The Secret to Making New Friends as an Adult | Marisa G. Franco | TED

翻译人员: Yuqing Xie 校对人员: Gentle Yang

Marisa Franco: Now, as an expert on friendship,

玛丽莎·佛朗哥： 作为友谊方面的专家，

I'm up against a lot because of the hierarchy

我遇到了很多困难，因为

that a lot of our cultures place on love, right?

我们很多的文化把感情 分成了三六九等，对吧？

With familial love at the top, with romantic love at the top,

家庭的亲情处于上层， 浪漫的爱情处于上层，

and with platonic love, friendship love, really at the bottom.

而柏拉图式的爱情和友情则处于下层。

And with so many countries,

虽然世界上有这么多的国家，

people feeling so lonely and so disconnected,

但是人们仍感到非常孤独和疏远。

I believe that if we leave friendship at the bottom of this hierarchy,

我认为，将友情置于三六九等的下层，

it's like there's gold at our feet that we're treating as concrete.

无异于不识庐山真面目。

And so why are friendships so key?

为什么友情如此重要？

Well, our bodies have always known

因为我们的身体一直认为

that we need an entire community to feel whole.

我们需要加入一个群体 才能使自己感到完整。

And just being around a spouse, for example,

例如，在爱人身边时，

only surfaces one side of ourselves.

只会展现我们自己其中一面。

So maybe the part of me that likes to garden or do yoga

这样一来， 我喜欢园艺或瑜珈的那一面

will begin to wither away if my spouse, for example,

可能会开始退化， 如果我的爱人

doesn't like these activities.

不喜欢这些活动。

But then when I'm around a friend,

但是当我在朋友身边时，

I can garden and plant my pothos with them

我可以和他们一起 打理花园，种植绿萝，

or around another friend that I can [do] downward facing dog with.

或找另一个朋友一起 做下犬式瑜伽。

And I feel my entire identity, accordion outward,

这让我感受到完整的自我， 像手风琴似的向外展开与绽放。

unfold and fan out.

And I experience the full richness and complexities of who I am

我充分体验到自我的丰富性和复杂性，

when I have an entire community to bring that out in me.

融入群体让我得以拥有这种体验。

And so that's one of the reasons why friendship is really important.

这就是友情如此重要的原因之一。

But I think there's two reasons why we tend to really devalue it.

我认为我们一直低估友情的原因有两点。

One reason is because we just don't know how to make friends.

一是，我们不知道如何交朋友。

So luckily, I am going to help you with that a little bit today.

幸运的是， 今天我会帮你解读一下这个问题。

But the other reason has to do with something I like to call

另一个原因， 我愿称之为“人的悖论”。

the “paradox of people.”

That on the one hand we need people,

一方面，我们需要他人。

they make us feel healthy, they make us feel connected,

他们使我们感到健康， 满足我们的交际需求，

they make us feel like our very selves, right?

让我们感受到自我的存在，对吧？

But on the other hand, people are really scary.

但另一方面，人是可怕的。

They can dismiss us,

他们可以无视我们，

they can reject us, they can actively harm us.

拒绝我们，甚至主动伤害我们。

And so this sort of dilemma that we face,

这就是我们面临的困境，

the sort of entity that we need the most

我们最需要的人

is also the entity that can harm us the most.

恰恰是能伤我们最深的人。

And how we walk across this tightrope handling this paradox of people

我们如何小心翼翼地处理这种人性悖论

says a lot about our ability to make and keep friends.

很大程度取决于我们 结交朋友与维持交情的能力。

Because if we find ourselves stuck in the place

因为如果我们自己停滞不前，

where we see people as --

视他人为——

we mistrust people,

例如我们不相信别人，

or we see people as potentially rejecting us and harming us,

或者我们觉得别人 可能拒绝和伤害自己，

it's really hard to foster connection.

这样的友情实在难以培养。

And this really materialized for me one day when I had bought an apartment,

这个道理在我买房的那天 体现得淋漓尽致，

and I was really excited to make friends with my neighbors

当天我很激动， 希望和我的邻居成为朋友，

because I'm like, "I'm going to be here for a while."

因为我想着， “我会在这住上一段时间”。

And I see a couple of my neighbors in the hallway,

后来，我在走廊上碰见了两位邻居，

when I'm walking home into my apartment with my ex at the time

当时我正和同居的前男友一起回家，

who was living with me.

And I walk right past them, right?

但我直接路过了这两位邻居，

Because paradox of people, I'm scared of them,

因为人性的悖论，我害怕他们，

they might reject me.

他们可能会拒绝我。

They might see me as weird if I try to introduce myself.

如果我开口自我介绍， 他们可能会把我看作怪人，

So I scurry into my apartment

所以我赶紧朝家门口走去，

and my ex, he pushes me back into the hallway

但我的前男友把我拉回了走廊，

to talk to my neighbors and says to me, you know,

希望我和邻居们打招呼，他对我说，

"You're writing this book on friends.

“你在写一本关于朋友的书。

What would you tell other people who are in your situation?"

如果其他人遇到和你相同的情况， 你打算怎么和他们说？”

And so as I'm sort of stumbling back into the hallway,

所以我才磕磕绊绊地回到了走廊。

I'm thinking about a few things that I have learned

通过认真研究友情， 我想我学到了几样东西。

through studying friendship so intensely.

And so two observations that I have on friendship

关于友情，我有两个发现，

and two takeaways for what we can do to make and keep friends.

关于结交朋友和维持友谊的方法 我也有两点建议。

First observation,

第一个发现是，

friendship does not happen organically in adulthood, right?

成年时期的友情 不会自然而然地发生，对吧？

And in fact, one study found

事实上，一项研究发现，

that people that think that it happens based on luck

认为友情是靠运气发生的人 在五年后会更容易感到孤单，

are actually lonelier five years later,

whereas people that see it as happening based on effort

而那些认为友情靠努力换来的人

are less lonely five years later.

在五年后不会感到太孤单。

So what does that tell me?

这说明什么？

That if I was just there

如果我们仅仅

hoping that my neighbors would someday try to be my friends,

期待自己的邻居 某天想和我们成为朋友，

it probably wouldn't happen, right?

那很有可能不会发生，对吧？

And so I would need to make that effort

因此我们需要付出努力

in order to be able to make friends.

从而获得交朋友的能力。

But second observation that I have,

我的第二点发现，

based on reading all the research on friendship,

来自对友情研究的研读，

is something called the “liking gap,”

那是一种叫作“喜好差距”的现象，

which is a phenomenon wherein when strangers interact and predict

这种现象发生在陌生人相互交流时，

how likely the other person is to like them,

预估别人有多喜欢自己，

they underestimate how much the other person likes them.

结果人们都低估 别人对自己的喜爱程度。

So this research really suggests that we're less likely to be rejected

因此这个研究表明 我们没有自己想象中那么容易遭到拒绝。

than we think.

