Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Why children of immigrants experience guilt -- and strategies to cope | TED

Transcriber:

翻译人员: Ingrid Xu 校对人员: Yan Li Xiao

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, Sahaj, welcome, thanks for joining us.

Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Thank you for having me,

克洛伊·莎莎·布若克斯 （Cloe Shasha Brooks）： 你好，萨哈之，欢迎你加入我们。

I'm so excited to be here.

CSB: I'm so excited to be speaking with you.

萨哈之·卡尔·蔻丽 （Sahaj Kaur Kohli：感谢你的邀请，

我很高兴来到这里。

So you are a mental health therapist in training

克洛伊：我很高兴能和你谈谈。

and the founder of Brown Girl Therapy,

你是一位正在培训中 的心理健康治疗师，

a community you started to allow the children of immigrants

也是 ‘布朗女孩疗法’ 的创始人，

to speak openly about mental health issues.

这是你为了让移民家庭的孩子们

And one theme I've noticed in the content you share

能够坦诚地讨论心理健康问题 而创始的协会。

is the guilt frequently experienced by people with immigrant parents.

我发现有一个主题 贯穿了你所分享的内容，

Can you talk more about that guilt?

那就是移民家庭的孩子们 时常感到的愧疚。

SKK: There's definitely a relationship

你能再和我们聊聊这种愧疚吗？

between being a child of immigrant parents living in the West

萨哈之：毫无疑问，

and experiencing guilt.

孩子的父母移民到西方 与他感到的愧疚

Children of immigrants are often straddling two cultures

是有关联的。

known as bicultural straddling.

移民家庭的孩子们 时常横跨两种文化，

And there's often this expectation

to make our immigrant parents' sacrifices and choices

这被称作 ‘双文化横跨’。

他们经常期盼

for coming to this country worth it.

自己能够使父母移民的牺牲，

Many children of immigrants feel chronic sense of guilt

与来到这个国家的决定值得。

for letting their parents down,

许多移民家庭的孩子们

for not being enough, for being too American,

都会因为认为自己辜负了父母、

for seeming ungrateful.

不够好、太美国化、

There’s also this sense of a thriver’s guilt

or this guilt of growing, healing,

或好像对父母不知感恩 而长期感到愧疚。

他们也有种 ‘成长者’ 的愧疚，

accessing resources and opportunities that maybe our parents didn't have

这是一种因为自己能够成长、治愈，

or our family and other parts of the world don't have access to.

并且拥有父母、家人、或世界其他 部分的人们从未得到过的资源和机会，

So many children of immigrants may have grown up being responsible

而感到的愧疚。

for their parents as well.

所以，许多移民家庭的孩子们

If we think about an immigrant's journey to the West,

都带着对父母的责任长大。

they may not speak English well,

我们来想想一位移民 来到西方的旅程，

so a lot of children of immigrants may act as a translator,

他的英语可能不怎么好，

may help pay the bills,

所以很多移民家庭的孩子们 会为父母翻译、

may help take care of younger siblings,

帮忙结账、或照顾弟弟妹妹，

so caretaking,

and we know that immigrating and immigration

总之，这些孩子们需要照顾别人。

can lead to a lot of family and generational conflict,

我们知道，移民这件事

as everyone in the family is navigating their own acculturation journey,

可能会带来给家庭和 一代代家人之间带来矛盾，

这是因为每个人都要 在自己文化适应的旅途中确认方向、

creating a sense of belonging in the host country.

So a lot of children of immigrants are often mediators

在东道国创造归属感，

for cultural conflict within their family.

因此，许多移民家庭的孩子们 在家里起了文化矛盾时，

This responsibility for the well-being of our parents,

时常充当和事佬。

whether it's explicitly or implicitly stated,

这种对父母幸福安康的责任，

can be reinforced over the years as a sense of obligation.

不管是明确的或是含蓄的，

And it's exhausting.

会被时间加深成义务。

You know, children of immigrants are often internalizing these beliefs

这使人精疲力竭。

that they have to be a certain way,

你知道，移民家庭的孩子们 打心底就认为

that they have to act a certain way,

他们必须保持这种身份，

and then they're out in the world feeling like they're also not enough

他们的行为必须符合这种身份，

in the Western sense of the word.

他们融入世界之后， 发现自己都没有

And so it's really important, you know,

I think in a lot of immigrant communities

进入西方意义的世界。

and for a lot of children of immigrants,

这真的很重要，

we don't talk enough about questioning that guilt,

我认为在很多移民社区

对于许多移民后代，

questioning where it comes from and questioning why it's there.

