A wall won't solve America's border problems | Will Hurd

譯者: Evelyn Luan 審譯者: Melody Tang

Anne Milgram: Congressman, I was about to introduce you

安妮米爾格拉姆： 議員，我正要介紹你，

and say a little more --

以及說些——

Will Hurd: Hey, Anne. How are you?

威爾赫爾德： 嘿，安妮。你好嗎？

安：嗨，你好嗎？ 非常感謝你今晚的參與。

AM: Hi, how are you doing? Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

We're so lucky to have you here with us.

我們很幸運能邀請到你。

I've already explained that you're actually in Washington

我已經向大家解釋過

你現在在華盛頓工作。

because you're working.

我也正要告訴大家，

And I was about to tell folks

that you represent the 23rd district of Texas.

你代表的是德州的第 23 區。

But maybe you could tell us a little bit about your district

但能否請你介紹一下你的選區，

and describe it for us.

向我們描述一下 。

WH: Sure, my district in Southwest Texas is 29 counties, two time zones,

威：好的，我的選區位於 德州西南部，有 29 個郡，

跨兩個時區。

820 miles of border from Eagle Pass, Texas

從伊格爾帕斯一路到艾爾帕索， 涵蓋了 820 英里長的邊界線 。

all the way to El Paso.

It takes 10 and a half hours to drive across my district at 80 miles an hour,

以這區大部分地方 每小時 80 英里的開車速限，

which is the speed limit in most of the district.

要花 10 個半小時才能 橫跨整個區。

And I found out a couple of weekends ago,

不過幾週前我才發現 ，

並非全區都是這個速限。

it's not the speed limit in all the district.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

It's a 71-percent Latino district,

這區 71% 的居民是拉丁裔，

and it's the district that I've been representing

我一直都是代表這個區的議員，

for now my third term in Congress.

在國會中已經做到第三任了。

And when you think about the issue of the border,

如果要談邊界議題，

I have more border than any other member of Congress.

我的邊界比任何其他 國會議員的邊界都還要長。

I spent nine and a half years as an undercover officer in the CIA,

我在中情局做了 9 年半的臥底探員，

chasing bad people all across the country.

在全國各地追捕壞人。

So when it comes to securing our border,

所以，若要談邊界的安全，

it's something I know a little bit about.

我確實略知一二。

AM: One of the things I learned recently which I hadn't known before

安：我最近得知 我以前不知道的事情之一

is that your district is actually the size, I think,

就是你的區的面積，我想，

of the state of Georgia?

和喬治亞州差不多大？

WH: That's right.

威：沒錯。

It's larger than 26 states, roughly the size of the state of Georgia.

它比 26 個州還大， 大約和喬治亞州一樣大。

So it's pretty big.

所以說它相當大。

AM: So as an expert in national security

安：身為國安專家，

and as a member of Congress,

以及國會議員，

you've been called upon to think about issues

你曾被邀請去討論

related to immigration,

和移民相關的議題，

and in recent years, particularly about the border wall.

而近幾年，尤其是有關邊界圍牆。

What is your reaction to President Trump's statement

你怎麼看川普總統的聲明？

that we need a big, beautiful wall that would stretch across our border,

他說我們需要沿著邊界 建一道又大又美，

and at 18 to 30 feet high?

大約 18 到 30 英呎高的圍牆。

WH: I've been saying this since I first ran for Congress back in 2009,

威：自從 2009 年第一次 競選國會議員，我就一直在說，

this is not a new topic,

這不是個新議題，

that building a 30-foot-high concrete structure

打造一個 30 英呎高的水泥建築，

from sea to shining sea

從大西洋到太平洋，

is the most expensive and least effective way

是最昂貴且最沒效益的 保護邊界的方法。

to do border security.

There are parts of the border

在邊界的某些地區，

where Border Patrol's response time to a threat

邊界巡邏隊對於威脅的反應時間，

is measured in hours to days.

需要數小時甚至數天。

If your response time is measured in hours to days,

如果你的反應時間 要用小時甚至天來計算，

then a wall is not a physical barrier.

那麼圍牆就不是一個實質的障礙。

We should be having technology along the border,

我們應該延著邊界佈署科技，

we should have operation control of our border,

我們應該對邊界做操作管控，

which means we know everything that's going back and forth across it.

也就是說，我們要知道 所有穿過邊界的人事物。

We can do a lot of that with technology.

