How to Share Public Money Fairly | Maja Bosnic | TED

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Helen Chang

So I come from Bosnia.

我來自波士尼亞。

I mean, I live in Sweden now,

我現在住在瑞典， 但沒必要講我一生的故事。

but you don't need to know my whole life story.

But the story that I do want to share is from my home country.

但我想分享的故事，來自我的祖國。

So close to 50 percent of the land in Bosnia

波士尼亞有接近 50% 的土地

is dedicated to agriculture and farming.

是農業和耕作之用。

So the government decides to support farmers,

所以政府決定要支持農民，

to set up a budget,

設立一筆預算，

to set up the requirements for the people to receive the budget,

設立人民取得此預算的條件， 接著就把基金支付出去。

and then to disburse the funds.

So they do that, and towards the end of the process,

所以，他們這樣做，到了流程最後，

they decide to analyze who really received these funds.

他們決定要分析誰真的取得了基金。

And they did that,

他們做了，而農業部大吃了一驚，

and the Ministry of Agriculture was shocked,

because only one group of citizens received 90 percent of these funds.

因為 90% 的基金 都被一個族群給領走了。

And those were men, men working in agriculture.

就是男性，

從事農業工作的男性。

So where were the women?

那麼，女性到哪去了？ 她們為什麼無法取得基金？

Why didn't they have access to the funds?

The Minister of Agriculture was surprised, because they didn't mean to discriminate.

農業部很驚訝，因為 他們沒有歧視的意思。

They knew there were women working in agriculture, right?

他們知道也有女性靠農業維生。

So they went back and analyzed the situation.

於是他們回頭分析這個情況。

And the problem was -- well, there were three things.

問題在於——有三點。

The first thing is they didn't even know the gender of farmers,

第一，

他們甚至不知道農民的性別，

because they'd never done gender analysis before.

因為他們以前沒有做過性別分析。

So actually, they did know the sex disaggregation of cows,

所以，事實上，他們知道

牛是公的還是母的， 卻不知道人的性別。

but not of people.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I will let that sink a bit --

讓大家沉澱一下——

because gender is unimportant.

因為性別不重要。

The second issue is that the way they were distributing the funds

第二個問題是他們分配基金的方式

could not possibly reach women.

不可能接觸到女性。為什麼？因為

Why? Because one of the conditions to get this subsidy

取得補助的條件之一，

was to give out a land ownership certificate,

就是要提出土地所有權狀，

and we know that traditionally, women do not own land.

我們知道，傳統上， 女性無法擁有土地。

And the second problem was that women didn't even know.

而第二個問題是， 女性根本不知道。為什麼？

Why? Because the information was shared at forums that they do not participate in.

因為補助金的資訊是在女性 不會參與的討論區中分享的。

But the story has a happy end, because when the ministry realized this,

但這個故事有快樂的結局，

因為當農業部發現這個現象後 就改變了這些條款。

they changed these provisions.

And with the help of gender experts from Bosnia,

在波士尼亞的性別專家協助下，

we now see more and more women getting funds every year.

每年都有更多女性取得基金了。

So what is the point of this story?

所以，這個故事的重點是什麼？

The point is not only that we should have sex-disaggregated data on people,

重點不僅是我們應該要有

人的性別統計資料，不能只有牛的。

not only cows.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But it's also that we can budget fair and equitably,

還有，我們可以公平、 平等地編列預算，

but we can't just run numbers blindly.

但我們不能只是盲目地計算數字。

We need to know the faces of the people that we are serving with public funds.

我們必須要知道這些公共基金 服務對象的臉孔。

So this is really the heart of gender-responsive budgeting,

這就是性別回應預算編列的核心，

or as I like to think of it, and maybe you, too,

或者，我個人認為， 也許各位也這麼認為，

common-sense budgeting.

常識預算編列的核心。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So, I'm an economist,

我是經濟學家，

I work with public finance, so public finance and budgets,

我處理的是公共財政， 公共財政和預算，但我的專長

but my specialty is helping governments inject a gender perspective

是協助政府將性別觀點注入

in their financial decisions and budgets.

他們的財政決策和預算中。

OK, so budgets are fairly simple, straightforward,

好，所以預算算是簡單、直接，

as it was introduced,

如大家所知，

and now, you are thinking,

而現在，各位在想： 「那看起來並不直接。」

"Well, that does not look fairly straightforward."

And it's intentionally done like that,

那是故意的，

because this is how we often imagine the budget to be: so complex,

因為我們想像中的預算 通常是這樣的：好複雜、

好技術專家政治、官僚政治， 我們碰都不想碰。

so technocratic, bureaucratic we don't even want to engage.

