Why Joy Is a State of Mind | Angélique Kidjo | TED

譯者: Wenjer Leuschel 審譯者: Shelley Tsang 曾雯海

Femi Oke: I have a theory that Africans have this hotline to joy.

費米·奧凱（FO）：我有個理論 我認為非洲人有一條喜樂熱線

安潔莉克‧吉韮（AK）：是的

Angélique Kidjo: Oh yeah.

FO：我們互相打招呼 我們歡迎彼此

FO: We greet each other, we welcome each other.

There's, within us as a continent,

我們的內裏好像有一片大陸

there is great joy.

有很大的喜樂

AK: Absolutely.

AK：沒錯 那是我們的一種心境

It's a state of mind for us.

It's either laugh or die.

不笑就會死 我們沒得選擇

We don't have the choice.

And that's where the proverbs come from,

那是這個諺語的出處

that's where all those mimic, sometime --

所有那些仿效的 有時——

can be an insult,

是種侮辱 或者說：「 滾開

or going, "Get out of here.

You're making a fool of yourself."

你這是在給自己出糗」

Our body, we have signs.

我們的身體 我們有手勢

And we look at each other

我們看著彼此

and the situation ...

以及情況—— 可能是很糟的情況

it might be a dire situation,

and then we start laughing and go,

接著我們開始笑並說：

"Somebody make a huge mistake.

「有人犯了個大錯

And you are in a ditch,

你陷入水溝 甚至爬不出來了」

You can't even get yourself out."

And we laugh and we're happy at the same time.

我們笑著 同時很開心

That's why I say it's a state of mind.

那就是為什麼我說它是一種心境

FO: I have seen people watch you perform, and they’re in the audience,

FO：我看過看你表演的人

他們就在聼眾席中

they are mesmerized, they are smiling,

他們像被催眠了 他們會微笑

they are joyful.

他們充滿喜樂

Do you have an awareness of what you are doing to your audience?

你可有意識到你對你的觀眾 有什麼影響嗎？

AK：沒有，我完全沒有意識到

AK: No, I don't have any awareness

because for me, every concert is a start over.

因為對我而言每場音樂會 都是重來一次

I never take any public for granted

because you never know what the concert is going to be.

我從來不把任何觀眾視為理所當然 因為你永遠不知道音樂會會如何

You can have plan in your head,

你可以在腦中盤算

you can have your set list and everything.

可以規劃好表演曲目等等

It’s just to help you, it’s just like,

那只是用來協助你 就像是……

a parameter that you put in there to be able to perform.

為了能夠表演而放進去的一個參數

But what happens after that is out of your hands.

但那之後會發生什麼 就超出你的掌控了

That's the power of music.

那就是音樂的力量

When I'm holding my microphone,

當我拿著我的麥克風

for me, stage is my sanctuary.

對我來說 舞台是我的聖所

FO: I was looking up some of the comments people write

FO：我剛才在看一些

在線上透過 YouTube 看你的人 寫下的留言

when they watched you online on YouTube.

Now, normally I wouldn't do this, but this is fine.

通常我不會這樣做 但這次沒問題 並不可怕

This is not scary.

"Pure love for Mama Angelique.

「純粹的愛 給安潔莉克媽媽

A beautiful ball of energy."

一個美麗的正能量」

AK: (Laughs)

AK：（笑）

FO: You know what you're doing.

FO：你知道你在做什麼

AK: Well, being on stage for me is the most important thing.

AK：嗯 對我來說 站在舞台上

是最重要的事

I hate to be in studio,

我討厭在錄音室裡

but I've had to learn throughout the years

但要經過很多年我才學到

that I need to be in the studio to be able to perform,

我必須要先進到錄音室 才能夠站上舞台去表演

to be on stage.

And that energy that we're talking about, the public give it to me.

而我們在談的那種能量 是聼眾給我的

I can't keep it.

我不能把他留著

If I keep it, I will explode.

