Why Is China Appointing Judges to Combat Climate Change? | James K. Thornton | TED Countdown

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Helen Chang

Imagine a world in which China was an environmental leader.

想像一個由中國 扮演環境領袖的世界。

That would be a more hopeful world, wouldn't it?

那會是個更有希望的世界，對吧？

When we hear about China,

當我們聽到中國時，

we usually hear about human rights, trade disputes, toxic pollution.

通常都是在談人權、

貿易爭議、有毒物汙染。

And I'm not here to dispute the news.

我不是來這裡質疑新聞的。

Instead, what I want to do

反之，我想要做的 是與各位分享證據，

is share, with you, evidence, based on personal experience,

根據個人經歷，說明中國 正在朝著哪個方向前進。

of where China is leading.

ClientEarth, the environmental law organization that I set up,

ClientEarth 是我 設立的環境法律組織，

has a 15-person office in Beijing.

在北京有個十五人的辦公室。

We work as trusted partners with the Ministry of Environment.

我們是生態環境部 所信任的合作夥伴。

We train judges and we train prosecutors in environmental prosecutions.

我們為法官及檢察官做關於

環境訴訟的教育訓練。

Let me share with you how this all began.

讓我跟各位分享這一切的起源。

In 2014,

2014 年，

I was invited to Brussels to meet a group of Chinese officials.

我受邀到布魯塞爾， 會見一些中國官員。

They said they wanted to meet CEOs of Western environmental groups

他們說，他們想要會見 西方環境團體的執行長，

because they were looking to encourage more environmental groups in China.

因為他們希望能鼓勵更多

中國的環境團體。

Shortly after that, I was invited to Beijing

那件事之後沒多久，我受邀到北京，

by the Supreme People's Court, the highest court in the land.

邀請我的是最高人民法院， 即中國地位最高的法庭。

The judges were working on regulations for a new law

法官正在探討新法律的相關規定，

that would allow Chinese environmental NGOs

該法律目的在讓

中國的非營利環境組織

to sue polluting companies,

可以控告製造汙染的企業，

including those owned by the state.

包括國營企業。

They were interested in my advice

他們想聽聽我的建議，因為我在

because of my extensive environmental litigation experience

歐洲及美國都有 豐富的環境訴訟經驗。

in Europe and in America.

They wanted to know, they said,

他們說，他們想知道，

what it would take to really make such a system work.

要怎麼做才能讓這種體制 能夠真正好好運作。

I found myself in a conference room in Beijing

我進到了北京的一間會議室，

with three justices of the Supreme Court

與會的還有三名最高法庭法官，

and senior officials of the Ministry of Environment

以及一些資深官員， 他們來自生態環境部

and the People's Congress, which is the Chinese parliament.

以及人民代表大會， 也就是中國的國會。

"Before we get into details," I said, "I want to compliment you.

「在我們開始談細節之前，」我說：

「我想先向各位表達敬意。

It is amazing that you are writing a law

這是很了不起的事，你們能制訂法律

to allow Chinese environmental groups to sue polluting companies,

讓中國的環境團體可以控告

造成汙染的企業，還包括國營企業。

including those owned by the state.

This is revolutionary."

是革命性的創舉。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

The senior judge said, "Mr. Thornton, 'revolutionary' is a big word for us."

資深法官說：「桑頓先生，

『革命』這個詞我們承受不起。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So we laughed.

於是，我們笑了。

And in that human moment, I realized I could work with these people.

在那人性的時刻，我了解到， 我可以和這些人合作。

He said, "Consider it a sea change."

他說：「把這想成是一個巨變。」

So for the next three months or so,

在接下來的三個月左右，

my team and I worked very closely with the judges,

我和我的團隊與這些法官密切合作，

designing recommendations for how to make the system really deliver

一起設法提出建議， 來讓這個體制能夠真正實現，

for citizens enforcing the law.