Which leads me to my first takeaway for making friends.

这给了我第一则交友启示。

If you want to make friends,

如果你想交朋友，

you have to assume that people like you, right?

你就该假设对方喜欢你，对不对？

The reason is, when researchers told people,

这么做的原因是， 当研究人员告诉人们，

“Hey, you’re going to go into this group, and based on your personality profile,

“嗨，你们等下加入这个组， 以你们的性格，

we predict that you will be liked."

我们相信你们一定很受欢迎。”

This was completely bogus, a total lie.

这完全是编造出来的谎言。

But they found that when people went into this group of people,

但研究人员发现这些人加入小组后，

they became warmer, open, more friendly, because they made this assumption.

他们变得更加热情、包容、友好， 因为研究者人员事先给出的设定。

And so indeed, it became this self-fulfilling prophecy

所以这确实是个自我实现的预言， 又叫“接纳预言”。

called the “acceptance prophecy”.

And when we assume we'll be liked,

当我们假设自己会受到喜爱，

we make it more likely that we actually will be liked.

我们就会让自己变得更受喜爱。

Whereas other research finds that people that tend to assume that they're rejected,

其他研究发现，当情境模棱两可时， 人们倾向于觉得自己会被拒绝，

even when the circumstance is ambiguous,

like, my friend, maybe they're just, like, hungry or something,

实际上，例如我朋友， 他们也许只是刚好觉得饿了或怎样，

rather than that they hate me, right?

但那并不代表他们讨厌我，对吧？

Those people that go straight to "maybe they don't like me,"

那些总是认为 “他们可能不喜欢我”的人，

they actually become cold,

他们实际上会变得冷漠，

they actually become withdrawn and they reject people.

变得置身事外并拒绝他人。

And then they get rejected in return.

然后反过来也遭到他人的拒绝。

So I'm thinking of these things in the hallway, you know,

当时我在走廊，想的都是这些道理，

right by my neighbors.

站在我邻居旁边想着这些。

I'm thinking that, you know,

我在想，

I can't wait for this to happen organically.

我不能守株待兔，任其发展。

OK, I'm afraid they're going to reject me,

我确实担心他们会拒绝我，

but that's less likely to happen than I actually think.

但实际上这没我想象中那么容易发生。

I should assume that they're going to like me.

我应该觉得他们都很喜欢我。

And then one last thing I have to remind myself of

我要提醒自己的最后一点是，

was to overcome something called “covert avoidance,”

要克服“隐性回避”，

which is our tendency to show up around other people physically,

这指的是我们虽然在别人身边， 但却心不在焉，对吧？

but check out mentally, right?

Like, you’re hanging out with people and you’re on your phone,

例如，你和朋友出去玩时， 注意力都放在自己的手机上，

or that would look like me just standing in the hallway

又例如，我人站在走廊上，

hoping that my neighbors talk to me.

心里却希望邻居主动找我聊天。

And so to make friends, you have to overcome covert avoidance

因此，说到交友， 你需要克服这种隐性回避，

by not just showing up,

不仅仅是人在这儿，

I showed up in that hallway, right,

我人不也在走廊上嘛，

but you also have to engage with people when you get there.

而且要做到人在这儿时， 与别人进行互动和交流。

So I ended up approaching my neighbors and saying,

最终，我向我的邻居打招呼，

"Hi, I'm Marisa,

“你好，我是玛丽莎，

I just moved into 103, It's really great to meet you."

最近刚搬到103， 很高兴认识你。”

And we start chatting.

接着，我们聊起了天来。

And at some point, you know, I asked them, like,

聊着聊着，我问他们，

"Is there a group where we can keep in touch?

“不知道我们有 可以保持联系的群组吗？

I’d love to, you know, chat further.”

我希望大家以后可以进一步交流。”

And they tell me about their cat group

他们给了我一个养猫群，

that they have for cat parents in the Drew.

群里都是像他们一样的养猫人。

And I don't have a cat, but like,

虽然我不养猫，

I'll take connection when I can find it.

但是我可以通过这个群组联系上其他人。

So the cat group became half cat group, half social group.

这个养猫群不但是个养猫群， 还是个社交群。

And I think sometimes we think that you know, a tiny act,

我相信，我们有时会觉得， 一个小小的举动，

something small like saying hello can have colossal consequences for our life.

像打招呼一样的小举动 可以为我们的生活带来巨大的变化。

But when we can lean into the sort of positive side of the paradox of people,

但前提是我们相信 人性悖论中积极的一面，

when we can initiate and assume people like us, right,

当我们主动引导和假设别人 对我们的喜爱，

it can have colossal consequences.

它才会产生巨大的效果。

Because since I said that "hello," me and my neighbors,

正因为我说了声“你好”， 我和我的邻居

we met up and we hung out every Friday,

才得以每周五都见面一起玩，

socially distanced of the pandemic in the garden behind our apartment, right?

即使疫情期间也在 各家院子保持社交，对不对？

And so I think that this experience really taught me

我觉得这次经历教会我的重点是，

the importance that while we all face this paradox of people,

虽然我们都要面对人性的悖论，

while we all face this dilemma,

我们都要面对这个进退两难的困境，

that, if we want to make friends,

如果我们想要结交朋友，

if we want to connect with people,

希望联系别人，

we have to be able to move away

我们必须要做到摆脱 那个担惊受怕、疑神疑鬼、

from the part of ourselves that is fearful, that is mistrustful,

that assumes people will harm or reject us

认为别人会伤害或拒绝自己的自我，

and turn towards the part of ourselves

转变成那个纯粹想要关爱他人、 与他人建立联系的自我，

that simply wants to love and connect with people

and can ready ourselves to engage in these new connections with optimism

这样我们才能做好准备， 带着乐观与希望与他人建立新的联系。

and with hope.

You know, my niece read my book "Platonic,"

我的侄女读了我写的《柏拉图》，

and one thing that she took away from it was that for friendship to happen,

她从中领悟到的是， 在友情的诞生中，

someone has to be brave.

必须要有人勇敢。

So be brave.

所以请勇敢。

Thank you.

谢谢大家。

Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Thank you, Marisa.

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯： 谢谢你，玛丽莎。

I loved all of that.

我喜欢你说的每一句话。

And I could see in the chat

我从聊天框能看出

that a lot of the members also really love some of the things you shared there.

很多人也非常喜欢你分享的一些看法。

So thank you so much for that wonderful talk

谢谢你精彩的演讲和建议， 我们接下来将就此进行详细的讨论。

and for those tips which we will dive into in this conversation.

And, you know, I think just to sort of start,

在展开讨论之前，我不得不说

your line of work is just so interesting.

你的工作实在太有趣了。

Friendship is, it seems such a unique area to research.

友情似乎是一个 非常独特的研究领域。

And I actually want to read something back to you from your book

我想给大家读几句你书里的文字，

to help us understand a little bit more

帮助大家了解

about just the importance of this type of relationship.