若我把它留著 我就會爆炸 我的意思是說 面對現實吧

I mean, just face it.

And I can't sleep, like, when I finish a concert,

音樂會結束之後 我無法入眠

it takes me like four hours for me to dwindle down

我需要也許四個小時後 才能寧靜下來

and to be able to sleep.

才能入睡

It’s terrible, because I’m wired up.

很嚴重

因為我很興奮 我不需要依靠藥物

I don't need no drugs, I don't drink coffee.

I don't drink alcohol, I don't take anything, I don't need it.

我不喝咖啡 我不喝酒 我什麼都不沾 我不需要

The music is my drug.

音樂就是我的藥物

So therefore, when I'm onstage,

因此 當我站在舞台上

I'm just trying to convey the happiness,

我只是試著傳遞快樂

the joy

喜樂

and the strength that we have as human beings

以及我們人類擁有的力量

to prevail in every circumstance.

能戰勝任何情況的力量

Because music has shown me,

因為音樂讓我看到

when I'm facing the public,

當我面對聼眾時

I see people from around the world,

我看到來自世界各地的人

all different skin tones

各種不同的膚色

and probably all people that speak different languages,

可能大家也都說不同的語言

that makes you humble.

那會讓你謙卑

FO: And you've gone so beyond what would be expected of somebody

FO：你已經遠遠超越了 大家對於你這種背景的

音樂家所抱持的期待

with your profile as a musician.

You are not just a musician, you're not just an artist.

你不只是個音樂家 你不只是個藝術家

You are also an educator.

你也是個教育家

AK: Education is everything.

AK：教育是一切。

And when I started this journey with my foundation Batonga,

當我開始我的 Batonga 基金會的 這段旅程時

one thing I have in mind is what my father always used to say.

我腦海中浮現的一件事 就是我父親常說的話

An educated person is a peacemaker.

受過教育的人是 和平的締造者

And it's true,

這話說得沒錯

because when you are educated

因為當你接受教育

and understand the connectivity,

並了解互聯性時 便知道 在我們所處的世界中的一切

everything in the world we live in is connected, even us.

都是互聯的 甚至包括我們自己

And if there's one thing we learned during the pandemic,

如果說 我們在疫情期間 學到了一件事的話

it's that we cannot live alone.

那就是我們不能獨自生活

Lockdown or not, it becomes a point where we need others

無論是否封城 我們都需要有其他人

to be able to celebrate our own humanity.

來慶祝自己的人性

From the moment I started going to school, it triggered something in me.

從我開始上學的那一刻起 它就觸發了我內心的某些東西

Not only the curiosity, but I was thirsty of learning.

不只是好奇心 還有我對學習的渴望

What can I learn every day?

我每天能學到什麼？

And I would come home and I ask questions.

我會回家問問題

And I'm lucky enough to have 10 brothers and sisters

我很幸運地 有 10 位

that come before.

兄姊

Some of them have been there.

他們之中的某些人 曾經上過那個學校

So if I ask questions, somebody's always going to answer me.

所以如果我問問題 總是會有人回答我

And then I get to high school

然後我進入高中 我開始看到教育的不同面向

and I start seeing a different side of education.

因為當我小學畢業時 我的大多數女性朋友都制定了計劃

Because when I finished primary school,

most of my girlfriends, we made plan.

當我們進入高中時 我們會做這做那的

When we get to high school, we're going to do this and that.

其中有一些就從雷達上消失了

Some of them disappeared from the radar.

And I’d be asking the question: “Why aren’t they here?”

於是我會問自己一個問題： 「他們為什麼不在這裡呢？」

Then, my girlfriend in the same street where I grew up,

然後我的一位女性朋友 在我長大的同一條街上

right across my house,

就住在我家對面

never make it to high --

沒有來高中上學——

And I'm like, "Dad, what is going on?"

我問了「爹呀 這是怎麽一囘事呢？」

And then he went and found out that she got married.

