Luvvie Ajayi Jones: How to be a professional troublemaker | TED

Transcriber:

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Helen Chang

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Each of us, no matter who we are,

惠妮·潘尼頓·羅傑斯：無論是誰， 每個人都有自己的夢想。

have dreams for ourselves.

我們也都有恐懼。

and all of us also have fears.

Luvvie Ajayi Jones has spent lots of time

拉薇·艾賈伊·瓊斯花了

很多時間思考這兩者的關聯，

thinking about the intersection of these two things,

即，你要如何克服恐懼來實現夢想。

namely, how you can overcome your fears to accomplish your dreams.

Here to break this all down for us is Luvvie Ajayi Jones.

拉薇·艾賈伊·瓊斯要來為我們說明。

Welcome, Luvvie.

拉薇，歡迎。 拉薇：嗨！

Luvvie Ajayi Jones: Hi!

惠妮：嗨，拉薇，你好嗎？

WPR: Hi, Luvvie. How are you doing?

LAJ: Doing well. Doing well.

拉薇：很好，好很。

WPR: Why do you use the term "professional troublemaker"

惠妮：為什麼你要用「職業的 製造麻煩者」來形容自己？

to describe yourself?

為什麼你會選擇用個詞

Why is that sort of the term that you've landed on

to define what you are, who you are?

來定義你是什麼樣的人？

拉薇：我們有些人在成長過程 會常被稱為製造麻煩者。

LAJ: Yeah. You know, some of us have been called troublemakers growing up.

When you are too loud in the class or, you know,

也許是在課堂上太大聲，或者……

your mom tells you to eat vegetables and you say no, and you're like,

你媽媽叫你吃蔬菜時你說不要，

you're a troublemaker.

你就成為了製造麻煩者。

我想改變這個詞的意思。

I want to reclaim what that means.

I think about the late, great John Lewis,

我會想到已故的約翰·路易斯，他說，

who said we have to be ready to make necessary trouble, good trouble,

他說： 我們必須準備好 製造必要的麻煩，好的麻煩，

and really was the lens of: we are going to have to do things

意思其實是：

我們必須要做一些 會打破世上現狀的事情。

that are going to disrupt the status quo in this world.

If we're going to do anything of impact and of note

如果我們要做有影響力、 有重要性的事情，

and make any type of positive change,

做出正向的改變，

we are going to have to "make trouble."

我們就得「製造麻煩」。

And making trouble is not about being a contrarian randomly.

製造麻煩的重點不是要隨機唱反調。

It's not about being a troll.

重點不是要當酸民。

It's not just simply because you want to make people uncomfortable.

並不是想要讓別人感到不舒服。

It's that, often,

重點是，通常，

when you are the person who thinks different from everybody else in the room,

當你的想法和全場 所有其他人都不同時，

it does feel like trouble.

那就像是麻煩。

You know, when you are not going along with the group, it feels like trouble.

如果你不配合團體，

那就像是麻煩。

But sometimes, it's actually what you need to do to not just honor yourself,

但有時你非得這麼做， 不只是尊重你自己，

but honor the world and honor who you want to be.

也是尊重世界，尊重 你想要成為怎樣的人。

So if making trouble looks like we actually end up being better off for it,

所以，如果製造麻煩的結果 是我們變得更好了，

then we have to make trouble.

那我們就得製造麻煩。我認為，

I think it's an obligation for us to make trouble,

我們有義務要製造麻煩，

the type that leaves our kids better,

這種麻煩會讓我們的孩子過得更好，

that leaves the rooms that we are in elevated,

讓我們所處的空間能夠提升，

the types that lets us be proud of ourselves.

讓我們為自己感到驕傲。

Now, making trouble will not always go well, right?

製造麻煩不見得會有好結果，對吧？

Let's keep -- I'm going to say that.

咱們——我要直說。

It's not that when you speak the truth,

並不是當你說實話時，

somebody's going to always receive it properly.

別人就一定會妥當地接收到。

But you go to bed knowing that you at least tried,

但至少你知道你試過了，心安理得，

as opposed to saying, "What if I had tried?"

而不是在說：「如果 我當初有嘗試呢？」

It's a life of, "Oh, well," then "What if?"

這是種「喔，好」 而非「如果當初」的人生。

So I think that's why

所以我認為那就是為什麼

professional troublemaking is something that we should be proud of.

我們應該為「職業的 製造麻煩」感到驕傲。

WPR: So I know everyone is dying to know:

惠妮：大家都很想知道，

How how do I become a professional troublemaker?

我要如何成為職業的製造麻煩者？

You outlined this in your book.

