Success stories from Kenya's first makerspace | Kamau Gachigi

39,636 views ・ 2018-01-17

TED


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譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 易帆 余
00:12
By the year 2050, the population of Africa will have doubled.
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到 2050 年,非洲的人口會加倍。
00:17
One in four people on Earth will be African at that point,
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到那時,在地球上, 每四個人中就有一個非洲人,
00:20
and this is both really exciting and daunting all at once.
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這個狀況既讓人興奮又讓人怯步。
00:24
It's really exciting because, for the first time in the modern era,
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很讓人興奮的原因是, 這是地球上第一次在摩登時代
00:27
there will be enough Africans on the Earth to bully everybody else.
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有足夠的非洲人來霸凌所有其他人。
00:30
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
00:32
I'm only kidding.
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我只是開玩笑。
00:34
But it's daunting, because we're going to have to have economies
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但之所以讓人怯步, 是因為我們必須要有
00:37
that can sustain this population growth,
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能夠維持這種人口成長的經濟,
00:39
and many of the people are going to be very young.
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且那時許多人會是很年輕的人。
00:41
Now most of governments in Africa have a plan for this economic growth --
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現在非洲大部分的政府 都有經濟成長的因應計畫,
00:45
in Kenya, we call ours Vision2030 --
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我們肯亞的計畫叫「遠景 2030」。
00:47
and they're all predicated on industrialization.
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這些計畫都是根據 工業化的程度所做出來的預測。
00:51
The thing is, though, that the world
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不過要考慮的是
現在世界正在經歷第四次工業革命,
00:53
is going through the Fourth Industrial Revolution right now,
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00:55
which means that there's a merger
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這表示,物理、網路、
00:57
of the physical, cyber, and biological worlds.
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以及生物世界會被合併。
00:59
It means that because of massive interconnectivity
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意思是,會因為有大量的
人工智慧與機器人的 相互連結與應用產生,
01:03
and the availability of artificial intelligence and robotics,
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01:07
many of the jobs that we know and are used to right now
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許多我們現在所知道且習慣的工作,
01:09
won't exist in the future.
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在未來會消失。
01:11
So the challenge is a lot greater, in many ways,
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所以,在許多層面上,挑戰都更大,
01:13
than it even was when Asia was industrializing, for example.
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大於比如當初亞洲工業化時的挑戰。
01:17
To add to this, one of the kinds of person that you need
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此外,工業化所需要的其中一種人
01:21
for industrialization is an engineer,
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就是工程師,
01:23
and they're really in short supply on the continent.
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而在非洲大陸上,很缺乏工程師。
01:26
If you compare, for example, the number of engineers
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比如,你如果去比較數十年前
01:28
that those same Asian countries had
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亞洲國家工業化時代的工程師人數,
01:30
a couple of decades ago when they were industrializing,
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01:33
we fall far short.
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我們還差一大截。
01:36
And I've taught for a while,
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我已經教學一陣子了,
01:37
and many of the students who are studying engineering
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許多攻讀工程的學生
01:40
end up actually working in auditing firms and banks,
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最後卻是在查帳公司或銀行工作,
01:43
and many of them spend half their time doing accounting and so on
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他們當中很多人用大半的時間
在準備從事會計等相關工作。
01:46
as they're preparing.
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01:48
Now, I was fortunate enough to do my undergrad and postgrad education
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我很幸運,在英國和美國 接受大學和研究所教育,
01:52
in the UK and the US, in countries, environments,
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在這些國家、環境中,
01:55
where there was all the equipment that you required,
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所有你需要的東西都有了,
01:58
all the sophistication in the systems,
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體制也都夠精密,
02:00
and then I worked for about three years in Japan
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接著我在日本工作了約三年,
02:02
doing R&D for a large firm.
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為一間大公司做研發。
02:04
And so I was very used to having good equipment,
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所以我很習慣有好的必要配備,
02:06
and went back home
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之後我回到家鄉,
02:07
and joined the Faculty of Engineering at the University of Nairobi,
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加入奈洛比大學工程系的教職員,
02:11
wanting to contribute and be on the continent.
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我想有所貢獻並留在非洲大陸。
02:13
And I quickly found I was really quite useless,
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我很快就發現,我其實無法發揮,
02:15
because there wasn't all the equipment that I had become accustomed to available.
