How Film Changes the Way We See the World | Ava DuVernay | TED

翻译人员: Jinnie Sun 校对人员: Laixi Kang

Pat Mitchell: So, Ava, I told you this already,

帕特·米切尔（Pat Mitchell）： 艾娃，我已经告诉过你了，

thank you for the special privilege to see the film.

感谢你给我特别的机会看了这部电影。

I wish it was something that we could share

我真希望现在就可以 把它放映给在座的所有人，

with each and every one of you,

but here, I will tell you,

但是在这里，我要告诉你们，

you absolutely must see "Origin" when it comes to a theater.

等到《美国不平等的起源》（Origin） 上映了，你们一定得去看看。

But knowing the book

不过，当你了解了原著， 其复杂性和挑战性，

and how complex and challenging

and how deeply researched the thesis of this monumental piece of work,

以及这部具有里程碑意义的作品的主旨 已被多么深入地研究过，

that, as I said, left my heart pounding and my mind reeling,

正如我说过的， 这个作品令我触目惊心，

what inspired you to take this project on and translate it to a feature film?

是什么激发了你开展这个项目 并将其改编成故事片的灵感？

Ava DuVernay: I'm always happy to sit with you,

艾娃·德约列（Ava DuVernay）： 我很高兴和你们坐在一起，

so thank you for having me, folks.

所以谢谢你们邀请我，朋友们。

You know, people told me this was an unadaptable book,

你知道，人们告诉我 这是一本无法改编的书，

so the only logical thing to do is to try to adapt it.

所以唯一合理的做法 就是尝试改编它。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But the book really grabbed me.

但是这本书真的让我入了迷。

The first time I read it, I was taken by the fact that I didn't quite get it,

当我第一次读它时，我被一个事实 所吸引，那就是我没太读懂它，

and that frustrated me, so I read it again,

那让我感到沮丧，所以我再次读了一遍，

and I just, I read it three times,

然后我读了第三遍，

and started to feel really connected to some of the stories

并开始感觉自己和一些故事 真正连接了起来，

and some of the characters that the author uses

也和一些作者用来 把我们引向她的思想的角色

to bring us into this idea that she has, this thesis

连接了起来，这个思想即

that so much of our oppression is linked,

我们遭受的压迫很大部分是相互关联的，

and that if we embrace the commonalities of our challenges,

并且如果我们认可那些挑战的共性，

that there was a way forward,

前方就会有路可走，

a blueprint to trying to, kind of, combat some of our social ills.

就会有一个蓝图， 以竭力对抗某些社会弊病。

And so within that,

仅仅要将这一思想转换为电影并不简单，

that's a hard movie to make, just that,

but I'd heard about these beautiful stories about her life --

但我听说过这些 关于她人生的美丽故事——

she's a remarkable woman, Isabel Wilkerson.

她是一位了不起的女性， 伊莎贝尔·威尔克森（Isabel Wilkerson）。

So I thought, "Maybe I can use her life and work

于是我想： “也许我可以用她的人生和作品

as the impetus for the story."

作为故事的推动力。”

And so I started to try to find those parallels,

于是我开始努力寻找那些相似之处，

and I felt guided through the process.

过程中我感觉一直被引导着。

You know, sometimes, you just get in a groove.

你知道，有时候， 你就是会进入一种得心应手的状态。

I have a friend who cooks really well,

我有个朋友非常会做饭，

I really don't.

而我真的不会做。

And she just gets in a groove.

她总能进入一种状态。

She can make something out of whatever's in the kitchen.

不论厨房里有什么东西， 她总能做出点美食。

They don't even look like they connect, but she can put it together.

它们甚至看起来互相没有关系， 但她可以把它们组合起来。

This film was the first time I felt like I got in a groove,

这部电影是我第一次 觉得自己进入了得心应手的状态，

out of everything that I made.

是我所有作品中的第一次。

And the two things, her life and the historical context of "Caste,"

她的人生和《美国不平等的起源》的 历史背景这两件事

somehow fit together,

以某种方式融为一体，

even though on its surface, it may not look like it.

