Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Why children of immigrants experience guilt -- and strategies to cope | TED

Transcriber:

翻訳: Yoshiaki Yamagami 校正: Kumi Kaku

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Hello, Sahaj, welcome, thanks for joining us.

Sahaj Kaur Kohli: Thank you for having me,

（クロエ・シャシャ・ブルックス） サハジ 今日はよろしくお願いします

I'm so excited to be here.

CSB: I'm so excited to be speaking with you.

（サハジ・コウル・コーリ） お招きありがとうございます

So you are a mental health therapist in training

（クロエ）お話 楽しみにしています

and the founder of Brown Girl Therapy,

あなたは セラピストの卵で “ブラウン・ガール・セラピー”創設者

a community you started to allow the children of immigrants

to speak openly about mental health issues.

移民の子が心の問題を 打ち明けられるコミュニティーですね

And one theme I've noticed in the content you share

is the guilt frequently experienced by people with immigrant parents.

私が着目したのは 移民の子が たびたび罪悪感を持つという話です

Can you talk more about that guilt?

SKK: There's definitely a relationship

この罪悪感というのは？

between being a child of immigrant parents living in the West

（サハジ）西洋に移住した人の子は

and experiencing guilt.

確実に ある種の罪悪感を持っています

Children of immigrants are often straddling two cultures

known as bicultural straddling.

移民の子は ２つの文化に またがって立っている状態です

And there's often this expectation

to make our immigrant parents' sacrifices and choices

そして 親が犠牲を払って 移住を選んだ甲斐はあったと

for coming to this country worth it.

Many children of immigrants feel chronic sense of guilt

証明したい気持ちがあります

for letting their parents down,

移民の子が 慢性的に罪悪感を持つのは

for not being enough, for being too American,

親を失望させた 不出来 米国かぶれ 感謝不足などと自分を責めるからです

for seeming ungrateful.

There’s also this sense of a thriver’s guilt

or this guilt of growing, healing,

恵まれていることへの 罪の意識もあります

accessing resources and opportunities that maybe our parents didn't have

成長や癒やしの機会を得たことや

or our family and other parts of the world don't have access to.

親たちが使えなかったリソースを 親戚や他の人たちを尻目に

So many children of immigrants may have grown up being responsible

利用できることを 申し訳なく思うのです

for their parents as well.

彼らは 親の代わりに 責任を担い続けてもいます

If we think about an immigrant's journey to the West,

they may not speak English well,

移民一世の親は 英語が あまり得意ではなかったりして

so a lot of children of immigrants may act as a translator,

may help pay the bills,

子どもが通訳をすることも あるでしょう

may help take care of younger siblings,

他に 働いて家計を助けたり 弟妹の面倒を見たりもします

so caretaking,

and we know that immigrating and immigration

can lead to a lot of family and generational conflict,

移住が 家庭内や世代間の摩擦に つながることも分かっています

as everyone in the family is navigating their own acculturation journey,

家族のメンバーそれぞれで 文化的に適応し

creating a sense of belonging in the host country.

So a lot of children of immigrants are often mediators

移住先の国になじむ過程が 異なるからです

for cultural conflict within their family.

つまり 移民の子たちは

This responsibility for the well-being of our parents,

家庭内で 文化的摩擦を和らげる 緩衝役になっています

whether it's explicitly or implicitly stated,

そう明言されなくとも 親の生活の質は彼ら次第なので

can be reinforced over the years as a sense of obligation.

And it's exhausting.

その責任感が強まり 義務感になります

You know, children of immigrants are often internalizing these beliefs

それって疲れますよね

that they have to be a certain way,

移民の子たちは “こうあるべき”とか

that they have to act a certain way,

“こう振る舞うべき”などと 思い込みがちです

and then they're out in the world feeling like they're also not enough

in the Western sense of the word.

同時に 西洋的な意味で 自分は出来が悪いと 感じながら過ごしています

And so it's really important, you know,

I think in a lot of immigrant communities

and for a lot of children of immigrants,

そこで 大事なことが１つ

we don't talk enough about questioning that guilt,

移民のコミュニティーや 移民の子の多くは

この罪悪感と向き合っていません

questioning where it comes from and questioning why it's there.