这种感情的重要性。

You say, “Friendship, in releasing the relationship pressure valve,

你写道，“友情， 是释放感情压力的阀门，

infuses us with joy like no other relationship.

它给予我们的幸福， 是其他关系不可比拟的。

Without needing to plan for retirement,

不用计划退休，

fulfill each other's sexual needs

不用满足对方性欲，

and work out who should be scrubbing the shower grime,

不用争论谁才是应该 擦洗花洒污垢的那个人，

we are free to make friendship territories of pleasure."

我们可以无拘无束地享受 友情的愉悦。”

So can you talk a little bit more about this

你可以再谈谈这句话，

and just why friendship holds such an important role

说一下友情在我们生命中 如此重要的原因吗？

in all of our lives?

MF: Yeah, yeah.

玛丽莎：可以，没问题。

Well, first of all, I'll take a step back and say, like, clearly,

首先，在深入话题之前， 我想说，很明显，

connection is so central to all of us.

人与人之间的联系 对我们所有人来说都非常重要。

You know, the research finds that, for example,

有研究表示，举个例子，

loneliness is more toxic for your body than having a poor diet or not exercising.

孤独比不良饮食或缺乏运动 更能造成对我们的伤害。

And these are things that we talk about in the public health conscious,

我们讲到公共卫生时常谈论后者，

but we don't talk about social connection enough.

但我们对社会关系的讨论远远不够。

Maybe for our UK folks, you all have a prime minister of loneliness.

可能对英国人而言， 你们至少还有一个孤独事务部长。

So it's a little bit different, right?

这有点与众不同，对吧？

But when we talk about the impact of loneliness,

但当我们谈到孤独带来的影响时，

there's actually three different dimensions of loneliness.

其实孤独有三种不同的维度。

There is intimate loneliness,

有针对亲密关系的孤独，

which is the desire for someone to be very intimate with.

一种想要和别人建立亲密关系的渴望。

There's also relational loneliness,

还有针对人际关系的孤独，

which is the desire for someone that feels as close to us as a friend might.

一种想要别人像朋友一样 亲近我们的渴望；

And then there's collective loneliness,

再来是针对集体的孤独，

which means I desire to be part of a group working towards a common goal.

这意味着我渴望成为集体的一员， 与之共赴共同目标。

And this research on loneliness really suggests that, just like I said,

这项关于孤独的研究其实表明， 就像我刚刚提到的，

we really do need an entire community to feel whole.

我们确实需要加入到团体中， 以此感受人生的完整性。

Because if we just focus on being very nuclear, you know,

因为如果我们只是以自我为中心，

just having a spouse

以爱人为中心，

and that being the center of all of our connections, right,

视爱人为 所有人际关系中的重中之重，

that’s maybe touching on our intimate loneliness,

那可能会消融我们 亲密关系中的孤独感，

but not our relational, not our collective, right?

但没有消融我们对于 人际关系及集体中孤独感，对吗？

And so I think a lot of us found this in the pandemic that,

所以在疫情期间， 我们很多人会发现，

we may have been home with the spouse or partner that we really loved a lot,

即使我们长期与自己 相爱的配偶或伴侣待在家里，

but we still ended up feeling lonely.

我们最终仍感到孤独。

And that's because as social species, as social creatures,

那是因为作为群居生物和社会性生物，

like, we just need an entire community to fulfill us.

我们需要通过加入团体来满足自己。

WPR: You touched on this a little bit in the talk,

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯： 你在演讲和书中都有谈到这一点，

and in the book, you separate, sort of,

the way you think about friendship to two categories.

你似乎把友情分为两类。

You talk about, you know, sort of a backward look

你既讲到了 过去我们对友情的传统看法，

at how we've traditionally experienced friendship,

and then you look forward at how we could build better relationships,

也讲到了未来我们可以怎样 更好地建立柏拉图式的关系，

better platonic relationships.

And so if we could just talk a little bit about sort of that first section,

我们可否多讲一些第一部分的内容，

just diving into how we as a culture tend to think about friendship

从文化的角度深入探讨 我们看待友情的方式，

and how does this really impact the way that we actually approach it?

这种看待方式 如何影响我们的实际行为？

MF: Yeah, so I'm reading all the research on friendship,

玛丽莎：当然， 我读过很多关于友情的研究，

and what sort of materializes before my eyes

在我面前发生的例子是

is that our personalities are fundamentally a reflection

我们的性格基本上反映了

of our experiences of connection or disconnection, right?

我们人际交往中 顺利或失意的经历，对吧？

Like, in some ways our personalities are coping mechanisms

一定程度上，我们的性格 是一种应对机制，

from the experiences of connection or disconnection we've received.

这种机制源于 我们人际交往中顺利或失意的经历。

So whether you are friendly, open, warm,

因此，不管你是友好、开放、热情，

vulnerable, trusting, cynical, aggressive, even violent,

还是脆弱、可靠、愤世嫉俗、 好胜，甚至好战，

all of this is predicted by what your history of connection

这些性格都可以 通过你过去的人际交往经历推断出来。

or lack thereof looks like.

So how we've connected really affects who we are.

因此我们的人际交往方式 影响了我们自身的塑造。

But not only that,

但除此之外，

who we are really affects how we connect, right?

我们自己本身也会对 我们的人际交往方式产生影响，对吗？

Those people that have that history of healthy relationships,

那些建立了良好人际关系的人，

they have an internal set of beliefs within them

他们的内在信念感

that allows them to continue to facilitate healthy relationships.

让他们继续维持良好的人际关系。

This is, if people are familiar with “attachment theory,”

如果我们熟悉“依恋理论”，便知道

securely attached people, who think others can be trusted,

这类人属于安全依恋型人格， 认为他人值得信赖，

who think they can be vulnerable,

允许自己脆弱，

who think they can turn to people for support, right?

认为自己可以向他人寻求帮助，对吧？

And they go into new relationships with this set of beliefs

他们带着这些信念感进入新的关系，

that allows them to continue to create these new relationships.

这些信念感不断 支持他们建立新的关系。

Whereas people who have had difficult previous relationships,

而那些曾在人际关系中遇到困难的人，

those can be internalized as a belief system

他们的经历会内化成他们的信念体系，

that then can impede their ability to foster further connections, right?

阻碍他们进一步 发展人际关系的能力，对吗？

Because they may think "people are going to reject me,"

因为他们觉得 “别人会拒绝我”，

that "I can't be vulnerable,"

“我不能敏感脆弱”，

that "I can never feel safe around anybody,"

“不管和谁在一起我都不放心”，

even when someone is safe,

即便碰到一个可靠的人，

they're still holding that assumption and that judgment, right?

他们依旧会保留上述的设想和看法， 对不对？

And so what I want "Platonic" to do,

我之所以写《柏拉图》，

because I know some people hear this and they're like,

是因为我知道有人 听到这些观点后会说，

"Good for those people with healthy childhoods, you know, whatever.