尽管从表面上， 可能看起来不像这样。

PM: And I think most people, hearing that you've made a film of "Caste,"

PM：我想大多数人如果听说 你把《美国不平等的起源》拍成电影，

would think, "Oh, it's going to be a documentary,

他们会想：“哦，这会是一部纪录片，

another one of those stunning Ava documentaries."

艾娃拍的又一部精彩的纪录片。”

But it is in fact a narrative film.

但它实际上是一部叙事电影。

AD: It's a narrative film,

AD：这是一部叙事电影，

where you follow a group of real, live actors through the process.

你会和一群真实生动的演员 经历整个过程。

Blessedly, I was able to work with one of the best actors working today,

幸运的是， 我能与当今最优秀的演员之一

Aunjanue Ellis, who is our lead.

安洁纽·艾莉丝（Aunjanue Ellis）合作， 她是我们的主角。

She plays Isabel Wilkerson, and she's extraordinary.

她扮演伊莎贝尔·威尔克森， 她非常出色。

And I was able to figure out a way to tell the story

我找到了一种方法来讲述

of the deep historical theories

深刻的历史理论

and the social phenomena of caste within the story of a woman

和种姓的社会现象， 将其置于一个女人的故事

and her love story with her family and her husband.

以及她与家庭和丈夫间的感情故事中。

PM: Well, we can't show the whole thing, but we can share a trailer.

PM：嗯，我们不能展示全貌， 但我们可以分享一个预告片。

AD: Oh, we brought a little teaser for you to see.

AD：哦，我们带了一个小预告片 供你们观看。

PM: Origin.

《起源》。

(Music)

（音乐）

(Crowd cheering)

（人群欢呼声）

Isabel Wilkerson: Everywhere.

伊莎贝尔·威尔克森：无处不在。

All over the place.

随处可见。

There's connective tissue.

到处是结缔组织。

All of this.

所有这些。

All of it ...

所有......

is linked.

都相互关联。

(Music fades)

（音乐渐轻）

AD: Yeah, that was a little snippet.

AD：给大家看了一小段。

(Applause)

（掌声）

AD: Yeah, thank you.

AD：是的，谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）

I don't know if you could hear, she says,

我不知道你们能不能听见，她说：

"All of this is linked, there's connective tissue to all of it,"

“所有这些都是相互关联的， 到处都有结缔组织。”

and really, that was the piece of the book that resonated with me.

实际上，那是书中引起我共鸣的部分。

So often, in our challenges, we feel alone.

通常，在我们的挑战中， 我们会感到孤独。

And the way you can know there are folks facing similar things

而当你了解到 有人经历着类似的事情时，

in different places and different times,

也许在不同的地方和不同的时间，

similar to the people in this room,

就和这个房间里的人一样，

you start to feel that there's strength in numbers,

你就会开始感觉到人多的力量，

and that there's some foundation to succeed.

感觉有某种成功的希望。

PM: Along with taking on the challenge of a very complex set of theories

PM：除了要展现伊莎贝尔·威尔克森 在书中提出的

that Isabel Wilkerson puts forward in the book,

一系列非常复杂的理论外，

you had a lot of other creative choices to make,

你还有很多其它创造性的选择要面对，

and challenges to get such a film made.

以及要完成一部这样的电影所需的挑战。

Yeah, like money.

是的，比如钱。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

AD: You know, sometimes, I wish I should have gone to sculpture.

AD：你知道，有时候， 我后悔自己没去搞雕塑。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Just need the piece of ...

但是没错，金钱是一件大事，

But yes, money is a big thing,

and, you know, on its face, when you talk to studios,

而且，你知道，从表面上看， 当你和电影工作室谈话，

and you say, "I want to make a film about Caste,"

说“我想拍一部关于 《美国不平等的起源》的电影”时，

it's not top of the list of things that they're interested in making.

