A wall won't solve America's border problems | Will Hurd

翻译人员: Nan Yang 校对人员: Lipeng Chen

Anne Milgram: Congressman, I was about to introduce you

安妮·米尔格拉姆： 议员先生，接下来我会介绍你，

and say a little more --

然后说一些——

Will Hurd: Hey, Anne. How are you?

威尔·赫德： 嘿，安妮，你好吗？

安妮：你好。 非常感谢今晚你的参与。

AM: Hi, how are you doing? Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

We're so lucky to have you here with us.

非常幸运今天能邀请到你。

I've already explained that you're actually in Washington

我已经跟大家解释过了 因为工作原因，

because you're working.

你现在人在华盛顿。

And I was about to tell folks

而且我正要告诉大家

that you represent the 23rd district of Texas.

你代表的是德克萨斯州的 23 区。

But maybe you could tell us a little bit about your district

也许你可以跟我们 多介绍一下 23 区，

and describe it for us.

为我们描述一下吧。

WH: Sure, my district in Southwest Texas is 29 counties, two time zones,

威尔：没问题，我代表的区在 德克萨斯西南部，包括 29 个县，

820 miles of border from Eagle Pass, Texas

跨越 2 个时区，从伊格尔帕斯市 一直到埃尔帕索市，

all the way to El Paso.

沿着边境线共 820 英里。

It takes 10 and a half hours to drive across my district at 80 miles an hour,

大部分地方的限速 是 80 英里每小时，

which is the speed limit in most of the district.

穿越这个区需要 10 个半小时。

And I found out a couple of weekends ago,

然而我们几周前才发现，

it's not the speed limit in all the district.

这并不是整个区的限速。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It's a 71-percent Latino district,

这里 71% 人口是拉丁裔，

and it's the district that I've been representing

这个区是我在国会的第三任期

for now my third term in Congress.

所代表的区。

And when you think about the issue of the border,

当你们想到边境问题时，

I have more border than any other member of Congress.

我比其它国会议员 拥有更多的边境区域。

I spent nine and a half years as an undercover officer in the CIA,

我曾花了 9 年半时间以 CIA （中央情报局） 卧底的身份

chasing bad people all across the country.

在全国各处追捕坏人。

So when it comes to securing our border,

所以当要来保卫边境时，

it's something I know a little bit about.

我对此方面了解得非常少。

AM: One of the things I learned recently which I hadn't known before

安妮：我最近才知道的一件事情是

is that your district is actually the size, I think,

你这个区的占地大小，我想

of the state of Georgia?

跟整个佐治亚州差不多？

WH: That's right.

威尔：对的。

It's larger than 26 states, roughly the size of the state of Georgia.

它比 26 个州的面积大， 基本上等于佐治亚州的大小。

So it's pretty big.

所以它很大。

AM: So as an expert in national security

安妮：你作为国家安全方面的专家

and as a member of Congress,

和国会议员之一，

you've been called upon to think about issues

曾经被要求去考虑

related to immigration,

移民相关的问题，

and in recent years, particularly about the border wall.

特别是最近几年的边境墙问题。

What is your reaction to President Trump's statement

你对于特朗普总统的声明——

that we need a big, beautiful wall that would stretch across our border,

我们需要在边境建造巨大、美观、 高度在 18 到 30 英尺的墙，

and at 18 to 30 feet high?

有什么看法？

WH: I've been saying this since I first ran for Congress back in 2009,

威尔：其实我在 2009 年 竞选国会议员时就说过这件事，

this is not a new topic,

这并不是一个新的议题，

that building a 30-foot-high concrete structure

从东海岸到西海岸建造一个

from sea to shining sea

30 英尺高的混凝土结构建筑

is the most expensive and least effective way

是一种对保卫边境安全最昂贵

to do border security.

又最无效的方法。

There are parts of the border

在部分边境，

where Border Patrol's response time to a threat

边境巡逻队对威胁的响应时间

is measured in hours to days.

以小时或天计算。

If your response time is measured in hours to days,

如果响应时间如此之长，

then a wall is not a physical barrier.

那么这个墙并不是物理上的屏障。

We should be having technology along the border,

我们需要沿着边境应用一些技术，

we should have operation control of our border,

需要有对边境的行动控制，

which means we know everything that's going back and forth across it.