“拥有幸福童年的人 无论做什么都是幸福的，

For me, I guess I'm doomed."

但无论我做什么，都是不幸的。”

Absolutely not.

实际上并非如此。

WPR: Your work is focused specifically on adult friendships,

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：你的著作 主要关注成人的友情，

which, for a lot of the reasons you've already outlined,

正如你提到的种种原因，

seem like are just really challenging for us to develop.

成人的友情对我们来说实在很难培养。

But I guess, can you talk about sort of, why this breakdown happens

你可以谈谈 出现这种现象的原因吗，

and really when we start to see that it becomes more difficult

从什么时候起， 我们发觉自己越来越难

for people to make friends in the same way

像小时候那样交朋友？

as you did when you were kids?

MF: Yeah.

玛丽莎：好的。

So when I say friendship doesn't happen organically in adulthood,

我之前说过成人的友谊 不会自然而然地发生，

I don't mean that friendship doesn't happen organically in childhood,

这不代表儿童的友谊 也不会自然而然地发生，

because for children it often does.

因为儿童的友谊通常做得到。

And they have certain ingredients in their environment

童年时期有相当多的环境因素

that really foster friendship.

可以帮助孩童发展友谊。

So Rebecca G. Adams, she's a sociologist,

丽贝卡·G·亚当斯是一名社会学家，

and she says, you know, for friendship to be fostered organically,

她说过，要想水到渠成地培养一段友谊，

you need to have this repeated unplanned interaction

你需要不断重复无计划交往，

and the shared vulnerability, right?

并与彼此共享脆弱性，对吧？

And so in school we have that.

我们在学校里具备这些条件。

We have that through our lunch period.

午休时具备这些条件。

We have that through our gym, we have that through our recess, right,

在健身房里或课间休息时， 我们具备这些条件，

we're seeing people every day,

我们每天都和人打交道，

we're letting our guard down,

慢慢放下戒备心，

we end up sort of just developing these friendships.

最终发展友情。

But when you think about adults going into the working worlds,

但放在已经步入职场的成年人身上，

you may have repeated unplanned interaction with your colleagues,

即使你可能和同事 不断重复无计划交往，

less so now that we're doing more hybrid and remote workplace, right?

哪怕现在我们 在远程办公中交往频率大不如前，

But we're often not as vulnerable in the workplace.

但我们在职场上 几乎不可能享有相同的脆弱性。

And that's why one study, and again, this is caveat, US context,

所以一项美国研究警告称，

one study found that the more time people spend together at work,

人们一起工作的时间越多，

the less close that they feel.

彼此越疏远。

And so we need to recognize that as adults,

所以我们要意识到， 作为成年人，

we don't have the same infrastructure we had as kids.

我们的交友环境与孩子的不同。

So we can't rely on the same set of assumptions that,

我们无法依赖同一套设定，

oh, this is just going to happen,

例如，这迟早会发生的，

I don't have to try, I don't have to initiate.

我不需要尝试，也不需要主动。

Because as I shared from that previous research study, if we think that way,

正如刚刚提到的研究所说， 如果我们这样想，

for a lot of us, it won't happen.

对于很多人而言，友情根本不会发生。

WPR: And I think also just in thinking

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：我在想，

about what friendship brings to the table for you,

思考友谊给我们带来的资源，

how it benefits you,

友谊给我们带来的好处，

you have this phrase in your book

你在书中写下了这句话，

where you say, “Connecting to others makes us ourselves.”

你说，“联系他人使我们成为自己”。

And it's about much more than just the pleasure of connection there.

这远超过交朋友的乐趣。

Can you explain a little bit about that?

你可以稍微展开说说吗？

MF: Yeah. So Harry Stack Sullivan, he's a psychiatrist,

玛丽莎：好的。哈里·斯塔克·沙利文， 一名精神分析学家，

and he has this theory called the “theory of chums,”

有一个理论叫作“密友理论”，

which is basically that our chums or our friends earlier in life,

主要是指我们早期的密友或朋友

they provide us with the sort of relationship template

为我们提供了友情样板，

that we take on into our future.

供我们的未来做参考。

So it allows us to continue to connect throughout life, right?

这使我们得以继续保持联系，对吧？

And there is some research that finds that if we connect in childhood,

研究发现， 如果我们从童年时期交朋友，

we have good friends in childhood,

在童年时期就有好朋友，

we have higher self-esteem in adulthood,

那么我们成年时的自尊会更强，

we're more empathic in adulthood, right?

并且更加善解人意，对吧？

And so he kind of argues that the therapy experience

因此，他的观点大概是理疗经验

is similar to the chumship experience,

与交友经验相似，

in that with your friends,

和朋友在一起时，

you share things that you feel like you should be ashamed of, right?

你会分享一些 自己感到难为情的事情，对吗？

And when you are ashamed of something,

当你为一些事情感到难为情，

you're not integrating it into your entire personality.

你不会让它们成为你人格的一部分。

You're trying to push it away and suppress it

你会试图丢弃或压制这些事情，

and not make it who you are.

不让它们影响自我。

And the shame can really take over your whole personality

其实羞耻感可以管控你整个人格，

because you're pushing away this part of who you are that you think is shameful.

你正在推开自己觉得羞耻的人格，

But then so much of your personality is spent

但大部分人格

focusing on making sure nobody finds out this thing, right?

正专注于不让别人发现，对吗？

And so that's why shame can be so encompassing and enveloping.

这就是羞耻感可以与你形影不离的原因。

But what Stack Sullivan argues,

但斯塔克·沙利文认为，

is that when kids share this shame with their friends

当儿童与自己的朋友分享羞耻感时，

and their friends are like, you know, we still love you.

对方对他们的爱仍然不变。

You know, this isn't a big deal for us, right?

你知道的，那没什么大不了， 对不对？

And we still think you're amazing and we accept that about you, right?

我们仍然会觉得你很棒， 接受你的羞耻感，对不对？

We begin to be able to accept it in ourselves

我们开始能够接受自己的羞耻感，

and to bring whatever we felt shame about,

不管是什么让我们感到羞耻，

to see it as just part of our personalities

都能够将它视作自己人格的一部分，

rather than antithetical to the personality that we want to have.

而非有异于自己想拥有的人格。

And we are able to sort of relinquish all of the energies

我们能够停止所有精神内耗，

that we spend trying to push this thing away.

不再花时间拒绝自己的羞耻感。

And so in that way,

因此从这个角度看，

the experience of experiencing that platonic love from our friends,

我们能够从朋友身上 得到柏拉图式的感情，

especially at that time in childhood, teenagers,

尤其在儿童及青年时期，

where we're very high in shame,

当时我们很容易感到羞耻，

we're like highest in shame

大概是我们这辈子 最容易感到羞耻的时候，对吗？

than throughout our whole lifespan, right?