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因為我無法取得我以前視為 理所當然的那些必要配備。
02:20
And I was teaching students who I would find very bright ideas in their minds
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我教的學生腦中有非常聰明的點子,
02:24
and they'd be presenting things that I knew
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從他們簡報的內容
02:26
if only we had sufficient equipment,
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我知道若我們有足夠的必要配備,
02:28
they'd be able to really contribute to the challenge of industrialization.
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這些點子一定能對工業化 遇到的困難有所貢獻。
02:33
So I kind of had to change hats, and became quite entrepreneurial
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所以我得要改變角色,變成企業家,
02:37
and started looking for money to buy the equipment that we required.
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開始尋找金錢來源 以購買我們需要的配備。
02:41
And I heard about a concept out of MIT, called the Fab Labs.
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我從麻省理工學院聽到 一個概念,叫「fab labs」,
02:45
These are digital fabrication labs
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是數位製造實驗室,
02:47
that allow, in a rather small space with not very expensive equipment,
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在一個比較小的空間中, 用不太貴的設備,
02:50
people to have access to these tools
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讓人們能夠取用這些工具,
02:52
to be able to make almost anything,
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幾乎想要做什麼都可以,
02:55
as the slogan goes.
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就如同它的標語。
02:56
And so I was able to convince a government official
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所以,我說服了一位政府官員,
02:59
to buy one of these for the university where I was teaching.
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為我任教的大學買了一套。
03:02
And immediately, we had wonderful results.
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我們立即就有很好的結果。
03:04
We saw all kinds of innovations coming through,
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我們看到各種創新嶄露出來,
03:06
and for the first time in this context at the university,
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在我們這所大學的環境中,
03:09
engineering students from different disciplines
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來自不同學科的工程學生第一次
03:13
were doing the lab and practical exercises together in the same space.
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能在同一個空間一起 做實驗和實作練習。
03:17
Normally, they'd be siloed.
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通常他們都是獨立作業的。
03:18
And not just that, but students who weren't engineers at all
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不僅如此,還有完全 與工程無關的學生
03:21
were also working in the same place,
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也在使用同一個空間,
03:23
and non-students, people who had nothing to do with the university,
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還有與大學完全無關的非學生人士
03:26
were also coming into this space.
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也會來用這個空間。
03:28
So you had this rich mix of people,
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所以這裡有各式各樣的人,
03:30
people who think differently from one another,
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每個人的想法都不同,
03:32
and this always is really good for innovation.
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對於創新而言,這是很好的現象。
03:34
I was really proud of what we were seeing.
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對此我感到十分驕傲。
03:36
So you can imagine my surprise
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所以,你們可以想像,
03:38
when one day the dean of engineering came and said to me,
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有天工學院院長來找我時 我有多驚訝,他說:
03:41
"Kamau, the students who spend most of the time in the Fab Lab
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「卡冒,把大部分時間花在 Fab Lab 的那些學生
03:45
are failing their exams."
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考試沒及格。」
03:47
I said, "What do you mean?"
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我說:「什麼意思?」
03:49
And I looked into it, and he was right,
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接著我去探究此事,他說的沒錯,
03:52
and the reason they were failing
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他們沒及格的原因,
03:53
is that they'd honed their skills so well in certain things
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他們在某些事物上把 他們的技能鍛鍊得非常好,
03:56
that they were going out into the city and offering services for money.
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讓他們能夠到外地城市 提供服務來賺錢。
04:00
So they were making money --
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他們在賺錢,
04:01
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:02
and they therefore weren't focusing on their studies.
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因此他們不會把專注力放在學業上。
04:05
And I thought, what a good problem to have.
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我心想,我們遇到的問題好棒啊。
04:07
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
04:08
Don't quote me on that. I'm an academician.
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別引述我的話。我是學者。
04:11
So we needed to scale this,
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所以,我們得要做些規模調整,
04:14
and at the university, things were a bit too bureaucratic,
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但在大學裡做事總會遇到官僚問題,
04:17
and so I moved out and I hooked up with people who, in Nairobi,
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所以我搬出去了, 和奈洛比的人搭上線,
04:20
were providing spaces for IT experts
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他們提供空間給資訊科技專家,
04:23
to share fast internet and things like that.
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共享快速網路這類東西。
04:26
And some of these places are really quite famous.
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這些地方當中有些是相當知名的。
04:28
They've made Kenya famous for IT.
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它們讓肯亞因為資訊科技而聞名。
04:31
And together we set up a space which we are setting up right now.
