Better Speaking Podcast 🗨️🗣️ How to organise your speaking

If you find it difficult to speak English,

and would like some help to become more fluent, then

Better Speaking is for you.

Well, obviously, I've survived in business

by being able to speak English and Greek -

which is not very useful outside Greece.

So, definitely English must be

the business language.

Businessman Stelios Haji-Ioannou has become well known here in Britain

as the founder of a highly successful independent airline. In this interview,

he explains why he chose to start his business in Britain

and not in his home country, Greece.

Well, obviously, I've survived in business

by being able to speak English and Greek -

which is not very useful outside Greece.

So, definitely English must be the business language.

I think it would have been impossible to run an airline in the UK

without speaking English.

That would have been serious limitation to your ability to communicate

with customers, and in fact, when people ask me,

Do you, I mean you come from Greece,

why didn't you start the airline in Greece

or why didn't you go to France or Germany or everything else?

And, one of the things I say

is that Greece is too small

it's in the wrong end of Europe, and out of the big markets,

the German, French and English.

The only language I could skip,

speak was English, so I had to come to London.

Stelios needs English to run his business,

and as we heard there,

he speaks the language very well.

But what's he doing that makes him such a good communicator in English?

What's his secret to better speaking?

BBC Learning English dot com.

And with me again in the studio is

teacher and teacher trainer, Richard Hallows. Hello Richard.

Hello Callum.

And before we hear more from Richard, let's listen again to Stelios.

Well, obviously, I've survived in business

by being able to speak English and Greek -

which is not very useful outside Greece.

So, definitely English must be the business language.

I think it would have been impossible to run an airline in the UK

without speaking English.

That would have been serious limitation to the ability to communicate

with customers, and, in fact, when people ask me,

do you, I mean you come from Greece

why didn't you start the airline in Greece,

or why didn't you go to France or Germany or everything else?

And one of the things I say is that Greece is too small -

It's in the wrong end of Europe, and out of the big markets

the German, French and English.

The only language. I could skip,

speak was English, so I had to come to London.

So, Stelios Haji-Ioannou there

obviously, a very successful businessman. Richard, how successful

do you think he is a speaker of international English?

I think he's very successful

and I think one thing - what I find particularly interesting about Stelios

is the way that he organises his speaking.

And what do you mean by that?

Well, he makes it very easy for us to follow what he wants to say.

He uses words like 'and' and 'but' very well, but, more than that,

listen to the way he asks a question to himself and

then goes on to answer that question:

and in fact, when people ask me, do you, I mean you come from Greece

why didn't you start the airline in Greece

or why did you go to France or Germany or everything else?

And, one of the things I say

is that Greece is too small

it's in the wrong end of Europe, and out of the big markets

the German, French and English. The only language

I could skip, speak was English

so I had to come to London.

Now, um, by asking the question

it prepares us, us being the listener, to listen for the answer.

So, why did he come to the UK? Well.

Mmm, I wonder, and, you know, we start thinking: maybe it's this, or

maybe it's that, and then

he gives us the answer.

So, it's a good way to to get the listener to to follow easily

what you'd want to, them to hear.

So, helping the listener out, you know, in the conversation.

Yeah. And I think what our listeners can do is they can they actually can steal this

question or adapt it in different ways.

For example?

Well, they could say 'An interesting question is...'

and then, go on to,

to say that, or 'I think...'

'Let me tell you about...' is a good expression.

So there are ways

of drawing the listener into the conversation - getting them involved

and are making them want to listen more.

Yeah. It's a way of marking that there's some important information coming next.

It's a useful idea to,

to make it clear, as clear as possible,

what type of information is coming next.

So, I think, if you're adding extra information,

or maybe contrasting information, saying something

opposite in meaning. Our listeners know

I think to say 'and' and 'but', but maybe we can make that even clearer.

How?

Well, instead of just saying 'and', maybe 'and another thing is', or 'and on top of that',

or maybe even just stressing 'and', so, for example,

Stelios speaks very fluently and organises it very well.

So, we can stress the 'and' to make it very clear that there's some

extra information coming.

And that's very natural.

That's very natural indeed. Native speakers do it all the time.

If you're contrasting information,

instead of saying just 'but', maybe 'but in fact', or 'but on the other hand'.