这并不是他们最有兴趣拍的话题。

So the strategy was not even to go there,

因此，我们的策略是去都不要去，

to not go to each and every studio,

不要去把一个工作室走个遍，

because, you know, I'm a realist,

因为，你知道，我是一个现实主义者，

I know that this is a business,

我知道这是一个生意，

and I understand there are certain barriers to entry

而且我清楚在选材上工作室 有自己的考量，

in the minds of studios

as to whether or not this would be successful.

关于这部电影是否会成功。

So what we were able to do was raise the money independently --

所以我们能做的是 独立地筹集资金——

(Applause)

（掌声）

Yay, independence. Come on, independence.

是的，独立。 来吧，独立。

(Applause)

（掌声）

We raised the money independently.

我们独立筹集了资金。

That's why Aunjanue Ellis's involvement is so extraordinary,

这就是为什么安洁纽·艾莉丝的参与 如此非同寻常，

because she had just come off of the Academy Award nomination

因为她刚刚凭借《国王理查德》

for "King Richard"

获得了奥斯卡金像奖提名，

and could have really done anything.

并且本可以做任何事情。

And we asked her to come and join this independent film.

然后我们邀请她来参与这部独立电影。

She actually asked, we asked each other to join this independent film,

实际上她主动问过， 我们算是互相邀请参与这部独立电影，

and we held hands,

然后我们携手，

and I took that lady all over the world.

我带着这位女士走遍了世界。

We did three continents in 37 days,

我们在 37 天中走过了三大洲，

and I really needed a partner who could stand toe-to-toe with me

我当时真的需要一个 可以和我并肩作战的伙伴，

and do that work with independent money.

一起努力靠独立资金拍摄电影。

Independent means there's no more.

独立就是说不会源源不断。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

AD: This is the money, and there's nothing else coming.

AD：钱就都在这儿了，就只有这么多。

And it was a fantastic way to work, you know?

这是一种很棒的工作方式，你知道吗？

It was freeing, in a way.

在某种程度上，它使人解脱。

PM: And I know that, with all of your work,

PM：而且我知道， 在你的所有工作中，

you always have a strategy, too, about what would be the impact of the film

你也总有一个策略， 关于这部电影会产生什么影响，

and how does it go beyond seeing the film onscreen.

以及除了被放映在银幕上之外， 它还能如何拓展。

What are those plans?

那些计划是什么？

AD: I just feel like making the film on its own

AD：我只是觉得，制作电影本身

and being satisfied with the film being out,

并对电影呈现出的样子满意

is really just half the work, for myself, as a filmmaker.

实际上只是工作的一半， 对于作为电影制作人的我来说。

I can't just put it out.

我不能只是把它制作出来。

I need to make sure it gets to the audience,

我需要确保它能传达给观众，

that it reaches folks, that it's understood,

确保它能触动观众、被观众理解，

that it's interrogated, that it's shared.

确保它被质问、被分享。

And so, I have this crazy idea

所以，我产生了这个疯狂的主意，

that I want every 16-year-old in the country

那就是我希望 全国每一个 16 岁的孩子

to be able to see the film for free, if they want.

都能免费看这部电影， 如果他们愿意的话。

And --

而且——

(Applause)

（掌声）

There are four million 16-year-olds in the country right now.

目前全国有四百万 16 岁的年轻人。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

If we can get 100,000 of them in ...

如果我们能让其中 10 万个去看......

But I want them to be able to see it for free,

但我希望他们能够免费地看，

so I made a website, over the weekend,

所以我在周末做了一个网站

called seat16.com.

名为 seat16.com。

And you just go on in, and you buy a ticket for a 16-year-old.

然后只要点进去， 你就可以为一个 16 岁的孩子买票。

It goes into a fund,

这笔钱会汇入一个基金，

and when it's time, in December or January, when the film comes out,

等时候到了，在十二月或一月， 电影上映的时候，

that goes to seat16.com.

这个基金将投放到 seat16.com 上。

Not "sweet," "seat." Isn't it cute?