你在你的書中有概述， 剛才也談到了一點。

You talk a little bit about it in your talk.

But I know there are three big things that you think you need to do

但我知道你認為 必須要做到三個重點，

to approach this idea of becoming a troublemaker.

才能成為「職業的製造麻煩者」， 能跟我們分享一下嗎？

Will you share a little bit about that with us?

LAJ: Yes. So when you are in the room,

拉薇：好的，所以，

當你在房間裡，

and somebody says something that is not a great idea --

有人提出了一個不怎麼樣的主意——

we've all been in meetings like that,

我們都參加過這樣的會議，

where a campaign idea was brought forth or a slogan or just something,

有人提出了宣傳點子

或標語之類的，

and you're just like, "Oof,"

你心想：「呼！」

but everybody else in the room is like, "This is a great idea!

但房間裡的其他人卻都說： 「好點子！我喜歡，來動手吧！」

We love it! Yes, let's do it!"

And usually you feel like you're standing on an island by yourself,

通常此時你會覺得你自己 一個人站在孤島上，

你會想：「如果我覺得這點子不好，

because you're like, "If I'm the only person that has a problem with it,

am I the problem?"

也許問題在我？」

So then oftentimes, we'll be quiet, the room will dissipate,

所以，通常我們會保持沉默，

大家就散會了，

we walk out, and we keep thinking about that moment,

我們走出房間後會一直想著那一刻，

and we keep saying, "Should I have said something?"

一直說：「我剛才 是不是該說點什麼？」

I don't like the feeling of thinking, "Should I have said something?"

我不喜歡想著「我剛才是不是 該說點什麼？」的感覺。

Because I'll sit on it, and I'll overthink it,

因為我會把這件事一直放著， 想太多，隔天再想，

and I'll think about it the day after,

我會想：「我當時應該說點什麼。」

and I'll be like, "I should have said something."

所以，在那些困難的時刻，

So for those tough moments where you want to say something

當你想說出和大家不同的意見，

that feels like it's contrary to what everybody else is saying

but you know you deeply believe it,

但你真心相信該說時，

I say ask yourself three questions.

你可以問自己三個問題。

And if the answer is yes to all three, you say the thing.

如果三個答案都是「是」，就說吧。

OK, so the three questions are:

好，所以這三個問題是：

Do I mean it?

我是認真的嗎？

This question is important

這個問題很重要，是因為

because you're not just talking to hear your own voice.

發言不是為了聽見你自己的聲音。

Do you actually mean what you're about to say?

對你準備要說出來的話， 你是認真的嗎？

Can I defend it?

我能為它辯護嗎？

OK, if somebody challenges you

如果有人在這件 （你也挑戰的）事上挑戰你，

on this thing that you are also challenging,

do you have a way to justify and back it up?

你有辦法提出正當理由 來支持你的說法嗎？

Do you have a clear way to say,

你有沒有辦法清楚地說： 「我可以用這些收據證明。」

"These are the receipts I'm coming with"?

And then: Can I say it thoughtfully?

以及，我能否周到地說出來？

Because how you say it does matter.

因為「怎麼說」會有差別。

Now, it does not mean that you should be tone-policed,

並不是說你應該注意語氣，

nor does it mean that everybody will think you're saying it thoughtfully.

也不是說人人就會 認為你說得很周到。

But if you at least try to run it through your own,

但如果你至少自己演練一下：

"Am I trying to be as thoughtful as possible?"

「我有沒有盡可能做到周到？」

it's risk mitigation.

這是在減低風險。所以，

So you're saying, "OK, I'm not going to be hateful about this.

你說：「好，對這件事我不要反感，

I'm not going to say this to demean somebody.

我說出來不是為了要貶低誰。

And I'm not just saying it to blow the room up

我說出來也不是要讓大家吵成一團，

or make the room feel like a rocky place to be in."

或者把氣氛搞得好像

讓人坐立難安。」

When the answer is yes to all three --

當這三個問題的答案 都是「是] ——

Do I mean it? Can I defend it? Can I say thoughtfully? --

我是認真的嗎？我能辯護嗎？

我能周到地說嗎？

say it, and then deal with whatever comes.

就說吧，然後去處理接下來的後續。

Now, again -- I say risk mitigation.

再說一次——我說的是減低風險。

I'm not saying everybody will receive what you're going to say

我並不是說所有人都能

正確接收到你的意圖，好嗎？

with the intention you meant, OK?

But it is a way to check yourself,

但這是一個自我檢查的方式，

check in with yourself,

跟自己做確認，

check what you're about to say,

檢查你準備要說的話， 稍微檢查你的語氣，

check your tone a little bit

so it doesn't come out as unthoughtful as it could.