罪悪感を持つに至った経緯を まずは疑問視することです

CSB: Yeah, so interesting.

It looks like we have a question from the audience,

（クロエ）なるほど 興味深いですね

"Is long term guilt ever justified or beneficial?"

ここで視聴者からの質問です

“長期的な罪悪感が 役に立つことはある？”

SKK: So, the thing we know about guilt is that there is healthy guilt, right?

Healthy guilt alerts us to our morality,

（サハジ）健全な罪悪感というものは 存在しますよね

to the pain and hurt that we might be causing to other people,

道徳心を呼び覚ますものです

to the social and cultural standards that we may have crossed.

それがあることで 他人を傷つけずに済んだり

And it can help direct our behavior.

社会的または文化的規範を 守ったりできます

If we're really sitting with it, we can understand,

行動の指針になるのです

"OK, you know what?

I didn't want to hurt that person" or "I didn't want to do that thing."

その罪悪感に合点がいくなら

“あの人は傷つけたくなかった” “あれは失敗だった”と思えます

So that can help you then decide to make amends,

to change your behavior, to apologize.

それで償うという判断を下し 行動を変えて 謝ることができます

But then we have unhealthy guilt

where maybe the guilt that we're feeling is adopted through values

一方で 不健全な罪悪感もあります

自分で構築したわけではない 価値観や境界線を通して

that we don't necessarily hold

or boundaries that we don't necessarily want to hold.

So long-term guilt --

身についたと思われる 罪の意識です

guilt is not necessarily a negative emotion.

It's really important to understand that differentiation,

ですから―

罪の意識は 否定的な感情とは限りません

that guilt is something that can really guide us.

その区別を知ることは とても重要です

And like any emotion, it's telling us something

罪悪感は いい指針になります

and we must listen to it before we decide how to handle it.

感情は 私たちへの忠告なので

CSB: Yeah.

扱い方を決める前に 受け止めるべきです

And in the unhealthy situation,

what are some helpful strategies for dealing with it?

（クロエ）なるほど

I suspect it will be relevant to many demographics of people.

不健全な罪悪感には どう向き合ったらいいのでしょう？

SKK: So, you know,

いろんな人にとって 参考になりそうな話です

the thing about chronic guilt is that it can force us to be small.

（サハジ）慢性的な罪悪感があると どうしても萎縮します

It can tell us we must stay within the box.

We shouldn't take up a lot of space.

既存の枠から外れるなとか 肩身の狭い思いをするのが当然だとか

It kind of encourages us to distrust our own needs and wants,

自身の要求や願望を信じるなとか 言われる感じです

especially if they differ from the people around us

and our immigrant parents.

特に 周囲や移民の親と 価値観が違うと厄介です

So some strategies for adopting and dealing with guilt:

It's really important to question the guilt.

そこで 罪悪感の扱い方ですが

It's important to identify your parents's beliefs and values

まず疑問を持つことです

and then explore your own and see how they overlap.

親の見解や価値観を見極めて 自分のそれとの共通点を考えます

Ask yourself, "How can I lovingly detach

from the assumption or belief my parent has."

穏やかに 親の先入観や見解と 距離を置く方法を探るのです

Ask yourself

if you are internalizing something that doesn't actually speak true to you.

しっくりこない価値観が 自分の中にないか自問してください

Remind yourself also

that your parents are often doing the best they can

with what they know and what they were taught.

親も 自身が 教わったことに基づき

And with that, you have to have a lot of self-compassion

最善と思われる子育てを しているだけです

to know that you're figuring out how to deal with something

自分を十分にいたわり 自覚しましょう

that maybe no one in your family has dealt with.

あなたは 家族の誰も未体験の 問題に対処しようとしていて

You were never taught how to deal with.

So it's really important to show up with a lot of self compassion.

その方法も教わっていません

And then the last thing that really comes to mind here

ですから 自分をねぎらうことが とても大事です

is to accept that guilt may always be an emotion

また あまり気付きませんが

that you have to navigate.

It's a warning light.