关于质疑这种愧疚感 我们谈得还不够多，

对于愧疚的来源和原因同样如此。

CSB: Yeah, so interesting.

It looks like we have a question from the audience,

克洛伊：是啊，很有意思。

"Is long term guilt ever justified or beneficial?"

就好像听众提了一个问题，

“长期的愧疚感 是合理或有益的吗？”

SKK: So, the thing we know about guilt is that there is healthy guilt, right?

Healthy guilt alerts us to our morality,

萨哈吉：所以，这个我们知道关于 愧疚感它是一个健康的愧疚，对吧？

to the pain and hurt that we might be causing to other people,

健康的愧疚感提醒 我们注意我们的道德，

to the social and cultural standards that we may have crossed.

对于我们可能给其他人 造成的痛苦和伤害，

And it can help direct our behavior.

对于我们可能已经横跨的 社会和文化的标准。

If we're really sitting with it, we can understand,

而它也可以帮助管理我们的行为。

"OK, you know what?

I didn't want to hurt that person" or "I didn't want to do that thing."

如果我们真的坐在一起， 我们可以理解，

“OK，你知道吗？

So that can help you then decide to make amends,

我不想伤害那个人” 或者 “我不想做那件事。”

to change your behavior, to apologize.

如此，它可以帮你选择做出改修，

But then we have unhealthy guilt

where maybe the guilt that we're feeling is adopted through values

去改变你的行为，去抱歉。

但是，我们有不健康的内疚，

也许我们所感受到的内疚 是通过我们并不必然

that we don't necessarily hold

or boundaries that we don't necessarily want to hold.

So long-term guilt --

持有的价值观来实现的，

或我们不一定想要持有的界限。

guilt is not necessarily a negative emotion.

It's really important to understand that differentiation,

所以长期内疚感 --

内疚内疚并不一定是 一种负面情绪。

that guilt is something that can really guide us.

了解这种差异是非常重要，

And like any emotion, it's telling us something

内疚是一个真正可以 指引我们的东西。

and we must listen to it before we decide how to handle it.

而就像任何其他情感， 它在告诉我们一件东西，

CSB: Yeah.

和在我们决定如何处理之前， 我们必须听从它。

And in the unhealthy situation,

what are some helpful strategies for dealing with it?

克洛伊：是的。

I suspect it will be relevant to many demographics of people.

及在不健康的情况下，

有什么有用的策略来处理它呢？

SKK: So, you know,

我猜测它会对很多族群的人有关。

the thing about chronic guilt is that it can force us to be small.

萨哈之：你知道，

It can tell us we must stay within the box.

关于长期内疚的事情是 它可以迫使我们变小。

We shouldn't take up a lot of space.

它可以告诉我们必须待在盒子里。

It kind of encourages us to distrust our own needs and wants,

我们不应该占用很多空间。

它有点鼓励我们不要再 信任我们自己的需要和需求，

especially if they differ from the people around us

and our immigrant parents.

特别是如果它们跟我们周边的人和

So some strategies for adopting and dealing with guilt:

我们的移民父母不一样的时候。

It's really important to question the guilt.

所以，采取和处理内疚的一些策略：

It's important to identify your parents's beliefs and values

质疑有罪是很重要的。

and then explore your own and see how they overlap.

识别你父母的信仰和价值观， 然后探索你自己的，

Ask yourself, "How can I lovingly detach

看看它们是如何重叠的， 这一点很重要。

from the assumption or belief my parent has."

问一下你自己， “我可以怎么样亲切的扯开

Ask yourself

if you are internalizing something that doesn't actually speak true to you.

我跟我父母的假设或者信仰呢。”

问一下你自己，

Remind yourself also

你是否在内化一些对你来说 并不真实的东西。

that your parents are often doing the best they can

with what they know and what they were taught.

并提醒自己

你的父母

And with that, you have to have a lot of self-compassion

在他们所拥有和被教到 的知识努力做到最好了。

to know that you're figuring out how to deal with something

而有了这个，为了懂得你正在 了解如何处理某件

that maybe no one in your family has dealt with.

没有一个家属可能 处理过的事情的时候，

You were never taught how to deal with.

So it's really important to show up with a lot of self compassion.

你必须要有很多自我同情

你从来没有被教过该怎么样处理。

And then the last thing that really comes to mind here

因此，表现出大量的 自我同情心非常重要。

is to accept that guilt may always be an emotion

然后在这里想到的最后一件事

that you have to navigate.

