How to Share Public Money Fairly | Maja Bosnic | TED

翻译人员: L Q 校对人员: Jenny Yang

So I come from Bosnia.

我来自波斯尼亚，

I mean, I live in Sweden now,

现在住在瑞典。

but you don't need to know my whole life story.

你不用了解我的人生经历。

But the story that I do want to share is from my home country.

我今天想分享有关我国家的故事。

So close to 50 percent of the land in Bosnia

波斯尼亚近有近50%的土地 用来发展农业和牧业。

is dedicated to agriculture and farming.

So the government decides to support farmers,

所以，政府为了资助农场主

to set up a budget,

设立了预算，

to set up the requirements for the people to receive the budget,

并对接受援助的人设立了领取条件，

and then to disburse the funds.

然后对其拨款。

So they do that, and towards the end of the process,

政府工作人员按照这样的步骤 开展工作，拨款进程接近尾声时，

they decide to analyze who really received these funds.

他们打算分析拿到政府拨款的人群。

And they did that,

随后,他们开始研究，

and the Ministry of Agriculture was shocked,

结果让农业部的工作人员感到意外，

because only one group of citizens received 90 percent of these funds.

因为仅有一群人拿到了该预算90%的资金。

And those were men, men working in agriculture.

这些人都是从事农业耕种的男性。

So where were the women?

为什么这其中没有女性？

Why didn't they have access to the funds?

她们为什么没有拿到拨款？

The Minister of Agriculture was surprised, because they didn't mean to discriminate.

农业部的工作人员非常吃惊， 因为他们并没有区别对待。

They knew there were women working in agriculture, right?

他们知道有女性从事农业耕种，对吧？

So they went back and analyzed the situation.

所以，他们回顾并且分析该情况。

And the problem was -- well, there were three things.

问题出在——以下三个方面。

The first thing is they didn't even know the gender of farmers,

第一，工作人员不清楚农民的性别，

because they'd never done gender analysis before.

因为他们之前从未做过性别分析。

So actually, they did know the sex disaggregation of cows,

他们的确知道奶牛的性别，

but not of people.

但是，却不知道人的。 （笑声）

(Laughter)

我先不谈这个--

I will let that sink a bit --

because gender is unimportant.

因为性别因素不是很重要。

The second issue is that the way they were distributing the funds

第二个问题在于工作人员拨款方式

could not possibly reach women.

不可能惠及女性。

Why? Because one of the conditions to get this subsidy

为什么呢？因为获得拨款的条件之一就是

was to give out a land ownership certificate,

提供土地所有权证书。

and we know that traditionally, women do not own land.

我们都知道，通常来说， 女性没有自己的土地。

And the second problem was that women didn't even know.

第二个问题是女性 甚至都不知道这个预算。

Why? Because the information was shared at forums that they do not participate in.

为什么呢？因为这些信息 在她们从未参与的论坛里发布。

But the story has a happy end, because when the ministry realized this,

但是，这件事有个皆大欢喜的结局， 因为农业部意识到了上述问题，

they changed these provisions.

工作人员更改了申请条件。

And with the help of gender experts from Bosnia,

借助波斯尼亚研究性别 问题方面专家的帮助，

we now see more and more women getting funds every year.

我们看到每年有越来越多的女性得到了拨款。

So what is the point of this story?

所以，这个故事的意义何在？

The point is not only that we should have sex-disaggregated data on people,

意义在于我们不仅需要建立 人类性别分类的数据，

not only cows.

而不仅仅是奶牛的。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But it's also that we can budget fair and equitably,

也需要公平公正地制定预算，

but we can't just run numbers blindly.

我们不能只盲目地统计数量。

We need to know the faces of the people that we are serving with public funds.

我们需要了解这些领取政府资金的人。

So this is really the heart of gender-responsive budgeting,

这是性别预算的核心，

or as I like to think of it, and maybe you, too,

我是这样想的，或许你们也有同样的想法，

common-sense budgeting.

常识性预算。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So, I'm an economist,

我是一名经济学家，

I work with public finance, so public finance and budgets,

与政府财政打交道， 公共财政和预算，

but my specialty is helping governments inject a gender perspective

但是，我擅长帮助政府 在财政决策和预算方面

in their financial decisions and budgets.

加入性别方面的考虑。

OK, so budgets are fairly simple, straightforward,

预算正如它所介绍的那样，

as it was introduced,

非常的简单、易懂，

and now, you are thinking,

但是，现在你会想，

"Well, that does not look fairly straightforward."