罪の意識は なくならないこともあると 思っておいてください

I think a lot of children of immigrants look to guilt and feel guilt

罪悪感は警告灯なのです

and then say, "Oh, my gosh,

移民の子は 罪悪感を感じると こう考えます

this is a sign that I need to turn around and not do the thing I want to do

“まずい これは回れ右を しろっていう合図だ”

or continue on the path I’m about to take.”

And instead, I say, sit with the guilt,

“自分のしたいことを このまま続けちゃいけない”

see it as a warning sign

and try to understand where it's really coming from.

そう考えるより 罪悪感と向き合い

これを警告灯と受け止め

CSB: Yeah, that's incredibly helpful.

その出所を突き止める努力を すべきです

We have a question from the audience.

（クロエ）その発想はすごく有益ですね

"What coping mechanisms

would you recommend for someone dealing with guilt?"

別の質問が来ています

“罪悪感と折り合いをつける おすすめの方法は？”

SKK: So all of the things,

some of the coping mechanisms I already named, you know,

（サハジ）今 話した内容もそうですが １つ提案したいのは

it's really important to reauthor the narrative that you've been taught

that things are binary.

二者択一だと教わった事柄を 自分の認識で捉え直すことです

Something that I often see when people are dealing with guilt

is that guilt is bad.

人は大抵 罪の意識といえば 悪いものだと考えます

Again, guilt is not necessarily bad.

It's just an emotion that is trying to tell you something.

でも 必ずしもそうではなく

So a lot of children of immigrants

実は その感情は あなたに何かを伝えているだけです

and a lot of people in this country

移民の子たちだけでなく この国に住む人の多くが

think of feelings as good or bad,

think of themselves as right or wrong,

this or that, all or nothing.

感情を 善か悪に分けます

And I really want to encourage you to question that narrative.

正しいか誤りかなど 中間がありません

You know, two things can be true at the same time.

その思考に疑問を持ってください

You can pursue something that makes you really happy,

２つの事柄は両立し得ます

something that is inherently good for you, healthy for you,

自分にとって本質的に良くて健全で 幸せなことを追求しながら

and you can still feel guilt.

And so to that, I just really want to drive home the point

罪悪感を覚えることもあり得ます

that guilt is not necessarily a bad emotion.

強調したいのは 罪の意識が 悪いとは限らないという点です

And it's OK if you are always trying to navigate it.

消せなくても気にしないでください

CSB: You know, one thing that I've also seen you talk about

is how values,

（クロエ）あなたが別の所でした話で 印象的だったのですが

getting clear on our values, helps us manage our guilt.

“価値観を明確にすれば 罪悪感は扱いやすくなる”と？

Can you share more about that?

SKK: Absolutely.

Getting clear on your values can definitely help with managing guilt.

その話を聞きたいです

（サハジ）ええ 喜んで

It's important to get clear on your values

価値観を明確にすると 罪悪感はずっと扱いやすくなります

instead of assuming that your values are exactly the same

自分の価値観を明らかにしない限り

as the people around you.

周囲と自分の価値観を 同一視しがちになります

And when you're not clear on what's important to you,

it's really easy to follow into a pattern of what's expected of you,

大切なものが明確でない場合

what other people want from you.

周囲の期待に応えて動くパターンに 容易に陥ります

And this can lead to a lot of people-pleasing behaviors,

it can lead to seeking approval,

すると 人の機嫌ばかり取って 承認欲求が増し

maybe keeping the peace because that's what you've been taught,

but it doesn't necessarily lead to personal fulfillment.

和を乱すよりも 従順でいることを優先させます

So to get clear on your values,

それでも達成感は保証されません

really spend some time reflecting on questions like what's important to you,

だから 自分の価値観を 明確にしてください

when have you been the happiest?

何が大切で 何が幸せかをよく考え

And think about the times that you've been the happiest,

and then think about values that were being honored during that time.

どんな時に幸せで その時 何を重視したかを思い出すのです

When were you the most unhappy?

And think about values that might have been suppressed or crossed.

そして 不幸せだった時に 否定された価値観は何だったかも

We have to think about living our lives with value-driven choices.