It's a warning light.

就是接受内疚感有可能是一个情感

I think a lot of children of immigrants look to guilt and feel guilt

你永远需要驾驭。

它是一个警告灯。

and then say, "Oh, my gosh,

我觉得很多移民父母的孩子 看着内疚感和感受到内疚

this is a sign that I need to turn around and not do the thing I want to do

并会说，“我的天啊，

or continue on the path I’m about to take.”

这是一个迹象我需要反转和 不再做我想做的事

And instead, I say, sit with the guilt,

或者继续走在我想走的路上。”

see it as a warning sign

and try to understand where it's really coming from.

而我说，与其坐在内疚里，

不如把它看作像一个警告

CSB: Yeah, that's incredibly helpful.

和尝试着了解它到底从哪里来的。

We have a question from the audience.

克洛伊：是的，那特别有帮助力。

"What coping mechanisms

would you recommend for someone dealing with guilt?"

我们有一个来自于公众的问题。

“你会推荐有什么处理方式

SKK: So all of the things,

给一个带有内疚感的人呢？”

some of the coping mechanisms I already named, you know,

萨哈之：所有的东西，

it's really important to reauthor the narrative that you've been taught

我已经提到了的 一些应对机制，你知道的，

that things are binary.

重新编写你被教导事物 叙述真的很重要，

Something that I often see when people are dealing with guilt

像事情是由两部分组成的。

is that guilt is bad.

某事我经常看到 每当人们处理内疚时，

Again, guilt is not necessarily bad.

It's just an emotion that is trying to tell you something.

就是内疚感是不好的。

再次，内疚感不一定是坏事。

So a lot of children of immigrants

这只是一种情绪， 试图告诉你一些事情。

and a lot of people in this country

所以很多移民父母的孩子

think of feelings as good or bad,

和很多这个国家的人

think of themselves as right or wrong,

this or that, all or nothing.

认为情感只有好或坏，

And I really want to encourage you to question that narrative.

认为他们自己只有好或坏，

这个或那个，全有或全无。

You know, two things can be true at the same time.

而我特别想鼓励让你怀疑这个陈述。

You can pursue something that makes you really happy,

你知道，两个事情可以同时是真的。

something that is inherently good for you, healthy for you,

你可以追求一个让你特别开心的东西，

and you can still feel guilt.

本质上对你有益，对你健康的东西，

And so to that, I just really want to drive home the point

而你也可能会感受到内疚。

that guilt is not necessarily a bad emotion.

因此，我真的很想重复这一点，

And it's OK if you are always trying to navigate it.

就是内疚感并不一定是一个坏的感情。

并且如果你总是试图导航它， 那也没关系。

CSB: You know, one thing that I've also seen you talk about

is how values,

克洛伊：你知道吗， 另一件我看到过你说的事

getting clear on our values, helps us manage our guilt.

就是我们的价值观，

Can you share more about that?

明确懂得我们的价值观有助于 管理我们的内疚。

SKK: Absolutely.

Getting clear on your values can definitely help with managing guilt.

你可以多讲一下吗？

萨哈之：当然可以。

It's important to get clear on your values

明确懂得我们的价值观的确 有助于管理我们的内疚。

instead of assuming that your values are exactly the same

让你的价值观变得明确这一点很重要，

as the people around you.

而不是假设你的价值观和

And when you're not clear on what's important to you,

it's really easy to follow into a pattern of what's expected of you,

你周边的人是一模一样。

并且当你不清楚什么对你重要时，

what other people want from you.

你会很容易跟随一个代表

And this can lead to a lot of people-pleasing behaviors,

人家对你的希望的模型。

it can lead to seeking approval,

而这会通常引发很多讨人喜欢的行为，

maybe keeping the peace because that's what you've been taught,

它可能导致寻求批准，

but it doesn't necessarily lead to personal fulfillment.

有可能是保持现存的和平， 因为那是你被教导的，

So to get clear on your values,

但它并不一定不代表个人成就感。

really spend some time reflecting on questions like what's important to you,

所以为了明确得到你自己的价值观，

when have you been the happiest?

真的花一些时间思考一些问题， 像是什么对你很重要，

And think about the times that you've been the happiest,

你是什么时候最快乐的？

and then think about values that were being honored during that time.

想想你最快乐的时光，

When were you the most unhappy?

然后想一下那个时候被庆祝的价值观。

And think about values that might have been suppressed or crossed.

你是什么时候最不快乐的？

We have to think about living our lives with value-driven choices.