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我們一起打造一個空間, 目前正在進行中。
04:36
We've moved from where we were.
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我們從原地方搬出來。
04:37
We are in a much larger space,
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新的空間大了許多,
04:39
and we're sort of making available a wide range of equipment,
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我們把各種設備都開放出來,
04:42
including the digital fabrication tools that I mentioned,
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包括我之前提到的數位製造工具,
04:45
and analog tools,
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還有類比開發工具,
04:47
to anybody really, on a membership basis.
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任何人只要加入會員即可使用。
04:49
It's a bit like a gym, so you come in, you pay,
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它有點像健身房,你來,付了錢,
04:52
you get taught how to use the equipment,
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就會教你如何用這些設備,
04:54
and then you're set free to innovate and do whatever it is that you want,
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然後你就可以自由去創新, 做任何你想要做的,
04:57
and you don't have to be an engineer, necessarily.
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你不一定要是個工程師。
05:00
And some of the people in the space are setting up a small company.
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這空間中的一些人一起成立小公司,
05:03
They just need a space at a desk,
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他們只需要一張桌子的空間,
05:05
and so we provide that at a fee,
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所以我們就收費提供;
05:07
and others take up bigger spaces and are able to set up their offices.
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其他人需要更大的空間設立辦公室。
05:10
They're further along.
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他們有所進展。
05:11
Maybe their company has been running for a certain period of time.
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也許他們的公司 已經營運了一段時間。
05:14
And so we're able to accommodate all of this
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所以我們能夠在一個
05:16
in an innovation space that is really quite active.
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相當積極的創新空間中提供這一切。
05:20
What you're seeing in this image over here is Douglas,
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這張照片上的是道格拉斯,
05:23
and Douglas is an electrical engineer,
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道格拉斯是電機工程師,
05:25
one of the people who was really active in the Fab Lab.
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他是在 Fab Lab 中 非常活躍的人之一。
我很確定他考試及格了。
05:28
I'm pretty sure he passed his exams.
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05:30
And the image on the top left is a copper sheet.
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左上角的圖片是一張銅片。
05:33
And he designed a circuit that the client came to him and said,
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他是設計電路的, 客戶會去找他然後說:
05:36
"I need this circuit for a pay-as-you-go system."
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「我需要這個電路,做預付卡充值系統。」
05:39
And so this is a model for business
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所以,這是一個商業模型,
05:42
that's made accessibility to goods and services for very poor people
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讓非常貧窮的人能用更容易的 方式來取得商品和服務,
05:47
really much easier, because they're able to pay a little bit,
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因為他們能夠一次支付一點點,
05:50
like a dollar a day, for example,
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比如一天支付一塊錢,
05:51
for a specific service.
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來取得某種服務。
05:53
And so this company wanted to pilot a new idea that they had,
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所以,這間公司想要 測試他們的一個新點子,
05:56
and so they just needed 50 circuits,
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所以,他們只需要五十組電路,
05:58
so they hired him to make them,
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他們僱用他來做這些電路,
05:59
and what you're seeing him doing there is,
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你們在照片中看到他在做的,
06:02
he's able to design on the computer what the circuit will be
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他可以在用電腦上設計電路圖,
06:05
and then transfer it to an etching process --
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然後把它傳送到蝕刻機,
06:07
that's the image on the top right --
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就是右上角的圖片,
06:09
and then populate the board using this robot.
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然後用這個機器人來做板上組裝。
06:12
And so what would normally take him maybe a day or something to solder by hand,
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如果他用手焊接, 正常可能要一天的時間,
06:17
he can do in a few minutes using this machine.
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用這台機器,只要幾分鐘就能完成。
06:19
So he was able to complete the entire order within Gearbox,
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所以,他在 Gearbox 中 就能完成整張訂單,
06:22
and this is really important,
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這點非常重要,
06:23
because if it wasn't for what we provided right now,
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因為,要不是有我們 現在提供的這些東西,
06:26
he would have had to have hired a company in China to do this,
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他就得要僱用一間 在中國的公司來做這件事,
06:30
and because it's such a small order, it would have taken a long time.
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因為這張訂單很小, 會要花很長的時間。
06:33
It would be a small company,
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接單的會是家小公司,
06:35
because big companies wouldn't take small orders,
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因為大公司不會接小訂單,
06:37
and even then, if they got a bigger order,
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儘管如此,若這間小公司接到
06:39
they'd bump him off in favor of that.