But the reality is very different than that.

但現實很不一樣。

In fact, all our budgets,

事實上，我們所有的預算，

be it your own budgets or public budgets, or company budgets,

不論是你個人的預算、 公共的預算，或公司的預算，

go through the four logical steps.

都要經過四個邏輯步驟。

The first step is, of course, we are calculating our revenues.

第一步，當然，我們要 計算我們的收入。

In the sense of the state, it would be taxes and fees, right?

就國家來說，就是稅收和費用。

The second step is budget approval.

第二步

是預算核准，在我們決定 要把基金拿來做什麼之後，

After we figure out what we will do with the funds,

就要去給國會核准。

it goes to the approval of the parliament.

And then, the third step, my personal favorite,

接著，第三步，我個人的最愛，

is spending, or budget execution.

就是花費，或預算執行。

Ideally, according to priorities -- not my personal favorite.

理想上，是根據優先順序來 執行——不是我個人的最愛。

And then, we go into control and budget oversight.

接著就到了控制和預算監督。

So whether we have actually spent the money as we planned,

我們有沒有依照規劃來花錢，

and also, whether we have achieved the objectives.

以及我們有沒有達成目標。

So in the sense of the state,

所以，就國家來說就是

it would be an increased level of education,

增加教育、減少貧困。

decreased level of poverty.

In the sense of the companies, it would be profit or income.

就公司來說就是利潤或收入。 各位懂我的意思。

You see where I'm going.

So what is really wrong with that?

所以，那有什麼問題？

It sounds perfectly logical.

聽起來很合邏輯。

Well, what is wrong with that

問題在於，傳統上，

is that traditionally, in most countries, if not all around the world,

就算不是全世界， 至少在大部分的國家，

we assume, when we are planning the budget funds,

我們都假設當我們在 規劃預算基金時，目標對象是

that we are targeting one universal, homogenous human

單一個性質完全相同的人類族群，

that will have the same access to funds, the same needs, almost.

他們都能以同樣方式取得基金， 且幾乎有同樣的需求。

And then, a situation such as this one in the Ministry of Agriculture happens;

接著，像農業部的 這種狀況就發生了；

then, we are surprised that our funds didn't really reach everybody.

接著，我們很驚訝

我們的基金沒有觸及到每個人，

So, what I want to also say here, what do we then do about that?

所以，我也想談談，

我們要如何處理？

In Ukraine, the government has analyzed close to 300 budget programs.

在烏克蘭，政府分析了 近三百個預算計畫。

And when I say “budget programs,”

我說的「預算計畫」包括 健康、教育、運動、

these are expenditures in health, education, sports,

infrastructure, defense --

基礎建設、國防經費——

anything you can think of that is funded with public funds.

任何你能想出是靠公共基金 來資助的都包含在內。

And in every single one of these programs, we have found gender gaps.

在每一個計畫中，

我們都發現有性別落差。

We have found big gender gaps.

我們發現很大的性別落差。

And these gender gaps were usually on account of women --

且這些性別落差通常都是因為 女性——她們無法取得基金。

they didn't have access.

And why did this happen?

為什麼會這樣？

It happened because finance officers were just doing their jobs,

原因是因為財政官員都只是 在做他們的工作，且做得很好。

and they were doing it really well.

They were planning for economic effectiveness, efficiency,

他們的規劃會考量經濟效益、效率、

value for money ...

物有所值——

We really love value for money.

我們超愛物有所值——

Performance budgeting, medium-term --

績效預算制度、中期......

all of these very valid economic objectives,

這些都是非常有根據的經濟目標，

very valid goals,

but we really didn't account for the needs of the people

但我們卻沒有考量到這些基金 所服務的對象有什麼需求。

that we are serving with these funds.

And let me illustrate that.

讓我說明一下。

So we have analyzed the program for tuberculosis.

我們分析了結核病的計畫。

So, treatment of patients with tuberculosis.

結核病病人的治療。

And you may be now asking,

各位可能想問：

"OK, but you know, you need to treat the patient.

「好，但，你需要治療病人。 性別有什麼重要的？」

Why is gender important here?"

But when we have done the analysis,

但，當我們做了分析，

我們實際上發現，70% 的

we have actually seen that 70 percent

of the patients with tuberculosis were men.

結核病病人是男性。

And tuberculosis is a big issue in Ukraine.

在烏克蘭，結核病是很大的問題。

And these were men living in remote areas, in rural areas, working in mines.