That our friends are there at that time when we're so high in shame,

我们感到非常羞耻时， 我们的朋友陪伴着我们，

to help us integrate that and to help us connect to all sides of ourselves

帮助我们接受它， 让我们从各方面连结自己，

so that we sort of begin to become who we fully are.

使我们开始塑造完整的自我。

WPR: It's just so interesting how much vulnerability and shame play into this.

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：很有意思地看到 脆弱性和羞耻感的影响如此深远。

And in a way, it seems like on the one hand,

从这个角度看，似乎一方面，

as you get more confident,

随着你越来越自信，

you start to lose some of the ability to make new friends,

你开始不太会交朋友，

but also using that confidence,

但运用你的自信，

leaning into it to actually make the friends is what you need.

自信地交朋友正是你所需要做的。

So it's fascinating.

所以非常精彩。

Well, I want to dive into some of the member questions we're receiving

现在，我想探讨一下 我们收到的一些会员提问，

because they're also really interesting.

这些问题都非常有趣。

So TED member Arnoldo, they ask,

TED 会员阿诺尔多问道，

"Married people often complain about lack of time

“已婚人士常常抱怨没有时间

to cultivate friendships outside of the marital circle.

在婚姻关系外发展友情。

What insights have you gained in your research

请问你从研究中获得什么启示

about the effects of outside friendships in a couple's relationship?"

是针对婚外友情影响的？

MF: Oh, I love this question.

玛丽莎：噢，我超爱这个问题。

(Laughs)

（笑声）

I think that having outside friendships

我认为婚外友情

is necessary for having a healthy marriage.

对于健康的婚姻关系来说是必需品。

I do.

我真的这么想。

And this is where I'm coming from with that.

这个观点是有依据的。

The research basically finds that if I make a friend,

研究表明，如果我在婚外交朋友，

I'm not only less depressed, but my spouse is too.

不仅仅是我，连我的伴侣 都会感到没那么压抑。

It also finds that when you get into conflict with your spouse,

研究还发现， 当你与伴侣产生冲突时，

it negatively impacts your release of a stress hormone cortisol, right?

冲突会对你释放压力荷尔蒙皮质醇 带来负面影响，对不对？

But if you have quality connection outside of that marriage,

但如果你在婚姻以外拥有高质友谊，

that doesn't happen.

这种情况就不会发生。

Your cortisol release is normal, right?

因为皮质醇释放正常，对不对？

Other research that finds that, particularly for women

另外有研究表明，尤其对于

who tend to have more close intimate relationships,

亲密关系更紧密的女性而言，

when they go through difficulties within that partnership,

当婚姻面临困难时，

they are more resilient to it when they have this outside support, right?

她们若能在婚外获得支持， 将会更加振作起来，对不对？

And so it's just like, if I can access this other person

所以说，如果我能够联系上一个人，

to center me during times of stress in my marriage,

这个人在我遭受婚姻压力时 以我为主，

I can return to that marriage in a centered and grounded way.

那么我重回婚姻时便有能力 将婚姻置于中心且更接地气。

And that's a resource for me, and it's a resource for my spouse.

那既是我的资源， 也是我伴侣的资源。

Where we see that people

我们可以看到有些人

that only have that close connection with their spouse,

只与自己的伴侣维持紧密的联系，

they have high rates of what's called concordance, which means that,

他们之间的一致性很高，这意味着，

however your spouse feels is kind of how you feel.

伴侣的感受其实也是自己的感受。

Their, sort of, energy affects you a lot more

伴侣的精神对你产生的影响超乎想象，

when they're the only person that you're looking to for support.

如果你在寻求帮助时， 伴侣是你想到的唯一依靠。

And so what happens is like,

所以可能发生的是，

the natural ebbs and flows that can happen in a marriage,

婚姻中顺其自然发生的起起伏伏，

they’re so much more impacted,

非常具有影响力，

and there's so much more devastated during those times of ebbs

在低谷时期会更糟糕，

because they don't have that support outside of the relationship.

因为他们缺乏来自婚姻以外的支持。

So I think sometimes we see, we think of like,

所以我觉得， 有时我们以为，生活像是，

"Oh, are my friends a threat to my spouse?

“我的朋友会成为我伴侣的威胁吗？

My spouse is spending time with their friends,

我的伴侣总和他的朋友待在一起，

they're not spending time with me."

却不和我一起玩。”

But if we understand more broadly the importance of friendship

但如果我们从更广的角度 了解友谊的重要性，

and how it makes every other relationship in our life better,

了解友谊如怎样为生活中的 其他关系带来更好的影响，

we will see that there's actually synergy between these relationships.

那么我们就会发现 这些关系之间具有协同作用。

That my spouse having friends outside of this relationship

我的伴侣在外有朋友，

is what makes them a better spouse for me.

正是他成为好伴侣的重要原因。

WPR: So, so much of it has to do with the way we just think

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯： 这很多时候取决于我们看待

about the role friendships play in our lives.

友谊在我们人生中所扮演角色的方式。

We have lots of questions that are coming in

我们有很多问题是关于

about, sort of, the steps to actually making friends.

如何在实际生活中交朋友的。

And I think before we get into some of those specific questions,

在我们探讨这些具体问题前，

I know you, in the talk, sort of shared --

我记得你在分享中提到——

you started with two tips,

你有两点建议，

this idea of first, assuming that people like you

一是假设别人喜欢自己，

and then overcoming what you call covert avoidance

二是克服所谓的隐性回避，

or that urge to sort of mentally check out when you're meeting someone new.

或者让自己在初识他人时整理好思绪。

What are some of the other ways that you recommend people try to use

你还有什么其他建议吗， 能让大家利用不同手段

tools that people use to build new friendships?

来建立新的友谊？

MF: So I can walk through my own experience of making a bunch of friends

玛丽莎：我可以谈谈 我自己交过好几个朋友的经历，

and share this in a story.

和大家分享一个故事。

I went to Mexico City alone and was there for 10 days

我孤身一人去墨西哥城待了10天，

and was like, OK, if I spend ten days here and don't make any friends,

那感觉像是， 如果在这10天里我交不到任何朋友，

I'm going to be very lonely.

那么我会非常寂寞。

So how did I make friends when I was there?

在那里我是怎样交到朋友的呢？

First I went to a coffee shop.

首先，我去咖啡厅。

I heard another American there and I knew, you know,

我听到有个美国人在讲话， 我就知道，

he's less likely to reject me than I think.

他会比我想象中更容易接纳我。

I also knew the research on transitioners, right?

我还了解过一些过客研究，

People that are in times of transition are most open to friendship.

处于过渡期的人对友情最包容。

So people that are traveling, people that have just moved to the city,

这些过客可能正在旅游， 刚搬进这座城市，

people that have just started school, people that have just retired, right?

刚上学，或刚退休，对不对？

Those are the people to try to connect with versus, you know,

我们希望和这些人建立联系，

someone who's been here for a while and already has an established network.