然後他去發現 她結婚了

And I was --

當時——

It was a day that I'm like,

當時我在想

"Is it worth living, if at that age you're going to marry somebody

「如果在那個年紀 你要嫁給一個 發生了怎麽一回事都不知道的人

without me knowing what was going on?"

這樣值得活下去嗎？」

So to start my foundation, secondary school,

所以我開始的基礎中學 就是為讓那些年輕女孩們爭取時間

is to allow those young girls to buy time.

To have a future, to decide the future they want to have

以便擁有未來並決定自己 想要怎樣的將來

instead of being married young

而不是年輕輕時結婚

and end up dying on a delivering bed.

結果在產床上垂死

So for me, education not only

所以對我而言 教育不僅 讓我們瞭解這個世界的複雜性

allowed us to understand the complexity of this world,

它還釋放了

我們在面對不公義

it also unleashed the power

面對我們的權利時 學習到什麼是對的、什麼是錯的

that we have to understand when we stand in front of injustice,

而必須預先理解到的力量

our rights,

what is right and what is wrong.

And when it comes to women,

而當談及女性時

especially in the continent of Africa,

尤其是談及非洲大陸的女性時

I start realizing that the vision of my father for women

我開始意識到 我父親對女性的願景

is totally different from the vision of the father of my friends.

與我朋友們的父親的願景 完全不同

Because when I go to their home,

因為當我去朋友家裏時

I couldn't speak because it was not allowed.

我不能說話 因為這是不被允許的

You have to be given permission to speak.

你必須獲得許可才可以發言

While in my house, you have something in your mind,

在我家裡卻是 你有什麼想法

go right ahead.

就儘管說吧

Somebody's going to answer you.

總會有人回答你的

And I start seeing the differences, and I said,

我開始看到其中的差異 於是我說了：

“How can we break this cycle

「我們要如何才能打破 這種惡性循環：

of always women have to be the ones that get quiet

女人必須保持安靜

and men speak up even when they say nonsense.

而男人即使在胡說八道時 也還要很大聲說話」

FO: The Batonga Foundation, it creates opportunities for women and girls.

FO：Batonga 基金會是為 婦女和女孩創造機會而成立的

It creates a future for them.

它是要為他們開創未來的

It sounds easy, though, to say that:

不過，這聽起來很容易：

creates opportunities for women and girls, easy.

為婦女和女孩創造機會 很容易吧

But it's not.

但卻不容易呢

Can you give us an example of your advocacy work

您是否能給我們一個例子 說明你宣傳的

that has been difficult

工作雖然很困難

but you've worked through it

但您已經克服了困難

and you've seen success and happiness the other side?

並且看到了成功和幸福的 另一面呢？

AK: The hardest thing ...

AK：最困難的事...

when I started was not being able to get the girl to speak.

當我剛開始時 我無法讓開口女孩說話

It was breaking my heart.

這讓我感到心碎

"What is your name?"

「你叫什麼名字？」

There's no answer, they look at you like.

沒有回應 她們就 盯著你這樣看

And I’m like, “Why?

我心裏想「為什麼是這樣呢？ 為什麼？請告訴我你需要什麼

Why? Tell me what you need.

I'm here to help.

我是來幫忙的 我不會告訴你應該怎麼做」

I'm not going to tell you what to do."

From the day they realize

從他們意識到並有信心 知道我不會在這裡

評判他們的選擇的那天起

and have confidence

that I'm not here to judge their choices,

他們之中的某些人就可能

some of them were already mothers.

And you have a lot of pride

已經生了娃 當了媽了

when you're talking to underprivileged people.

當你與弱勢群體交談時 你會感到很自豪

Because I decided from the get-go

因為我從一開始

to walk the dirt road where no one wants to go

就決定走沒人願意 走的土路

because that's where you have fewer opportunities.

因為那裡的機會較少

And I was not going to let those girls be marginalized and left in limbo.