意味着我们需要了解 从边境来回穿越的所有东西。

We can do a lot of that with technology.

我们可以利用技术做很多事情，

We also need more folks within our border patrol.

我们也需要边境巡逻队 引入更多人员。

But in addition to doing all this,

但是除了做这些，

one of the things we should be able to do is streamline legal immigration.

我们还需要做的事情之一 是简化合法移民入境流程。

If you're going to be a productive member of our society,

如果你会成为我们社会中 有生产力的一员，

let's get you here as quickly as possible,

我们会尽快让你移民到这里，

but let's do it legally.

而且得通过合法途径。

And if we're able to streamline that, then you're going to see

如果我们能够简化 合法移民入境流程，

some of the pressures relieved along our border

你们会看见我们边境压力被缓解，

and allow men and women in Border Patrol to focus on human trafficking

而且会让边境巡逻队更专注于

and drug-trafficking organizations as well.

人口贩卖和贩毒组织。

AM: Congressman,

安妮： 议员先生，

there's also been a conversation nationally about using emergency funds

全国范围内还有一种讨论， 关于使用紧急资金

to build the border wall

和来自美国军方的资金

and taking those funds from the United States military.

建造边境墙。

What has your position been on that issue?

你在这个问题上持何立场？

WH: I'm one of the few Republicans up here that has opposed that effort.

威尔：我是对此持反对意见的 少数共和党人之一。

We are just now rebuilding our military,

我们现在正在重建我们的军队，

and taking funds away from making sure

需要资金来确保

that our brothers and sisters, our wives and our husbands

我们的兄弟姐妹， 我们的妻子或丈夫

have the training and equipment they need

得到他们所需的培训和装备，

in order to take care of us in far-flung places --

来在遥远的地方保护我们，

taking money away from them is not an efficient use of our resources,

从他们那拿走资金并不是 使用资源的有效方式，

especially if it's going to build a ...

特别是当为了建造一个——

you know, I always say it's a fourth-century solution

我把这个形容为四世纪的解决方案，

to a 21st-century problem.

不是二十一世纪的。

And the reality is, what we should be focusing on

实际上，我们应该关注的是

is some of the other root causes of this problem,

这个问题的某些根本原因，

and many of your speakers today have talked about that.

如今很多发言人都讲到了这个。

Some of those key root problems are violence, lack of economic opportunity

一些关键的根本问题包括 暴力行为，就业机会的匮乏

and extreme poverty,

和极端的贫穷，

specifically, in the Northern Triangle: El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

特别是在北三角形： 萨尔瓦多、危地马拉和洪都拉斯。

We should be working --

我们应该努力——

AM: I was going to ask what you would recommend

安妮：我是打算问你，你会建议

United States government does to address the underlying,

美国政府如何解决

what we call push factors, or root causes

这三个中美洲国家的底层问题，

in those three countries in Central America?

也就是我们所说的 推动因素或者根本原因的？

WH: One of the things I learned as an undercover officer in the CIA

威尔：在我做卧底的时候 我学到的东西之一就是

is be nice with nice guys and tough with tough guys.

对好人友好， 对野蛮人强硬。

And one of the principles of being nice with nice guys

而对好人友好的原则之一是

is to strengthen our alliances.

要加强我们的联盟。

We have a number of programs currently in these three countries

现在在这三个国家 我们有很多项目，

that USAID and the State Department is doing to address this violence issue.

USAID（美国国际开发署）和国务院 正在致力于解决暴力问题。

And we know, in El Salvador,

正如我们所知，在萨尔瓦多，

one of the problems was that the police were corrupt.

问题之一是警察腐败。

And so we've worked with the Salvadorians to purge the police,

所以我们正与萨尔瓦多人 一起清理警队，

rehire new folks,

雇佣新人，

use community policing tactics.

施行社区警务策略。

These are tactics the men and women in the United States of America

这些策略是美国的男男女女

and police forces

和警察部队

use every single day.

每天使用的。

And when we did this in certain communities,

当我们在某些社区实行时，

guess what happened?

猜猜发生了什么？

We saw a decrease in the violence that was happening in those communities.

我们在这些社区看见了 暴力的减少。

And then we also saw

而且之后我们也看见了

a decrease in the number of people that were leaving those areas

那些曾试图离开那块地方

to try to come to the United States illegally.