不是“甜美”，是“座位”。 是不是很可爱？

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But the idea that, at that age,

在那个年龄，

you're starting to interrogate your place in the world

你正开始审问自己在世界中的位置，

and what the world means to you, and how you fit in,

世界对你意味着什么， 以及你如何适应其中，

and I just think it's such a tender age, especially at this time,

我觉得这是一个如此脆弱的年龄， 尤其在这个时代，

that young people be able to be autonomous in what they learn,

年轻人能够自主选择学习的东西，

that they're not told what they can't learn.

他们不会被限制什么不可以学，

That they are able to read what they want to read,

他们能够读自己想读的东西，

see what they want to see --

能够看他们想看的东西——

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）

And so, that's our little solution.

所以，这就是我们想出的小方案。

PM: Not at all surprising that that would be one of the aspirations.

PM：你们会想这样做也是情理之中。

And in watching it, I mean, it really does change your mind.

并且，在观看这部电影过后， 它确实会改变你的想法。

I found myself thinking,

我发现自己在思考：

"Every student, everywhere in the world should see this film,

“世界各地的每个学生 都应该看这部电影，

and make these connective tissue,

并且构建这些结缔组织，

that is so clear in her theory and in the film."

这在她的理论和影片中都非常明显。”

Did you believe all the theories when you started,

你是在刚开始就相信所有的理论

or did something change for you in the making of the film?

还是在电影制作过程中 出现了一些改变？

Did you learn something that was new,

你学到了什么新的东西，

and a discovery?

或者有什么新发现吗？

AD: I learned so much.

AD：我学到了很多东西。

Everything about the Indian people, the Dalit people,

关于印度人民、达利特人的一切，

I knew nothing about.

我此前对他们一无所知。

I feel I'm an educated person,

我现在觉得自己是个受过教育的人了。

I thought I was well-read.

我之前以为自己涉猎广泛。

I'm not.

但我并不是。

We live in a container

我们生活在一个容器中，

that doesn't really promote the idea that we should be learning

这个容器并不倡导我们不断了解

about people's daily lives in any place other than here.

关于生活在其它地方的人的日常生活。

And that is our media,

我们的媒体是那样，

that is our school system.

我们的教育系统是那样。

I mean, many people in this audience,

我的意思是，观众中有很多人，

you know you have to grab your education,

你知道你必须接受教育，

you have to continue to educate yourself.

你必须不断自我教育。

So when we talk about students, it's not just young people.

因此当我们谈论学生时， 谈及的不仅是年轻人。

We need to continually be students, I think that's why everybody's here,

我们需要不断地当学生， 我认为这就是大家坐在这里的原因，

continuing to learn, continuing to listen and explore.

不断学习， 不断倾听和探索。

And so, there was so much in the book that I maybe knew a little bit of,

所以，这本书中有很多 我之前可能知道一点的内容，

or I hadn't made connections to.

或者我还没建立联系的内容。

But almost every single thing about the Dalit people in India,

但是关于印度达利特人的 几乎每一件事情，

I had never heard about.

我都从未听说过。

I had heard about "untouchables" in India,

我曾听说过印度的“不可接触者”，

but I thought that was, like, in feudal, ancient India,

但我以为那只存在于 封建时期的古代印度，

not happening now, in the ways that it is.

而不是现在，可事实就是 它现在仍存在着。

So we explore that in the film,

因此，我们在影片中探讨了这一点，

one of the many things that, hopefully, folks will take away.

这是大家也许能学到的众多东西之一。

PM: There's so many things that you take away,

PM：你学到的东西太多了，

and it's actually true of all of your work.

实际上你的所有作品都是如此。

Ava, I always feel that there's some revelatory truth

艾娃，我总觉得有一些 启示性的真相随影片浮现，

that comes, whether it's "13th," or "When They See Us" --

无论是《第十三修正案》（13th） 还是《有色眼镜》（When They See Us）。

AD: You were the one who watched it, thank you, ma'am.