我不會讓這些女孩 被邊緣化並陷入困境

So from the moment they start speaking,

因此對我來說 從他們開始說話的 那一刻起

to me,

is the moment I start seeing how we can move forward together.

我就開始考慮 我們如何一起前進

So we start doing,

所以我們開始做

as an organization, we needed data, right?

作為一個組織 我們需要數據是吧？

因為我已經這樣做了十年

Because I've done it ten years,

sending people to high school, they end up in university,

送人們去高中 他們最終進入大學

all that kind of stuff.

But I wanted to understand why

但是我想了解為什麽

and the reason of the drop out of the girls.

女孩們輟學 及其輟學的真正原因

So through that, we find out many different reasons.

透過這一點 我們發現了很多不同的原因

One of the reasons of the drop out is that in primary school,

輟學的原因之一是

the teachers were not good enough,

小學的老師不夠好

so they didn’t have the tools to succeed in secondary school.

所以他們沒能在 中學取得成功的工具

And there's so much ammunition you can go through

當你有許多彈藥可以使用

when you appear to be a stupid person

而你其實並不愚蠢 你只是沒有工具

and you're not stupid, you just don't have the tools.

因此你看起來像個蠢人時

Then you drop out.

你就會在此時退學了

Pregnancy, of course, and family poverty.

當然還有懷孕和家庭貧困的問題

And one thing that came out of that data collection

從資料收集中得出的一件事是

is all of the girls say, “We need a safe space.

所有女孩都說： 「我們需要一個安全的空間

我們需要一個 可以互相交談

We need a place where we can talk to one another

and we can work together and support one another."

可以一起工作 互相支持的地方」

我話說出口： 「就這麽做了」

I said, "It's done."

So we start creating the girl club

因此，我們開始創建女孩俱樂部

and built a curriculum based on their need.

並根據她們的需求 制定課程

And they ask to be taught how to prevent rape.

她們要求學習 如何防止被強暴

要怎麼才能逃離呢？

How can they run away?

她們要怎麼做才能避免被强暴呢？

How can they do things?

So we come up with simple thing.

所以我們想出了簡單的做法

天黑時不要出門

Don't go out when it's getting dark.

When you're walking and you have a shadow behind you

當你走路時 身後有陰影

and you feel uncomfortable, don't start,

讓你感到不舒服 不要驚慌

don't try to be courageous.

不要逞强

Don't try to be daring.

不要嘗試裝大膽

Run away.

逃跑就是了

And we prepared the village.

我們在村莊做了解説

If a girl comes to your house,

如果有一個女孩到你們家

keep her there until the family member can come

把她留在那裡直到 她的家人來接她

因為街上有危險

because there's a danger in the street.

So we start the whole thing like that.

所以我們就這樣開始了整件工作

What is going on today

今天發生的事情

that I’m really proud of

讓我真正感到自豪的是

is that those young girls

那些年輕女孩

are becoming entrepreneurs and creating jobs.

正在成為企業家並創造就業機會

They are in total control of what they do with their money.

她們完全控制自己用錢 做什麼

They decided they're going to save money.

她們自己決定要存錢

不是我替她們決定的

It's not me.

For the children not to go through this again.

為了讓孩子們不再 經歷這樣的事

What they want is to break the cycle of poverty.

她們想要的是打破貧窮的 惡性循環

The next step that I'm taking

我的下一步是

is to go to the northern part of my country, Benin.

前往我國貝寧的北部

The girls in Benin, at eight years old,

貝寧的女孩在八歲時會

are sent to the man that's going to marry them home,

被送到將把她們娶回家的男人那裡

they become maids,

她們會成為女傭

until they have --

直到她們——

And I want to break that cycle.

我想打破這個惡性循環

I've been working hard.

我一直很努力做這件事

I’ve been asking for help with this for so long.

長期以來我一直在尋求 這方面的幫助

We're going to start there with local organizations.

我們將從當地組織開始

We don't bring anybody from outside.