并想非法进入美国的人数在减少。

So it's a fraction of the cost to solve a problem there,

所以这是在最终 到达我们的边界之前，

before it ultimately reaches our border.

解决问题的成本的一部分。

And one of the reasons that you have violence and crime

而有暴力和犯罪问题的原因之一

is political corruption

就是警察腐败

and the lack of central governments to protect its citizens.

和缺少中央政府对公民的保护。

And so this is something we should be continuing to work on.

所以我们应该继续进行下去。

We shouldn't be decreasing the amount of money that we have

我们不应该减少我们正在运送到

that we're sending to these countries.

这些国家的资金数量。

I actually think we should be increasing it.

实际上我认为 我们应该提高资金量。

I believe the first thing -- we should have done this months ago --

我相信，在几个月前 我们就应该做的第一件事

is select a special representative for the Northern Triangle.

就是为北三角区 选择一位特别的代表。

That's a senior diplomat

一位高级外交官，

that's going to work to make sure we're using all of our levers of power

可以确保我们使用所有级别的能力

to help these three countries,

帮助这三个国家，

and then that we're doing it in a coordinated effort.

然后我们再结合全体的力量进行。

This is not just a problem for the United States and Mexico,

这不只是美国和墨西哥的问题，

this is a problem for the entire western hemisphere.

这是整个西半球的问题。

So, where is the Organization of American States?

所以，美洲国家组织在哪里？

Where is the International Development Bank?

国际发展银行在哪里？

We should be having a collective plan to address these root causes.

我们应该有一个集体计划 来解决这些根本原因。

And when you talk about violence,

而当我们谈论暴力，

a lot of times, we talk about these terrible gangs like MS-13.

很多时候，我们讨论的是 那些可怕的帮派，例如 MS-13.

But it's also violence like women being beaten by their husbands.

但是这也包括像 妇女被丈夫家暴。

And they have nobody else to go to,

而且她们没有其它地方可去，

and they are unable to deal with this current problem.

她们无法解决当前的问题。

So these are the types of issues

所以对于这类问题，

that we should be increasing our diplomacy,

我们应该增强我们的外交，

increasing our economic development aid.

提高我们的经济发展援助。

AM: Please, I want to take you now

安妮：我现在想带你

from thinking about the root causes in Central America

从思考中美洲的根本原因转移到

to thinking about the separation of children and families

思考在美国出现的

in the United States.

儿童与家人分离的问题。

Starting in April 2018,

自 2018 年四月份起，

the Trump administration began a no-tolerance policy

特朗普政府开始对在美国

for immigrants, people seeking refugee status, asylum

寻求难民身份庇护的移民人员

in the United States.

发起了一个零容忍策略。

And that led to the separation of 2,700 children

这个程序实行的第一年就导致了

in the first year that that program was run.

2700 个儿童与家人的分离。

Now, I want to address this with you,

现在，我想和你谈谈这个，

and I want to separate it up front into two different conversations.

而且我想把这个分成 两个不同的对话。

One of the things that the administration did

政府做的事情之一

was file legal court papers,

是提交了合法法庭文件，

saying that one of the primary purposes of the separations

阐述这些分离的主要目的之一

was to act as a deterrent

是为了对来美国的人们

against people coming to the United States.

起威慑作用。

And I want to talk for a moment about that from a moral perspective

我想花点时间 从道德的角度聊一下，

and to get your views.

然后了解你的意见。

WH: We shouldn't be doing it, period. It's real simple.

威尔：我们不应该这样做， 就这样，非常简单。

And guess what, it wasn't a deterrent.

你们猜怎么着，那并不是威慑。

You only saw an increase in the amount of illegal immigration.

非法移民数量反而在增多。

And when you're sitting, debating a strategy,

当我们坐着讨论策略时，

if somebody comes up with the idea

如果某个人提出

of snatching a child out of their mother's arms,

把孩子从母亲怀抱中夺走的想法，

you need to go back to the drawing board.

你们应该回到最初重新开始。

This is not what the United States of America stands for,

这种想法不是美国所代表的，

this is not a Republican or a Democrat or independent thing.

也不是共和党、民主党 或独立党的东西。

This is a human decency thing.

这事关人类尊严。

And so, using that strategy,

所以，实行那个策略，

it didn't achieve the ultimate purpose.