這些人是住在偏遠地區、 鄉村地區，在礦坑工作的男性。

However, the preventive measures and the way they were designed,

然而，

預防措施以及這些措施的設計，

they didn't account for it.

並沒有考量這一點。

They were actually targeting those sectors,

他們的目標都是教育、健康等部門，

such as education and health,

where women traditionally dominate.

傳統上由女性主導的 部門，這也沒關係，

And this is fine,

but they really didn’t account for the needs of the men in these groups.

但他們真的沒有考量到 這些族群的男性需要什麼。

And why?

為什麼？

Because gender equality was not important in the budget decision.

因為在預算決策中， 性別平等並不重要。

So what I'm trying to illustrate here

我想要說明的是，

is not only that we need to account for gender equality

我們不僅需要

考量性別平等，達成平等的目標，

to achieve our objectives of equality,

but we also need to account for it to make more common-sense budgetary decisions,

但我們得要考量它， 才能做出更常識的預算決策，

more effective and efficient budgets.

更有效益和效率的預算。

So how do we do that?

我們要怎麼做？

It looks equally entertaining,

看起來也是一樣好玩，

but now, we also add gender,

但現在，我們也加上了性別，

so it's a total mess, and we would think, "How do we even go about that?"

所以整個一團亂，我們會想： 「這要怎麼進行啊？」

But of course, it's not as complex as that,

但，當然，沒有那麼複雜，

because in the heart of this work is gender analysis.

因為這項工作的核心就是性別分析。

And what do I mean by that?

我這樣說是什麼意思？

So when we are planning, as finance officers,

當我們財政官員在做規劃時，

any financial or fiscal decision,

任何財政或會計的決策，

meaning when we are planning introducing a new tax, for example,

比如，我們打算要收一種新的稅，

the core is to analyze how will that influence

核心是要分析

這個做法對於社會中 不同族群的影響是什麼。

different groups in a society?

So will we have our gender gaps increased --

我們會讓性別落差變大嗎？——

we don’t want to do that --

我們不希望這樣——

reduced or leave the status quo?

減少或維持現狀？

So, of course, we want to reduce them,

當然，我們會想減少落差， 在此我也想提一下，

and I just want to put it here as well,

in most countries -- not all, unfortunately,

在大部分國家—— 很不幸，不是所有國家，

but in a lot of countries around the world,

但在全世界許多國家中， 都有非常穩固的

we have a very solid legislative framework for gender equality.

性別平等的法律架構。

We have commitments.

我們有承諾。

But when it comes to budget and finance,

但，在預算和財政上，

that's where, suddenly, the story evaporates.

突然間，這些都不見了。

So when it comes to money,

所以，談到錢時，其實就 沒有去分析對性別的影響。

it's not really analyzed for gender impact.

So this is really important,

這很重要，且要用我剛才 提到的三步驟方法來做。

and we do this in, as I said, three steps.

I will take you very fast through these steps, don't worry.

我會很快帶大家走一遍 這些步驟，別擔心。

So the first step is really to do a situation analysis.

第一步是要做情況分析。

So in our agriculture example,

在剛才農業的例子中，

if we had done a situation analysis,

如果我們有先做情況分析，

and if we had known the gender gaps in this sector,

如果我們當時知道

在這個部門中的性別落差，

we wouldn't have been surprised.

就不會感到驚訝。

We would have known that women do not own land,

我們會知道女性沒有土地，

so we wouldn't give this as a requirement,

我們就不會把這一項列為條件，

and we would definitely have known that we need to inform them

且我們肯定會知道

要用不同的方式來通知她們。

in a different way.

So this is the first step.

這是第一步。

The second step is related to my example with sex disaggregation,

第二步，

如果各位還記得我開頭時 舉的性別統計資料例子，

you will remember from the beginning.

這就和它有關。

So we really need to know the beneficiaries

我們需要知道我們想要 服務的受惠人是什麼人。

that we are trying to serve.

And now you are thinking, "This sounds very obvious,"

你會想：「這聽起來很明顯。」

but it's not done.

但沒有人做。

And the third step, of course, is to know the procedures.

第三步，當然，就是要知道程序。

How will we give this budget out, who will have access?

我們要怎麼把預算 給出去？誰能取得？

What will be the excluded groups?

哪些族群會被排除？

And that's it.

就這樣。

And now, I will just share some good news, I think.

現在，讓我分享一些好消息。

It's that around 80 countries around the world

全世界大約有八十個國家

are working with gender budgeting.

都在努力做性別預算編列。

And please, if you have an interest,

拜託，如果你感興趣，

just see if your own country is one of them.