我們會不帶任何外來的人去

We work with the people that know the needs.

我們要與了解 需求的人合作

We work with the village,

我們要與村莊

the head of the villages, the mothers.

村長 母親們一起工作

We want people to see for themselves the progress we are making

我們希望人們能夠親眼目睹 我們所取得的進步

and for them, to allow them to listen to the kids

並為他們自己看到 讓他們能夠聆聽他們

that they never do.

從未聽過的孩子們的聲音

FO: What is the difference

FO：改變一代人的生活

between the pleasure you get from changing a generation's life

所帶來的快樂 與在重大活動的舞台上表演

to the pleasure of being on stage at a major event, performing,

觀眾為之瘋狂的快樂

兩者有什麼不同？

and the crowd is going wild?

What's the difference between that kind of joy?

這樣的喜樂有什麼差別呢？

AK: They are two totally different joys.

AK：這是兩種完全不同的喜樂

The joy of seeing these girls

很令人欣慰地

being articulate today,

看到今天這些女孩子能言善道

talking truth to power to the head of villages

向當權者説出真話

telling them, "No one is touching us anymore.

告訴她們的村長： 「沒有人能再觸摸我們了

No one have the right to touch my boob, no."

沒有人有權利碰觸我的胸部 絕對不能」

And they're adamant.

而且她們很堅定

I mean, the joy at taking that is that finally,

我的意思是說 接受這一點的喜樂

在於你終於可以沒有危險

you can speak up with no danger.

毫無畏懼地暢所欲言了

With no fear.

I mean, empowering people to that point

我的意思是說賦予人們權力

makes me more humble.

讓我變得更加謙卑

I don't even know, sometimes I'm like,

我甚至不知道 有時我會想

"Where is the hole that I can drive in and then disappear,

「我可以開車進去 然後消失在那裏的洞裡

and let them be."

讓她們去吧」

But they won't let me go.

但是她們不讓我走

They say, "We want you to come and see us,

他們會說「我們希望 妳來看我們

and then we learn from you."

然後我們向妳學習」

But I learn more from those girls than I can ever learn from anybody.

可是我從這些女孩子身上學到的 比從任何人身上學到的都要更多

The joy of being onstage is different,

登上舞台的喜樂是不同的

it's planting seeds worldwide

它在全世界播下種子

for people to see their capacity,

讓人們看到他們自己的能力

what they are capable of.

和他們能做出什麽能量

How many times after concert people will come to me and say,

有多少次音樂會結束後 人們會來找我說：

"Angelique, how can we help?"

「安潔莉克 我們能幫忙嗎？」

And I'm like, "How can you help?

而我說「你能幫忙我什麽呢？

Come on.

好吧

Your neighbors.

就是你的鄰居

Start looking at them.

你要開始看顧他們

You can volunteer your time for homework,

你可以自願花時間 幫他們做家庭作業

there's so much you can do in your own country.

在你們自己的國家裏 你可以做許多事情

Don't think that Africa is just the country where we need help.

不要以為我們非洲 只是需要幫忙的國家

We don't need help.

我們不需要幫忙

We need collaboration."

我們需要的是共同合作」

FO: Did you warm up your voice today?

FO：你今天熱了身嗎？

AK：是的 我今天已經熱了身

AK: Yes, I did.

FO: What do you sing to yourself to cheer yourself up?

FO：你唱什麼歌 給自己打氣？

What do you sing and is like,

你唱什麽樣的歌都很像樣

"Oh, that was better than Prozac."

「哦 比百憂解藥物還要強呢」

AK: (Singing)

AK：（唱歌）

(Laughs)

（笑聲）

We can sit here for days.

我們可以坐在這裡好幾天呢

FO: So glad you warmed up.