并考虑可能被压制或越过的价值观。

But that's really hard to understand if your values don't overlap

我们必须考虑用价值 驱动的选择来过我们的生活。

with the people you love.

但如果你的价值观不跟 你爱的人的重叠，

And so what I hear from children of immigrants a lot

is "My values aren't the same. So then what do I do?"

那真的很难理解。

所以我通常会从移民父母的孩子们听到

And so to that, I say try to find ways to communicate to your parents,

“我的价值观并不一样。 我该怎么做？”

a lot of the assumptions and beliefs and values our parents have,

因此，我说试着想办法 与你的父母沟通，

我们父母的很多假设， 信念和价值观，

some of them may be rooted in fear.

If they're not necessarily happy with a career choice that you're making,

有些可能是来自于恐惧感。

如果他们不一定对你的职业 选择感到满意，

but that aligns with your values,

try to address the fear that's coming up.

但却跟你的价值观碰上，

The fear that they have

that you won't be secure when they're not here,

试着解决即将出现的恐惧。

that you won't be able to make enough money,

他们的恐惧感就是

他们之后不在使得你变得不安全，

that you won't be satisfied for years to come,

and try to address those fears

你不能够赚足够钱，

to communicate your values to your parents.

未来几年你都不会满足，

CSB: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense,

所以试着解决那些恐惧

为了跟你的父母交流你的价值观。

especially with different cultures and figuring all that out.

克洛伊： 是的，你说的很有道理，

So we have another question from the audience.

特别是跟不同的文化和 为了弄清楚所有这些。

Let's bring that one up.

我们有另外一个来自于公众的问题。

"How do you recommend that people address feelings of guilt

让我们念一下吧。

tied to someone who is deceased?"

“你如何建议人们解决

From John Henderson.

与死者有关的内疚感呢？”

SKK: That's such a great question.

You know what I see in the immigrant community

来自于约翰·亨德森 （John Henderson）。

萨哈之：那是个特别好的问题。

and with children of immigrants that may be really relevant here

你知道我在移民社区和

is that guilt is often tied to grief.

移民父母的孩子们身上看到的 可能与这里真正相关的东西

You know, the guilt of feeling misunderstood,

就是内疚感经常与悲哀相关。

the guilt of feeling like you can't do the things that you want,

你知道，被误解的罪恶感，

the guilt of feeling like you're not enough

感觉自己不能做你想做的事的负罪感，

are tied to a grief of something that you didn't have.

感觉自己并不足够的内疚感

Maybe it wasn't the support from your parents.

都是跟你没有的东西的悲伤有关。

Maybe it wasn't the relationship that you really wanted.

有可能是没有来自于你父母的支持。

So to that, you know, for navigating that,

有可能它不是你真正想要的情感关系。

I would say try to get really clear on what it is you feel guilty about

所以，你知道，为了驾驭它，

and what it is that you're grieving and how you can separate those two.

我会说试着弄清楚是什么你会感到内疚

And I would really recommend seeking community and support for this

和你在为什么悲伤以及 如何将这两者分开。

and also therapy.

并且我会特别推荐寻求社区和支持，

CSB: Yeah, absolutely.

But we've come almost to the end,

以及治疗。

if you could just say one thing that you think would be really important

克洛伊：的确是的。

但我们已经接近尾声了，

for people to remember when they're experiencing guilt,

如果你可以再说一件 你觉得特别重要的事，

what would it be?

每当他们经历内疚感 大家应该记得的话，

SKK: You know, I'm going to drive home the same point,

那会是什么呢？

it is that guilt is a warning sign.

萨哈之：你知道吗， 我也是准备重复同样的点，

Sit with it, identify your values and standards

that are being crossed when you feel guilt,

就是内疚感是一个警告标志。

坐下来，找出当你感到内疚时

identify if they are your values and standards

被忽视的价值观和标准，

or someone else's that you have internalized

识别如果它们是你的价值观和标准，

and then try to sit with what's important to you in that moment

或者你已经内化的其他人，

before you decide what your next step should be.

然后再试着明白，在那个瞬间， 是什么对你重要，

CSB: Fantastic.

Well, thank you so much, Sahaj, for sharing all this,

在你决定下一步应该做什么之前。

and for your wisdom.

克洛伊：太棒了。

嗯，非常感谢你，萨哈之， 跟我们分享这一切

Take care, thanks for joining us.

SKK: Thank you so much for having me.

和你的智慧 。

大家保重，谢谢你参与我们。

萨哈之：谢谢你邀请我。