用科技我們是可以做到的。

We also need more folks within our border patrol.

我們的邊境巡邏隊也需要更多人手。

But in addition to doing all this,

但除此之外，

one of the things we should be able to do is streamline legal immigration.

我們應該要做的另一件事， 就是提高合法移民的效率。

If you're going to be a productive member of our society,

如果你將成為我們社會中 有生產力的一員，

let's get you here as quickly as possible,

那我們就盡快讓你過來，

but let's do it legally.

但要走合法管道。

And if we're able to streamline that, then you're going to see

如果我們能提高 這方面的效率，你會看到

some of the pressures relieved along our border

我們的邊界少了一些壓力，

and allow men and women in Border Patrol to focus on human trafficking

這能讓邊境巡邏隊 更專注於處理人口販賣，

and drug-trafficking organizations as well.

以及運毒組織。

AM: Congressman,

安：議員，

there's also been a conversation nationally about using emergency funds

全國也一直在討論動用緊急資金，

to build the border wall

來建造邊界圍牆，

and taking those funds from the United States military.

並且將軍方的資金用於此，

What has your position been on that issue?

對於此議題，你的立場是？

WH: I'm one of the few Republicans up here that has opposed that effort.

威：我是這裡少數反對 那麼做的共和黨員。

We are just now rebuilding our military,

我們現在正在重建我們的軍隊，

and taking funds away from making sure

拿走資金，就無法確保

that our brothers and sisters, our wives and our husbands

我們的兄弟姐妹， 我們的妻子先生，

have the training and equipment they need

能夠得到他們所需的訓練和裝備，

in order to take care of us in far-flung places --

以能在遙遠的地方守護我們——

taking money away from them is not an efficient use of our resources,

從他們那裡拿錢， 並不是個有效運用資源的方式，

especially if it's going to build a ...

特別是還把錢拿來建造……

you know, I always say it's a fourth-century solution

我會說這是用 4 世紀的方法，

to a 21st-century problem.

來解決 21 世紀的問題。

And the reality is, what we should be focusing on

現實是，我們應該把焦點放在

is some of the other root causes of this problem,

造成這個問題的其他根本原因，

and many of your speakers today have talked about that.

你們今天的很多講者 都談到這個部分。

Some of those key root problems are violence, lack of economic opportunity

關鍵的根本問題包括暴力、失業

and extreme poverty,

和極端貧窮，

specifically, in the Northern Triangle: El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

特別是在北三角：薩爾瓦多、 瓜地馬拉和宏都拉斯。

We should be working --

我們應該要著手——

AM: I was going to ask what you would recommend

安：我想問的是，你會建議

United States government does to address the underlying,

美國政府用什麼方式來處理

what we call push factors, or root causes

中美洲那三個國家的

in those three countries in Central America?

人口外移的推力或者根本原因？

WH: One of the things I learned as an undercover officer in the CIA

威：我在中情局擔任臥底探員時 學到的其中一件事

is be nice with nice guys and tough with tough guys.

就是對好人好一點， 對兇悍的人兇悍一點。

And one of the principles of being nice with nice guys

對好人好一點的原則之一

is to strengthen our alliances.

就是鞏固我們的結盟國家。

We have a number of programs currently in these three countries

我們目前有很多針對 這三個國家的專案，

that USAID and the State Department is doing to address this violence issue.

美國國際開發署和國務院 正在致力解決暴力問題。

And we know, in El Salvador,

我們知道，在薩爾瓦多，

one of the problems was that the police were corrupt.

其中一個問題是警方腐敗。

And so we've worked with the Salvadorians to purge the police,

所以我們已經在和薩爾瓦多 合作整肅警察，

rehire new folks,

僱用新人，

use community policing tactics.

採用社區警務策略。

These are tactics the men and women in the United States of America

這些策略是美國人民

and police forces

和警察每天在用的。

use every single day.

And when we did this in certain communities,

當我們在某些社區這麼做時，

guess what happened?

猜猜結果如何？

We saw a decrease in the violence that was happening in those communities.

我們發現那些社區中的暴力減少了。

And then we also saw

接著，我們也看到

a decrease in the number of people that were leaving those areas

試圖從那些地方 非法進入美國的人數下降了。

to try to come to the United States illegally.