“好吧，这看起来并没有很简单。”

And it's intentionally done like that,

而且，有意这样做，

because this is how we often imagine the budget to be: so complex,

因为我们对预算通常的印象是： 制定起来很复杂，

so technocratic, bureaucratic we don't even want to engage.

需要大量技术含量，有 我们都不想涉及的繁文缛节。

But the reality is very different than that.

但是，现实却完全与之相反。

In fact, all our budgets,

事实上，我们所有的预算，

be it your own budgets or public budgets, or company budgets,

你们的私人预算，公共预算和公司预算，

go through the four logical steps.

都会经过这四个必然的流程。

The first step is, of course, we are calculating our revenues.

我们首先肯定是计算财政收入。

In the sense of the state, it would be taxes and fees, right?

对国家来说，就是税费，是吧？

The second step is budget approval.

然后要经过预算批准。

After we figure out what we will do with the funds,

我们规划好资金的用途，

it goes to the approval of the parliament.

还要经过议会的批准。

And then, the third step, my personal favorite,

之后就是我最喜欢的步骤，

is spending, or budget execution.

预算执行。

Ideally, according to priorities -- not my personal favorite.

按理来说，这一步是要根据 优先程度-而不是我个人的喜好。

And then, we go into control and budget oversight.

最后，我们要对预算进行控制和监管。

So whether we have actually spent the money as we planned,

监管我们是否按计划使用资金，

and also, whether we have achieved the objectives.

以及是否实现了目标。

So in the sense of the state,

所以，从国家的角度来说，

it would be an increased level of education,

就是要提高教育程度，

decreased level of poverty.

降低贫困率。

In the sense of the companies, it would be profit or income.

从公司的角度来说，就是利润和收入。 你知道我在做什么了吧。

You see where I'm going.

所以，到底是哪里出错了呢？

So what is really wrong with that?

It sounds perfectly logical.

这些步骤听起来非常的符合逻辑。

Well, what is wrong with that

问题就在于，照惯例，大多数国家，

is that traditionally, in most countries, if not all around the world,

甚至是全世界，

we assume, when we are planning the budget funds,

都认为，计划资金预算时，

that we are targeting one universal, homogenous human

我们计划的受益对象都是同样条件的人，

that will have the same access to funds, the same needs, almost.

他们基本上有同样的途径获取资金和同样的需求。

And then, a situation such as this one in the Ministry of Agriculture happens;

然后，就会出现之前农业部的问题。

then, we are surprised that our funds didn't really reach everybody.

我们惊讶于我们的资金并没有惠及每一个人。

So, what I want to also say here, what do we then do about that?

所以，我在这想说的是， 我们对此能做些什么？

In Ukraine, the government has analyzed close to 300 budget programs.

乌克兰政府分析了近300个预算项目。

And when I say “budget programs,”

我说“预算项目”时，

these are expenditures in health, education, sports,

指的是医疗、教育、体育、

infrastructure, defense --

基础建设和国防的开支--

anything you can think of that is funded with public funds.

任何你能想到的公共资金拨款。

And in every single one of these programs, we have found gender gaps.

我们在这些项目中都能找到性别差距。

We have found big gender gaps.

巨大的性别差距。

And these gender gaps were usually on account of women --

这些性别差距主要是女性--

they didn't have access.

她们没有机会。

And why did this happen?

为什么会出现这样的结果？

It happened because finance officers were just doing their jobs,

因为财务官员只是做了分内的工作，

and they were doing it really well.

做的也很出色。

They were planning for economic effectiveness, efficiency,

他们计划经济效益、经济效率和性价比。

value for money ...

我们真的很喜欢物有所值。

We really love value for money.

Performance budgeting, medium-term --

预算的实际使用情况，中期的--

all of these very valid economic objectives,

这些都是有效的经济目标，

very valid goals,

非常有效，

but we really didn't account for the needs of the people

但是，我们却没有考虑

that we are serving with these funds.

这些资金受益人的需求。

And let me illustrate that.

我解释一下这一点。

So we have analyzed the program for tuberculosis.

我们分析了肺结核这个项目，

So, treatment of patients with tuberculosis.

对肺结核病人的治疗。

And you may be now asking,

你也许会问，

"OK, but you know, you need to treat the patient.

“好吧，你知道，你需要治疗的是病人，

Why is gender important here?"

但为什么需要重视性别概念？”

But when we have done the analysis,

我们做该项分析时，

we have actually seen that 70 percent

我们确实发现70%的

of the patients with tuberculosis were men.

肺结核病人是男性。

And tuberculosis is a big issue in Ukraine.

肺结核是乌克兰需要解决的一个大问题。

And these were men living in remote areas, in rural areas, working in mines.