才不會說出很不周到的話來。

Because there are moments when things might be heated

因為有些時候，場面會很激動，

and you might want to speak really quickly.

你可能會想以很快的速度說話。

It slows you down just a little bit

你可以這樣說來幫你慢下來：

to say, all right, all right, you do want to say this thing, it is valid,

好，好，你確實想說這件事， 它是站得住腳的，但，

but don't come at this person's neck.

別逼死人。

So I think it's important for me.

所以，這方式對我很重要。

It's a checkpoint that I've used for years that I kind of lead with.

它就像是個檢查點，我用了很多年，

我都會從這個點開始。

And most of the time it goes well.

大部分的情況都很順利。

WPR: That is part of the tenets you outline.

惠妮：這是你說到的信條的一部分。

This is part of the "be" part.

是「當」的那部分。

You have "be, say, do" -- Is that right? -- for tenets.

信條是「當、說、做」，對嗎？

LAJ: Yes. Be, say, do.

拉微：是的，當，說，做。 惠妮：當，說，做。

WPR: Be, say, do.

And Ahmed, he asks,

阿邁德問道：

"How do you recognize professional trouble rather than regular trouble?"

「你怎麼區分職業麻煩 和一般麻煩？」

LAJ: I think it just really comes down to the heart from which you're doing it.

拉薇：我想這就要看

你做這件事的初心了。

You know, I really do think professional troublemaking,

我真心相信，職業製造麻煩的真締

what it means is to disrupt for the greater good.

在於引發混亂是為了更大的善。

You're not just disrupting because you don't like the person

你引發混亂不是因為 坐在對面的人讓你看不順眼。

that's sitting across from you.

You're disrupting because you know what you're saying or doing

你引發混亂，是因為你知道 你打算要說／做的事，

is going to be better for somebody else

對另一個人會更好，

or somebody who looks like you

也許是很像你的人， 也許是完全不像你的人。

or somebody who doesn't even look like you, right?

這是使命導向的。

It is ... it's mission-driven.

And it is sometimes brave,

有時，會需要勇氣，

because a lot of troublemaking is going to be scary.

因為製造很多麻煩是很嚇人的。

If it's not scary, it's probably not troublemaking,

如果不嚇人，可能 就不算是製造麻煩，

right?

If it does not give you a little bit of, "Uhh ... I'm about to do this,"

對吧？如果做這件事不會讓你稍微

「啊……我要做囉」，

it's probably not troublemaking.

那可能就不是製造麻煩。 容易的話大家都會做了。

Because if it was easy, everybody would do it.

If something was easy to say or do,

如果很容易說或很容易做，

everybody would do it, so it wouldn't be special.

大家都會去做，就不特別了。

So I think a lot of times about troublemaking

我想，通常，關於製造麻煩， 需要了解的一點是，

the thing to really understand is: it's going to be scary.

它會很嚇人。

But what we sometimes will think is that if it's scary,

但，有時，我們會想，

如果這件事這麼嚇人， 我就不該去做它。

that means I need to not do it.

That's not true.

不是這樣的。這樣只會讓我們落得

That's how we end up not living the lives that we want to live.

無法過我們想要過的生活。

That's how we end up passing on opportunities

這樣會讓我們錯失本來能

that are meant to transform our lives.

改變人生的機會。

That's how we end up regretting our silence in rooms.

這樣會讓我們後悔在當時保持沉默。

One of the things that I actually ask myself whenever I'm in a room

當我在房間面，覺得我必須要說出

很難啟齒的意見時， 我還會問自己一個問題，

and I feel like I need to say something that feels tough

is, I also ask myself, "Will my silence make me proud?

那就是，我會問自己：

「我的沉默會讓我驕傲嗎？

This thing that feels like trouble, if I don't do it, will I be proud of myself?"

這件感覺像是麻煩的事，

如果我不去做，我會 對自己感到驕傲嗎？」

Because ultimately, we are all our own biggest critics.

因為最終，我們要面對的 都是自己對自己的批評。

Like, I could disappoint other people and still be able to deal with it.

比如，

我可以讓其他人失望， 仍然可以過得下去。

But when I disappoint myself, it's really tough.

但我讓自己失望時，實在很難受。

So I'm always like,

所以，我總是說：「我要 製造麻煩才不會讓自己失望。

"I'm making trouble so I don't disappoint myself.

我要製造麻煩，

I'm making trouble so my silence is not something that will convict me."

這樣我才不會因為沉默而後悔。」

Because if I was there, I have to justify what I did in any room.