AD：你是看过我电影的人， 谢谢你，女士。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

PM: Alright, "Selma" -- AD: Somebody said "Queen Sugar"?

PM：好吧，《塞尔玛》（Selma）—— AD：有人说《蔗糖女王》（Queen Sugar）？

Hey.

嘿。

PM: That was my next name. (Laughs)

PM：那是我下一个想说的。（笑）

AD: She knows, Pat knows "Queen Sugar."

AD：她知道，帕特知道《蔗糖女王》。

AD: I know you do. PM: Absolutely.

AD：我知道你知道。 PM：当然。

PM: But that seems to be at the core,

PM：它似乎在一个核心位置，

that's something you would say about an Ava Duvernay work, right?

这是你会对艾娃·德约列的作品 所给予的评价，对吧？

AD: I hope so,

AD：我希望如此，

but I'm really just making what I'm interested in,

但我实际上只是在拍 自己感兴趣的东西，

what I've learned, and trying to pass it along.

我所学到的东西， 并努力将其传递下去。

When I learned the information on "13th," I wanted to share it.

当我习得《第十三修正案》的信息时， 我想分享它。

When I understood what was happening with Black farmers in this country,

当我明白这个国家的黑人农民 曾经历过什么后，

I wanted to make "Queen Sugar" and everything that's within it.

我想拍《蔗糖女王》 及其中的所有东西。

所以我是一个饥渴的读者， 一个将所读之物拍作电影的人。

So I'm a voracious reader who will then go make a movie about it.

And it's a beautiful way to further our knowledge,

这是扩充我们知识的绝佳方式，

because I believe images embed themselves in our imagination

因为我相信图像能够融入我们的想象，

in a way that words alone don't.

以一种光靠文字无法做到的方式。

We think in picture, you know?

我们用图像思考，你知道吗？

Your memories are pictures.

你的回忆都是图像。

And so, to be able to approximate that,

因此，我可以去模拟它，

to render that in film,

以电影的形式来表达，

is such an honor that, when I first was able to do it

实在是太荣幸了。 当我第一次能做这件事，

and show my work in a theater like this

并在像这儿一样的影院展示我的工作，

and watch the back of people's heads as they were watching the screen

在人们注视屏幕时看着他们的后脑勺，

and understand that emotion was coming from the images that I made,

并感受到情感 正从我创作的画面流动出来时，

it was highly addictive

这种感受非常令人上瘾，

and something that I've never gotten over.

并且是我从没能戒掉的。

PM: And one of the other characteristics of everything you've done,

PM：还有另一个关于你做事的特点，

as you've moved and journeyed through Hollywood's power systems

你在好莱坞权力系统中历练过后

to become one of its most admired people

已成为好莱坞最受尊敬的人物之一，

and one of the world's most admired talents, Ava,

也是世界上最受尊敬的人才之一，艾娃，

is that you have also brought other people with you.

你同时也带着其他人 和你一起取得成就。

It wasn't just enough that you made the journey to the top.

对你而言自己成功登顶还不足够。

AD: Because that's not fun.

AD：因为那不好玩。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Do you want to be there by yourself?

你难道想自己去那里吗？

Right? It's not fun.

对吧？这样不好玩。

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）

PM: But you actualized that in creating your own studio.

PM：你在建立自己的工作室时 落实了这一点。

Talk to us about ARRAY,

和我们谈谈 ARRAY，

what its purpose is

它的目标是什么，

and what it has done for people of color in the film industry.

以及它为电影行业的有色人种 做过了什么。

AD: You know, it's a handmade, homemade space.

AD：你知道，这是一个 手工自制的空间。

像那种夫妻两人开的家庭小店， 我这只是一家妈妈小店。

You know, mom-and-pop stores, this is just a mom store.

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And it's a place where we make what we want to make,

在这里我们做我们想做的东西，

we say what we want to say,

说我们想说的话，

we educate ourselves and other people,

我们教育自己和他人，

we congregate around ideas and images.

我们聚集在想法和图像周围。

But it's really community.