So it's a fraction of the cost to solve a problem there,

所以在問題來到我們的邊界以前，

before it ultimately reaches our border.

花一點成本就能先 將問題在當地解決。

And one of the reasons that you have violence and crime

而會有暴力和犯罪的原因之一，

is political corruption

就是政治腐敗，

and the lack of central governments to protect its citizens.

以及中央政府無法保護人民。

And so this is something we should be continuing to work on.

所以這是我們應該持續做的。

We shouldn't be decreasing the amount of money that we have

我們不應該減少

我們對這些國家的金援。

that we're sending to these countries.

I actually think we should be increasing it.

我其實認為應該要增加金額。

I believe the first thing -- we should have done this months ago --

我認為，第一步—— 我們幾個月前就該這麼做了——

is select a special representative for the Northern Triangle.

是要針對北三角選出一位特別代表。

That's a senior diplomat

要是一位資深的外交官，

that's going to work to make sure we're using all of our levers of power

他的工作是要確保我們使用各種力量

to help these three countries,

來協助這三個國家，

and then that we're doing it in a coordinated effort.

且要用同心協力的方式來進行。

This is not just a problem for the United States and Mexico,

這不只是美國和墨西哥的問題，

this is a problem for the entire western hemisphere.

這是整個西半球的問題。

So, where is the Organization of American States?

所以，美洲國家組織在哪裡？

Where is the International Development Bank?

美洲開發銀行在哪裡？

We should be having a collective plan to address these root causes.

我們應該要有一個共同計畫 來處理這些根本原因。

And when you talk about violence,

我們談到暴力時，

a lot of times, we talk about these terrible gangs like MS-13.

通常我們想到的是可怕的幫派，

像是 MS-13。

But it's also violence like women being beaten by their husbands.

但暴力也包括女性被丈夫家暴。

And they have nobody else to go to,

她們沒有求助的管道，

and they are unable to deal with this current problem.

她們無法處理這個問題。

So these are the types of issues

針對這幾類問題，

that we should be increasing our diplomacy,

我們應該增加外交，

increasing our economic development aid.

增加經濟開發援助。

AM: Please, I want to take you now

安：我現在想要

from thinking about the root causes in Central America

把話題從中美洲的根本原因

to thinking about the separation of children and families

帶到兒童和家人 在美國被拆散的現象。

in the United States.

Starting in April 2018,

2018 年 4 月開始，

the Trump administration began a no-tolerance policy

川普政府就展開了一項零容忍政策，

for immigrants, people seeking refugee status, asylum

對象是在美國的移民、

尋求難民身分和政治庇護的人。

in the United States.

And that led to the separation of 2,700 children

該計畫實施的第一年，

in the first year that that program was run.

就導致 2,700 名兒童被拆散。

Now, I want to address this with you,

現在我想要和你談談這件事，

and I want to separate it up front into two different conversations.

我想要先把它分成 兩個不同的話題來談。

One of the things that the administration did

政府做的其中一件事

was file legal court papers,

就是向法院提出法律文件，

saying that one of the primary purposes of the separations

說明拆散他們的主要目的之一

was to act as a deterrent

是要對打算來美國的人

against people coming to the United States.

產生威懾作用。

And I want to talk for a moment about that from a moral perspective

我想要花點時間 從道德的觀點來談這件事，

and to get your views.

也想聽聽你的看法。

WH: We shouldn't be doing it, period. It's real simple.

威：我們不該這麼做， 就這樣。就這麼簡單。

And guess what, it wasn't a deterrent.

你知道嗎，那並沒有威懾作用。

You only saw an increase in the amount of illegal immigration.

你只會發現 非法移民的數量增加。

And when you're sitting, debating a strategy,

當你坐下來討論策略時，

if somebody comes up with the idea

如果有人提出一個想法，

of snatching a child out of their mother's arms,

是要把孩子從母親的懷中奪走，

you need to go back to the drawing board.

這個想法必須作廢。

This is not what the United States of America stands for,

這不是美國精神，

this is not a Republican or a Democrat or independent thing.

這無關你是共和黨、 民主黨還是獨立人士。

This is a human decency thing.

這關乎人道尊嚴。

And so, using that strategy,

所以，採用那種策略

it didn't achieve the ultimate purpose.