因為如果我在場，我的 所做所為都要有正當理由。

And I want to be able to say, "At least I tried."

我希望我能說： 「至少我嘗試過了。」

WPR: And to this point, Dennis asks,

惠妮：關於這一點， 丹尼斯想問：

"How do you pick your battles to maintain your energy every day?

「你怎麼選擇打哪場仗， 才能每天維持能量？

How do you decide which trouble's worth making?"

你怎麼決定什麼麻煩值得製造？」

LAJ: Great question.

拉薇：好問題。

Sometimes, I just ...

有時，我只是……

don't have the energy to make trouble on that day.

那天就是提不起勁去製造麻煩。

What that means is, if I am in a meeting, and on that day, I'm wiped,

意思就是，如果我在開會， 且那天我精疲力竭，

and I'm just like, "I don't have the energy

我就會說：「我實在沒有

to even be the one that's challenging,"

精力去當挑戰別人的人。」

on that day, I might be quiet.

那天我可能會很安靜。

So I just need more people to feel the obligation

所以我需要有更多人

覺得自己有義務

to also make the good trouble,

也來製造好的麻煩，

so the one person who's always doing it can take a rest.

讓總是在製造麻煩的人 可以休息一下。

惠妮：這樣聽起來， 很重要的就是要了解你自己，

WPR: I mean, it sounds like a big part of this

is understanding yourself, right?

Is understanding the sorts of things you want to go after.

了解你想要追求什麼。

And we have an anonymous question where somebody asks,

這裡還有一個匿名者提問：

"I think being a troublemaker also requires us

「我想，扮演製造麻煩者

也需要我們找出自己 真正想要的是什麼。

to identify what we truly want.

What's your advice on finding out what you want?"

在這方面，你有什麼建議？」

LAJ: Yeah, I think it's important to know what your core values are

拉薇：是，很重要的是要知道 你的核心價值是什麼，以及

and what the thing that you will fight for is,

你是為什麼奮鬥，這就是為什麼

which is why I started the book with a chapter called "Know Thyself."

我的書始於

「認識你自己」這一章。

That was important because we have to be doubly clear on who we are,

這很重要，因為

我們必須非常清楚知道

自己是什麼人、珍視什麼、

what we hold dear, why we are who we are,

為什麼我們是現在這樣的人，

because it's what's going to inform what we want to speak up about.

因為知道這些能幫助我們 了解我們要為什麼發聲。

It's what's going to inform what drives us to fight.

了解驅使我們奮鬥的動機。

It's what's going to inform the why of it all.

了解這一切背後的「為什麼」。

It's what pushes you past the fear to say, "I have to do this anyway."

這樣你才能克服恐懼，說： 「不論如何，我得做這件事。」

So if you're not clear about who you are and what's important to you,

所以，如果你不清楚你是 什麼樣的人、重視什麼，

you're going to find it hard to know,

你就很難知道： 「我到底要為什麼而戰？」

"What am I actually going to be standing up for?"

WPR: You've gone back to these tenets, then, in answering this question,

惠妮：你又提到了這些信條， 用來回答這個問題，想法，

this idea of being the troublemaker that you want to be.

去當你想要「當」的 那種製造麻煩者。

And then what you shared earlier

接著你也分享了要「問」三個問題。

is the saying of the asking the three questions.

And then there's a third part of this, the doing element.

再來就是第三部分，「做」。

Could you talk a little bit about what that looks like?

能否談談「做」是什麼樣子的？

LAJ: Yeah, you know, you can talk a good talk,

拉薇：好的。話可以說得很好聽， 但若光說不做，那幹嘛說？

but if you're not doing work, then what's the point of the talk?

最終，我們得要去 實踐我們相信的事、

Ultimately, we have to put action to our beliefs, to our ideas,

我們的想法、我們的信念。

to our convictions.

So you can be like, yes, you know, Black lives matter.

所以你可以說，是的，

黑人的命也是命，但，

But if you're a boss who hasn't promoted your most senior Black staff,

但如果你的老闆沒有提拔

你最資深的黑人員工，

and somebody who just started got promoted over them,

新進人員卻升遷到 比他們還高的位子，

then the words that you said did not matter.

那你說的話也沒意義。

So the "do" of it all is important; it's an exclamation point,

所以「做」的部分很重要， 它是個驚嘆號，

because first you fix your mindset with the "be,"

因為，首先，「當」 是要調整心態，

then you start putting words to it with the "say,"

接著開始「說」出相應的話，

and then now you actually put action to it with the "do."

接著去「做」，去實際採取行動。

And we cannot have the other two without the do.