看看你的國家是否是其中之一。

But when I say they are working with gender budgeting,

但，我說它們在努力 做性別預算編列，

並不表示它們所有的預算 都是性別回應預算。

that does not mean that their whole budget is gender-responsive.

That would be my dream.

那是我的夢想。

But my personal hero is Austria. Why?

但我個人的英雄是奧地利。為什麼？

Because they have gender budgeting entrenched in the constitution.

因為他們在憲法中 就確立了性別預算編列。

So that means that in Austria,

那就表示，在奧地利， 有可能你有一個投資計畫，

it cannot happen that you have an investment project

that you are doing without considering gender

你在做的時候不用考慮 性別和性別平等。

and gender equality.

Canada -- feminist government, gender-balanced cabinet --

加拿大——女性政府， 性別平衡的內閣——

and they are doing gender budgeting,

他們在做性別預算編列， 但他們也有考量

but they are taking into account the needs of Indigenous groups of people.

原住民族群的需求。

So this is also something that we want to do

這也是我們想做的事， 必須要做的事。

and we have to do.

Let me take you to Morocco.

讓我帶大家去摩洛哥。

Morocco is working with gender budgeting for 20 years.

摩洛哥已經投入 性別預算編列二十年了。

Indonesia, with the help of the World Bank,

印尼，在世界銀行的協助之下，

has just analyzed their whole budget system

剛分析過了他們的整個預算體制，

to make it more gender-responsive.

讓它變得更性別回應。

And I need to take you again to Bosnia,

我得帶大家回到波士尼亞， 因為我是用那個例子做開端的。

because I did start with that example.

Balkan countries are doing fantastic work, with the help of UN Women.

在聯合國婦女署的協助下， 巴爾幹半島國家做得非常好，

So there is a lot of work happening,

有很多工作正在進行中。

and I am now coming to an end,

而我快講到尾聲了，

because you might now be wondering,

因為現在各位可能 在納悶：「好，但，

"OK, but what is in it for me?" in a sense.

我有什麼好處？」

"You are talking about public budgets,

「你談的是公共預算，但我在 公司或非營利組織工作，

but I work in a company or NGO, or I'm self-employed," doesn't matter.

或我是自僱者」無所謂。

So what is it? Why is it important for us?

所以，對我們有什麼重要性？ 因為這是我們的錢。

Because this is our money.

These are our budgets.

這些是我們的預算。

We are filling these budgets --

是我們在填滿這些預算—— 那並不是什麼抽象的錢，

it's not some abstract money out there,

so we have the right to demand it to be equitable, to be fair.

所以我們有權要求 預算要平等、公平。

That's one thing.

那是一點。所以對國家 和企業都很重要。

So it is important for countries, it's important for companies.

Of course, we should ask who is making decisions,

當然，我們應該要問誰在做決策，

whose needs are being satisfied.

滿足的是誰的需求。

And also, maybe, families.

也許也有家庭。

But who really has the voice, who is making decisions?

但誰能發聲？

誰在做決策？

It's interesting just to see, and then, to maybe be surprised,

很有趣的是看到，也許也感到驚訝，

that these ministries are not.

並不是這些部會。

So if you are interested, you are literally one click away --

如果你感興趣，

只需要滑鼠點擊一下——

and I'm aware this sounds like a sales pitch,

我知道這聽起來很像業務推銷，

but I am selling you the work of many, many gender-budgeting experts

但我是想推銷給你，

全世界許多許多性別預算 編列專家的努力成果，

around the world,

who have been, for years, working with these concepts.

他們投入了多年時間在這些觀念上。

So you have such a wealth of material

所以各位有如此豐富的素材，

from UN Women, IMF, different scholars,

來自聯合國婦女署、

國際貨幣基金組織、不同的學者、

World Bank, Swedish government ...

世界銀行、瑞典政府……

doesn’t matter, I will not go into all the wealth of materials.

都無所謂，我無法全部列出來，

So it's all out there.

都可以取得。

And if we do that, we will have the budgets

如果我們這麼做，

我們的預算

that will not only lead to gender equality,

不僅能促成

性別平等這個很了不起的目標，

which is an amazing objective in itself,

but we will have better, more effective, more efficient, more fair budgets.

我們也會有更好、

更有效益、更有效率、 更公平的預算。

What's not to like?

全部是好的！

So I hope next time we meet, maybe here again,

我希望下回我們見面時， 也許也是在這裡，

this type of gender-responsive budgeting will be called "budgeting."

這種性別回應預算編列會被稱為

「預算編列」。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌聲及歡呼）