並沒有達到終極目標。

And ultimately, the amount of research that is done

最終，根據研究，

and the impact that the detention of children has --

拘留對兒童的影響——

especially if it's over 21 days --

特別是拘留超過 21 天——

has on their development and their future

對他們的發展和未來

is disastrous.

會造成災難性的影響。

So we shouldn't be trying to detain children for any more than 21 days,

所以我們不應該 拘留兒童超過 21 天，

and we should be getting children, if they're in our custody,

如果我們有拘留兒童，

we should be taking care of them humanely,

我們應該要給他們人道的照顧，

and making sure they're with people

確保他們身邊的人

that can provide them a safe and loving environment.

能提供他們安全和有愛的環境。

AM: I would challenge you even on the 21-day number,

安：我連 21 天 這個數字都想質疑，

but for the purposes of this conversation,

但就這段對話而言，

I want to follow up on something you just said,

我想要探討你剛剛說的，

which is both that it's wrong to detain children,

你剛說拘留兒童是不對的事，

and that it's not effective.

且沒有效果。

So the question, then, is why does the administration continue to do it,

那麼問題是， 為什麼政府持續這麼做？

when we've seen 900 additional children separated from their parents

從 2018 年夏天開始，

since the summer of 2018?

又有 900 名兒童被與父母被拆散。

Why is this happening?

為什麼這件事仍在發生？

WH: Well, that's something that you'd have to ultimately

威：這個問題最終

ask the administration.

你得要問政府。

These are questions that I've been asking.

我也一直在問這些問題。

The Tornillo facility is in my district.

托尼洛拘留營就在我的選區。

These are buildings that are not designed to hold anybody

這些建築物的設計

並不是用來拘留人好幾天的，

for multiple days,

let alone children.

更不用說拘留兒童了。

We should be making sure that if they are in our custody --

我們應該要確保 他們在我們的監護之下——

a lot of times for the uncompanied children,

通常，沒有人陪伴的兒童，

we don't have a ...

我們沒有……

we don't know of a patron or a family member in the United States,

我們不知道他們在美國 有沒有庇護者或家人，

and we should make sure that they're in facilities

我們應該要確保他們待在營區時，

where they're able to go to school

能讓他們上學、

and have proper food and health care.

有妥善的食物和健康照護的機構。

And if we're able to find a sponsor or family member,

如果我們能夠找到贊助人或家人，

let's get them into that custody,

那就先讓他們回到 贊助人或家人的監護，

while they're waiting for their immigration court case.

讓他們在那邊 等待移民法庭案件審理。

That's the other issue here.

不過那是另一個議題了。

When you have a backlog of cases --

當你已經積壓了一堆案件，

I think it's now 900,000 cases that are backlogged --

我想目前已經積壓了 90 萬件案件——

we should be able to do an immigration hearing

我們應該能在 9 個月內 舉辦移民聽證會。

within nine months.

I think most of the legal community thinks that is enough time

我想，大部分的 法律團體都會認為

這樣的時間是足夠做這種事的，

to do something like this,

so that we can facilitate whether someone, an individual,

這樣我們就能加速知道哪些人

is able to stay in the United States

是否能夠留在美國，

or they're going to have to be returned back to their home country,

哪些人會被遣返回他的祖國，

rather than being in this limbo for five years.

而不是讓他們生活在 未知的處境 5 年。

AM: If we think about the asylum system today,

安：想想現今的庇護制度，

where people are coming and saying that they have a credible threat,

人們會跑來說 他們遇到實際的威脅，

that they will be persecuted back home,

如果返國他們會被迫害，

and we think about the fact that on average,

而平均來說，

it's about two years for someone to get an asylum hearing,

大概要花 2 年的時間， 才能取得庇護聽證會的機會，

that many people are not represented as they go through that process,

很多人在經歷這個過程時， 並沒有法律代表，

it makes me think about something

這讓我想到

that they say in the health care space all the time,

在醫療照護圈子裡常常在說的事，

which is that every system is perfectly designed

就是每個體制都是

為了它想得到的結果而設計的。

to get the results it gets.

And so as you think about this

所以，想想這一點，

and think about how we would redesign this system

想想我們能如何重新設計體制，

to not do what we're doing,

不要去做現在我們在做的事，

which is years and years of detention and separations and hardship

那就是年復一年的 拘留、分離和困境，

for people seeking --

對象都是在尋求——

and again, asylum being a lawful United States government process --

再說一次，庇護是合法的 美國政府流程——

for people seeking to enter our country lawfully.