So, we know it's very clear

there's some contrasting information coming,

and listen for that information.

Little phrases like

'and another thing is' and 'on top of that' are natural markers to put into,

into sentences. Can you, can you give us some examples of these?

OK. So, learning English is about having enough language, and

on top of that, making our speaking clear through

good organisation.

Right, so there's two things going on there

and 'on top of that' indicates that there's something more as well

that needs to be listened out for.

An example of contrasting information

might be that I came here by bus today and I left my house very early.

I thought it would take a long time,

but in fact, it took me 20 minutes.

'In fact' used there to contrast and information.

That's a very natural kind of language.

Stelios, as we said, is a very natural speaker of English.

Let's listen to one more clip from him - and he's got his own piece of advice

for learners and speakers of English. Let's listen again.

What I find fascinating is sometimes when you were having, perhaps

even a casual meeting, even a dinner with a group of people from different

countries were, you know, the only common link really is business, and you try

and talk outside the business and there is very little common ground.

So, one of the things I've learned is that if you're going to

to communicate with people whose mother tongue is not the English,

don't try and use too many colloquial expressions,

don't try and crack too many jokes

because it might go over the head completely and you may lose them.

So, what do you think of that piece of advice there, Richard?

I know that many students,

they like to learn idioms and colloquial expressions

from a British English or American English,

but there's a little warning there from Stelios, isn't there?

Yeah, I mean I think - I think you're right.

Students do like learning idioms and I think it can be fun,

but I think you can spend a lot of time learning these idioms,

and if you're speaking with non-native speakers,

maybe it's not the best way to spend your time.

Maybe they're not really going to be understood.

So, if you're speaking to native speakers,

then, then that's quite a natural thing,

but other non-native speakers of English might,

might not exactly understand what you mean, when you use these idioms and jokes.

Yeah. Better to keep it simple, really, simple and clear.

So, if we go back now to thinking

about helping people who may be wanting to improve their English,

what piece of advice can you give them today?

Well, first of all be aware that you need to organise your speaking,

which hopefully people are now, and listen for ways

in which people organise their speaking. So, next time you're listening,

don't just listen to the content

but listen how it's put together, OK?

If you can read an interview or maybe if you've got a course book,

look at the transcript, the listening in the back of the book

and pick out ways in which the speaking is organised, OK?

Look at the way people add information,

the way they contrast information,

the way they introduce new ideas,

or maybe interrupt

other people, and so on. The way it's organised, very generally.

So, there's more than just 'and' and 'but'.

Exactly, yes.

And what about that last piece of advice

about using colloquial expressions, idioms and jokes, and so on?

Yeah, I think using colloquial expressions, idioms

can be very nice if you're speaking with a native speaker.

If you're speaking with non-natives

maybe these things will not be understood,

will make you not very clear.

So, when you're learning English, maybe focus,

concentrate your time

more on learning other things, and focus on speaking as clearly

and as simply as possible.

For today, Richard Hallows - thank you very much.

Thank you, Callum.

And now, just time to hear

today's Better Speaking tips again.

Listen out for ways that people organise what they're going to say.

Listen to how good speakers of English add information.

For example, they might say:

'and another thing is',

or perhaps they might say 'and on top of that',

or they might just stress the word and: Stelios speaks very fluently

and organises it very well.

So, we can stress the

'and' to make it very clear that there's some extra information coming.

Listen to how speakers of English contrast information, for example,

by saying 'but in fact' or by saying 'on the other hand'.

I came here by bus today and I left my house very early.

I thought it would take a long time.

But in fact, it took me twenty minutes.

Notice the way fluent speakers

introduce new ideas or new information, for example,

they might say 'an interesting question is' or 'let me tell you about'.

Remember the way that Stelios asked a question,

and then went on to answer it himself.

And in fact, when people ask me,

do you, I mean, you come from Greece.

Why did't you start the airline in Greece,

or why did you go to France or Germany or everything else?

And one of the things I say

is that, you know, Greece is too small.

If you're studying English at school or college,

and you have a coursebook, there

may be transcripts of listening material in the book.

If there are, read them and highlight the phrases that speakers

use to add information,

contrast information, introduce new ideas and so on.

Look at the transcript of the listening in the back of the book

and pick out ways in which the speaking is organised.