着执行这些法律，

than many countries.

比其他很多国家都更友好。

The senior judge then said, "What do you want to do next for China?"

这个高级法官接着又说道， “你接下来要为中国做什么？”

Now on my prior trip,

我之前到访中国，

I had learned that the Chinese had just appointed

已经了解到

1,000 environment court judges.

中国刚刚任命了1000 名环境法庭法官。

Now environment judges, specialists, are rare around the world.

如今在全世界，专业的 环境法官已经很少见了。

In Europe, for example, there's just a handful in Scandinavia.

比如说，在欧洲只有 斯堪的纳维亚有寥寥几个。

Their idea was that, by appointing all of these specialist judges,

他们的想法是，通过任命这些环境法官，

they would hear a vast volume of cases

他们可以听取大量的案子，

and raise the quality of the rule of law for the environment in China quickly.

加快提高中国的环境法治的质量。

"So," I said, "you might want to train those judges."

我回答，“你们或许要培训这些法官。”

They then asked us to train the judges.

之后他们便请我们去培训这些法官。

But I had never trained a judge in my life.

但其实我自己未曾培训过法官。

So I said, “Where shall we start?”

所以我问道，“要从哪里开始呢？”

"With us," he said.

他的回答是 “和我们合作。”

"With the Supreme Court?"

“和最高人民法院？”

"Yes."

“是的。”

"But what do you want to learn?"

“那你们要学什么？”

"Well," he said, "we want you to come back

“我们想要你过来，

and give us a seminar on climate litigation,

做一个关于气候诉讼的研讨会，

because you're an expert in that."

因为你是这方面的专家。”

I said, "Gladly, but what's the thought behind your request?"

我又回道，“十分乐意， 你们要求的背后究竟有什么想法？”

And he said,

接着他说，

“We want to know the best climate change cases in the world,

“我们想知道世界上 最好的气候变化诉讼案例，

because we want to decide some of the best climate change cases

因为我们想在中国 判决一些气候变化诉讼的最佳案例。“

here in China."

Now I can assure you that I had never had such a conversation

我可以保证我未曾有过这样的对话，

with the Supreme Court in Washington --

与华盛顿的最高法院没有，

(Laughter)

（笑声）

or even London or Paris.

甚至在伦敦和巴黎都未有过。

Certainly nowhere other than Beijing.

确实是除了中国其他地方都没有。

So we teamed up with the head of the EU-China Environment Programme

所以我们与中欧环境项目负责人合作，

to create a ClientEarth office in Beijing.

在北京创立了 ClientEarth 办公室。

He then organized this training seminar for the Supreme Court,

然后他为最高人民法院 组织了这次培训研讨会，

where we discussed trends in climate litigation around the world.

在会上我们探讨了 世界各地的气候诉讼趋势。

He then organized training sessions

接着他为所有这些专业环境法院法官

for all of those specialist environment court judges.

组织了培训课程。

Now more such judges have been appointed in the meantime,

期间又任命了更多这样的法官，

and as of today,

时至今日，

we've trained more than 1,500 of these judges.

我们已累计培训了1500多个环境法官。

(Applause)

（掌声）

About a year after we started training the judges,

在我们开始培训法官大约一年后，

a prosecutor came to our office and said,

一位检察官来到我们的办公室讲到，

"In that law that you helped write,

“在你协助撰写的法规里，

we, the prosecutors, got the right to sue the Chinese government

我们检察官可以代表民众

on behalf of the people, for environmental matters,

就环境事务有权起诉政府，

and we've never had the right to sue the government before."

在这之前我们是没有这项权力的。”

ClientEarth, on the other hand, sues governments all the time.

另一方面，ClientEarth 一直在起诉政府。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So they were asking us to share with them

他们请我们分享

our experience of suing governments.

我们起诉政府的经验。

This was the Chinese federal prosecutors asking us to train them

也就是说中国的国家级检察官

请我们培训他们如何起诉中国政府。

to sue the Chinese government.

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It is the most amazing request I've ever had.

这是我遇到过最离奇的请求。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So, of course, we started working with them.

当然，我们开始和他们合作。

We've now trained over 1,200 prosecutors in how to bring environmental cases.

我们现在已经对 1,200 多名检察官 进行了如何提起环境案件的培训。

(Applause)

（掌声）

A few months ago, (Laughs)

几个月前（笑声）

we got a letter hand-delivered

我收到了一封亲手送来的信，

from the prosecutors to our Beijing office.

这封信来自 我们在北京办公室的检察官们。

Now what I'm told by my friends in Beijing,

我在北京的朋友告诉我，

ordinarily, the last thing in life you want to get

通常生活中你最不想收到的

is a letter from the prosecutors.