讓執行法律的公民能夠運用它。

One of the key provisions we worked on involved costs.

我們探討的其中一條 重要條款與成本有關。

Now, it costs money to bring environmental litigation,

要打環境官司就會有成本，

and what really kills you is,

而最傷的是，

if, when you lose, you have to pay the other side's costs,

如果你輸了，你還要 支付對方的成本，

as you do in the UK.

和英國的做法一樣。

We said this was only going to work for the Chinese environmental groups

我們說，對中國環境團體而言， 這制度的可行的唯一方式是

if, when they won a case,

當它們贏得訴訟時，

they had all of their costs paid by the polluters,

它們所有成本都由 造成汙染的企業來支付，

but when they lost, they would not have to pay any of the polluters’ costs.

但若輸了，它們也不用幫 造成汙染的企業支付任何成本。

Because, win or lose,

因為，不論輸贏，它們都是 在維護整體公眾的利益。

they were asserting the interests of the public at large.

Three months after that, I found myself back in a meeting in Beijing;

三個月之後，我又回來開會了，

this time, in the Supreme Court building just off Tiananmen Square.

這次是在北京的最高法庭大樓， 就在天安門廣場旁邊。

I was there with the head of the EU-China Environment Programme.

和我一起在那裡的是 歐盟—中國環境方案的負責人，

We were sitting at a white marble table that seemed to be 40 feet long.

我們坐在白色大理石桌前， 桌子似乎有四十呎長。

Across from us were three Supreme Court judges.

我們對面坐著三位最高法庭法官。

A senior judge began the meeting

會議一開始，資深法官說，

by saying that they had accepted almost all of our recommendations,

我們的建議，他們幾乎都接受了，

including the key recommendation on costs.

包括關於成本的那個重要建議。

So at one stroke,

這麼一個改變，就讓 中國的體制變得更友善，

the Chinese system became friendlier to citizen environmental groups

對於試圖執行法律的 公民環境團體而言，

trying to enforce the law

than many countries.

它已經比許多國家更友善了。

The senior judge then said, "What do you want to do next for China?"

接著，資深法官說：

「接下來，你想為中國做什麼？」

Now on my prior trip,

上次來的時候，我得知中國剛任命了

I had learned that the Chinese had just appointed

1,000 environment court judges.

一千名環境法庭法官。

Now environment judges, specialists, are rare around the world.

在全世界，環境法官， 專業人士，是很稀有的。

In Europe, for example, there's just a handful in Scandinavia.

比如，在歐洲，只有 在斯堪的那維亞才有幾位。

Their idea was that, by appointing all of these specialist judges,

他們的想法是，任命 所有這些專業法官之後，

就會有大量的案件出現，並快速

they would hear a vast volume of cases

and raise the quality of the rule of law for the environment in China quickly.

為中國的環境提升法規的品質，

"So," I said, "you might want to train those judges."

「那麼，」我說：「你們 應該要訓練那些法官。」

They then asked us to train the judges.

接著，他們請我們去訓練那些法官。

But I had never trained a judge in my life.

但我這輩子從來沒訓練過法官。

So I said, “Where shall we start?”

於是我說：「我們該從何著手？」

"With us," he said.

他說：「從我們開始。」

"With the Supreme Court?"

「從最高法庭開始？」

「是的。」

"Yes."

"But what do you want to learn?"

「但你們想要學什麼？」

"Well," he said, "we want you to come back

「嗯，」他說：「我們希望你再來

and give us a seminar on climate litigation,

辦一場關於氣候訴訟的研討會，

because you're an expert in that."

因為你是那方面的專家。」

I said, "Gladly, but what's the thought behind your request?"

我說：「樂意之至，

但你們這個要求 背後的想法是什麼？」

And he said,

他說：

“We want to know the best climate change cases in the world,

「我們想要知道世界上 最大的氣候變遷案件，

because we want to decide some of the best climate change cases

因為我們想要裁決一些

中國這裡的最大氣候變遷案件。」

here in China."