But that's really hard to understand if your values don't overlap

誰でも 自分の価値観や 流儀に従って生きたいものですが

with the people you love.

大事な人と自分の価値観が ずれていると難しいですよね

And so what I hear from children of immigrants a lot

is "My values aren't the same. So then what do I do?"

移民の子がよく “親と価値観が違う どうしよう”と言うので

And so to that, I say try to find ways to communicate to your parents,

a lot of the assumptions and beliefs and values our parents have,

“価値観を親に伝える方法を 考えてみて”と答えています

親が持っている先入観とか 見解や価値観の一部は

some of them may be rooted in fear.

If they're not necessarily happy with a career choice that you're making,

恐れに起因しています

例えば あなたの職業選択が 自分の価値観には合っていても

but that aligns with your values,

try to address the fear that's coming up.

親は不満かもしれません

The fear that they have

that you won't be secure when they're not here,

そこには恐怖心があります

that you won't be able to make enough money,

あなたを守れないことが 親は怖いのです

that you won't be satisfied for years to come,

and try to address those fears

“稼ぎが少ないかも” “不遇時代が続くかも”と恐れています

to communicate your values to your parents.

CSB: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense,

親の恐怖心をなだめつつ 自分の価値観を伝えてください

especially with different cultures and figuring all that out.

（クロエ）なるほど よく分かりました

So we have another question from the audience.

文化が違うと 話はさらに複雑ですね

Let's bring that one up.

もう１つ 視聴者の質問を 受けましょうか

"How do you recommend that people address feelings of guilt

tied to someone who is deceased?"

“故人と結びついている罪悪感に どう向き合えばいい？”

From John Henderson.

SKK: That's such a great question.

You know what I see in the immigrant community

ジョンからです

（サハジ）とてもいい質問ですね

and with children of immigrants that may be really relevant here

移民や その子にも 大いに関係がありますが 往々にして

is that guilt is often tied to grief.

You know, the guilt of feeling misunderstood,

罪悪感は 悲しみと結びついています

the guilt of feeling like you can't do the things that you want,

誤解を招いたことに対する 罪の意識や

the guilt of feeling like you're not enough

何かがしたくてもできない感覚や 力不足だという罪悪感

are tied to a grief of something that you didn't have.

Maybe it wasn't the support from your parents.

どれも “自分が持たなかった何か”への 悲しみと結びついています

Maybe it wasn't the relationship that you really wanted.

親の支えや 望んだ人間関係が なかったなどです

So to that, you know, for navigating that,

I would say try to get really clear on what it is you feel guilty about

その感情と向き合うには

and what it is that you're grieving and how you can separate those two.

何に罪悪感を覚え 何が悲しいのかを はっきりさせて

And I would really recommend seeking community and support for this

その２者を分離することです

and also therapy.

仲間や支援制度を見つけるのも セラピーを受けるのもおすすめです

CSB: Yeah, absolutely.

But we've come almost to the end,

if you could just say one thing that you think would be really important

（クロエ）それがいいですね

では 締めくくりとして聞きます

for people to remember when they're experiencing guilt,

罪悪感を覚えた時 皆に思い出してほしいことを

what would it be?

SKK: You know, I'm going to drive home the same point,

１つだけ挙げるとしたら？

it is that guilt is a warning sign.

（サハジ）やはり 罪悪感は 自分への警告だという点です

Sit with it, identify your values and standards

that are being crossed when you feel guilt,

どんな価値観や基準に反したら 罪悪感を覚えるかを明らかにして

identify if they are your values and standards

or someone else's that you have internalized

それらが 他人の価値観を 内面化したものでないか見極めます

and then try to sit with what's important to you in that moment

before you decide what your next step should be.

何が大切だと思うのか 自覚してから 次の一歩を決めましょう

CSB: Fantastic.

Well, thank you so much, Sahaj, for sharing all this,

and for your wisdom.

（クロエ）完璧です

いろいろと ためになる話を ありがとうございました

Take care, thanks for joining us.

SKK: Thank you so much for having me.

これで終わります

（サハジ）ありがとうございました