就是来自检察官的信。

This, however, was a thank-you note,

然而这是一封感谢信，

and what it said was "Thank you for your cooperation with us.

写着，感谢你与我们合作。

As a result of cooperating with you,

多亏你的帮助，

we have brought, in 2020 alone,

仅仅2020年一年，

over 80,000 environmental cases."

我们就有超过8万个环境诉讼案件。

Audience: Whoa.

观众：哇。

(Applause)

（掌声）

80,000 cases, and the majority of those cases

而且这8万多案件中，

were brought against government departments.

大部分案件是起诉政府部门。

Now, the prosecutors have set up bureaus all over the country

现在检察官已经在全国各地设立了分局，

to keep pushing out this level of cases

继续推出这一级别的案件，

to raise compliance standards throughout the country.

在全国内提高遵守法规的标准。

Now if this isn't a revolution, it's certainly a sea change.

现在，这即使不能说是一场革命， 也必然是一场翻天覆地的变化。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Now, whenever I talk about China, I'm always asked about coal.

现在，每当我谈到中国时， 总是有人问我煤炭。

China burns more coal than any other country.

中国燃煤量是比其他国家都多的。

We're working on that.

我们也正在解决这个问题。

Following the money, we've been working, for some years,

跟着资金的来源走，

多年来我们与中国的大银行合作。

with the largest banks and financial institutions in China.

The argument we've been making

我们要一直在指出的是，

is that coal is simply a bad investment for them to make.

对他们来说燃煤投资并不好。

Recently, we had a two-day seminar in Beijing

最近，我在北京参加 一个为期两天的研讨会，

for these institutions,

研讨会主要对象是这些机构。

and it was very heartening to see

很高兴看到，

that that argument that coal is a bad investment

燃煤投资不好这一看法，

has now been internalized by these institutions

现在已被这些机构接受，

and taken into their own thinking.

并且纳入他们自己的思考。

When it comes to enforcement,

在执法方面，

the prosecutors have a new, fantastic opportunity.

检察官有一个最新且绝佳的机会。

Recently, a government audit

近日，一个政府审计发现 许多近年新建的燃煤发电站

found that many of the new coal-fired power stations

authorized in recent times in China

是省级官员非法授权修建的，

were authorized illegally by provincial officials

以增加他们的资产负债表。

who wanted to boost their balance sheet.

Because these were illegally authorized,

因为这些是非法授权的，

they are a perfect enforcement target.

这些就是一个完美的执法对象。

Now, another major problem is all of the coal-fired power stations

另一个关键问题是

中国计划修建的所有燃煤发电站，

that Chinese companies have been planning to build

outside China, in Belt and Road development countries.

计划建在一带一路的发展中国家中。

So we've been working, alongside many others,

因此，我们一直在与许多其他国家一起

with the Ministry of Environment,

与环境局合作，

to try and figure out how you stop all of those coal-fired power stations

试着弄清楚如何停建那些 计划中的燃煤发电站。

in the pipeline.

And what is wonderful news is that, in September 2021,

好消息是，在 2021 年 9 月，

President Xi Jinping, at the UN General Assembly,

在联合国大会上，

announced that China would not fund or build

习近平主席宣布了

any more coal-fired power stations outside China.

中国不会再在国外出资或筹建 更多的燃煤发电站。

(Applause)

（掌声）

We also have reason to believe -- and good reason, I think --

我们同样有理由相信，

that China’s own emissions will hit their peaking plateau soon

中国的排放量很快会达到峰值，

and then will seriously decline before 2030.

接着就会在2030年前大幅度下降。

Now, does more need to be done in China?

中国还要做什么吗？

Certainly -- a lot more, and faster,

当然需要更多，更快，

just like in every other country.

其他国家也应如此。

But what I've found heartening

令我振奋的是，

are all of these changes to the system that they've been making in recent years.

他们近年来对这个体系进行的所有改进。

All of these environment court judges,

所有这些环境法庭的法官，

the tens of thousands of cases,

数以万计的案例，

many of them against government departments;

很多都是向政府提出诉讼

the Ministry of Environment getting enhanced powers;

环境局获得更大的权力；

the largest banks and financial institutions

最大的银行和金融机构

realizing that coal is a bad investment;

都意识到投资煤炭不好；

the president promising no more coal outside China.

习主席承诺 不会在国外建造更多的煤电厂。

We work in many countries around the world,

我们在世界各地许多国家都工作过，

but I have never seen the intense focus on systemic change

但从没见过哪个国家

moving a country towards environmental improvements

对改善环境的法律体系变革 给予如此高度的关注，

as I've seen in China.

正如我在中国所看到的。

I'd like to think that I have given you reasons for hope.

我想我有理由给你希望。

China has certainly given me hope.

中国的确给了我希望。

Thank you.

谢谢！

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）