不能只有前兩點而沒有「做」。

I think what ends up happening a lot

有個常見的狀況

is that people feel really good about what they said,

就是對自己所說的話感覺良好，

but they haven't made it actually match with their action.

但說的話和行為卻沒有搭配起來。

So be who you say you are, you know,

你說你是怎樣的人， 就要當那樣的人，

不論有沒有人在看都一樣。

whether people are watching or not.

Be who you say you are in private and in public,

在私下和在公共場合都要做到，

in the rooms where it's easy

在輕鬆的場合要做到，

and in the rooms where it's tough and you face opposition.

在困難且面對反對的場合也要做到。

Because a lot of us are walking with privilege that we're not using.

我們很多人都有特權但沒有使用。

So every day you're trying to figure out in what ways can you use your voice,

所以每天你都想要搞清楚

你能如何運用你的聲音、你的門路、

your access, your social currency

你的社交身價，

in service of people who don't have it as much as you do.

來服務不像你擁有 這麼多這些資源的人。

WPR: So, Anushka, she asks,

惠妮：阿努許卡想請問：

"As someone who's young and often seen as inexperienced,

「我很年輕且通常被視為經驗不足，

how do I gain the space to speak and have others realize my worth?"

我要如何取得發言空間， 並讓別人了解我的價值？」

LAJ: You won't gain the space to speak.

拉薇：你不能取得發言空間。

People won't let go of their power that they perceive.

人們不會放手他們 感覺自己擁有的權力。

基本上，你得去爭取。

Basically, you have to take it.

Now, that means you might have to interrupt and say, "Hi.

這表示你可能需要 打斷別人，說：「嗨，

I've been trying to speak for the last 20 minutes.

剛才二十分鐘我都一直想發言。

I have a point of view that I'd love to offer up."

我有一個觀點，我想提出來。」

It is being -- it is taking up space even when people don't give it to you.

這就是——

這就是別人不給你 空間時，自己去爭取。

And it does not mean you're going to be rude.

這不表示你很無禮。

It doesn't mean you're going to be arrogant.

也不表示你很傲慢。

It means your voice is necessary,

這表示你的聲音和其他人的 聲音一樣，都是必要的。

just like everybody else's.

In the places where your voice is not given space,

在你沒有發言空間的地方，

sometimes, you either have to take it,

有時，你得去爭取，

or you walk away, knowing that's not the space for you.

或者如果你知道沒有 你的空間，那就離開。

Because if you have to constantly fight to be heard, that's exhausting.

因為如果你經常要爭取 才能被聽見，那很累人。

People might look at you with all types of weird projections

別人可能會用各種 奇怪的投射來看待你，

of what they think you do or don't know.

預期你應該知道或不知道什麼。

Do not let it shift what you see as your own value.

別讓這些改變你認定的自身價值。

That is also why you cannot attach your value

這也就是為什麼你不能 把你的價值連結到

to how other people are treating you

別人對待你的方式

or how other people are projecting things onto you.

或者別人對你投射的預期。

If you do that, you will very quickly be told that you don't fit into spaces.

如果你那麼做，

很快就會有人告訴你，

你無法融入。

You'll be very, very quickly told that you're not worthwhile

很快就會有人告訴你，你不值得，

或者你的想法很糟糕， 接著你把這些聽進去，

or that your ideas are terrible,

and then you will absorb it.

And then you'll go, like, "Oh, I guess I won't use my voice."

你就會想：「喔， 我想我還是別發聲了。」

You got to fortify yourself

你得讓自己振作，

and know that your voice is just as important as anybody else's in the room

要知道你的聲音和在場所有 其他人的聲音同等重要，

且，身為一個在學習、成長的人，

and that you as somebody who's learning, who's growing,

who is already in the room,

一個已經在場的人，

you have already proven yourself to be valuable.

你已經證明了自己的價值。

And whether or not people see it is not ...

不論別人有沒有看見 你的價值，都不是……

it's not your fault,

都不是你的錯，

but affirm yourself and make yourself known.

重要的是你自看見、 肯定你自己的價值。

You know, take up space, even if they're not giving it to you,

去爭取空間，

即使沒有人要給你， 也別等他們允許才發言。

don't wait for their permission to speak.

Be brilliant whether or not they want you to be.

成為出色的人，不論他們想不想要。

WPR: Well, thank you so much, Luvvie,

惠妮：哇，非常謝謝你，拉薇，

I know we're all going to be waiting with bated breath

我們都會屏息期待這本書的消息。

for the news around this book.

LAJ: Thank you so much for having me.

拉薇：謝謝邀請我。在我的 旅程中，TED 一直相當重要。

TED has been so significant in my journey.