并没有实现最终的目的。

And ultimately, the amount of research that is done

而最终，许多研究证明， 孩子的拘禁，

and the impact that the detention of children has --

尤其是超过 21 天的拘禁，

especially if it's over 21 days --

对于他们的成长和未来

has on their development and their future

所造成的影响

is disastrous.

是灾难性的。

So we shouldn't be trying to detain children for any more than 21 days,

所以我们不应该尝试 扣留孩子超过 21 天，

and we should be getting children, if they're in our custody,

我们不应该去扣留， 如果他们在我们的监护下，

we should be taking care of them humanely,

我们应该人道的照顾他们，

and making sure they're with people

确保他们跟可以为他们

that can provide them a safe and loving environment.

提供有安全环境的人呆在一起。

AM: I would challenge you even on the 21-day number,

安妮：我甚至想质疑 你 21 天这个数字，

but for the purposes of this conversation,

但是为了这个谈话的目的，

I want to follow up on something you just said,

我想继续追问一些你刚刚说的，

which is both that it's wrong to detain children,

就是扣留孩子既是错误的，

and that it's not effective.

也是无效的。

So the question, then, is why does the administration continue to do it,

所以问题是， 为什么政府继续这样做，

when we've seen 900 additional children separated from their parents

自 2018 年夏季我们看见了 又有 900 个孩子

since the summer of 2018?

离开了他们的父母？

Why is this happening?

为什么还在发生？

WH: Well, that's something that you'd have to ultimately

威尔：这是你最终需要

问政府的事。

ask the administration.

These are questions that I've been asking.

这些问题我也一直在问。

The Tornillo facility is in my district.

托尼洛设施（扣留移民人员的场所） 就在我的辖区。

These are buildings that are not designed to hold anybody

这些建筑不是设计来容纳任何人

for multiple days,

很多天的，

let alone children.

更别说孩子了。

We should be making sure that if they are in our custody --

我们应该确保， 如果他们在我们的监护下——

a lot of times for the uncompanied children,

对于无人陪伴的孩子， 有很多次

we don't have a ...

我们没有 ……

we don't know of a patron or a family member in the United States,

我们不知道他们任何在美国的 资助人或者家庭成员，

and we should make sure that they're in facilities

而且我们需要确保 在那里的孩子

where they're able to go to school

能够去学校，

and have proper food and health care.

有适当的食物和医疗保健。

And if we're able to find a sponsor or family member,

如果我们能为他们找到 一个资助人或者家庭成员，

let's get them into that custody,

我们会让他们等待

while they're waiting for their immigration court case.

移民案子的同时对孩子进行监护。

That's the other issue here.

这里我们又有了另一个问题。

When you have a backlog of cases --

当我们有案件积压——

I think it's now 900,000 cases that are backlogged --

我想现在有 90 万件案子积压——

we should be able to do an immigration hearing

我们应该可以在九个月内

within nine months.

进行一个移民听证。

I think most of the legal community thinks that is enough time

我认为大部分的法律界人士 觉得这段时间足够

to do something like this,

去做这样的事情，

so that we can facilitate whether someone, an individual,

这样我们能够促成一个人

is able to stay in the United States

是留在美国

or they're going to have to be returned back to their home country,

或者被遣返回自己的国家的决定，

rather than being in this limbo for five years.

而不需要在这个地方待五年。

AM: If we think about the asylum system today,

安妮：如果我们考虑 现在的庇护系统，

where people are coming and saying that they have a credible threat,

当人们来到这儿说 他们正面对可信的威胁，

that they will be persecuted back home,

也就是他们将被遣送回家，

and we think about the fact that on average,

从事实上考虑，

it's about two years for someone to get an asylum hearing,

平均需要等待两年 才能进行庇护听证会，

that many people are not represented as they go through that process,

很多人因为要经过那个流程 而无法出现，

it makes me think about something

这让我思考

that they say in the health care space all the time,

人们一直说到的医疗保健领域，

which is that every system is perfectly designed

每一个系统都是为了 它所要得到的结果

to get the results it gets.

而设计的。

And so as you think about this

所以当你考虑

and think about how we would redesign this system

我们要如何重新设计这个系统，

to not do what we're doing,

不再做现在我们做的事情，

which is years and years of detention and separations and hardship

就是年复一年的 扣押、分离、痛苦，

for people seeking --

当了人们寻找——

and again, asylum being a lawful United States government process --

重申一下，需求庇护是 合法的美国政府流程——

for people seeking to enter our country lawfully.