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更大的訂單,就會棄他而去。
06:41
And there's language problems and so on,
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另外還有語言問題等等,
06:43
so being able to do it in country is really very important,
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所以,能在國內製作非常重要,
06:46
and of course piloting as a phase within the progress of the business idea
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當然,在商業點子的發展過程中, 測試階段是極度重要的,
06:51
is extremely important, because you can go back and make corrections and so on.
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因為你能夠回頭再去做修正等等。
06:56
In this image -- Thank you.
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在這張圖中——謝謝。
06:58
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
07:00
In this image you see on the top left,
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在這張圖中,請看左上角,
07:02
what you're looking at is a 3D render of a digital fabrication machine.
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你們所看到的,是一台 3D 的數位製造研磨機器。
07:05
In this instance, it doubles as a plasma cutter
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這個例子同時是等離子切割機
07:08
and also a wood router.
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和木工雕刻機。
07:10
And so the plasma cutter makes possible the cutting of plate and sheet metal,
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所以,有等離子切割機 就可以切割金屬板及金屬片,
07:15
and basically, you make a design on the computer
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基本上,你在電腦上做設計,
07:17
and send it over to the machine,
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把它送到這台機器,
07:19
and then quickly and precisely, it will cut the shapes you want.
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它接著就會快速且精確地 切出你要的形狀。
07:22
But in this machine,
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但在這台機器中,
07:23
you can also change the plasma cutter and put on a spindle,
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你也可以改變等離子 切割機,只要裝上一個軸承,
07:27
and then you can carve wood as well.
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你就能夠雕刻木頭了。
07:29
So this was designed by my Head of Engineering.
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這是由我的工程組長所設計的。
07:31
His name is Wachira,
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他的名字叫瓦希拉,
07:33
and when I hired him about two years ago,
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我兩年前僱用他時,
07:36
I asked him, "Just give me two years,
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我這樣請求他:「給我兩年,
07:38
and by the time you've trained a lot of people
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到時後,你就已經訓練出了很多人,
07:40
so that we have good staff under you,
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你底下就會有很好的組員,
07:42
then you can move out and become a good story for us."
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接著你就可以出去創業, 為我們成為一個好的故事。」
07:44
And that's exactly what's just happened.
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而實際發生的狀況就是這樣。
07:46
He's got two types of customers.
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他有兩種類型的客人。
07:49
The higher-tier customer
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比較高階層的客人
07:51
is a company that's actually using his machine
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是一間公司,用他的機器
07:54
to cut sheet metal for Isuzu truck fabrication in Nairobi,
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在奈洛比為合眾汽車 切割卡車用的金屬板,
07:58
which is being done by General Motors.
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之前都是通用汽車公司製造的。
08:00
So we're really proud to be able to say
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所以我們可以很驕傲的說,
08:02
that we have an original equipment manufacturer in Nairobi
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我們在奈洛比有一間 原廠設備製造商,
08:05
that's provided what's effectively an industrial robot
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這台工業等級的機器人,
08:08
to supply parts for General Motors.
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能提供零件給通用汽車公司。
08:11
Now this is really important --
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這點非常重要,
08:12
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
08:15
and it's really important because the population growth being what it is,
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這點非常重要,因為已經可以看到 未來的人口成長狀況,
08:19
a lot of very large companies are looking very closely
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許多大公司都非常關注
08:22
at the market that's developing in Africa.
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非洲市場的發展。
08:24
So in Kenya right now, we have Volkswagen, Peugeot, Renault,
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所以,現在在肯亞就有 福斯、寶獅,和雷諾汽車,
08:27
we have Mercedes doing lorries,
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還有賓士在做大型運貨卡車,
08:29
and we've also got Toyota, they've been there a long time.
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我們還有豐田, 他們在這裡已經很久了。
08:31
And these are all manufacturers planning to assemble vehicles
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這些都是製造商, 打算要在這個國家組裝汽車,
08:34
and in the future, to manufacture in the country.
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在未來還要製造汽車。
他們之中有許多 計劃要培訓他們所僱用的很多人,
08:37
Many of them are planning to train lots of people that they'd hire,
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這對經濟是很重要的,
08:40
and that's really important for the economy,
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但魔法真正發生的時候,
08:42
but when the magic really happens,
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是這些公司開始向當地的公司
08:44
when these companies begin to buy their parts for the vehicles
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購買他們所需的汽車零件,
08:48
from local companies,
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08:49
so supply chain development is something that's very important
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所以,供應鏈的發展相當重要,
08:52
for us to be able to pivot and to have very productive economies,
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讓我們能夠成為中樞, 並擁有非常具生產力的經濟,
08:55
and that's something we're focused on at our space.