FO：很高興你熱了身

When you see your Grammys lined up,

當你看到你的格萊美獎排成一排時

and they're all shiny and extraordinary,

它們各個都閃亮而非凡

I'm not even going to name how many, because every time I do,

我甚至不會說出有多少個 因為每次我這樣做

you get more and then this chat will date,

你都會獲得更多的格萊美獎 然後這個聊天就變成另一個演唱日

so the many, multiple Grammys that you have won,

你贏了那麽多格萊美獎了

when you look at them,

當你看著它們的時候

Do you, "Whoo!"

你會不會說「哇！」

(Laughs)

（笑聲）

Does it feel good?

感覺還好嗎？

AK: It feels good.

AK：感覺很好

And at the same time, as I said before,

同時 正如我之前所說的

it is a responsibility.

這是一種責任

I mean, my work,

我的意思是說 這是我的工作

I've been nominated first time at the Grammys, it was in 1993, '94.

我第一次被提名在葛萊美頒獎典禮上 那是在 1993、94 年

And the first Grammy I won was 2007.

我第一次贏得葛萊美獎是在 2007 年

And I said to people,

我對人們說

don't take Grammy for granted.

不要認為葛萊美來得 是理所當然的

It's not about how many likes you have,

是理所當然的 重要的不是你得到多少個贊

it's what you have to say.

而是你要說的是什麼

What you are bringing to the table.

你帶來的是什麼

How you are impacting the world

您要如何影響世界

and how you are changing the music business as it is.

以及您正在如何改變 音樂產業的現狀

And for me,

對我而言

that responsibility is always at the core of everything I do.

這種責任感一直都是 我所做的一切的核心

When I'm setting myself to write new songs,

當我準備要寫新歌時 我不會考慮葛萊美獎

I don't think about Grammys.

All I think about,

我只想到

how this song would help people.

這首歌將如何幫助人們

What impact is it going to have?

將會產生什麼影響？

FO: I know you plan.

FO：我知道你的計劃。

I know you have ideas about what you want to do next.

我知道您對下一步 要做什麼是有想法

For many artists, it would be, you know,

對許多藝術家來說 你知道的

how do you want to spend your sunset years?

你想如何度過晚年？

But you have extraordinary longevity in your family.

但對你的家族卻要是非常長壽的

So you have another half a lifetime still to go.

所以你還有下半生要走

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We are going to be going to 100-year-old Angélique Kidjo concert.

我們馬上就要聼 100 歲的 安潔莉克·吉韮音樂會了

And you're still going to be, "Let's go."

而你仍然會說「我們走吧」

AK: Yeah, I'll be running around.

FO: So it feels kind of weird to talk about legacy.

AK：沒錯呢 我會到處跑 FO：所以談論遺產感覺有點奇怪

But what do you want people who follow your work,

但你希望 人們矚目你的工作

admire your work, see joy in your work,

欣賞你的工作 看到你工作中的喜樂

what do you want them to take away from it?

你希望他們從你的工作中 得到什麼？

AK: Well, what I want people to take away from my work

AK：嗯 我希望人們從我的作品中 獲得的是自己的價值

is their own worth, people's worth.

人們自己的價值

We have too many people that think that they are worth nothing.

我們還有太多的人 認為自己一文不值

And that hurts me.

這令我感到傷心

And when you give birth to a child,

當你生下一個孩子

when a human being is coming out of your body,

當一個人從你的身體裡 生出來時

一切都會改變

everything changes.

Priorities,

優先事項 重要的事情

what matters,

you learn to go to the core of things.

你要學會抓住事情的核心

What I want people to remember is that

我希望人們記得的是

you can fall beneath the Earth.

你有可能會掉到地球之下

But you always can rise.

但你總能夠站起來

Does not matter how hard it is.

不管有多困難

Get up, and live your life.

站起來 過好你的生活

You know it, and that's how we roll.

你知道的 這就是我們的發展方式

FO: I love you.

FO：我愛你

AK: Me too.

AK：我也是

Since the first time I met, it was a love story.

從第一次見面開始就是 一個愛情故事啦

(Laughter)

（笑聲）