對象都是在尋求合法 進入我們國家的人。

What should we do?

我們該怎麼做？

WH: I tried to increase by four billion dollars

威：我試圖為 美國衛生及公共服務部

the amount of resources that HHS has

增加 40 億美金的資源，

in order to specifically deal, ultimately, with children.

來特別處理兒童的問題。

I think we need more immigration judges in order to process these cases,

我想我們需要更多移民法官 來處理這些案件，

and I think we need to ensure that folks can get representation.

我想我們也需要確保 這些人能有法律代表。

I've been able to work with a number of lawyers up and down the border

我一直往來邊界與一些律師合作，

to make sure they are being able to get access to the folks

確保他們能夠接觸到

that are having these problems.

有這些問題的人。

And so this is something that we should be able to design.

這些應該是我們能夠設計的。

And ultimately, when it comes to children,

最終，談到兒童，

we should be doing everything we can when they're in our custody,

當他們在我們的監護下時， 我們應該竭盡全力，

in order to take care of them.

好好照顧他們。

AM: So I have two more questions for you

安：我還有兩個問題想請教你，

before I'm going to let you go back to work.

然後讓你回去工作。

The first is about our focus in the United States

第一個問題是關於美國

on the questions of immigration.

在移民問題上的焦點。

Because if you look at some of the statistics,

如果你去看一些統計數據，

you see that of people who are undocumented

你會發現，在美國，

in the United States,

非法移民的人，

the majority of people have overstayed on visas,

大部分是簽證過期後滯留的人，

they haven't come through the border.

他們並不是從邊界進來的。

If you look at the people who try to enter the country

如果你去看試圖進入美國的人，

who are on the terrorist watch list,

且是在恐怖份子名單上的人，

they enter overwhelmingly through the airports

他們幾乎都是從機場進入，

and not through the border.

而不是邊界。

If we look at drugs coming into the United States,

如果我們去看進入美國的毒品，

which has been a huge part of this conversation,

這也是這個議題中很重要的一部分，

the vast majority of those drugs come through our ports

大部分的毒品是從港口

and through other points of entry,

和其他入境口進來的，

not through backpacks on people crossing the border.

而不是藏在邊界穿越者的背包進入的。

So the thing I always ask

所以，我總是在問，

and I always worry about with government,

且政府很讓我擔心的一點，

is that we focus so much on one thing,

就是我們太聚焦在單一焦點上，

and my question for you is whether we are focused

我想問你的問題是， 我們是否太聚焦？

in this conversation nationally about the border,

全國都在談論邊界議題，

every day and every minute of every day,

每天，每分鐘都在談論，

whether we're looking completely in the wrong direction.

我們是否完全看錯方向？

WH: I would agree with your premise.

威：我認同你的假設。

When you have --

當你有——

let's start with the economic benefits.

我們從經濟利益開始談起。

When you have 3.6 percent unemployment,

當你有 3.6% 的失業率，

what does that mean?

那代表什麼？

That means you need folks in every industry,

那意味著，每個產業都缺人，

whether it's agriculture or artificial intelligence.

不論是農業或者人工智慧產業。

So why aren't we streamlining legal immigration?

所以，為什麼我們 不提高合法移民的效率？

We should be able to make this market based

我們應該要能以市場為基礎

in order to have folks come in

讓人進來，

and be productive members of our society.

讓他們成為我們社會中 有產能的成員。

When it comes to the drug issue you're talking about,

至於你說的毒品議題，

yes, it's in our ports of entry,

是的，毒品是從入境口進來的，

but it's also coming in to our shores.

但毒品也進入我們的海岸線了。

Coast Guard is only able to action

海岸巡防隊只能針對

25 percent of the known intelligence they have

25% 他們掌握的毒品情報採取行動。

on drugs coming into our country.

The metric that we should be measuring [is]

我們應該衡量的標準是

are we seeing a decrease of deaths from overdose from drugs overseas,

使用來自海外的毒品 過量而死的人數有下降嗎？

are we seeing a decrease in illegal immigration?

非法移民的人數有下降嗎？

It's not how many miles of fencing that we have ultimately built.

重點不是我們最終 建了多少英里的圍牆。

And so we have benefited

幾十年來，

from the brain drain of every other country

我們一直受益於

for the last couple of decades.