但这真的是一个集体。

I found that it's just boring by yourself.

我发现自己一个人很无聊。

It's not as much fun to be on the red carpet, the awards show,

走红毯、上颁奖晚会并不那么有趣，

all those things are not as much fun as being able to sit in a theater

所有这些事情都不如坐在影院里

and watch a movie with folks who are able to see the movie for free

和能够免费看电影的人们 一起看一部电影，

or discuss a film or talk about ideas or to listen to a lecture.

或和他们讨论电影、探讨想法、 或者听一个讲座。

So we have a small campus in Los Angeles that is a community space,

因此，我们在洛杉矶有一个小场地， 它是一个社区空间，

that has a small theater.

里面有一个小影院。

And we just invite people to come in and out

我们邀请人们来来往往，

and share their imagination and their ideas with us.

分享他们对我们的想象和想法。

And we've created ARRAY Crew, which is a database

我们还创建了 ARRAY Crew， 这是一个数据库，

so that people of color, women of all kinds,

让有色人种、各种女性、

older people, people who are kind of "aged out" of our industry

年龄稍大的人、 对于我们的行业似乎“超龄”了的

and no longer called for crew jobs,

不再被征聘当工作人员的人，

they're all in a database.

他们都在这一个数据库中。 这些不太符合行业常规的人，

All of the people that are outside of the box,

you can find them and you can hire them.

你可以找到他们， 你可以雇用他们。

On "Queen Sugar," we hired all women directors

在《蔗糖女王》中，我们聘请的导演 都是女性，七季都是如此。

for seven seasons.

Whenever you're doing the work, you're just finding ways --

当你做任何工作时， 你只是在寻找办法——

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you.

谢谢。

I'm just finding ways to have good people around.

我只是在寻找让好的人 来身边的办法。

And it's really as simple as that.

而且它真的就这么简单。

PM: And to show up for other people, which you have clearly done,

PM：要给其他人建立榜样， 你显然已经这样做了，

as a role model, clearly.

你以身作则。

And I know that you value that.

而且我知道你很看重这一点。

You value the mentors who have been in your life

你珍视生活中遇到过的导师，

and the mentorship that you've offered to others.

重视你为他人提供的指导。

And recently, you brought back one of your early mentors,

最近，你带回了一位你早期的导师之一，

someone who had inspired you,

一个曾启发你的人，

around a concept that I found fascinating.

将他引到一个我觉得很有趣的概念。

And I'd love you to talk about it a bit,

我很希望你能稍微谈一谈这个想法，

the idea that what we all need to find is our "liberated territory."

即我们所有人都需要找到的 是我们的“解放的领土”。

AD: Yes. PM: What is that?

AD：是的。 PM：那是什么？

AD: So I don't know if anyone here knows Haile Gerima.

AD：所以我不知道在座有没有人 认识海尔·格里玛（Haile Gerima）。

(Applause)

（掌声）

An extraordinary filmmaker, Ethiopian-born,

一位非凡的电影制片人， 出生于埃塞俄比亚，

who studied at UCLA,

曾在加州大学洛杉矶分校学习， 后来在霍华德大学

went on to be a professor of film and art at Howard University

担任电影和艺术教授多年，

for many years,

has a small bookstore and café called Sankofa,

他有一个小书店兼咖啡馆， 名为“山卡法”，

named after his film "Sankofa."

是以他的电影《亡灵之魂》 （Sankofa）命名的。

Anybody seen "Sankofa"?

有人看过《亡灵之魂》 吗？

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）

"Sankofa," the most sublime, exquisite, deeply moving,

《亡灵之魂》是有史以来 最崇高、最精致、最感人肺腑、

nuanced rendering of any depiction of slavery of African people

描绘最细腻的对非洲人民奴隶制的描写，

ever made, in my opinion.

在我看来是这样。

Now on Netflix,

现在这部电影在网飞上，

distributed by ARRAY.