为了人们寻找机会 合法进入我们的国家。

What should we do?

我们应该做什么？

WH: I tried to increase by four billion dollars

威尔：我试过将 美国卫生及公共服务部资金

the amount of resources that HHS has

提高 40 亿美元，

in order to specifically deal, ultimately, with children.

来特别为孩子服务。

I think we need more immigration judges in order to process these cases,

我认为我们需要更多的移民法官 来处理这些案子，

and I think we need to ensure that folks can get representation.

而且我认为我们需要确保 他们能够得到法律代表。

I've been able to work with a number of lawyers up and down the border

我一直在和一些律师 在边境内外工作，

to make sure they are being able to get access to the folks

确保他们可以接触到

that are having these problems.

那些有这些问题的人。

And so this is something that we should be able to design.

所以这些事情是 我们应该可以设计的。

And ultimately, when it comes to children,

最终，当涉及孩子时，

we should be doing everything we can when they're in our custody,

我们可以在监护他们的时候， 尽一切可能

in order to take care of them.

照顾他们。

AM: So I have two more questions for you

安妮：在让你回去工作之前

before I'm going to let you go back to work.

我还有两个问题要问你。

The first is about our focus in the United States

第一是关于移民问题，

on the questions of immigration.

美国人的关注点。

Because if you look at some of the statistics,

因为如果你看一些数据，

you see that of people who are undocumented

会看见那些在美国的

in the United States,

无证移民，

the majority of people have overstayed on visas,

大部分都是签证过期逗留，

they haven't come through the border.

而不是从边境过来的。

If you look at the people who try to enter the country

如果你看那些 在恐怖分子监视名单上，

who are on the terrorist watch list,

试图进入美国的人，

they enter overwhelmingly through the airports

他们绝大部分是从机场进入的，

and not through the border.

而不是从边境。

If we look at drugs coming into the United States,

如果我们看看今天讨论的 一个主要部分，

which has been a huge part of this conversation,

进入美国的毒品，

the vast majority of those drugs come through our ports

大部分的毒品从港口

and through other points of entry,

和其它入口进入，

not through backpacks on people crossing the border.

而不是由穿越边境的人 藏在背包里带来。

So the thing I always ask

所以我一直问的，

and I always worry about with government,

也是我对于政府感到担忧的，

is that we focus so much on one thing,

是我们过多关注在一件事上。

and my question for you is whether we are focused

我的问题是，在全国范围内，

in this conversation nationally about the border,

我们时时刻刻

every day and every minute of every day,

都在谈论边境问题，

whether we're looking completely in the wrong direction.

是不是我们完全选错了方向？

WH: I would agree with your premise.

威尔：我同意你的前提。

When you have --

当你——

let's start with the economic benefits.

让我从经济利益说起。

When you have 3.6 percent unemployment,

当你有 3.6% 的失业率，

what does that mean?

意味着什么？

That means you need folks in every industry,

这意味着每个行业都需要人，

无论是农业还是人工智能。

whether it's agriculture or artificial intelligence.

So why aren't we streamlining legal immigration?

所以为什么我们 不简化合法移民的流程？

We should be able to make this market based

我们应该将让它顺应市场需求，

in order to have folks come in

鼓励人们来到这儿，

and be productive members of our society.

成为我们社会里有生产力的一员。

When it comes to the drug issue you're talking about,

当说到我们讨论的毒品问题，

yes, it's in our ports of entry,

是的，毒品是从入境口岸来的，

but it's also coming in to our shores.

但是也有些来自我们的海岸。

Coast Guard is only able to action

海岸警卫队只能

25 percent of the known intelligence they have

对进入我们国家的毒品里 已知情报的 25%

on drugs coming into our country.

进行针对性的行动。

The metric that we should be measuring [is]

我们应该衡量的指标

are we seeing a decrease of deaths from overdose from drugs overseas,

是我们看见因为服用海外毒品 致死的人数的减少，

are we seeing a decrease in illegal immigration?

是我们看见非法移民的减少，

It's not how many miles of fencing that we have ultimately built.

不是我们最终建了多长的篱笆。

And so we have benefited

而且在过去几十年

from the brain drain of every other country

我们已经从其它国家的人才流失

for the last couple of decades.