其他國家的人才外流。

I want to see that continue,

我希望這能持續下去，

and I want to see that continue with the hardworking drain.

我希望能持續看到努力的人才流入。

And I can sell you this:

我可以跟各位說：

at last Congress, Pete Aguilar, a Democrat from California, and I

在上次國會會議中，

加州的民主黨議員皮特阿圭拉和我

had a piece of legislation called the USA Act:

提出「美國法案」的立法：

strong border security, streamline legal immigration,

強大的邊界安全， 高效率的合法移民，

fix DACA -- 1.2 million kids who have only known the United States of America

修正「童年入境者暫緩遣返手續」 —— 有 120 萬名兒童，

as their home --

知道的家只有美國——

these kids, or I should say young men and women,

這些兒童，或應該說 年輕男性和女性，

they are already Americans,

他們已經是美國人了，

let's not have them go through any more uncertainty

我們別再讓他們經歷 更多的不確定性，

and make that ultimately happen.

不要讓他們最終被遣返。

We had 245 people that were willing to sign this bill into law,

我們有 245 個人 願意簽署這個法案的立法，

it wasn't allowed to come forward under a Republican speaker,

但共和黨的眾議院院長 不讓此法案提出，

and also the current Democratic speaker hasn't brought this bill

目前民主黨的議長也沒有

through in something that we would be able to pass.

將這個法案推往可以通過的方向。

AM: So I want to close,

安：我想要總結，

and you are, perhaps, most famous -- I don't know if that's fair --

你最有名的事件是—— 我不知道這麼說是否公正——

but you took a road trip with Beto O'Rourke

但你和貝托歐洛克曾一起公路旅行，

from your district to Washington, DC,

從你的轄區到華盛頓特區，

and you've become known for reaching across the aisle

而你也因為跨越黨派

and engaging in these bipartisan conversations.

以及參與兩黨對談而變得有名。

And one of the things I've seen you say repeatedly

我看到你一直強調的，

is to talk about how we are all united.

是我們都有相同之處。

And I think, when we think about the language of immigration

我認為當我們想到關於移民的話題，

and we start hearing words about enemies and militarization,

我們會聽到關於敵人 和軍事化的字眼。

I think the real question is: How do we convince all Americans

我認為真正的問題在於： 我們如何說服所有美國人

to understand what you say that more unites us than divides us?

去了解你所說的，比起分歧， 我們有更多相同處。

WH: Crisscrossing a district like mine that's truly 50-50 --

威：劃分像我這樣的選區， 那真的是一半一半——

50 percent Democrat, 50 percent Republican,

一半民主黨，一半共和黨，

it's been very clear to me that way more unites us than divides us.

我深知，我們的相同處 遠比我們的分歧還多。

And if we focus on those things that we agree on,

如果我們能專注在 我們都認同的事情上，

we'll all be better off.

我們都能變得更好。

And I'm not going to get a perfect attendance award

在上教堂這件事上， 我不會得全勤獎，

for going to church,

but I do remember when Jesus was in the Second Temple

但我記得耶穌在第二聖殿裡，

and the Pharisees asked him what's the most important commandment,

法利賽人問祂， 哪一條誡命最重要？

and he said to "Love thy Lord God with all your heart, mind and soul."

祂說：「你要盡心、盡性、 盡意愛主－你的神」，

But people forget he also said, "Equally as important,

但人們忘了祂還說：「同樣重要的，

is to love thy neighbor like thyself."

是要愛人如愛己」。

And if we remember that and realize what it would mean,

如果我們都能記得這點，

and what you would have to be going through

並了解你要經歷

to be living in a situation

什麼樣的處境，

that you may send your child on a 3,000-mile perilous journey,

才會讓你把你的孩子送上一段 3,000 英里的危險旅程，

because that's what you think the only thing for their future,

因為你認為這是為了他們的未來 唯一能做的事，

the only thing that you can do to make sure their future is bright,

你唯一能做的，就是 確保他們有一個光明的未來。

if we all remember that situation,

如果我們都能想到那樣的處境，

and think what we would do in that situation,

然後想想如果是我們， 我們會怎麼做？

I think we'd also be better off.

我想我們能夠變得更好。

AM: Thank you, Congressman. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

安：謝謝你，議員。 非常感謝你今晚的參與。

(Applause)

（掌聲）