由 ARRAY 发行。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And he has this idea,

他有这样的想法，

that in order to thrive,

要想成功，

not just as an artist, but as a person,

不只是作为一个艺术家， 更作为一个人，

you must find and claim your liberated territory.

你必须找到并占领自己的解放领土。

So for him, it was that bookstore, Sankofa.

所以对他来说， 领土就是那家书店，山卡法。

"This is my space. This is where I work.

“这是我的空间。 这是我工作的地方。

This is my physical space where I can be courageous,

这是属于我的物理空间， 我可以在其中无所畏惧，

where I can dream and fulfill those dreams

在这里我可以做梦并实现那些梦，

within my own mind, my own heart

通过我自己的头脑，自己的内心， 和自己的双手。”

and with my own hands."

So I duplicated that,

所以我复制了这个，

and made our ARRAY Campus in Los Angeles very much modeled after that.

并在很大程度上以此为蓝本建立了 我们在洛杉矶的 ARRAY 校区。

But I continue to think about liberated territory in other ways,

但我不断以其它方式思考解放领土，

because what if you aren't a filmmaker, what if you can't have these buildings,

因为如果你不是电影制片人、 无法拥有这些建筑怎么办，

解放的领土是什么？

what is the liberated territory?

The space where you feel the most courageous.

是让你感到最勇敢的空间。

Doesn't even have to be a physical space.

甚至不必是物理上的空间。

It needs to be the space that you can go to inside yourself,

它必须是你可以进入的 在自己内心深处的空间，

that is your safe place,

这是你的安全场所，

where you allow yourself to be able to ideate,

在那里你可以让自己进行构思，

have bad ideas,

可以有不好的想法，

talk yourself into ideas, talk yourself out of that idea.

可以说服自己相信想法、 说服自己放弃这个想法。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And just cultivate that within yourself.

在你自己内心里锻炼这件事。

So for me, it wasn't just the physical space,

所以对我来说， 这不仅仅是物理空间，

it was also freeing my mind

它还是解放自己的思想，

and freeing up spaces within me, where I said,

解放了内心的空间， 在那里我说：

"This is my liberated territory, this is where I go, this is my time,

“这是我的解放领土， 这是我去的地方，这是我的时间，

this is the way I do it, to just let my mind be free,

这是我做事的方式， 让我的思想自由，

and have courage, have courage."

并拥有勇气，拥有勇气。”

And so it doesn't just come, you have to create the right conditions.

然后不能守株待兔， 你必须创造正确的条件。

And that term, liberated territory,

而那个名词，解放领土，

it stayed with both of us, when we talked about it.

这个词给我们两个人都留下深刻的印象。

PM: Yes.

PM：是的。

AD: And it is a bit of a mantra.

AD：这有点像咒语。

I found mine in film,

我在电影中找到了我的领土，

and the hope is that we can all find ours, in whatever ways we're able to.

希望我们都能以任何可能的方式 找到自己的领土。

PM: You did find yours in film,

PM：你确实在电影中找到了自己的领土， 正因为你找到了自己的，

and because you found yours,

you're providing liberated territory for many of the rest of us.

你以此为我们其他许多人 提供了解放的领土。

And I often think that when I look at such monumental work --

而且我常常觉得，当我看到 如此具有里程碑意义的作品时——

and that really does characterize all of your work, Ava --

这确实是你 所有作品的特征，艾娃——

I think, "What could be next?"

我想：“下一部电影会是什么样？”

AD: (Whispers) I don't know.

AD：（小声）我不知道。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And you know what?

而且这是我第一次不知道 我的下一个项目会是什么，

This is the first time that I've ever not known what my next project is,

是我生涯上第一次。

since I started.

I didn't pick up a camera until I was 32,

我直到 32 岁才拿起相机，

and so when I got the opportunity to make films,

所以当我有机会拍电影时，

I just thought the door was going to close.

我总觉得那扇门很快就要关上了。

"I need to go fast,

“我需要快点走，在他们发现 我不知道自己在做什么之前不断前进。”

keep going before they figure out," (Whispers) "I don't know what I'm doing."