Now I can assure you that I had never had such a conversation

我可以向各位保證， 華盛頓的最高法庭

with the Supreme Court in Washington --

就從來沒有跟我談過這些——

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

or even London or Paris.

連倫敦或巴黎也沒有過。

Certainly nowhere other than Beijing.

除了北京以外，肯定都沒有。

So we teamed up with the head of the EU-China Environment Programme

我們和歐盟—中國環境 方案的負責人合作，

在北京設立了 ClientEarth 的辦公室。

to create a ClientEarth office in Beijing.

He then organized this training seminar for the Supreme Court,

接著，他安排了這場 為最高法庭舉辦的研討會，

where we discussed trends in climate litigation around the world.

會中我們討論了全世界 氣候訴訟的趨勢。

He then organized training sessions

接著，他安排了

所有專業環境法庭法官的訓練課程。

for all of those specialist environment court judges.

Now more such judges have been appointed in the meantime,

現在有更多這類法官 被任命，截至今天，

and as of today,

we've trained more than 1,500 of these judges.

我們已經訓練了超過 一千五百名這類法官。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

About a year after we started training the judges,

大約在我們開始訓練法官的一年後，

a prosecutor came to our office and said,

一名檢察官來我們的辦公室，說：

"In that law that you helped write,

「因為有你們協助制訂的法律，

we, the prosecutors, got the right to sue the Chinese government

我們檢察官才有權利

代表人民去控告中國政府

on behalf of the people, for environmental matters,

環境相關的問題，

and we've never had the right to sue the government before."

我們以前從來沒有 可以告政府的權利。」

ClientEarth, on the other hand, sues governments all the time.

另一方面，ClientEarth 老是在告政府。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So they were asking us to share with them

所以，他們請我們跟他們分享

our experience of suing governments.

我們告政府的經驗。

This was the Chinese federal prosecutors asking us to train them

這可是中國聯邦檢察官

在請我們訓練他們怎麼告中國政府。

to sue the Chinese government.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It is the most amazing request I've ever had.

這是我所遇過最驚人的請求。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So, of course, we started working with them.

當然，我們就開始與他們合作。

We've now trained over 1,200 prosecutors in how to bring environmental cases.

至今我們已經訓練了 一千兩百名檢察官

教他們提出環境訴訟案。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

A few months ago, (Laughs)

幾個月前，（笑）

we got a letter hand-delivered

檢察官請專人送了一封信 到我們的北京辦公室。

from the prosecutors to our Beijing office.

Now what I'm told by my friends in Beijing,

我在北京的朋友告訴我，一般來說，

ordinarily, the last thing in life you want to get

人生中最不想遇到的事，

is a letter from the prosecutors.

就是收到檢察官的信。

This, however, was a thank-you note,

不過，這是封感謝信，

and what it said was "Thank you for your cooperation with us.

內容是：「謝謝你們和我們合作。

As a result of cooperating with you,

因為和你們合作，

we have brought, in 2020 alone,

光是在 2020 年，我們就提出了

over 80,000 environmental cases."

超過八萬件環境訴訟案。」

Audience: Whoa.

觀眾：哇。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

80,000 cases, and the majority of those cases

八萬件訴訟案，且大部分

were brought against government departments.

對象都是政府部門。

Now, the prosecutors have set up bureaus all over the country

檢察官已經在全國各地設立局處，

to keep pushing out this level of cases

持續推動這個層級的訴訟案，

to raise compliance standards throughout the country.

在全國各地建立遵循標準。

Now if this isn't a revolution, it's certainly a sea change.

如果這不算是革命，

那至少肯定是巨變。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Now, whenever I talk about China, I'm always asked about coal.

每當我談到中國時， 總會有人問到煤。

China burns more coal than any other country.

中國燃燒的煤比任何其他國家都多。

We're working on that.