受益。

I want to see that continue,

我想看到这个趋势继续下去，

and I want to see that continue with the hardworking drain.

我也想看到辛苦工作的人 源源不断的来到美国。

And I can sell you this:

而且我可以告诉你们：

at last Congress, Pete Aguilar, a Democrat from California, and I

在上一次国会会议上，来自加州的 民主党人皮特·阿吉拉尔，和我

had a piece of legislation called the USA Act:

提出了一项立法，称为:

strong border security, streamline legal immigration,

美国法——更强的边境安全， 简化合法移民流程，

fix DACA -- 1.2 million kids who have only known the United States of America

修复《儿童入境暂缓计划》—— 120万已经只把美国当作家的

as their home --

孩子们，

these kids, or I should say young men and women,

或者我应该说年轻的男孩和女孩，

they are already Americans,

他们已经是美国人，

let's not have them go through any more uncertainty

我们不要让他们再经历不确定性，

and make that ultimately happen.

不要让那发生。

We had 245 people that were willing to sign this bill into law,

我们有 245 人已经愿意 将这个法案签署进法律中，

it wasn't allowed to come forward under a Republican speaker,

但这个无法在共和党 发言人的言辞中出现，

and also the current Democratic speaker hasn't brought this bill

而且现在民主党发言人也没有

through in something that we would be able to pass.

将这个法案带入到可能通过的地方。

AM: So I want to close,

安妮： 最后，我想

and you are, perhaps, most famous -- I don't know if that's fair --

你可能是最有名的—— 不知道这么说是不是合适——

但是你和贝托·奥罗克一起

but you took a road trip with Beto O'Rourke

from your district to Washington, DC,

从你的辖区前往华盛顿特区，

and you've become known for reaching across the aisle

你已经因为跨越党派界线和 介入这些两党对话

and engaging in these bipartisan conversations.

变得被大众所熟知。

And one of the things I've seen you say repeatedly

而且我看见你 今天反复说的一件事是

is to talk about how we are all united.

讨论我们如何团结在一起。

And I think, when we think about the language of immigration

我认为，当我们谈论移民语言，

and we start hearing words about enemies and militarization,

我们开始听见关于 敌人和军事化的言论，

I think the real question is: How do we convince all Americans

我认为真正的问题是： 我们如何让所有美国人信服

to understand what you say that more unites us than divides us?

并明白你说的话更多是在 团结我们，而不是分裂？

WH: Crisscrossing a district like mine that's truly 50-50 --

威尔：我的辖区 党派人数是一半一半——

一半的民主党， 一半的共和党，

50 percent Democrat, 50 percent Republican,

it's been very clear to me that way more unites us than divides us.

这对我来说很清楚， 我们应该更团结，而不是分裂。

And if we focus on those things that we agree on,

而且如果关注我们同意的事情，

we'll all be better off.

我们都会做出更好的决策。

And I'm not going to get a perfect attendance award

我不会因为去教堂

for going to church,

而得到全勤奖，

but I do remember when Jesus was in the Second Temple

但是我记得当耶稣在第二圣殿，

and the Pharisees asked him what's the most important commandment,

法利赛人问他， 最重要的诫命是什么，

and he said to "Love thy Lord God with all your heart, mind and soul."

他说：“用你的心， 思想和灵魂爱你的主。”

但是人们忘了他也说过： “同样重要的是，

But people forget he also said, "Equally as important,

is to love thy neighbor like thyself."

要像爱自己一样爱身边的人。”

And if we remember that and realize what it would mean,

如果我们记得 而且知道它是什么意思，

and what you would have to be going through

能想象你需要经历什么

to be living in a situation

才让你狠心决定把孩子

that you may send your child on a 3,000-mile perilous journey,

送上三千英里险恶旅程的境地，

because that's what you think the only thing for their future,

因为你认为这是他们未来的唯一出路，

the only thing that you can do to make sure their future is bright,

是你唯一能确保他们前途光明的出路。

if we all remember that situation,

如果我们记得那种状况，

and think what we would do in that situation,

想象一下我们会在那种状况下做什么，

I think we'd also be better off.

我想我们都会做出更好的决策。

AM: Thank you, Congressman. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

安妮： 谢谢你，议员先生。 非常感谢你今晚的参与。

（掌声）

(Applause)