因为那些长期居住在这里的人 已经建立了自己的关系网。

So I knew this guy's a transitioner

我看着那人像过客，

and he's less likely to reject me than I think.

他拒绝我的可能性比我想象的要小很多。

So I'm going to engage with him.

所以我去找他聊天。

And I asked, you know, where are you from?

我问他，你来自哪个国家？

Like, I'm from the US too.

并说，我也来自美国。

We start chatting and I end up inviting him to a meetup that night,

我们开始聊天， 最后我邀请他晚上再见一面，

and it’s like a language exchange meetup.

那就像一场语言交换活动。

And at that language exchange meetup,

在这场语言交换活动上，

I meet someone else who's cool, and I say, you know,

我认识了其他很酷的人，我问，

“Do you want to come to this Lucha Libre wrestling match with me?”

“你想和我一起去看自由摔角比赛吗？”

Then he said, yes, and I think ...

他说，当然，我想……

You know what I realized, too, from the research on friendship,

你知道，我从友情方面的研究发现，

I used to think that making friends was about being interesting, being smart,

我本以为要想交朋友， 自己要变得有趣、聪明、

being insightful, being charismatic, being entertaining.

见解深刻、魅力非凡、 懂得逗别人开心。

But in fact, people report that this entertainment factor

但实际上，研究发现这些娱乐因素

is the least important quality they look for in a friend.

是我们在交朋友时， 别人觉得最不重要的品质。

And the most important quality that they look for

别人认为最重要的品质是

is someone who makes them feel like they matter.

一个人对朋友的重视程度。

So for me, if I want to connect with someone,

所以对我来说， 如果我想和别人交朋友，

it's not about me trying to impress them.

我不会想着如何惊艳他们，

It's about me trying to make them feel valued and, you know,

而是让他们有被重视的感觉，

say hello to them and engage with them and tell them what I like about them

例如和他们打招呼、聊天， 告诉他们我喜欢他们的地方，

and tell them what I appreciate about them, right?

以及我欣赏他们的地方，对不对？

There’s this study that looked at friendship,

有一项关于友情的研究，

budding friendship groups, for like 12 weeks,

用大概12周的时间 以小组方式培养友情，

which of these pairs ended up becoming friends.

最终小组成员都成为彼此的朋友。

And it was the ones that shared the most affirmation

他们是对彼此 有最多肯定和感情的人，对吧？

and affection towards each other, right?

And so, just to go even deeper into the research rabbit hole,

我们再仔细看看这项研究，

there’s a theory called “risk regulation theory,”

有一个理论叫作“风险监管理论”，

which indicates that we decide how much to invest in a relationship

表示我们对一段关系的投入程度，

based on our view of how likely we are to get rejected.

取决于我们怎样看待 自己被拒绝的可能性。

So when we show people "I like you," we're telling them,

所以当我们告诉别人“我喜欢你”， 我们相当于告诉他们，

"Hey, you're not going to get rejected if you try to be friends with me."

“如果你想和我成为朋友， 我不会拒绝你的。”

And that makes people really feel safe connecting with us, right?

这会让人觉得和我们交朋友 是有安全感的，对不对？

So I was both engaging with these people

因此我不但和这些人聊天，

and I was trying to make them feel loved

还会试图让他们感受到被爱，

and tell them how great I thought they were

让他们知道我觉得他们很棒，

and how happy I am to meet them as I reached out to them.

遇到他们、了解他们让我非常开心。

And then I went to my Spanish class,

接着，我去上西班牙语课，

which, if you don't have any friends,

如果你没有太多朋友，

what I recommend is that you join something that's repeated over time.

那我建议你参加一些周期性重复的活动。

And remember,

请记住，

I said repeated unplanned interaction and shared vulnerability

我提过的重复性无计划交流 及脆弱性共享

is that infrastructure that kids have for friends

是孩子们的交友基础，

that we lack as adults.

却是成年人所缺乏的。

So as adults, we really need to recreate that infrastructure.

因此作为成年人， 我们很需要重建这种基础。

And so if you join like, a social group that's repeated over time,

如果你加入一个常常举办活动的社群，

turn your hobby into a community, right,

把你的爱好注入到社群中，

that's a really important way to make friends.

那么这也是交朋友的重要方式。

So for me, it's I want to take the Spanish class

对我来说，我想要上西班牙语课

because I love learning languages.

是因为我喜欢学习不同的语言。

For you, it might be football team,

对你来说，你的选择可能是加入足球社、

improv team, hiking team, meditation group,

即兴表演社、徒步社，或者禅修社，

but it's just finding something,

只要找到你的爱好，

finding a group that meets around this hobby.

找到可以发展你爱好的社团就好。

Because when you find something that's repeated over time,

当你找到周期性重复的活动时，

what happens is something called the “mere exposure effect” sets in.

便会产生“单纯曝光效应”。

The mere exposure effect describes our tendency to unconsciously,

单纯曝光效应说的是 我们容易无意中，

completely unconsciously, like people just because they are familiar to us.

或完全无意识的情况下， 更加偏爱自己熟悉的人。

So, for example, this researcher found

例如，研究人员发现，

that when he planted women into a large psychology lecture,

他在期末时安排了 一些女性上心理学大课，

at the end of the semester,

none of the students remembered the woman,

没有学生记得这些女性，

but they reported liking the woman who showed up to the most classes,

但据报告，他们都更喜欢 常常在课上出现过的女性，

20 percent more than the woman that didn't show up for any, right?

对其喜爱程度比 没在课上出现过的女性多20%，对吧？

Nobody remembered her, but they liked her a lot

没有人记得她， 但大家都很喜欢她，

because they had seen her face, like this is our brain, right?

那是因为他们见过她， 她的脸会出现在脑海中，对吧？

And what I think the other implication of mere exposure effect is

我觉得单纯曝光效应 提供的另一点启示是，

in the beginning,

最初，

mere exposure hadn't set in.

这个单纯效应并没发生。

So it's going to be awkward, it's going to be weary.

整件事会变得奇怪，令人厌烦。

You're going to feel uncomfortable, right?

你会觉得不舒服，对不对？

Maybe a little distrusting.

也许还有点失望。

That's not a sign that you need to stop showing up.

那不代表你之后不用出现了。

That's a sign you need to keep showing up because when you continue to show up,

那代表你之后要不断出现， 因为只有你不断出现，

they're going to like you more, you're going to like them more, right?

他们才会更喜欢你， 你也会更喜欢他们，对不对？

So I joined that Spanish class, that was repeated over time.

因此我去上西班牙语课， 这门课是我在那段时间的例行事项。

Every day in Spanish class, I would ask people to go out to lunch with me.

每天的西班牙语课上， 我会邀请别人和我一起吃午饭。

We'd go out to lunch together,

我们一起吃午饭，

then we went to Lucha Libre together.

一起看自由摔角。

You know, of course, I was only there for 10 days,

当然，我只在那儿待了10天，

so I can only go so deep with folks.