乌克兰有住在偏远地区，农村地区 以及在矿场工作的男性。

However, the preventive measures and the way they were designed,

但是，政府颁布的保护措施和手段

they didn't account for it.

并没有将这些人考虑进来。

They were actually targeting those sectors,

他们将目光放在了其他领域，

such as education and health,

例如教育和医疗，

where women traditionally dominate.

这些领域，通常来讲， 女性占大多数。这挺好的。

And this is fine,

但是，政府并没有考虑到这些群体中男性的需求。

but they really didn’t account for the needs of the men in these groups.

And why?

为什么呢？

Because gender equality was not important in the budget decision.

因为他们认为性别平等 在预算决策中并不重要。

So what I'm trying to illustrate here

我想说的是，

is not only that we need to account for gender equality

我们不仅需要考虑性别平等

to achieve our objectives of equality,

来实现平等的目标，

but we also need to account for it to make more common-sense budgetary decisions,

而且需要考虑性别平等来做更多常识性的预算决策，

more effective and efficient budgets.

以及更有效和效率的预算。

So how do we do that?

所以，我们应该怎么做呢？

It looks equally entertaining,

这看起来同等的有趣。

but now, we also add gender,

现在，我们加入了性别因素，

so it's a total mess, and we would think, "How do we even go about that?"

这看起来很混乱，我们会想， “我们该怎样利用性别因素？”

But of course, it's not as complex as that,

当然，这并没有我们想的那么复杂，

because in the heart of this work is gender analysis.

因为这项工作的核心就是性别分析。

And what do I mean by that?

我的意思是说，

So when we are planning, as finance officers,

我们像财政官员一样谋划

any financial or fiscal decision,

任何一项金融或财政相关的决定时，

meaning when we are planning introducing a new tax, for example,

例如，我们计划推出一项新的税收，

the core is to analyze how will that influence

我们最需要去做的就是 分析这项新税收会对整个社会的不同群体

different groups in a society?

产生什么样的影响。

So will we have our gender gaps increased --

所以，我们希望看到性别差距加大吗？

we don’t want to do that --

我们并不想看到这样的结果--

reduced or leave the status quo?

我们想缩小或者改变现状吗？

So, of course, we want to reduce them,

当然，我们想缩小性别差距，

and I just want to put it here as well,

并且，我想说，

in most countries -- not all, unfortunately,

大多数国家- 很可惜， 并不是所有国家，

but in a lot of countries around the world,

世界上大多数国家，

we have a very solid legislative framework for gender equality.

由关于性别平等可靠的法律框架。

We have commitments.

我们有保障。

But when it comes to budget and finance,

但是，说到预算和财政，

that's where, suddenly, the story evaporates.

这些就都没有了。

So when it comes to money,

谈到钱，

it's not really analyzed for gender impact.

也没有分析过性别的影响。

So this is really important,

性别平等很重要，

and we do this in, as I said, three steps.

我们需要按照我说的三个步骤做。

I will take you very fast through these steps, don't worry.

不用担心，我将带你们非常快速的过一遍这三个步骤。

So the first step is really to do a situation analysis.

首先，我们要做一个情景分析。

So in our agriculture example,

以我们刚才提到的农业案例来说，

if we had done a situation analysis,

如果我们做过情景分析，

and if we had known the gender gaps in this sector,

而且了解这个领域的性别差距，

we wouldn't have been surprised.

我们就不会感到意外。

We would have known that women do not own land,

我们会了解到女性没有属于自己的土地，

so we wouldn't give this as a requirement,

就不会将这一项作为申请的条件之一，

and we would definitely have known that we need to inform them

我们会用不同的方式通知她们这项政策。

in a different way.

所以，这是第一步要做的。

So this is the first step.

The second step is related to my example with sex disaggregation,

第二步，你们会从一开始就记得，

you will remember from the beginning.

我关于性别分类的例子。

So we really need to know the beneficiaries

我们需要了解要提供拨款的

that we are trying to serve.

受益人。

And now you are thinking, "This sounds very obvious,"

现在，你想到，“这听起来很不错，”

but it's not done.

但是这还根本没有实现。

And the third step, of course, is to know the procedures.

当然，第三步就是要了解程序步骤。

How will we give this budget out, who will have access?

我们通过什么方式将预算发出？ 哪些人会受到这些预算？

What will be the excluded groups?

排除在外的群体又是哪些？

And that's it.

就是这样步骤。

And now, I will just share some good news, I think.

现在，我想，我可以分享一些好消息。

It's that around 80 countries around the world

世界上约有80个国家

are working with gender budgeting.

正在做性别相关的预算。

And please, if you have an interest,

如果你有兴趣，

just see if your own country is one of them.