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這也是我們實驗室 目前正在聚焦的重點。
08:58
This other image shows another class of customer that he has.
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另一張圖是他的另一類客人。
09:02
On the top left,
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在左上的圖中,
09:03
you have these people who are actually using very crude tools
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這些人用非常簡陋的工具
09:06
to work metal and wood.
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在處理金屬和木頭。
09:08
And Kenya has a population of about 44 million people.
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肯亞的人口約是 4400 萬人。
09:12
The work force is about 13 million,
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勞動力約是 1300 萬人,
09:14
and about 80 to 90 percent of those are in the informal sector.
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其中有 80~90% 都在非正式部門。
09:18
And what you're seeing in the image at the top left over there
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在左上圖所看到的,
09:21
is very typical of semi-skilled artisans
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就是非常典型的半熟練工匠,
09:25
who are making products for the marketplace
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他們在為市場製造產品,
09:27
that are really crude.
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這些工具非常簡陋。
09:28
Their production rate is very slow.
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他們生產的速度非常緩慢。
09:30
The quality of the product isn't high.
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產品的品質也不高。
09:33
And so we've teamed Wachira up with a bank,
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所以我們讓瓦希拉與一間銀行合作,
09:36
and the bank is paying him to train people from this sector
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銀行付錢給他訓練這部門的人,
09:39
on how to use this industrial robot.
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教他們使用這個工業機器人。
09:42
And the result is that some of them
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結果是,當中有些人
09:44
are going to be able to get loans to buy the machine for themselves.
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能自己透過貸款來買這台機器。
09:48
Others will be able to go to centers where they can carry their material,
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其他人則是可以把自己的 素材帶到中心去,
09:52
get the design done,
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完成設計,
09:53
and take the materials back that have been made really, really fast
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然後帶回非常非常快就做出的材料,
09:56
and assemble them in their own spaces.
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在他們自己的地方做組裝。
09:58
So somebody making a gate, for example, out of metal,
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所以,比如,有人要用金屬做閘門,
10:01
may take a week to make just one gate,
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光一扇閘門可能就要花一週,
10:03
but with this machine, they might make 10 in a day.
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但有了這台機器,一天能做十扇。
10:06
So the productivity of a large swathe of our population
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所以,我們很大一部分人口的
10:08
should be able to jump by a quantum amount, quite significantly,
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生產力總量應該能夠有顯著的跳升,
10:13
because of this kind of machine.
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因為這種機器的緣故。
10:15
And that's what we're at the beginning of, so this is really very exciting.
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我們現在只在開端而已, 所以這很讓人興奮。
10:19
This is another person who uses our space.
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這是我們實驗室的另一位使用者。
10:21
Her name is Esther.
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她的名字叫艾瑟。
10:22
She's in her mid-20s,
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才二十五歲上下,
10:23
and she came in very passionate about a problem that she explained.
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她非常熱衷解決 一個問題,她解釋說,
10:26
She said that schools days are missed every month by young girls
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年輕女孩每個月都會錯過上學日,
10:30
because of their menstrual cycle,
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因為碰到經期,
10:31
and they're not able to buy a sanitary towel.
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而她們沒辦法買衛生巾。
10:34
And the reason that she described
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她說,原因是因為,
10:36
was that the manufacturers packaged these in bundles of seven to 10,
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製造商把衛生巾 7~10 組做成一包,
10:40
and breaking it down is unhygienic at the retail level,
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基於衛生理由, 零售商無法將之拆開來賣,
10:44
and packaging each one of them is too expensive.
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每一組單獨一個包裝又太昂貴。
10:46
So she thought up an idea, which is brilliant, and simple.
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她想出了一個簡單又聰明的點子。
10:49
Why don't we just use vending machines?
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為什麼不用販賣機呢?
10:51
And she, in a very clean environment, can break down the bundles
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她可以在一個非常乾淨的 環境中把包裝拆開,
10:55
and fill up the vending machines,
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放到販賣機當中,
10:56
and then girls can buy these sanitary towels
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女孩們就能購買這些衛生巾,
11:00
in the privacy of a toilet, in a public space, in a school, and so on.