所以我和当地人的交流 就只能到这一步。

But in general, when you join this event that's repeated over time,

但总的来说，如果你长期 参与一项重复性事务，

you want to start generating exclusivity with someone in that group.

你会希望和社群里的人 创造独一无二的回忆。

Exclusivity means you develop memories

独一无二意味着你的回忆

and you develop experiences with one person in the group

以及你和社群里其他人的共同经历

that you don't have with other people.

是和别人在一起时没有的。

So pick whoever in the group that you really liked and ask them,

所以选几个你真心喜欢的人， 问问他们，

"Oh, would you be open to like, getting coffee, getting tea

“你想在活动前后和我 喝杯咖啡或喝杯茶吗？”

like, before or after our next group?"

Like, "I love to hang out"

或者，“我想出去逛逛”，

and those are like, the budding stems of friendship.

这些邀请便是友谊的萌芽。

And luckily, if you're in this group, right,

幸运的是，如果你在社群里，

you don't have to put in as much effort,

你不用很努力，

you had your tea,

就能喝着茶，

and now you're going to just continue to see them over time,

继续和他们见面，

and you have the wheel start moving for friendship and connection.

开启一段友谊和联系。

WPR: So TED member Celia actually is curious about virtual friendships

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：TED会员 Celia想了解一下线上友谊的发展，

and sort of how all of this plays into it,

用这些方法如何发展线上的友谊，

especially to some of the points you were making earlier

尤其你之前提过一些疫情时期的建议。

about the pandemic.

You know, for people who have met on social media only

你知道，只在社交媒体上打过交道的网友

as opposed to in real life, they ask,

不同于现实的朋友，他们想了解，

"Is it possible to have a strong virtual friendship?

“深厚的线上友情可能存在吗？

How important is in-person connection or getting together in real life?"

面对面交流或 在现实生活中见面有多重要？”

MF: Yeah, so this is such a nuanced question in some ways, right?

玛丽莎：在一定程度上， 这是一个问题的两面，对不对？

Because it's such a "both/and."

因为答案是“两者都是”。

We know from the research

我们从研究中可以看出，

that in-person connections tend to be stronger than virtual connections, right?

面对面交流比线上交流更好，对吧？

But I think that that research,

但我认为在研究中，

it doesn't account for certain communities like people with disabilities,

没有考虑到特定群体， 例如残疾人士、

people with severe social anxiety,

严重社交焦虑症人士、

even older people that aren't as mobile, who tend to find connections online.

以及流动性较弱的老年人， 他们更倾向于在网上建立联系。

And even though, you know,

你知道，即便线上交流 不如面对面来得深入，

the online connections tend to not be as deep as in person,

they can get deep

他们依旧可以建立深厚的情谊，

if you're practicing the same skills

只要不断练习相同的技巧，

that you can practice in offline connection

练习那些线下交友的技巧，

to establish deeper relationships.

就能建立深厚的情谊。

So, for example, like, the research finds

例如，研究发现，

that if you're just passively scrolling on social media, doomscrolling,

如果你只是被动地刷社媒内容， 浏览负面消息，

it makes you more lonely

你会感到更加孤独，

and negatively impacts your mental health and well-being.

对你的身心健康造成负面影响。

But if you are engaging actively on social media,

但如果你在社交媒体上主动交流，

I'm posting,

例如我会发贴、

I'm commenting on something that you shared,

会评论他人分享的内容、

I'm saying congratulations to you,

会祝贺朋友，

that's actually linked to less loneliness

这实际上会减少孤独，

and is something that actually makes us feel more satisfied in our relationships.

同时让自己对双方关系感到更加满意。

So if we want to have deep virtual connections, it's certainly possible.

所以如果我们希望 建立深厚的线上情谊，那绝对是可能的。

But we have to bring those same principles that we use in offline connections

但我们需要采取和线下交流一样的原则

to create more intimacy,

来创造更多亲昵行为，

things like being vulnerable with someone,

例如向对方表露自己的软弱，

being generous with them

慷慨大方地对待对方，

or showing affection towards them.

或告诉对方你对他们的喜爱。

That also works online.

这些方法在线上同样奏效。

They feel like they like one another more.

他们也会觉得自己更喜欢你。

But when you're vulnerable with someone who's avoidantly attached,

但如果有逃避型依附的人 让你受到伤害时，

that doesn't necessarily happen.

请不要觉得那是必然的。

The avoidantly attached person doesn't like you more

逃避型依附者不喜欢你

because you're vulnerable,

是因为觉得你弱，

because they have their own wounds around vulnerability, right?

但他们本身也有 自己的伤口和脆弱，对不对？

They've learned that it's not good to be vulnerable,

他们知道脆弱不是一件好事，

"I shouldn't be vulnerable."

“我不该这么脆弱”。

Like, that's the implicit message that they have

潜意识会这么告诉他们，

that really inhibits their ability to connect.

所以抑制了他们交朋友的能力。

So the implications of this, I think,

这个现象带来的启发是，

is that if you're vulnerable and it doesn't go well

如果你处于弱势，进展不顺利，

and it wasn't from a place of fear,

且这不是源自恐惧时，

remember that it's not always your fault.

请记住这不是你的错。

That other people have their own issues that they're dealing with

其他人也有他们自己需要处理的问题，

which may lead them to respond to your vulnerability negatively.

这些问题可能会 让他们对你的弱势给予负面回应。

And that doesn't mean that you did anything wrong.

但那不代表你做错了事情。

I mean, I think if you continue to try to be vulnerable with this person

我的意思是，如果你继续向

who's shown you that they can't handle it,

一个连自己问题都无法处理的人示弱，

then I think you should try to pivot, right?

那么我觉得你应该试着转变方向，对吧？

But just because someone responded dismissively to your vulnerability,

有人对你的脆弱嗤之以鼻，

it might mean that they have their own issues to work out.

那可能是因为他们 连自己的问题都解决不好。

WPR: I think, in sort of thinking about how to make friendships work well

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：我觉得， 关于思考如何顺利交朋友，

or to be really good at this process of doing this, you know,

如何在这个过程中变得游刃有余，

there's a popular excerpt from your book

你书里有一篇 名为“大西洋”的节选广受欢迎，

that you shared in "The Atlantic"

where you talked about the concept of super friends.

书中你谈到了超级好友这个概念。

So what makes someone a super friend,

是什么让一个人成为超级好友，

and how can we all strive to be super friends?

我们如何通过努力成为超级好友？

MF: Yeah, secure friends, aka super friends.

玛丽莎：可靠的朋友，也叫超级好友。

These people are secure with themselves,

这些人本身就是可靠的人，

which means that they don't have to try to use other people

意味着他们不需要利用其他人

as a tool to fulfill their sense of self

作为手段以实现自尊，

or to help them escape threatening emotions or feelings.

或帮助他们逃避坏情绪或感受。

So they're able to really humanize other people fully.