Never went to film school, I just picked up the camera,

我从来没有上过电影学校， 我只是拿起了镜头，

and so I just started running as fast as I can,

所以我开始尽可能快地跑起来，

and this really is the first film,

而这个真的是我第一部电影，

working with Aunjanue,

与安洁纽合作的电影， 与我在一起很长时间的团队合作，

working with the team that I'd been with for a long time,

I was able to, at the end of this process --

在这个过程结束时——

we just finished the film a couple of weeks ago --

我们几周前才完成了这部电影 ——

say, "I don't have something else next, and that's OK."

我终于能够说：“我还没有下一个项目， 但没有关系。”

You know, that's OK, to take a second, you know?

花时间喘喘气，这并没有关系。

The door is not going to close.

那扇门不会关上的。

(Applause)

（掌声）

The door is not going to close,

那扇门不会关上的，

and if it does, I've got my liberated territory.

就算它关上了， 我已经有了我的解放领土。

I'll just be right over here, it's OK.

我可以回到这里来，没有关系。

But it's the first time I don't know, and it feels really nice.

这是我第一次不知道下个工作， 这感觉真的很棒。

PM: Well, the door is definitely not going to close.

PM：嗯，那扇门绝对不会关上的。

And to go back to "Origin"

回过头来看《起源》

and the way that I felt, watching this film

以及我看这部电影的感受，

and the way I've thought about it so many times since,

以及从那以后我对它的多次思考，

I wonder what is your highest, deepest aspiration

我想知道你最高、最深切的期望，

for the way people will respond?

对人们的反应的期望是什么？

What would be the change, what do you want the response to be?

期望人们有什么改变？ 你希望得到的回应是怎样的？

AD: I usually resist answering that question,

AD：其实我通常拒绝回答这个问题，

because I don't want to prescribe --

因为我不想开处方——

everyone comes in with their own stuff.

每个人都有自己的感受。

I just want --

我只想 ——

I feel emotional.

我有点情绪激动。 我希望人们......

I want people to ...

enter into the film with an open heart and mind.

以开放的心态和想法进入这部影片。

Because I've seen that when people do that with this work,

因为我已经见过， 当人们以这种方式对待这类事情时，

for whatever reason ...

不论出于什么原因......

good things happen.

会有好事发生。

And you just have to stay open.

你只需要保持开放即可。

And, so often, I turn on the TV, or I'm watching or reading something,

经常地，我会打开电视， 或者当我在看或读东西，

kind of with my mental arms folded.

我会像是在心里把双臂交叉着。

You know, "I know what I feel about this, and I already have an opinion."

你知道，“我知道我对此的感受， 而且我已经有了自己的看法。”

And the hope is that, folks,

我的期望是，朋友们，

that this film engenders the spirit of,

这部电影能激发这样的精神：

"Let me just go in open, and see what it's about,

“让我就只是开放地， 看看它是关于什么的，

and see what it brings up in me."

看看它会让我产生什么感受。” 那是我的期望。

That's my hope.

PM: I can only say that that is what happens.

PM：我只能说事实也的确如此。

(AD laughs)

（AD 笑）

(Applause)

（掌声）

PM: I think it's quite a gift to be able to create art,

PM：我认为能够创作艺术是一份礼物，

to tell stories, to create narrative

能够讲故事、创作叙事，

that really does change the way people see the world.

以至于真正改变人们看待世界的方式。

PM: And you have done that, Ava DuVernay. AD: It's a privilege.

PM：而且你已经做到了，艾娃·德约列。 AD：这是一种荣幸。

PM: Thank you for sharing. AD: Thank you for sharing with me.

PM：谢谢你的分享。 AD：谢谢你和我分享。

AD: I appreciate you. PM: Thank you so much.

AD：我很感谢你。 PM：非常感谢。

AD: Thank you. These boots.

AD：谢谢。看看这靴子。

(AD laughs)

（AD 笑）

AD: Thanks folks.

AD：谢谢大家。