我們在想辦法。

Following the money, we've been working, for some years,

我們跟著錢走，已經花了數年時間

with the largest banks and financial institutions in China.

和中國最大的銀行及金融機構合作。

The argument we've been making

我們提出的論點是，

is that coal is simply a bad investment for them to make.

煤對它們來說是個不好的投資。

Recently, we had a two-day seminar in Beijing

不久前，我們在北京 辦了兩天的研討會，

for these institutions,

對象是這些機構，

and it was very heartening to see

很振奮的是，能夠看到

that that argument that coal is a bad investment

「煤是不好的投資」這個論點

has now been internalized by these institutions

已經被這些機構內化了，

and taken into their own thinking.

它們自己在思考時 都有將它考量進去。

When it comes to enforcement,

在執法方面，

the prosecutors have a new, fantastic opportunity.

這些檢察官有個很棒的新機會。

Recently, a government audit

最近，一次政府審計

found that many of the new coal-fired power stations

發現中國近期授權核准的

authorized in recent times in China

許多新燃煤發電廠

were authorized illegally by provincial officials

都是由省官員非法授權的，

who wanted to boost their balance sheet.

因為這些官員想讓 資產負債表好看一點。

Because these were illegally authorized,

因為這些電廠的授權不合法，

they are a perfect enforcement target.

它們就成了執法的完美目標。

Now, another major problem is all of the coal-fired power stations

另一個重大問題是， 中國企業一直打算要在

that Chinese companies have been planning to build

中國以外的地方建造的 各個燃煤發電廠，

outside China, in Belt and Road development countries.

在一帶一路開發國家 建造的那些發電廠。

So we've been working, alongside many others,

所以，我們一直在 和許多其他夥伴合作，

with the Ministry of Environment,

包括生態環境部，

to try and figure out how you stop all of those coal-fired power stations

試圖想辦法阻止所有這些

in the pipeline.

燃煤發電廠，

And what is wonderful news is that, in September 2021,

好消息是，2021 年九月，

President Xi Jinping, at the UN General Assembly,

在聯合國大會上，習近平主席

announced that China would not fund or build

宣佈中國將不會再資助或建造

any more coal-fired power stations outside China.

更多在中國以外的燃煤發電廠。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

We also have reason to believe -- and good reason, I think --

我們也有理由相信—— 我覺得是很好的理由——

that China’s own emissions will hit their peaking plateau soon

中國自己本身的排放量 也很快會達頂，

and then will seriously decline before 2030.

接著，在 2030 年之前 就會顯著下降。

Now, does more need to be done in China?

在中國，還需要做更多嗎？

Certainly -- a lot more, and faster,

肯定需要——非常多，且要更快，

just like in every other country.

所有其他國家也一樣。

But what I've found heartening

但，讓我很振奮的

are all of these changes to the system that they've been making in recent years.

是近年來他們在體制上 所做的各種改變。

All of these environment court judges,

所有這些環境法庭法官，

the tens of thousands of cases,

數萬件訴訟案，當中許多 還是針對政府部門；

many of them against government departments;

the Ministry of Environment getting enhanced powers;

生態環境部有更增強的權力；

the largest banks and financial institutions

最大的銀行及金融機構

realizing that coal is a bad investment;

了解到煤是不好的投資；

the president promising no more coal outside China.

主席保證在中國以外的 地方不再推動煤。

We work in many countries around the world,

我們的工作範圍 遍及全世界許多國家，

but I have never seen the intense focus on systemic change

但我從來沒有見過任何國家 在體制改變上的專注投入，

moving a country towards environmental improvements

讓國家朝環境改善前進，

as I've seen in China.

能做得比中國好。

I'd like to think that I have given you reasons for hope.

我想相信，

我剛給了各位可以保持希望的理由。

China has certainly given me hope.

中國肯定是給了我希望。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Cheers and applause)

（歡呼及掌聲）