因此他们能够对别人通情达理。

And the research on securely attached people find,

关于安全依附者的研究表明，

and again, these are the people

安全依附者和他人拥有良好的关系，

that have a history of healthy relationships,

but there’s also earned-secure,

但安全感也可以是挣来的，

which means you may not have had a history of healthy relationships,

这意味着即便你缺乏良好的关系，

but you've done the work on yourself to develop a sense of security, right?

但可以通过自身训练 来发展安全感，对吗？

Remember, this isn't --

请记住——

nobody's doomed by their attachment style.

没有人会因为 自己的情感依恋类型而注定失败。

But what qualities do we see in them?

我们在他们身上看到了什么品质呢？

They're more likely to initiate friendships.

他们发展友情时更加主动，

They're more likely to maintain friendships.

他们维持友情时更加主动，

They're less likely to dissolve friendships.

他们几乎不会使友情褪色。

They're more generous towards other people

他们待人慷慨大方，

because, again, they fully humanize other people.

因为他们总是通情达理。

Insecurely attached people,

非安全型依恋的人，

they sometimes perceive other people

他们有时会以己度人， 带着伤口看待别人，对吧？

through the lens of their own wounds, right?

So anxiously attached people, it's like,

所以对焦虑型依恋的人而言，

you need to prove to me that you value me and you love me

你需要向我证明 你对我的重视和爱护，

because I'm so afraid that you're going to abandon me,

因为我很担心你以后会抛下我，

and then I can try to control you and make you do things

所以我试着控制你，让你做一些

to show me that you really, really love me, right?

表示你真的很爱很爱我的事情，对吧？

And so they're not fully humanizing another person

所以他们并不能完全地做到通情达理，

because they're almost seeing that person as a tool

因为他们几乎把别人当作

to fulfill their sense of self.

满足自我意识的手段。

Avoidantly attached people,

回避型依恋的人，

they just think everybody's out to harm them

他们觉得所有人都会伤害他们，

and that everybody's untrustworthy.

所有人都不值得信赖。

So they almost see other people as threats,

因此他们把其他人都视为威胁，

so they don't fully humanize people for their beauty

不会因为他人带来的美好

and the resources that connecting with another person can bring you.

或资源而友善地看待他人。

But these securely attached people,

但这些安全型依恋的人，

they tend to assume other people like them.

他们倾向于默认他人对自己的喜爱。

I talked about something called pronoia, which is the opposite of paranoia.

我讲过自恋妄想症这个概念， 和疑神疑鬼的偏执狂正好相反。

It's the idea that, you know,

前者是指，

the universe is commiserating for your success and for your well-being

全世界都因你的成功与幸福而变得怜悯，

and that you can trust people.

你可以信任别人。

They're comfortable with vulnerability,

他们欣然接受弱点，

they're more empathic, they're comfortable sharing their needs,

更富同理心，不但乐于分享自身需求，

but also fulfilling the needs of other people.

而且乐于满足他人的需求。

They're more responsive to the needs of other people.

对于他人的需求有求必应。

When they engage in conflict,

当置身于冲突时，

it’s all about perspective-taking.

他们懂得换位思考。

They're not like, "You do this, otherwise I'm going to be pissed off."

他们不会说， “你不这样做的话，我超不爽。”

They're like, "These are my needs. What are your needs?

而会说， “这些是我的需求，你的呢？

Let's figure out a way to collaborate

我们一起想办法合作，

and figure out something that will work for both of us.

找一个合适彼此的方式。

So they tend to be quite healing friends.

因此他们会成为疗愈朋友的人。

They tend to be --

他们在友情中会——

I talked about avoidant being low effort, low reward.

回避型的人低付出，低回报。

Anxious is high effort, low reward.

焦虑型高付出，低回报。

Secure is high effort, high reward when it comes to friendship.

安全型高付出，高回报。

WPR: And then what about friendships

惠妮·彭宁顿·罗杰斯：如果在友情中，

where there's not necessarily a difference in values,

双方三观基本一致，

but maybe a distance,

但有一定距离，那会怎样？

whether that's a physical distance has been created

这个距离可能指双方所在地的距离，

or some sort of emotional distance

也可能是指情感上的距离，

because your life has changed in some way?

由于生活在一定程度上发生了改变 而产生的情感距离。

How do you suggest people go about maintaining

你对维持和发展这类关系有什么建议吗？

and nurturing those types of relationships?

MF: So there's research on long-distance friends

玛丽莎：关于远距离朋友的研究发现，

that finds that we are helped

当友情在我们眼里是柔韧、 而非脆弱的时候，情况会得到改善。

when we perceive our friendships as flexible, not fragile.

So when we perceive that,

因此我们对待友情，应该像

"Oh, I haven't talked to this person in a few months,

“我有好几个月没和这个人聊天了，

I'm going to assume that friendship is asleep, not that it's dead,

我想我们的友谊 只是原地不动，而非结束，

so that I can reconvene this friendship at any time."

我可以随时找这位朋友。”

Right?

对不对？

So it's being able to recognize that our friendships ebb and flow.

我们可以察觉出友谊的高潮与低谷。

And when we're at an ebb, that doesn't mean,

我们处于低谷并不代表

"OK, I'm never going to contact this person again,

“好吧，我以后都不会再联系这个人，

because the friendship is officially over."

因为我们的友谊到此结束。”

We assume that this ebb is part of the normal process to flow again.

我们认为这个低谷时期 只是正常波动周期中的一部分而已。

So that facilitates us being able to re-engage in the friendship

因此，这说明我们可以 让友情重新焕发活力，

at any time.

随时都可以。

So basically, this all goes back to, I really think, this tip, right?

基本上，这又回到了 我最初给大家的建议，对吗？

It's such an all encompassing tip, right?

多么全面的建议！

Because what I'm basically telling you is to assume people like you, right?

其实我要告诉大家的是， 请认为别人是喜欢你的。

Like, if you don't talk to your friend awhile,

例如，如果你有一阵子没和朋友聊天，

assume that they're still interested in being friends with you.

那么请假设他们仍然想要成为你的朋友。

Again, this isn't about, you know, being delusional.

再次强调，这不是自欺欺人。

If someone's clearly indicating

如果有人明确表示

that they're not interested in a friendship with you, then move on.

他们不喜欢跟你做朋友， 那我们分道扬镳。

But if it's ambiguous and you're like, "I'm not really sure,

但如果事实模棱两可， 你觉得“我不太肯定，

we haven't talked for a while, but they haven't necessarily rejected me

我们有一段时间没联系了， 但他们没有完全拒绝我，

or they still are responsive when I reach out to them,"

或者说，他们对我的问候 仍然保持回应，”

you want to make that your running assumption

那么你可以用这个假设来应对 含糊不清的事实，

in response to ambiguity,

because again,

因为，

having that assumption really facilitates continued connection.

这个假设真的可以促进未来的联系。

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