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販賣機可放在廁所較有隱私, 或在公共空間,學校裡等等。
11:04
She was able to pilot this and it worked really very well,
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她做了測試,效果相當好,
11:07
and she's been able to sort of get the bugs out and so on.
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接著她把漏洞都修正好等等。
11:09
So the significance here is that the piloting process is possible.
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這裡的重點是, 測試過程是行得通的。
11:13
She's not an engineer.
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她不是工程師。
11:14
She was able to engage people in our space to be able to help her to do this,
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她能到我們的實驗室裡找人 來協助她完成這件事,
11:18
and she's off and running now with a business accelerator,
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加上企業育成的幫忙, 現在她已經上路了,
我們預期會有很好的結果。
11:21
so we expect to see great results.
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11:22
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
11:25
In this image you're looking at --
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各位現在看到的這張照片,
11:27
the result of a master's project that was done at University of Nairobi
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這是一個奈洛比大學的 碩士專案計畫,
11:31
by Tony Nyagah, an engineering student,
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由工程學生東尼亞加所做,
11:33
and he just integrated a solar cell into a roof tile
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他把太陽能板整合到屋頂瓦片上,
11:36
and decided to make it a business.
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並決定把它變成一項事業。
11:38
He joined up with his sister who is an architect,
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他和他的建築師妹妹合作,
11:40
and they have this business,
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他們經營這項事業,
11:42
and they present the roof tile to a person who is doing development and say,
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他們把屋頂瓦片展示給一個 做開發的人看,並說:
11:45
"You can buy it for the cost of just the roof tile without the solar."
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「用沒有太陽能功能的瓦片價格 就可以買到它。」
11:49
So they're giving it at a discount,
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所以他們打折出售,
11:51
and then they'll build them using the internet of things over time,
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之後,他們會用物聯網的方式來建造電網,
11:55
they'll pay about a third of the utility charges for the electricity
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為了發電,她們要支付 大約三分之一的設備費用,
11:59
and they can sell the excess back to the grid.
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之後,她們就能把多餘的電力 賣回給電網。
12:02
And so they'll make their money over time,
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所以,經過一段時間,她們就可以賺錢,
12:04
and they've been able to do quite a few installments.
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她們已經做了好幾個案件。
12:07
We were very proud to be able to show this to somebody kind of famous,
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我們非常驕傲,能將這成果 呈現給蠻有名的人看,
12:11
as you can see there,
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從圖上可以看見,
12:13
and this other famous guy actually presented the same idea,
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這是另一個有名的傢伙, 他也提出同樣的點子,
12:16
but as far as we're concerned, if it was after us, so --
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但依我們的看法, 這是在我們之後,所以——
12:19
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
12:20
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
12:24
So in closing, going forward, of course being able to prototype
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所以,做個總結,當然,能夠做原型
12:28
and do low manufacturing in this kind of a setting
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並做低成本的製造,在這種環境中,
12:31
is very important for the industrialization process,
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對於工業化過程是非常重要的,
12:33
but we're also taking advantage of a lot of new ways of doing things:
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但我們也受益於許多新的做法:
12:36
the open source movement,
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開放原始碼運動、
分佈式製造、循環式生產。
12:38
distributive manufacturing, circular production.
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12:40
So it's all very important for not just industrializing
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這些都很重要,不只是在工業化
12:43
and being able to meet people's needs,
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以及滿足人們的需求上,
12:45
but also making sure that the environment is taken care of.
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也要確保環境有被顧慮到。
12:48
We're also really interested in culture.
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我們也對文化非常感興趣。
12:50
We have lots of discussions in our space around who we were as Africans,
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在我們的實驗室中,有很多討論 關於我們非洲人的身份、
我們現今的身份, 及我們想要成為什麼人,
12:54
who we are today, and who we want to be
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12:56
vis-à-vis things like consumerism and ethnicity and corruption and so on.
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關於消費主義、 種族淵源、腐敗等等。
13:00
So we see ourselves as providing, adding value to people
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我們認為我們是在提供加值給人們,
13:04
by teaching them to add value to things or materials
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教導他們在東西或材料上加值,
13:08
so that they can build things that matter.
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讓他們能建立出有意義的東西。
13:10
Thank you very much for your attention.
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非常謝謝你們的聆聽。
13:12
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
13:15
Thank you.
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謝謝。
13:16
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
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