你可以看看你的国家是否在其中。

But when I say they are working with gender budgeting,

这些国家有性别相关的预算，

that does not mean that their whole budget is gender-responsive.

但并不意味着他们所有的预算都是考虑了性别因素的。

That would be my dream.

这是我的一个梦想。

But my personal hero is Austria. Why?

我个人很崇拜奥地利。为什么呢？

Because they have gender budgeting entrenched in the constitution.

因为他们的性别预算纳入了宪法。

So that means that in Austria,

it cannot happen that you have an investment project

如果你有一个投资项目，

that you are doing without considering gender

是必须要将性别和性别平等考虑进去。

and gender equality.

Canada -- feminist government, gender-balanced cabinet --

加拿大--有男女平等的政府，有性别平衡的内阁--

and they are doing gender budgeting,

他们正在做性别预算，

but they are taking into account the needs of Indigenous groups of people.

而且他们也考虑到了本地土著人的需求。

So this is also something that we want to do

这些是我们想要做， 我们要去做的事。

and we have to do.

Let me take you to Morocco.

让我带你们来摩洛哥看一看。

Morocco is working with gender budgeting for 20 years.

摩洛哥做性别预算有近20年了。

Indonesia, with the help of the World Bank,

印尼，靠着世界银行的资助，

has just analyzed their whole budget system

分析了他们所有的预算系统

to make it more gender-responsive.

让其能够更好的做出社会性别回应。

And I need to take you again to Bosnia,

我们再回到波斯尼亚，

because I did start with that example.

我们最开始讲的案例。

Balkan countries are doing fantastic work, with the help of UN Women.

巴尔干半岛国家在联合国妇女署的帮助下， 做出了出色的工作。

So there is a lot of work happening,

这里有许多工作正在进行，

and I am now coming to an end,

现在，我要讲的故事已经接近尾声，

because you might now be wondering,

你可能想知道，

"OK, but what is in it for me?" in a sense.

“好吧，但，我能从中得到什么好处吗？” 从某种意义上来说，

"You are talking about public budgets,

“你说的是公共预算，

but I work in a company or NGO, or I'm self-employed," doesn't matter.

但是我在公司或者民间组织工作， 或者我是自由职业者。”这不重要。

So what is it? Why is it important for us?

所以，为什么性别平等对我们来说很重要？

Because this is our money.

因为这是我们的钱。

These are our budgets.

这是我们的预算。

We are filling these budgets --

我们来填充这些预算--

it's not some abstract money out there,

这不是抽象意义的资金。

so we have the right to demand it to be equitable, to be fair.

所以，我们有权利要求公平地使用这些钱。

That's one thing.

这是一点。

So it is important for countries, it's important for companies.

所以，这对国家来说很重要， 对公司来说很重要。

Of course, we should ask who is making decisions,

当然，我们也应该了解做决策的人选，

whose needs are being satisfied.

以及接受资金的人选，

And also, maybe, families.

也许，是家庭。

But who really has the voice, who is making decisions?

但是，谁有话语权，谁又在做决策呢？

It's interesting just to see, and then, to maybe be surprised,

我们仅仅是看看都非常有趣， 也许，还会感动意外，

that these ministries are not.

意外于不是这些政府部门。

So if you are interested, you are literally one click away --

如果你感兴趣，你就点击一下--

and I'm aware this sounds like a sales pitch,

我意识到这听起来像销售宣传，

but I am selling you the work of many, many gender-budgeting experts

但是，我是在向你推销 全世界许多性别预算专家的职责，

around the world,

他们已经从事研究这些概念数年了。

who have been, for years, working with these concepts.

So you have such a wealth of material

所以，你拥有来自

from UN Women, IMF, different scholars,

联合国妇女署，国际货币基金组织，不同的专家学者，

World Bank, Swedish government ...

世界银行以及瑞典政府等丰富的资源。

doesn’t matter, I will not go into all the wealth of materials.

不要担心，我不会对赘述所有的资源。

So it's all out there.

不过它们都客观存在

And if we do that, we will have the budgets

如果我们这样做，我们将会拥有

that will not only lead to gender equality,

促进社会平等的预算，

which is an amazing objective in itself,

这项预算本身也是一个伟大的目标，

but we will have better, more effective, more efficient, more fair budgets.

我们还会有更好，更有影响，更有效率的公正预算。

What's not to like?

还有比这更棒的吗？

So I hope next time we meet, maybe here again,

所以，我希望我们再见时， 也许，还在这里，

this type of gender-responsive budgeting will be called "budgeting."

社会性别预算将叫做“预算”。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声和欢呼）